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What Is Spiritualism

Is belief in life after death as a spirit the same as spiritualism?

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 ---jerry6593 on 9/12/10
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Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

So when someone dies sinner or saint, he has no more brain function: No thoughts, no memory, no love.

His soul ceases to exist.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his NOSTRILS the BREATH OF LIFE, and man became a LIVING SOUL.

BREATH OF LIFE IN THE BODY/ NOPSTRIL OF A PERSON MAKES HIM A LIVING SOUL.

i HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A deaD soul

SPIRITUALISM believes that these people are alive in spirit
---francis on 10/25/10


These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, 'that you have eternal life" He is speaking to believers in Jesus Christ BY FAITH
---MarkV. on 10/25/10

Your post like LEEJ suggest that we do NOT HAVE IMMORTALITY/ ETERNAL LIFE YET.
we do accept BY FAITH that we shall have it.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things HOPEDfor, the evidence of things NOT SEEN.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
---francis on 10/25/10


jerry //It describes you perfectly, as YOU are the one who claims to be exempt from the LAW.


Christians are free in Christ, not subject to Jewish law as they are under the Law of Christ.

1 Cor. 9:20-21 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews, to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law, To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Sorry Jerry boy but it is all about Jesus, not about observing selected OT laws not found within the New Covenant.

When will you ever get any understanding of the Gospel?
---leej on 10/25/10


Lee: "Jerry - //Much words - little answer.

That is the problem with those who possess a natural or carnal mind. Spiritual things are far too much for them to comprehend. 1 Cor. 2:14, Romans 8:7

More words - self-conflicting answers!

Love this scripture:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW of God, neither indeed can be.

It describes you perfectly, as YOU are the one who claims to be exempt from the LAW.
---jerry6593 on 10/25/10


Francis, while 1 John 5:13 is speaking of our spirit, because we are born again of the Spirit, our spirit becomes immortal."These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, 'that you have eternal life" He is speaking to believers in Jesus Christ by faith.
1 Cor. 15:53, is speaking of our flesh which has not been redeemed yet, in which some are already in the grave and is corruptable, and it will be risen and glorified at the Second Coming.
---MarkV. on 10/25/10




francis //" Will put on," is an indication that we do not presently have eternal life immortality and that it is a future event.

Wrong again as usual since there are too many scriptures that states we have eternal life as a present possession, not as a future possession alone.

While we have eternal life our resurrected and glorified bodies will have immortality.

You would not have to ask all these questions if you have gone to a Bible teaching church rather than some church that is contentious with other Christians.


---leej on 10/24/10


Francis, Jerry - concerning those that have died without Christ.

Is there such a place as hell?

If there is then who is or who will be there?

If there is not a hell, then does the belief simply supersitition?

Remember your belief is that upon death one temporary ceases to exist and when Christ comes again, it will be much like adding water and stir, ala, you then have the resurrected bodies. No spooks in the spirit world!
---leej on 10/24/10


Francis //What do I mean bywill put on?

---leej on 10/24/10

All your former statements indicats that we have eternal life / immortality NOW

1 John 5:13 speaks of eternal life as a PRESENT POSSESSION.

---leej on 10/21/10

eternal life is granted as a present possession to believers in Christ, are they not then given immortality? 1 John 5:13

---leej on 10/21/10

" Will put on," is an indication that we do not presently have eternal life immortality and that it is a future event.
---francis on 10/24/10


Francis //What do I mean bywill put on?

1 Cor. 15:53 (AV) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Perhaps the New Living Bible is more plain in its wording

For our perishable earthly bodies must be transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die.

Since the resurrected body is for the believer in the future, his earthly body will put on or be transformed, or be clothed (Weymouth) in a body that is immortal.

I can understand your confusion but that happens when you do not rightfully interpret the word of God.
---leej on 10/24/10


Jerry - //Much words - little answer.

