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Heaven Or New Earth

Will followers of Christ live in Heaven or will we live forever on the new Earth?

Good people that do not accept Christ while they are alive are they saved by grace because the bible does mention every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord?

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 ---RC on 10/2/10
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Francis, And GOD says in ACTS 10:9-17 "Rise Peter, kill, and eat!" "What GOD hath cleansed, that, call not thou 'common'." This was spoken when GOD gave Peter a Dream where he was to eat the foods that were UNCLEAN from Old Testament Times. When Peter refused, the LORD chided him to not call unclean that which HE has now made clean. It's really talking about receiving Gentiles who become saved as a part of the Church. But, the LORD blesses whatever is eaten with a clean conscience and with Thanksgiving to HIM.
---Gordon on 10/15/10


-Cluny on 10/15/10

lets see what the BIBLE says:
OT:
Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
NT:
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek,.. in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
Ephesians 2:14 who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us,

God has never made any law based on ethnicity. Acts 10:34 Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
---francis on 10/15/10


\\So who is right?
---francis on 10/14/10\\

Not you, because these restrictions have NEVER been obligatory upon Gentiles, as any Jew will tell you.
---Cluny on 10/15/10


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Francis - there is no qualifier on the word 'law' in this view.

The writer of the book of Hebrews was Jewish and thus we have no choice but to conclude that the 'law' being referred to here has to be the Mosaic law.

And the law of Moses is the entire Mosaic legislation and that includes such novelties as the Sabbath and the dietary laws.

So a change in the law was initiated by the introduction of the New Covenant which does not mandate adherence to laws that are strictly Jewish such as the Sabbath or dietary laws.

there is little no alternative but to reject your contention based upon the context of this letter.
---leej on 10/14/10


//such as not sleeping in the same bed as a menstruating woman, or not sitting in the same chair she has vacated?
Or not going to church if you've had an ejaculation the night before?
//--- Cluny

I actually giggled a little because we never think of these things anymore, and I rarely agree with Cluny, but hes right lol

You cant just take SOME of the law to obey it.
---JackB on 10/14/10




And yes, francis, swine meat is FOOD but suggest you cook it properly like other meats.
---leej on 10/14/10

and GOD SAYS:
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Leviticus 11:7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud, he [is] unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.


So who is right?
---francis on 10/14/10


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. ---micha9344 on 10/14/10

It is the law governing the priesthood that has changed, not the ten commands, or the dietary laws.

Whereas we went to an earthly high priest, we now go to Jesus directly, the heavenly high priest

Whereas we once sacrificed a lamb, now jesus is the sacrificed lamb
---francis on 10/14/10


What laws were change from the Old Covenant to the New?

Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, AND keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The law here refers to what is viewed as the Mosaic law.

Any simpleton should be able to see that the laws of Moses (by definition the entire Mosaic legislation including the Sabbath and dietary laws) was NOT NOT NOT NOT imposed on the Gentile church.

Of course, moral law has not been nor will it ever change since such was inherent from the creation itself and reflects the very nature of God Himself.
---leej on 10/14/10


Is francis trying again to say Christians are under the Old Covenant laws?

What francis wants us to believe is that the decision made at the Jerusalem council Acts 15 that Gentiles believers need not become Jewish was null and void.

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things,
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Of course, he may argue that the Apostles had only the Holy Ghost to guide them instead of Ellen White.
---leej on 10/14/10


francis, you're very much into the gospel of "Touch not, taste not, handle not," claiming scriptural support for your novelties from the Old Testament.

Tell me, do you also observe the OTHER precepts in the OT, such as not sleeping in the same bed as a menstruating woman, or not sitting in the same chair she has vacated?

Or not going to church if you've had an ejaculation the night before?

Or avoiding cheeseburgers? Or not wearing blended fabrics?

Or wearing earlocks or not shaving off your beard?

