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Saved Without Gift Of Spirit

Can one be saved without the Gift of the Holy Spirit?

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 ---David on 9/18/10
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Mark,
I am sorry you took my remarks as sarcasm. I did not intend it as such. Rather to put as concisely as possible that most of Calvin's TULIP is wrong and indefensible.

You once asked me of my background. I do not like to talk about myself here but I will tell you I was saved as a child and have been a student of Scripture for all of my adolescent and adult life (I am 50+). I have studied theology formaly, have pastored and sat in the pew. I have heard all the arguments for predestination, eternal security, limited atonement. irresistible grace etc and find them to be an incorrect understanding of God's grace and mercy and counter to the whole of the message of God's work.
---Bruce5656 on 9/28/10


Kathr, you said,
"MarkV states that only those who have been taught of the Father can come to Jesus? John 6"
You can find more things interesting if you read your Bible. I spoke from Scripture. I will write it again from Scripture if you don't have a Bible.
I will began in verse 37 of John 6,
" All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out" How is that for starters? Now go on reading till you get to v. 45,
"It is written in the prophets, "And they shall all be taught by God." Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me"
Now that is news to you, but not news to me. It is written.
---MarkV. on 9/28/10


We can never do enough good things to earn salvation,it only comes through belief in Jesus,only begotten son of God. That doen't mean once we come to Jesus and repent of our sins we can continue to act like the sinners in the world. Children look or act like their parents,when we come to God we must take on the look and actions of our example Jesus who acted like his Father. Our hearts must become righteous,obedient to God,filled with the love of God,and being full of love we let it spill out to the world around us. That's why we do good works in life,not for salvation but for those stars in our crowns,as the old timers used to say. Our works become treasures we scatter to bless the world around us. Love is generous.
---Darlene_1 on 9/28/10


Noah preached for what 120-125 years WARNING of the wrath to come!

MarkV states that only those who have been taught of the Father can come to Jesus? John 6 I find this very interesting. MarkV claims that God himself taught MarkV (WHAT) in order for him to come to Jesus. So MarkV states God has communicates personally with reprobate depraved sinners first.

MarkV, please let us know what, when where and HOW God the Father approached you, what He taught you, before you came to Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/28/10


Bruce, I thought you were a different, one who would read the whole context of 2 Peter, as a good desciple of Christ, and find out what the writer said in 2:4-9, especially in v. 9, where He said, "Then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment," which is found before he made those statments in 3:9. Also how He brought judgment in Noah's time to the ungodly, and here you say that He is not willing that any should parish, a contradiction, instead you give me a sarcastic remarks about the tulip, to incite more trouble with the Word. I can see you are no different then the rest of those who reject Scripture. Thank you very much for answering.
---MarkV. on 9/28/10




Taking the whole of Scripture into account, I believe that we can do nothing to "earn" salvation.
---Donna66 on 9/27/10

No?
(Romans 2:6-7)
"God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."

(1 Peter 1:22)
"Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth."

(Matthew 16:27)
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

And many, many more.
---David on 9/28/10


David ---I, too, take the Bible as it is written. But single verses taken at face value may SEEM to contradict, when actually they do not. God's Word is consistant.

Taking the whole of Scripture into account, I believe that we can do nothing to "earn" salvation. Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,

Salvation brings some responsibilities. And fulfilling these responsibilities only proves that we have faith, but does not bring salvation. Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
---Donna66 on 9/27/10


//Mark, You can make the scriptures say anything you want. In the end, the TULIP wilts.// ---Bruce5656

Indeed it does. Calvinism simply requires way to much speculation to fill in the gaps.

Its the same as saying that Genesis 6:3 is speaking of fallen angels (which I personally believe). that belief also requires a lot of speculation as well for which reason I am not able to say it is absolute truth, nor would I condemn anyone who disagrees with me.