That is the problem with those who possess a natural or carnal mind. Spiritual things are far too much for them to comprehend. 1 Cor. 2:14, Romans 8:7

In John 14:3 Jesus is speaking of the last days when he will at length comes to assemble His followers. And if we consider the whole body of Christ, He is presently preparing a place for us, whence it follows that the proper time for our entrance into heaven is not yet to come.
---leej on 10/24/10




Everlasting life is a present not just a future possession.
---leej on 9/19/10

1 John 5:13 speaks of eternal life as a PRESENT POSSESSION.

---leej on 10/21/10

eternal life is granted as a present possession to believers in Christ, are they not then given immortality? 1 John 5:13

---leej on 10/21/10

The question I would ask is if eternal life is a present possession (1 John 5:13), then can we not simply surmise that immortality is ours effectively?
---leej on 10/22/10

I have no problem with 1 Tim. 6:16 that only God in immortal. But I believe that only the believer will put on immortality and live eternally.

---leej on 10/23/10

what do you mean by " WILL PUT ON?"
---francis on 10/24/10


Lee: Much words - little answer. Sounds like you agree that man is not naturally immortal, and hence does not remain alive as a spook during death.

Care to answer another question?

If we go to be with Christ at death, then why does He say that we are NOT with Him, and He must return for us (John 14:3)?
---jerry6593 on 10/24/10


jerry - your miserable failure seems to lie in the fact that you do not read my post.

I have no problem with 1 Tim. 6:16 that only God in immortal. But I believe that only the believer will put on immortality and live eternally.

There are theologians that believe as I do that the immaterial entity in the unbeliever will be eventually destroyed. Martin Luther, John RW Stott, RC Sproul(?), and others.

Where we do differ is in Christ's parable of the rich man and the beggar as reflecting real events. Yes, Jerry there is a hell awaiting the apostate and cultist.
---leej on 10/23/10


jerry //Thanks for trying to answer one of the three questions, albeit a miserable failure.

That is often the position held by those who follow not the Bible as taught by the saints of His church but instead a cult leader such as Ellen White, who only had a 4th grade education, had a head injury as a child, and booted out of a church that preached the gospel.

Poor boy Jerry, when will you ever come into the knowledge of His truth? Probably after you join a church that preaches the Bible.
---leej on 10/23/10


Lee: Thanks for trying to answer one of the three questions, albeit a miserable failure. You are still left with the Bible contradicting the concept of present immortality in 1Tim 6:16. What do you do with that? Just ignore it?

Perhaps you can do better on the other two questions. Care to try?
---jerry6593 on 10/23/10


francis -//I have never met any one of any denomination who belives that this is eternal life right now.

If this was eternal life, no christian would ever die.

----
If you had attended a Bible believing church you would have heard that eternal life is a present possession as clearly stated in 1 John 5:13

also -

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Christians never die?

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Francis WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE JESUS AT HIS WORD?
---leej on 10/22/10


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Eternal life is defined in the book of John as knowing God and Him whom He has sent. So, if eternal life is some other time and some other place, we cannot even remotely know the Father or the Son in any capacity, even Savior or Redeemer, right now and there is no security or assurance since both of those qualities are found in Him. The only way we can KNOW we have eternal life is if we KNOW Him. Hope deferred makes the heaert sick.
---Linda on 10/22/10


1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

I have never met any one of any denomination who belives that this is eternal life right now.

If this was eternal life, no christian would ever die.

This is the promise of eternal life which is given by jesus which we accept BY FAITH.
---francis on 10/22/10


Not quite so. For spiritualism emphasizes the spiritual aspect of things while denying the reality of the proven physical aspect: for example, a human being is made up of not only a spirit, but also evident and substantial blood and water, and therefore spiritualism is falsehood.
---Eloy on 10/22/10


It's as different as heaven is to hell, my friend. You are talking of evil here. Witchcraft: Is satanic. There are many forms of witchcraft, of which we must guard against, my friend. Stay in prayer, and ask God to help you.....I also believe a lot of problems in people's minds is nothing more than a form of witchcraft....Unbelievers are helpless in this. God's people, must guard.
---catherine on 10/22/10


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jerry -//Also, if we are inherently immortal, why does the Bible specifically say that we are NOT (1Tim 6:16)?

Your problem seems to lie in the fact that Christians really do not believe in many of the things you say they do. But slander seems to be the thing your denomination teaches you to do when it comes to those who have a deeper understanding of God's word.

