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Circumcision Of The Heart

In Romans 2:29 Paul mentions circumcision of the heart. Can someone please explain to me what circumcision of the heart is?

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 ---homer on 10/14/10
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David //Notice that God makes his abode with us after we keep his words, not before we keep his words.

In other words you are saying that our good behavior/works is a prerequisite to our salvation?

How can anyone be good enough to be accepted by God. Our sin if not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ will always remain a barrier between us and God.

If our good works are a prerequisite for fellowship with the Lord, then you effectively are your own savior.
---leej on 10/29/10


(John 14:23)
Jesus answered and said to him, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How do you determine that this passage shows good works are a prerequisite to salvation?
---Donna66 on 10/28/10

Donna
Lee and Many others believe that you are "saved", and then you will do good works.
If that was true the verse would read:
"I and my Father love you, and we will make our abode with you, and then you will keep my words."

Notice that God makes his abode with us after we keep his words, not before we keep his words.
---David on 10/29/10


(John 14:23)
Jesus answered and said to him, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How do you determine that this passage shows good works are a prerequisite to salvation?
---Donna66 on 10/28/10

Donna
Lee and Many others believe that you are "saved", and then you will do good works.
If that was true the verse would read:
"I and my Father love you, and we will make our abode with you, and then you will keep my words."

Notice that God makes his abode with us after we keep his words, not before we keep his words.
---David on 10/29/10


i John 4:19 - "We love him, because he first loved us."

In other words, unless God the Father loves you, you will never love Jesus Christ. It is then the power of God's love that converts a sinner to a saint. Contrary to many, God's love is unconditional... Romans 9:11 - "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"

...that's how much God loves His elect/people.
---christan on 10/28/10


David, John 14:23 is not a prerequesite.

" Jesus answered and said to him, "if anyone loves Me," the word is "if." "he will keep My word" that only happens when someone loves Him, and only the save love Him. "And my Father will love him" So when someone loves Christ, the Father love him. "and We will come to him and make Our home with him" The Father loves those who love Christ, will make their home with him. This is consistent with the teachings of James in 2:14-16, that true saving faith is manifested by works produced by God in the transforming, regenerating power of the Spirit. The lost don't have that love for Christ, only genuine believers do.
---Mark_V. on 10/28/10




For the finite mind of mankind, God uses the physical things of the world to explain the spiritual. Ezekiel 36:25-27 gives us this graphic procedure:

"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean, I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."

What part of man is able to perform this spiritual task of regeneration? God specifically declares that He is the one who performs this "spiritual surgery".
---christan on 10/28/10


David--
(John 14:23)
Jesus answered and said to him, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How do you determine that this passage shows good works are a prerequisite to salvation?
To me, it is a simple statement of fact about those who love Jesus.
---Donna66 on 10/28/10


David //Lee According to Jesus, obedience to God is a prerequisite if he is to live in us.

God lives within the believer at his or her spiritual birth (John 3,3-4). The believer becomes a new creation in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17) and such a new creation is found to love God.

As to works, Eph. 2:10 simply speaks of the fact that He works within us for good works. Php. 2:13 tells us He controls our will for His good pleasure.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The believer as a child of God comes under the discipline of God, much liken to our earthly parents who attempt to guide us. (see Hebrews 12:6f)
---leej on 10/28/10


Doing good is merely the result of being a Christian, it is not a prerequisite to having eternal life as eternal life is strictly a gift received by those who would believe.---leej on 10/27/10

Lee
According to Jesus, obedience to God is a prerequisite if he is to live in us.
If God is not in us, we can not love our brother.
(John 14:23)
Jesus answered and said to him, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
---David on 10/28/10


Circumcision of the heart signified purification of the heart, the removal of things considered unacceptable to God effected by the Spirit #De 10:16 30:6 Eze 44:7 Ac 7:51 Ro 2:28 Col 2:11

Whereas physical circumcision merely reflected an outward ritual act signifying allegiance to the God of Israel and was requuired only of the Hebrew people.
---leej on 10/27/10




Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Phil 3

3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

What about the flesh? Was it not put AWAY at Calvary?

Colossians 2


11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

---13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
---kathr4453 on 10/27/10


Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF: I [am] the LORD.