Some of us just lack the humility to admit we dont have ALL the answers.
---JackB on 9/27/10


Not all believers received the same gifts. The gifts are given to enable his people to accomplish the work he has called them to. Before he will you to represent the kingdom you must be a part of the kingdom. To be a part of the kingdom you must be saved. First salvation, much later what ever gift he has for you. Are the lost some times used of God, of course, but they do it because they are made to do so, not because of God's love.
---Harold on 9/27/10


---Darlene the tree will grow the way the twig is bent.

It is their training they are completely lacking in understand what the Scripture say.
---mima on 9/27/10




Mark,

You can make the scriptures say anything you want. In the end, the TULIP wilts.
---Bruce5656 on 9/27/10


No

we need the Holy Spirit to help us fighting satan.

Ephesians 6:12 says:"For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places."
---Patrick on 9/27/10


There is no scripture stating that we are made alive TO Christ.


However once we are saved, baptized into HIS DEATH and raised up together WITH HIM a NEW CREATURE, for the purpose of the POWER OF SIN to be broken in us...we are to:


Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Alive here means SAVED, Eternal life, Born Again.


otherwise in MarkV's definition ALL would be then made ALIVE TO CHRIST to believe on him.

So what is it MarkV??
---kathr4453 on 9/27/10


Yes. What I shall never understand is why any child of God would refuse and dismiss the importance of the Gift of the Holy Ghost when Christ wanted them to receive Him. John 14:16,26 And I shall pray the Father and He shall give you another comforter,-. But the Comforter,which is the Holy Ghost,-. Acts 1:4,5 And being assembled together with them commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem,but wait for the promise of the Father,which saith He(Jesus),you have heard of me. For John truely baptized with water,but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues,.Don't look at people,how they do,look to God.
---Darlene_1 on 9/27/10


Psalm 86:5
For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive, and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.

Psalm 13:5
But I have trusted in thy mercy, my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation.


This is what scripture says happens to us!!
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,
---kathr4453 on 9/27/10


Bruce, the passages are true but the last one you interpreted wrong. 2 Peter 3:9. Most people who believe in free will give that one out of context.
The passages are for the beloved, (v.8) the saved, "us" the "elect" the people of God. He waits for them to be saved. God has an immense capacity for patience before He breaks forth in judgment (v.15) God indures endless blasphemies against His name, along with rebellion, murders and ongoing breaking of His law, waiting patiently while He is calling and redeeming His own. Not willing that "Any" must refer to those whom the Lord has chosen and will call to complete the redeemed since the whole passage is about God's destroying the wicked.
---MarkV. on 9/27/10


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Bruce 2 : You also said,
"MarkV, Rom 3:11, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." That would be an all inclusive "none" including any so called "elect"."
That is true. When a person is born and is one of the elect, he doesn't understand either, he is lost just like the rest. He has no idea he was chosen by God. Just because he was one of the elect's does not mean he is born understanding, seeking God, he is a sinner just like the rest. He has to be born of the Spirit. He has to believe in Christ by faith. But God who is rich in mercy because of His great love for "us" made us alive to Christ. Many are still coming. Some are not yet born.
---MarkV. on 9/27/10


//How can you love someone whom you hate? "We love because He first loved us"//

How do you love or hate someone that you dont even know? You cant.
Nor can you love someone that you are terrified of.

You can SAY you love someone in a position of power of over because you are afraid of what theyll do to you if you claim you dont love them, but thats not a genuine love.

A real love for God only comes after we examine the life of Christ and see God for who He really is: the compassionate, loving Father who doesnt just want to punish us for disobedience, but would rather forgive and restore us to the glory He originally intended for us.
---JackB on 9/27/10


//So MarkV says God first saved him, to SEE, then unsaved him to beg for salvation only to be saved AGAIN?

What a mess!// -- Kathr4453

Thats exactly how I feel. Thats why Ive askedg him WHEN he thinks a man is born of the Spirit. Because he claims you have to be born of the Spirit first to even understand the gospel of Christ and believe it. Which suggests that God has forgiven us before we even hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is certainly not scriptural.
---JackB on 9/27/10


1 Peter 1
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

MarkV a question. You stated on another blog that Jews at Pentecost were not saved as YOU are. However those JEWS saved at Pentecost did not receive the Holy Spirit until AFTER salvation, and guess what THEY ARE THE ELECT!!
---kathr4453 on 9/27/10


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MarkV,
"Rom 3:11, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
That would be an all inclusive "none" including any so called "elect".

