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What Is The Second Death

Please explain what is the second death?

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 ---catherine on 9/15/10
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MarkV: There have been may resurrections recorded in the Bible. In the Old Testament both Elijah and Elisha were used to bring a dead person back to life. In the Gospels Jesus returned life to several dead people. In the Gospel of John it records the resurrection of believers when Christ was resurrected. These are past events. In salvation you are given a new birth not a continuation of the old. The first and second resurrection of prophecy are future. When Christ returns for the Old and New Testament believers the graves will open and they will answer his call. This is what I believe is called the first resurrection. The second is when he calls those saved after the first and calls all the lost of all times.
---Harold on 10/15/10


Harold, I would like to hear you comments on the first resurrection. Do you not believe that when sinners are born of the Spirit they are resurrected from death unto life? We know their bodies have not been glorified yet, but they are alive for all eternity. Do you have some Scripture to indicate I am wrong? It is an honest question to hear what you have to say on the matter.
---MarkV. on 10/15/10


Jesus taught: the road is narrow and there shall be few that find the gate which leads to eternal life. He also taught that the road is broad that leads to damnation. You are on the broad road, if you don't repent, commit adultery, fornication, lie, steal, and lead lives filled with evil. People can shout praise God every Sunday, but if they follow Satan during the week, repent quickly or face the 2nd death. The first death refers to a physical death, where everyone will be resurrected, old and young, male, female, etc. The second death refers to after the judgment, when everyone will be judged according to their works, whether good or evil. Those that lived in evil will be cast out of God's presence for all eternity, or a 2nd death.
---ashley on 10/15/10


MarkV: I do not consider honest questions as criticism. The Jews saved in the end times will recognize the truth of what Christians have been preaching since Christ began his ministry. They will accept Jesus as the messiah that they so long rejected. We do have a different view of the first resurrection, to me it is when Christ returns for his believers who have been waiting his return since he returned to heaven. The Jews will see the results and the Spirit will lead them to the truth.
---Harold on 10/14/10


Harold, I was not critizing your statements only wanted some answers on what you said. Right now I am studying the end times very carefully and getting insights from my pastor who is very good, and other sources that can direct me to where Scripture speaks concerning what they say. I have found out that many times people have a theological bias, and I don't want to be one who closes his mind to the Truth. Some go wrong and defend the wrong and will not hear any Truth spoken to them. I have alot of opinions but from Scripture, and thought maybe you could bring to light other passages, Thanks, I just wanted to make that clear. Your correction on my answer was very good. Peace
---MarkV. on 10/13/10




Harold, on 10/3/10 you stated that Israel was going to be saved at the Second resurrection. And spoke of the promise to them. Are you saying they will be saved at the Second Coming? After the Church (believers) receives their new bodies? Also, are you talking about them been saved without receiving Christ as their Savior? Which would mean that although they have rejected Christ, they will still be saved?
I agree with you on the first resurrection, since a believer is resurrect when he is born again, but is not consumated until his body is glorified at the Second Coming. But the second resurrection is what I was asking about. Maybe you can clear that up, Thanks.
---MarkV. on 10/12/10


Harold, great correction, the saved will be there but not for judgment. For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ. They have already been forgiven. They will be present at the right side of Christ, and for the very good reasons you gave. Great answer, and thanks for reminding me to be careful how I quote my answers. What I meant was they would not be standing before God for judgment. Not a one. Thank you brother, peace.
---MarkV. on 10/11/10


When my husband passed this life, he had a smile on his face. I have always wondered what he saw. I can only imagine he saw heaven,angels, God and Jesus Christ.
---shira3877 on 10/11/10


Those who are saved(born-again) never see death instead of death they passover from physically living to a spiritual state in which they exist with the Lord. You and I see them shut their eyes, and of course grieve because thats only human, but they're closing of the eyes is in fact the opening of them spiritually.
Now to those who are lost they die physically and also spiritually, to be in torment and hell until such time as they are resurrected to stand before the great White throne judgment. After which they will be cast into the lake of five(which possibly could be our natural sun).
---mima on 10/11/10


