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Future Tribulation Coming

Revelation 7:14, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Is this speaking of a tribulation yet to come.

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 ---mima on 10/1/10
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in Job the Spiritual realm affects the natural so too in Daniel and Revelation,the Bride is taken to the wedding and prepared for the 1000 yr earthly reign of Messiah,we are joined by the Elect of Israel and the wicked become ashes beneath our feet (Mal ch 4)when we return.
---richard on 12/23/10


The delusion many have is not understanding that the WRATH is yet to come. Christians enter the Kingdom through tribulation. Christians also cease from sin through suffering..as peter tells us in 1st Peter 4, but the GREAT tribulation unlike anything the world has yet known is GOD'S WRATH...called the Day of the Lord, AKA the Time of Jacob's trouble.

And it's delusional people who don't know the difference.

You actually believe the wrath of God came in 70AD upon the whole world?

That's delusional indeed!
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10


Ok lets use represents -
---RICHARD on 12/19/10


\\ISRAEL - in the Bible is reputational of the Kingdom of God - Jesus is refer to as the King of of Israel - MATTHEW 27:42 - Israel also reputational of - people in the churches.\\

What is the word "reputational" supposed to mean?

It's in no dictionary that I have.
---Cluny on 12/19/10


ISRAEL - in the Bible is reputational of the Kingdom of God - Jesus is refer to as the King of of Israel - MATTHEW 27:42 - Israel also reputational of - people in the churches.

MIMA 12/16/10 - but certainly not all going up in the air.

2 THESSALONIANS 4:17 Then we which are alive remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall ever be with the Lord.
---RICHARD on 12/18/10




//Granted, post-trib would mix up the Church and Israel.//
Couldn't agree more, seeing the "trib" whenever it is, is a prophesied event for the nation of Israel, and the BOC is not prophesied, give to Israel what is Israel's, Give the BOC what belongs to us.
//Romans 9-11 "should" debunk//
I agree
---michael_e on 12/16/10


The pre-tribulation rapture is correct. But certainly were not all going to go up in the air.
---mima on 12/16/10


\\That is completely pointless...lets all go up in the clouds and come back down again\\
---richard on 12/13/10


\\That's EXACTLY what the Bible says will happen.

WE do the U-turn in mid-air, not Jesus.\\
---Cluny on 12/14/10


The Greek word for us meeting Jesus is one which was used for a band of dignitaries going out of a city to meet a royal visitor coming to their city. They would go give him a royal reception, then usher him in. The word means coming from two different directions. Us from here, Jesus from heaven. NOT us to heaven first, then us and Him coming from the same place.
---James_L on 12/15/10


//Likewise, I see post-trib as speculation with negative results. The most frequent I see is the belief that the Church the Body of Christ is somehow spiritual or replacement Israel.//

I don't see how post-trib promotes replacement theology. God can still deal with Israel. Granted, post-trib would mix up the Church and Israel. However, it seems to be mixed up anyway with the belief that Israel is in the land now because of "end times."

Replacement Theology is another but related topic. Romans 9-11 should debunk Israel being totally forever replaced. The speculation is how this all works out.
Romans absolutely abhors the idea of anti semitism. That is not speculation.
---Rod4Him on 12/16/10


//John on 12/15/10When you pray for a Pri-trib rapture.//
I don't recall mentioning that I pray for a pre-trib rapture, so I realy don't know what you are talking about.
---michael_e on 12/16/10




Michael, You are arguing symantics.

When you pray for a Pri-trib rapture. Your prayer will be in sharp opposition to Jesus prayer "I DO NOT pray you remove them..."

So... Cluny's point is valid. Because in essence you are competing with Christ for G-d ears and hoping G-d will answer you and not Him.

Very Scarry Place to be!!!
---John on 12/15/10


//Do you DENY that those who believe in the pre-trib rapture are saying this?//
//"Don't listen to Jesus! You take us out of this world."//
Of course I deny any "believer" says don't listen to Jesus.
Do you say "Don't listen to Jesus, You leave me here to suffer.
---michael_e on 12/15/10


\\Because you use very little scripture to back up your "thoughts"

The rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus! You take us out of this world."//
where did you read this?
---michael_e on 12/14/10\\

Do you DENY that those who believe in the pre-trib rapture are saying this?