My position on immortality is much the same as I stated from the Holman Bible Dictionary. Suggest you read it again.

The question I would ask is if eternal life is a present possession (1 John 5:13), then can we not simply surmise that immortality is ours effectively?
---leej on 10/22/10


No christian alive today believes that he or she has immortality. The bible places immortality at the time when Jesus returns.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

and spiritualism is the belief that people who die remain alive in spirit and can be conmtacted.
---francis on 10/22/10


Again I say that if the members of the spook belief cult had any intellectual honesty, they would answer these questions rather than wandering off on nonsense tangents:

If the "spirit" of man is inherently immortal so as to survive the death of the body, then why the necessity to "put on immortality" at the second coming (1Cor 15:52-55)?

Also, if we are inherently immortal, why does the Bible specifically say that we are NOT (1Tim 6:16)?

If we go to be with Christ at death, then why does He say that we are NOT with Him, and He must return for us (John 14:3)?

C'mon Lee, give it your best shot.
---jerry6593 on 10/22/10


Jerry honks the dead know nothing and supplies scripture that pertains to the physical body being dead.

if the dead know nothing (are sleeping) than why do we read in Rev. 6:9-10 that those slain were crying out in a loud voice?
-
Rev. 6:9-10 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

if eternal life is granted as a present possession to believers in Christ, are they not then given immortality? 1 John 5:13

Beliefs of cults often leave one like francis badly confused.
---leej on 10/21/10


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francis - yes, you are again confused and that probably because of your lack of knowledge. (Do you have a high school education or just a grade school equivalent?)

[altar or alter? Do not confuse the spelling of altar and alter, which sound similar.

Altar is a noun referring to a ceremonial structure where religious ceremonies take place, and alter is a verb meaning "change," as in I had to alter the wording of the document.]= Encarta World dictionary

One thing I would like to have you answer.

1 John 5:13 speaks of eternal life as a PRESENT POSSESSION. Do those who have been granted eternal life also have immortality? Or is immortality someone granted only after the final judgement?
---leej on 10/21/10


LOL you comment is sad and laughable

you mean these soul get to heaven and must remain UNDER AND ALTAR?
WHy not in abrahams bosoom or paradise?
WHy under and ALTER?

By the way which ALTER is iT?
---francis on 10/21/10


Now here is the kicker Show me ONE BIBLE verse that says people live on as spirits WITH OR WITHOUT Christ after death?

Rev. 6:9-10 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

It is apparent that the dead may have consciousness for those that were martyred cried out.
---leej on 10/21/10


As for immortality, I concur with you as the Scripture does say only God has immortality.

But immortality simply means one may be able to live eternally - such will be the resurrected body.

Encarta World English Dictionary. - immortal adj never dying: able to have eternal life or existence

The kicker is whether death or anything else can separates us from Christ.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God is the god of the Living, not of the sleepy heads.
---leej on 10/21/10


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1 of 2 to francis & jerry

Perhaps the following from the Holman Bible Dictionary will help in your understanding.

Immortality - quality of state of being exempt from death. In the true sense of the word, only God is immortal (1 Tim. 6:16), for only God is living in the true sense of the word.

Humans may be considered immortal only insofar as immortality is the gift of God.

Paul points us in this direction in Rom. 2:7, To those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
---leej on 10/21/10


part 2 of 2 on immortality.

Paul also explained that the perishable nature of human life will put on the imperishable and that the mortal nature of human life will put on immortality. When that happens, the saying concerning victory over death will have been fulfilled (1 Cor. 15:53-55,).

As it is humans in their earthly life are mortal they are subject to death. Thus eternal life is not ours because we have the inherent power to live forever, eternal life and immortality are ours only because God chooses to give them to us.
---leej on 10/21/10


francis, jerry//With christ, or without christ, spiritualism is the belief that people live on as spirits after death.
=================
The definitions I used for spiritualism is was directly from Webster's Dictionary. What you have is a total distortion to fit your unbiblical beliefs.

spiritualism -
1. belief in communication with dead people: the belief that the spirits of dead people can communicate with the living, especially through mediums
2. practices of communicating with dead people: the practices used among people who believe that communication occurs between the dead and the living

Encarta World English Dictionary

The key word is 'communicating'.
---leej on 10/21/10


francis: Excellent questions! Here's more:

If the "spirit" of man is inherently immortal so as to survive the death of the body, then why the necessity to "put on immortality" at the second coming (1Cor 15:52-55)?

