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How To Pray In The Bible

Most people believe the LORDS PRAYER is found in Matthew 6:5-13. Is this the LORDS PRAYER, or is this Jesus teaching His Disciples how to pray?

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 ---Rob on 9/21/10
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It is still the word of God.
1Chr 29:10-13 Wherefore David blessed the LORD before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed [be] thou, LORD God of Israel our father, for ever and ever. Thine, O LORD, [is] the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all [that is] in the heaven and in the earth [is thine], thine [is] the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all. Both riches and honour [come] of thee, and thou reignest over all, and in thine hand [is] power and might, and in thine hand [it is] to make great, and to give strength unto all. Now therefore, our God, we thank thee, and praise thy glorious name.
---micha9344 on 9/29/10


A disciple asked, Lord, teach us to pray. And he taught them saying,

"In this manner therefore pray you all:
Our Father who in the heavens, sacred be your name.
Let come your your kingdom,
let be done your will as in heaven, also upon the earth.
Our bread of tomorrow give us today.
And relieve us our debts, as even we relieve our debtors.
And let us not enter into temptation, but save us from evil. Amen.
For if you all will let go people their falling aside,
your Father the heavenly will let yours also.
But if you all let go not people their falling aside,
neither will your Father let your falling aside."
---Eloy on 9/29/10


John:

Look at these two different versions:
1) After this manner therefore pray ye: "Our Father... from evil. For thine is..."
2) After this manner therefore pray ye: "Our Father... from evil." (For thine is...)

In the first one, the gloss is within the quotation marks, and attributed to Jesus. In the second one, it is not. The meanings of the two are different, based on punctuation. The problem is, punctuation is a recent invention, and did not exist at the time the Bible was written. So Matthew 6:9-13 includes the scribes annotatation (as in the second example), but we interpret as if it were within the quotes (in the first example) - yet the actual Greek does not distinguish these two forms.
---StrongAxe on 9/29/10


It doesn't actually SAY it is the words of Christ.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/10

YES IT DOES....

LUKE 11.1

"When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples."

"HE" said to them, "When you pray, say.....

Doesn't get any clearer than that!
---John on 9/28/10


John:

It doesn't actually SAY it is the words of Christ. That is a matter of the placement of the closing quotation mark, which is punctuation (which was not in the original Greek anyway). So is it a fault of the scribe, or of those who later misinterpreted what he wrote?
---StrongAxe on 9/28/10




you must always pray in the spirit,
(1Cor 14:13-17[NET])
So then, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.
If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive.
What should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing praises with my spirit, but I will also sing praises with my mind.
Otherwise, if you are praising God with your spirit, how can someone without the gift say Amen to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?
For you are certainly giving thanks well, but the other person is not strengthened.
---Royal_Swann on 9/28/10


\\Because Chrisians assume it to be a quote of Jesus Christ.\\

Christians--including you, John--assume that Jesus said a lot of things, and when I point out that it's otherwise, they--including you--get VERY upset.
---Cluny on 9/28/10


How does saying... attributes of God?
StrongAxe

Because Chrisians assume it to be a quote of Jesus Christ.

NONE are on par with G-d, so therefore NONE can add a verse to His word. WHO SPEAKS FOR G-D? DOES HE NOT HAVE A TONGUE?

Can we add this beatitude and anyone elses...

HERE's MINE..(NOW THE WORD OF G-D.)

"Blessed are those who save money, for theirs is the great wealth in Heaven".

SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH ME DOING THAT???

He doesn't need the help of a scribe to add to this teaching. The Doxology takes away for the truth of the lesson given by Christ.

IT IS INDEED BLASPHEMOUS SINCE IT DECIEVES THE LAYPERSON THAT IT IS A THE WORD OF CHRIST.
---John on 9/28/10


John:

How does saying to God "for thine is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory" possibly assume to oneself the attributes of God? Similar sentiments are echoed all over the Bible.

If it said "for MINE is the Kingdom the Power and the Glory", this would be blasphemy (of the kind that the Beast will assume). But that's not what it says.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/10


\\Does it not fit this definition as you quoted.\\

Nope.

\\Cluny... because it became a tradition of men, does not make it a doctrine of G-d!
---John on 9/28/10\\

If you wish to follow the Roman use, go right ahead, John.
---Cluny on 9/28/10




The dictionary defines blasphemy as:
- assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.
-StrongAxe on 9/28/10

Does it not fit this definition as you quoted.

Cluny... because it became a tradition of men, does not make it a doctrine of G-d!
---John on 9/28/10


\\They are NOT the words of Christ, but of a scribe. It was orginally posted on the margins of bible...\\

Whether the doxology was actually uttered by Christ is unimportant.

It would have still been a standard conclusion based on Jewish liturgical precedent and usage.

And it is not insignificant that ALL the pre-Reformation Churches of the East use this doxology liturgically in some form, regardless of what their received Biblical texts say.

The only pre-Reformation church that does not is the Roman Church and rite, even though it was used in some non-Roman western uses.

It was not even used in English liturgically until the second Prayer Book of 1552 under Edward VI.
---Cluny on 9/28/10


John:

The dictionary defines blasphemy as:
- impious utterance or behavior concerning god or sacred things
- cursing or reviling God
- assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.

