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What Is Immortality

What is immortality and does man possess it now or will it be given to him in the eternal state?

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 ---leej on 10/21/10
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You do know that immortality, and eternal life are the same thing right?
---francis on 10/28/10


Gordon: "Wheras, man, made in the Image of GOD, is "immortal" from the day he was created"

No, no, no! That is logically contradictory to the scripture - only God has [present tense, currently] immortality. We don't get to be immortal until the resurrection and the putting on of immortality at the second coming. That's the problem with Halloween spook theology - it doesn't line up with scripture.
---jerry6593 on 10/28/10


Rhonda //Simply stated history proves holy roman empire of church and state borrowed immortality of soul for purpose of controlling masses of common people with fear necessary for obedience to the state...blab blab blab

No respectable church history will agree with you. most Sabbaterians were not even aware of the fact that the Eastern churches were not not part of the Roman Catholic church. In fact, they often opposed the church at Rome.

Stupid teachers often produce stupid pupils, and that is where many of your problems lie. Sabbaterians demands ignorance of church history and often uses religious prejudice to gain converts.
---leej on 10/27/10


Simply stated history proves holy roman empire of church and state borrowed immortality of soul for purpose of controlling masses of common people with fear necessary for obedience to the state ...Satan the great deceiver was successful with Eve and continues with religious deception and false doctrine of immortality of the soul Rev. 12:9 ...if one possess immortality than the GIFT is hollow Rom 5:17,18 6:23

Matt 27:26, 28 1Pet 1:19 Isa 53:12 Christ died His life-blood shed and SOUL poured out unto death Ezel 18:4,20 Exodus 31:14 Psalm 30:3 John 5:28-29 ...King David is still buried Acts 2:29

...I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead Phil 3:lO-11

BELIEVE Gods Word rewards given at Christ return 1Corin 15
---Rhonda on 10/27/10


1John 5:13 does not IMPLY eternal life now ...otherwise it would contradict 1John 5:1, 5:4 and deny rewards given 1Corin 15:22,23,35,36) as previously posted and ignored

instead of correctly dividing Word of God one IGNORES contradictions to serve their delusional belief of immortality serving up more Scripture in ERROR

to further compound their gross misunderstanding rejecting Gods Word in 6 verses of immortality as future reward and Apostles describe overcoming patience SEEKING immortality because these do not FIT their LIE

AGAIN most OBVIOUS one would not need patience or to seek for immortality as Apostles describe if one already HAD ...choose Gods plain truth not lies of mortal men
---Rhonda on 10/27/10




John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

francis says "no".

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life,

And there is yet other verses that you have to interpret -

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1Jo 5:11 And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Clearly you're as blind as your Roman Catholic friends in that scripture has to be interpreted in accordance to their man-made doctrines (or should I say 'woman-made' doctrines?).
---leej on 10/27/10


immortal mentioned once ...only Christ is immortal

immortality mentioned only 5 times ...these verses are clear immortality is future reward

these rewards are given and death is defeated as explained when Christ returns 1Corin 15

Rom 2:7 ...by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life

Apostles understood by PATIENCE Christ gives reward of immortality and eternal life at His return

applying religious LIE that one has immortality is simply foolish when reading Rom 2:7 the contradiction is glaring...one cannot be patient and receive the thing or HAVE the gifts now because OBVIOUSLY one would not need patience or to seek for something one already HAD
---Rhonda on 10/27/10


John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
---leej on 10/27/10
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE :
Revelation 2:11 He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the SECOND DEATH.
>>>

How do you interpret 1 John 5:13?

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
---leej on 10/27/10
Those who believe in God has THE PROMISE / HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, PROMISED before the world began,

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life.
---francis on 10/27/10


francis //If any man has eternal life NOW why would he die?

Hear the words of that Jesus fella -

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Francis - Believest thou this? Please answer.

Are you stuck in the same corner as our friend jerry?
---leej on 10/27/10


francis ....people who are alive today, even christians possess eternal life right now?

How do you interpret 1 John 5:13?