Jesus said John 6:44, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..."

There is a general "drawing"
Rev 22:17, "And the Spirit...say(s), Come.. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

Because 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is... longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
---Bruce5656 on 9/27/10


Kathr, you said,
"JackB, what I find confusing about MarkV's salvation is that he had to beg God to forgive him. He had to WORK for his salvation."

No Kathr, I beg for forgiveness because I realized I had sinned against God. I was convicted by the Spirit of my sinned before I begged for forgiveness. I was not convicted after I confessed Christ as my Savior, it was before. Without that Conviction, I would have never realized my sin. Salvation is not one Act, it is a gift of God to those who believe by faith. It is also a promise of eternal life. Salvation is also from the wrath of God, If you understood the difference between the Holy Spirit bringing you to life and Salvation you would know the Truth.
---MarkV. on 9/27/10


JackB, what I find confusing about MarkV's salvation is that he had to beg God to forgive him. He had to WORK for his salvation.

Now if one claims they have to be saved first to see, what EXACTLY did MarkV SEE to believe?

If MarkV SAW that in God's MERCY He sent His Son to die his sin...then why did he beg to be forgiven AKA salvation....the Elect BELIEVE don't they that only THEIR SIN was forgiven because they were given some special gift TO BELIEVE .

So MarkV says God first saved him, to SEE, then unsaved him to beg for salvation only to be saved AGAIN?

What a mess!
---kathr4453 on 9/27/10


Jack, I explained it as clearly as I could. The reason you question everything is because you have this idea that a lost person seeks God for forgiveness while he is in rebellion to Him. He is is darkness doing the desires of the his father. But in that condition they will never receive Christ as their Savior. They need a new heart, eyes to see, ears to hear and a heart to perceive the truth of the gospel of Christ. They don't have it while dead in sin. They need Spiritual life. That's why Scripture say's no one seeks of God. No one Jack. Open your own eyes to the Truth. How can you love someone whom you hate? "We love because He first loved us" We were not chosen because we were good, but in order that we might be good.
---MarkV. on 9/27/10


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And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
---Donna66 on 9/26/10

Looks like a simple teaching to me.
Dead means Dead.
Sin is certainly not righteousness.

Donna
I must tell you that the reason I take the Bible as it is written, is because my experience, is as the Bible is written.
Before I was born of God, I also looked for a different meaning of these scriptures.

The single greatest reason that many believers have not had this experience of the removal of sin(1John 3:5) is because they don't believe the clearly written teachings of Jesus Christ.

They believe in him, but not what he taught, because it doesn't match their experience.
---David on 9/27/10


1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

No one can understand his need for Jesus unless the Spirit of God reveals it to him.
The Holy Spirit is, of necessity, the initiator.


But the "gift of the Spirit" is given AFTER one has opened his heart to Jesus and received Him as Savior.

Rom 8:9-10 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
---Donna66 on 9/26/10


Josef < > joseph
---aka on 9/26/10


David I have absolutely no idea what brought you to that conclusion, but I have no denominational affiliation, although I have nothing against any of them.
---Josef on 9/26/10

My mistake, I thought I had read somewhere that you were.
I have no problem with any of them either.
If they have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, I see them as Brother's and Sister's.
---David on 9/26/10


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So then what youre saying Mark, is that when a person is born of the Spirit they start seeking God, which occurs before they accept Christ as their Savior.

Jesus said unless we are born of water AND of the Spirit we cannot see the kingdom of God.

Are you suggesting that when a person is born of the Spirit they have salvation before even hearing the gospel of Christ?

