ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Is Wine A Mocker

Please give your opinion as to the meaning of this verse.
Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Christian Living Quiz
 ---mima on 9/14/10
     Helpful Blog Vote (3)

Post a New Blog



Samuel,my Greek NT references say the NT Greek word "oinos" refers only to fermented wine. This is the Greek equivalent of the OT Hebrew (pronounced) yah-yin. Both translated as wine (fermented) in the OT and NT

It was from yah-yin Noah became drunk. Does that mean drinking alcoholic wine is a sin? Not at all, see Exodus 29: 37,40 "Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar,..sanctify it,..it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy ...one lamb, a tenth deal of flour...fourth part of an hin of beaten oil, .the fourth part of an hin of wine [yah-yin] for a drink offering."

What God has said is holy is holy.

Drinking is not drunkeness, nor eating gluttony!
---Warwick on 4/28/11


Tell me about how much wine you have made, Samuel.

Oh, that's right. You're prejudiced against it.

I was told what I said by a vintner.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 4/28/11


Issues like these are what made me leave the church.


The very person complaining about wine because its 'bad for the temple' probably weighs 250lbs and has high cholesterol, or participates in some other form of pleasure that is harmful to the body and is so full of guilt over it they come here to find reasons to judge everyone else.

I detest hypocrites.
---jacqueline on 4/28/11


I was talking about Jesus making UNfermented wine, samuel.

You wont find that in scripture. That is a theory.
---Jasheradan on 4/28/11


When grapes are crushed into juice, it begins fermenting IMMEDIATELY from the natural yeasts on the skins that float through the air.

Cluny

Spoken like a man who never made wine in his life. I do not need to argue this. Do a web search on making wine. One of the first things they tell you to do is wash the grapes the natural fermentation makes very bad wine. Which dengenerates into vinegar.

Most people like to get drunk. So what? Does that change that GOD is opposed to cause our bodies harm?
---Samuel on 4/28/11




So are wine, food and motor cars the problem, or abuse of the same? The answer is obvious.

Wine is wine (alcoholic) not juice. If it was juice it would have been called juice! Warwick

oinos Greek word New Testament for both.

In the New Testament the word covers both. Cars are designed to move us from one place to another. So when we misuse them it can cause problem. Now Wine is not required to stay alive but yes it can be misused.

The purpose of Alcohol is cause a person to not think or act correctly to be stupid. My dad used to make wine. He had to add sugar to get the alcohol content up. So if people only drank low alcoholic wine then you can have a case. But in reality that is not what happens.
---Samuel on 4/28/11


\\The wine JESUS made was unfermented. \\

At least you admit you are prejudiced, but this statement has no basis in reality.

When grapes are crushed into juice, it begins fermenting IMMEDIATELY from the natural yeasts on the skins that float through the air.

So it ever was until a Methodist minister named Welch discovered a process to pasteurize grape juice.

Sorry, but first century Jews did NOT share the tee-total sympathies of some 19th century American Christians.

And they still don't.
---Cluny on 4/28/11


Thats a nice theory, Samuel, unfortunately it does not say that in scripture.

Jasheradan

What I stated is not a theory. It is a fact that millions of people die and have their lives ruined because of alcohol. I did not say these words are from the bible they are from information found in records of events that happen.

By the way many people take the excuse that wine is okay to mean so is beer, whiskey and all other alcholic drinks. Alchol is a legal drug by definition. So those who support it are in effect supporting a drug which is a depressent. Just a fact to think about.
---Samuel on 4/28/11


aka ... Actual wines will not have added alcohol

Wine yeast will ferment up to about 14% alcohol naturally. That is quite strong if you drink too much of it!

Fortified wines will have more acohol added, and thus be more potent
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/28/11


one of the natural products of aged grape juice is alcohol. the alcohol was in trace amounts, and was not an added ingredient as it is in much of the strong alcoholic wine drinks today.

the importance of the consumption of anything is not what goes in, it is in what comes as a result.

drink wine in moderation and it could result in better health, or, drink wine in abundance and it could result in 'sharing' with your daughters. i have never seen it work in reverse.

i am not a tea-totaler, but I personally stay away from drugs, legal or illegal, because I do not want my kids to think i will leave in the pursuit of as they have already witnessed in their young lives.
---aka on 4/28/11




Samuel, Deuteronomy 14:26 clearly says food and alcoholic drinks are good, something to rejoice over.