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Any good English grammar should tell you that 'have' is present tense.

Obviously you have a conflict between what you are taught and what the Bible teaches.

Suggest you find a good Bible teaching church otherwise you will remain in ignorance of some of the most important concepts found within the Bible.
---leej on 10/27/10




//All he does is answer you with Scripture, Scripture that you agnore and look for something that implies you are right.

And that has always been the problem with Jerry, he absolutely ignores the Scripture provided to him as they do not support what he wants to believe.

And at the base of his belief system is the teachings of Ellen White which reflects the teachings of the ancient Judaizers.
---leej on 10/27/10


.
---Mark_V. on 10/27/10
WAIT A MINUTE!

are you actually defending LEEJ and saying that people who are alive today, even christians possess eternal life right now?

Did god not prevent Adam from eating from the tree of life, so that he would not live forever?

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

What do you see as the difference between IMMORTALITY, LIVING FOREVER, and HAVING ETERNAL LIFE?

If any man has eternal life NOW why would he die?
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
---francis on 10/27/10


francis -//What is eternal life

The expression occurs frequently in the NT Mt 7:14 18:8,9 Lu 10:28

It comprises the whole future of the redeemed Lu 16:9.

It is the final reward and glory into which the children of God enter 1Ti 6:12,19 Ro 6:22 Ga 6:8 1Ti 1:16 Ro 5:21 their Sabbath of rest Heb 4:9.

The newness of life which the believer derives from Christ Ro 6:4 is the very essence of salvation, and hence the life of glory or the eternal life must also be theirs Ro 6:8 2Ti 2:11,12 Ro 5:17,21 8:30 Eph 2:5,6

It is the "gift of God in Jesus Christ our Lord" Ro 6:23

The life the faithful have here on earth Joh 3:36 5:24 6:47,53-58 is inseparably connected with the eternal life beyond...
---leej on 10/27/10


What is the difference between "eternal life" and " immortality?"

In a nutshell, eternal life pertains to the immaterial part of our being whereas immortality pertains to that body we will receive upon the resurrection.

The phrase in Co 15:53 For "this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality" basically has that implication.

Since we already have eternal life as a present possession according to 1 John 3:15, 5:11,13, the body we WILL HAVE after the resurrection will be a glorified and immortal body.
---leej on 10/27/10


Yes Scripture does tell us that at the resurrection, those that have been given eternal life will be given immortality.
---leej on 10/27/10

What is the difference between "eternal life" and " immortality?"
---francis on 10/27/10


Jerry, I do not ever see Leej backed into a corner. He has answered very kindly and has answered everyone of your answers with Scripture. It is you who is backed up into a corner, and when you have no answers you go to your friends for support. Sometimes even someone else. He disagrees with what you follow and from whom you learned from. E. White had alot of believes that do not line up with Scripture and I believe when you put a question out, some of those believes come out that are not Scriptural. All he does is answer you with Scripture, Scripture that you agnore and look for something that implies you are right.
---Mark_V. on 10/27/10


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Jerry6593, How long will the Saints live in Heaven? Forever and ever, right? Right. So, that Verse in the Scriptures, which you pointed out about "GOD alone having Immortality" cannot mean that GOD only will live on forever in Eternity. Rather, IT MEANS, that GOD alone is Immortal from Eternity Past through Eternity Future. Wheras, man, made in the Image of GOD, is "immortal" from the day he was created, his soul will live on throughout Eternity, either in Heaven or in the Lake of Fire. And, man's "immortally living on" is only possible because of GOD making it so. Man is NOT immortal in and of himself as GOD is.
---Gordon on 10/27/10


Yes Scripture does tell us that at the resurrection, those that have been given eternal life will be given immortality.

1 Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

And Scripture does support the fact that eternal life is a present possession.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jo 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Those that reject the plain teachings of scripture on this subject really believe in a salvation by works.
---leej on 10/27/10


//Also, his: "One need not wait until the Judgment to be assured of eternal life." is nothing but plain old OSAS - "I got saved" so now I'm free to sin all I want. Jesus is bringing His reward with Him.