Also, if we are inherently immortal, why does the Bible specifically say that we are NOT (1Tim 6:16)?

If we go to be with Christ at death, then why does He say that we are NOT with Him, and He must return for us (John 14:3)?

If the spook believers had any intellectual honesty, they would answer questions like these. But they never will!
---jerry6593 on 10/21/10


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LEEJ I am not at all suprised that you just do not get it.

With christ, or without christ, spiritualism is the belief that people live on as spirits after death.

Now here is the kicker SHow me ONE BIBLE verse that says people live on as spirits WITH OR WITHOUT christ after death?

LEEJ the dead are truely DEAD
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalms 6:5 For in death [there is] no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?


bigger question: If they DEAD were with christ, why did the apostles raise some from the dead?
---francis on 10/20/10


frances -//Is belief in life after death as a spirit the same as spiritualism? (Jerry)


Spiritualism involved an activity of attempting to communicate with those that have died.

The dead in Christ exist as spirits but do not communicate with those of the living.

So that is where the difference is at.
---leej on 10/20/10


LEEJ how is your answer any different that what jerry or I am saying?
---francis on 10/20/10


Spiritualism is that activity by which a person seeks and communicates with the spirits of those who have died.

Those who have died in Christ are with the Lord but do not communicate with those still living.

There is nothing in the Bible (New Testament) that speaks of soul sleep.

Sleep is often used as an euphemism for those who have died.

Euphemism -

1. less offensive synonym: a word or phrase used in place of a term that might be considered too direct, harsh, unpleasant, or offensive
2. use of inoffensive words: the use of a word or phrase that is more neutral, vague, or indirect to replace a direct, harsh, unpleasant, or offensive term
---leej on 10/20/10


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OK PEOPLE HELP ME OUT HERE

Is the blog question by Jerry and LEJ answer is sinc?
In other words is LEEJ answering YES to the blog question by his definition?

Is belief in life after death as a spirit the same as spiritualism?
jerry6593 on 9/12/10


1. belief in communication with dead people: the belief that the spirits of dead people can communicate with the living, especially through mediums

2. practices of communicating with dead people: the practices used among people who believe that communication occurs between the dead and the living.

---leej on 10/18/10
---francis on 10/20/10


Poor soul francis, we can see that he is often and easily confused, usually the case with those others view as a cult.

Maybe you would be better off if he went to a church that teaches the Bible, not some distortion thereof.

And yes, he should read the Bible. I have been a serious study of the Bible for the past 50 years and have read it from cover to cover in several different versions.

And all that is because I found the Truth in my life and accepted Him as Lord and Savior of my life. It has since been a very beautiful and rewarding experience especially in seeing others come to faith in Christ.

But should I boast? - Therefore, as it is written, Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord. 1 Cor. 1:31
---leej on 10/19/10


Poor soul francis, we can see that he is often and easily confused, usually the case with those others view as a cult.

Maybe he would be better off if he went to a church that teaches the Bible, not some distortion thereof.

And yes, he should read the Bible. I have been a serious study of the Bible for the past 50 years and have read it from cover to cover in several different versions.

And all that is because I found the Truth in my life and accepted Him as Lord and Savior of my life. It has since been a very beautiful and rewarding experience especially in seeing others come to faith in Christ.

But should I boast? - Therefore, as it is written, Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord. 1 Cor. 1:31
---leej on 10/19/10


LETS REVIEW:

The blog questionis: Is belief in life after death as a spirit the same as spiritualism?

Francis answer is:
That is exactly what spiritualism is.
Because people believe that the dead live n as spirits they attempt to communicate with them

LEEJ'S Responce is:
1. belief in communication with dead people: the belief that the spirits of dead people can communicate with the living, especially through mediums (and was not Ellen White sort of a medium?)