Does God say drunkeness is good? Of course not. He says food is good but obesity from excessive eating kills untold numbers of people. Should we stop eating?Likewise car accidents injure and kill many. Is this because of the use, or abuse of cars?

So are wine, food and motor cars the promblem, or abuse of the same? The answer is obvious.

Wine is wine (alcoholic) not juice. If it was juice it would have been called juice!

I do not wish to convince anyone else to drink alcohol, but to convince you not to abuse Scripture to support personal beliefs.
---Warwick on 4/28/11


Thats a nice theory, Samuel, unfortunately it does not say that in scripture.

---Jasheradan on 4/27/11


The wine JESUS made was unfermented.

I have seen people drunk and have lost family members to people who killed them why being drunk. Read the MADD statics and read how many people die in alchol related accidents, murders and crimes. Alchol send people to death every day.

I am prejudice because of what I have seen an lived through.
---Samuel on 4/27/11


And yet wine is so sinful that Jesus made some for a wedding ceremony....

If wine were evil you could see that as God enticing us to sin further.

Obviously the sinless Christ didnt see it as anything evil or he wouldnt have freely given it to others.

Open your heart and stop living in fear. Even Christ drank wine at the last supper and he was sinless. Doesnt that tell you anything? It should
---Jasheradan on 4/27/11


Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

People think that they can handly drinking alcohol, but they can't. the wine laughts at them, and make fools of them.
---Francis on 4/27/11


If God is opposed to us consuming alcoholic drinks then he has written some strange things-Deuteronomy 14:26 "Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice."

Nowhere does God encourage excess in anything, but in all things to be moderate.

Many people in western societies are dependant upon proscribed mind-altering drugs, many of which are addictive and health-destroying but I have yet to see the self-righteous criticize them here.

Others find a glass or two of wine or beer relaxing and some call them drunks. Hypocrisy?

I'll drink to that!
---Warwick on 4/26/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


" It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else to cause your brother to stumble". It not that to drink wine is wrong (though becoming drunk certainly is), but will you do it despite the fact that you may cause your brother to stumble.
---willa5568 on 4/22/11


I am a little biased here. My Father was an alcholic and I saw what it did to him. I have had three friends killed by drunk drivers and a relative who killed themselves after getting drunk.

I know there is some room for disagreement on the Bible verses. But alcohol kills people and destroys lives. I can never support that which I have seen do so much damage. Nor do I think can GOD.
---Samuel on 4/22/11


"Fifty years ago this was not an issue."

And 200 years ago the "two wine" theory and prohibitionist stance weren't issues. Then they were suddenly created out of nowhere.

And after reading this blog, I must ask: why are prohibitionists so angry when discussing this issue? Moderationists generally want to analyze scripture. Prohibitionists seem content to label moderationists "drunkards" looking to "excuse" their "sin," and then tell them they're hell-bound. (Judge others, much?)

Really, is this supposed to cause moderationists to stop questioning/exposing the great lengths that prohibitionists will go to in twisting scripture to argue their case?
---Brendon on 4/21/11


The meaning of mockers given Jude18 in the mouth of 2or3 witnesses.Mockers are people that follow their ungodly lusts.In Prov.its the ungodly lust for wine fermented.Fifty years ago this was not an issue.Knew it was not to touch our lips.
---nancy on 1/27/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


A case can be made for the statement.
There are gradations of sin.
For example you can have a little wine without damage.
You cannot have a little adultery without damage.
Damage here meaning Sinful action.
---mima on 11/2/10


\\"how did his drinking adversely affect his family?"Cluny

Just read the whole story. I think the incident was unpleasent to all...\\

In other words, you can't answer my question.

Many adults (and children) sleep naked. That's no big thing. The sin was not Noah's sleeping naked, or even drinking, but Ham's laughing at him and acting like it was something contemptible.

In other words HAM sinned, not Noah.
---Cluny on 10/8/10


"how did his drinking adversely affect his family?"Cluny

Just read the whole story. I think the incident was unpleasent to all...

