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Saved Same As Born Again

Is being saved the same thing as being born again?

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 ---Donna5535 on 9/24/10
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//Jack B, Plato? You've created a god who does not exist//


Oh for goodness sake. MARK. Plato is not a god. Go google him.

This just proves to me that you are clueless about the founding fathers of your church doctrine.
---JackB on 10/13/10


Char, that is correct. I believe that the problem many have is two-fold. One, the humanistic flesh still holding on to pride. The second, not enough studying with a passion for the Truth. They study to look for passages can may seem to imply something they already defend, not because its Truth but because it matches something they already believe. What is called theological bias, defend it till the second coming of Christ. If they would just think for themselves, and open their hearts to the Spirit. They would see a most Omnipotent God who knows all things, because He ordained all things to have one ending. Only one, for it is written to be the way God planned it. No matter anyone's opinions.
---MarkV. on 10/13/10


That is why a Good tree can not produce bad fruit, it's because God lives in those who are born again. Evil is not good, and Good is not evil.
---David on 10/8/10
David- are you Now confessing this is what you believe?
It appears so.

The Word of God is eternal-Immanuel God with us Matt 1:10-24,Jn 1:1,Jn 17
Being born again-is confessing the Word of God--Jesus Christ.
Confessing the Word to Lord and Master your life-Roman 10:9:10

Having the Word of God in you-confessing you believe it-is having God in you-Immanuel.

Mark V-If you are saying God knows the souls before they are placed in flesh and it is not according to their works in the flesh that save them-
to this I agree.
Jer1:5,Ecc 12:7,Ez18:4,Rom 9
---char on 10/13/10


Jack B, Plato? You've created a god who does not exist. The story of Esau you again twisted as you do every passage.
Here it is again why those words were said about Esau,
"For this is the word of pomise (listen good Jack) At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this, but when "Rebeca also conceived by one man, even by out father Isaac, for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good are evil, "that the purpose of God according to Election might stand" not of works but of Him who calls, it was said to her 'the older shall serve the younger, As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esaau I have hated"
Pronounced by God for the purpose of Election.
---MarkV. on 10/13/10


David, I want you to think, exclude any bias you have and just think. "Would you humble yourself to someone who you did not have faith in? Only if a gun was put to your head. So it was with Noah. He already had faith in God, and walked with God as verses Gen. 6:9,10 explain. He was a just man. And so found grace in the eyes of God. Grace that would save him and his family from the wrath of God to all man through the flood.
Grace for salvation is not bought by any works of our own.
"Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise Grace is no longer Grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer Grace"
---MarkV. on 10/13/10




There is a difference between grace toward salvation and a covenant with promise.
---micha9344 on 10/11/10

Micha
Do you think God would have Saved Noah, if Noah had not build the Ark as God commanded him to do?

No,
God would have flooded the Earth anyway and Noah would not have been saved.
Noah would then have pleaded with God, Saying, "Lord, Lord", please do not kill me and my family.'

Then do you know what God would have said to Noah?
(Luke 6:46)
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


This is also what God will say to those believer,s who do not do what Jesus Christ commands them to do.
---David on 10/13/10


Ive read it 50 times Mark, the meaning never changes. Its about the descendants of Esau. The nation of EDOM. Not Esau himself.

When you look at it properly it destroys the Calvinists attempt to use that scripture to back up INDIVIDUAL election.

And it also has NO bearing on salvation to the GENTILES! WHich is explained later on if you people would stop reading just in Chapter 9 and go thru chaptersm 10 and 11 where the you will begin to see the bigger picture! How those who were used of God for common purpose (dishonor) because of their rebelliousness has made it possible for the entire world to be saved!!!

Did you ever do you research on Augustine and Calvin, Mark? Or did you avoid that as well?
---JackB on 10/12/10


Ill give you a head start, Mark. Go research Manichaeism and the teachings of Plato and see where Augustine and Calvin got their ideas of the "total depravity" of mankind and "individual election" from and how Augustine introduced them into Christianity and how it was protested by the Church.

Go read it brother. Unless you dont want to know the truth.

