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Is Jesus God Or A Son

I believe Jesus is the Son of God but I can't see how He is God if He is seated at God's right hand and if Jesus doesn't know when the Judgement Day is then I don't see how they can be the exact same being.

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 ---JoelTA on 9/13/10
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Carla, God is Omnipresent Spirit, and when Jesus prayed, he prayed not to himself but to the Spirit in him, just as when we Christians also pray we are not praying to ourselves but to God who dwells in us. You must understand the incarnation and the trinity in order to understand God in the flesh. The trinity is an antinomy: Jesus is called both, the Son and the Father, the Shepherd and the Lamb, God and man, the Son of David and the Lord of David, the Master and the Servant, the Creator and the created. God is all in all. Yhwh is Yeshuah: Jesus is God. Know you all that Jesus, he God, none else. Papa Yahwah, Yeshuah Meshiach, and Ruwach Shiloh is one God, not three gods.
---Eloy on 9/24/10


Jesus says that he is the good shepherd.And that his sheep knows his voice. He explaines that in st. John 10.
Please read the whole chapter so that you can fully understand that Jesus is God and the Holy spirit comes from Jesus.
St. John 10:30 I and the Father are One.

He didn't say 3, trinity or treiseis. In the chapter Jesus said the sheep knows the shephard voice, and they wont follow another. Many of you do not belong to the shepard that is Jesus.
---batieste on 9/23/10


I am understanding that he associates his son himself and Holy Ghost as one, I am perhaps not understanding how YAHWEH Speaks in Heaven while he is being baptised by a man who looks into his face on the earth, who's shoes he cannot tie yet he can touch YAHWEH and baptise him and live???? .

Yet no man can look at YAHWEH (GOD) the Father) The I AM and live?

So either I have it right or you have it wrong?

The God YAHWEH who Christ sits in the garden of Gethsemane and prays to?
---Carla on 9/23/10


Studying scriptures is not easy! We have to look to the original instead of a translation

The numbers below appply to the Strong's Hebrew & Greek dictionary)
Gen 1:1 In the beginning GodH430 created the heaven and the earth.
The Hebrew word for God is given in Plural!
(H430


el-o-heem'
Plural of H433, gods in the ordinary sense, but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God, occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates, and sometimes as a superlative:
---Vasilis on 9/23/10


Carla, The word "trinity" is indeed in the Bible, it is the greek word "treiseis", and it is found in I John 5:7,8. lit.Gk: "Because three being who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and his Holy Ghost, and these the three in being: also three being who bear witness upon the earth, his Spirit, and his water, and his blood, and the triune (ie.Gk: treiseis) his in being." Jesus gave us his Commandment to baptize souls in the trinity. And Jesus came and spoke to them saying: "Go you all therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
---Eloy on 9/23/10




//Carla, you post the false doctrine of polytheism which is three god//

I believe what the word says' the minute you add The Trinity , Trine, and claim YAHWEH is Jesus Christ, and not that Christ is indeed a God as God is God, then alarm bells begin to ring.They both equate to the same calling/purpose but are not the same Spiritual being. Or God has to explain the other being that was in the heavens speaking for him while he was on the earth being baptised as man.

You are preaching two seperate teachings and claiming only one exists???
---Carla on 9/23/10


God did not FULLY reveal Himself to humanity until Jesus was glorified (the crucifixion). Before that, only the creator (Father) was known/worshipped (even though Jesus's "works" were already finished).

Hebrews 4:3 (Israelites never had "REST" in Jesus) "although his works were finished from the foundation of the world".

John 7:39 "for as yet the Spirit had not been given (to us).

At the cross, God revealed Himself COMPLETELY to humanity (JESUS is the COMPLETION of God). Jesus is what some/many call THE TRINITY...

Colossians 2:9
"For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily".

