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Social Drinking Christians OK

Is it biblical for Christians to get involve in social drinking?

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 ---shara on 10/12/10
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\\And in John 2 It doesn't say how much wine Christ made.\\

Yes, it does.

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons. (From the NIV)

Do the math.
---Cluny on 11/22/10


CLUNY - Please when your writing, put chapter and verse down , I think those verses you meant have other meaning then you think, And in John 2 It doesn't say how much wine Christ made.

Now as far as Christ drinking wine it seems he did - Now if some one has a glass of wine are they sinning? Being around drinkings most of my life,From time to time the person that drink just a little,has few more than they should. and get a buzz on.And that goes against TITUS 2:12

PROVERBS 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that ready to perish. ----- ( Perish has to do with the unsave - allways found it a scary verse.)
---RICHARD on 11/21/10


Whether you're drunk in the spirit or drunk in the flesh, it's not good to drive in that state.
---StrongAxe on 11/21/10

Oh, Really?

I agree with you 100%. It is NOT good to endanger either yourself, or other drivers, when you're not fully able to concentrate on the driving task.

My Spirit-Filled Christian friends told me that I goofed by leaving that meeting early. GOD was getting me "drunk" so that I would be fully yielded to HIM.

Sounds to me like they were saying that GOD was getting ready to "attack" or "assault" me. Hmmm. I found my friends' talk too stupid to even listen to. I haven't been to any more such "drunk in the spirit" meets.
---Sag on 11/21/10


Sag:

Whether you're drunk in the spirit or drunk in the flesh, it's not good to drive in that state.

If you crash into something or someone, it will probably hurt as much and do as much damage, regardless of WHY you were uncoordinated.

You don't want to end up like Eutychus:
Acts 20:9
"And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead."
---StrongAxe on 11/21/10


\\And it does seem to say not to drink,
---RICHARD on 11/14/10\\

The Psalter also refers to "wine that gladdens our hearts."

The Lord Jesus made several hundred gallons of WINE for a wedding.

St. Paul told St. Timothy not to be a tee-totaller, but to drink wine.

So you're wrong.
---Cluny on 11/18/10




I've been stopped -- several times -- by police officers for driving erratically. The first question they asked me was:

Have You Been Drinking?

Well, I told them "NO", but I probably did have "just a little" during the Church communion.

Anyway, my erratic driving was probably due more to my being "exhausted" and staying at the Church too late. The powerful, spirit-filled preacher/teacher keep on talking past midnight for some Wednesday evening masses/services.

Getting "Drunk In The Spirit" is OK. Right?
---Sag on 11/18/10


CLUNY - I think it has nothing to do with acting superior, it's, what does the Bible say on this subject. And it does seem to say not to drink,
---RICHARD on 11/14/10


A sober mind is not only superior to a drunken mind, but the drunken mind is demented and no drunkeness enters into the kingdom of God.
---Eloy on 11/8/10


I wonder if people who abstain from alcoholic drinks--or whatever--feel spiritually and morally superior to those who do not?
---Cluny on 11/7/10


RHONDA

Alot of REVELATON has to do with future prophecy, John is talking to the church of his day 1:7 - REVELATION 1:6 --- and is saying --- AND HATH MADE US KING - IF it was to be in the future the wording would be like --- Will make us Kings.
---RICHARD on 11/7/10




It is funny in a way how we "regionlize Christianity american Christians do not drink and women wear make up . Greek christians do drink and only ladies of the evening wear make up.

yes is is biblical to drink.
---willow on 11/7/10


Richard

Amen a FUTURE prophecy of the reign of Kings and Priests when Christ RETURNS to earth ruling from Jerusalem

seeing flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of God

and the Kingdom of God is not here YET

it is EASILY understood
---Rhonda on 11/6/10


'drinking' in small amounts (we must assume that) is endosed in the Bible. BUT - we must be careful, because all snares of the Devil are also endorsed

It isup to US to know if this endorsement in the Bible is to be USED by us, or should we know that it is OK for other, but not for us?
---peter3594 on 11/5/10


"Social drinking" is how many alcoholics get their start so you better know yourself pretty well before you even entertain the idea.
That said, if a christian is a mature person and can trust himself or herself to partake in only a glass or two on special occassions...then by all means, enjoy. Anything more than that I'd say is dangerous (and expensive) and requires some serious self analysis at minimum.
---AG on 10/29/10


RHONDA Good question when did GOD consider us KINGS?