Or do you just pick and choose which commandments you want to put others in bondage to?
---Cluny on 10/14/10




Francis -//Clearly that fact that peter uses this same passage to declare the holIness of God, and ask us to be hOly should tell us that those who defile themsleves with these meats are unholy and unfit for heaven

What is VERY CLEAR is that francis makes himself of judge of other Christians. He obviously does not know the Word of God. For the Word of God very clearly states that we are not to judge others in regard to what they eat or drink.

Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

What is your problem Francis? Why do you stand in judgment of other Christians? Does your SDA religion give you those rights?
---leej on 10/14/10


And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

The law is not of faith

The just shall live by faith

We dont follow the law to attain righteousness but to show our love for GOd because of what HE has done for us.

We are not under the law. We are dead to the law. We died with Christ. The penalty has been paid.

The law is our guide to prove that which is acceptable in the sight of God. We follow it to bring praise to the Lord, not salvation to ourselves.
---JackB on 10/14/10


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. ---micha9344 on 10/14/10

can you possible show the laws which have changed from the BIBLE?

I Can
---francis on 10/14/10


//They may be very good people, based on how you define good. But they are not followers of Jesus christ.

Those saved in Christ are not always "good" people by their works.

Howbeit the legalist does not understand that the righteousness of Christ has been credited to the believer in Christ.1 Cor. 1:30.

The Bible says we are not justified (declared righteous) by works of the law but by faith in the finished work of our Lord.

Ro 3:28 For we hold that one is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH apart from works of the law.

Francis - when are you going to stop depending on your own righteousness for your salvation and accept the grace offered to you by the Lord?
---leej on 10/14/10


//Clearly ... peter uses this same passage to declare the holIness of God, and ask us to be hOly should tell us that those who defile themsleves with these meats are unholy and unfit for heaven.

You are referring to the vision when God commanded Peter to arise and eat food presented to him lowered on a sheet from heaven. Acts 10:13

Clearly God would NEVER ask someone to disobey any of His laws but there were no food restrictions on the Christian.

There are simply too many scripture that makes that abundantly clear.

1Co 8:8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.

And yes, francis, swine meat is FOOD but suggest you cook it properly like other meats.
---leej on 10/14/10


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:
Mat 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind...And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
---micha9344 on 10/14/10


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This is good
Notice that some are trying to do everything except OBEY GOD.

They may be very good people, based on how you define good. But they are not followers of Jesus christ.

So as good as they are they are not heaven bound.

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
---francis on 10/14/10


Leviticus 11:44 For I [am] the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and YE SHALL BE HOLY, for I [am] holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, BE YE HOLY, for I am holy.

Peter references the very same passages that tell us not to eat what God calls an abomination, and peter says that GOD IS HOLY, thus WE MUST BE HOLY ALSO

Clearly that fact that peter uses this same passage to declare the holIness of God, and ask us to be hOly should tell us that those who defile themsleves with these meats are unholy and unfit for heaven
---francis on 10/14/10


\\Leviticus 11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you,\\

Notice that God does not say, "Eating them is an abomination unto ME."

He says, "unto YOU." In other words, it was just for Jews, and never for Gentiles.

Furthermore, the word TOEVAH (abomination) never meant "sin in itself" but something more like "taboo" or "ewww--that's nasty."

And the Bible also says, "The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink," so stop trying to act like one's salvation depends on what one puts in his mouth. Jesus Himself said that's not the issue.
---Cluny on 10/14/10


Adam, Do not eat cows.
Noah, eat cows.
---micha9344 on 10/14/10


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how does God find and action to be an abomination one day, and acceptable the next day?

Seriously!

God sees eating certain foods the same way as he sees men being with men:

Leviticus 11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you, ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

How is it that a HOLY God can at one time say something is an ABOMINATION, and at the next say it is acceptable to Him?

MARK, LEEJ you have to see the flaw in your logic.
God does not change, WE MUST change that is the issue of heaven or hell
---francis on 10/14/10


francis -//when it comes to heaven and hell, it is a very simple thing. We either believe God or not.