Jesus is GOD IN ENTIRETY.
---more_excellent_way on 9/22/10


Matthew 22:41-46 Mark 12:35-37 & Luke 20:41-44 the Lord Jesus Christ asks the question: What think ye of Christ, whose son is He? His answer. Christ as God, He is Lord, Christ as man, He is the Son of David. In otherwords, He is fully man, the ancester of King David, but also, He is fully God, God the Son, and Lord. In Luke 1:35 announces to Mary, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, and so the Holy One being born will be called God's Son." In John 1:14 we see this "Holy One, God's Son" as the only-begotten, which means no other son but this one, who is very God, sent by his father, God, for the purpose of making redemption possible for lost humanity.
---Dale on 9/22/10


Carla, you post the false doctrine of polytheism which is three gods, which is a common false teaching among false religions, rather than the truth of monotheism which is One God. "Hear, O' Israel: Yhwh our God, Yhwh one." Dt.6:4. Jesus is God. period. God himself became flesh and dwelt among us, Emmanuel, "God with us": Not A god with us, but THE God with us.
---Eloy on 9/22/10


"The trinity" is "The Triune God". God the Father bore man the Son whom bore the Holy Spirit. This belief is essential because: if you deny Jesus is God, then you deny his Almighty Godhood: and if you deny that God became a human Son, then you deny a Redeemer who relates to humans: and if you deny that God is the Holy Ghost, then you deny his Omnipresence and that he is holy. There are many verses professing that this gospel is salvation: "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost: therefore also that holy thing which will be born of you will be called the Son from God. For to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord." Mt.1:20+ Lk.1:35+ 2:11.
---Eloy on 9/22/10




Carla, Here's the problem with those people: They do not believe, apparently, the GOD is truly of Three Persons. The word "GOD" refers to a Holy, Divine Family UNIT. GOD consists of God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God the Son. Each Person is God in and of Themselves within the whole structure of the GOD-Head. If one is not used to seeing GOD this way, it's liable to seem heretical or even seem like gnosticism. But, it is how GOD actually is. Though one Scripture Verse that puzzles me is how, in ISAIAH 9:6, YAHUSHUA is prophecied and referred to as "the Everlasting Father". So, somehow, YAHUSHUA is a Father somehow, though He is not YAHUVEH the Father.
---Gordon on 9/22/10


Gordon,

I agree, my point was,I just don't see how with all the evidence the word gives people still say the living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is Jesus who came down from heaven planted by the Holy Spirit, in the womb of a woman to be YAHWEH himself who created the universe.

Why would YAHWEH be born of the created corruptible seed of man.

Make himself lower than the angels and present himself in front of the devil to tempt!

It was said that (he) He Who? (YAHWEH) will give the angels charge over thee (JOSHUA) in-case thy dash thy foot against a stone.
---Carla on 9/22/10


Gordon,

It clearly would make no sense if YAHWEH did that.

What make complete sense is that YAHWEH sent his son to redeem sinful men by allowing his only begotten son to be born of the corruptible being (man) to show mankind that through Jesus Christ we too can conquer the second death, live righteously and have everlasting life. Christ came and passed from this life to the next to show us he did this in his resurrection and spiritually we can also if we believe.

Christ being equal to his father.... is all that... and much more like us, in terms of his visitation and example and resurrection in conquering sin , shame and life/death/life as a man.
---Carla on 9/22/10


Carla, what you've said concerning GOD being Three-in-ONE is right on. But actually, each Person of the Holy Trinity can call Themselves the "I Am". JOHN 8:58 reads: "YAHUSHUA (JESUS) said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am." He said that because the religious Jews, (who believed that GOD was only one Person and that He called Himself the "I Am"), knew what YAHUSHUA was implying. They accused Him of blasphemy for implying that He was God.
---Gordon on 9/21/10


one in union Eloy but not one in spiritual body.

Explain how the devil can tempt YAHWEH face to face?

Is God a ventriloquist?

Did the bible say Jesus Christ parted the Red sea?


Was it Jesus the Christ who appeared unto Moses?


Who did Jesus require a right seat next to in heaven and his disciples after that?


Go ahead answer!
---Carla on 9/21/10


Cluny, FYI only the "gospel" of John was written "after" Revelation
Matthew-circa 41 CE
Mark-circa 60 something CE
Luke-Late 50s CE
---1st_cliff on 9/20/10


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There is One God, not three: The Father and Son and Holy Ghost is One God.
---Eloy on 9/20/10


You cannot read from just the King James or the NIV cos they have been messed with and instead of using YAHWEH they omit it and use Lord or God. So the difference is not known exactly, what was written originally. It's not possible either because the translations have been tampered with.

The Telegraph 06/07/06 reported that Professor David Parker of Birmingham University directed the team who made the electronic transcript of the Codex Sinaiticus Possible to read on-line.

It has the foot notes of the KJV how can that be right?
---Carla on 9/20/10


Jesus claimed that he is God, and not only in claiming this, but he also proved it in doing only that what God can do.
---Eloy on 9/19/10


Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, and beside me there is no saviour.