The Bible plainly teaches that at the final judgment, the Great White Throne Judgment, the saved, sheep, will be on the right side of Christ and the lost, goats, will be on the left. The saved are not there to be judged but to witness the righteousness of God in condemning those that reject him and to know that all the suffering, name calling, and torture the lost put the saved through is being repaid as God promised.
---Harold on 10/11/10




Steven G, sorry to disagree with you but you are wrong. At the "Great White Throne of Judgment" There will be no good people there. Not a one. If there is good people there, Gods word lied. "For I have already charged that all men both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written, None is righteous, no, not one, no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong: No one does good, not even one" Romans 3:9-12. All good people are the children of God, who placed their faith in Christ works on the cross and His resurrection, they go to the Judgment Seat of Christ, where they will get their rewards, and all the bad stuff will be burned.
---MarkV. on 10/11/10


The Second Death implies a "First Death."

A First Death implies that a person will have had lived once and brought back to life again in order to have a Second Death.

Jesus said "all" persons will be resurrected. (Acts 24:15 and John 5:28)

Therefore, all persons will have a "Second Life" (resurrection) in order to be subject to the Second Death.

The Second Death is simply a state/symbol of non-existence. It is also called the Lake of Fire. (Rev 20:14-15)

Anything placed in it no longer exist. Hell and Death and Satan are placed into it. Meaning what? They will cease to exist. (Rev 21:4)
---R._Jerome_Harris on 10/10/10


Lazarus. (whom God helps). Another form of the Hebrew name, Eleazar.

Matthew 15:22-28 we find the expression "...yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."
The Gentile dogs, those that the Jews did not expect to be heir to the promise

Eleazar was to be the heir of all that was Abraham's until the birth of Isaac.
Gen 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
After the birth of Isaac, Eleazar was denied these promises, he was no longer the heir.
But now we see Lazarus (Eleazar, the gentile) the recipient of those promises in Abraham's bosom while the rich man has been lost
---Gina7 on 10/9/10


Jerry, The Story of Lazarus and the Rich Man from LUKE 16 tells what happens at Death. I believe they were real people that existed.
---Gordon on 9/19/10
Luke 16:19-31 is a Parable, designed to teach the promises made to Abraham of a Messiah would be fulfilled in Gentiles, represented by Lazarus (Eleazor) and those who were heirs to promises, The Rich Man (Judah, 1 of 6 brothers by Leah!) would be cast out. This is the true meaning of this Parable. It does not teach heaven and hell. Parable is a fictional story with a moral point
Lazarus. (whom God helps). Another form of the Hebrew name, Eleazar
---Gina7 on 10/9/10


By "the bosom of Abraham" we are to understand the return of Christ, the resurrection of the dead, the establishment of Christ's Kingdom on earth.

Abraham was promised great lands, an earthly inheritance (Gen.17:4-8) but he never received it while alive:
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed, and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith..

So the Bosom of Abraham is the future Kingdom when Christ returns and dead are raised. When the promises that Abraham saw "afar off" are realized.
---Gina7 on 10/9/10


I agree in the most part with what is being said about the 2 resurrections. 1st one for the saints and the Jews that have believed in the Messiah, both before and after Christ. However, in the second not only are the wicked to be brought forth but also the Jews that are brought to the knowledge of Christ after the first rapture. The natural olive tree (Jews) was cut off and the wild olive tree (Gentile Church) grafted in. The Bible promises that in the future the wild (Gentile Church) will be cut off (the 1st rapture) and the natural will be grafted back. God has not forgot His promise to Abraham, Issac, or Jacob.
---Harold on 10/3/10


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francis: "I think this is closer to what i am saying... The second resurrection is for the wicked, those who did not place their faith in Jesus. Again from all generations Adam to Zico."