When Adam and Eve sinned, they experienced nakedness. What did God do? He covered them. But to do so, an innocent animal was sacrificed... First illustration of the Saviour come...
In Rev.3:18 God offers white clothes to cover the nakedness. Again, the problem is "nakedness because of sin". Only God can cover it. And this is what He always does - covers it.

Noah's experience with wine should be a warning to us. It's true, it may not be sin to put alcohol into ones mouth, but we increase our risk to sin when we do - just as Noah undressed when he lost control of his mind....
---emmy on 10/8/10


\\Noah was NOT declared righteous because of his drinking!\\

Nor was he declared unrighteous because of it.

And just how did his drinking adversely affect his family?

Only his own reaction to Ham did so.
---Cluny on 10/7/10


Shop For Christian Home Business Opportunities


"is anyone here advocating inebriation? " Glenn

I don't think so.


But if one has seen just a small part of the pain that a person experiences who cannot control his/her drinking habits, or the pain and problems it may cause for his/her family and friends, one might want to support the work for total avoidance...

I feel sad when I see what injuries it causes to some of my patients too... Direct injuries of body and brain... Or indirectly through accidents... A man in the beginning of the 20s...loosing one of his legs... So meaningless...
It's really not worth the "pleasure"...
---emmy on 10/6/10


Emmy, is anyone here advocating inebriation? And please carefully read my entries on 10/1, as you are violating some of those verses. A Christian may not place ones brother under a yoke of bondage, and it would be sinful to dis-fellowship he who is not in unrepentant sin, Matthew 7:1-5 / Luke 6:41-42 (hypocritical and censorious judgment).
Matthew 11:28-30, 15:17-18, John 2:1-11, Acts 15:5, 10, 24, 28-29, Romans 12:3, Galatians 2:4-5, 11-21, 5:1-26, Colossians 2:8, James 4:6.
---Glenn on 10/5/10


The Bible doesn't say "the wages of alcohol is death". But it says that "the wages of SIN is death". We increase our risk of sinning when we drink - thus it's NOT wise. And we may temptate and hurt others too.

Noah was NOT declared righteous because of his drinking!
God called him righteous BEFORE the flood and the drinking. But I still think Noah regretted and repented, and God forgave him. But it was not a wise act, and he suffered from it... so did his family.

Knowing the consequences of alcohol we're also responsible for our acts when drunk.

"BE SOBER, BE VIGILANT, because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour." 1.Pet.5:8
---emmy on 10/5/10


\\Since my husband is a recovering (slowly!) alcoholic, I believe in the avoidance of strong drink as much as is possible, at least for those who can't handle the stuff--myself included.
---Mary on 10/4/10\\

I won't argue with you, Mary.

I love chicken livers, but they are among the worst things for gout (which I have).

So I have to avoid them.
---Cluny on 10/4/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


Emmy I know you are aware the Bible says this about Noah in Genesis 6:8-9 "8-But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

9-These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

So did this change? Did God have take back(a gifts of God or without repentance) the grace that he grace he gave Noah?

Did Noah go to heaven or hell? That is the question.
---mima on 10/4/10


Since my husband is a recovering (slowly!) alcoholic, I believe in the avoidance of strong drink as much as is possible, at least for those who can't handle the stuff--myself included.
---Mary on 10/4/10


\\How wine can make a wise and righteous person act unwisely and do unrighteous things:\\

It is not the wine per se that made Noah do this, but rather too much wine--just like too much food can dull the senses and harm physical health, too.

The Bible says MUCH more about gluttony, but I never heard anything about this from the pulpit in my Baptist days before I got saved. Probably because gluttony was a vice approved of by them, if dinner on the grounds is any indication.
---Cluny on 10/4/10


How wine can make a wise and righteous person act unwisely and do unrighteous things:

"And Noah...planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken, and he was uncovered within his tent." (Gen.9:20-21) The next verses shows the sad consequences...

Lot, the one righteous man of Sodom, saved by such a miracle, even made incest with 2 of his daughters because of the effects of wine (Gen.19:30-38).