This is the last time Im gonna bring it up. If you are a true man of God and want to know the truth of all things that pertain to Godliness, then you will study and learn the beliefs and lives of the men that you follow the doctrines of. If you do not choose to do so then you are without excuse.
---JackB on 10/12/10


Noah(rest)-Walked with God-had peace(rested).
God revealed,taught and was yoked with Noah.
Noah worshipped One-Zech 14:9.
In-Christ we are cleansed through repentance. His death and resurrection completely delivers us from death-we walk In the Word of God(Christ) and have peace.We converse, trust,believe,rely and depend on what He said.
Mercy-grace-promise-
All souls belong to God-regardless.Ez18:4
Yehovah is the Tree(The strength)that bear Good fruit-only In-Christ-through the Holy Spirit we bear good fruit
Gal 5:22
Tree-a unit made up of trunk,branches and leaves-Leviticus 26:4(eyts)
El strengthens-Ez 3:19-24
(eyts) wood-Gen 6:14
Tree of Life-binds,strengthens when yoked to it(ehhad)-as one-unit.
---char on 10/12/10


Can one be perfect? From a Greek perspective, no-everyone has his faults, but in Hebraic thought there is no concept of perfect.

You will be complete (tamiym) with Yahweh your Elohiym

1 Jn 1:8-10If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, If we confess our sins, He is fatithful and just to forgive us [our]sins,and to cleanse us form all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us

Noah-(Rest)- perfect in his generation-

Within the Ark(God refuge)-saved from the flood.
Christ is our refuge-saves us from the flood of lies the enemy tries to seduce with.
---char on 10/12/10




Noah, found grace so that he and his family could be saved, by implying that, if he hadn't there would have been no one alive, there would be no Jesus, Jesus coming would then be depended upon Noah and not God, placing all of Scripture in the hands of one sinful person.---MarkV. on 10/11/10

Mark
Close, but not exactly what I was thinking.
Noah and his family were saved by Grace, and Noah was choosen by God because Noah was in God's Favor.

Why did Noah find Grace in the eyes of God?
(Genesis 6:9)
"Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

Was the Grace of God, in the example of Noah Unmerited, or did Noah do something to be in the Grace of God????
---David on 10/12/10


Jack, you should read Malachi 1:1-5 again and again. you will see that what Christian wrote is correct. And while you are at it read Genesis 2:8-3:24. You will know then that Adam never ate from the tree of life, if he had he would have had eternal life without been obedient to God. If you remember, he died. And if he had, why put cherubims and a flaming sword to guard the way to the tree of life from Adam? You say he already had eternal life.
What is happening is that you are not reading your Bible, or have another Bible that we know nothing about. One that speaks differently then our Bible's.
---MarkV. on 10/12/10


//As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. - Romans 9:13//
---christan on 9/25/10

Go read Malachi 1:1-5 please
---JackB on 10/11/10


There is a difference between grace toward salvation and a covenant with promise.
The covenant(agreement) came after the salvation in Noah's case as well as Moses'.
To follow is a choice by faith that you will be saved and receive the promise(s).
God still knew the choices they and each of us would make.
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)
Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
---micha9344 on 10/11/10


David, I know why your asking about Noah, you want to conclude that because Noah, from his own free will, found grace so that he and his family could be saved. And by implying that, if he hadn't there would have been no one alive, there would be no Jesus, Jesus coming would then be depended upon Noah and not God, placing all of Scripture in the hands of one sinful person. What you forget is what God said in v. 5,6 all men were sinful. And wrong because God had already said in Genesis 3:15, that "God would put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed" which was Jesus. It was God who ordained that Noah find grace for himself and family, grace He did not ordain for the others, because they all died.
---MarkV. on 10/11/10


Genesis 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you,
Every single descendent of Noah.
---micha9344 on 10/10/10

Bingo!!
And Abram was a descendant of Noah, from which the covenant originated.

