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Help From Church If You Tithe

My pastor's wife made a comment that was mean. She said "Yall go to Pastor cause he is nice, if anyone asked me for help I would go the my computer, pull up your name, and whatever amount you have tithe, is the amount of help you would get from the church. Was she out of place?

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 ---max on 9/26/10
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Helping people is about love not about past givings.
We are commanded to give a tithe/offerings by Jesus. jesus says "Give to God what is God's". God owns everything we are just stewards of it. The local church is supposed to get 10% of your gross income. This rule came from Abraham who was pre-law. From Abel who gave a first and best portion to God. Also, Jesus says You cannot serve both God and money. This is why you do not want to give a tithe because it is you god.
---Scott on 1/13/11


I once heard a pastor say that. When I give I don't put my name on the envelope. I just put my money in. God knows how much I give and it really isn't anyone else's business. I would surely find a place to worship that was the opposite of what you have now.
---shira3877 on 12/21/10


"Yes", she was way out of line. In the first place, she should not even have access to your tithe amount. In the second place, getting help from your church should not be dependent on how much you give.
---wivv on 12/20/10


My wonderful wife once asked her Sunday school teacher(the pastor's wife) how was the money such as the tithe and offerings was divided? What do you think happened?

The pastor preached two sermons against me and finally when I was too thick to understand he simply said go.

I never got mad and I consider this man a very staunch Christian, and also consider him a Christian to have the gift of healing.
---mima on 11/11/10


2 CORINTHIANS 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, SO let him give, NOT GRUDGINGLY, OR OF NECESSITY, for God loveth a cheerful giver.
---RICHARD on 10/17/10




You only got it 1/2 right. Holy scripture DOES say how to assist
****

except the post does not indicate WHAT is required by "help"

EVERY definition of "help" is NOT recorded in Holy Scripture

EVERY definition of "help" is NOT always M-O-N-E-Y
---Rhonda on 10/16/10


Karen:

Abraham's tithe was spoils of war. Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didnt even belong to Abraham. Read Genesis 14:21 and Genesis 14:22-24. It is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Furthermore, what Abraham did was not carried forward into the law. God only asked for 1.1% of war spoils under the Mosaic law.
---Gary on 10/16/10


Holy Scripture does not dictate how churches assist families ...there are many ways to assist without money
--Rhonda on 10/16/10

You only got it 1/2 right. Holy scripture DOES say how to assist - or how they did in Old Testament Israel at least. Just do a topical study on the "poor tithe". Tithes were food, and 1/3 of all tithes went to take care of the poor - or to be more literal, the full take of all tithes every third year.
---Obewan on 10/16/10


Sounds like the wife's needs are not being met. His time? His financial support? Pray for her, she shouldn't have access to tithe info at all. According to Abraham,before the law, tithe is 10% of your increase. Don't steal from God.
---Karen on 10/16/10


The pastors wife has no business saying anything to anyone about tithe. What you give is between you and God. Our pastor does not even know who gives and who don't give. Our financial statement is posted on the board each month. It includes how much was brought in and how much was dispersed. No name is on it except our church's name. I would have a problem with a church where the pastors wife is so arrogant.
---shira3877 on 10/16/10




It is her husbands church not Gods ...she is not out of place with her statement - however it is absurd seeing tithes purpose are to do Gods Work ...if everyone came to her husband asking for help and they were given their tithes their little church society would cease to exist

do not confuse this "nice Pastor" and his selfish wife - they are one in mind through marriage - her thoughts/actions/deeds and foolish tongue will eventually rule his life and destroy him

Holy Scripture does not dictate how churches assist families ...there are many ways to assist without money

most in mainstream christianity follow their hearts rather than Gods Word and do not tithe accepting lie that tithing was some harsh OT thing
---Rhonda on 10/16/10


If by "tithe" one means a literal basic 10%, we are not bound to that under Christ.

However, if one is looking at Biblical standards of giving, there are only two: 10% in the OT and 100% in the NT.

Either are good standards for us to measure ourselves against.

When we manage one level, we should seriously start considering the next one.
---Cluny on 10/12/10


We have among us people who have been raised and taught that the keeping of the law is the way to righteousness. Of course they're seeking a righteousness which they earn. They do not know nor understand that they have no righteousness, nor can they obtain righteousness aside from the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. When the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is imputed to you you are righteous indeed.
May I take time out to say hallelujah thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!!1
---mima on 10/11/10


Christ ended the Law requirement.

