ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

14th Amendment Constitution

The 14th Amendment to the Constitution, does not have these words, "Separation of Church and State". So what gives?

Join Our Christian Singles and Take The Patriotic Bible Quiz
 ---catherine on 10/19/10
     Helpful Blog Vote (1)

Reply to this BlogPost a New Blog



Cluny--- Well...maybe there is more pleasure in the dark when there are plenty of turns and unexpected curves. Ha!
---Donna66 on 10/29/10


\\because they desire the pleasures of sinuousness and the dark \\

The word "sinuous", which is derived from Latin, is NOT etymologically related to the word "sin," which comes from Germanic roots.
---Cluny on 10/27/10


Catherine, if you look back through history you will note the times that when governments tried to expunge God and the Bible from public society, that evil and destruction spread across the land, and multitudes of innocent people were destroyed. Carnal women and men desire to exclude Christ from their lives and the lives of others because they desire the pleasures of sinuousness and the dark which leads to destruction, rather than the pleasures of righteousness and the light which leads to glory.
---Eloy on 10/27/10


Eloy:

You can learn the rudiments of something (like a foreign language) in a year or two, but it takes much longer to understand all its subtleties. Try speaking English with a foreigner who has been here for two years, and see how easy he is to tell apart from a native speaker.

Or try getting a job at a chef at a four star restaurant after taking two years of cooking at a community college.

If you want to see how well one can translate a foreign language just using a dictionary, try using an online web translator (like Babelfish for example) and see how it mangles anything complicated.
---StrongAxe on 10/26/10


I could go mad, in a nice way, trying to figure out just why you don't need to study a language in order to translate from it.

Unless you are laboring under the terribly mistaken idea that all one needs to do to translate is to merely thumb through dictionaries and lexica.

May I ask which you use, Eloy?
---Cluny on 10/26/10




Cluny, A person does not need to study ancient and modern greek for 40 years in orrder to know greek, therefore I do not believe you, for you have exposed your falshoods on this site many times. Cluny, studying greek is not the same thing as literally translating greek, therefore it is not plausable that you would actually be studying greek for 40 years, when greek can be learned in 1 to 2 years.
---Eloy on 10/26/10


\\When I post the literal Greek or Hebrew translation of the Scriptures, sometimes this literal translation will not reflect what the common English Bible versions publish on the market, and that is for a number of reasons which I have posted before. I discovered this major inaccuracy when I began translating over 15 years ago\\

And I've been studying Greek for 40 years, Eloy.

If there is anyone who knows what Biblical Greek means, it ought to be the Greek Orthodox Church, right?

What you're calling "literal" is no more than a schoolboy's crib--a poor one at that!

As St. Paul asked nearly 2000 years ago, "Is it only to YOU the Word of God has come?"
---Cluny on 10/25/10


When I post the literal Greek or Hebrew translation of the Scriptures, sometimes this literal translation will not reflect what the common English Bible versions publish on the market, and that is for a number of reasons which I have posted before. I discovered this major inaccuracy when I began translating over 15 years ago. One of the main reasons for this, is that the early translators did not consider the context of the word when translating but only used one english word for each greek word in almost every instance it was found in the scripture, whereas tin he Greek language, like our English, one word may have several different meanings or definitions which must be rightly applied according to the word's context of use.
---Eloy on 10/25/10


Cluny, Read the scriptures, for I have cited the passage where God plainkly told Abraham to sacrifice his only son. But you continually say that this is a sin, but the Bible rebukes you and says that God is sinless and just, and neither was Abraham sinning for following God's Commandment but he was also obedient and just. There was no sin, none from holy God's commandment, and none from obedient Abraham.
---Eloy on 10/25/10


And since you've said so many questionable things, like saying that God might tell you to commit homicide, or your mistranslation of John 3:16, what are we to deduce from that?
---Cluny on 10/25/10