I went to REVELATION 1:5 AND from JESUS CHRIST,who is the faithful witness,and the first begotten of the dead and the prince of the king of the earth. UNTO him that LOVED us .and washed us from our sins in his blood.
(I would believe a person in GODS eyes is a king at the time there Born again - or consider a king before that

1:6 AND hath made us kings and priest unto GOD and Father,---------

IF you have a verse that says IT's later POST IT .But I can't find it - Rev 1,7 Tells about coming judgement and people are already call kings.
---RICHARD on 10/25/10


(TRUE BELIEVERS ARE CALLLED KINGS)

TITUS 2:12 Teaching us that, denying unGODLiness and worldly lust,we should live SOBERLY, righteously and GODLY in this present world,
*****

Kings for Gods Kingdom to come ...lest one foolishly believes their HOPE of salvation, their inheritance (FUTURE) makes them a "king" now as a mortal human in this gods world before they are resurrected and changed to eternal spirit

having a few glasses of wine does not make when drunk

Christ the King of all Kings drank wine
---Rhonda on 10/25/10


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PROVERBS 31,4 IT is NOT FOR KINGS, O Lemuel,it IS NOT FOR KINGS TO DRINK WINE,Nor for princes strong drink.
REVELATION 5:10 AND has made us unto GOD KINGS and priest,and we shall reign on the earth.
(TRUE BELIEVERS ARE CALLLED KINGS)

TITUS 2:12 Teaching us that, denying unGODLiness and worldly lust,we should live SOBERLY, righteously and GODLY in this present world,

---RICHARD on 10/24/10


If social drinking is really and excuse to participate in drunkenness then no - there is a difference between having a few glasses of wine during an evening and having a few glasses of wine during an hour

Even Christ drank wine

All things can become wrong when overused as Augie posted on 10/16/10 ...Scripture says all things in moderation
---Rhonda on 10/23/10


Getting drunk will hurt your testimony. But not drinking at all... is no testimony at all. If you choose not to drink, in this culture, you are wise. But I've never known anyone to remark, "That guy is a Christian! See, he doesn't drink. It makes me want to be a Christian, too!"

In many countries, a glass of wine with meals is as normal as iced tea or coffee with a meal in the USA.
---Donna66 on 10/19/10


You can politely decline an invitation where alcohol seems to be the main attraction. But if you find yourself in a situation where there is drinking... a wedding... a business luncheon, a reception for someone you know or should get to know... ask if they have any non-alcoholic drinks. They should have soft drinks or non-alcoholic punch available.If not, they should be embarrassed! No need for "little white lies".
Just say "I don't drink, thank you".
there are many people who decline alcohol for various reasons.

In the case of unhealthy food eat a little of the least objectionable food. If questioned, say "I have to watch what I eat." Then if the fellowship is good, you can enjoy it!
---Donna66 on 10/18/10


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Why didn't you decline to eat the meal as rudely as you said you'd decline an alcoholic drink, though Jesus Himself never said "Thou shalt not drink" by word or example?
---Cluny on 10/18/10

The Catholic church taught me what's in Luke 14:20. You should try not to upset someone who invites you to a meal.

Giving other people the "cold shoulder" is like slapping GOD around. Our blessings will be affected by how we treat others.

And so, I went to the meal. If for nothing else than to have a good, short, time of fellowship.

I liked the fact that there was NO alcohol at the table. I try to look at the "positives" here.
---Sag on 10/18/10


\\I told everyone that I had to "leave early" for something else: A healthy meal at home.

I think that I had a "good enough" reason for my little white lie.
---Sag on 10/18/10\\

Why didn't you decline to eat the meal as rudely as you said you'd decline an alcoholic drink, though Jesus Himself never said "Thou shalt not drink" by word or example?
---Cluny on 10/18/10


Would you likewise rudely decline a cholesterol laden dish at a church dinner?

After all, poor diet and gluttony (a vice approved among Evangelical Christians) ruin many lives, too.

It's just that gluttony doesn't have the same taboo attached to it as tobacco and alcohol in many American churches.

---Cluny on 10/17/10

Your questions/responses are funny!

I've actually been invited to church dinners where the food looked more "junk laden" than food from a fast food joint.