Because thats not what my Bible says
---JackB on 9/26/10


"You are a JW I am not, and even though we are not on the same page, we do share in alot of the same truth's."
David I have absolutely no idea what brought you to that conclusion, but I have no denominational affiliation, although I have nothing against any of them.
---Josef on 9/26/10


"Josef
And I take no credit for Mine."
David I did not intend to imply that you did.
Forgive me if my response to you came across in that way.
---Josef on 9/25/10

Josef
No apology is needed, my friend.
I was not offended by the remark.
You are a JW I am not, and even though we are not on the same page, we do share in alot of the same truth's.
---David on 9/26/10


Oh, how I wish that some of these hypocrites would could get a-hold of this, and the answer is a resounding, NO!
---catherine on 9/26/10


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Jack, you asked,
"Mark, At what point in the man's life is he "born of the Spirit"?
When God gives you life as I said, it can come at any time. He is the Resurrection and the life.
If you are asking, "At what time does a believer realize he is born of the Spirit?"
The answer is, "When he begins to seek after God for salvation" For no one lost seeks after God. When this supernatural act of God happens is, when a person hears the gospel Truth and believes it by faith. It gives evidence faith has come, and a new heart has been given by God, which can perceive the gospel as Truth, eyes to see and ears to hear, and a heart that realizes he has sinned against a Holy God.
---MarkV. on 9/26/10


"Josef
And I take no credit for Mine."
David I did not intend to imply that you did.
Forgive me if my response to you came across in that way.
---Josef on 9/25/10


Mark,

At what point in the man's life is he "born of the Spirit"?
---JackB on 9/25/10


Jack 2 continue:
Regeneration involves an essential change of character. As a result of the change, the person passes from a state of unbelief to one of saving faith, not by any process of research or argument, but of inward experience. Just as our physical birth, it came as a sovereign gift. In rebirth it is a spiritual gift of God. Each occured without any exercise of our own power, and even without our consent being asked. The born again Christian comes to understand that God is in reality "The author and perfecter of his faith" Heb. 12:2. Just as Lazarus was first called and breathed and ate, so the soul dead in sin is first transfered to spiritual life and then exercise faith and repentance and does good works.
---MarkV. on 9/25/10


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Jack, you said,
"The only problem is Mark, is that you automatically think that means a man will accept Christ once his eyes are opened to Him. Those who do not wish to repent will not accept Him."
Jack, when a person is dead, he cannot respond to anything. Take the case of Lazarus, he was dead four days. Could not see, hear, or breath. He could not make himself alive. When Jesus called Lazarus from the dead, did Lazarus say, "no, I want to stay dead" and refuse being brought back to life? When God speaks, things happen instantly. No resurrection or eternal life exist outside of the Son of God. Time is no barrier to the One who has the power of resurrection and life, for He can give life at any time.
---MarkV. on 9/25/10


Ok Mark, I have a question.


At what point in the man's life is he "born of the Spirit"?
---JackB on 9/25/10


//Jack, that is what born of the Spirit means. The act of God by grace to make us spiritually alive to Christ.//

The only problem is Mark, is that you automatically think that means a man will accept Christ once his eyes are opened to Him. Those who do not wish to repent will not accept Him. They dont WANT their sin removed. They like it too much.

You should just rewrite the Bible to say these simple words:

"God might love you. He might not. Wait to see what God is going to do with you because you have no choice in the matter. The End."
---JackB on 9/25/10


Jack 2: Even the mind was corrupted. There was no way they could come to Christ. They were under the spirit who works in the sons of disobedience, the lost. But hear what he says then,
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us" Here he is talking about the ones who are saved, (the us). Even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).
Jack, that is what born of the Spirit means. The act of God by grace to make us spiritually alive to Christ.
Indwelled by the Spirit is what happens after we verbably commit our lives to Christ. Because we are now able to see, hear, and perscieve the Gospel of our salvation.
---MarkV. on 9/25/10


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David consider Jesus, He took no credit for the 'works'.
---Josef on 9/24/10

Josef
And I take no credit for Mine.
Without the Grace of God I would still be a sinner.
It is the evil desire in man that causes sin, a desire that comes from Satan.

To defeat sin within us, we must defeat Satan.
It is impossible for any man,(except Jesus), to defeat Satan, but it is not impossible for God.
If we walk in the Holy Spirit of God we put to death the fleshly desire of the sinful nature.