It definately may lead to fall... Sometimes destroying us, sometimes destroying others... I think avoiding alcohol is a good principle, a good way of protecting oneself and others, and also a way of giving an example for others who may not limit the use or control the effects (as we might ourselves)...
---emmy on 10/4/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


2/2
Wine, It:
was a curse to not be able to drink it, Isaiah 1:22, 24:11, Micah 6:15.
was used in offerings, Exodus 29:40, Numbers 15:4-10.
had medicinal uses, 2Samuel 16:2, Proverbs 31:6, 1Timothy 5:23.
made glad, Psalm 104:15, Ecclesiastes 10:19.
was a blessing, Genesis 14:18, Proverbs 9:2, 5, Ecclesiastes 9:7, Isaiah 25:6, 55:1, Amos 9:14, Zechariah 10:7, Matthew 26:29, John 2:3-11, 1Corinthians 10:16.
Drunkenness forbidden: Esther 1:10-12, Proverbs 20:1, 23:29-35, 31:4-5, Isaiah 5:11, 28:7, Hosea 4:11, Joel 3:3, Amos 6:6, Luke 21:34, Romans 13:13, Ephesians 5:18, 1Timothy 3:8, Titus 1:7.
was forbidden Priests entering the tabernacle, Leviticus 10:9, and Nazarites, Numbers 6:3.
---Glenn on 10/1/10


1/2
Jesus made wine, John 2:1-11, "and his disciples believed on him." A wedding was a religious celebration. In verse 10, drunk means to be mildly intoxicated, as many verses prohibit drunkenness. Although, Romans 14:1-15:7 and 1Corinthians 8:3-13 predominately concerns meat sacrificed to Idols, and religious customs, we are to consider our weaker brother. However, a Christian may not break fellowship with his brother over the issue, Romans 14:1-12 (This says "doubtful disputations", or allows the one to drink, and the other to not drink.), Galatians 2:11-14, 4:9-10, Ephesians 4:1-3, Colossians 2:16-23.
Emmy: Jesus, his disciples, and his mother!
---Glenn on 10/1/10


Anyone who would like to have a surgery - when the surgon has drunk alcohol? Or travel with an aeroplane when the pilot has drunk?

Not me, at least! Besides, these things are forbidden by law. Why? Because we KNOW that alcohol does something to our mind, our watchfulness, our ability to act quickly and rationally...

Swallowing alcohol may not be sin in itself, but when we do we place ourselves in a position where we more easily may fall into sin! We may hurt ourselves or others (-just think about all those accidents!).

Therefore, when we drink it, we're really NOT WISE, as the Proverb says!
---emmy on 9/28/10


This speaks of a person who chooses to drink, and then when under the influence they think that they can continue to drink without becoming intoxicated...Example, "I can drink one more, and one more, hicup, and one more, hicup hicup hicup, ar wa moe, hicup, uh wa ma, hic-cup, hic-up...ware em I? what happen last night? who is this in my bed? who's bed is this?...etc.
---Eloy on 9/27/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


Nehemiah 10:39 For the children of Israel and the children of Levi shall bring the offering of the corn, of the new wine,

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and [one] saith, Destroy it not, for a blessing [is] in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

Haggai 1:11 And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the corn, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil, and upon [that] which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the labour of the hands.
---francis on 9/27/10


\\The phrase strong drink can mean euther a thick wine like palm wine, or date wine, or an alcoholic beverage.

The same word used for grape juice, is also the same word used for feremented drink in the bible.

It is never the phrase " strong drink" or the word " wine" Which determinswhether is is ETOH or not, it is the context.
---francis on 9/26/10\\

More fairy tales believed by those who think the 11th commandment is "Thou shalt not drink."

In any case, without refrigeration or pasteurization, fermentation of any of these juices starts immediately. It's a natural process and starts all by itself.
---Cluny on 9/27/10


The phrase strong drink can mean euther a thick wine like palm wine, or date wine, or an alcoholic beverage.

The same word used for grape juice, is also the same word used for feremented drink in the bible.

It is never the phrase " strong drink" or the word " wine" Which determinswhether is is ETOH or not, it is the context.
---francis on 9/26/10


Actually, did you know the Bible allows you to spend your tithe money on booze?

Deuteronomy 14:26
And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deuteronomy 14:25-27
---Cluny on 9/26/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


\\Who pray tell is wiser than God, and who gives God council?
---francis on 9/21/10\\

Do you think you are, francis?