Why are some trying to live by an old law rather than by living in Christ?

It is like saying Jesus' sacrifice was for nothing.

Yet, those who wish to live by this old law, ignore the other 600+ laws given to Israel (not Christians).

It is hypocritical.
---R._Jerome_Harris on 10/10/10


Gary is right, notice in Mal 3:3 and Mal 2:1 that God is talking to the priests, the sons of Levi, the Levites...
So, neither is there any monetary tithes, there also isn't any tithes directly from the people to the storehouse.
Unless the claim is made that we are all priests, then where is our share of the tithe from the people so we can tithe from it to fill the storehouse?
So many things wrong with trying to apply the Levitical tithe to Christians.
If a person would like to offer exactly 10% of their income freely to help with church needs and call it a 'tithe', so be it, but don't in any way relate it to the Levitical tithes Israelite farmers and herdsmen were commanded to pay on their crop and animal increase.
---micha9344 on 10/8/10


If anyone receive help from the church, it should be its own members(congregants). The congregants are there supporting the church, at all times. No matter how little the support and how much money is given. Everything christians do, should be done in love. In love, I should want to help anyone with a true need, who comes to the church, asking. That is the love of Christ. This pastors wife does not know love and compassion.How sad. How ignorant.
---Robyn on 10/8/10


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Gary, what I meant is that you gave all this examples and reasons for the Old Testament Tithe. When none of that means a thing to us now. Maybe in the Old Testament if you didn't give, someone would come to your house and make you, I do not know. But today we give as we can. Sometimes we give to many organisations together with our church. I don't think we are expected to give more then we can anyway. I ask because you gave alot of explanations about the Old Testament that was all. I thought maybe you disagreed in giving, because I was almost sure you oppose going to church are speaking against those who teach in churches. I guess I was wrong and it was not you. That is why I asked. Thank's for answering kindly. peace to you
---MarkV. on 10/8/10


The pastor's wife was definitely, out of line! Not only was her comment mean towards the congregants but she also showed her displeasure with her husband. Her comment undermined her husband's leadership in the church. It also, showed she was carnal-minded and in great need of spiritual teaching. We are to freely give and love others,unconditionally. If she chooses not to give,that's fine. But if we do choose to give, it should be done cheerfully and in good spirits. She did more harm than good with her insensitive comment. She needs to read the entire book of Galatians. These carnal leaders in the church now, makes you want to go to Hell!
---Robyn on 10/8/10


What's God's storehouse today? Isn't it where we may find "the bread of life"?
---ann on 10/8/10

No, ann. There is no storehouse today. The storehouse is explained well in the scriptures (even the dimensions) as a place to store the grain. The pouring out of blessing referred to in Malachi refer to rain. In Nehemiah 10:38 we learn that the Levites would take a tithe of the tithe to the Temple. It is this tithe, the tithe from the Levites, that went to the storehouse, not the tithe from the people. The tithe from the people went to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities. See Nehemiah 10:37.
---Gary on 10/8/10


Gary,

I guess we just disagree about these things.

I agree with you that giving and equality are good. But I still would also pay the tithe - even if it would make my daily needs seem difficult to cover. I believe God will provide for us when we give our lives to Him. As the song says: "Trust and obey..."

"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. but ye say: Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings... Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith... if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour out a blessing..." Mal.3:8-10

What's God's storehouse today? Isn't it where we may find "the bread of life"?
---ann on 10/8/10


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MarkV,

What makes you think I am against giving? The tithe was a PAYMENT.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

Being Spirit led, I find myself giving far more than ten percent of my income, but have friends who cannot give anywhere near ten percent of their income and still put food on the table.
---Gary on 10/8/10


//If Jacob didn't pay the tithe to God, he was a liar.//

For what it is worth, Jacob was known as a deceiver. He deceived his own father and his brother.
---Rod4Him on 10/8/10


Gary, if you don't mind, i would like to ask you why you are so hostile against giving and speaking negatively against the visible Church? I know that sometimes people go through some experience and that experience leads them in a different way of looking at things that they never did before. Can you give your testimony on that if it's ok? Thanks. It is alway good to hear testimonies, because many times many of us have not experience that before.
---MarkV. on 10/8/10


ann,

No one follows Abraham's example of GIVING, not paying, a tenth of war spoils today, keeping nothing for themselves. You can't assume that Abraham gave a tenth of anything else at any other time. I also cannot assume that he didn't. Therefore, you can't use Abraham as a legitimate example to tithe on your income on a regular basis anymore than I can use Abraham as a legitimate example to tithe one time in my life.

