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Christian Commit Suicide

I deal with clients who commit suicide, and have often pondered their afterlife. Many of whom held dear their Christian faith. When one chooses to end there they sin and therefore forgo eternity of blessings or does the issue become reconciled through the atoning blood of Christ.

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 ---Ted on 10/19/10
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kathr--- I'm still working on this (it's an age old question).

I can see both sides and find scripture that appears to support either one.
I actually believe Jesus died for all, but DON'T believe we are capable of believing in Him without the help of the Holy Spirit. I do feel that God has given up on some. They repeatedly reject Him. And God, in His foreknowledge knows they will not accept Him, but ONLY God can know this. We must share the Gospel with EVERYONE.

I LIKE to play devils advocate (figuratively!) And I believed Reformed believers had gotten a bum rap on these blogs. They ate NOT evil, lacking in compassion or any of the things you accuse them of. I know many who are humble, devout, dedicated Christians.
---Donna66 on 4/26/11

The assumption of the Calvinist should be, (and IS among those I have known over many years) that if a person has an interest in the things of God it must be because they are among the elect! The mission is in reaching the many "elect" who simply do not know the way of Salvation.
Better to presume everyone is of the "elect" ----
---Donna66 on 4/24/11

donna66, I simply asked you a question based on YOUR comment. I see no bitterness in anyway in what I aksed you.

The Mission in scripture is to reach the LOST.
1st John states that Jesus not only died for our sin BUT THE SIN OF THE WHOLE WORLD...

That's all I wanted you to acknowledge.

You're the one who sounds bitter.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/11

Is the Gospel for the Elect DIFFERENT than the Gospel for the Lost?

It must be, or Donna66 would not have come unglued.

If it's the same Gospel, Donna66 would not have become offended.

Because The True Gospel is, Jesus died on the Cross for THE SIN OF ALL MEN. And we know that it's the Blood of Christ that was shed for the forgivness of sin. And we know those who place their faiith in Christ finished work on the cross, GOD Imputes The righteousness Of Christ to them. This is called Justification. We are Justified by His Blood.

And those who are then Justified by HIS Blood are saved by HIS life. And those saved BY IS LIFE are now called the Elect. They BECOME the Elect AFTER receiving Christ, not before!
---kathr4453 on 4/26/11

I did not say Calvinists presume ALL are "elect". I said that they DO NOT assume a person is not of the elect until a person shows it their rebellion or indifference.donna66//

WHEN did you say that?

The discussion was not about YOUR judging of peoples who showed rebellion or indifference.

A person in need, suicidal, who comes into a church is what we were discussing here.

SO WHY did you take it off track to the rebellious and indifferent? I know. Because when Calvinists get cornered, THEY change the context of the conversation, and then start making rude accusations against another. Because they simply cannot answer honestly any questions presented to them without throwing up a smoke screen.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/11

Did anyone of you use your own free will to come to Christ?

"All of you who oppose say yes"

All of you who answer against the Sovereign right for God to chose whom He pleases. None of you want God to have that right.
None of you want God to get the glory. All of you who are called Christians already, fight for your own rights to save yourselves. Makes you smarter then those who didn't want to use their own free will, since you will receive eternal life and they won't for been stupid.
---Mark_V. on 4/26/11

Kathr ... There is a great danger when you say "Jesus died for all"

Because then you will be accused by some of saying that everyone is saved.

But that is not what you mean, is it?

You mean that salvation is offered to everyone, I think.
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/25/11

I. I did not say Calvinists presume ALL are "elect". I said that they DO NOT assume a person is not of the elect until a person shows it their rebellion or indifference.
2. I did not recommend anyone saying "Oh, I see you are seeking God...well, that means you are the Elect, and already saved?" That would make no sense to an unbeliever. And, besides, NOBODY is "saved" until they repent and believe in Jesus as savior.!

I will not repeat myself a 3rd time. You have convinced yourself that Calvinists/Reformed believe and act a certain way and you are incapable of hearing anything to the contrary. And you will cling to you vengeful insults and bitterness no matter what!
---Donna66 on 4/25/11

donna66, Let me aks you a question. If you say, to assume all are the elect, isn't that dangerous in your belief of limited atonement, that only certian people Jesus Blood atoned for? How could you possibly be sure their sin was atoned for? and as we see in John 6, not all who are drawn to God are drawn for the right reasons. At least Jesus gave them a chance to acept Him or reject Him on His terms. Jesus didn't walk away from them...He was actually hurt because they did and asked...will everyone else here betray me too.