Obviously you do not believe God as you would believe Jesus.

Mark 7:18f And he said to them, Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled? (Thus he declared all foods clean.) And he said, What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.
---leej on 10/13/10


Francis, you took what was meant for Israel and put that stumbling block on those who are saved by Grace through faith in the works of Christ on the cross and His resurrection.
While those passages you put down, they do give many great lessons. One, those words were directed at Israel. Two, it shows the Sovereignty of God and His wrath on those who do not obey. Three, that God nature never changes. Four, that those people were under the Law. Great lessons but Christ cleanse us with His own blood. No more purifying once self once a week, month or year. It was done by Christ once for all time, to all those who are saved by Grace and put their faith in Christ,
---MarkV. on 10/13/10


when it comes to heaven and hell, it is a very simple thing. We either believe God or not.

Numbers 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
---francis on 10/12/10


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Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with ALL FLESH : and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

WHEN WILL GOD COMES BACK WITH FURY?
ANY PERSON WHO CAN READ MUST FIGURE THAT THIS IS THE SECOND COMING, SO WHY IS THIS LIMITED ONLY TO JEWS?

God is not partial is he?
Eat swine burn in hell simple as that
---francis on 10/12/10


francis - GOD SAYS: Isaiah 66:17 They (Jewish people)that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Who is right?
------------------
You again ignore the CONTEXT!

Isaiah 66:20-21 speaks of the return of the Jews to their homeland after which God " will also take of them for priests and Levites, saith the LORD".

The Levitical system & priesthood looked forward to the ministry of Christ, Clearly there would be no need to re-institute a priesthood that offered animal sacrifices, temple work, etc.

So who is right? Obviously you are WRONG AGAIN.
---leej on 10/12/10


francis -but no one will be saved just because they are good,

Are you saying that one can be saved apart from observing the Jewish Sabbath or other commandments?

Remember olde Ellen white stated no one can rightfully say they are saved despite the fact that the Bible not only says one is saved by grace alone as works are simply a reflection of ones salvation. Eph. 2:8-10
---leej on 10/12/10


The bible does mention every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord.

those who are saved will confess that jesus is Lord and Just, those who are not saved will confess the same.

Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Isaiah 45:24 Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come, and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

but no one will be saved just because they are good,
---francis on 10/12/10


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---leej on 10/12/10 says: Think of it Francis, even those who eat pork and do not observe the Jewish Sabbath.( WILL BE SAVED)

GOD SAYS: Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Who is right?
---francis on 10/12/10


And all who have believed in Jesus will by his grace be saved and will have their names written in the Book of Life.

Think of it Francis, even those who eat pork and do not observe the Jewish Sabbath.

---leej on 10/12/10
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

If only you would use ALL SCRIPTURE and not just what is in the books of the NT, THEN YOU MAY BE SAVED.
---francis on 10/12/10


Lee let me help you,

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the SALVATION of [your] souls.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which SALVATION the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 when it testified beforehand the SUFFERINGS of Christ, and the glory that should FOLLOW.

1 Peter 1:12 which things the angels desire to look into.

WHAT THE ANGELS DESIRE TO INVESTIGATE IS THE SALVATION ISSUES

P.S. WIlliam Miller who predicted the second coming was a BAPTIST not an advantist.
The millerites built on his sanctuary study, and are the first since the dark ages to acknowledge a HEAVENLY SANCTUARY, later they became SDA
---francis on 10/11/10


//ALL will be judged, and this judging comes from books.

And all who have believed in Jesus will by his grace be saved and will have their names written in the Book of Life.

Think of it Francis, even those who eat pork and do not observe the Jewish Sabbath.

Eph. 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God,not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
---leej on 10/12/10


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francis - 1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into.

The above verse in CONTEXT (something you have been trained to ignore) simply speaks of the first coming of Christ as the Spirit gave witness to the prophets.

You are becoming more ridiculous trying to prove Adventists beliefs, which is a good reason many pastors, theologians and others have left the SDA.