Its ok!
---TheSeg on 9/20/10


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For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


(John 1) The Word is God. The Word became flesh. The worlds were formed by Him. Everything that was made He had a hand in.

He is God. Not just a man.
---JackB on 9/20/10


One God one Christ!

Jesus is not YAHWEH. You cannot look on YEHWEH never mind beat him,

WAKE UP 'n'Get out of the doctrine of devils.

God is I AM, Jesus is the son of the I AM.

Jesus walked with man in the physicalonly YEHEWHs voice was heard in the garden. moses was hid in the cleft of a mountain, God is so powerful.

Yet Christ was made a little lower than the angels.

How would satan TRY Tempt God, Please! God would box him into oblivion..... with his GLORY never mind his answer.

Christ told God let it be thine will, becasue if it was up to him, he wished for the cup to pass over him. So their is the exisitance of another being(spirit)
---Carla on 9/19/10


So let me understand you!
You can believe God spook everything into existent, right!
But, you cant believe, he can make his very own word, exist in the flesh?
But anything else, even air, can be made flesh. Is this about right?

Also, you can accept everything God speak happen, as soon as he speaks it.
But, you cant accept god can put off what he speaks, so it would not be in his word, yet?
Christ is the God word of God. Made flesh!

Furthermore, when you look (I guess) up to heaven. You see two chairs, right!
Tell me! Is one chair bigger than the other? If so, then dont look up, anymore!
For the Bible said there is but one, God. Only!
---TheSeg on 9/18/10


\\And also read Rev22:18 for those of you that try to add trinity in to the bible.
You must understand that Jesus, God and the Holy sprirt are one and the same. Gods name is Jesus and Jesus sent down his spirit.\\

What you're teaching is the heresy of Sabellian modalism, which was first proposed by a Roman presbyter named Sabellius at the end of the 100's.

He was deposed to teaching a novelty NOBODY had ever heard of.

"This Book" is referring to Revelation itself, not the Bible, as the Gospels were written AFTER Revelation.

Finally, look at 22:1, and you will see the Trinity there, with the Holy Spirit represented as the river flowing from the Father and Son.
---Cluny on 9/18/10


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Batieste, In MATTHEW 3:16-17, when YAHUSHUA (JESUS) was baptized and He came up out of the water, the Holy Spirit descended on Him as a Dove and the Father spoke out of Heaven like Thunder. Now, if YAHUSHUA were really "all Three" as you say, was He then performing VENTRILIQUISM by throwing His Voice to sound like "the Father speaking from Heaven"???? No, of course not. There were obviously Three seperate, distinct Persons acting out together in one Scenario. AND, in GENESIS 1:26 GOD said "Let US make man in OUR Image, after OUR Likeness...", was that just "JESUS" talking to Himself, or did He maybe have split personalities???? No, It was the Three-in-ONE GOD talking among Themselves as a cohesive Unit!
---Gordon on 9/18/10


Trinity:
Mt3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mt3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mt28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Pe1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

In the scriptures we are told of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
---trey on 9/18/10


Okay Jim I mean't that sorry :)
---Carla on 9/17/10


Trinity is not in the bible, but many of you are trying hard to put it in.
Jesus is God in the flesh.
read Colossians 1:15-
And also read Rev22:18 for those of you that try to add trinity in to the bible.
You must understand that Jesus, God and the Holy sprirt are one and the same. Gods name is Jesus and Jesus sent down his spirit.
In Rev 22:13 Jesus said He is Alpha and omega, the first and the last, beginning and the end. He's saying he God.
---batieste on 9/17/10


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There is a misunderstanding in the Church of today about how GOD is. GOD is not "One Person" up in Heaven. GOD is "Three Divine Persons in one unification. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One Person of this "Trinity", the Son, became a Man to be a Blood Ransom for "whosoever will" of mankind. Meanwhile, God the Father was still on the Heavenly Throne. The word "GOD" is like our word "family". A family is one unification of three or more persons: father, mother and child(ren). Likewise, GOD is a single Unification of Father, Holy Spirit and Son. The human family was created after the Image of the Triune GOD.
---Gordon on 9/17/10


Carla you said:Jesus became the word and dwelt amongst us.

That is not correct carla.
Jesus has always existed as the Word. There was never a time when he did not exist.
Scripture says the Word was with God in the beginning and that the Word is God. It also says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
---JIM on 9/17/10


If a man cannot look in the eyes of God and live how would God them be born of a human being and she look him in the eye.