Jesus, Who is God Incarnate, made several hundred gallons of WINE--not grape juice.

You are perfectly free to not drink, if that is your choice.

But please do not drag others into your home-made bondage of "Thou shalt not drink."
---Cluny on 9/26/10


francis:

When God's Word says "sometimes do X" and "sometimes do not do X", "X" is not absolute. Whether it is good or not depends on the context. This is why we need to use wisdom and discerment, and not just cherry pick our favorite verses here and there to build ironclad doctrines on.

In the case of wine, for example, Proverbs 31:4-5 say it's bad and in the very next verse says it's good. So neither tea-totallers nor lushes can claim "God's Absolute Truth" supports them. Instead, we must acknowledge that BOTH verses are true, and correctly discern which is applicable at any given time.
---StrongAxe on 9/21/10


\\So it is Gods wosdom, and not absolute?\\

Yep.

Don't forget, the Bible also talks about "correctly cutting" (ORTHOTOUMAI) the Word of God, that is applying it properly.
---Cluny on 9/20/10

Did you, or did you not see the NOT part of "not absolute?"

Who pray tell is wiser than God, and who gives God council?
---francis on 9/21/10


Lea:

You said: first of all if you are filled with Gods Holy Spirit you need no man to teach you Gods ways.

If true, why did the Apostles write the Bible? Except for the gospels, the epistles and Revelation were directed at born-again spirit-filled believers, who according to you don't need teachings of men, but instead can "learn religion straight from God" (to abuse the title of a satire article I read in the 70s).

Proverbs 31:4-5 condemns wine as a mocker AND IN THE VERY NEXT VERSE recommend it to cheer people up. The Bible does not unilaterally condemn alcohol. Tee-totalers must look elsewhere for justification.

If drinking around 4 drinks a year makes me a lush, you're too judgmental.
---StrongAxe on 9/21/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Marketing


StrongAx

first of all if you are filled with Gods Holy Spirit you need no man to teach you Gods ways. You cannot make the Holy bible say what you want it to , it is what it is the truth !

Drinking is a sin weather it be wine beer or whiskey
Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink, and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

are you filled with the Holy Spirit? i think not or you would not be in favor of drinking alcohol.
---Lea on 9/20/10


\\So it is Gods wosdom, and not absolute?\\

Yep.

Don't forget, the Bible also talks about "correctly cutting" (ORTHOTOUMAI) the Word of God, that is applying it properly.
---Cluny on 9/20/10


So it is Gods wosdom, and not absolute?
And do we include it All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

Proverbs 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
Proverbs 25:22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

Romans 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him, if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
---FRANCIS on 9/19/10


Lea:

Exactly! We need to use moderation in everything, and make decisions based on wisdom and discernment - not hysterically treating everything as black or white, 100% good or 100% evil as some do. While that kind of thinking is much easier than relying on wisdom, it is overly simplistic (and can lead to many error - in this case, for example, clinging to one verse as being authoriative while ignoring the very next verse). Black-and-white thinking is characteristic of cults.
---StrongAxe on 9/18/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Life Insurance


Romans 14:2- "For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs." Please read whole chapter to get full context.
Everything in moderation is a good rule of thumb. Food, television, or even quilting could be sinful if they are done in excess and keep one from other things in their life that need done.
We should be helping each other grow in the Spirit, not bickering and name calling other believers.
---Jill on 9/18/10


1.) Man takes a drink.
2.) Drink take a drink.
3.) Drink takes a man.
---trey on 9/18/10


Strong Ax

Wisdom is right ...Gods Wisdom !
Proverbs 31:6
"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts."

And 1 Timothy 5:23
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

"but" this was meant as medicine not to drink as in making ones self drunk......so much of the Bible is taken out of text, and if you want to please your flesh and sin go right ahead and drink and smoke on judgment day where will you go to?
---Lea on 9/17/10


francis:

There is a difference between wisdom and commandment, and between profitable and mandatory. Someone can tell you it's a bad idea to drink coffee on an empty stomach, for example (i.e. wisdom), but that doesn't mean you'll go to hell if you do so, since this is just wise advice, not a finger on Mt. Sinai writing "thou shalt not drink coffee on an empty stomach, on pain of death!" on a piece of rock.