Matthew 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

I see nothing new spoken by jesus here.
---francis on 10/27/10


David //So you see, Paul taught exactly what Jesus taught, obedience to the commands of Christ(Doing Good) is very important if one is to gain Eternal Life.

And what are the commands of Christ? There are basically two given to us.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we (1)believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and (2)love one another, just as he has commanded us.

Doing good is merely the result of being a Christian, it is not a prerequisite to having eternal life as eternal life is strictly a gift received by those who would believe. Eph. 2:8-10

---leej on 10/27/10


//Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And yet Scripture also says -

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
---leej on 10/25/10

Paul also said,
(Romans 2:6-7)
God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

So you see, Paul taught exactly what Jesus taught, obedience to the commands of Christ(Doing Good) is very important if one is to gain Eternal Life.
---David on 10/27/10


You are always quoting John8:34 could you tell me why?
---Homer on 10/25/10

(Luke 5:31)
Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

Homer
If someone has all the symtoms of Cancer, but will not go to a doctor, can the doctor heal them of Cancer?

Jesus taught that the sinner is a Slave to sin.
Sin is the symtom of Slavery.
Slavery is the mark of those who will perish.(John 8:35)

If a sinner, will not admit that they are a Slave to sin, can Jesus set them free of that Sin.
If they do not believe what he says, can they say they believe in him?
"Jesus came for the sick, not the righteous".
---David on 10/26/10


David, I meant too many questions for everyone. Concerning the circumcision of the heart you said,
"Mark If it is the Evil in Man's heart that causes Man to sin, the removal of that Evil is called "The Circumcision of the Heart". This Evil is removed when one is Born Again. Do you agree with this?"
I'm sorry but I don't.
Deut. 10:16 Moses called the Israelites to cut away all the sin in their hearts, as the circumcision surgery cut away the skin. This would leave them with a clean relationship to God. What they could not get rid of was their sinful nature. That nature never changes. When God saves us, at rebirth we do not receive a new nature, we are made a new creation. It's the beginning of a new life.
---MarkV. on 10/26/10


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//Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

And yet Scripture also says -

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it- the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,...
---leej on 10/25/10


//Have you ever seen a believer live a life commited to adultery, murder, theft, and dishonouring his parents?

No! When one is born again in Christ (John 3:3-4), that person becomes a new creation in Christ.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away, the new has come.

Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.

That new nature born within the beleiver continues to struggle against the flesh.

Romans 7:22-23 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
---leej on 10/25/10


David: I believe essentially we agree
(Romans 5:19)
"For as by ONE man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of ONE shall many be made righteous."


Yes, Adam's sin made us sinners. Christ's obedience (in taking our sins with Him to the cross) makes us righteous.

1Jo 1:6-8 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
---Donna66 on 10/25/10


//To be circumcised in the heart, means to believe in Jesus as the messiah. This belief, means that you will also keep His commandments.

And there are basically 2 for Christians -

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we should (1)believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and (2)love one another, even as he gave us commandment.

Legalists claim we must keep selected OT laws-the keeping of any day, dietary laws, as well as physical circumcision are totally contrary to New Covenant doctrines.

Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: we gave no such commandment:
---leej on 10/25/10


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MOST people use JOHN 3,3-4 because most people know the New Testament better. But circumcision of the heart is in the Old Testament too.

DEUTERONOMY 10,16 Circumcise therfore the foreskin of your heart. and be no more stiffnecked.

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 And the LORD thy GOD will circumcise thine heart,and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD with all thine heart, and with thy soul,that thou mayest live.
---RICHARD on 10/25/10


Thankyou everybody for taking the time to answer my question. I now understand what circumcision of the heart means.
David thankyou for all those scriptures from the gospels. I really enjoy reading your posts and have learned alot of errors in what I thought was the truth.
Question? You are always quoting John8:34 could you tell me why you seem to have centered your teaching on this verse?
---Homer on 10/25/10


To be circumcised in the heart, means to believe in Jesus as the messiah. This belief, means that you will laso keep His commandments.

Those who are circumcised in the heart do keep the commandments / Laws of God.

Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Deuteronomy 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
---francis on 10/25/10


Have you ever seen a believer life a life commited to adultery, murder, theft, and dishonouring his parents?