Not even close to what the bible says. The first resurrection are Christ's people only. These will populate heaven.

The second is for all the other people, both good and bad, and will be judged according to their works. These people never believed in Jesus or never got a chance to know him, but they obeyed God's commandments without knowing them. If they were all wicked, then why judge? These will populate the earth. Remember, there is to be a new heaven and a new earth.
---Steveng on 10/1/10


At the first resurrection Jesus only resurrects his people. At the second resurrection all the other dead are raised according to their works.
---Steveng on 9/29/10
I think this is closer to what i am saying.
The first resurrection is for those who have placed their faith in Jesus, people of all generations from Adam to Zico,
The second resurrection is for the wicked, those who did not place their faith in Jesus. Again from all generations Adam to Zico.
---francis on 10/1/10


I find this a very simple question to answer, but I did not always think so. The first death is the physical death where the mortal body is separated from the forces that keep it alive, brain function, heart beating, breathing. This death all mankind faces, the wages of sin is death and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
The second death is the eternal damnation of the lost because they are separated for ever from Christ. He said I am the way, the truth, and the life... To be separated from Christ is to be separated from his life giving force. The second death is defeated in the new birth through believe in the work of Jesus Christ.
---Harold on 9/30/10


francis, let's see if we are on the same page. At the first resurrection Jesus returns for his people, at the second resurrection the people throughout all of earth's history since the beginning are resurrected.

At the first resurrection Jesus only resurrects his people. At the second resurrection all the other dead are raised according to their works.
---Steveng on 9/29/10


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Steveng on 9/28/10
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

This just proves my point
the rest of the dead did not come to life for 1000 years
and when they came to life they were judged

Sorry but they came alive and were judged and
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
---francis on 9/29/10


francis: "...the dead is this passage refers yto those who were dead for 1000 years."

You are taking the verses out of context. You need to read verses four and six to completely understand what John is saying. The word "But" at the beginning of verse five should clue you in, basic grammar. The "first resurrection" is talking about verse four not verse five. Verse six continues showing the the first resurrection in verse four is the second coming of Christ when the dead in crist shall rise first and the living shall be caught up with the dead. These are the ones that shall not see the second death becasue of their fiath in Jesus and obeying the commandments.
---Steveng on 9/28/10


"And I saw the dead , small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to thier works ."
---Ruben on 9/23/10

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection

I am 100% sure that when he sees " the dead" they are no longer dead but resurrected after 1000 years.

the dead is this passage refers yto those who were dead for 1000 years.
---francis on 9/28/10


I agree with---Gordon on 9/28/10.
---mima on 9/28/10


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Jerry, Death is called "sleep" for that is what the dead physical body looks like it's doing. But, the soul does not remain in a lifeless, non-functioning body....it moves on to it's Eternal Destination. What did the Lord YAHUSHUA tell the thief on the cross? LUKE 23:43: "And YAHUSHUA (JESUS) said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, TODAY shalt thou be with Me in Paradise." That day, when the thief died, and when YAHUSHUA died, they went both to Paradise. They did not go to sleep. The Scriptures say, in EPHESIANS 4:9 and I PETER 3:18-19 "Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also DESCENDED first into the lower parts of the Earth?"..."By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in Prison,..."
---Gordon on 9/28/10


Jerry, Regarding "Immortality": GOD is Immortal from Eternity Past throughout Eternity Future. Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End. GOD is Immortal in and of HIMSELF. Mankind is "immortal" only in the sense that future eternal existence is GIVEN to him by GOD alone. From the time that man's soul is FIRST CREATED, from that point onward, he continues to exist, never to cease from existing. But, it's all from GOD's doing. Man cannot claim "immortality" in and of himself in the Way that GOD does. So, GOD is Immortal in the truest sense. Man is only "immortal" from the day that he is created. That's why Scripture states GOD's Immortality the way it does. This is not just "my opinion", it's TRUTH.
---Gordon on 9/28/10