Cluny, citing evident fact and documented history like the published 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution can be done so infallibly by anyone that can read and copy the published words, word-by-word, and my preaching which is taken from the published Holy Scriptures can also be done so infallibly by anyone that can read and copy the published words, word-by-word: and also whoever has the gift of the Holy Ghost to preach his words, word-by-word, which he speaks to us to preach, which we neither can add to nor take away from his words. Every real born-again Christian speaks truth for the truth dwells in us and what is in the heart the mouth speaks, but every unregenerate soul can speak lie because the truth is not in them but the lie.
---Eloy on 10/25/10


No matter how much, thank You Jesus, the secularists may want to remove the influence of Christianity [a big mistake], from public life, no matter how heterogeneous or diverse we become, these people have no real constitutional grounds for demanding the banishment of Christianity, until an amendment is passed to that effect. If that should ever happen, I might just ask God to rain down His judgment upon this wicked nation. Secularism is a religion. This religion does not concede that any other religions perspective can be promoted in public, and it calls upon the government to enforce its beliefs [atheism], "Pluralism" today, although a Christian idea originally, now clams to protect the freedoms of all religions, but this is a farce.
---catherine on 10/24/10


\\With Immenant Domain some states are taking possession of churches that don't pay property taxes and building malls in their locations.\\

Can you give one example of this: what church, where, when, and the name of the mall built in the former location of the church?

\\Soon many of these rich pastors will find they either pay taxes or lose their church.\\

Are you laboring under the impression that pastors do not pay income or Social Security taxes?

This is not true. They do. And until recently, they were considered self-employed by the IRS and had withholding rates higher than employees of businesses.

Furthermore, I don't know any "rich pastors." My own is living off his savings and pension.
---Cluny on 10/24/10


Many churches have used this to their financial gain but that will soon change.
With Immenant Domain some states are taking possession of churches that don't pay property taxes and building malls in their locations.
Soon many of these rich pastors will find they either pay taxes or lose their church.
That will separate the wheat from the chaff and the shepherds from the wolves real fast.
Then there will be a lot of people without a church wondering who to trust when the wolf flees with his riches.
Also, when city, state or national law dictates doctrine it is no true separation.
Examples: poligymy, equal rights for women, etc...
A true separation is from both sides.
---Frank on 10/24/10


\\ I have little doubt that you are intelligent and very knowledgeable in spiritual matters.\\

Seeing how he mistranslates Bible languages and doesn't even know the meaning of common English words, I have GREAT doubts concerning either.

In any case, a mature adult can stand being disagreed with without claiming that those who disagree with him are going against God.
---Cluny on 10/23/10


\\There are people that come to this site and have dissed my preaching because they, like you, could not accept the truth\\

Does the infallibility you claim for your preaching extend to constitutional law and its application?

Not even Pio Nono went that far.
---Cluny on 10/23/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Bad Credit Loans


Eloy, your arrogance amazes me. Please listen carefully.

1: this question has nothing todo with spiritual matters, but a question of law.

2: What you are spouting is NOT the truth, but a false believe based on your feelings, not the facts of law placed before you.

It doesn't surprise me, when I see what you post and how you post, that people have issues with you. I have little doubt that you are intelligent and very knowledgeable in spiritual matters. In this case, however, your are wrong, wrong, wrong.
---NurseRobert on 10/23/10


The 14th amendment was enacted after slavery to insure that former slaves had the rights of citizenship. You are probaby thinking of the 1st amendment that guarantees freedom of religion and specifies that congress shall make no law establishing a "state" religion.

No amendment, 1st, 14th, or any other in the constitution speaks specifically about "separation of church and state."
These words come from a letter Jefferson wrote to a group of Baptists assuring them that the state could not dictate nor interfere with their worship.
---Donna66 on 10/22/10


NurseRoberts, There are people that come to this site and have dissed my preaching because they, like you, could not accept the truth. But some of these people have caught the light and have come to realize that I preach the truth and have come to accept this fact. So NurseRoberts, it is your free choice to dis. "Evil will slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous will be condemned." Ps.34:21.
---Eloy on 10/23/10


Eloy, you are a classic example of one who reads but does not understand. You can quote all you want, but if you don't understand what it is saying, then you are doing noone, including yourself, any good.