LEEJ you have issues,
You don't even know whan someone is saying the same things as you, or dofferent than you. I think you just try to oppose me just because

lets test that:
Jesus was a jew. what do you think?
---francis on 10/19/10


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But only in the definition provided by those who are in your denomination. The rest of us use the dictionary definition.

--leej on 10/18/10
Do you ever read the bible?

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
---francis on 10/19/10


francis //Is belief in life after death as a spirit the same as spiritualism?

That is exactly what spiritualism is
---

But only in the definition provided by those who are in your denomination. The rest of us use the dictionary definition.

spiritualism [sprrichoo & #601, lzz & #601,m]
n
1. belief in communication with dead people: the belief that the spirits of dead people can communicate with the living, especially through mediums (and was not Ellen White sort of a medium?)

2. practices of communicating with dead people: the practices used among people who believe that communication occurs between the dead and the living.

I am beginning to wonder if you are ever correct?
---leej on 10/18/10


What is this rich man doing THINKING:
Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

BOTH had memory:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Wy does he still love his brothers:
Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
---FRANCIS on 10/18/10


Is belief in life after death as a spirit the same as spiritualism?

That is exactly what spiritualism is
---francis on 10/18/10


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//My question to Lee was then "whose voice are you following?"

John 10:2-5,7 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.So Jesus again said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
---leej on 10/18/10


Moderator: No. I seldom have the time to post multiple entries per day, and I have not on this blog. I have been trying to answer the assertion by MarkV that I had unfairly accused Lee.

Lee had written:

"Poor Jerry, when will he ignore Ellen White and believe the truth of Scripture?"

I had copied this slur back to Lee with three words having been changed to reflect the REAL truth of scripture as found in Genesis.

God had said:

Gen 2:17 ... in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

But Satan countered:

Gen 3:4 ... Ye shall not surely die:

My question to Lee was then "whose voice are you following?"
---jerry6593 on 10/18/10


Elder //He was teaching just what the facts show. That is, at the death of the body the spirit lives on somewhere.

Very good comments on Luke 16:19 the rich man and the beggar after death.

One problem as I see it is that the SDA doctrine of Investigative Judgment depends heavily upon soul sleep.

To them one dies and is in an unconscious state until the resurrection. Traditional Christianity holds that only the body is resurrected, while the immaterial part goes back to God where it awaits to be united with the resurrected body.

I am sure that there are many SDA who questioned their teachings on this subject, but sometimes it is hard for the truth to break through cultic teachings.
---leej on 10/17/10


"While this is a parable....,"
leej
You reveal truth.
The account in Luke 16 does not meet the other parable formats. Never did Jesus use a proper name in any (other) Parable. Here He does. He stated, "There was a certain rich man... There was a certian begger named Lazarus..." These are statements of fact. By using "there was" indicated that there was these people. If there wasn't then He would have been teaching a falshood.
A parable is a story with spiritual facts/lessons to be understood and/or learned. Even if this was just a parable what was Jesus trying to teach?
He was teaching just what the facts show. That is, at the death of the body the spirit lives on somewhere.
---Elder on 10/17/10


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Moderator ... Sometimes we see several posts from one blogger in a row. How does that happen ... are there favourites who are allowed that
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/17/10


Jerry, my guess is that you are posting more than one response in a row in this blog which the computer stops so that one person can't take over a blog?
---Moderator on 10/17/10


Make that my last nine out of 10.
---jerry6593 on 10/17/10


MarkV - yes I would agree. When they run out of proof texts they start to condemn those who know the scripture.

What I also notice is that all too often they misquote or quote out of context something they think supports their viewpoint.

We can only support the moderators when they get too far out of place and violate the terms of this forum.

Back to the topic. A text often used to justify spiritualism is Hebrews 1:14 Are they (angels) not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

I once had a office mate that believed one could communicate with those guardian angels but offered no proof they were not demonic spirits.
---leej on 10/15/10


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Leej, that is what I have found out. Many here will discuss things with you for a while, until one day, they cannot provide Scripture to what they believe so they resort to condemning, bringing in satan to a godly discussion, all because they are not prepared with the Word of God. And they have the nerve to tell you to study. Later they will come out again on another blog and show their support to those who don't agree with you, even when you are speaking for God.
---MarkV. on 10/15/10


// Why have my last eight responses to this blog not been posted?