I needed Mark to say this, but you will do Micha.
Micha, Why did God make his covenant with Noah?
We know that Noah found Grace in the eyes of God.
Was there a reason that Noah found Grace in the eyes of God, or was Noah just an arbitrary selection of God's?
---David on 10/11/10


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The Gentiles were never under the law. However, they do have an intuituve knowledge of the wrath of God revealed from heaven against all ungodliness that leaves them without excuse. The Jews had both that intuitive knowledge AND the outward witness of the law that made those who believed they were righteous by that same law doubly guilty. What the law says, it says to them that are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and every man be found guilty before God. This is found in the first three chapters of Romans, not to mention several other places.
---Linda on 10/10/10


Genesis 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you,
Every single descendent of Noah.
---micha9344 on 10/10/10


David, all the covenants are by promise.
---MarkV. on 10/10/10

Really Mark???
Name someone in the Old Testament, that came before Abraham, that inherited a Covenant, with God, from their Fathers.
---David on 10/10/10


David, all the covenants are by promise. God promises to do some things and the people promise to obey. With Adam, God promised him a life eternal if he obedied, if he disobeyed he would receive death. Adam disobeyed and God not only physical death at a later time, but sudden spiritual death. Separation from God. Everyone who is lost is under the Covenant of works of the law. They cannot leave that covenant unless they place their faith in Jesus Christ sinless works and resurrection. The old covenant is very much inforce to all those who are lost. All those who genuinely believe by faith are not under the law but under Grace. Their sins have been forgiven once for all time.
---MarkV. on 10/10/10


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Old T. believers were saved by grace --MarkV. on 10/9/10

Mark
I agree, every covenant that God made in the Old Testament, before the one he made with Moses, came by Grace.

However, The covenant that God made with Moses, did not come by Grace, but came only because of the promise that God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,(Exodus 2:24).
And that is what Paul is trying to explain to the Jews in his letters when he is teaching "not by works, but by Grace".
The Promise:
(Genesis 17:7)
"I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."
---David on 10/10/10


David 2: post again:
Old T. believers were saved by grace just as the New T. believers, they can both be considered a part of the Covenant of Grace. The relationship is seen as that between a good covenant relationship and an ever better one. The good covenant of grace had been rejected by the Idolatrous Israelites. God replaced it with a new Covenant of Grace even more gracious than the former one. The relationship is further described as that between a system that looked forward to its fulfillment, and the fulfillment itself. The blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin finally and absolutely, but simply acted as a downpayment until Christ came as the perfect Atonement. Dispensationalist place more emphasis on discontinuity.
---MarkV. on 10/9/10


By Grace we are exempt from condemnation of the Law.
---MarkV. on 10/9/10

Mark
When Paul taught that we are not under Law, he was speaking about the Law of Moses.
The covenant that God made with Moses and the children of Abraham did not come by Grace, but by a promise God made to Abraham.(Genesis 17:7)

The New Covenant it is not by promise, but is only by the Grace of God.
Many seem to believe that Grace is the unmerited favor of God, when in fact, Jesus taught quite the opposite.
(John 14:21)
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
---David on 10/9/10


David, the point is that we are still sinful. whether sins of action or sins of omission. Here is the point of the Christian faith, as I know it. There is two main Covenants, A Covenant of works of obedience given to Adam and Eve before the fall, and a Covenant of Grace through faith, given to all sinners after the fall. The Covenant for sinners was to sacrifice animals over and over, but through that Covenant no one could stop from sinning so they broke the law. That's why there is no salvation under the law. Under the Covenant of Grace through faith, God promised a better Covenant of Grace, the True sacrifice of Christ for our sins once for all time. By Grace through faith in the sacrifice of Christ we are exempt from condemnation of the Law.
---MarkV. on 10/9/10


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Being born again,salvation, being saved, relationship with Jesus, walk with the Lord, on my journey all mean the same things, Donna.
---Robyn on 10/8/10


Of course I do not believe that sins of omission lead to death, that was not my point. Only that a saved person still sins which was the topic.
---MarkV. on 10/7/10

O.K., good point.
When I say that I do not sin, I am speaking of those sins that lead to death, those Jesus calls out in,
(Matthew 15:19)
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies"

There is no Evil in me, not because of what I have done, because I could not defeat Sin, but that Good work that God has done in me.