The pre-trib rapture (aka dispensationalism) is taught NOWHERE in the Bible, nor was it ever believed ANYWHERE before 1830.
---Cluny on 12/14/10


//Where did you get the idea I was quoting internet commentaries?//
Because you use very little scripture to back up your "thoughts"

The rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus! You take us out of this world."//
where did you read this?
---michael_e on 12/14/10


\\lets all go up in the clouds and come back down again..\\

That's EXACTLY what the Bible says will happen.

WE do the U-turn in mid-air, not Jesus.
---Cluny on 12/14/10


That is completely pointless...lets all go up in the clouds and come back down again..the point of a rapture is to go to the wedding while tribulation takes its course on the earth,it is God ordained anyway just as the flood and the ark..
---richard on 12/13/10


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Breaking News:The tents of the Saints and the Beloved city are not fooled by the "Left Behind" movie
---Kev on 12/12/10


\\maybe you could quote from the Bible and not the internet or commentaries,just what YOU believe. I know it might be tough, but give it a try.
---michael_e on 10/7/10\\

Where did you get the idea I was quoting internet commentaries?

The consistent teaching of the Church from the times of the Apostles is that Christians would go through the Tribulation. At the end, Jesus returns in glory as judge, we (living and dead) are caught up to escort Him down to earth as He begins the last Judgment.

Jesus prayed, "Do not take them out of this world, but keep them safe from the evil one."

The rapturist prays, "Don't listen to Jesus! You take us out of this world."
---Cluny on 12/12/10


...think Jewish young scribe!
---richard on 12/12/10


YES!

This speaks of the Great and Final Tribulation that Christians will go through before the Last Day when the Lord will reappear.

NOTE:

The word tribulation comes from the noun Tribul.
It is a small sled with stones underneath.
It was used to separate the Chaff from the Wheat.

Thus its use in Scripture and in this passage in particular.

Do NOT confuse Tribulation with Wrath!

Wrath is reserved for the wicked.

Tribulation is reserved for the Believers.
(a test of faith)
---John on 12/11/10


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Once more to the bridge,dear friends.....is some one yet aware that Jesus called this the time of Jacobs sorrow!..truly the events of last days are for the benefit and final deliverance of Israel...back to the book,back to the book..you are not wise!
---richard on 12/8/10


There are some on here who discredit their own notion of a rapture(not what the rapture truly is but what they believe it to mean).Ok lets leave it aside and view the alternative..which is a manifestation of the sons of God..man those are the guys to be sucked in by Anti-Christ....gaurd you well...
---richard on 12/8/10


Aka/Steven, I agree. Many have died through tribulation. Historically God's people have gone through intense suffering. All disciples of Jesus, except for John, were brutally murdered. Thousands of early Christians were torn to shreds by wild dogs inside the coliseum. Millions of others were horribly tortured by the Inquistion and burn to ashes during the Dark Ages, and believers in Russia and China have suffered terribly under Communism, and yet Christians say, "God wouldn't allow us to go through the tribulation." Jesus told His follower's "In the world you will have tribulation" John 16:33. Paul told his early Christians "we must through many tribulations enter the Kingdom of God" Acts 14:22.
---MarkV. on 10/19/10


Aka 2: I disagree with Donna where she says the Elect can be deceived. The passage indicates if it was possible. "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, "if possible, even the elect. This clearly implies that such deception is not possible for if you go to John 10:4,5 it says, "And when He brings out His own sheep, He goes before them, and the sheep follow Him, for they know His voice. Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers"
---MarkV. on 10/19/10


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Catherine, I notice that you post just like Eloy. Is he your brother or are you his alter-ego name? Eloy has done this in the past.
---Elder on 10/19/10


Well, anyone can memorize Scripture, yet he does not know how to spell>>>God aka Jesus Christ! Now, that's gooood spelling.
---catherine on 10/19/10


//Cluny, you would be much, much, better off if you would admit that Jesus Christ is the TRUE living GOD! // - catherine

I have never known Cluny not to admit Jesus Christ is the TRUE living GOD!