I told everyone that I had to "leave early" for something else: A healthy meal at home.

I think that I had a "good enough" reason for my little white lie.
---Sag on 10/18/10


\\You could invite me to one of these "parties" and I would rudely DECLINE. I've seen how that "junk" destroys people's lives.
---Sag on 10/17/10\\

Is it necessary to be rude?

Would you likewise rudely decline a cholesterol laden dish at a church dinner?

After all, poor diet and gluttony (a vice approved among Evangelical Christians) ruin many lives, too.

It's just that gluttony doesn't have the same taboo attached to it as tobacco and alcohol in many American churches.
---Cluny on 10/17/10


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I don't know the full details of this story, but my gut tells me that he probably would have murdered her had he been sober.
---Cluny on 10/17/10

I don't know all the details either. Only that my Buddy MUST serve out his jail sentence for what happened.

I know many other folks -- too many to list in 125 words -- friends, relatives, neighbors, etc. whose lives were just "ruined" by Alcohol and Drugs.

You could invite me to one of these "parties" and I would rudely DECLINE. I've seen how that "junk" destroys people's lives.
---Sag on 10/17/10


\\My High School Buddy is in jail -- for life -- because of murdering his girlfriend. They had both been drinking.\\

I don't know the full details of this story, but my gut tells me that he probably would have murdered her had he been sober.
---Cluny on 10/17/10


Cluny: I most certainly do! The lost look for every chance to show that the believers act no different than they do. If they see no difference then they have no reason to think they need to change. Paul said we are in this world but not of this world, come apart and be separate.
Moderate drinking is not a sin, and I do not condemn those that drink. I had two brothers that were alcoholics, their condemnation if any was in the hands of God, the Christian witness was in my hands. I learned along time ago that you only have to say no to one alcoholic drink, the next one.
---Harold on 10/17/10


1 Samuel 1:14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee.

in other words STOP DRINKING ALCOHOL
---FRANCIS on 10/17/10


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I've always wondered about folks who claim that "alcohol" is the reason behind their problems: Drunk driving, Relationship difficulties, Employment issues, etc.

My High School Buddy is in jail -- for life -- because of murdering his girlfriend. They had both been drinking.

Then there are medical reports claiming that "alcohol" helps keep you healthy. Should I take up drinking now?

I'd like to know what others think. Is "alcohol" use/abuse --

(1) Sin
(2) Illness / Disease
(3) Harmless Vice / Habit
(4) Heart Healthy
---Sag on 10/17/10


\\when you serve the Lord you do it in word and in deed, not your flesh and why would you drink anyways?
---Lea on 10/15/10\\

And as the great Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon remarked from the pulpit, "I have a hard enough time with ust 10 commandments without people making up more, so when I get home, I'm going to smoke a cigar to the glory of God."

The taboo against alcohol found amongst some American Christians is merely a cultural one, not found elsewhere in the world, even among European evangelicals.
---Cluny on 10/16/10


Weighing the pros and the cons of drinking alcohol, I find that it is more godly to abstain than to imbibe.
---Eloy on 10/16/10


Your logic could, and SHOULD, be applied to everything that people put into their lives and bodies:

Food
Beverages
Audio / Video
Printed Materials
Lifestyle Choices
Healthy Living Choices
Money Management
Church / Living For WHO?
etc. etc.

I find it "funny" that some things can be just as harmful, or even MORE harmful, than Alcohol. Yet, many folks either don't know, or don't care, about some things.

Eventually, all these things "catch up" with you.
---Augie on 10/16/10


Weighing the pros and the cons of drinking alcohol, I find that it is more godly to abstain than to imbibe. For evident are the ills caused from the drinking of alcohol: Noah found naked and passed out, impaired judgment, influenced thinking, loose words and uninhibited behaviors, car and job accidents causing injuries and deaths, arrests and incarcerations, damaged relationships and marriages, liver cancer and internal bleedings, alcoholism, condemnation and loss of salvation.
---Eloy on 10/16/10


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it's not what gose in the mouth that pollutes, but what comes out. Paul even told timithy to have a little wine for his stomach.
---mike8383 on 10/16/10


when you serve the Lord you do it in word and in deed, not your flesh and why would you drink anyways?
---Lea on 10/15/10


I've never had a drink. Well, I ONCE drank from the Holy Communion cup of wine at Catholic mass.