I'm not saying you believe in limited atonement, but if you don't please take a stand that you don't. Then if it's not must believe Jesus died for ALL. It's either or.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/11

Kathr ... MarkV keeps on making this statement, that people want to take the glory for their own salvation. He also says that they deny that God is Sovereign.

I have asked Mark to publish the quotes where people have said this.

His answer has been to ignore it, because he knows as well as you and I and everyone else know, that ho-one has ever said those things here
---alan8566_of_uk on 4/25/11

Kathr4453--I very vaguely remember something about it. I'm quite sure I didn't call you a liar. The speaker you were listening to could be called that. I would not have called you that.
---Donna66 on 4/25/11

Part 2: It is those who are saved already who have a problem with God been the beginner and finisher of their faith. It is they who want some glory for their own salvation.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11

I find this comment a falsehood. I have never found anyone here or anywhere who take credit for saving themselves.

Jesus is who died so that we may live. Jesus shed HIS blood.

Who here believes their own shed blood saved them?

Anyone....did you save yourself by shedding your own blood. Did you die and rise again because you alone are sinless.

---kathr4453 on 4/25/11

Part 2: It is those who are saved already who have a problem with God been the beginner and finisher of their faith. It is they who want some glory for their own salvation. This comments that Calvinist will tell unbelievers they are not of the elect is ridiculous. We evangelize as everyone does. None of us knows who is of the elect. Even when someone refuses the gospel, we don't presume they are not of the elect, because God could have a different time for them to come to Christ. God calls some early and other late in their age. So we continue preaching the gospel, again and again.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11

WHEN one is presented with the one and ONLY Gospel that saves, there is no doubt that God is the one doing the Saving.

If one can presume all are teh Elect, let's then presume Jesus died for ALL.

How easy is that?

No one needs Calvinism crammed down their throat when what they need is Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/11

Marks teachings only cause distress to those who refuse to open their minds "once saved" to the very Word of God. They hear the Truth but refuse and get angry when he reminds them who saved them and why. They want to have some kind of participation on their salvation. Reform theology is for believers not for unbelievers, it teaches those already saved where they came from and who saved them. Saved them already. It is not taught to unbelievers since they don't even know Christ.
No Calvinist is going to tell an unbeliever he is not of the elect since he has no clue who is, and because those lost will not understand the spiritual things of God, nor do they understand their need to be saved whether he is of the elect or not.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11

But I have NEVER heard this preached in ANY church!! The assumption of the Calvinist should be, (and IS among those I have known over many years) that if a person has an interest in the things of God it must be because they are among the elect! The mission is in reaching the many "elect" who simply do not know the way of Salvation.
Better to presume everyone is of the "elect" ----
---Donna66 on 4/24/11

That too is so misleading. So, what are they told...Oh, I see you are seeking God...well, that means you are the Elect, and already saved?

Now if that isn't a lie from Hell. And you call others who reach out to those who never heard the Gospel and receive Christ as misleading those?
---kathr4453 on 4/25/11

donna66, haven't been in every Calvinist church, but you are HERE and hearing exactly what I am saying. Many people read these blogs. Many looking for answers. Do you think MarkV's words can actually cause someone distress? I do!

If this is not preached in Calvin Churches, Where on earth did this idea ever come from to begin with?

I was in a Calvin Church who said in 1983 those in Africa dying from thirst due to drought deserved it, because they rejected God many moons ago. You called me a liar for telling this...remember?

Yet, those descendants of those many moons ago are you and me. WHAT an ignorant statement to make.

America all came from those people. Because we are born here, doesn't dissolve any genealogy.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/11

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Kathr4453-- Perhaps I'm beginning to understand you a little better where Calvinism is concerned. Yes, if some poor person, hungry for God were to be told that perhaps God hadn't chosen them to be saved...that's could contribute to suicidal thinking.