So although we get the righteousness of christ, one who lives a life commited to sin ( ANY SIN) cannot be declared the righteousness of christ.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

a man commited to adultery ( OR ANY OTHER VIOLATION OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) cannot say that he is just before God can he?
---FRANCIS on 10/25/10


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In this human flesh, even with our best efforts, we can never be as righteous as we should be to enter Heaven.
---Donna66 on 10/24/10

Donna
I agree!
However, God is righteous, and when he lives in us, then we are made righteous.
(Romans 5:19)
"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."



---David on 10/25/10


David-- Because of JESUS we ARE made perfect in God's sight. That's because Jesus' righteousness is IMPUTED to us.(We had no righteousness of our own). Looking through the blood of Jesus, God sees us as righteous.

In this human flesh, even with our best efforts, we can never be as righteous as we should be to enter Heaven. This is why we depend on Jesus alone.
---Donna66 on 10/24/10


I answered one of them and you throw five more, without answering to what was given to you from Scripture ---MarkV. on 10/24/10

Mark
I looked at my last post to you and see only one question.
Maybe you should read it again.
---David on 10/24/10


francis//You are not declared righteous just because you "believe."

John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: ...

And when one avails himself of the power given to the believer, the believer overcomes the sin in his or her life.

But God has already given the believer a guarantee of that salvation that is ours.

2 Cor. 5:4 - 5 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdenednot that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
---leej on 10/24/10


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David, you are asking to many questions and don't answer the one's that are answered to you. I answered one of them and you throw five more, without answering to what was given to you from Scripture. You don't say whether what was given is true or not, but put another five and when someone answers one, you move on to another five. Why don't you take a deep breath and answer one of the answers given to you? Your questions have no end because you are picking verses out of context for which they were given. Be a little reasonable, give a person answering a chance. I know you are fired up and all, but it has to be a two way discussion. Yours is only one way, yours.
---MarkV. on 10/24/10


francis //One who is disobedient to God cannot be called righteous.Belief in God leads to obedience.

We are obedient to Christ when we come to believe in Him as it is then that we are born again in Him and become a new creation. 2 Cor. 5:17

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

And yes, belief in God does lead to obedience "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them". Eph. 2:10

And consider also -

Php. 2:13 .... for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
---leej on 10/24/10


francis - another thought that may help clear up your confused mind.

Scripture tells us that Christ is our righteousness. 1 Cor. 1:30

And that our own efforts to be righteous is simply the dung that the Apostle Paul spoke of -

Php. 3:3f For we are the real circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh-(human effort) though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:...as to the law, a Pharisee,... as to righteousness, under the law blameless. But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
---leej on 10/24/10


Do you believe that the righteousness of Christ is credited to those who believe?
---leej

You are not declared righteous just because you "believe."

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

One who is disobedient to God cannot be called righteous.

Belief in God leads to obedience.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

So those who do the law and believe shall be justified. Although no man is justified by keeping the law, all who are justified are those who keep the law and have faith / believe.

Galatians 3:11 no man is justified by the law
---francis on 10/24/10


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The Gospel of John is about eternal life, not Christian perfection.
---Donna66 on 10/23/10

Donna
In (John 8:34) Jesus says if you sin you are a Slave to sin.
"I tell you the truth, EVERYONE who sins is a slave to sin."

In (John 8:35) Jesus tells us that a Slave will not have Eternal Life.
"Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever."

Donna
According to Jesus, the only way that one will get into Heaven is if they are made perfect.
Perfect, meaning there is no evil living in those who are Born Again.
There can be no evil, because God lives in them.(1John 3:9)

---David on 10/24/10


David - I do not see scripture supporting the view that sanctification is an instant process, through ones heart may be changed, behavior is often slow in following.
---leej on 10/23/10

Lee,
I don't recall saying that is was.
Circumcision of the Heart is only part of the Sanctifing process.

(Romans 8:8)
"They that are in the flesh cannot please God."

Lee,
If those who are in the flesh can not please God, doesn't it make sense that God would remove that flesh, so that we could please him?

You say that Cirumcision of the Heart is a slow process.
Can you show me where God healed anyone in the Bible slowly, and not instantly?
(Matthew 13:15)
---David on 10/24/10


(Jeremiah 4:4)
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.