I have witnessed that your words are not necessarily the words of Jesus Christ, the true living God.
---aka on 10/18/10


Cluny, you would be much, much, better off if you would admit that Jesus Christ is the TRUE living GOD! What in this world have you got to lose, besides HELL....Here is a warning from this true, living GOD: STOP IT.
---catherine on 10/18/10


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I study because God has lead me into it. I enjoy learning when God is in it and He is the teacher. I absolutely love the Revelations that God gives to me when I am studying. It's like light-bulbs going off around me. Also, I enjoy studying so I can call Satan down for the liar that he is. Hallelujah....These are only a few of the reasons. I am sure that God will give me some more!
---catherine on 10/18/10


\\That is something that I just do not know enough about. Everytime I study all those different views. My mind does something, funny.
---catherine on 10/12/10\\

How strange, catherine!

Why do you have to study at all? You're always telling us that you receive information directly from the familiars you call "god" and "jesus."
---Cluny on 10/17/10


Christians are so vain to think that they will be saved from tribulation
****

although rapture DUPES MANY into a carefree careless "christian life" it also subtly promotes irresponsibility assuming one can live any way they choose then be whisked away to heaven simply by claiming Christ as their savior - entirely unsupported by Holy Scripture

however to believe a Christian is VAIN sells a LIE that Christ LIED when HE stated to pray to be accounted worthy to escape the times of trouble and HE would protect his flock

OT gives examples of Hebrews being protected

True Christians are PROMISED protection during the greatest times of trouble just before Christ returns to establish Gods Kingdom on Earth
---Rhonda on 10/16/10


//AND HERE'S SOMEONE WHO SHARES THAT SAME "OPINION"...
JESUS CHRIST SAID...
MATT 24:29-31
JOHN 6: 39,49, 44, 54
JOHN 11:24
JOHN 12:48
JOHN 17:15
-----------------
DAN 12:1-3
CASE CLOSED!!!//
All OT John
The trib is a prophesied physical event for the nation of israel, not the BoC.
Can you find any prophecy for the CHURCH the BoC or any place it is mentioned other than Pauline epistles? Can you find prophecy for meeting Christ in the air?
---michael_e on 10/14/10


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Amen....Steveng on 10/11/10

I sooo agree with you one thousand percent.

I believe the great test of a true believer will be during the tribulation. I believe Jesus said, "if possible, even the elect can be deceived." So what did Jesus mean by that? "If possible?"

I think it means it's possible that even the elect can be deceived.

Christians, blood bought, born again, spirit filled are definitely going to go through the tribulation...it will be our last test of faith (hopefully) and IF we pass it...then up we go.

There is no pre-trib rapture!!!!
---Donna5535 on 10/14/10


That is something that I just do not know enough about. Everytime I study all those different views. My mind does something, funny.
---catherine on 10/12/10


Christians are so vain to think that they will be saved from tribulation while millions of christians throughout history, and who are living today, have died because of tribulation.

Christians are living at this time through the tribulation, but do not recognize it as tribulstion because they are living through it.

The tribulation if for end time christians to separate the wheat from the chafe, the christians from the ones they call themselves christians, but who are not.
---Steveng on 10/11/10


Just prior to Jesus' sign being seen in heaven (Matthew 24:31), Jesus said that his "followers" would go through a "Great Tribulation." (Matthew 24:9, 29)

Not the world itself. "The world" will be the source of their tribulation.

The Book of Revelation message was not addressed to the world, but to Christs followers, "to show his servants what must soon take place." (Rev 1:1)

A Great Tribulation will come, but it is very far into the future as the world will be an entirely different place. There will be an entirely new beastly system of ruler ship over the earth. It will be the source of tribulation upon Christs "faithful" followers.
---R._Jerome_Harris on 10/10/10


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Rev 7 tribulation period prophesied for Israel.

Jere. 30:7 "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it."
(God dealing with His Covenant people(Israel) and for this reason they are still coming back to their homeland, getting ready for these final seven years.

Matt. 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come"
This Gospel of the Kingdom is the same as Jesus preached to Israel in his earthly ministry
Not the Gospel of Grace, preached to the BoC.
---michael_e on 10/10/10


tribulation - distress or suffering resulting from oppression or persecution, also : a trying experience.

notice how it says great tribulation and not the Great Tribulation? Paul, Stephen, and John (for example) came out of great tribulation. Where is "The Great Tribulation" written in scripture?