No pastor teaches that you should follow Jacob's example to try and bargain with God, to put conditions on God before you will tithe.

Neither example is taught or followed today.
---Gary on 10/7/10


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Max, I believe she was wrong because she assumed that all of those she spoke to had the same intend in their hearts. I support Lin's view because many church's function different. Just because a pastor has many services, it does not mean we have to attend all of them. We as believers do what we believe to be right in our hearts.
Second, when Jesus set the standards, they were the highest standards. When He said leave everyone and follow Me, He could not mean to just leave everyone, He was giving an example of how high our standards should be, the highest we can. If a church follows the ten percent, it does not mean we have to, we give what we can afford. I have not seen a pastor during service call someone's name out who hasn't given.
---MarkV. on 10/7/10


The Geneva Bible at S. Iohn 10:8-9 explains,
These large termes must be applied to the matter he speaketh of. And therefore when he calleth himselfe the doore, he calleth all them theeves and robbers which take vpon them this name of Doore, which none of the Prophets can, for they shewed the sheepe that Christ was the doore.
Onely Christ is the true Pastor, and that only is the true Church, which acknowledgeth him to be properly their onely Pastor: To him are opposite theeves which feed not the sheepe, but kill them: and hirelings also, which forsake the flock in time of danger, because they feed it onely for their owne profit and gaines.

Excellent interpretation of the Geneva Bible... and it's Theodore Beza's comments.
---Kev on 10/6/10


Gary, I feel sorry that you are only familiar with pastors and churches that you made reference to! But, let me assure you that there YET are good, HONEST, HARDWORKING pastors who are on duty 24 hours/7 days a week! Many have regular jobs as well as church pastors. They have to because the church salary is low and they accept that and are devoted just the same! Dont let the events in the media make you think that every pastor or church is evil. Seek and you will find a good pastor and good church. However, NO ONE is forcing you to do so!
---Lin on 10/6/10


Gary,

I don't mind if Abraham only payed tithe from the spoils. It's logic, as this was what he had just received. The point is that he payed it, and not just to anyone, but to Melchizedec, whose priesthood was a type of Jesus (Hebr.7).

If Jacob didn't pay the tithe to God, he was a liar.

He said: "And of ALL that thou shalt give me I WILL SURELY give the tenth unto thee." Gen.28:22

I know it's not written that he did it. But that doesn't mean he didn't do it. (It doesn't say that ate or washed neither, but I think he did...) But if we say he didn't, we accuse him for being a liar. And I don't think he would brake his promise to God (just compare to what happened to Ananias and Sapphira, Acts 5:1-11)
---ann on 10/6/10


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No one is going to attempt to force you to come to services twice on Sunday and during the week! A good Pastor suggests this for the good of your spiritual walk, i.e. bible study and prayer meetings build your walk with God. The gathering together with others almost like a family only strengthens your faith and encourages you for the week ahead. It is not just good enough to attend only Sunday a.m. Perhaps that is why the saints of God are so weak nowadays and are ignorant of the things of God!
---Lin on 10/6/10


Yes, the Church is to give and help, but shouldnt we also have in our hearts to give back to God, no questions asked?
---Lin

Shouldn't the church be willing to give and help those who ask, no questions Jeasked?

Shouldn't the church leaders be setting the example for others to see and follow, like Jesus did? They should be, but I've seen very little of it. Instead, what I've seen is the church leaders (mainly the pastor) always asking for money and volunteers for everything under the sun. They want you there for service on Sunday morning, Sunday evening, and then once or twice during the week. That's fine for the pastor who has no other job. Let the pastor get a regular job and see how many hours he spends at church.
---Gary on 10/5/10


OLD TESTAMENT - Proverbs 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

NEW TESTAMENT - 2 Timothy 2:6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

When was the last time you heard a pastor say that you should spend the FIRST part of your income on yourself and your family?