These words are not impious, they do not curse or revile God, nor do they say the speaker is God. So, they are not blasphemous.

The words are in some manuscripts and not others, so some say they are not genuine. But this means the manuscripts ARE NOT INERRANT. So just as newer manuscripts may have mistakes, how do you know older ones don't?

So we don't necessarily have the original, undefiled word of God. In fact, some books are even missing. We have an imperfect version that God considers "good enough" for us.
---StrongAxe on 9/28/10


It is a Christian prayer, and it was given as an sample. It was not too lengthy....It should not ever be recited except from the heart. And it's okay to use it in public worship, as long as it is not repetition. For example, just saying it when your heart is far from God.
---catherine on 9/27/10


What part of "For thine is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory forever and ever" is blasphemous?
---StrongAxe on 9/27/10

ALL OF IT!!!

They are NOT the words of Christ, but of a scribe. It was orginally posted on the margins of bibles, but later added to the very words of Jesus The Christ.

So when people read it today they believe these are the words of G-d Almighty and they are NOT!

They are the words of a scibe. Now believed to be the words of Jesus The Christ (AKA G-D).

THAT MAKES IT BLASPHEMY!
---John on 9/27/10


Pray is not a matter of the words use, it is a matter of the condition of the heart. We don't need to bow the knee every time, close our eyes every time, or repeat certain words each time. The "Lord's Prayer" is an example of the order of prayer 1 know to whom you are talking and your relationship 2 praise him for who he is and what he will do by his will 3 pray for the needs, not wants 4) pray for others in the same way you pray for yourself 5 be more than willing to submit to his answer. A praise or burden of the heart taken to the Lord is more important than the words used.
---Harold on 9/27/10


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John:

You said: ALL PRAYER IN SCRIPTURE FOLLOW THIS FORMAT. (i.e Psalms)

I read several psalms from 100 on. NONE were in this format. While the Lord's Prayer is a template, the Bible never says prayers MUST follow any particular template. Many prayers in the Bible use different formats.

You said: DISREGARD THIS ERROR. IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR BIBLE. It adds to the direct Word, template, and teaching of the Lord. IT IS INDEED BLASPHEMY!!!

What part of "For thine is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory forever and ever" is blasphemous? It is in some Matthew manuscripts and not others. It does not contradict scripture, unless you believe the Kingdom, Power and Glory belong to someone else.
---StrongAxe on 9/27/10


this is Jesus teaching His Disciples how to pray, for Israel.

Phil.4:6 Be careful for nothing, but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Even if the answer is no or not now, every thing with thanksgiving
---michael_e on 9/27/10


Possibly, the "Lord's Prayer" is almost the whole of John chapter seventeen. Jude says, "praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God" (in Jude 20-21). In God's love, this love has us praying, "Our Father . . ." while this love has us so perfectly enjoying Him, deeply desiring, "Your will be done," since Your love so satisfies to want to please You, Our Heavenly Father. And Your love makes us so eager to trust You to provide the "daily bread" You please to give us, and satisfied to forgive, in love. So, this prayer is meant to be not just a recitation but the process of how love has us relating with God.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/26/10


Cluny being contentious again.....

are you a woman by the way?
---Carla on 9/24/10


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IT IS A TEMPLATE!

He is teaching us HOW to pray. As He said "Pray in this way"

What did he mean?

THE TEMPLATE IS:

1) First give praise and glory to the Father(YOUR KING)(Hollow by thy name...)

2) Attend to the Kings Business. ("Your will be done...")

3) Then give him your petitions. ("Give us this day...")

ALL PRAYER IN SCRIPTURE FOLLOW THIS FORMAT. (i.e Psalms)

The Doxology at the end is not scripture but was added by a scribe
(" For thine is the Kingdom and Glory forever and ever ...")

DISREGARD THIS ERROR. IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR BIBLE. It adds to the direct Word, template, and teaching of the Lord. IT IS INDEED BLASPHEMY!!!
---John on 9/23/10


\\Your thoughts. Your concerns. Your loves. And your hates. This is how God wants you communicate with him.\\
'
Private prayer is NOT the same thing as the prayer of the Church assembled together.

Or did you think it was?
---Cluny on 9/23/10


When you meet your friend every week at the local cafe, you don't repeat word-for-word everything you said last week, would you? Of course not. You would talk with your friend about what you did during the past week. Your thoughts. Your concerns. Your loves. And your hates. This is how God wants you communicate with him.

Prayer is nothing more than communicating with him. It's your link to him. Prayer is simply talking to your heavenaly Father.

Prayer is communicating with God.
Psalm 17:1
Proverbs 28:9

Jesus' sample prayer starts out as a salutation much like you do when getting the attention of a friend across the street.
Matthew 6:9

The bible is full of prayers to God - and they are not all the same.
---Steveng on 9/21/10


It's one of many prayers the Lord Jesus uttered. We have the texts of some of them.

The thing is, ALL the pre-Reformation Apostolic churches have used the Our Father liturgically.

Why question the practice 2000 years later?
---Cluny on 9/21/10


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