Paul suggested wine to Timothy for an upset stomach, as a health tip - NOT a command for us all to drink wine. Proverbs condemns wine because it can lead to foolishness - YET IN THE NEXT VERSE it recommends it to relieve pain. Again, these are advice about when to use alcohol - NOT commandments to drink, or not drink.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Make Money


StrongAxe, then if it is a book of wisdom, is it God's wisdom, or man's wisdom?
Is the book of proverbs scripture?
Is the book of Proverbs profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?
---francis on 9/17/10


francis:

Yes, it is, but once again, in order to understand what something means, one needs to understand context. One must understand that Proverbs is a book of wisdom, not of law. One must understand that Song of Songs is a love poem, not a book of law. Many of the historical books describe acts by various patriarchs that should fill us with disgust and horror, not be taken as role models for proper behavior.
Leviticus IS a book of law, but it was written to the Jews, and Christians are not bound by it, etc.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/10


"Just as not every bite of food is an act of gluttony, so ever glass of wine is not an act of drunkedness."
---Cluny on 9/16/10

I agree with this statement by Cluny.
---mima on 9/17/10


StrongAxe
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Is the book of Proverbs included in " all scripture?"

And this is the key question: Does wine automatacily mean alcoholic beverage?
---francis on 9/17/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


francis:

Remember that Proverbs is a book of wisdom (i.e. advice), NOT a book of law or doctrine.

Also, biblical condemnation of wine is by no means universal:

(the very same) Proverbs 31:6
"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts."

And 1 Timothy 5:23
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

(Also Ecclesiastes 9:7, Isaiah 62:8-9)
---StrongAxe on 9/16/10


Proverbs 23:31 LOOK NOT thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.
Proverbs 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Proverbs 31:4 [It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes strong drink:
Proverbs 31:5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
---francis on 9/16/10


Just as not every bite of food is an act of gluttony, so ever glass of wine is not an act of drunkedness.
---Cluny on 9/16/10


I have two: Wine here is personified as an evil demon. The man who allows himself to be deceived by demon rum is a fool, for its power to destroy is seen everywhere in society. Or, Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, It smiles upon him at first, but at the last it bites. It rages in his conscience, it is raging in his body. When the wine is in, the wit is out, and then the man, according as his natural temper, is either mock like a fool or rages like a madman. Drunkenness which seen to be a sociable thing, renders men unfit for society. A drunkard is a fool, and a fool he is likely to be.
---catherine on 9/15/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Stocks


\\In biblical days how would they know which one of the two had more alcohol on any given day?\\

It wouldn't matter. In Biblical days they simply made wine.

Without refrigeration, preservatives, or pasteurization, grape juice starts fermenting into wine immediately. Should it be contamination with the right bacteria, it then becomes vinegar.

All natural wines (as opposed to fortified wines such as sherry and champagne) are about 11% alcohol. At that point, the alcohol kills the yeast, that has floated through the air and landed on the skins (which is why fermentation starts immediately).

++++++++

Leslie, I've already quoted the appropriate Scripture that the wine is WINE, not the Holy Spirit.
---Cluny on 9/15/10


Where did you study the Bible, Rhonda? Sears? K-Mart?
****

yet another immature sarcastic PERSONAL bashing from Cluny - arrogance contempt and anger ..its getting OLD - your acting like a putoff 15 year old ...sort of hard to not notice across so many topics now

why don't you get off your high pedestal come back down to earth and ACTUALLY READ the entire post I wrote

seems like you trotted off with your response making an insipid assumption ...seeing I was using the posters response as a way to make my point which I believe is close to agreement with yours

but you just carry on in your emotional defense tantrum as you ALWAYS DO ...if you wake up give it a read
---Rhonda on 9/15/10


francis ... Yes let's look at the Bible, which tells us that Jesus turned water into wine.
It also tells us that Jesus was calleda wine-bibber ... because he associated with wine drinkers, and even drunkards ... yet it was a false accuation, since he drank wine but not to excess
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/15/10


Cluny, ,Now lets look at it from a BIBLICAL perspective.
Old Goldstein down younder makes wine, and Goldberg in the mountain also males wine.

