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Qualify To Be A Disciple

"Scripture Luke 14:26
" If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Question to you qualify to be a disciple?

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 ---mima on 10/20/10
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Kev, as I've frequently said here, I'm Orthodox, so I ought to know what the "Greeke Churche" has taught.

\\Also that the Greeke Churche did neuer receaue the sayde Bishop of Rome for their vniuersall heade,.\\

The Orthodox Church has never denied that the Bishop of Rome is the first among equals and has the primacy. What has been in dispute is exactly what this primacy means.

It's obvious that whoever you are quoting is projecting his own prejudices onto Orthodoxy.
---Cluny on 11/27/10


44 I vvryte as a memoriall,
For euer to indure:
Of Cassianus schoolemaister,
all others to allure.
45 To constancye vnder the crosse,
of theyr profession:
Accomptyng gaine vvhat euer losse,
for Christ they take vpon.

I respect Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica, Cassianus (as afore mentioned), and Ambrose, as true teachers. The story of Anselm, the councels, and the Greek Church which ''hath of long tyme dissented from the Latin churche in many and sondry pointes'' are truely mentioned in Iohn Foxe's book.
Item, that the place: Pasce oues meas, was not special to Peter alone, but generall to all the Apostles Also that the Greeke Churche did neuer receaue the sayde Bishop of Rome for their vniuersall heade,.
---Kev on 11/26/10


What I mean is that I see this very thing in the lives and conversations of the Apostles and old-school European Christians... I Thessalonians 2:10, Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily, & iustly, & vnblameably we behaued our selues among you that beleeue.

The continued reading of verses 11-12 includes outstanding exhortation wordes, which Christians in the 21st Century verily should take heed to.

And, did not Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica in the first chap. of his book, layeth all the blame and fault of the dissention & schisme betwene the East and the West Church upon the Pope? He affirmed that the Pope onely would commaund what him listed, were it neuer so contrary to all the olde and auncient canons.
---Kev on 11/26/10


\\I miss old-school European Christians.\\

What do you mean by this, Kev?

You mean like Ambrose, Anselm, John Cassian, and Nicholas Cabasilas?

Their works are still available, even in excellent translations.
---Cluny on 11/26/10


I miss old-school European Christians.
---Kev on 11/26/10




I think what he meant by hating mother/brother/children etc, was that we needed to consider whether we would sever ties with our earthly family if they opposed Jesus Christ.

It would be painful but I would. I hope I have raised my children well enough they wouldnt make such a foolish mistake.
---JackB on 11/25/10


\\I am the only one saved in my family. My cousin who claims to be a Christian doesn't believe tongues are for today, doesn't believe the gifts of the Spirit are moving today, doesn't believe you need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. She believes you get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when you say the sinners prayer which isn't even in the bible.
---Donna5535 on 10/25/10\\

You need to see things from God's viewpoint, Donna.

Your cousin may be closer to the gates of heaven than yourself.

And I will say about tongues that those who claim this gift have the same problem learning Biblical languages as those not so fortunate.
---Cluny on 11/25/10


without "sugarcoating" or some other explanation, theses two verses invalidate all scripture.
---aka on 10/23/10

There is no contradiction with these two verses. The seeming contradiction is a matter of timing.

In the Luke passage, Jesus is describing someone who is not yet "in the light" as the 1 John passage describes. The person has not yet become a disciple. But Jesus says to become a disciple, he must hate/disregard his family and instead, love Jesus enough to give them all up.

Once this personb becomes a disciple, why then he MUST love his brethren and family, otherwise, he is not a true disciple.

It is only a "seeming" contradiction.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/25/10


I think some of us here know what the word hate means in the bible.

Hate in the bible means "a less love."

Just for the record, there are MANY zillions of Christians out there who can't let go of their family, who remain loyal to their doctrines, etc., and they really don't "come out from amoung them and be ye separate" says the Lord.

I am the only one saved in my family. My cousin who claims to be a Christian doesn't believe tongues are for today, doesn't believe the gifts of the Spirit are moving today, doesn't believe you need the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. She believes you get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when you say the sinners prayer which isn't even in the bible.
---Donna5535 on 10/25/10


'mizeo' is the phonetic spelling (or misspelling) of 'miseo', which was the word used in both scriptures.

consider the two different audiences. Jesus spoke to an audience that did not know the whole Truth yet. John's audience was believers of the Risen Christ.
---aka on 10/24/10




One MUST use verses within context of chapter as applied to similar Scripture not all other Scriptures

Greek language ALSO allows meaning of miseo to a preference of one thing over another

HOWEVER

by taking miseo and applying "hate" to its meaning then FINDING Scripture that has the literal meaning of hate which OF COURSE IS misapplying

further word in Luke 14 is miSeo - not miZeo maybe there lies the gross misunderstanding

only mens reasoning contradicts Holy Scripture to apply hate as meaning in Luke 14:26 it WOULD THEN contradict Exodus 20:12

word hate in English has a strict meaning as translated from Greek ...other usage in OT where the Hebrew equivalent is given to meaning LOVE LESS
---Rhonda on 10/23/10


Ye I am. I weighed the cost before making the desicion & now I am seeing why it's a narrow way, but Jesus paid a higher price, his death & resurection for us.
I am a follower of Christ. By being so and not following mainstream churches and trends, my two sisters disowned me ,and I am not that popular. My inlaws do not understand the way we chose since my family isn't into the trendy things or accept mainstream doctrines that donot go with the bible. It's not easy, nor should be, but I wouldn't change it.I am where God put me & will finish the race no matter how long it is.
---Candice on 10/23/10


Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his...brethren...he cannot be my disciple.