You should not call Christians who love and follow the Lord as being of Satan.
---leej on 10/15/10


Moderator: Why have my last eight responses to this blog not been posted?
---jerry6593 on 10/15/10


Jerry, you like Eloy, maybe a little less, lose your witness of God when you say such things as you do to others like what you said to Leej,
"Poor Lee, when will he ignore Satan and believe the truth of Scripture?"
You know Jerry, you might think you are making points by throwing satan at someone, but you introduce him in a godly discussion about doctrines. Everything you said about God went out the window when you brought satan into the picture. In your mind, you somehow do not know what to answer with, and the light goes on and you remember satan. I'm sure you are a nice guy, but you don't need satan in your life to defend you. Let the Word of God defend you.
---MarkV. on 10/5/10


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Jerry - I obey what Jesus told us when it comes to corrupted doctrine.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Jude 3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints.

And it is very clear for those who have eyes to see that the SDA is NOT NOT of 'the faith once and for all delivered to the saints'. They preach another Jesus and a different gospel..

What judgment would be upon me if I remained silent while the salvation of many is at stake?

Please find a church that preaches the gospel as delivered once and for all to the saints.
---leej on 10/3/10


leej, lee, MaryG, etc: "One major problem with Adventists is that they judge others by the law."

Do you realize that you are JUDGING Adventists? And that not from scripture, but drom your own pagan Catholic perspective. Don't you think that the following scripture applies to you as well as to me?

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

How just would God be to judge us by caprice rather than using one standard (law) for all?

Poor Lee, when will he ignore Satan and believe the truth of Scripture?
---jerry6593 on 10/3/10


There are two resurrections.

The first as the last trumpet is blown, Jesus returns and the dead in Christ shall rise first and the living shall be caught up with the dead.

The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand year period when all the other dead from all of earth's history are raised and judged from the Book of Life according to their works.

Blessed are they that rise at the first resurrection for they shall not see the second death.
---Steveng on 9/29/10


NO! You are speaking of witch-craft. [mediums]
---catherine on 9/29/10


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Jerry, just to make myself clear here. I do love you. I do not mind answering with what I know to be true from Scripture. But it seems when you do not like someone going against your doctrine, you begin to make sarcastic remarks about the person answering you. I see that on all the blogs where you answer. I am oppose to many that you answer to, but when you say stuff not pertaining to the gospel your witness goes out the door. I know you care for what you believe but so do the others answering you. You are better then that I hope. I know sometimes you get tired of hearing opposition, but that is what this blogs are for, to oppose doctrines we know are not true or to discuss things we might not know about.
---MarkV. on 9/29/10


Matthew 7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

One major problem with Adventists is that they judge others by the law. Thus we can only conclude that they themselves will be judged by the law if we can believe Matthew 7:2.

And being judged by the law they will be found to be lacking. The Christians being an inheritor from Abraham thru Isaac has been declared righteous by his faith, not by obedience to the law or obedience to the 10 commandments declared in 2 Cor. 3:7,9 as the ministry of death & condemnation.

Poor Jerry, when will he ignore Ellen White and believe the truth of Scripture?
---leej on 9/27/10


Jerry, I was talking about most of Scripture that you do not understand, but not because you are dumb, but because you have a bias for your denomination, and that blinds you from the Truth. And your attitude changes and you go on about other stuff that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Your reading too much stuff from Ellen White and getting her perspective instead of reading the Bible and getting the revealed Word from Scripture. You skip the meaning in Scripture and put her meanings or your denominations meanings. That's why you argue for Saturday. You go so far as saying God said it, when in reality He never did.
---MarkV. on 9/27/10


jerry//You must be reading from one of your predestination, pagan spiritualism books.

You should realize that Ellen White was basically a spiritualist herself as she had visions, many of which were changed after they were examined. And she often spoke of her guiding angel - something that properly fits into those who have been spiritualists.

As to the dead being unconscious, we really cannot be convinced as Christ spoke of one being in hell having a dialogue with Abraham. Lk. 16

And of course, God is the god of the living, not the dead.

---leej on 9/26/10


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MarkV: "Jerry, you have a lot of trouble reading the Truth from Scripture."