That is why a Good tree can not produce bad fruit, it's because God lives in those who are born again. Evil is not good, and Good is not evil.
---David on 10/8/10


Yes, being saved is the same as being Born Again.

We are Born of the Spirit of the LIFE of Christ, His RISEN LIFE. This is what being Born Again means. Also Romans states we are justified by his Blood and SAVED By HIS LIFE..again His risen life. This is what qualifies you to become a BEGOTTEN SON through Jesus Christ.

Saved from SIN and the penalty of sin Christ took upon Himself.


Peter also tells us

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
---kathr4453 on 10/8/10


David, my point was that you still sin. The passages in 1 John is talking about a believer, a brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death. Of course I do not believe that sins of omission lead to death, that was not my point. Only that a saved person still sins which was the topic. There is sin that leads to death and sister Char explained it very well. Sin that leads to physical death as as a judgment of God is whatever sin is the final one in the tolerance of God. Failure to repent of and forsake that sin may eventually lead to physical death. No intercessor prayer will be effective for those who have committed such deliberate high sin. Let's talk about what you ask, "He takes away our sins" next ok?
---MarkV. on 10/7/10


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Mark, to your point-1Jn5:10-17
(KEY vs 13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God:ye may Know ye have eternal life,ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.(That would be Yeshua)Sin unto death was one that might result in the brother being cut off.1Cor 11:30 ---"many sleep"

Vs 17 ALL unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.

We know ALL Unrighteousness is sin---we are told there is a sin not unto death---
Nature of Sin-starts as a seed
Nature of Death-- of the flesh and soul--"Without the shredding of Blood there was no remission" (ALL sin---regardless) Heb 9:22
Feeding-visiting the sick etc...(My sheep hear my voice-follow)Jn 10:27
---char on 10/5/10


What you forget are sins of "Omission" Have you given clothes to the poor when you could, or not visited the sick when you could, That too is sin, for it is failure to do what God commands us believers to do.
---MarkV. on 10/4/10

Mark
You are correct, but what you call the Sin's of omission, do not lead to death.(1John 5:16-17)

The sins of omission are not done out of an Evil heart, as are those sins as Jesus spoke of in (Matthew 15:19)
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies"
---David on 10/5/10


Those who believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead have him as their advocate-righteousness-without sin. If you believe it, you will confess it.
1Jn1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us[our]sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
1Jn3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for His SEED remaineth in him,and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.***
Born of A New Beginning (Yehovah)TRUTH is BIRTH-and saves believers Through His Word from deception to the End.---
---Yehovah is the beginning and End-Jn1:1,Is 41:14
---char on 10/4/10


When one is born of the Holy Spirit by the will of God, he has received salvation in Jesus Christ and WILL be saved. That's why a Christian will go to heaven to be with the Lord. He can never loose his salvation. That the promise of God in His Son Jesus Christ. Amen.
---christan on 10/4/10


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"I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
---francis on 10/4/10

francis have you ever heard the term concerning pregnancy and childbirth," that her water broke" this is the water that this verse is speaking of. It does not refer to baptism.

Using this understanding all men are born of water but not all men are born of the Spirit
---mima on 10/4/10


Is being saved the same thing as being born again?

No these arenot the same.

Those who are born again shall be saved.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
---francis on 10/4/10


David #1, in 1 John 3:10
"In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness" is not of God, Nor is he who does not love his brother"
Very different then what you said. "Practice righteousness" not "anyone who does not do what is right."
What you forget are sins of "Omission" Have you given clothes to the poor when you could, or not visited the sick when you could, or helped a beggar when he ask for help, or left everyone to follow Christ? That too is sin, for it is failure to do what God commands us believers to do. So before you claim you are sinless, and I'm not, check your own sins.
---MarkV. on 10/4/10


David, those questions are now for you.
---MarkV. on 10/3/10

Mark
I was not talking about our relationship, but your relationship with others, those in your everyday life.

(1 John 3:10)
"Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother."

You say that you sin, if you sin, it must involve someone.
Paul says that, "Love does no Harm to it's neighbor."
If love does no harm to it's neighbor, how can you claim to love those you sin against?