Gordon: I understand your opinions, but you give no scriptural support. Soul sleep is NOT an Adventist doctrine - it is a Bible doctrine! Did you look up the 40+ scriptures that call death a sleep or an unconscious state? Did you find the scripture that says only God [and not us] is immortal? Can you quote a single scripture that defines a "spirit body"? Remember, the Bible is our only common ground for discussion. So please stick to it, rather than to personal opinions.
---jerry6593 on 9/25/10


Jerry, Those "immortal bodies" to which you agreed will exist...? Those ARE the spirit-bodies. All the human souls in both Heaven and Hell will have immortal spirit-bodies. Those are bodies that will not ever be annihilated.
---Gordon on 9/25/10


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Jerry, To your way of thinking the spirit-body is an oxymoron, thanks to the Adventist doctrine of Soul Sleep. There are things that the Adventists are very right about: The honour and obedience to the 10 Commandments, observation of the LORD's (True) 7th Day Sabbath, living before the LORD in Holiness, etc. But, there's two things that they're not right about, and that is their understanding of what happens to the soul immediately at Death. And, about Eternal Damnation. You are filtering every Verse supporting Eternal Damnation and immediate life-after-death through the Adventist's long-held interpretation, INSTEAD of doing your own research before the LORD. So, you are blinded to these Truths, e'en though you are cemented to think you're not.
---Gordon on 9/24/10


JIM: 'jerry said:"Isn't "spirit body" an oxymoron? Where is it's scriptural support?'

How about this jerry.
Acts 7:59....While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Sorry Jim, but I don't see how receive my "pneuma" means a spirit-body was formed and floated away to heaven. In fact, if you keep reading, you'll see that when Stephen actually died, the Bible records "HE FELL ASLEEP"!!!

The Bible does speak of "immortal bodies" which we'll receive at the resurrection, but there is no such thing as a spirit-body - it's an oxymoron.
---jerry6593 on 9/24/10


Francis, I think what Ruben is trying to convey is that : YOU claim the Scriptures are saying that the Dead will not remember anything (after death). He's pointing out a Verse that declares that, after the death of the unsaved, they will be remembering their past lives on Earth. For, certainly it will be an issue when they're brought up to stand before the LORD on the Day of Judgment.Ruben, Correct me if I'm wrong.
---Gordon on 9/23/10


Francis, And I think that this whole "Life after Death" issue is being made way too complicated. The Lord YAHUSHUA came to Earth and He declared in a little Account about what really is going on after Death. It's right there in LUKE 16. YAHUSHUA is making it plain that people are, indeed, conscious after Death. Those in Heaven are alive and well, and those in Hell are also alive and very well aware of their surroundings and feelings of constant torments. If that weren't so, why would the Lord use such a scenario in His Story? When the Lord would never HINT at a lie, let alone tell one. i.e., IF the dead in Hell were not alive in torments at Death, YAHUSHUA would never have used such a scenario in one of His Stories.
---Gordon on 9/23/10


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Concerning the parable of the Beggar Lazarus and the Rich Man...

Heaven would not be paradise if a person in heaven could look upon the earth and see the terrible things going on. There would be no joy in that person's heart witnessing the evil going-ons in the world. It is written that when a person goes to heaven they shall not remember the things of old, the memories of tribulation.

There are two resurrections coming.
---Steveng on 9/23/10


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

"And I saw the dead , small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to thier works ."

Both verses are from the bible. So I am not sure how one is wrong.
I am not understanding what you are trying to say.
---francis on 9/23/10


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

---francis on 9/23/10

Francis, if that is the cased then Rev 20:12 is wrong:

"And I saw the dead , small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to thier works ."
---Ruben on 9/23/10


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

If this is related to the spiritualy dead, then you have a problem, because the spiritaul living, know that they shall spirtualy die. WRONG

If you are saying that those in heaven ( THE LIVING) will have no memory of the dead, then again you are wrong, because you are also saying that the living in heaven know they shall die.