But I have NEVER heard this preached in ANY church!! The assumption of the Calvinist should be, (and IS among those I have known over many years) that if a person has an interest in the things of God it must be because they are among the elect! The mission is in reaching the many "elect" who simply do not know the way of Salvation.
Better to presume everyone is of the "elect" unless over time they continue to have no interest and repeatedly reject the Gospel.
---Donna66 on 4/24/11

\\The Crusaders, like Muslim terrorists, were persuaded by others of their faith to sacrifice themselves. It's still not a "normal" state of mind.
---Donna66 on 4/22/1\\

Obviously, Donna66, you know nothing about the Crusades.

The Crusades were the Western Christian reaction against mahometan jihad against the native Christians of the Middle East who had been there since the times of the Apostles.

God bless the Crusaders!
---Cluny on 4/24/11

donna66, i understannd. But you must rmemmber there are many people who have no family or loved ones. There are many people alone and so lonely.

That is where WE must come in. The Church was put here to show God's LOVE to the lost, and lonely and alone.

That's why it is imperative we do not teach EXCLUSION of God's love/salvation towards ALL sinners.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/11

Donna66, I agree with you on all phases. When a person is born of God, and commits his life to Christ by faith in His works on the Cross, it is a one time deal. He might loses his faith at one point in time or another, but he never loses salvation which he received. Jesus is Eternal life, and Eternal life, never stops been Eternal. Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. If a trouble man commits suicide he does not stop having Eternal life, if he was saved by Christ. It is just nonsense. I believe those things started in the RCC through all of their superstition traditions about hell and the devil in the early history of the church.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/11

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Kathr4453-- Words have tremendous power, especially when coming from someone like a pastor, teacher or other authority. Even bullying by ones peers has been blamed for suicide.

But not everyone who is bullied or condemned by a person of authority takes their own life. If they already had suicidal tendencies, they might. But some would merely tell their tormentor where to go and be done with it. Some would brood, or complain, or get angry or sad...but not end their life because of it.

Anyone would sympathize with the person victimized by a pastor. But it's impossible to blame another person for a suicide, just as an alcoholic cannot blame someone else for his drinking problems.
---Donna66 on 4/25/11

I believe now, that GOD deals with each suicide case differently. If a Christian who is having mental or psychological problems and has lost their capacity to think straight, I believe GOD allows that and the victim goes to Heaven. But, if the Christian is in sin, willfully, and dies in unrepented sin, well aware of their rebellion....I think that they have a big chance of ending up in Hell.
---Gordon on 4/25/11

Kath4453-- I used the word "abnormal" because Muslim suicide bombers and the Kamikaze pilots of WWII were not necessarily people inclined toward least not more so than the general population as a whole. They had to be indoctrinated by someone or something. Whether it is the desire to be a martyr for one's faith or the deeply held military belief in Japan that death is more honorable than had to be taught. Your example of Jim Jones is good.

It's not uncommon for suicidal people to say "Everyone would be better off if I was dead". But that's a delusion (they are out of touch with reality).Almost always loved ones/ friends would rather have them ALIVE, despite present difficulties.
---Donna66 on 4/24/11

I know so many here hate me for speaking out against reformed Theology aka Calvinism.

Now just imaging a poor soul having never gone to church reaches out to God, finding themself in one of these churches. Believe me I KNOW the devistating effects of that.

To tell someone Jesus didn't die for them, didn't come so that THEY might find rest, or healing, or knowing in many of these churches NO GOSPEL is preached, or invitation to recieve Christ.

Or a Church that tells one they have lost their salvation...either way, it's devistating.

False Gospels lead many to suicide, and mental institutes.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/11

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To say "norman/ not Normal" state of mind, and use it describing those during the Cursades ect, then you are suggesting this abnormal state of mind can be influenced in mass. I think of Jim Jones( Christian?? People christian??) who had great charismatic power and influence over many who took their lives.

WWII Japanese Komakosee(sp) pilots were probably the first to take theirs and others, was considered an honorable act.

I think NORMAL/not normal is all relative here. Normal/not normal to who?

All above felt they were doing the honorable thing. However I am not saying they were. But could many individuals also believe in their own reasonong, they too are doing the right thing?
---kathr4453 on 4/23/11

But this question isn't about the crusaders, japanese pilots, or teen age pranks, etc. It's about "Christians" who held dear their christian faith and THEN lost hope.