1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth(mizeo) his brother, is in darkness even until now.

without "sugarcoating" or some other explanation, theses two verses invalidate all scripture.

I believe in the former verse, Jesus is saying to hate the sin and not the sinner.* I believe the writer in the latter verse means exactly what it says.

*sometimes the sinner and sin become one and that is where fellowship needs to be ended.
---aka on 10/23/10


'Mizeo' used 41 times translated 'hate' i.e.
Tts 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating(mizeo) one another.
Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated(mizeo) iniquity, therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth(mizeo) his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth(mizeo) his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Don't sugarcoat it just because it doesn't fit your perception of things..
---micha9344 on 10/22/10


curious how this post turned into the world "hating christians"

the term hate in Luke 14:26 is from the original Greek word miseo, meaning
"to love less"

Christ was saying no man can come to HIM if they do not LOVE LESS all others specifically family

this is why the first 4 commandments are to LOVE God FIRST and the last 6 commandments are to love mankind

Matthew 19:29 describes the ultimate reward of those sacrificing NOW to live Gods Way

the sacrifice of placing The Father in Heaven FIRST in one's life
---Rhonda on 10/22/10


alan8566_of_uk ppsstttt, please come here, okay? Come closer alan...please?

Have you NOT read the scriptures? Jesus said, and I quote Him on this:

Matthew 10:22 - And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake:

Luke 21:17 - And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

John 15:18 - If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

I only gave you 3 scriptures, but there are MANY times in the bible where Jesus said this.

alan, PLEASE read the Word of GOD FIRST before you cast the FIRST STONE, okay? Thank you my friend. Oh wait, you may not be my friend after you read this post..LOL!!!
---Donna5535 on 10/22/10


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Anyway, Jesus was talking about the traditions, customs, and religions of the people not the actual people.

---aka on 10/21/10


I seldom feel that I qualify.

Laying aside everything for the sake of knowing Jesus is my earnest desire. I do so like Paul, want only to know Christ and Him crucified, but I find myself tethered to the ground by job, family, and responsibilities. I feel so often like a failure when I can only give Him a few minutes of my day.

Yet, I know He understands the motivations of my heart and will bring them into the light on that day and this gives me encouragement and strengthens me. He will judge me justly and rightly on that day and He will be able to see that I did it all, I said it all, I gave it all, just to know Him more.
---Mark_Eaton on 10/21/10


Donna .. Are you sure you qualify?

The question, is whether we should hate our father, mother, children & brethren ... not whether thay hate us.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/21/10


Knowing Him by the Spirit is better than physical proximity. He did say that it was expedient that He go away. The disciples who walked with Him in the flesh were not sons of God until after He rose from the dead and they believed. We are sons of God by faith and don't have to wait on an event to be so.
---Linda on 10/20/10


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No, and since I can't follow Christ in the flesh and physical proximity of those world changing three years I can't be a disciple, but I needn't be for Christ requires dicipleship as faith in action. The two (disciple and discipleship) are not the same and everyone has the ability to be the second.

Great question.
---larry on 10/20/10


yes and no.

all-in-all

His POV matters, and

not mine.
---aka on 10/20/10


The scripture is not in very proper or usable english but the message is if we have no issues within the family or within ourselves then we are selfrighteous and and cannot see ourselves as we really are-unrighteous.In this selfrighteous condition one would have no need to be anyone's disciple.
The door is wide open to all people who have found the Father.His son needs not to be present and no restrictions on gender,race or ethnic origins.All may apply within the heart.
---earl on 10/20/10


Good afternoon Donna5535. GOOD TESTIMONY. I find myself in the same boat. Jesus did warn us of all men hating us. I say all because there are so few of you and so many of them. If they hated me first the world is going to hate you, also. Your worse enemy will be in your very own family, and that would be your most hurtful [In so many words, He said it].
---catherine on 10/20/10


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Unfortunately yes I qualify. I say unfortunately because I've had to suffer much persecution from my own mother and sister and family members because I'm the only one saved and of course they all think I'm in a cult and they're the ones going to heaven and I'm going to hell.

I have tried to tell them what Jesus said, "I am the way, the ONLY way to the Father, no man goes to the Father but by me."

They all think they're going to heaven because they're "good" people. So I've lost alot of my family members and they don't bother with me now. But like Paul said, "I've gained Christ" and for that I'm happy!!!!
---Donna5535 on 10/20/10


You become a disciple of Christ when you surrender you self totally to His Lordship. We do not make him lord, he is lord. Then we must give ourselves to seeking him by studying his word. All worldly belongings, relationships, and desires must be second to our devotion to him. Then you are his disciple, no matter what stage you are in this service.
---Harold on 10/20/10


Finding the mundane life we have in contempt in comparison to walking with him is to really know him. Anything less is a love of the world, and James and John both say that you cannot love the world and love God.
Similarly Jesus said that a man cannot serve two masters, he spoke in terms of the single biggest temptation people have to sin, Money.
The text book example comes in Acts with annanias and saphira lied to Peter to save their money for themselves, the Holy Spirit killed em dead on the spot.

In short all down here belongs to him from whence it came, and thus should be seen as temporal, and held as loosely as something you're about to drop anyway. Where will life be when he snatches it from your tight grip without notice?
---peter on 10/20/10


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