This next text backs up the claim that those whophysically die, have no memory. NO THOUGHTS = NO MEMORY

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.
---francis on 9/23/10


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Francis, The "dead" is anyone who dies in their sins, without Salvation. The "living" are those who are alive in CHRIST. The Scriptures say, about the dead, that "....the memory of them is forgotten." It doesn't mean the dead will have no memory.... It's saying that the memory of, or the rememberance of those dead will cease by those who are still living. i.e. No one in Heaven will be remembering those who have perished in Hell. GOD is the GOD of the living, not of the dead. The dead "know nothing" in the sense that: all knowledge that they accumulated while on Earth will be USELESS while they are in Hell and the Lake of Fire. For their constant, 24-hour-a-day preoccupation will be their TORMENTS.
---Gordon on 9/23/10


Gordon, the problem is there are toomany text which contradict the possibility that any dead person would have memory, though or speech.

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.
---francis on 9/22/10


Francis, The Story in LUKE 16,about the Beggar Lazarus and the Rich Man, is not just a cute story. It is exactly how things were structured, concerning life after Death, as to how it actually played out when people of the Old Testament and the early New Testament died and passed on. Even if the people in the Story were ficticious people, the setting and the locations were real. Adam, Eve, Able, Seth and Noah went to Paradise, under the Earth. Though it was obviously not called "Abraham's Bosom." That term "Abraham's Bosom" was what the believing descendants of Abraham called Paradise. A term of endearment, of sorts. All this, unless you can show otherwise.
---Gordon on 9/22/10


Consider Job.
Job knew that he would die, and he knew that he would not see God in his spirit but in his flesh at resurrection day.
Same with lazarous.

Job 19:26 And though after my skin [worms] destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another, though my reins be consumed within me.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
---francis on 9/22/10


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Jerry, How do you think that the bodies in Heaven are and will be?. They are spirit beings as well. Just in a different Location (than those in Hell). Now, how are the spirit-bodies in Heaven supposed to enjoy everyday living in Heaven, if they did not have some kind of tangible body. The spirituality of the body makes it everlasting. Able, that is, to live eternally. Spirit-body does not denote an "etherial, airy, inmaterial, lack-of-substance, "nothingness" body. No, it's the opposite! The Spiritual body is more real than the flesh and blood, corruptible body made from clay. We need to start seeing these things in this way. A "new" way from some.
---Gordon on 9/22/10


jerry said:"Isn't "spirit body" an oxymoron? Where is it's scriptural support?

How about this jerry.
Acts 7:59....While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
---JIM on 9/22/10


Jerry, The heart of something is the center of that something. The grave-site plot of ground hardly qualifies as being the CENTER of the Earth. That 6 ft. level of dirt is only the "SKIN" of the Earth, not the "center" or "heart" of the Earth. And, concerning Paradise: Paradise was below, where the sinner's Hell now is. But, since around the Resurrection and Ascension of YAHUSHUA, Paradise was relocated, (for lack of a better term), up into the 3rd Heaven, where sits GOD's Throne and the Holy City of the Saints. So, the O.T. Saints went to Paradise, including John the Baptist and the thief on the cross. And, then they were "relocated" up above. So, that now, all saints go directly to Heaven.
---Gordon on 9/22/10


Gordon: The scriptures you cite (heart of the earth, etc.) merely state that Jesus was in the grave [and dead] and was resurrected on the third day. But what of the points I made below? Any comments on these?

Thus Paradise is in heaven.

Isn't "spirit body" an oxymoron? Where is it's scriptural support?