Sorry but we Christians have more respect for the truth.
---leej on 10/11/10


While there will be a judgment on ones works -

1 Cor. 3:13f Every mans work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is. If any mans work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any mans work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Adventists in their salvation by works, make a liar out of Jesus for He said that whosoever believes in Him will have eternal life.
---leej on 10/11/10


francis //You cannot use one math method to calculate the 70 weeks and another for the 2300 days when they are in the same prophecy.

The point is many a fool over the centuries have used mathematical techniques to predict the second coming of Christ. And it has been historical established that William Miller and his followers made fools out of many in trying to calculate the 2d coming of Christ.

And Adventists like Jehovah's Witnesses in refusing to admit their folly came up with foolish stories such as something happened in the heavenly realm or simply that Christ came invisibilty.

Let's face it, Adventists are on much the same shelf. Stick with the scripture that says no one knows the day or hour.
---leej on 10/11/10


ALL will be judged, and this judging comes from books.

Now you may not like the name of this type of judgment, but it is investgative in nature. Because the books are opened and first the Holy angels get to review / investigate the decision ( NOT SECOND GUESS NOR TO SEE IF GOD IS JUST) before anyone gets into heaven

1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into(INVESTIGATE).

the purpose of this judgment is not, and cannot be for the benefit of God. It is for US and the Angels
---francis on 10/11/10


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Francis, all people will be judge, believers in the "Judgment Seat of Christ," 1 Cor. 2:13- 15, and 2 Cor. 5:9-10. Books will be open, and believers will be rewarded for the good things they did by faith, all bad things will be burned, because they have been forgiven.

And, all unbelievers go to the "Great White Throne of Judgment" Rev. 20:11-12. Unbelievers will go there to receive their punishment. They have not been forgiven. Books will be open and all their sinful acts will be shown. The good they did were also sin since it was without faith in Christ. They will receive their just reward.
---MarkV. on 10/11/10


---mima on 10/11/10
amen mima but HOW will they be judged is it truely out of THE BOOKS?

LEEJ, my point is this: the same math that is used to calcaulte the 70 weeks, must be the exact same math that must be used to calculate the 2300 days.

You see that is how we get rid of false doctrines. You cannot use one math method to calculate the 70 weeks and another for the 2300 days when they are in the same prophecy.

You must use the same standard.
---francis on 10/11/10


francis //do the math for 70 weeks starting at the giving of the commandments EXRA 7 and do the math for 2300 days staringalso at EXRA 7.

Thousands of individuals over the centuries have tried to develop some kind of mathematical formula that would predict the second coming of Christ.

Indeed, the Jehovah's Witnesses in their calculations claimed Christ would come in 1914 and when He did not, they simply proclaimed that He came invisibily. Much the same as Adventists when Jesus did not show up invented a belief that He did something in the heavenly realm - something unseen and unverifiable.

So why should one consider your belief any different than others that have made foolish predictions?
---leej on 10/11/10


All will be judged. The saved will be judged concerning their rewards(Crowns, of which there are five). The lost will be judged concerning their works. And since no one can be saved by works the lost will be condemned to hell. Those who are not saved but I've done some good works apparently will receive less punishment and those who have not done it works.
---mima on 10/11/10


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WHO will be Judged?
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ,

WHEN are people Judged?.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

HOW does that judgment take place?

Daniel 7:10 The judgment was set, and the BOOKS were opened.

Because this Judgment is done by looking ( INVESTIGATING) the records which are written n BOOKS, it is called the INVESTIFATIVE JUDGMENT.

CAN ANYONE REFUTE THE FACT THAT THIS JUDGMENT IS DONE BY SEEING/ REVIEWING / INVESTIGATING WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOKS?

WHEN does this Judgment begin?
---francis on 10/11/10


Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

do the math for 70 weeks starting at the giving of the commandments EXRA 7 and do the math for 2300 days staringalso at EXRA 7.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Revelation 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come:
---francis on 10/11/10


//That "investigative Judgment" has been a long-standing misrepresentation of Judgment Day since forever.