Mark
If it is the Evil in Man's heart that causes Man to sin, the removal of that Evil is called "The Circumcision of the Heart".
This Evil is removed when one is Born Again.

Do you agree with this?
---David on 10/23/10


David - I do not see scripture supporting the view that sanctification is an instant process, through ones heart may be changed, behavior is often slow in following.

Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.

Ga 3:22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
---leej on 10/23/10


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David:
The Gospel of John is about eternal life, not Christian perfection. "Whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life". That's the theme. Yes, the human heart untouched by God.(Matthew 15:19)
produces "evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies"But God, in circumcising the heart, did not destroy all evil influences. The Christian can still be tempted, can also give into temptation. John the Baptist (in the same Gospel) Said "He must increase, but I must decrease" This was a statement of historical fact, but observing the life of John the Baptist and the apostles,
It is a spiritual fact too....spiritual maturity.
---Donna66 on 10/23/10


That's because much of their behavior comes from the heart, God has changed.
---Donna66 on 10/22/10

Donna
If God changes the heart because of it's behavior, wouldn't that mean the Evil in the heart has been removed, since it's the evil in our hearts which causes the behavior.
(Matthew 15:19)
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:


If Evil is the source of our Sin, and that source has been removed, why do those who say they are born again, still sin?

If the evil has been removed from those who are born of God, then wouldn't (John 3:9-10) mean exactly as is written?
---David on 10/23/10


David, Jesus becomes real to me, when I'm born of the Spirit. For only then is a person able to not only see Him, but to hear Him, and perceive what He has to say, for He says, "My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me" only His sheep hear Him and follow Him and understand what He is saying to them because the Holy Spirit now lives in a persons life. Jesus said in the passage you gave, "if a man loves Me he will keep My words" only those who are born again of the Spirit love Him. He does not say "if you love Me, you have the choice to keep My word or not" He said "If a man loves Me, "he will" keep My word.
---MarkV. on 10/23/10


is one being a legalist when they tell me not to murder ,after all thats part of the ot law and the old covenant.
---mike88874 on 10/23/10


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Did he ever mention that their works were done because Christ lived in them? No.
---MarkV. on 10/22/10

Mark
Here's another example of you teaching the opposite of what Jesus taught.
(John 14:23)
Jesus answered and said unto him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my words, and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him..


Mark
According to what Jesus says in this verse, when does he come to live in you?
Is it before or is it after obedience to his commands?
---David on 10/23/10


"Circumcision of the heart" is a metaphor Paul uses to explain the work that God does in us when we are born again. Circumcision can never be a "do-it-yourself" project.

Living with a "circumcized heart" means that every action or reaction of ours needs not be measured in terms of the law. A Christian who stays close to the Lord will likely act righteously... often without even being fully aware of it. That's because much of their behavior comes from the heart God has changed, not from personal will or effort.
---Donna66 on 10/22/10


MarkV - the problem with the legalists that demands one be obedience to law (and selected OT laws at that) is they must read the scripture with a blindfold on.

They want to work for their salvation but when Jesus was asked what works one must do to have eternal life, He gave them answer.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

They clearly stumble over the simplicity of the Gospel message.
---leej on 10/22/10


Leej, they don't boast in the Lord, they boast on their own works. Francis is no different then Jerry, pushing the law on everyone. How they obey, how they keep the law, how they keep the Ten Commandments and then say they don't believe in righteousness by obedience or any sort of works, when they just finished telling you how great they do their works. If that is not boasting, I don't know what is.
Did he ever mention that their works were done because Christ lived in them? No. That because the indwelling of the Spirit was moving them and teaching them how to obey? No. Did they ever give the glory to Christ? No. It is all about how righteous they are. I do not mean every SDA, I'm talking about those who throw the law at everyone.
---MarkV. on 10/22/10


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//SDA teach righteousness by faith, we do not teach nor believe that we can attain righteous by keeping the commandments.

Do you believe that the righteousness of Christ is credited to those who believe?

That anything of us that is noteable is really the work of God's Spirit working withn the believer both to will and to do of his good pleasure?