Or the scriptures would read: Wait until I come formed the belly of a woman Mary then you can look me in the eye.(heresy)

God is God Jesus is Gods SON( ONLY begotten) both co exist as one, so are not singular in their mission. The Holy Ghost is also within that mission and the three together to make the Godhead.

Jesus became the word and dwelt amongst us.

SIMPLE, what's the problem?
---Carla on 9/17/10


Would you like to try again?
---Cluny on 9/16/10

Your argument is with this verse:

2 Pet 1:21 "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God"

How can God's words fail?

1 Cor 13 does NOT say that the words of prophecy will fail, but that the GIFT of prophecy will be done away with.

My point to you about Scripture was that Scripture was not written from Holy Tradition. Scripture was written by God using the Holy Spirit to write the words spoken by God.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/16/10


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Mark Eaton, brother I totally agree with you.
Tradition should be based on scripture and the church should base their doctrines/traditions on scripture. Not the other way around.
In fact Jesus attested to that by telling the devil this-
"Man shall not live by bread alone BUT by EVERY WORD out of the mouth of God."

God first! Christ is the foundation, nothing else.
Anything other than this and it is sand, wood, hay and stubble. false.

So, Brother Cluny, you can argue your point but Christ has the last say and what he says goes.
Christ was put in charge.
We can either set our doctrine/traditions based upon him and his word or we will have established a false church.
---ginger on 9/16/10


No, Holy Tradition is a GOD-made concept, and runs all through the New Testament.
---Cluny on 9/16/10

Please explain what Holy Tradition is for us non-Orthodox people.

Also, please give me an example of Holy Tradition that is NOT described or shown in the Bible.

As far as not knowing Church history, I came to Christ late in life and I have wasted enough time on selfish things. I choose to not waste any more time on unproductive studies.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/16/10


I think that when the Bible says Jesus is God's son, he IS God's son.

We may compare with how a cat gives birth to cats, a horse to horses, a human being to humans etc. And the newborn cat is just as much a cat as the mothercat, the horse as the horsemother etc.

The same way, the son of God ("his only begotten son", John 3:16) will also be God. Yet they are two seperate personalities.

The Bible describes Jesus as the mediator. Between who? Between us and His Father.

"...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (2.Tim.2:5)

It's not possible to be a MEDIATOR (the one necessary BETWEEN two parts) between someone and...one self...
So Jesus and the Father have to be two.
---ann on 9/16/10


WHO do you think decided (or the same thing, WHOM do you think God worked through to decide) what should be in the New Testament to start with?
---Cluny on 9/15/10

Israel. The New Covenant is too Israel. Jer 31:31/Heb 8:8. The people he came for is Israel. Matt 15:24. He cannot fail....so it is what it is. Except for those doctrines....who oppose the prophets and the apostles. Who fulfilling the Scriptures that GOD spoke through their predecessors and them.

There are two marriages mentioned by GOD to a people. One fulfilled/ended the other in the prestages of total consumation. Both to the same people as witnessed in scripture.
---Trav on 9/16/10


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\\How can Holy Tradition, a man-made concept, breathe Holy Scripture when God says that He speaks prophecy (Scripture) thru men?\\

No, Holy Tradition is a GOD-made concept, and runs all through the New Testament.

And not all prophecy is in Scripture--Scripture says so.

If all Prophecy is in Scripture, Scripture itself says in 1 Cor 13 that Prophecy SHALL FAIL.

Would you like to try again?

Both Holy Tradition and Holy Scripture IS the Holy Spirit working through men.

And as far as not wanting to know Church History, you are saying that you CHOOSE to be ignorant of the history of God's Family.
---Cluny on 9/16/10


Jesus refers to God as His Father,and God say's,"this is My Beloved Son listen to Him." thats good enough for me :)
---kevin on 9/15/10


It doesn't matter whether you can "see it" Joel, HE is!
I AM THAT I AM doesn't depend on our ability or incapability to fully comprehend the creator.
All your questions will be answered in the after life.
---larry on 9/15/10


WHO do you think decided (or the same thing, WHOM do you think God worked through to decide) what should be in the New Testament to start with?
---Cluny on 9/15/10

Deciding what is the Canon does not change the truth contained in the Books. The doctrinal truth must not be a work of the church, otherwise it is contrary to Scripture (2 Pet 1:21) that says GOD spoke Scripture thru the Holy Spirit.

If the doctrinal truth contained in the NT is a product of the church, then all we have for a NT is a "Christian Midrash".