If you remove the evil desire(sin) from a man's heart, you remove the sin, for it is that desire that causes you to sin.
---David on 9/25/10


Jack, don't confused what "Born of the Spirit" means and what "indwelled by the Spirit" means. Born of the Spirit is when you were lost, you were dead, spiritually dead to all that is of God, and separated from God. Eph. 1:1 says, "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins" They could not come to Christ on their own will Eph. 1:2 says, "in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" goes on to say "doing the lust of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind and were by nature children of Wrath"
---MarkV. on 9/25/10


//Jack, Who are the people that repent? Those who have been convicted by the Holy Spirit that they have rebelled against God. If they don't repent, it gives evidence they were never convicted, and if never convicted? they were not born of the Spirit//- MarkV

Born of the Spirit before accepting Christ?

Ive already shown you scripture specifically stating (by the Holy Ghost) WHEN he enters a mans heart. We receive the Him AFTER believing in Christ and AFTER the adoption of sons has already taken place.

There is no rebirth before the Spirit of God renews us and that is occurs AFTER a man is cleansed by the blood of Christ.

Where is your scripture stating a man is reborn before Christ?
---JackB on 9/24/10


Shawn, my statement was a response to Mark's in that he believes repentance is a result of salvation and not a requirement for it. Just because the Spirit speaks to a man's heart and convincts him of sin does not mean that man is 'born again'. He must accept the living Savior into his heart (via his Spirit) for that regeneration to begin.

I gave him the very words of Christ showing that repentance IS required to NOT perish.
---JackB on 9/24/10


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Joseph, I too believe you gave a great answer brother. You explained it very well. You touched all the points. Amen.
---MarkV. on 9/24/10


-- Josef :

Amen ~ Brother ~ Amen, Very well shared !!!

it is important not to confuse 'actions' -the process or state of acting, or of being active- with 'works' -as that which is actually being accomplished.

Concerning the things of the Spirit, it is only in Him, that we live, move and have our being.

David consider Jesus, He took no credit for the 'works' -as in the things He accomplished- but rather readily admitted that "I do nothing of Myself, the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works."---Josef on 9/24/10
---Shawn.M.T on 9/24/10


Re: David,s response on 9/22
David I did not discount the verse you referenced, I simply placed it in perspective. Neither did I miss the point that you were tying to make, your point was that actions are necessary on our part. With that I agree, however, it is important not to confuse 'actions' -the process or state of acting, or of being active- with 'works' -as that which is actually being accomplished. Concerning the things of the Spirit, it is only in Him, that we live, move and have our being.
David consider Jesus, He took no credit for the 'works' -as in the things He accomplished- but rather readily admitted that "I do nothing of Myself, the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works."
---Josef on 9/24/10


Jack, Who are the people that repent? Those who have been convicted by the Holy Spirit that they have rebelled against God. If they don't repent, it gives evidence they were never convicted, and if never convicted? they were not born of the Spirit. The lost do not confess to God, they do not believe in Him or seek Him. Your problem is in understanding the works of salvation. They are all of God. But you insisted they come from the free will of men. That is your hangup. Onced sealed by the Spirit no one is unsealed. He says,'"I tell you, no, but unless you repent you will all likewise perish"
They perish because they will not repent, they have no conviction from the Spirit of their rebellion against a Holy and just God.
---MarkV. on 9/23/10


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-- JackB :

Those that are saved dont "perish" right?---JackB on 9/22/10

Brother are you implying that those who are Sealed with the earnestness of our inheritance(the Holy Spirit) until the redemption of the purchased possession of Salvation, aren't going to physically die/perish or are you mocking someone??
---Shawn.M.T on 9/22/10


//Only those who believe the gospel by faith, "are required" to repent and be baptize. It is a requirement, not the means of salvation.//

Mark, you can argue with Christ about that one. Arent you supposed to know the God of scripture better than anyone here?