The Bible speaks of death as a sleep over 40 times. It says that the dead are unconscious, awaiting the resurrection. Surely the weight of this stack is worthy of your consideration!
---jerry6593 on 9/22/10


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Jerry, The following Verses help form part of the Picture: JOHN 2:19 "YAHUSHUA answered and said unto them, 'Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up.'" (Temple=His Body), MATTHEW 12:40 "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH." (the "heart" is the CENTER of something.), EPHESIANS 4:9 "(Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also descended first INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?...)" : I Peter 3:18b-19 "For Christ YAHUSHUA...being put to death in the Flesh, but, quicked (made Alive) by the SPIRIT: By which also He went and preached to the spirits in Prison (in Hell),
---Gordon on 9/21/10


Gordon: Paradise is not under the earth. The Bible says that:

(1) God's throne is in heaven.

(2) The River of Life flows from His throne.

(3) The Tree of Life spans this very river.

(4) The Tree of Life is in Paradise.

Thus Paradise is in heaven. If it were near hell as you posit, then hell's fire would soon be put out by the river.

Isn't "spirit body" an oxymoron? Where is it's scriptural support?

But back to the stacks.... The Bible speaks of death as a sleep over 40 times. It says that the dead are unconscious, awaiting the resurrection. Surely the weight of this stack is worthy of your consideration!
---jerry6593 on 9/21/10


In the 1st resurrection only the born-again Christians are raised to live and reign with Christ for 1,000 years. After the 1,000 years Satan will be loosed again out of his prison for a short time to deceive the nations to battle, and they will surround Jerusalem, and God's fire will come down from heaven and devour them. And the devil will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are, to be tormented for ever. And the sky will be parted and Jesus will be seen upon his great white throne, and all will be resurrected from the dead, and will be judged according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, and all who were not written in the Lamb's Book of Life. This is the 2nd death.
---Eloy on 9/20/10


Since when is a parable not something real as it relates to another truth?
Matthew 13:3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow,
Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree, When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:
---micha9344 on 9/20/10


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---Gordon on 9/20/10
prove your )"Abraham's Bosom" was another Title for Paradise. Paradise was under the Earth, near the sinner's ..
with some scriptures?
Then tell us: Where did Noah, Seth, and Abel, Adam, and eve God when they died?
---francis on 9/20/10


Jerry, To your four replies: 1)"Abraham's Bosom" was another Title for Paradise. Paradise was under the Earth, near the sinner's Hell, both separated by a huge Chasm. Sometime after YAHUSHUA's Resurrection, Paradise was relocated in the Third Heaven. Making Hell larger. 2)But, only by the LORD's discretion. 3)No, not at all. It would not have satisfied the Rich Man's thirst. It would have only made him want more (water), and that, on a regular basis, not possible in Hell. The point is to show how tormentingly hot Hell is. 4)Right. They have "spiritual bodies". With more acute 5 senses. Though alive, the Damned don't have "Life" as those in Heaven do. They are forever alive to suffer eternal torments as Punishment.
---Gordon on 9/20/10


Jerry, And how many Verses would you need that would say the same thing as does JOHN 3:16? One would suffice, to say what it says. I gave you two Scripture references and so, will you not take those Verses and consider them before the LORD? Lay aside, for a bit, the understanding of Damnation as is taught by your Church, and get directly before the LORD and ask HIM whether what I have told you is so. Do some research on your own. The Internet has alot to say about Hell and the lake of Fire. There are lies out there, as well. But, if you will be diligent to want the real Truth about Damnation, the LORD will lead you to it. But, you have got to be open to it, for it is a hard Truth to have to swallow. But, it is the Truth, nonetheless.
---Gordon on 9/20/10


Gordon: That's not a very big stack. I consider the story of the rich man and Lazarus to be a parable, whereas you consider it literal. If it is indeed literal as you suggest, then:

(1) All the billions of dead people now reside on one dead man's chest.

(2) There is open communication and physical contact between heaven and hell.

(3) A man's burning thirst is quenchable by one drop.

(4) Supposedly spirit entities apparently now have physical bodies (prior to the resurrection) since they can see, feel pain, thirst, etc.