This is a serious issue, for Christians and that needs to be addressed.

Even a pastors words can trigger suicide, as it did to one very close to me.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/11

BillWilla6989-- I guess I should have added that youth, plus peer pressure, is a predisposing factor. Even normal young people, lacking life experience and perspective, may not truly grasp that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

And some teen "suicides" are accidental...e.g. kids have discovered that lack of oxygen to the brain may produce a euphoric state. They hang themselves for a "high", but are unable to get out of the ligature/noose in time. I've seen more than one of these.

The Crusaders, like Muslim terrorists, were persuaded by others of their faith to sacrifice themselves. It's still not a "normal" state of mind.
---Donna66 on 4/22/11

Ted, in case you are a secular counselor, you could be getting "Christians" who have fallen through the cracks. So, the rate could be higher, without their having mature Christian people helping them.

Donna, you said, "It takes a lot of conditioning (and training) to convince them to go against their natural instincts." I think of how people in the Crusades were readily influenced to go get themselves killed.

Teenagers can get each other to do suicidal drinking and driving, smoking, etc. Peer influence can be effective and efficient, not taking much brainwashing, just the desire to belong.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/22/11

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If I were to share my own experiences, I run the risk here of those closed minded to their head knowledge and medical books. I do find those who having never experienced any such thing only speak out of a text book, or maybe from someone they knew.

However, there are MANY reasons a normal person would take their life.

Until you've been there, AND had the wonderful opportunity of being delivered out of it, by God, explaining along the way, as He handles you with hands of silk with so much LOVE you cannot imagine, it's best to be careful what you say to someone who is suicidal. Even the experts lose sommeone they were working with.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/11

Cluny- Those who kill themselves in the name of Allah are behaving properly according to radical Islam. It is not the individual, but their false religion that has led them to believe that something so abnormal is
desired and rewarded by Allah. It takes a lot of conditioning (and training) to convince them to go against their natural instincts.
---Donna66 on 4/20/11

\\(Unless you are perhaps a brainwashed terrorist, doing it for some twisted cause).\\

And then, the person involved is neither normal nor health.

Too often we are hearing of mahometan terrorists who have committed mass murders, such as Major Nidal Hassan, excused as being mentally ill.

But this brings up the question: What is it about mahometanism that drives so many people crazy?
---Cluny on 4/20/11

If I have someone who could commit suicide, I am not going to guarantee him or her Heaven if he or she does it, because this can help to tempt the person to feel safe in committing suicide. Also, I am not going to threaten the suicidal person with Hell, because Jesus "did not threaten," we have in 1 Peter 2:23. It is possible to help tempt a person to do what is wrong, including by bullying and by bad counsel that helps a person to feel excused to do what is wrong. If a person judges that there is no one worth staying in this life to love these people, this is not just a problem of chemical imbalance.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/20/11

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I, too, used to deal with clients who ended their own lives. Normal healthy people do not commit suicide. (Unless you are perhaps a brainwashed terrorist, doing it for some twisted cause). In fact, normal folks don't even consider it, except perhaps temporarily, in times of great distress.
God gives everyone, saint or sinner, a desire to LIVE above all else.
The loss of this desire is often bio-chemically based, not something for which we (nor, I believe God) would see as deserving punishment.

Express sympathy to the family and friends of a suicide, the same as you would any bereaved person.
But remember they almost always struggle with false guilt! Reassure them that NOTHING they did or didn't do was to blame.
---Donna66 on 4/20/11

what do you say in words or card to the family of the person who committed suicide?
---cb on 4/20/11

I believe a christian can commit suicide.Suicide comes from many sources. Depression, impatience for God to move in their situation, immature christians, carnal christians all are at risk for suicide. They have not received the right kind of teaching and have not matured in Christ. They may want immediate answers to their problems. God does not move according to man's timing. Any mature christian knows that. But not baby christians. We should be careful with judging people. People hold may wrong ideas and thoughts about God also. Muslims believe by killing ,they are pleasing Allah, and other wrong ideas and notions.
---Robyn on 12/9/10

mike88874--- I never said bullying is not sin or that it is OK in any way. The Bully should repent...but it would be incorrect for him to think he was a "cause" of someone's suicide. He should repent because of the pain he has caused, not because he may have caused a suicide. As I said, a person always has alternatives other than suicide.