My mom complained to the Priest about several people sipping from the same cup. He replied that the ALCOHOL should effectively "kill" any germs in the wine. Remember, Christ's blood is "pure" and "germ free". Hmmm.

Our family had a cat named Buddy. Shortname: Bud. A "family joke" was:

"For All You Do, This Bud's For You!"

BUDweiser made our family a lot smarter with all of her silly cat tricks!


---Sag on 10/15/10


Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Wise council?
---francis on 10/12/10

Reading through all the replys i was so dismayed at the answers i read not Godly reply's but more like the World....how well do you know God and do you ever read his Holy Bible? when you serve the Lord you do it in word and in deed, not your flesh and why would you drink anyways? me when i drank, i drank to get drunk, but as of 20 yrs ago i have had none alcoholic beverages i got the Holy Ghost.......do you?
---Lea on 10/15/10


Goodness me people!!!!!


leave poor Harold alone, my, my, my... can't someone be allowed to get a lil praise now an again wont your heavenly father who is in heaven do just the same, hello don't be jealous.

Perhaps stirring up your pure minds will bring about better quality testimonies.

Although being Spiritually Jelous is no crime lovelies!
---Carla on 10/15/10


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\\The lost people of this world will see my witness long before they will listen to my testimony.\\

And do you actually think lost people (as you see them) will even notice, much less care, if you drink or not?
---Cluny on 10/15/10


We are commanded to avoid even the appearance of evil.
\\Harold on 10/15/10\\

Harold,
The way you worded this statement makes it sound as though we are to avoid things that could be mistaken for evil, even if they are not actually evil. Is this what you meant or am I reading into what you've said?

I was raised with this faulty understanding of this verse. The word "appearance" is translated from the Greek word that means "form". It is the same word used for when the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus at His baptism, in the bodily "form" or "appearance" of a dove. Was this something that was not an actual appearance, but was mistakenly thought to be?
---James_L on 10/15/10


The lost people of this world will see my witness long before they will listen to my testimony. We are commanded to avoid even the appearance of evil. If the lost can point at me and say that I live like they do in any worldly way my testimony and witness is lost and God may not use me in that persons life.
---Harold on 10/15/10

Gee, once when I drank just one beer with a pizza my co-workers commented on how good my witness was. None of us got drunk and they told me that it was nice to see I was a normal person not caught up in legalism. It helped my witness. C.S. Lewis had the same idea.
---Obewan on 10/15/10


\\The lost people of this world will see my witness long before they will listen to my testimony. We are commanded to avoid even the appearance of evil. If the lost can point at me and say that I live like they do in any worldly way my testimony and witness is lost and God may not use me in that persons life.
---Harold on 10/15/10\\

But drinking alcoholic drinks is not per se sinful, much less an "appearance of evil," unless one makes an a priori assumption that it IS evil and worldly.

I saw a movie where a very conservative nun thought that using ball-point pens and singing "Frosty the Snowman" was worldly. Did her taboos make them so?
---Cluny on 10/15/10


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The lost people of this world will see my witness long before they will listen to my testimony. We are commanded to avoid even the appearance of evil. If the lost can point at me and say that I live like they do in any worldly way my testimony and witness is lost and God may not use me in that persons life.
---Harold on 10/15/10


Mima ... Are words always the best witness? Remember the Good Samaritan story?

The preist and the Levite, those whose words of religion and wisdom walked by on the other side.

Which witness is greaater .. that of the silver tongued preacher who walks by, or that of the tongue tied ordinary guy who does not really understsnd all the theology behind his Faith, who stops to help a stranger?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/15/10


\\I truly believe you are one of the few who walk the narrow road to glory, \\

Carla, how do you bear being able to determine who is and who is NOT "walking the narrow way to glory"?

This must be a terrible burden to walk down the street and immediately know who is saved and who isn't.
---Cluny on 10/15/10


If your "witness" is a lifestyle witness then drinking will certainly hurt your witness. If your witness on the other hand is a verbal(spoken) witness it will be 99 times more effective than your lifestyle.

A word here about witnessing. Is a witness in a trial judged for how they dress, how they appear, friends they keep, actions they take? No no no they are judged by their words and such is the case when witnessing for Christ. We are to use our God given ability to speak to witness to others as to how they themselves can be saved.
---mima on 10/15/10


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Well Harold,

I truly believe you are one of the few who walk the narrow road to glory, and that's saying something cos I just don't get the privilege to acknowledge many of Gods true serving servants and your witnesses has been far one of the best.