I cannot accept this.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/15/10


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Holy Scriptures came out of Holy Tradition.
---Ignatius on 9/15/10

I have stated many times that I do not know Church history nor do I want to know it.

Your statement above does not align with this Scripture:

2 Pet 1:21 "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God"

How can Holy Tradition, a man-made concept, breathe Holy Scripture when God says that He speaks prophecy (Scripture) thru men?

I think you have the cart before the horse.

Holy Tradition must come out of the Holy Scriptures because they come from God Himself.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/15/10


Ignatius,
Athanasius revealed divinity in the Trinity.He was a true revelator.His revelation is just that- a revelation of truth to all sons of God.There is no poetry here -the three that bare witness in heaven and the three are one and the same-it is straight foward english to the reader-me.The teachings of Jesus are neither monoethistic or polyethistic-they are Three that bear witness who are equally one and as the same substance and the same they are as all one and the same three as one to the faith sons of God.
John was not confused when he revealed this in his gospel.What is confusing to some is how is it that 3 are one and the same substance.It's spiritual reality.
---earl on 9/15/10


\\BTW-- the Church does not base her teaching on the Bible. The Bible is based on the Church's teaching and should be understood only in that way.
---Cluny on 9/14/10

I cannot believe I read this.

Do you honestly believe that the Word of God is based upon the church's teachings?
\\

Why, of course!

Remember the Church functioned in ALL her fullness before ONE WORD of the NT was written. See Acts 2.

There were many things, even written by the Apostles themselves (such as St. Paul's Letter to the Laodiceans) that didn't make it into the Bible.

WHO do you think decided (or the same thing, WHOM do you think God worked through to decide) what should be in the New Testament to start with?
---Cluny on 9/15/10


1) The Church was preaching the Apostolic Tradition long before a book we now call "New Testament Scripture" was written. Holy Scriptures came out of Holy Tradition. It reflects portion of Holy Tradition. Since It was written by the Church, for the Church and was canonized BY the Church (through the shear power of the Holy Spirit), Holy Scriptures should only be understand through the lens of the Apostolic Tradition delivered by the Holy Apostles, there Successors, the God-bearing Fathers and made manifest by the Holy Ecumenical Synods (which is found now in Orthodoxy). Read Saint Irenaeus, "Against Heresies", written in 180 AD, as he explains this.

2) The Church is the pillar of Truth (1 Tim 3:15).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/15/10


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You misunderstood Cluny. Holy Scriptures IS a product of Holy Tradition, and should only be understood that way. That is why when Saint Athanasius was refuting the Arains in the 4th century and when Saint Cyril of Alexandria was refuting Nestorius in the 5th century, they both mention that they followed in the "ecclesiasitcal sense" of the Scriptures and what was delivered by the Apostles and the Fathers kept (Discourse Against the Arians, 1:44).

Want to know what the "Mind of the Church" (Orthodoxy) is? Understand the Apostolic Tradition of the Church, as revealed in the Fathers, in the Ancient Divine Liturgies, in the ancient rites of Baptism, the Holy Synods, the ancient prayers, etc.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/15/10


God's final revelation was made in one greater than the prophets, Jesus Christ. Everything is complete in Him (Col. 2:9-10).

Jesus Christ is greater than the prophets and greater than any revelation in the Old Testament because He is the embodiment of all revelation. God has fully expressed Himself in Christ.

In Hebrews 1:2 the Holy Spirit established the superiority of Christ over all the Old Testament prophets. God's revelation in the past has been completed in the last days establishes the preeminence of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/15/10


BTW-- the Church does not base her teaching on the Bible. The Bible is based on the Church's teaching and should be understood only in that way.
---Cluny on 9/14/10

I cannot believe I read this.

Do you honestly believe that the Word of God is based upon the church's teachings? Do you believe that God (who spoke the Scriptures through men) allowed His words to be under subjection to the church?

Wow, my mind is spinning from this one. That you would place the church in higher authority than the Word of God is heresy to me.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/15/10


\\Saint Athanasius also proved the Eternal Son-ship of Christ using Scriptures. His works is available online as well as the testimonies of the other Fathers.\\

This treatise, btw, is generally titled "On the Incarnation of the Son of God" in English.

Though originally written in Greek, scholars call it by its Latin handle De incarnatione.
---Cluny on 9/15/10


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\\//The Begetting is in ETERNITY, not in time, so your question "when did that begetting occur?" is meaningless.//- Cluny


If you make a statement like this it would be nice if you show scripture so we know its not just your opinion\\

As I said, this is not just my opinion. It's been believed from the begining, as Ignatius has pointed out.