Sadly, many people torture themselves after such a death, thinking "if only I had...(known how they felt, come home sooner, praised them more often, been more patient...) maybe this wouldn't have happened.

Nothing unkind about this.. but even if treated poorly... no one causes a suicide except the suicidal person himself.
---Donna66 on 10/29/10

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Trey, thank you so much for making those points. I believe since I have been on line I have heard that when genuine believers commit suicide they lose salvation. Just nonesense. To answer Donna5535 answer that if we know Him and the power of His resurrection wouldn't God stop the suicide from happening, and the answer is no. He might if your time is not up yet, but when your time comes it will come. We just don't know how it will end. You could die mangled in a car accident or a plane crash, no one knows but God. But no one can separate us from the Love of Christ. Even if someone does commit suicide, it does not mean he was not saved. All Christians go through tribulation, and that tribulation could be more then what others go through.
---Mark_V. on 10/29/10

what is not done in love is sin. bulling is not about love. Did the bully ever repent of that sin? Does anyboby considers bullying as being a sin?
---mike88874 on 10/28/10

Once while lying in the floor praying I was told by the Holy Spirit to get up and go down to a certain filling station. I knew the station but I did not care for the owner and seldom ever went there. In the station I found five men discussing suicide. At the end I gave my opinion and walked out the door as I walked out the door a man followed me and said, oh thank you thank you thank you for what you said. Five members of my immediate family have committed suicide in the last 10 years and I have never come to grips with it until I heard your explanation. I was just praising and worshiping the Lord not praying about suicide when the message came to go.
---mima on 10/26/10

As the body becomes ill, the mind can also become ill, this is not selfishness. The mind becomes ill to the point that it does not work properly, and what is wrong thinking becomes distorted into what seems right. So when your mind and life are in this condition of sickness, killing yourself may seem to be the right thing to do, rather than being wrong: eventhough the well-minded will know that it is wrong, the ill-minded are not able to discern this, and many times the enemy will try to tempt people in this way when they are sick and weak. I believe this is why alot of elderly people and people on mind-altering drugs kill themselves, they cannot think rightly when they are depressed and that suicide is a wrong thing to do.
---Eloy on 10/25/10

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We condemn no one, God does it..... Mike88874 brought up a good point. This world's bully's: This great crime has been going on since the beginning of time. In modern days never been addressed. Young bully's grows up to be big bully's. And some wear guns. What about grown-up bully's, who has never grown-up, men in power can be the worse bully's. Men in power picks on the weak, at least what they perceive as weak. I am here to tell you, folks, Bully's are cowards, to the max. They are really the weak ones. Hallelujah. Thank You Jesus.
---catherine on 10/23/10

Mike88874 --- NOBODY makes a person commit suicide. "Bullying" is not responsible. Bullying is heartless and cruel, but does not inevitably lead to suicide. Suicide is always a personal choice. There are always better alternatives if the sufferer will seek them.
---Donna66 on 10/23/10

Why just question the person who comits suicide, what about the person who is causing the problem, ie. the school bully,
---mike88874 on 10/23/10

Trev & Catherine Have you ever been there? If not, do not condemn.

In deepest depression, one's mind is not what it was, and the thoughts are sometimes that the spouse the children and friends would be better off without you.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/23/10

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Donna and Catherine make a good point. Christians want to live for the Lord.

But that is not to say a Christian cannot be tempted by suicide. When a chemical disorder is present (as is usually the case when suicide is considered) there is a strong delusion of hoplessness. Even Christians in this state, will temporarily find little or no help in the Word or prayer. But a good friend may save them, stand by them, pray for them and get them professional help.

Severely depressed Christians are usually very hesitant to reveal their feelings. If you have a friend who seems depressed for a long time, do not be too shy to ask if they have thought of suicide. They may not have have...but if they have, you may save their life.
---Donna66 on 10/22/10

Donna5535>>>I enjoyed reading what you wrote.... No True Christian is going to do him or her selves in.
---catherine on 10/22/10

I just heard this preached and it might shed some light on this question.