By the way Mark, you don't seem to be yourself lately,
Are you OK?
You also had me concerned in your last few posts.

---David on 10/4/10


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Jack, I guess that answer was for David. I also love him too. I am feeling awesome, for we just had another grand-daughter. Just beautiful. I love everyone everyday, but yesterday I added another one to love. I feel very blessed. Thank you for asking
---MarkV. on 10/3/10


Mark, that was David

You feeling alright this week? lol

Kathr, JackB, David... meh w/e
---JackB on 10/3/10


Jack, here I wanted to answer David and put your name. Sorry for that error again. As I said before, I'm not perfect like some here. Also good I put your name, because it made it possible for me to tell you I do love you as a brother.

David, those questions are now for you. I do not know you enough yet reading your post as I do Jack, but I still love you, since you started answering I found out you lived. So where did I stop loving you are anyone? Heck, I even love Kathr who is so terrible. I don't expect her to change on her own, only God can change her. That's why I still love her.
---MarkV. on 10/3/10


Jack, I don't understand why you gave 1 John 3:14, and Romans 13:9-11. Are you saying I don't love you? Brother, I love you, I don't regularly call anyone a brother.
I disagree with your believes on some doctrines, give you the reasons why, put down passages with context, break down the context for you. I don't call you names are say you are not saved, or that your a bad person. What's happened here is that those who disagree when I answer resort to name calling as Kathr and others do. Yet there is many here who answer that disagree with me, who don't resort to name calling, are follow you all over the website to condemn every word you say. Those are evil acts that come from the heart. With one purpose, to slander you.
---MarkV. on 10/2/10


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Jack 2: concerning Rom. 3:12, the passage is correct. In the eyes of God all come short of the glory of God. Everyone sins.
---MarkV. on 10/1/10

Mark
Let me show you another problem with your doctrine.
(1 John 3:14) says:
"He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."
How can you claim to love your brother when you sin against him?

Read:
(Romans 13:9-11)
The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
---David on 10/1/10


Jack 2: concerning Rom. 3:12, the passage is correct. In the eyes of God all come short of the glory of God. Everyone sins. And no one is good who is lost. Since God is talking about the Lost, their good is not good since it has no faith in Christ. Anything without faith is sin. The lost do alot of good things in life, but that good is sinful without faith.
---MarkV. on 10/1/10


David, have you already stopped sinning or will you ever stop sinning while you are still walking in this cursed world? Because if you claim you have or will be, I assure you that you have a different spirit from that of Paul and the Christians.
---christan on 9/30/10

Christan
You make a good arguement, if we argue according to what you believe, but the Bible disputes what you say.
(Matthew 7:18)
"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit."
(1 John 5:18)
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not."
(Matthew 12:33)
"For the tree is known by his fruit."

If what you believe opposes that which Jesus Christ taught, where do you suppose those teaching come from?
---David on 10/1/10


Jack, I don't believe you gave me any credit at any time. But I will answer you. The context of Matt. 7: from 15-20 is talking about false prophets. These decieve not by disuising themselves as sheep, but by impersonating true shepherds. They promote the wide gate and the wide way. 7:16 say, "you will know them by their fruits." their barreness of this sort of faith demonstrates its real character (v 20). The faith that says and does not do is really unbelief. Jesus was not suggesting that works are meritorious for salvation, but that true faith will not fail to produce the fruit of good works. Which is precisely what James talked about in James 1:22-25, and 2:26.
---MarkV. on 10/1/10


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No they are not the same.

The Jews had to be born again because they knew God and had fallen away from God that is why the had to repent.

Those of us who are Gentiles never knew God so we had a reprobate mind which needs to be renewed. Only can we get is through the grace of God and that includes both groups today.
---Royll on 9/30/10


//'It cannot bear good fruit the passage says" and as we know from seeing the lost, they do a lot of good works (fruit). The passage cannot mean they never do good works.//- MarkV

Mark, I can only laugh at you now. You flip flop so much you are losing credibility with me. It seems your interpretations change when it suits you so you are able to prove someone else wrong (David in this case)

Remember how you say this verse proves that TOTAL DEPRAVITY is truth?