My God bless and Keep you, you are truly a blessing!

CarlaX
---Carla on 10/15/10


A couple of months ago, I was graced to celebrate my 60th birthday with my priest, his wife, and a dear friend.

We went to one of my favorite restaurants, and had a wonderful spiritual discussion.

I also drank a gin and tonic, my friend drank a cosmopolitan, and the presbyteress drank a beer. The priest abstained because he's diabetic.

Shortly afterwards on his wife's birthday, the church had a special surprise dinner in her honor, and we all drank her health, praying that the Lord would grant her many years.

I believe that God is glorified when Christian friends rejoice in each other's love in this manner.
---Cluny on 10/15/10


//my witness to those present would suffer not matter the reason. My witness is more important than a few hours of stomach pain.//

This is exactly where my problem comes in. Why do you feel your witness suffers if you drink a glass of wine when the Bible says wine is ok? It just says not to be drunken or drink in excess. Its easy to explain to someone why you are drinking the wine and what the Bible teaches of it... IF you know the word.

Its dogmatic denominational teachings like this that causes us to believe certain things are sins that the Bible simply does NOT teach. It causes us to feel guilty for things that we shouldnt. Now if youre drunk and actin a fool... yes that would hurt your witness.
---JackB on 10/14/10


\\Is it at all possible that he is using thick wine, ( grape or palm) to coat his stomache for ulcers?

Give a list of common stomach problemms that are treated with alcohol?
---francis on 10/14/10
\\

You'd rather believe ANYTHING than to admit that "Thou shalt not drink" is a tradition and precept of men that you cling to.
---Cluny on 10/14/10


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1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

What stomach problems can possibly be cured or treated with alcohol?

If young Timothy is having stomach problems OFTEN and drink a little alcohol OFTEN when he has these problems, how soon does he become a drunk?

Is it at all possible that he is using thick wine, ( grape or palm) to coat his stomache for ulcers?

Give a list of common stomach problemms that are treated with alcohol?
---francis on 10/14/10


Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach sake. In the qualifications for pastors and deacons he says not to be given to much wine. As in most things it is the excess use that causes a problem.
However, today we have medicine for any stomach problem wine would help and our water supply is purer than in New Testament times, we don't need the wine.
At a wedding my stomach started to act up and I had left my medicine at home. I knew that wine could settle the problem, but my witness to those present would suffer not matter the reason. My witness is more important than a few hours of stomach pain.
---Harold on 10/14/10


\\If you drink, I believe you are basically becoming a different person than God intented you to be. It cuts you off from God and other Christians.
---Casey on 10/14/10\\

Jesus didn't think so, and He drank wine.
---Cluny on 10/14/10


Consider the results of everything you do. All (many) things are lawfull, but not all things are expedient. When you participate in drinking parties, people are getting drunk, and fornicating. And when you drink it may appear to them that you condone it, also other Christians who have a weakness for alcohol abuse may see you doing that and justify thier abusive drinking. Drinking is a serious problem. If you drink, I believe you are basically becoming a different person than God intented you to be. It cuts you off from God and other Christians.
---Casey on 10/14/10


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Cluny,

You well know that I never comment unless I have a good story or two to tell..... It is well known that particular ''churches'' preach the scripture on abstinence yet behind the scenes smoke like a trooper knock back the odd few few bottles of wine, turn up drunk for Sunday service, leaving their parishioners deadly quiet and their visitors, questioning their hypocrisy.

I have both heard testimonies from parishioners of both and I have read controversies within The Church of England and The Catholic Churches. In fact there are famous jokes within the community growing up of quite a few churches with drink problems.
---Carla on 10/13/10


\\Paul said he became all things to all men to win some. Could he have actually been a social drinker? Possibly
---James_L on 10/13/10\\

One Pentecostal radio preacher said, "We might as well face the facts. People in Bible times drank wine like we drink buttermilk."

Jewish domestic Sabbath ritual requires the head of the family to recite a blessing over a cup of wine, which is shared by all. This is also done at other times, such as weddings, circumcisions, and the like.

It's called "the cup of blessing".

Hmmmmm.... where have we heard this term before?
---Cluny on 10/13/10


What about: EATING? DANCING?