"This is eternal life, that you may Know HIM."

So if we know HIM, and we are "In Christ Jesus" and we commit suicide....then do we really KNOW Him? In the power of His resurrection?

To KNOW HIM is to LOVE HIM so even if we think about committing suicide, HE WHO KEEPS US, will he not "give His angels charge over you lest you strike your foot up against a stone?"

Will he not SEND HLEP OUR WAY BEFORE WE COMMIT Suicide? This is a very interesting question and I'd like to hear and read other's responses.
---Donna5535 on 10/22/10

Let me first say, that committing suicide is the most selfish act a person can perform. It is sinful and wrong. God can turn around any situation. He is a BIG GOD, a God of miracles. He is the Great Physician.

The Apostle Paul states this:
Ro8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Ro8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The first thing he says is death. Our death does not seperate us. If Christ died for us then our life does not seperate us from God. We are saved by grace!
---trey on 10/22/10

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\\The Lord rejected Saul. Lost as a three dollar bill.\\

How do you bear knowing how God judges people for their eternal fates, catherine?

It must be a terrible burden.

\\ He is in hell, will be forever.\\

You forgot to shout, "HALLELUJAH!" in all caps.
---Cluny on 10/22/10

Does a Christian who dies of diabetic damage to his organs go to hell? He had a prescription for insulin...but couldn't bring himself to take it. He caused his own death by his decision. What about a Christian who drives recklessly, knowing the danger. If his negligence causes his death, does he go to hell?

The decision to commit suicide is an unreasoned one. It comes from a desire to end extreme personal suffering in the face of perceived hopelessness. It's not God's will, we must do everything to prevent it. It's based on a misunderstanding of the situation. But will the Christian go to hell because of it? I don't think so.

Does God have mercy on us in our foolishness? I'd say, more often than we know.
---Donna66 on 10/21/10

Saul consulted a spiritist, he tried to kill David, he pursued David his whole life, Saul stated out well, but, he was a coward, and became disobedient. Saul was killed in a great battle with the Philistines....The Lord rejected Saul. Lost as a three dollar bill. He is in hell, will be forever. Well, Israel wanted a king like the pagan Nations. They wanted a king who would fight for them and protect them. So God gave in, even though He knew that their motives were not right. God gave them Saul---a COWARD.
---catherine on 10/21/10

We should remember that King Saul committed suicide.
We should also remember that he was told by Samuel that he would be with him(Saul) after his death.

If we can agree on where Samuel was we will be able to know where Saul(who committed suicide) went!!!
---mima on 10/21/10

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If I should ever see any human-being attempting suicide, by God's power, I would yell as loud as I could> ARE YOU READY TO GO TO HELL. Satan wants you. Stop it right now. Get down from that high building, please. And I would be talking to my Savior at the same time. Help me Jesus, help me. We just cannot allow this poor lost soul in hell.... No matter how bad things seem to be here folks. Hell, is much, much, worse....I do not believe in cuddling lost souls>>> Well, lets talk about it. You don't really want to do this. Things can't be that bad. Well, yes they are to a poor lost suicidal person. Pleeeese.
---catherine on 10/21/10

Most often the person who commits suicide has an ill mind to where their right-thinking is impaired, and therefore many think that taking their life is the only solution available to their current condition. Therefore the Judge of all the earth will not condemn them for their self-destruction when they could not see any other helps available to them. But if a person kills themself because they chose to do so foolishly as in tempting God, playing a dare, or doing it when foolishly getting drunk or wasted on drugs, then there is accountability for their action. If the soul thinks it is a sin, and begs the Lord for forgiveness as they are killing themself, God is able to extend mercy. God Judges, and he knows who is sinuous and who are righteous.
---Eloy on 10/21/10

God chooses when your life will end.
When you take your own life is Not park of it, just like Judas when he hanged himself.
---Lawrence on 10/21/10