That the one who boast should only boast in the Lord?
---leej on 10/21/10


SDA teach righteousness by faith, we do not teach nor believe that we can attain righteous by keeping the commandments.

We teach that it is never the desire of christians to sin, thus we obey
we teach that because we LOVE GOD thus we obey
we do not teach righteousness by obedience / or any sort of works.

in any event, your ageenda is very transparent and has already been exposed.
---francis on 10/21/10


Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.

It is only through the shed blood of our Lord Jesus Christ that man can approach God.

Romans 3:23-25 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God,

Not so says the Adventists as one must obey all the commandments in order to be righteous enough to merit eternal life.


---leej on 10/21/10


1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

And that can truly be said for Ellen White back in 1844 as well as her followers even today. They were either kicked out or told to leave a church that preached the gospel.

And the doctrines they now proclaim are not found within 'that faith once for all delivered to the saints' (Jude 3).

It is surprising that they cannot see that.
---leej on 10/21/10


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1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
---micha9344 on 10/21/10


Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.

Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
---francis on 10/20/10


francis -//am i severed from christ if I do these?

I have already answered the question with a NO as our righteousness is in Christ. If we follow all the moral law, etc. it would be futile without Christ in your life. In short Jesus needs to be your Savior, not your good works.

And bear in mind that salvation is a GIFT -

For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph. 2:8-10

The latter part of this verse basically says good works are the work of His Spirit within the believer.
---leej on 10/20/10


You have not answered my question.
YES OR NO
am i severed from christ if I do these?

1: not worshiping other gods,
2. Not Making Graven Images
3. Not Taking God's Name in Vain
4. Keep Holy the Lord's Day 9.
5. Honor your Father and Mother
6. Not Killing
7. Not Commiting Adultery
8. Not Stealing
9: Not Lying
10. Honoring Your Neighbor's Goods

PLEASE REVIEW YOUR POSTS BEFORE ANSWERING

Those seeking to be justified (made righteous) by the law (such things as Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, etc.) are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace. (Gal. 4:4)

---francis on 10/20/10


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am i severed from christ if I do these?

1: not worshiping other gods,
2. Not Making Graven Images
3. Not Taking God's Name in Vain
4. Keep Holy the Lord's Day 9.
5. Honor your Father and Mother
6. Not Killing
7. Not Commiting Adultery
8. Not Stealing
9: Not Lying
10. Honoring Your Neighbor's Goods

If you do all those things and the Pharisees during the earthly ministry of Christ were very careful to obey all the law, then you effectively become your own savior as you do not need Jesus as your Savior.

We all realize that this is very hard for the unregenerate believer to understand, but it all comes when one is placed in Christ and becomes a new creation.
---leej on 10/20/10


francis -\\LEEJ very very simple question, all I need is a YES or NO answer.

NO, one can in his own fleshly power wear clothing of a righteous and moral person, but the Christian's righteousness is in Christ (1 cor. 1:30).

Ro 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Ro 4:13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.

Ga 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

May the Lord in His grace give you understanding.
---leej on 10/20/10


"Circumcision of the heart" is a spiritual exercise performed only by the Holy Spirit. Theologians have a description for this and it is called "regeneration". But it was best declared of by none other than Jesus Christ in John 3:3 & 5 -

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

So, unless one is "born of the spirit", he WILL NEVER belief in God's Word, let alone enter the Kingdom of God.
---christan on 10/20/10


LEEJ very very simple question, all I need is a YES or NO answer

as you suggested, am i severed from christ if I do these?

1: not worshiping other gods,
2. Not Making Graven Images
3. Not Taking God's Name in Vain
4. Keep Holy the Lord's Day 9.
5. Honor your Father and Mother
6. Not Killing
7. Not Commiting Adultery
8. Not Stealing
9: Not Lying
10. Honoring Your Neighbor's Goods

PLEASE REVIEW YOUR POSTS BEFORE ANSWERING

Those seeking to be justified (made righteous) by the law (such things as Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, etc.) are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace. (Gal. 4:4)

---Leej on 10/16/10
---francis on 10/20/10


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***The only reference to an actual spiritual "circumcision" speaks of the removal of the sin nature at conversion as being a sort of circumcision in that circumcision is the removal of something.
Bruce5656 on 10/16/10***

Do we really lose the sinful nature at conversion. If we do why do we continue to sin?
---Homer on 10/20/10


francis //So i could be justified with God if I keep 9/10, but 10/10 and I am severed from christ?