I have studied the amendments and, going beyond that, looking at the interpretations of the law by those whos job it is to do so.

The simple fact is, you do not understand what it is saying and are too blind to see it for yourself.
---NurseRobert on 10/22/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Bankruptcy


Some people who cannot otherwise support what they say stoop to the "argumentum ad baculum".

In its cruder form, it's something like this: "If you don't immediately believe what I say, you're going to hell!."

This, of course, gives no credence to what they say.

Perhaps such should retire from these blogs to communion with the only one they believe is their equal.
---Cluny on 10/22/10


NurseRoberts, you posted falsehood, that is not an insult by me, but an evident fact. And I cited the amendment "word-for-word" to prove this, and I even emboldened the part of the amendment to elucidate the truth, and yet you still dis. I suggest that you study the historical origination of the Bill of Rights, the U.S. Constitution, and the Amendments to the constitution before you continue to post wrong information and also dis the truth that I post.
---Eloy on 10/22/10


Eloy ... Now you are really stretching the limits.

The discussion is about the meaning of part of the secular Constitution.

And when someone disagrees with you on that secular matter, you accuse him of false witness against Christ.

Even the Pope claims infallibility only in respect of a few matters of spiritual doctrine.

I do believe you would accuse aomeone of dissing you if they disagreed with you as to which what brand of tea is best.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/21/10


Tommy: The discussion was about teachers preaching in the classroom. Huge difference.

I know Student Venture missionaries who are allowed to go into public schools, after hours, and hold clubs. My own children always went to Meet Me At The Pole prayer times every years. My daughter held Bible studies at lunch in 6th grade. Her testimony was strong, and nobody stopped her from teaching the Bible to interested classmates.
---Trish on 10/21/10


Send a Free Holiday Ecard


Eloy what is it with you? Are you so unsure of yourself that you have to stoop to insults? I ask you to back up your statements with facts, you cannot, or will not do that. Prove to me that I am wrong.

Tommy, I challenge you the same way. Back up your comments? Who was made to "study the Koran"? And students certainly can express their beliefs, the government, in the form of the school, and that includes school sponsored events, such as football games, cannot.

Thank you for your comments, Trish.
---NurseRobert on 10/21/10


NurseRoberts, dissers like you have said the same false-witness against Christ. Inspite of dissers, The Truth and Facts that I proclaim will always be Truth, and foolish people whom reject this proven and recorded truth do so to their own shame.
---Eloy on 10/21/10


All you have to do "NurseRobert" is read the newspaper or listen to the news on radio/tv, and you will see/hear of instances where the school system will refuse to allow a "Christian" student to express his/her beliefs in a public setting( as in a Valedictorian speech or praying at a football game). This happens regularly, but, then we are forced to accept "studying" the Quran or other religious materials for the sake of "Diversity."
---tommy3007 on 10/21/10


I taught public school for over 20 years, and I taught World Religions during a great deal of it. I never preached the Gospel during my job. My students always knew I was a believer, because I was permitted to answer the question, IF ASKED. I never told them what they should believe. During my World Religions lessons, we would discuss all of the religions, and I would ask the students who were Hindus to clarify what the text said, same for my Muslim, Buddhist, and Jewish students. I always showed them respect. Some of my students went to believing churches, and would talk to me privately. They would give their testimony to the classes on their own, not disruptively, but appropriately, in context of discussions.
---Trish on 10/21/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Cash Advance


NurseRoberts, I always preach truth.
---Eloy on 10/21/10

You preach the truth as YOU see it, not as it really is. I won't argue with what it says, but you can't seem to grasp the concept that the 1st amendment relates to GOVERNMENT abuse of our rights. It does not affect what a private employer can do.