And many Adventist pastors left for other denominations upon realizing this false doctrine could not be adequately supported by Scripture.

I suspect it was invented as a means of denouncing the opponents of early Adventism who were scorned because of their erroneous interpretation Christ would return on 22 October 1944.

If judgment of believers begin in 1844 - 166 years ago, then God must be a very slow in judgement. Maybe their god would want to borrow one of our computers.

Jerry actually posted something to the effect that God is taking His time since He does not want to do a sloppy job. Laugh!!!!!
---leej on 10/10/10


leej, Right! That "investigative Judgment" has been a long-standing misrepresentation of Judgment Day since forever. Some people believe that, at Judgment Day, GOD is going to, THEN, decide if one goes to Heaven or Hell, depending on which of their works outweigh the other the most, the good works, or the bad. But, the Scriptures make it plain, that AT DEATH, our Judgment is set. Whatever our standing with GOD is at Death will determine our Eternal Destiny. And, it's POSSIBLE to have a Death-bed Conversion, but, to depend on that, 'cause for now we want to live life "our own way", and then, before we die, "get saved", is playing presumptiously with GOD's Grace and Mercy. That don't go down well with GOD at all.
---Gordon on 10/10/10


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gina7 //The hour of God's judgment has come in these last days since 1844. The judgment goes over books, the records of lives after they have occurred. ...

A very strange doctrine indeed as it is clearly NOT NOT NOT in that faith once and for all delivered to the saints.

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

It is a crock of manure that Adventists were given special revelation not found in the early church.
---leej on 10/9/10


Unless one has already been judged (John 5:14) after death comes the judgment
---leej 10/9/10

"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit...the judgment was set and the books were opened" Dan 7:9,10

"And I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven...Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come" Rev 14:6,7

The hour of God's judgment has come in these last days since 1844. The judgment goes over books, the records of lives after they have occurred. If people went directly to heaven or hell at death since the time of Christ, this indicates a judgment before the end of time which contradicts Rev 14.
---Gina7 on 10/9/10


Gordon -//Today, when a true follower of GOD dies, they go immediately to Heaven, where is the Throne of GOD.

That has been the teachings of the church since its conception as well as the belief in Judaism.

The Apostle Paul stated that "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ, which is far better:..." Php. 1:23

God is the god of the living, not the sleepy heads as some would have us believe.

Unless one has already been judged (John 5:14) after death comes the judgment.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: - not what some would call the 'Investigative Judgment', a false belief.
---leej on 10/9/10


Francis, Where are "who"? You mean the Saints? The Saints who have died, before the descension of the New Jerusalem, are in the New Jerusalem, now, in (the Third) Heaven. Today, when a true follower of GOD dies, they go immediately to Heaven, where is the Throne of GOD.
---Gordon on 10/9/10


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francis - leej Are you a female?

You may call me sir if you wish.

That is the problem sometimes with names as they can be either male or female.

I suppose in trying to defend women pastors, some came to believe I was a woman. While I prefer men pastors foremost, I really see nothing in scripture that explicitly forbids women in different church roles.

Ours is a modern society and some things in the Bible reflect the customs of that day (for instance women wearing coverings on their heads or told to be silent in the churches).
---leej on 10/8/10


francis, again .. in context...
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Carcasses in the new heaven and the new earth?
francis, please read the section before pulling verses out and misapplying them to fit your doctrine.
Notice is Isa 66:22 where it says 'as'?
as in similar to?
not speaking directly about the new heaven and new earth but some thing they and the seed have in common... namely they will remain..
in context, francis, in context...
---micha9344 on 10/8/10


leej Are you a female?
There will be a sun and moon in the earth made new:
Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the MOON shall be as the light of the SUN, and the light of the SUN shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

There will also be sabbath:
Isaiah 66:22 For as the NEW HEAVEN and the NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one NEW MOON to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---FRANCIS on 10/8/10


francis - if there is no sun, moon, etc. in the New earth to come, then there will be no days.