I believe we are experiencing greater and greater tribulation everyday. American "christians" for the most part do not know what tribulation is yet. i would not wait for a rapture to spare you. Jesus said in His name you will suffer. and, He did not mean only being able to say Happy Holidays during Christmas.
---aka on 10/7/10


//Right. The same as the Bible's.
---Cluny on 10/7/10//
maybe you could quote from the Bible and not the internet or commentaries,just what YOU believe. I know it might be tough, but give it a try.
---michael_e on 10/7/10


**//There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Cluny on 10/7/10 //
your "opinion" is just that.
---michael_e on 10/7/10**

Right. The same as the Bible's.
---Cluny on 10/7/10


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//There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Cluny on 10/7/10 //
your "opinion" is just that.
---michael_e on 10/7/10
AND HERE'S SOMEONE WHO SHARES THAT SAME "OPINION"...
JESUS CHRIST SAID...
MATT 24:29-31
JOHN 6: 39,49, 44, 54
JOHN 11:24
JOHN 12:48
JOHN 17:15
-----------------
DAN 12:1-3

CASE CLOSED!!!

And.... on YOUR side is a Occultist Witch by the name of Margaret MacDonald (Google it).
who started this nonsense in a seance attended by John Darby who passed it John Scoffield who added it his study bible in America. It is a heresy started just 140 years ago.

I think CLUNY is in good company on this one!
---JOHN on 10/7/10


//There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Cluny on 10/7/10 //
your "opinion" is just that.
---michael_e on 10/7/10


\\truth is always worth repeating
---michael_e on 10/7/10\\

You're right.

There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Cluny on 10/7/10


//This is talking about those who come out of the Great Tribulation..there will be 7 years of Tribulation after (yes I said After) the Rapture takes place..3 1/2 years will be the first part, and 3 1/3 years of the second part, the second part of the Tribulation is the great Tribulation. Which I believe will be the Jews who come to realize that Jesus is the Son of God!
---a_friend on 10/3/10//

truth is always worth repeating
---michael_e on 10/7/10


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\\This is talking about those who come out of the Great Tribulation..there will be 7 years of Tribulation after (yes I said After) the Rapture takes place\\

Those looking for a pre-trib rapture will be among the first to give their loyalty to Antichrist.

Jesus said, "I pray that You NOT take them out of the world, but keep them safe from the Evil One."

The rapturist prays, "Don't You listen to Jesus! You take us OUT of this world!"
---Cluny on 10/6/10


Some say it's not. Believe what you will. Some believe that the great tribulation refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Revelation 3:10 tells me this is just not possible. Observe as the Lord speaks to a church of that era, arguably according to the accepted date of the writings (90AD) AFTER that event-

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
---Peter on 10/3/10


This is talking about those who come out of the Great Tribulation..there will be 7 years of Tribulation after (yes I said After) the Rapture takes place..3 1/2 years will be the first part, and 3 1/3 years of the second part, the second part of the Tribulation is the great Tribulation. Which I believe will be the Jews who come to realize that Jesus is the Son of God!
---a_friend on 10/3/10


I think it is indeed a tribulation yet to come--ugh! And since I don't believe in pre-trib rapture, I think I better make sure my heart is ready, even if so, I want to make sure my heart is ready for Jesus WHENEVER.
---Mary on 10/1/10


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I would say that there would be no tribulation if not for the lucifer rebellion.So the tribulation began soon after the lucifer revolt got underway.
This world is surely experiencing a tribulation from lucifer's defection that is ongoing and will be for some time.
Opinion
The verse reads,"These are they which came out of great tribulation",not out of a great tribulation.The time frame is not defined.So as far as a "tribulation yet to come "within the scope of biblical history there is no support of any tribulation that has ever stopped and then restarted all over again.However, some ages may be known as having more severe tribulation than others,not [a] more severe tribulation..
---earl on 10/1/10


MarkV, you asked ''I was hoping to get information from you about Revelations, where things were changed. I could use that help if you have it.''

The most important works that Iohn Caluin and Theodore Beza did at Geneva was translate the English Geneva Bible and the French Geneva Bible (and publishing The Institution of the Christian Religion).

The 1557 Geneva New Testament (The Epistle written by Iohn Caluin), the 1560 Geneva Bible, and the 1576 Geneva New Testament text translated out of Greek by Theodore Beza all altogether faithfully translated Revelation 20:4 and 6 ''a thousand yere''. The gloss explains, That is, for euer.

The Anglican Church Bishops Bible 1568/1611 KJV/ and modern versions changed that to ''yeres''.
---Kev on 10/1/10


So have most commentators said.
---Cluny on 10/1/10


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