Romans 3,12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable, there is none that doeth good, no, not one

Now you say a bad tree (unsaved, dead) can produce good fruit? I wish you would make up your mind.
---JackB on 9/30/10


Mark
What do you think makes a tree good?
---David on 9/30/10


Part 1 -

David, have you already stopped sinning or will you ever stop sinning while you are still walking in this cursed world? Because if you claim you have or will be, I assure you that you have a different spirit from that of Paul and the Christians.

Paul was converted on the way to Damascus not of his will but that of God's will. When he was converted, it was the Holy Spirit who converted him, and when the Spirit converts, you are already deemed to have received the gift which is eternal life in Jesus Christ.
---christan on 9/30/10


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David, Scripture was not good enough. Now, good fruit and bad fruit. Lets talk first of bad tree,
"Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit"
The passage reads the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, "nor can a bad tree bear good fruit" 'It cannot bear good fruit the passage says" and as we know from seeing the lost, they do a lot of good works (fruit). The passage cannot mean they never do good works. The same hold's true for the good tree. It doesn't mean they always bear good fruit, or how much fruit, or whether the fruit is perfect fruit. It's talking about the character of the person, not talking about someone being sinless.
---MarkV. on 9/30/10


David 2, the passage continues with,
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them"
Those that are saved produce alot of good fruit, through the works of the Holy Spirit guiding them and teaching them, it doesn't say all perfect fruit, but a tree that produces good fruit. If it doesn't they are thrown into the fire. That's why Scripture says, that the bad branches are trimmed from the vine. They don't cut the whole vine down. Jesus said:
"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser, Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away" Can you amagine cutting the vine down which is Christ?
---MarkV. on 9/30/10


The word "overcomes" in the original language conveys the idea that the believer has continual victory over the world.
---MarkV. on 9/29/10

Continual victory over the world?
With this I agree.

Mark
Jesus taught about a "Good Tree" and a "Bad Tree" in (Matthew 7:17-19), and the fruit in which they produced.
The Good Tree produces Good Fruit, and the Bad Tree produces Bad Fruit.
Jesus also taught that the "Good Tree" can not bear bad fruit.

Mark
Is sin good fruit?
---David on 9/30/10


David, that is a good question
"who is he who overcomes?",
First, it is not my doctrine, but one of the doctrines of the gospel, "And this is the victory that has overcome the world-"Our faith." Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?" 1 John 5:4,5. "Our faith" that Christ is the Son of God also believes in the works of Christ on the cross and His resurrection. Because of believers union with Christ, they partake on His victory (Rom. 8:37, 2 Cor. 2:14). The word "overcomes" in the original language conveys the idea that the believer has continual victory over the world.
---MarkV. on 9/29/10


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You come out with your sinless doctrine which is not Scriptural --MarkV. on 9/28/10

Mark
(Revelation 21:7-8) says:
"He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son, But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liarstheir place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Under your doctrine, who is "He Who Overcomes"?
---David on 9/29/10


Christian, when a person is dead in sin, only an act of God can bring him to life, (Eph. 1:1) which is called, born again, or rebirth. Just as David mentioned in his answer. Second, Jesus spoke of a baptism He was going to go through in Luke 12:50, is a baptism of suffering to death which He was going to go through which symbolizes the baptism of water. When is person baptizes in water, it symbolized death and new life. Then there is Baptism of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Cor. 12:3. "For by One Spirit we were all baptized into one gody" Believers have been baptized into one body. It's a spiritual act by the Spirit, it is spiritual and eternal. Filled with the Spirit is an act of God towards all that believe with gifts.
---MarkV. on 9/28/10


"Yes" they are the same. Some folks try to complicate the meanings with theological gooblygook, but they are the same. The reason this whole terminology came about is because there are people in the church, who may even be menbers, and think they are Christians. (They may be moral, even "religious", but not Christians.) So to make sure a person was a real Christian, Christians started using the term, "born again" just to make sure a person was a true Christian and not just "religious".
---wivv on 9/28/10


David, great answer on 9/26/10, "Many believers have received the Gift of the Holy spirit, but this is not the same as being born of the Spirit, as is taught in most churches. Those who will be saved are those who have been born again, as prescribed in (1John3:9)
Those who walk in the spirit, and not after a false doctrine.
Those who are not followers of Men, but follow the Spirit of God."