Many churches serve up FOOD.

Some churches frown even more on DANCING than they do on DRINKING.

In the Bible, David "Danced before the Lord". Yet, some churches say that they don't allow ANY dancing because it is "evil". So, David was "Sinning before the Lord"? I don't think so.

Social DRINKING is OK as long as you don't get drunk. Like Noah was after the flood.

Social DANCING is OK as long as it doesn't lead to lust or criminal activity.

Social EATING is OK as long as people don't eat too much. Gluttony.

Churches have gotten too "strict" about what consitutes "evil". Often, they're wrong too.
---Augie on 10/13/10


Where do you come up with the idea that "appearance of evil" means "something that appears to be evil"?

The preacher would not drink a can of soda while driving because he might drive past someone so fast that they might mistake it for beer.
---James_L on 10/13/10

Excellent Point!

I think that alot of things are "evil" because the Pastor/Leader just said that it is "evil".

I've visited churches where "caffeinated" beverages were NOT ALLOWED. However, the church served "coffee" to anyone who wanted it. Even to kids. "Caffeine" isn't good for youngsters.

I think that we've stretched the definition of "evil" a little.
---Augie on 10/13/10


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For those who like to quote 1Thess 5:22:
"abstain from all appearance of evil"

Where do you come up with the idea that "appearance of evil" means "something that appears to be evil"?

I was raised with this very poor misunderstanding of this verse. The preacher would not drink a can of soda while driving because he might drive past someone so fast that they might mistake it for beer.

Would you think an appearance of Christ was "something that appeared to be Christ", or Christ appearing?

Paul said he became all things to all men to win some. Could he have actually been a social drinker? Possibly
---James_L on 10/13/10


\\So by shunning the appearance of sin you save your bro or sister that is weak\\

But Carla, you have not yet established that consumption of alcohol is per se sinful. You are merely assuming it is.

francis's quotes are part of his helpless attempts to reduce the Gospel of Christ to "touch not, taste not, handle not," as much as his postings about clean and unclean meat, which has NEVER been obligatory on Gentiles.
---Cluny on 10/12/10


\\You can kill yourself by drinking too much water! So let's not drink water!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/10

Back when I was a teenager, my church youth group had a Water Drinking Contest. The goal of the game was to see who could answer the MOST questions, and also drink a big cup of water after each question.\\

There was a woman who died from drinking too much water at just such a stunt run by radio station.

In effect, she drowned interiorly.
---Cluny on 10/12/10


You can kill yourself by drinking too much water! So let's not drink water!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/10

Back when I was a teenager, my church youth group had a Water Drinking Contest. The goal of the game was to see who could answer the MOST questions, and also drink a big cup of water after each question.

I didn't last past about 5 - 6 cups of water. The winner drank about twice that much. He didn't feel very well after his victory over all the rest of us. Poor guy.
---Sag on 10/12/10


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\\So in other words lets advocate drinking as a social gathering amongst Christians get in the wine and declare ''a drinking zone for those who find it socially acceptable'' GOD FORBID.\\

Please don't confuse your social taboos with Christianity, Carla.

As a matter of fact, wine is generally served at our more festive church dinners.

In Russian parishes, when a bishop visits, he expects a shot of vodka before the meal itself, where it's served as an aperitif.

In Orthodox monasteries, even on fast days, except during Holy Week, ouzo, brandy, or something similar is offered to visitors, even if the monks don't drink it themselves.
---Cluny on 10/12/10


Alcohol is a devastating menace in the hands of the wrong person. But there is a such thing as a social drinker. One beer or one glass of wine could be acceptable if a person has not had trouble in the past with alcohol. But drinking can and does get out of hand, when done in excess. I would suggest one remain a teetotaler. Alcohol has the power to destroy homes,families, jobs. Soul and body. You name it. It is a fool's choice of beverage. The devil's brew that brings hell and torment with it. Avoid it!
---Robyn on 10/12/10


So in other words lets advocate drinking as a social gathering amongst Christians get in the wine and declare ''a drinking zone for those who find it socially acceptable'' GOD FORBID. A wise man does not tell everything because it is the truth , knowing It's not everyone that can have a drink of wine and not get drunk, Christians can struggle too.


So by shunning the appearance of sin you save your bro or sister that is weak. By safety having a lil wine for the stomach sake, at your own will, without someone's conscience judging your own god given liberty.