I don't know what scripture you're talking about. My KJV Bible defines the state of the dead as an unconscious sleep. It also definitively states that we are NOT inherently immortal, but "put on" immortality at the resurrection at the second coming of Christ. You must be reading from one of your predestination, pagan spiritualism books.
---jerry6593 on 9/25/10


Jerry, you have a lot of trouble reading the Truth from Scripture. You want them to say something in your favor, but cannot find the passages. While on the other hand many passages are given to you. The one on John 11:25,26 is pretty clear. "He who believes in Me, though he may die, (physical death) he shall live. And whowever lives and believes in Me shall never die" It's clear He is not talking about the physical body, since we all know it dies. The persons spirit will never die of those who are in Christ, who believe in His works and the resurrection. There is no second death for those who are in Christ.
---MarkV. on 9/24/10


Lee: (Why the name change?) "Jerry - you ignore John 11: 26"

Not at all! You ignore John 11:25 which sets the context. Jesus is talking about those who are ALREADY RESURRECTED as "living forever."

You, on the other hand, ignore the myriad of scriptures which describe death as an unconscious state of sleep while awaiting the resurrection and the judgement "at the last day".
---jerry6593 on 9/24/10


Jerry - you ignore

John 11: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Physically death does not end our existence, but only that of the body.

In the story of the rich man and the beggar, both went to their deserved place after they died. Luke 16

While this is a parable, Christ always used parables based on true events, in orther words Jesus was not an Aesop story teller using fictional stories to prove a point.

If you believe that one does not go to heaven or hell upon death, then you have to place this parable in a class all by itself as all other parables are based on what can be viewed as true events.
---leej on 9/21/10


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Lee: "All Bible believing Christians hold that there is life after death."

True! All Bible-believing Christians believe that there is life AFTER THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD AT THE LORD'S COMING ON THE LAST DAY! Just ask Jesus and Martha:

Joh 11:23,24 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up AT THE LAST DAY. [NOT the day he dies!]
---jerry6593 on 9/21/10


All Bible believing Christians hold that there is life after death.

Mr 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

John 11: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Everlasting life is a present not just a future possession.

5: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.

Poor Adventists will not know if they have eternal life until they are judged by God and Ellen White.
---leej on 9/19/10


Bill: I think you accurately describe most people's beliefs, but not the Bible's teaching on the state of the dead. The only distinction that you have made between spiritualism/spiritism and the state of man as a non-corporeal living entity after death is whether or not they communicate with the living. They are still spirit beings, but with a limited travel budget. Not a big distinction in my book!
---jerry6593 on 9/18/10


People involved in spiritualism claim that a person continues as a spirit after one dies. Other people hold to this basic belief but don't all do the same thing with it. For example, Roman Catholics may believe a saint can die and then make contact with them, and saints after death are trusted to make intercession for people and have other powers. But Roman Catholicism in many ways is not the same as spiritualism. Certain Bible believers understand that people are spiritual after they die but they do not come back, and they believe that in spiritualism the medium is not making contact with a dead person, but an evil spirit is pretending to be that friend or relative. Or ones are just faking the whole thing.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/14/10


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Ignatious: Show me from the Bible. Oral tradition is a poor substitute for a good old "thus saith the Lord".
---jerry6593 on 9/13/10


No.

The doctrine of the afterlife is part of Jewish Oral (Holy) Tradition (confirm by Jesus Christ) and was indeed part of the Apostolic Tradition.

Spiritualism is a religion which includes the belief that the souls of the dead can be communicated with "mediums", who can provide information about the afterlife. Spiritualism reject the effects of the death of Jesus Christ, among other things.

Such a belief and practice are condemned by Holy Tradition, despite the affirmation of the afterlife.

So, again, no, the two are not the same.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/12/10


"Is belief in life after death as a spirit the same as spiritualism?"
In that particular aspect, yes.

The third principle of "Spiritism" is Continuous Existence.

"The belief or doctrine that the spirits of the dead, surviving after the mortal life, can and do communicate with the living, esp. through a person (a medium) particularly susceptible to their influence." Defines spiritualism.
---josef on 9/12/10


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