Luke 13:1-5

There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish



Those that are saved dont "perish" right?
---JackB on 9/22/10


David, as I said to you, you take a passage at face value and contradict the word of God by doing so. ---MarkV. on 9/22/10

Show me this contradiction, as per the teaching of Jesus Christ.
---David on 9/22/10


David, as I said to you, you take a passage at face value and contradict the word of God by doing so. You gave Acts 2:38 as your proof that works have to be done in order to be saved when Peter told them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
That passage is true as long as you give the context. Peter was preaching the gospel about Christ. Verse 37 says, when they heard the gospel "they were cut to the heart." The Grk word means "cut" or "pierce" or "stab" and thus denotes something sudden and unexpected. In grief, remorse, and intense spiritual conviction by the Holy Spirit, they then ask "what should we do?" And Peter told them to repent and be baptized.
---MarkV. on 9/22/10


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David 2:

Only those who believe the gospel by faith, "are required" to repent and be baptize. It is a requirement, not the means of salvation. "For the remission of sins" translated "because" of the remissions of sins. Every believer enjoys the complete remission of sins (Matt. 26:28, Luke 24:47, Eph. 1:7, Col. 2:13, 1 John 2:12).
So Shawn is right, It is a requirement after a person has believed the gospel through faith.
What you are doing is taking a passage and giving it a new meaning by deliberately ommiting the context.
---MarkV. on 9/22/10


It's apparent that you do not believe one can be saved without the Holy Spirit, but you contradict everyone who believes as you do. Why is that ??
---Shawn.M.T on 9/21/10

Shawn
They don't believe as I do.
Many of them believe that works has nothing to do with Salvation and I do.
I wanted to highlight (Acts 2:38) hoping that they would see that if one needed to Repent and be Baptized in order to receive the Holy spirit, works plays a role in their Salvation.

However they discounted the verse, so they missed the point that I was trying to make.
Thanks for the Question Brother.
---David on 9/22/10


We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ only. At the time that we accept Jesus as Lord and Savour, the Holy Spirit takes up residency in us. People get confused about this "Gift of the Holy Spirit" and its importance. Corinthians clearly states that there are many "Manifestations" of the Holy Spirit. Each has different and varying gifts or "manifestations". Even Paul stated "Not all speak in tongues"...and "I would that you all speak in tongues even as I but all do not". We are to pray for the gift of Prophecy not tongues.
---jody on 9/21/10


-- David :

Brother, Don't confuse & mix-up a "requirement" to receive a Gift with the "definition" itself of receiving the Gift !!!

Everyone is given Forgiveness(Luke 29:34)... it's just that not everyone by definition has chosen to receive Forgiveness. Just as everyone has been given the Choice of Life(Deu.30:19)... but not everyone by definition has chosen to receive God's Life Sealed with the Promise of the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

David, What's your reason for asking the Blog Question... It's apparent that you do not believe one can be saved without the Holy Spirit, but you contradict everyone who believes as you do. Why is that ??
---Shawn.M.T on 9/21/10


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"Josef
If one can not be saved without the Gift of the Holy Spirit, and we need to do something to receive this Gift(Acts 2:38), then how can one say that works plays no part in salvation?"---David on 9/19/10
Works play a vital part in salvation, however, it is the "work of God".
For it is "Godly sorrow" or a 'God induced sorrow' that leads us to repentance. 2Cor. 7:10>Rom.2:4
It is He who works in us 'both to will and to do' His good pleasure.
It is He that gives to us "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth". 2Tim.:25
Even our ability to believe is "the work of God". (John 6:29)
The believer only only "work" or 'labour' is to enter into His rest. Hbr 4:11
---Josef on 9/21/10


There is nothing you can do to merit this gift or it wouldn't be a gift. The ONLY requirement is you be a Christian, which is salvation through Jesus Christ.
---wivv on 9/20/10

If there is a requirement to receive the gift than the gift has to be merited.
Else, everyone would be given the Gift.
---David on 9/21/10