Be sensible within your Own home, without broadcasting the wrong message to the lost or weak.

SIMPLE!
---Carla on 10/12/10


\\ Who has wounds without cause?\\

Probably someone with more than one cat.

That's my personal experience with my 2 furbabies.
---Cluny on 10/12/10


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If it is not truly social, it will find you out. I can see how a person will say it is social, but the person does not have control, so it is not Biblical. "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but

I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12)

If I am depending on booze to relax me, I consider this means I am under its power. But Jesus guarantees, "'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29) In God's love, we have His rest, without any need for "help".
---Bill on 10/12/10


Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Wise council?
---francis on 10/12/10


Proverbs 31:4 [It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes strong drink:

Proverbs 31:5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Proverbs 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
---francis on 10/12/10


Francis "Woe to those who rise early in the morning, That they may follow intoxicating drink, Who continue until night, till wine inflames them! (Isaiah 5:11).

Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who hath complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine (Proverbs 23:2930).

Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness! (Habakkuk 2:15).

Why do you insist that a moderate drink at a socialo gathering falls within those categories?
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/10


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\\Maybe there weren't any believers at this wedding and Jesus knew that, so he showed them that He is the Miracle Worker, amen?\\

This is another thing you said that won't get an "Amen" from me, Donna.

Let's not forget that it was only at this wedding that Jesus began His public ministry, so if by "believers" you mean "believers that Yeshua was Messiah," there were none at this point.

Yet there WERE pious Jews who believed the Torah as had been taught to them at that point, and these were doubtless the majority of the guests, if not all of them, so you can't say there were no "believers" there.
---Cluny on 10/12/10


RIGHT ! It's Wine & Not grape juice for the elements used for communion. ( take a little wine for thy stomach sake )

Social alcoh drinks, No.
There's No such a thing as smoking, social alcoh drinking, social club dancing, social club joining, fornicating, adultery, half - naked, sports god etc christians. 1st.John 2 v's 15 - 16.
---Lawrence on 10/12/10


Woe to those who rise early in the morning, That they may follow intoxicating drink, Who continue until night, till wine inflames them! (Isaiah 5:11).

Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who hath complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:2930).

Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness! (Habakkuk 2:15).
Does the Christian need any more condemnation of alcohol consumption than this? A very safe and simple rule for these issues is: When in doubt, leave it out!
---francis on 10/12/10


\\I wouldn't drink alcoholic drinking in social gatherings. It's just a bad representation of a TRUE BELIEVER.
---Donna5535 on 10/12/10\\

I know plenty of true Christian believers who see noting wrong with the proper use of alcoholic beverages.

It's only in America that some fundamentalists (in the proper use of the term) have added "Thou shalt not drink" to Christianity. This taboo does NOT exist among their confreres in Europe.

I could just as well argue that TRUE BELIEVERS show they are separate by not eating meat on Wednesday and Friday.
---Cluny on 10/12/10


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Donna ... "The bible tells us to 1) Avoid all appearances of evil"

A lot of people have fallen for Richard Dawkin's claims that religions, including Christianity, are evil

Does that mean that in order to "avoid the appearance of evil" we should stop going to church, or proclaiming what we believe?

I can cause offence by shouting too loud. Does that mean the voice is evil, and we should not speak?

Jesus made wine. The fact that some the world use it in a bad way does not make it, in itself, evil.

You can kill yourself by drinking too much water! So let's not drink water!
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/12/10


Cluny, I agree with you BUT...there goes that BUT again...lol.

The bible tells us to 1) Avoid all appearances of evil. If we do what the world does and drink, how does that look to non-Christians who you know are judgemental and ready to find fault with us Christians.

Secondly, the bible tells us to "Come out from amoung them and be ye separate says the Lord."

Maybe Jesus turned the water into wine because he wanted to show this miracle to non-believers. Maybe there weren't any believers at this wedding and Jesus knew that, so he showed them that He is the Miracle Worker, amen?

I wouldn't drink alcoholic drinking in social gatherings. It's just a bad representation of a TRUE BELIEVER.
---Donna5535 on 10/12/10


Here we go again.

Don't forget that the first miracle of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ was making several hundred gallons of wine (not grape juice) at a wedding party.

So what do you think?
---Cluny on 10/12/10


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