The burning hell you describe was Gehenna, the burning garbage dump outside Jerusalem, which Jesus used figuratively as a descriptor of the lake of fire to come.
---jerry6593 on 9/20/10


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Jerry, The Story of Lazarus and the Rich Man from LUKE 16 tells what happens at Death. I believe they were real people that existed. Even IF they were fictional people, the experiences they went through there are not fictional. The places they were at, after they died, and the conditions, the sensations and feelings they were experiencing in those places were not fictional, but real and that was the LORD's main point. In MARK 9:43-48 the Lord tells us what to expect after Death if we die in our sins. In Hell are Fires that will not be quenched. Worms that will gnaw on you and there will be utter darkness (the darkness is so thick, the fires cannot illuminate that place), and there will be crying and screaming (weeping and gnashing of teeth).
---Gordon on 9/19/10


Gordon: I appreciate your candor an honest approach to this discussion. I believe that we both agree that the Bible alone is the sole credible athority on the correct understanding of this (and any other religious) topic. It is my further understanding, as I hope it is yours, that the totality of the Bible's teaching on a given subject is to be employed in understanding rather than an isolated text or two (c.f. Isa 28:10).

With this in mind, I challenge you to search the entire Bible from Gen to Rev and note all scriptures that imply that the state of the human mind in death is an unconscious sleep, and in another stack, those that imply immortality in death. Then weigh the two stacks on a balance of meaning. I await your result.
---jerry6593 on 9/19/10


"For the wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23

The first lie Satan gave Eve was that death was not really death, but living on in an exalted state of existence "Ye shall not surely die.."

God means what he says. The wages of sin is death, ceasing to exist

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezek 18:20 but the devil comes behind and says "Oh this does not actually mean that you will really die, it only means spiritual death"

The Bible is clear

Sin = Death
Jesus = Eternal Life

"The Gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" Rom 6:23

Sin caused the death of Jesus to pay the price of our sins. Did Jesus not actually die? Yes he did
---Gina7 on 9/18/10


Jerry6593, You should believe the Truth! I'm telling you with all honesty that the Seventh-Day Adventists have their understanding of Damnation all wrong. They are believing what the Church itself has believed, passed down from generation to generation, rather than believing what the Scriptures really actually say. I believe in observing the 7th Day Sabbath, but, I don't attend the Adventist Church ONLY for this very reason. They misunderstand, and therefore, misinterpret the Scriptures regarding Eternal Damnation. As long as you choose to stick to your religious-man's/Adventist interpretation, you will not see the Truth, 'though you think you already do. :-(
---Gordon on 9/18/10


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Jerry, The death of the soul is not like the death of the physical body. Once the physical body stops functioning, for whatever reason, the soul (spirit) instantly leaves the dead corpse and passes on to it's final Destination, Heaven or Hell with the Lake of Fire. Though the soul continues to be "alive" in Hell, it is not "living real Life, the good and blessed Life" as GOD promises to those who follow HIM. Those in Hell are paying for their own sins with torments, since they refused the Price YAHUSHUA paid for them on the Cross. And, btw, I am not trying to "attack" the Adventists, and that, out of Denominational bias. I am not that way. I am merely pointing out the thing they are teaching that is in error.
---Gordon on 9/18/10


Jerry, the sinner is separated from God and that is spiritual death. That does not mean that the spirit ceases to exist. You are confusing the Biblical meaning of words.
---Mike on 9/18/10


Gordon: "The soul never dies"

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Who should I believe? You or God?
---jerry6593 on 9/18/10


Samuel, Please RE-READ my comment. I did not say what you thought I said. Here's how it works: When a person dies, their soul leaves the physical body. The physical body is buried in the ground and decays. The unsaved person's soul goes straight to Hell to remain there until GOD recomposes their fleshly body and reunites it with their soul to stand before HIM on Judgment Day, to be sentenced to the everlasting Lake of Fire. The soul never dies, but, for those in Hell, it can corrode and suffer torments. The soul is in the form of the physical body and has all of it's 5 senses, more acutely, too, as it resides in Hell temporarily. On Judgment Day the reunited body and soul will both be cast into the Lake of Fire to be destroyed in Torments.
---Gordon on 9/18/10