Scripture is very very clear that you can never be justified by obedience to the law.

Ga 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law, you have fallen away from grace.

The Christian's righteousness is in Christ, a righteousness that has been imputed upon regeneration.

1 cor. 1:30 30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

Ga 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
---leej on 10/17/10


This is were God gives a Person I new Heart, Being Born again - JOHN 3,3
EZEKIEL 18,31 CAST away from you all trangression,whereby ye have transgressions,and make you A NEW HEART and a NEW SPIRIT,---- also go to EZEKIEL 36,26
2 CORINTHAINS 5,17 Therefore if any man be in CHRIST, he is a new creature.--------

For all are in the Blood line of ADAM --
JEREMIAH 17,9 The heart is deceitiful above all things, and deperately wicked,who can know it ( This is the heart of the unsave man before GOD gives a NEW HEART)

---RICHARD on 10/17/10


responce to Leej on 10/16/10
Those seeking to be justified (made righteous) by the law (such things as
1: not worshiping other gods,
2. Not Making Graven Images
3. Not Taking God's Name in Vain
4. Keep Holy the Lord's Day 9.
5. Honor your Father and Mother
6. Not Killing
7. Not Commiting Adultery
8. Not Stealing
9: Not Lying
10. Honoring Your Neighbor's Goods etc.) are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace.

So i could be justified with God if I keep 9/10, but 10/10 and I am severed from christ?
---francis on 10/17/10


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Once the reality of blessing of the promised son came to pass ( JESUS DEATH ON THE ROSS) all blood covenant stopped.

As a consequence those who believe by faith in the promise given to Abraham are not under the covenant made at Mt. Sinai bearing children for slavery but of Jerusalem above, free from all regulations and statues given under the old blood covenant (Gal. 4:25)

Those seeking to be justified (made righteous) by the law (such things as Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, etc.) are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace. (Gal. 4:4)

Instead of physical circumcision, God is tranforming the inward nature of believers. The circumcised of heart live by the Spirit not by the letter of the law.(2 Cor. 3:3,6)
---Leej on 10/16/10


Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Heb 11:8a By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed, and he went out...
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD, and he counted it to him for righteousness.
-When does the promise of a son go to Sarai, before or after Ishmael was born?
-What was the exact promise of God?
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great, and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD [came] unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir, but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
---micha9344 on 10/16/10


Abram did not believe or trust that God would give to him and Sara the son of promise. In this son all nations would be blessed. Because of his unbelief, God added the covenant of circumcision: A symbol of the removal of the heardness of the heart, and belief in God's promises.

Once the reality of blessing of the promised son came to pass ( JESUS DEATH ON THE ROSS) all blood covenant stopped.
Now we who believe in the work and blessing of the promised son, are said to be circumcised in the heart

Unlike Abram we belive.
Much like Abraham we believe.
---francis on 10/16/10


The Gospel of Jesus is the Father's 'circumcision of the heart' (as the removal of the superfluities of sin from man's reflexive responses and central focus in life), made possible only through the atoning sacrifice of His Son. As written...
"I will give you a new heart and put a new 'spirit' (attitude) within you, I will take the 'heart of stone' [a focus set unyieldingly on the external, sensual adornments of life] out of your flesh and give you a 'heart of flesh' [as one made soft, pliable and conformable to My Divine Inspiration and guidance]." Eze 36:26
"And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart.., to "love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul", that you may live." Deu 30:6
---Josef on 10/16/10


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Can any of you offer support for your answers from the gospels of Jesus?
---Homer on 10/15/10

(John 8:34-36)
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, EVERYONE who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.


Homer
Those who sin are slaves of sin and are the spiritually uncircumcised.
Those who have been freed from their slavery to sin, are those who have been spiritually circumcised, those who have had their sin "Taken Away".
(1John 3:5)
"But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins."
---David on 10/16/10


Homer,

The only reference to an actual spiritual "circumcision" speaks of the removal of the sin nature at conversion as being a sort of circumcision in that circumcision is the removal of something.