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

The New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.
---Gary on 10/5/10


Not many are saved who goes to church. Yes, the pastor's wife was out of place, and money hungry. She likes shopping, and steak dinners. I'm thinking so would you. Lets take some of the tithe money and treat the congregation.
---catherine on 10/5/10


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Pastors' wives hear and see alot of interaction between the pastor and his church members, things that they cannot share with others. Her statement was very brass and unthoughtful and should not have been said. But, perhaps, her statement reflects her seeing the Pastor being taken advantage of, which there are many 'TAKERS' in the church. And THIS DOES HAPPEN!
---Lin on 10/5/10


You would be surprised at how many church members ask and 'expect' help from the Church, calling the Pastor all hours of the day and nite, asking for Pastor to meet them at the hospital or jail cell to pray for their loved one, ask for money to pay bills and buy food, and etc. etc. And these same folks will not put a dime in the offering plate, will not volunteer and give back! So, maybe this Pastor's wife was voicing her frustration in seeing this! Yes, the Church is to give and help, but shouldnt we also have in our hearts to give back to God, no questions asked?
---Lin on 10/5/10


Every denomination I know of agrees that Abraham's tenth was on war spoils, including the SDA who are strong on tithing.

Re Jacob - Obviously tithing was not required at that time or Jacob could NOT have tried to make a deal with God. Jacob was a schemer and there is no evidence he ever tithed.

The NT teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.
---Gary on 10/5/10


"Abraham gave a tenth of the war spoils - nothing else. This is verified in Hebrews 7." Gary

You can't actually say he didn't give from nothing else. It just doesn't say.
But it might have been only the spoils.
But if he payed from the war spoils, then it should be considered a tenth of his INCOME.

"There is NO scripture showing that Jacob ever tithed." Gary

But how could he make a promise if the arrangement didn't exist in his days? And don't you think Jacob - Israel! - would have fulfilled such a promise to the God of heaven?

Why do you not like the arrangement of the tithe?
---ann on 10/5/10


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Your pastor's wife worship money/mammon and not God. That's the problem with big "churches" who claim to be Christian and doing the work of God. What they are doing is "take the name of the LORD thy God in vain" (Exodus 20:7) to burden and hang the yoke around the people. Basically, they fleece the flock instead of feed the flock.

Jesus declared, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." - Matthew 6:24
---christan on 10/4/10


ann,

Abraham gave a tenth of the war spoils - nothing else. This is verified in Hebrews 7. Also, the story doesn't say Abraham went home, gathered a tenth of everything and then brought it back to give.

There is NO scripture showing that Jacob ever tithed. The scripture only shows he made a vow to tithe, and only if God met Jacob's conditions.

In Matthew 23:23 Jesus agreed they should have tithed on their HERBS AND SPICES, not their income, and they were still under the Levitical priesthood.
---Gary on 10/4/10


"How could the war spoils be considered his income if they didn't belong to him? Abraham, himself, said he wouldn't accept anything belonging to someone else." - Gary

I'm glad you said this. I too didn't actually think Abraham payed the tithe from the spoils, - but from his own property. As it says:

"And he gave him tithes OF ALL." Gen.15:20

But he wasn't the only one (BEFORE the 12 tribes and the sanctuary service even existed). Even JACOB did! After he'd seen the ladder, he said:

"And of ALL that thou shalt give me I WILL SURELY give the tenth unto thee." Gen.28:22

Even Jesus encouraged the pharisees to continue the practice of paying tithe (Matt.23:23)!
---ann on 10/4/10


ann,

A money offering was used for the service of the Tabernacle. See Exodus 30:14-16.

There are several places in Scripture indicating that scales were used to weigh metals and other items. The Law of Moses, for example, commands Jews not to use dishonest standards, but instead, to use honest scales and honest weights.

A reference to a pre-law money standard is in Genesis:23:16.

Gods people gave money to support the tabernacle (Ex. 30:14-16, 38:24-31).