In biblical days how would they know which one of the two had more alcohol on any given day?
---francis on 9/15/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Diabetes


Cluny - Once again you go with personal opinion rather than the Bible. The fact is that YOU are WRONG, NOT the Bible. In saying that the Bible is wrong, you MOCK (make fun of) God and call Him a liar. You put yourself on the thone as God which is idolitry. From most of your responses, it is clear that you are NOT truly saved, and are on your way to Hell. I urge you to REPENT and put your trust in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord (boss), before it's eternally too late.
---Leslie on 9/15/10


\\As a matter of fact, francis, most people DO know their limit.
-Cluny on 9/14/10

Then once again the BIBLE is wrong!\\

No, francis.

Once again, YOU are wrong.

You've made it quite clear from your past posts that you do NOT know how to apply Biblical verses practically.

You even admit as much.
---Cluny on 9/14/10


\\Cluny - You have it WRONG. The wine that makes glad is refuring to the Holy Spirit, NOT acual wine
****\\

Where did you study the Bible, Rhonda? Sears? K-Mart?

Read the passage itself, Psalm 104 KJV

14He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth,

15And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

It is clear from the passage that wine comes from the earth.

The Holy Spirit does NOT come from the earth.
---Cluny on 9/14/10


Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

before i became a Christian 20 yrs ago i was a barmaid for 18 yrs and yes i loved wine and many other kinds of alcohol, and when i drank i got drunk. Anyone that says they have a glass of wine at times will over indulge. And Jesus didn't turn the water into wine as we know it but it was grape juice, why would he go against his word, he doesn't. Mankind likes to live as they please instead of becoming Spirit led they are led by their flesh, smoking, drinking, gluttony i can go on and on. Me i decided i didn't like who i was so i became a new creature in Christ. I belong to him a Spirit filled Christian Lady.
---Lea on 9/14/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Depression


Cluny - You have it WRONG. The wine that makes glad is refuring to the Holy Spirit, NOT acual wine
****

ahh what? it's amazing how simple basic scripture is manipulated to SERVE a lie

WOW just when I think I've heard it all simple scripture is botched up even more

wine MOCKS when one has too much ...someone would be DECEIVED if they believed they could have a lot of wine and still be COHERENT ...you mock yourself when your brain is inebriated with alcohol

WINE is still an alcoholic beverage no matter how many times misguided "christians" attempt to IMPLY something their false ministers have SOLD them to believe wine "really means" Holy Spirit
---Rhonda on 9/14/10


As a matter of fact, francis, most people DO know their limit.
-Cluny on 9/14/10

Then once again the BIBLE is wrong!
Wine is NOT a mocker, strong drink is NOT raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is---- wise.
---francis on 9/14/10


drunkenness is what is what Christians are to refrain from, not drinking itself. Personally, I do not drink, because I am an alcoholic and cannot handle it. But some can drink one and be fine.

I have a missionary friend who married a French girl in France, and wine was served at the wedding. No problem.
---Trish9863 on 9/14/10


\\Most people think that they know how much alcohol they can drink before they get drunk. the fool themselves. the alcohol makes a fool (mockery) of them.\\

As a matter of fact, francis, most people DO know their limit.

Despite my being the large economy size, I have a very low tolerance for alcohol. That I'm taking many meds that conflict with it doesn't help matters.

Therefore I very seldom drink--but not because it's sinful in itself.

BTW--did you know there are minute traces of alcohol in soft drinks?

And that delicious smell when bread's baking? It's alcohol!
---Cluny on 9/14/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Study


Cluny - You have it WRONG. The wine that makes glad is refuring to the Holy Spirit, NOT acual wine. Also, wine (that Jesus drank) in those days was grape juice, NOT wine. The Scripture in Proverbs is telling you not to drink period.
---Leslie on 9/14/10


Most people think that they know how much alcohol they can drink before they get drunk. the fool themselves. the alcohol makes a fool (mockery) of them.
---francis on 9/14/10


What it's saying is, "Don't get drunk." Not, "Don't drink."

Don't forget the Bible also talks about "Wine that gladdens our hearts." And it doesn't mean unfermented grape juice, either.
---Cluny on 9/14/10


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.