I've looked into this matter in Scripture, in articles of personal experiences, and I've had suicidal feelings, myself, before, I know what it feels like. I'm more inclined now, than ever before, to believe that one will end up in Hell for committing suicide. But, why is that? It seems so cruel for GOD to send someone to Hell when they were just having problems they felt overwhelmed by, with seemingly "no way out"? Because, first, it shows a lack of trust and faith in GOD to be the "Answer" for them. To strengthen them to be "delivered through it". Secondly, because it is SELF-MURDER. "Thou shalt not kill." includes yourself. But, if nothing else, the person would end up before a very angry GOD.
---Gordon on 10/20/10

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I like what---Harold on 10/20/10 has to say.
---mima on 10/20/10

Ditto, Amen brother Harold with a great explantion of 3D salvation.
---larry on 10/20/10

Mark, I didn't intend to insult, I just want people to be careful in what they teach. I'm sure you can appreciate that, and your right, I did miss the point.

Anyway I will desist, and agree with you that in many if not most cases with those who were truly saved it will likely be forgiven, as even Paul explains someone who shipwrecks their faith coming to glory as if through flames, and part of the Lord's testimony is that "all manner of sin shall be forgiven unto men."

Please forgive me for comparing you to Jim Jones. I have to confess I did feel a bit jabbed by some of your commentary too, nonetheless I still feel it's imperative to look at the questions here from every angle regardless of their context.
---peter on 10/20/10

The point you seemed to have missed is that...
---peter on 10/20/10

Thank you for the unprovoked insult. I have been called many things but never JJ.

I did not miss your point, and the blog question is what happens when a REAL TRUE believer commits suicide. Everyone here knows that to say one sinner's prayer does not make you a believer or a saint. But what if a true believer falls prey to the enemy and at a weak time commits suicide?

The point you seem to miss is that many say that suicide is NEVER forgiven by God. It is an unpardonable sin and anybody who commits it will NOT go to heaven. This is unBiblical and must be understood as such. That is the reason why I corresponded with you.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/20/10

I like what---Harold on 10/20/10 has to say.
---mima on 10/20/10

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OK Mark, if you wanna be the Jim Jones of Christianet be my guest, but I don't want your cool aid.

The point you seemed to have missed is that case by case weather they confessed faith or not makes no difference. Lots of people will be turned away by Jesus who in this life used his name to describe themselves, ("many will say in that day") and that teaching came straight from his own lips.

I don't want to argue with you because there is this idea in Christianity that you say a prayer and go on like nothing ever happened and your saved. If that's what you choose to believe be my guest, but that's not in keeping with all that the Lord taught. The parable of the sower is a perfect example.
---peter on 10/20/10

We donot know their mindset & why they did this, so only God can make that choice.
---candice on 10/20/10

and I say you oversimplify this issue.

The matter of the unforgivable sin very well COULD play a factor here.
---peter on 10/20/10

I say you over-complicate salvation. This is a second-year seminary hypothetical question, completely hogwash.

Jesus said unless your faith is like that of a child, you would not inherit the kingdom of God. How many children you know struggle with defining the "unforgivable sin"?

I believe so strongly in the sovereignty of God that I am positive if you are a child of His and you commit the "unpardonable sin", He will surely forgive you of it.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/20/10

I think we have to remember 1) Thou shall not kill is a command, and not a choice and 2) God judges by the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

So let's say we want to commit suicide because we feel our purpose in life is over, let's say we believed that lie from the devil. Wouldn't God then judge us by the thoughts and intentions of our heart rather than from believing the devil's lie that our purpose in life is over? Does anyone have insight to this question I Have? Not that I'm thinking about suicide, but yes in my past I have thought about it and wondered where I'd end up, in heaven or hell.
---Donna5535 on 10/20/10

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For those of you suffering from depression, there IS help available.

Depression is a PHYSICAL DISEASE. If you couldn't see well, would wearing glasses show lack of faith?

It's the same with depression. If meds help, take them, and thank God for the provision He has made for you.
---Cluny on 10/20/10

"He or she will not go to heaven if unforgiven", Saith the Lord thy God....If you are truly chosen, God will keep you from doing yourself in. Who has not thought about it? When God gets a-hold of you. I mean, really thought about it....You don't know what pain is, until God gets a hold of you. OUCH. Hallelujah.
---catherine on 10/20/10

In my past when in times of deep depression and sorrow and a longing just to be with God and be removed from this evil world, I had considered suicide. During those times I could always hear a voice telling me that if I did such a horrible thing I would void all plans God had for my life. It also reminded me of the hurt my family would go.