The tithe was on assets, NOT income, or money.
---Gary on 10/2/10


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absolutely yes
---tom2 on 10/3/10


Genesis 13:2 And Abram [was] very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.
Genesis 23:15-16 My lord, hearken unto me: the land [is worth] four hundred shekels of silver, what [is] that betwixt me and thee? bury therefore thy dead. And Abraham hearkened unto Ephron, and Abraham weighed to Ephron the silver, which he had named in the audience of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, current [money] with the merchant.
No money in those days?
These 2 verses happened within 62 years of each other and it would appear that several different tribes used a standard.
---micha9344 on 10/2/10


(And if the war spoils was his portion, it could be considered as his income.)
Like I said, coins had not been invented in those days...
---ann on 10/1/10

How could the war spoils be considered his income if they didn't belong to him? Abraham, himself, said he wouldn't accept anything belonging to someone else.

Whether they had coins or not is not an issue. They had money, and money was NOT tithable. What difference does it make whether the money was silver, gold, paper, coins, or something else?
---Gary on 10/2/10


"Abraham gave a tenth of WAR SPOILS which didn't even belong to him. He kept nothing for himself. He didn't give a tenth of his income. Biblical historians agree that it was custom to give a tenth of war spoils to the king during the days of Abraham."-Gary

Perhaps the custum was so....

But Abraham didn't give the tithe to the king of Sodom. He let him have everything of the war spoils (except the portion to his confederates). Why? See Gen.14:23!

But before this he gave tithe to Melchizedek, who was "PRIEST OF THE MOST HIGH GOD" (Gen.14:18).

(And if the war spoils was his portion, it could be considered as his income.)
Like I said, coins had not been inventet in those days...
---ann on 10/1/10


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she was totally out of place. the five thousand people jesus feed and the four thousands as well, did any of them ever put money in the bank account of jesus ministry? what she said, only prove her selfness. i am sorry if my point os harsh but those behaviours do the gospel much harm. thank.
---Toe on 9/29/10


ann - Abraham gave a tenth of WAR SPOILS which didn't even belong to him. He kept nothing for himself. He didn't give a tenth of his income. Biblical historians agree that it was custom to give a tenth of war spoils to the king during the days of Abraham.

What Abraham did was NOT carried forward into the later law. God didn't want a tenth of the war spoils as proven under the Levitical priesthood. God asked for only 1.1%, not a tenth, of the war spoils. See Numbers 31 and do the math.

No one is following Abraham's example today.
---Gary on 9/29/10


/The tithe ONLY affected the 12 tribes of Israel./-Gary

Why then, long before there were 12 tribes of Israel, did Abraham give tithe to Melchizedek, "king of Salem", who was "priest of the most high God"?

"And he gave him tithes of all." (Gen.14:20)

Abraham's meeting with Melchizedek was special. (If you read the story, you'll see that it is about giving back to God, and practically: to those who serve him.)

But who was Melchizedek?
"Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patricarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils." Hebr.7:4
At least he was a type of Christ (read the whole chapter)
---ann on 9/29/10


As I said, ann, you don't understand what the tithe was all about.

The tithe ONLY affected the 12 tribes of Israel. Eleven inherited the promised land, and THEY had to tithe to the 12th tribe.

The tithe was ASSETS that came from God's hand, NOT income from man's labor. NO ONE was commanded to tithe on their income, and they did have income.

Those who teach that tithing is giving back to God a tenth of what you earn are either ignorant or liars.

Church leaders have essentially diluted the tithe from Gods miracles to mans achievements. In other words, in the tithing formula, man has replaced God with himself!
---Gary on 9/28/10


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Actually we are not under law and there is no more tithing. The shepherds teach the wrong gospel they teach part of the Kingdom Gospel part of the Law Old Testament and part of the Epistles wherein they should only be teaching the Epistles of the Apostle Paul which does include Hebrews.

Here is you answer.
(Gal 5:18 [KJV])
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

(2Cor 3:4-6 [NET])
Now we have such confidence in God through Christ.
Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as if it were coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
who made us adequate to be servants of a new covenant not based on the letter but on the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
---Royal_Swann on 9/28/10


/you don't understand the tithe.-Gary/

...eh, I don't understand what you mean I don't understand?