BTW-- the Church does not base her teaching on the Bible. The Bible is based on the Church's teaching and should be understood only in that way.

Sola Scriptura is NOWHERE taught in the Bible.

But this, likewise, is strong meat for those who don't even understand or believe basic Christology.
---Cluny on 9/14/10


According to Christology of the Pre/Post-Nicene Fathers, there was never a time when the Son was not with the Father, for He always was the Son, and the Father was always the Father. Saint Athanasius, "Discourses Against the Arians" is through refutation against the heretic Arius and his wicked followers lies. It is the Apostolic Tradition as clear as possible. Saint Athanasius also proved the Eternal Son-ship of Christ using Scriptures. His works is available online as well as the testimonies of the other Fathers.

It is amazing how many of you are following Christological heresies and are not following Orthodoxy.

Read Hebrews 1:5-14

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 9/14/10


every human being is tri part,body,soul,and spirit.the mystery of the trinity as with many things aren,t intended to be understood,and while we live in the flesh never will be.It is clear that jesus was sent by the father,it is also clear that the comforter,or holy spirit is in the world,it is clear that jesus was with God,came to earth,died for us,was resurrected,and ascended or returned back to the father and will return. It is clear we all one day will be judged,and will receive our just rewards.It is very clear we are mortal,and God is God,try being human,and let God be God.
---tom2 on 9/14/10


I understand that when it says He is seated at the right hand of God, it means at the right hand of God the Father. And Jesus is God in human form. I consider how man is made in the image of God, and man is a family being with three basic persons . . . father, child, mother . . . like the Father and Son and Holy Spirit, each with love functions and specialization. So, it's like one computer system, with a number of websites. The computer knows everything, but each website is not processing all that is in the whole system. So, this is "why" Jesus "continued all night in prayer to God," before He chose the twelve apostles (Luke 12-16): it takes time for Them to relate in love's preparation to do what is good.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/14/10


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JoeIta

i agree with -Donna5535 of all the reply's to this blog hers makes the most sense. i use to be in UPC when i first got saved, some call them Jesus only but me being a sponge and being hungry i would search out the truth when i heard the pastor or an evangelist preach. The Holy Ghost will lead you into all the truth.

1 John 5:7-8 (King James Version)

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
---Lea on 9/14/10


JACK this might be what your looking for

REVELATION 13:8 AND all that dwell upon the earth shall worhship him,whose names are not written in the book of life of the LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.
( If the LAMB - CHRIST - was slain from the
FOUNDATION -The beginning-that mean CHIRST was around during the beginning.This opens
up alot of questions,Was the payment really done in the beginning or was it done twice?This would explain how peoples sins were paid for in OT.I don't know with this one, it leaves me with more questions than answers.
---RICHARD on 9/14/10


JackB:

Most people know the first part of this verse but the last part is what you want.

Col 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation"

How can Jesus be the first born of all creation? It means that Jesus was begotten/born in eternity past before creation began, since Jesus created all things.

vv17 continues with "He is before all things" meaning both in time and preeminence. vv18 says "and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything"
---Mark_Eaton on 9/14/10


Alan,
I have posted on this issue before.
You do have solid valid questions.
Your questions center on this ,as I interpret it,for how can a begotten also be eternal or infinite deity.They cannot.Only eternal is endless and never beginning and begotten is always having a beginning at sometime but may never experience an ending.This compared to a human we are finite having a beginning and a ending of the physical form we inhabit.With that said Jesus is begotten and the Eternal Son is not begotten but eternal infinite.With that said Jesus is the spiritual and lived in a one time human form where by man experienced both the Eternal Father and Eternal Son and Jesus himself also in a human form.
---earl on 9/14/10


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//The Begetting is in ETERNITY, not in time, so your question "when did that begetting occur?" is meaningless.//- Cluny


If you make a statement like this it would be nice if you show scripture so we know its not just your opinion

Thats what I asked in my post. If anyone has scripture showing that the Word IS/WAS the eternal Son BEFORE the incarnation, I would love to see it. I have not as of yet run across any. Im not saying it isnt possible, just that Ive seen no scripture stating so.