Thats when I began to see that suicide is a totally selfish act. Anyone who does so is only thinking of themselves. I think "thou shalt not murder" covers US as well. However we also know from scripture that murder is not unpardonable. Many Biblical icons committed it, including Paul.

Im not condoning murder, but we cant be too quick to judge someone who commits it either.
---JackB on 10/20/10

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ an thou shalt be saved" Salvation is the gift from God of eternal life, it only conditioned on the work of Christ, not man. The suicide though not approved of by God was know of by him before salvation was given. If the person was truly a believer, though earthly pressed to extremes, he is saved for eternity.
Note however that all deliberate sins committed after salvation losses rewards in Heaven. Salvation is only the beginning, we are expected to obey and work for the glory of the kingdom.
---Harold on 10/20/10

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Whatsoever is not of faith is sin Romans 14:23 and he that doubts is damned if he eats,because he eats not of faith:for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. That is true of all things in our lives. There is no faith in one taking their own life,for faith would stand believing there is always hope in God through Jesus. One can deduce that since anything not of faith is sin that indeed the act of taking ones life is sin,and for that there is always conquences. Wouldn't killing oneself be murder? I don't know how God views people who are mentally ill and if that determines the severity of the judgement against them,I would think so,and very much hope so.
---Darlene_1 on 10/20/10

I disagree Mark Eaton and I say you oversimplify this issue.

The matter of the unforgivable sin very well COULD play a factor here.

The reason I say that is because to testify openly against the hope of God's power was the sin in question. The intent of the heart is now the only thing left in play. Obviously the Pharisees had intentionally denied what they had known and that openly to lead others to adopt their conclusions. You and I have no idea what's going through the mind of someone who does this, and so there's no cut and paste answer as you suppose. ONLY God can answer this and it's on an individual basis, very dangerous territory.
---peter on 10/20/10

If after hearing someone ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save their soul you cannot say with certainty that they are saved then you deny the following Scriptures.

John 6:37," All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Romans 10:13,Acts 2:21 and Joel 2:32

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

While witnessing I've heard literally hundreds of people call on the name of the Lord to be saved. I have absolutely no doubt that each and every one received the salvation they sought from the Lord Jesus Christ.

I have never had someone say to me after calling" I do not feel saved"
---mima on 10/20/10

That's a really tough question and many will say that they've nailed it down. The truth is this question cannot be answered definitively on this side of the clouds.
---peter on 10/19/10

If this question cannot be answered, then no one can have assurance of being saved. Either this sin is covered by the blood or Jesus or it is not. You must decide for yourself.

However, is this sin not murder? Is murder covered by the blood of Jesus? Can murderers be saved?

Your issue is either the timing of the sin or the fact that the person could not repent before they died. Either question is answered by the Bible.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/20/10

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That's a really tough question and many will say that they've nailed it down. The truth is this question cannot be answered definitively on this side of the clouds.

The scripture gives hints here and there but no where is it stated it's unforgivable. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit however is unforgivable "in this age and the age to come" weather it's a blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to kill yourself is impossible to derive from the context of the teaching Jesus Gave.

The danger in teaching it's forgivable is that you say it's ok to seek permanent solutions to temporary problems, worse it defies the faith of the believer who was saved by grace through FAITH to begin with.
---peter on 10/19/10

God Himself is the only one who can sort such terrible tragedies out with both justice and mercy.

However, I can't help wondering why so many of your clients commit suicide.
---Cluny on 10/20/10

Hi, Ted . . . "faith" can be only religious and emotional, maybe for self-image or status. *When* such faith fails us, ones can kill themselves. Many suppose that faith means that if we do all we can, then God will help us.

This can indeed be suicidal. We humans can worship our own *independence*. Then, *when* we fail our own selves, ones can decide there is no "hope". But such hope was doomed if it was hope in oneself (Luke 9:23-24, Proverbs 3:5-6, 2 Corinthians 3:5).

But if we learn how to obey Jesus in "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6), "Love never fails," (in 1 Corinthians 13:8) "and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)
---Bill on 10/20/10

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