And concerning the way of paying the tithe:

I didn't say metal was not used as a exchange value. It was - and the texts you mention refers to them (The standard (measurement) was: weight!) But coins (which have no other standard than what is prescribed (and inscribed) to them) were not invented until later (about 700 BC).
But that doesn't change anything about the tithe and the principle behind it. The way of paying it (crops, metal, coins, paper money, credit card...) should not really matter...
---ann on 9/28/10


Max...How many times have you asked for help from the church??????
---KarenD on 9/27/10


ann - you don't understand the tithe. Crops and animals were assets from God's hand, not man's labor.

They did have money then. How could Deut. say to convert the crops to money, go to where the feast is to take place, and buy the food you want?

They had money even in Genesis. How is it that they collected the Temple tax with money? Offerings for the Tabernacle were given in money. Slaves were purchases and sold for money. Money is all throughout the Bible before you even get to the tithe.
---Gary on 9/27/10


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Many say that in Biblical times they didnt have money and that the economy was based on bartering. That is not so. The Bible shows they not only had money, but that money was used as a common way of doing business.

In order for money to be an exchangeable equivalent for other commodities in todays society, there must be a standard in place. Likewise, the Old Testament also had a set standard both prior to the law and during the law. A reference to a pre-law standard is in Genesis:23:16.

Merchants in biblical times traveled from place to place conducting business. According to the written law, the standard weight for metals was set according to the sanctuary shekel (See also Ex 30:13, 24, 38:24-26, Lev. 5:15, Num. 7:13-86, 18:16).
---Gary on 9/27/10


It's not anything strange with the payment of tithe with only food (goods) in the Old Testament. Coins were not invented yet. According to numismatics the coins originated about 600-550 BC in Anatolia (Turkey).Some say the oldest is from 700 BC.

Anyway, the tithe was God's part of the value, whatever it was - crops, animals, gold.... or coins (when they became a value system). To us it will be natural to use money... But to a farmer in Kandahari it could perhaps be natural with animals and crops, like in the old days.

The prinsiple of giving BACK a certain part to God from the GREAT blessing HE HAS GIVEN US, must be the most important part, independent of the circumstances :o) Then we'll never forget that HE's the giver!
---ann on 9/27/10


Amber - For your info, tithes consisted of crops and animals ONLY. Nothing else was allowed for The Lord's Tithe.

Other items were offerings. Remember, tithe means a tenth. The Lord's Tithe was a payment, not a gift or an offering.
---Gary on 9/27/10


\\If the tithe could have been money why were they commanded to convert it BACK to food?\\

Don't forget. They could convert it to booze, too.

But they didn't pay it as a tithe. It because the basis of a sacred ritual banquet.

It's party time in Palestine!
---Cluny on 9/27/10


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Yes! The pastor's wife was way off in her comment of placing a condition on whether or not a person is worthy to be helped by the church. She is not walking in love and obedience to God's word. The church is God's people, not the benevolance fund. The bible teaches to provide first for one another within the Church before providing for outsiders. Tithes and offerings are a covenant between God and man. God said if you bring in all the tithes and the offerings into My storehouse (the Church) that there be meat in My house (supplies for the needy and provisions for the preists), test Me says the Lord and see if I will not open the windows of heaven and pour out such a blessing that you will not have room enough to contain it all.
---Amber on 9/27/10


We know produce and animals are not the only tithes. People brought in monatary oferings, there was gold and silver in the temple. Jesus taught the disciples as they watched people put money in the offering. Remember the widow who put in all that she had? We have a very powerful covenant if people will give to God in faith and love. God's desire that we prosper and be in good health even as OUR SOULS PROSPER. He increases us as we grow in understanding and learn to be good stewards over what He has given us. We need compassion on those who are in need and lack understanding. Love is patient, love is kind. Love doesn't rejoice in injustice. Love believes the best of everyone. Love never fails.
---Amber on 9/27/10


Obewan, you are correct. The OT tithe was ONLY food - from crops and animals, nothing else.

In Deut., the tithe was the crops. Then they could take their tithe and sell it for money, take the money, then buy the food to replace the food they sold. Just as you said.

They could NOT have started with the money and then buy the food. The money was not the tithe.
---Gary on 9/27/10


max, yup she was out of place TOTALLY.

Tell her the bible says, Give and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down, runneth over.....

Obviously her mind is still carnal and not transformed to the renewing of her mind with the Word of God.

God said he would multiply our giving a hundred fold, not a hundred persent, but a hundred fold.