I challenge you to give me ONE example, ONE court case where a private employer was found wrong in this situation. Stop working on feelings and work on facts.
---NurseRobert on 10/21/10


\\If I were a teacher and I was terminated because I exercised my freedom of religion according to the constituion, then you better believe it, I would sue the board for an amount that was very costly for them to pay, and each board member responsible for the unlawful termination would lose their job, and their license would be revoked indefinitely.\\

Aside from the fact that you would lose, school board members are not required to be licensed.
---Cluny on 10/21/10


\\NurseRoberts, I always preach truth\\

If you want to think that, go right ahead.

The adults know better.
---Cluny on 10/21/10


NurseRoberts, I always preach truth. The 1st amendment addresses freedom of religion: The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was accepted by the House of Representatives on September 24, 1789, and by the Senate on September 25, 1789, and it was ratified by the States in 1791. This First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is also the first section of the Bill of Rights. Regarding the Christian faith, the U.S. Constitution dictates: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
---Eloy on 10/21/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Counseling


Eloy, you can state what you want but you're wrong.. Yes, its about freedom, but it is also about the government not pushing any one type of religion, and when you work in a public school, you represent the government. You cannot espouse any one form of religion.

You could sue whoever you wanted and, assuming it would even get to court, you would lose. Case law is very clear. You cannot espouse your religion in a public, government run school.

---NurseRobert on 10/21/10


part II..
Eloy.. For example, in Korb v. Raytheon, the courts ruled "Although Korb has a secured right to speak out on matters of public concern, and he has a right to express views with which Raytheon disagrees, he has no right to do so at Raytheon's expense."[69]"

In Drake v. Cheyenne Newspapers, Inc. ""[t]erminating an at-will employee for exercising his right to free speech by refusing to follow a legal directive of an employer on the employer's premises during working hours does not violate public policy."

Simply put, you have the right to say what you want, but your employer can control what you say at work.
---NurseRobert on 10/21/10


\\In a public school do you want Muslims teaching the Koran? Do you want Mormon's teaching the Book of Mormon? Do you want Wiccans teaching their religion? \\

This, to me, is the issue about forbidding prayer in public schools.

Most people seem to think that they would all be conservative Protestant prayers. Why do they think this?

How would they feel about Achmet beginning with, "In the name of Allah....." with prostrations towards Mecca?

Or Rhada Patil burning incense to Vishnu and reading from the Ghita?

I would have NO objection to prayer in public schools as long as they were always Orthodox ones. How about you?

Get my point?
---Cluny on 10/21/10


NurseRoberts, I already stated the purpose of this amendment: it is for freedom, and not censorship. And it has nothing to do with education. If I were a teacher and I was terminated because I exercised my freedom of religion according to the constituion, then you better believe it, I would sue the board for an amount that was very costly for them to pay, and each board member responsible for the unlawful termination would lose their job, and their license would be revoked indefinitely. If anyone wants to fight against God's kids, then I must warn you that the Almighty is not mocked: he takes good care of his family, he takes care of those who take care of me, and he will also take care of my enemies.
---Eloy on 10/21/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Relief


Eloy..NuuseRoberts,???

The 1st amendment was to prevent the government from setting up a national religion. In a public school do you want Muslims teaching the Koran? Do you want Mormon's teaching the Book of Mormon? Do you want Wiccans teaching their religion?

I don't want the Goverment interfering with MY religion.

As far as the Cashiers, The amendments to the Constitution prevents the Government from interfering with my rights. It does not prevent private individuals. A private entity can control what is said in their business. If you are offended by "happy holidays" then shop elsewhere. My response has always been Merry Christmas...
---NurseRobert on 10/20/10


\\Well, I am going to find a copy of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution and dissect it.\\

I'm having trouble understanding you.

In your primal post, you said that you did not find "separation of church and state" in the 14th amendment.

Now you're saying you are going to have to find a copy of the 14th amendment.

What, pray tell, did you read before?

Or are you still confusing amendments 1 and 14?