And if no days, how would the Jewish sabbath be observed?

The Sabbath as you know was a SIGN of that covenant made only with Israel, so why would there be any reference to previous events on the Old earth?

What you really have is an idol that you carry into the world to come.
---leej on 10/8/10


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There will be sun and moon in the new earth, but they will not be needed in the New jerusalem,
Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

and there will be sabbath, no matter what anyone says.
---francis on 10/8/10


With no day or night how will the Jewish sabbath be observed? Will Ellen White ring a bell on Friday nights?

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Can we truly believe that much of Ellen White's foolish teachings were in part due to her head injury she suffered as a child?

Some medical researchers at Loma Linda University has published papers to that effect.

As to her followers, birds of a feather flock together!
---leej on 10/8/10


Notice in verse 9 where they compass the saints and the city about here on Earth.
Also funny that the New Jerusalem doesn't come down until after the new heaven and new earth which is after the saints get encompassed. (Rev 21:1-3)
---micha9344 on 10/7/10

LEE OFCOURSE REARIRMS MICHA9344
//Also funny that the New Jerusalem doesn't come down until after the new heaven and new earth which is after the saints get encompassed. (Rev 21:1-3)
---leej on 10/8/10

FUNNY THIS IS:
none of them realize that the saints come DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO EARTH IN THE NEW JERUSALEM.

The very thing they disagree with me on, they also afirm.

The saints will live in heaven for some time, then down to earth for eternity
---francis on 10/8/10


micha9344 look at this post.

The Scriptures say, in REVELATIONS 21, that GOD will create a New Heaven and a New Earth and then the "New Jerusalem", the Holy City of the Lord YAHUSHUA and His Saints, will descend onto that New Earth. The New Jerusalem is the "many Mansions" of JOHN 14:1-3. They are now located up in the Third Heaven, where the Throne of GOD is.
---Gordon on 10/8/10

before they come down with the New Jerusalem where are they?
---francis on 10/8/10


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With no day or night how will the Jewish sabbath be observed? Will Ellen White ring a bell on Friday nights?
+leej on 10/7/10

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there, and they need no candle, neither light of the sun, for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
---francis on 10/8/10


micha9344 //Also funny that the New Jerusalem doesn't come down until after the new heaven and new earth which is after the saints get encompassed. (Rev 21:1-3)
Stay in context francis.

This is one of the major problem cultist have in that they all too often quote scripture out of context to prove their point.

Being out of the context is the writings of their founders.

But is there hope for them?
---leej on 10/8/10


The Scriptures say, in REVELATIONS 21, that GOD will create a New Heaven and a New Earth and then the "New Jerusalem", the Holy City of the Lord YAHUSHUA and His Saints, will descend onto that New Earth. The New Jerusalem is the "many Mansions" of JOHN 14:1-3. They are now located up in the Third Heaven, where the Throne of GOD is.
---Gordon on 10/8/10


That is what context is francis.
It is not pulling verses out without regard to the main idea surrounding it.
In regard to you stating that Christ will reign with the saints 1000 years in heaven and posting Rev 20 verses to support it, I posted Rev 20 verses within that same timeframe through the same idea path to show your conclusion is false beacause you took those verses out of context.
Notice in verse 9 where they compass the saints and the city about here on Earth.
Funny them to be in Heaven reigning if they are compassed about on Earth isn't it?
Also funny that the New Jerusalem doesn't come down until after the new heaven and new earth which is after the saints get encompassed. (Rev 21:1-3)
Stay in context francis.
---micha9344 on 10/7/10


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Re 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Re 22:5 And there shall be no night there, and they need no candle, neither light of the sun, for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

With no day or night how will the Jewish sabbath be observed? Will Ellen White ring a bell on Friday nights?
---leej on 10/7/10


Psalms 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

In the end, the peopleof God wil inherit the earth

But surely there is a period of time which will be spent in heaven ( 1000 years)

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
---francis on 10/7/10


---micha9344 look at what i quoted, and what your responce was:

My text clearly shows the holy city coming down from heaven, and clearly show that the tabanacle f God is with men (on earth)

Your text has no relation whatsoever with whete God or humans will dwell, your text speak about the destruction of the wicked.