So tell her to read her bible a little more closely. Also, tell her you forgive her too!!
---Donna5535 on 9/27/10


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Here is wisdom.
" but GOD, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, would NEVER base their helping you upon your $$$ tithes. GOD's help is FREE. The Bible says that we should give FREELY too" from---Sag on 9/26/10
---mima on 9/27/10


Yes, God is love, not a commodity that can be bought: and no one can buy God's favor. And the Lord is insulted and moved to anger by those whom advertize and misrepresent him in this cursed way. Thus says the Lord: "My seed is mine own offspring, mine holy seed is not any money from man, says the Almighty."
---Eloy on 9/27/10


\\Remember, in the OT tithes were always food only - even though there was money during that time period.
---Obewan on 9/26/10\\

That's not what the Bible actually says.

Deut 14:24-26.
---Cluny on 9/26/10

Cluny, that is the very passage I would cite to prove my point.

If the food was too big to carry, it was converted to money which was then used to buy food at the temple location. If the tithe could have been money why were they commanded to convert it BACK to food?
---Obewan on 9/26/10


If you will read what I said, you'll see that I denied the notion that OT tithes were always agricultural.

Whenever I put something between \\ \\, it means I'm quoting someone else--or did you notice that? (Some symbols don't show up on all computers.)
---Cluny on 9/26/10


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So, Cluny...
When was the last time you sold 1/10 of the increase in your crops and/or cattle because the way was too far only to get there, buy something again, and share it with any Levites in town?
Else these verses are a poor example of the point that is trying to be made.
---micha9344 on 9/26/10


\\Remember, in the OT tithes were always food only - even though there was money during that time period.
---Obewan on 9/26/10\\

That's not what the Bible actually says.

Deut 14:24-26.
---Cluny on 9/26/10


She was VERY out of place. How you tithe has nothing to do with it getting any for of help from your pastor, or at least it shouldn't have anything to do with it. It may have been, "just a bad hair day". You may want to be-friend her too - maybe she's been ignored by you or someone else in the church. It's not easy being a pastor's wife - maybe she just needs a little love and recognition for what she's done and not just stand in his shadow and being refered to as, "The pastor's wife". Most people don't realize that behind every married pastor is usually a wife who does much of the behind the scenes work while he gets all the glory and credit.
---wivv on 9/26/10


I wouldn't say that all the "experiences" -- that anyone has -- in ANY church -- are necessarily all "fair", "bibilcal", etc. It's just that the church belongs to the Pastor and his Wife and they can run it as they desire. That includes saying rather "cruel" things like you heard.

I wouldn't say that the Pastor's wife was "out-of-place", but GOD, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, would NEVER base their helping you upon your $$$ tithes. GOD's help is FREE. The Bible says that we should give FREELY too.

My church recently asked members for MORE $$$ to build a new youth worship center. I plan to contribute $0.00 towards that project. I don't know about other folks.
---Sag on 9/26/10


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That pastor or his wife obviously have never done a topical study in the OT on tithing.

A full 1/3 of all tithes were used to support those in need. I don't think there were any conditions.

Many OT scholars also maintain that only farmers, herders, and agrarian members of the tribes of Israel were even required to tithe.

Remember, in the OT tithes were always food only - even though there was money during that time period.
---Obewan on 9/26/10


I would like to see scripture to support her method.
But I won't
---alan8566_of_uk on 9/26/10


YES! Being a Chrisitan congregation you should help both members & non membes reguardless of tithing.Some churches can offer more then others. We use to attend a church that is a mega church & they helped us with rent a couple times in the past year & we do not tithe there nor attend there anymore however it is called helping the needy. She was out of place & her husband should correct her on her duties.
---Candice on 9/26/10


She might have intended it as a joke.

Cut her at least the same amount of slack you'd like to have cut for your at the Last Judgement.

Of course, now you see why he's the pastor and she isn't.
---Cluny on 9/26/10


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Pray for her, and ask the Lord if she was out of place. Scripture says that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves, and that applies to the pastor and his family.

If you feel led, you might want to talk to her about this remark, and even take someone with you who also heard her remark.
---Trish on 9/26/10


My guess is that she is very nice to the face. Chances are the pastor is kind and nice.

She is fully within her freedom to decide whichever way that she wants treated by Jesus.
---aka on 9/26/10


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