Anyone? Im not talking about scripture that takes "personal" revelation and twisting the meanings of greek/hebrew words. If God wants us to understand this as truth, He will be very CLEAR on it. Agreed?
---JackB on 9/14/10


---JoelTA on 9/13/10 since I am a simple-minded person, having child-like faith, let me share with you what the Holy Spirit said to me one day.

"Daughter, you are not called to understand my word (the Trinity), you are called to BELIEVE it, and then I will give you the understanding you are asking for."

Joe-ask God to reveal to you what the Trinity is. Jesus said, I and the Father are one. Jesus also said, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

Believe in the Trinity, then ask God to bring the understanding to you, okay? He will, if you ask Him to. He did it for me and I'm no scholar.
---Donna5535 on 9/14/10


I wish I could quote your entire post, alan of UK, but I can't.

You're mistaken on several points.

The Begetting is in ETERNITY, not in time, so your question "when did that begetting occur?" is meaningless.

You're mistaken about "Only-begotten" referring to the birth of the Incarnate Logos in time from the Virgin.

"Only-begotten" refers to the Logos in His Divine Nature, Who is the Only-begotten of the Father, and hence shares His nature as God.

This is what Christians have taught from the beginning.

NOW you see why I have said in the past that it's POINTLESS to discuss strong meat with people who don't even believe that Jesus is Eternal God Incarnate.
---Cluny on 9/14/10


I believe Jesus is the Son of God but I can't see how He is God if He is seated at God's right hand.

YES i see. The most common name for the FATHER in the NT is GOD.WHen you see GOD In the NT it manly means THE FATHER.

And reality is that there are three distint beings who is called God.


---francis on 9/14/10


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"JoelTA" (at least I hope you are)

"Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee. And again I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son"

Begotten: "to bear, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, make, spring"

Was the Word of God conceived or was the Son of God, Jesus Christ, conceived?

Ive noticed in scripture that when Christ is referred to BEFORE the incarnation, he is called the Word. But AFTER the earthly incarnation He is called the Son.
Notice also that he was conceived BY the Holy Ghost. (Matt 1:18)

If anyone has scripture stating that the Word was the Son in eternity before He was incarnate I would love to see it.
---JackB on 9/14/10


Jesus is the Son of God, but also God. God is THREE PERSONS (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), but ONE GOD (1 John 5:7-8). Picture it this way: an egg is THREE PARTS (shell, white, yoke), but ONE EGG. This is how God is according to the Bible. Anyone who says different, is AGAINST the Bible and God.
---Leslie on 9/14/10


The Son of God, "Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father" (Nicene Creed) indeed did not know the Time for he spoke in his Incarnational state (John 1:14). When the Son "emptied himself" (Philp 2:7), he took upon himself what He was not, while remaining what he was (God).

The consequences of this hypostatic union of the two natures in Christ are the "coinherence" of human and divine nature, the communicatio idiomatum, the natural sonship of Christ's humanity, one worship of the two natures in Christ, deification of Christ's human nature, Christ's double knowledge and power (however, attributed to one person), among other things, etc.

In IC.XC
---Ignatius on 9/13/10


"The Substance of the Trinity is, so to say, a common Essence in that which is distinct, an incomprehensible, ineffable Substance. We hold the distinction, not the confusion of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a distinction without separation, a distinction without plurality, and thus we believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as each existing from and to eternity in this divine and wonderful Mystery: not in two Fathers, nor in two Sons, nor in two Spirits. [....]So we believe,so we read, so we hold. We know the fact of distinction, we know nothing of the hidden mysteries, we pry not into the causes, but keep the outward signs vouchsafed unto us."

Saint Ambrose,On the Christian Faith,8:92(A.D. 380),in NPNF2,X:274.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 9/13/10


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Jesus says: "And when you all will see Jerusalem surrounded with armies, and see the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place: for then will be tribulation. As the days of Noah when the flood came, and the day Lot left Sodom and it rained fire and brimstone destroying all, so also will it be in the day when the Son of man comes. You all call me The LORD, indeed you all say well, for I am. I am the Alpha and the Omega, Beginning and Ultimate, says the Lord, which from being, and which to being, and which coming, The Almighty. To the person who overcomes will I grant to sit with me on my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with Father of me on his throne."
---Eloy on 9/14/10


Cluny ... "The Son is not created (like the world) but is begotten--and this does NOT refer to His birth from the Virgin Mary"

But, the Bible says (John) that "In the beginning was the Word .. and was with God ... and was God"

How could the Word be the begotten son, when He was there right from the beginning? When did that begetting occur?