I would wish you would remember that later on. But you messed it up when you answered "Christian."
You come out with your sinless doctrine which is not Scriptural, for all come short of the glory of God. All means all. So you fall in the category that you yourself put, "and not after a false doctrine"
---MarkV. on 9/28/10


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How does one receive the gift of the Spirit without being born of the Spirit? Your understanding is very very confusing and dangerous. It is totally unbiblical.
---christan on 9/27/10

Christan
(Acts 2:38) tells us how we receive the Gift of the Holy spirit.
And (1John 3:9) tells us that those who are born of God do not sin.

Christan
Do you sin?
If you do, God who is Holy, does not live in you.
If you do sin, then you are called a sinner...Correct?

Does it sound like the sinner is saved in(1Peter 4:18)
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Is this Biblical enough, or do you reject that which goes against your doctrine?

---David on 9/28/10


If one is truly saved then you are "born-again". I can not stress the importance of every person knowing what it means to be truly saved. Does the living God live in you? You may smirk and grin at this, thinking there is more, another way to reach heaven. YOU ARE WRONG....You must be lead by the Holy Spirit. Hallelujah.
---catherine on 9/27/10


"Many believers have received the Gift of the Holy spirit, but this is not the same as being born of the Spirit, as is taught in most churches." - by David.

How does one receive the gift of the Spirit without being born of the Spirit? Your understanding is very very confusing and dangerous. It is totally unbiblical.

First of all, being born of the Spirit as taught by Christ in John 1 & 3 is the sovereign work of God and not man. The man as Paul says in Ephesians 2 is "dead in his sins and trespasses." The word is "DEAD". How does a "dead" man choose to be made alive? It's impossible for man, but for God, all things are possible
---christan on 9/27/10


Donna5535, the answer to your question is YES!!! We are born of the Spirit of the LIFE OF CHRIST, His risen LIFE that is what being Born Again is, that set us FREE from the law of sin and death. We are saved from SIN (Past), the power of SIN now over us,(Present) and from the wrath of God ( future) on those who are still in their SIN!!!

Born of God, AKA begotten Sons through Jesus Christ, and through the resurrection of Jesus Christ as Peter tells us.

---kathr4453 on 9/27/10


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If you are speaking about eternity, and not in earthly definitions, then "yes" being saved from sin and condemnation is the same as being born-again into a new creation from Christ.
---Eloy on 9/27/10


So beautiful david. ---candice on 9/26/10

Thank you Candice.
In the beginning I kept the Lord's commandments out of my Fear for God, but over time through my relationship with God, I kept the Lord's commandments because I loved him.

In the beginning I was seeking Eternal Life, at the end just before I died to sin, all I wanted was to please my Lord and I knew I could never do this in my sin.
God, knowing the desire of my heart, gave me that which I desired most, he removed the sin, that addiction of sin, which had plagued me for many years.

When you love someone, truly love someone, that love is a much stronger deterent to disobedience, than any punishment one could ever give to cause obedience.
---David on 9/27/10


So beautiful david. thanks for sharing. i feel the same way & glad that i am with a congregation that is planted in the truth (Gods word) and NOT on mans opinion! Amen.
i made a lot of mistakes and will make more, but one i will not make is leaving Gods word. He chose me & I answered the call. no one can take that away.
---candice on 9/26/10


Salvation spiritually, is mankind's deliverance from the penalty of sin, rescue from the captivity of Satan, the healing of a broken heart, the recovery of sight into the things of the Spirit, and in the end, physical protection from the wrath of God.
To be born again is to be renewed, regenerated and restored to lost awareness from above. It is a transforming of ones character via the renewing of ones mind through the washing, regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever. A new birth, -a new origin, source and bringing forth of a thought process or way of thinking- [that is] "not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
---josef on 9/26/10


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Many believers have received the Gift of the Holy spirit, but this is not the same as being born of the Spirit, as is taught in most churches.