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Samuel, When a person dies in their sins, without Salvation, they are then already condemned in their sins. Read JOHN 3:18! GOD says that without YAHUSHUA (JESUS), a person, even while alive on Earth, is condemned already for they are still in their sins, NOT SAVED. When they die in that unsaved condition there is then no second chances. They are in eternity, in their sins, so they go to the place where the unsaved go at Death, to Hell. Hell is only temporary until they are brought up before GOD on Judgment Day. Judgment Day is not for deciding if a person goes to Heaven or Hell, for that's decided by the time a person dies! Judgment Day is for GOD to show them why they are going to the Lake of Fire and to what degree their Punishment will be.
---Gordon on 9/17/10


So Gordan according to your statment GOD starts punishing people before He judges them guilty. He starts torturing them even though they have not stood in the day of judgement.

Now JESUS said. Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

But According to what you say the body does not go to hell. It is placed in the grave while the soul goes to hell. Could you please explain how you get this? Please give me scripture support for you statments.
---Samuel on 9/17/10


The Second Death is the Lake of Fire. Hell and the Lake of Fire are two separate places. When someone dies in their sins (an unbeliever, etc.) that is their "first Death", their first experience, as it were, with death. These, at their "first Death", go directly to Hell. Hell is the temporary holding cell of torments for the unredeemed while they are awaiting to stand directly before GOD on Judgment Day. Then, at Judgment Day, they are resurrected to stand before GOD and then they are cast into the Lake of Fire, which will be their second experience at death, the "Second Death".
---Gordon on 9/17/10


Catherine,In the words of Jesus."Fear not them which 'kill the body' [The first death], but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to 'destroy' (Apollymi-to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to) 'both soul and body' in 'hell' (The lake of fire)-[The second death]". Mat 10:28
"What is the second death?" The destruction of both soul and body.
---joseph on 9/17/10


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the second death is when God destroys ALL wickedness where there is NO MORE.. It ceases to exist from memory, wiped out, anilated.. destroyed & only Gods children will remain on a new earth & in the new heavens...
---candice on 9/16/10


The term second death is not an expression or a metaphor.The phrase can be taken literal .The term second death and hell are incompatible.One cannot be conscious in hell who may experience a second death=death is death-dead is dead.One cannot be spoken of as being alive while a second death was pronounced upon the personality.Second death personalities no longer have their name in the book of life.It has been erased-after the records are read and the judgement prounounced .Second death personalities do not ever again exist in consciousness or personality again.Second death is when a person ceases to exist forever.There are only 2 deaths not 3 so man is judged while he now sleeps.
---earl on 9/15/10


Eternal separation from God. It involves being thrown into the "Lake of fire". The first death would be physical death [Revelation 20:6].
---catherne on 9/15/10


Death in the spiritual sense is seperation from God. Jesus spoke of lowt people who were alive at the time he was as being "dead". Paul speaks of the unsaved as being "dead in trespasses and sins."

The second death is the ultimate, final, no second chances seperation from God:
Revelation 20:14, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
---Bruce5656 on 9/15/10


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The second death is ETERNAL death or eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire (Hell), for those that are not saved. The first death then would be when we die in the body and go to the grave, for both saved and unsaved.
---Leslie on 9/15/10


Being cast into Hell.

Rev 20:14, 21:8

Oh, that's right. You said, "I don't need no Scripture."
---Cluny on 9/15/10


we are alive here on earth with both soul and body, but when you die your natural body is buried(1st life and 1st death) but your soul is coming out of that body and it's going to its eternal destination.If you are truly saved your soul is going to the third heaven but if not your soul is going to the lake of fire for eternal damnation.(eternal life, and 2nd death) read Rev.21:8 & Rev.20:13-14...
---Xavier on 9/15/10


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