I've always taken "only begotten" as referring to Jesus the Man and His birh from Mary ...
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/14/10


JoelTA Jesus is the Father's Son, His Word, brought forth solely of Himself and made tangible to man through Mary. Jesus was the human vessel through which the Father choose to manifest Himself in His interaction with man, as Teacher, Saviour and redeemer. Jhn 1:18
Jesus now sits in a place of honor, as one who has been granted the complete power and authority of the Father. Which is what the term "right hand of God" literally means. John 13:3
As far as the statement you mention is concerned, He did not actually say "nor do I". What He did say is "the Father loves the Son, and shows Him 'all things' that He Himself does. 'All things' have been delivered to Me by My Father." John 5:20>Mat 11:27
---Josef on 9/14/10


Joel

Through the Bible where it says at the right hand, that Is a designation of power & authority.

Jesus Christ Is The Living God. Psa.111 v 9 Is Jesus Christ to come, Isa.9 v 6 Is Jesus Christ, Matt.28 v 19 Is Jesus Christ, John 20 v's 27 - 28 Is Jesus Christ, 1st.Tim.3 v 16 Is Jesus Christ, Colo.2 v 9 Is Jesus Christ, Rev.22 v 13 Is Jesus Christ.

God Is omnipresent, He Is everywhere present All at once at the same time. He does it All. The only place He isn't, is a persons life that has Not let Him in.
---Lawrence on 9/14/10


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The translators however did their best to try to make the understanding meet their own understanding at the time.

However there is no confusion with those who understand what Jesus said. He is the Son the only begotton son, he came down from his heavenly place and dwelt as a man from the womb of a woman. However (YAWHEH DID NOT). God is the father, The I AM, of whom YESHUAH is his son. Jesus does not find it disrepectful to equate himself as being one with his father.



Read the word as it is. You pray to the father through Jesus Christ.The Holy Spirit is the comforter.

All else is confusion the doctrines of devils there is no Trinity! there is no One god having three physical heads!
---Carla on 9/14/10


"Son of God", simply designates His eternal, co-equal, and consubstantial Deity. John 14:28 "Father is great than I" point to His particular temporal activity and function, not in any way to His eternal and essential being. So here is your answer to all of your questions....Jesus words "I and the Father are one" [John 10:30].
---catherine on 9/13/10


IF Jesus is ONLY the Son of God and not God the Son, then He lied to all of His followers, since He repeatedly said that He and the Father are one. We don't have to understand this thought because we can't, but we do have to believe that He is one with the Father. If He is a liar, I don't want anything to do with Him, but, I believe that He meant what He said as a fact that He was/is one with the Father. John 1:1 says that He (the Word) was in the beginning with God and that He was God. If the Apostle John believed that why can't we?
---tommy3007 on 9/13/10


REPLYING to Jesus not KNOWING Judgement Day
MATTHEW 24:36 But of that day and hour no one know, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the father alone.
The original Bible was written lower case letters so the s in Son was small. The translators capitalize the S given it more importance, So people thought it was CHRIST. satan is also called the son, Psalms 89:22 - Isaiah 14:12 - Thessalonians 2:3
( Now Jesus has to know the time the time)
JOHN 14:9 --- he that seen me hath seen the FATHER ---------
JOHN 10,30 I and my Father are One
( This is just the tip of the iceberg, This verse with other verses in the BIBLE gets complex.)
---RICHARD on 9/13/10


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Is this a lie or the truth?

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:

before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, and beside me there is no saviour.

Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he, and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
---TheSeg on 9/13/10


Joe, for the purpose of this discussion, may I assume you have a son?

Your son has the same surname as you.

Your son has the same NATURE as you--he's not a beaver, guppy, or armadillo.

He's not something you make (such as a house or a suit) which has a different nature.

You and your son share the same nature. You share the same surname.

But you are not the same PERSONS.

Think of this as how it relates to the Father and the Son.

The Son is not created (like the world) but is begotten--and this does NOT refer to His birth from the Virgin Mary.

He shares the same NATURE as the Father.

The Father and the Son are both God.

But they are different PERSONS.

I hope this helps.
---Cluny on 9/13/10


Jesus is Gods son seated on the right side of him. God chose Jesus to be king of kings. Jesus came to the earth to teach of his fathers kingdom. The "trinity" taught by the RCC is borrowed from the greek mythology & other pagan ideas.Not what Christ taught at all, so your thoughts are correct. He is Gods son, not God himself.
---candice on 9/13/10


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