Typo correction.
The last line should read "The believer's only "work" or 'labour'... "
I know there will be those who will reprove this statement, and base that reproof on Phl 2:12.
However that verse should be considered as a warning against that attempt, rather than an admonishment for it, as clarified by the verse that follows it.
Salvation is the work of the Father, through His Son. That work was finished, it is for the believer to acknowledge that finished work. To willingly confess with his/her mouth, that Jesus is Lord of our salvation, and to rely on, adhere to, trust in, and depend upon Him and the fact that the Father Has raise Him from the dead, that we too may be raised, in Him.
---Josef on 9/21/10


Mima ... can you revisit this blog and answer Tommy's very relevant question
//Which "Gift of the Holy Spirit" are you speaking of?//
---Pedant on 9/20/10


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Every Christian has at least one gift of the Spirit. There is nothing you can do to merit this gift or it wouldn't be a gift. The ONLY requirement is you be a Christian, which is salvation through Jesus Christ.
---wivv on 9/20/10


The gift of the the Holy Spirit is baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evedince of speaking in tongues. Salvation is a different event than the baptism of the Holy Spirit. 1st you MUST be saved, which is the Holy Spirit comes to live IN you. Then you can be baptized with the Holy Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit comes UPON you. These two are two different events, but you can NOT have the baptism of the Holy Spirit without first being saved.
---Leslie on 9/20/10


Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
John 7:39a (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive...
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
---micha9344 on 9/20/10


-- David :

No !!!


--- Micha :

Acts 10:44-47 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, b/c that on the Gentiles also was poured out the Gift of the Holy Ghost... ---Micha9344 on 9/19/10

Sister, Amen.... After that we Heard & Believed the Word of Truth, the gospel of our Salvation : the Gift of the Holy Spirit is the promise upon which we're Sealed as the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession of Salvation. Eph. 1:13-14

Grace Unto You Both & Peace Be Multiplied
---ShawnM.T. on 9/19/10


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No, for mental ascent is insufficient. Jesus said: "Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a person be born-again, that one cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Now if any person have not the Spirit from Christ, he is none of his." Jn.3:3-5+ Rm.8:9.
---Eloy on 9/20/10


Acts 10:44-47
---micha9344 on 9/19/10

Excellent argument Micha!!!
But I believe they did meet the requirements of (Acts 2:38).
Very hard for me to prove, but I believe that these people were those who were baptized before Christ ascended into Heaven.
Those who were of John's baptism.
Read (Acts 8:16)KJV
---David on 9/20/10


Acts 10:44-47 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
---micha9344 on 9/19/10


"Can one be saved without the Gift of the Holy Spirit?" No.

For it is "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us."
---Josef on 9/19/10


Josef
If one can not be saved without the Gift of the Holy Spirit, and we need to do something to receive this Gift(Acts 2:38), then how can one say that works plays no part in salvation?


---David on 9/19/10


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Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8
Rom 10:9!
---TheSeg on 9/19/10


"Can one be saved without the Gift of the Holy Spirit?" No.
In the words of Jesus, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
For it is "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit."
---Josef on 9/19/10


iam not sure I understand your question.conviction is what the spirit does,repentence is what we choose.to be saved the spirit must convict,and we must choose.
---tom2 on 9/19/10


There is no salvation(state of being saved) withOUT the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
---mima on 9/18/10

Mima
If you believe this, then do you believe that we must do what it says in (Acts 2:38) to receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit?

By the way Mima, emotions are hard to display on these posts, but I want you to know that when I disagree with you and others who disagree with me, I do so out of my love for you.
I can clearly see the love you and others have for God and for this reason I have a great deal of respect for you and them.
---David on 9/19/10


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There is no salvation(state of being saved) withOUT the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
---mima on 9/18/10


Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock, and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
Luk 8:7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold...

Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

miraculous signs/wondeers are good, but without fruit, there is no salvation.
---aka on 9/18/10


Which "Gift of the Holy Spirit" are you speaking of? For anyone who IS saved, the Holy Spirit has granted the gift of drawing(and no I'm NOT talking about art). The Bible teaches that none of us can call on or seek out God in our natural state.
---tommy3007 on 9/18/10


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