Now read the blog question, then read your post then read mine, who is really out of context here?
---francis on 10/7/10


Amen Peter

Holy Scripture states Gods Kingdom is on earth

nowhere else

the idea the sons of God reign in heaven is simply a philosophical fairy tale by non-christians during early century who diliberately distorted Holy Scripture spinning the lie about an abode in heaven

Holy Scriptures do not mention because TODAY is not the only day for salvation as taught in mainstream christianity

True Christians understand Gods PLAN for salvation is much greater than any humanly devised idea
---Rhonda on 10/6/10


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Read in context francis and you will be shown the thousand year reign is not in Heaven.
Rev 20:8-9 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
---micha9344 on 10/5/10


God's people will live with him in heaven for 1000 years:
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Then down on earth for eternity:
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
---francis on 10/5/10


Will followers of Christ live in Heaven or will we live forever on the new Earth?


heaven for 1000 years, then earth for the rest of life
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Good people that do not accept Christ while they are alive are they saved by grace because the bible does mention every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord?

No those who have had an opportunity to accept christ and refuse will not be saved, no matter how good they are.
---francis on 10/5/10


Heaven or earth it matters not. What matters is:

John 14:3, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also."
---Bruce5656 on 10/5/10


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1st_cliff

Romans 8:20-21 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

While everything God created was good, it was not perfect. A new earth would be a much better place to dwell and since our present earth is influenced by other planetary bodies, it would be necessary to create both a new earth and new heavens.
---leej on 10/4/10


Lots of comments on the "New Earth" but no one says anything about the "New Heavens"
What's wrong with the present "heavens" that needs replacing??
---1st_cliff on 10/4/10


"Good people that do not accept Christ while they are alive are they saved by grace because the bible does mention every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord?"

The gist of this question is, will lost be saved because the Bible says every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord. The answer is no they will not be saved by doing this!! When will they do this? They will be forced to do this at the great white throne judgment, forced to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord but that acknowledgment at that time will not save them.
---mima on 10/4/10


Good people that do not accept Christ while they are alive are they saved by grace because the bible does mention every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord?

If God so elects to save someone that does not believe in Christ, that is His sovereign right.

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

I have my doubts that these books were just blank pages.
---leej on 10/3/10


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Will followers of Christ live in Heaven or will we live forever on the new Earth?

The god that created the universe would have no problem in creating a new earth. The old earth would be far too contaminated not to make a new one.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

New does not always mean re-constituted as the Jehovah's Witnesses would have us believe. But their god is a very small and powerless god.

---leej on 10/3/10


"because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Romans 8:21) So, this earth is part of "creation" that will be changed into the "glorious liberty" that we are in. We will be in resurrectional glory. The earth, like our resurrected bodies, will be in Heavenly glory. So, the new earth will be of Heaven's quality. And Revelation 21:21-22 shows that Heaven's Lamb will be the light of the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2) that will be on earth. So, Heaven's own will be one with the new earth. They will not be separate.

There could be willingly obedient knees and ones forced to bow before they go elsewhere.
---Bill on 10/2/10


RC, "The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
For we desire a better [country], that is, a heavenly [country]. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called [our] God, [and] He has prepared a city for [us]".
The New Jerusalem which will "descend out of Heaven from God".
For here [in this age] we [have] no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
And the LORD has chosen Zion, He has desired it for His dwelling place:
Refs.Psa 115:16>2Pe 3:13.Hbr 11:16> Rev 21:10>Hbr 12:22>Psa 132:13
As concerning the saved, only He knows for sure.
---joseph on 10/3/10


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