\\I have left them, as the Constitution found them, under the direction of discipline of the church or state authorities acknowledge by the several religious societies [1798]....\\

In other words, Jefferson had no trouble with the several STATES establishing and regulating religion.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


The first amendment was intended to keep Congress from establishing a state religion (as "establisment" meant at the time).

It was never intended to keep religious convictions out of the public square.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


Precisely Holmes!

You are not establishing a state religion simply by practicing your faith.
---larry on 10/20/10


Thomas Jefferson, speaks In matters of religion....I have left them, as the Constitution found them, under the direction of discipline of the church or state authorities acknowledge by the several religious societies [1798]....again in 1808...I consider the government of the U.S. as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling, with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. It must rest with the states as it can be in any human authority. Thomas Jefferson wrote in Kentucky resolution that no power over the freedom of religion [is] delegated to the U.S. by the Constitution.
---catherine on 10/20/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Settlement


Well, I am going to find a copy of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution and dissect it. Find how much we have messed it up, with misinterpretations.
---catherine on 10/20/10


\\By a "strict/literal" interpretation of the constitution, states could establish a religion....interesting.
---Rod4Him on 10/20/10\\

As a matter of fact, they did.

Congregationalism was the established church in several NE states, and Anglicanism was established in Virginia for some decades after the Constitution.

Eventually the "equal protection under the law" clause in whichever amendment was interpreted to mean that states could no longer use public funds to support established churches.

As a side note, for a considerable time in Southern states, even after the Civil War, black congregations and preachers had to be registered with the local authorities. Odious, I know.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


When wicked men ruled the whole world groans, Jews, and the Gentiles. I don't like to groan, do you? Now, God says, "it's time for a break, you've done enough". Hallelujah. Thank You Jesus for the privilege of serving you. All of you have a nice day as unto the Lord or your day will count for nothing. Absolutely, nothing. Good-day+
---catherine on 10/20/10


//The first amendment was intended to keep Congress from establishing a state religion (as "establisment" meant at the time).//

Notice the word "Congress." Originally, the Federal Government could not establish a religion, states still could. It wasn't till later that this prohibition applied also to the states and local governments.

By a "strict/literal" interpretation of the constitution, states could establish a religion....interesting.
---Rod4Him on 10/20/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Distance Learning


\\In the 1st amendment we have the law stating that the church will have no authority over the state government and the state will have no authority over the church. \\

Actually Harold, this is half-erroneous.

The first amendment was intended to keep Congress from establishing a state religion (as "establisment" meant at the time).

It was never intended to keep religious convictions out of the public square.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


Unbelievers feels that if one of God's strong chosen one became elected as president, their freedoms would be snatched away from them. Not true. My God stands for justice and righteousness. He will never approve of Congress passing laws contrary to His laws. God is not a God who will chop off your hand, or place 100 lashes on a woman's back and then stone her to death because of adultery. Christianity has been grossly misrepresented in this world. We need God. We need His blessings, we need a strong Nation. As long as God is left out of it, His judgment will come. I am tired of laws being passed, illegal laws and the president does nothing, and all the time claiming to be a Christian. Amen....Thank You Jesus+
---catherine on 10/20/10


NuuseRoberts, that is only half of the admentment, the other half which is much more important and the reason why the forefathers established this freedom, states, the government will not prohibit the free excercise of religion. But to the contrary, they disregard this freedom and continually prohibit the free expression of religion. Teachers have illegally lost their jobs because of freely expressing their Christian faith. Cashiers are told they are not allowed to say Merry "CHRISTmas" because they might offend customers, but I am offended when you reject to honor Christ on Christ's birthday, but will say "happy holidays" instead. How would you like it if I said on your birthday, "Happy Holidays"?
---Eloy on 10/20/10


Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."
Please be careful not to give Satan the credit for God's work. Even the worst of the governments were ordained by God. Our resistance to the government must be limited to the point that they make laws contrary to God's law. If believers feel that the rulers are serving evil then in the U.S. we have the responsibility to vote them out, not to rebel.
Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (I Sam. 15:23
---Harold on 10/20/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Education


\\We have tried the devil too long,\\

Who's WE, Kemo Sabe?