Col 2:11, "ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"

Other than this, there is no concept of "circumcision of the heart". Any other references simply are pointing out the uselessness of physical circumcision today as I noted below.

Usually in Paul's writings reference to circumcision or "the concision" (those who believe in the ongoing significance of circumcision) is derogatory.
---Bruce5656 on 10/16/10


Homer,
Part II
As I mentioned, other references show the uselessness of circumcision today.

1 Cor 7:19, "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing"

The other answers given here are really telling you the same thing.

Jesus never spoke of the "circumcision of the heart". It is simply a phrase Paul used to illustrate the foolishness of the Jews who thought they had special favor with God because of their physical (outward) circumcision while at the same time they were not in relationship with God at all in their heart.
---Bruce5656 on 10/16/10


//Did Jesus even teach about the circumcision of the spirit?
---Homer on 10/15/10//
No,Jesus did not teach spiritual circumcision during His earthly ministry.
It was revealed to and taught by the apostle Paul, staring in Rom. 2
---michael_e on 10/16/10


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What the Jews were doing and believing amounted to nothing more than legalism. CHRIST NAILED LEGALISM TO THE CROSS BY HIS SHED BLOOD....Circumcision: CUTTING OF THE FORESKIN, TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. We are saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, [Jews and Gentiles]. All that's needed is a changed nature [the new birth] Ah that's all we needed, Jesus! Eph. 2:14-18. Hallelujah. And in a twinkling of an eye. Yes, changed....Paul the Apostle. Obedient spirit, exactly what God is looking for today in His people.
---catherine on 10/16/10


one day while I was kneeding dough,for bread I saw the Spirit come in throught my window open up my chest then open up my heart and enter it. I believe my heart was circmcised by God.
---mike8383 on 10/16/10


Thank you all for your answers. Can any of you offer support for your answers from the gospels of Jesus? Did Jesus even teach about the circumcision of the spirit?
---Homer on 10/15/10


Homer,
Start reading in verse 17. The Jewish circumcision was intended to signify they were part of "God's chosen people." It was a matter of great pride for them.

Paul is telling them that the outer change (circumcision) does not mean a thing with out a changed heart.

This is similar in spirit to Psalms 51:16-17, "thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart."

The burnt offering was every bit as necessary under the law as circumcision but really God was interested in the heart of the person offering the sacrifice, not the sacrifice itself.
---Bruce5656 on 10/15/10


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Homer
Circumcision is the removal of the unwanted flesh, whether it be physical, as was in the Old Testament, or spiritual, as is in the New Testament.

Under the Old Covenant, men performed the circumcision on their children so that they would be in covenant with God.
Under the New Covenant, it is God who does the Circumcision so that we can be in covenant with him.

We can not please God in sin,(Romans 8:8) so the flesh, (the evil in our hearts which causes sin), must be removed so that we can be in covenant with God.

Those who have had this circumcision are those who are born again, those who belong to God, as clearly defined in (1John 3:9-10)KJV






---David on 10/15/10


Homer what's being described is a renewed paradigm that starts spiritually. It's seeing things the way God sees them and agreeing with it. Since Spirit is stronger than any other human element it's the part of us that God needs to join himself with in order to renew us to love his holiness.

Circumcision of the heart is not something you can just all at once pull off on your own without spiritual empowerment from God. It's indeed the work of God in the believer to reclaim that which was lost. "he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit" 1 Corinthians 6:17

It is as Jesus said "Ye must be born again" John 3:3. With a new spiritual nature the weaknesses of the flesh can be mastered and overcome.
---Peter on 10/14/10


Homer "It is a putting off of the 'body' (mental disposition) of the sins of the 'flesh' (the carnal nature man abides in from birth, one dictated to by a sensually based way of thinking that focuses on the externals, and is controlled and manipulated by the outward adornments and passions of life) by the 'circumcision' (an empowered removal of passions that produces spiritual impurity), [via] Christ:" It is a spiritual procedure, the cutting away of that sinful nature by the Word and Spirit of our Father. A nature which was [for the believer] buried with Jesus in baptism. Those [re]born of the Spirit "are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh".
---Josef on 10/15/10


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