Those who will be saved are those who have been born again, as prescribed in (1John3:9)
Those who walk in the spirit, and not after a false doctrine.
Those who are not followers of Men, but follow the Spirit of God.

I was blessed because I was able to follow the Spirit.
I was not a member of any church doctrine and had noone to follow except the Holy Spirit.

I came before the Lord like a little Child.
With an empty mind ready to be taught and learning the voice of God.
---David on 9/26/10


"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:12,13

Being "born again" (John 3) is to be born of the Spirit of God. This can only take place if you're in the covenant of grace, chosen by God in love before the foundation of the world in His Son Jesus Christ. Mankind has no part in being able to choose to be "born of the Spirit", it is God who has chosen before He even created and no one can change His plans.

As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. - Romans 9:13
---christan on 9/25/10


Bill, I'm not worried at all. I'm confused...lol.

I have a mother who thinks she's saved and going to heaven yet the root of bitterness in her is so deep. I get devoured just for saying mom, please make sure you are right with the Lord if the doctors are telling you that you may not make it passed this next cardio-version. She gets very angry with me. What did I say wrong?

I have people telling me all the time they're saved, they're born again, they've got the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not out to expose, just to UNDERSTAND the TRUTH of God's word. I guess I'm confused. I believe when people tell me they're saved. But act like the devil. I'm confused.
---Donna5535 on 9/25/10


\\Bruce,
I may be wrong but I think that Cluny is saying that while we may know we have eternal life, only at the end will we be saved if we endure unto the end and do not fall away or be cast off as Paul wrote.\\

You got it!

Though it seems that St. Paul was an awfully crabby person to live with.
---Cluny on 9/25/10


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Bruce,
I may be wrong but I think that Cluny is saying that while we may know we have eternal life, only at the end will we be saved if we endure unto the end and do not fall away or be cast off as Paul wrote.
Many have come and gone as even Paul wrote. Of all that heard him all but 5 or 6 remained to the end. Those probably were saved at the end like Paul but the others having turned fell away loving this world and probably perished with an end in hell.
Only God knows however.
I won't risk judging them.
---Frank on 9/25/10


I think what you are sharing is beautiful, Donna. Why worry about what labels to put on it ? ? ? (c:
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/25/10


Cluny,

Regarding your comments about not knowing if you are saved till the end.


Consider 1 John 5:13, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
---Bruce5656 on 9/24/10


\\Cluny, do you have an "in" with God? that you are saying nobody on these blogs is yet really saved? Do you think you're the only one saved Cluny?\\

I never said I was, Donna.

I'm just summarizing what the Bible says.

St. Paul himself begged for prayers "lest having preached to others, I myself might become disqualified."

Only at the END of his life and awaiting execution did he dare say, "I have finished the race. I have kept the faith."

Too many people have equated finishing the race to merely beginning it.
---Cluny on 9/24/10


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People are BEING saved--but nobody on these blogs is yet really saved, at least in the BIBLE way.
---Cluny on 9/24/10

Cluny, do you have an "in" with God? that you are saying nobody on these blogs is yet really saved? Do you think you're the only one saved Cluny?

How would you know that? Because I have Pastors who I hold myself accountable to and they have all told me not to let people rob me of my special relationship with Jesus and Father God. And God Himself gave me a word in John Ch.16, For the Father Himself loves you - I had been asking God for a word, then I spent hours in the bible studying and one day that scripture in John Chapter 16 spoke to me by the power of the Holy Spirit...so how is it I'm not saved?
---Donna5535 on 9/24/10


Nope.

And saying a simple non-biblical "sinner's prayer" is not the same thing as either.

NOBODY is saved until he has passed beyond sin, sickness, death, and judgement and has heard that His most joyful voice, "Come, O blessed of My Father. Inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

People are BEING saved--but nobody on these blogs is yet really saved, at least in the BIBLE way.
---Cluny on 9/24/10


For being born again is the initial process in getting saved. Matt.24 v 13.
---Lawrence on 9/24/10


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