Speak for yourself.

**our forefathers came over here from Europe to have freedom to express their faith freely,**

It would be safer to say that the came over here to do unto others as they had been done unto. Among the Puritans, freedom of religion was NOT for those who dissented from the official Calvinist Congregationalist Church, as those who had the fancy to be Baptists, Quakers, or even Anne Hutchinson (look up her life) soon found out.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


(cont.)
there is no amendment making separation of church and state law. In the 1st amendment we have the law stating that the church will have no authority over the state government and the state will have no authority over the church. Both need to exist separately. The problem today is the government wants to separate state and God, this can not be done.
---Harold on 10/20/10


I posted this question, because, we need God. We have tried the devil too long, and it's not working...God is going to OVERTHROW all human governments which shall precede the coming of Christ as King. You will find this in Isaiah. And Isaiah warns his listeners to RUN FOR COVER because the "Judgment of God" will come come upon those who have rejected His word. Now, we need God, we don't need the devil a running things, any longer, My friends. Ahh.+[Isaiah 10:10-22].
---catherine on 10/20/10


federal,state and local governments will quickly intervene in a "christian's" right to worship freely,
---tommy3007 on 10/20/10

Tell us, Tommy, just how have they done that?

Eloy, I do not agree with your interpretation. The first amendment was set up specifically to prohibit the government from setting up an official religion. .
---NurseRobert on 10/20/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Home Equity Loans


What REALLY bothers me about htis whole issue is that while the federal,state and local governments will quickly intervene in a "christian's" right to worship freely, they will turn around and enforce the teaching of other religions instead. This implies an agressive bias toward christianity, and is less constitutional than any thing else.
---tommy3007 on 10/20/10


Catherine, yes, one sinner destroys much good, our forefathers came over here from Europe to have freedom to express their faith freely, but later the ignoramouses have misinterpreted the freedom "of" religion, being the freedom to have and express your religion wihtout censorship and prohibition by the state, into the illegal nonconstitutional interpretation of freedom "from" religion, being the church is prohibited from freely excercising their religion in the government. In this issue the government has become very very foolish indeed.
---Eloy on 10/19/10


catherine, why are you expostulating on the first amendment when your original question was about the fourteenth?

In any case:

\\Thomas Jefferson, was a wonderful president. He never promoted the concept of a secular state. \\

As a matter of fact, he founded the University of Virginia to be a state secular university that had NOTHING to do with the preparation of ministers. This was considered dangerous and totally un-Christian at the time.

Have you ever heard of the Jefferson Bible? TJ went through cutting out all references to Jesus's miracles, including His Virgin Birth (which he elsewhere compared negatively with the birth of Minerva from the head of Jupiter), the raising of Lazarus, and Christ's own Resurrection.
---Cluny on 10/20/10


Everybody is saying it. It's all you ever hear, "Separation of church and state"....Here is what I have found, so far: Our founders of separation of church and state was far different from the present way it is interpreted by the courts ad separatist. In any case, The first amendment does not guarantee freedom from religion and a secular state, but freedom of religion and a truly non-denominational Christian State....Thomas Jefferson, was a wonderful president. He never promoted the concept of a secular state. Jefferson was the one who personally introduced a resolution for a day of fasting and prayer in 1774.
---catherine on 10/19/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Interest Rates


Who said the 14th Amendment did, catherine?

It is the FIRST Amendment that says, among other things, that Congress shall make no law "respecting an establishment of religion," which in the language of the time meant there would not be a national state church.

This did NOT prevent the other states from doing so, and they did--though eventually they stopped the practice.
---Cluny on 10/19/10


Catherine, the 14th Amendment has nothing to do with religion. It is the 1st Amendment that guarantees freedom of religion. The phrase, "Separation of church and state" was coined by Thomas Jefferson in a document, I believe a letter, he wrote.
---Trish on 10/19/10


uhhh... ok.. so whats the problem?
---NurseRobert on 10/19/10


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.