Those that support the position that Christians are free to sin have little or no understanding of the Word of God.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Of course, it is obvious Jerry does have a sin problem as he attempts to become righteous in the power of the flesh believing he must be a co-savior with Jesus to merit eternal life.
---leej on 10/27/10


//"One need not wait until the Judgment to be assured of eternal life." is nothing but plain old OSAS - blab blab blab blab...

Those that believe they can save themselves by their own works of righteousness really are not born of God's Spirit. John 3:3-4

The Christian can be assured of his salvation for the word of God plainly states that He has given him the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.

2Co 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Of course, those lacking the Spirit are blind and lack understanding.
---leej on 10/27/10


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Rhonda, Francis: If you'll notice, when our friend Lee is backed into a logical corner, he begins to spew nonsense and then brings out the big gun - hate SDAs and Ellen White. Why that is relevant to a Bible-based discussion, I don't know, but that's just his way.

His statement: "immortality will be given to the resurrected and glorified body of believers who currently possess eternal life" is self-contradictory. People who possess eternal life don't need to "put on" immortality.

Also, his: "One need not wait until the Judgment to be assured of eternal life." is nothing but plain old OSAS - "I got saved" so now I'm free to sin all I want. Jesus is bringing His reward with Him.
---jerry6593 on 10/27/10


Rhonda //father of lies and god of this world who blinds MANY with religious deception ...sells LIE that immortality exists now REJECTING Gods Truth of promise and reward.

Agree that immortality will be given to the resurrected and glorified body of believers who currently possess eternal life. 1 John 5:13

One need not wait until the Judgment to be assured of eternal life.

As a down payment, we are given the Holy Spirit to indwell us.

2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2Co 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

See also Eph 1:14
---leej on 10/26/10


John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,

Job is clear: the breath of God is the same as spirit of God

Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died.


explain why these wicked men have the BREATH OF LIFE which is the spirit of God in them?
---francis on 10/26/10


What is immortality and does man possess it now or will it be given to him in the eternal state?

If man possesed immortality NOW, why would people continue to die?

God ensured that man would not have imortality as a sinner:

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
---francis on 10/26/10


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Hebrews 6:17-18 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise ....to hold fast to the hope set before us
*****

heirs of the promise

hold fast to the HOPE set before us

Yes The Father in Heaven does not lie as Heb 6:17 confirms PROMISE of eternal life, salvation, and immortality are reward Christ brings at His return 1Corin 15

2 Pet3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, ... not willing that any should perish...

Eve thought surely she would not die Gen 3:4, 2Corin 11:3

father of lies and god of this world who blinds MANY with religious deception John 8:44, 2Corin 4:4, Rev 12:9 sells LIE that immortality exists now REJECTING Gods Truth of promise and reward
---Rhonda on 10/26/10


Rhonda -//easy taking one verse molding to ideas promoted in religious deception ...one simply REJECTS many dozens of verses where Apostles speak of an inheritance, hope, begotten, PROMISE (some previously provided) ...

While we have the promise and hope of eternal life to come, we can be assured that God is not a liar.

Hebrews 6:17-18 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.

Some simply will not or cannot believe what the Word of God tells us.
---leej on 10/26/10


'has' is past tense, not future tense.

...problem here is Ellen White's view that one could never be assured of one's salvation
*****

easy taking one verse molding to ideas promoted in religious deception ...one simply REJECTS many dozens of verses where Apostles speak of an inheritance, hope, begotten, PROMISE (some previously provided) ...

Apostles understood they were mortal and would die and by overcoming they would receive the rewards of those in Christ as the promise chapter 1Corin 15 outlines so beautifully

it's too bad this Ellen White you speak of was so unsure of her salvation ...maybe thats why many cling to religious deception following Eve's path
---Rhonda on 10/26/10


francis //So everyone saved or unsaved has the breath of God which is the spirit of God in them.

I think that you are stretching it way too far. While all life comes from God, our breath is not not the spirit of God.

Acts 17:24-25 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.

Only those born of God are indwelt by His Spirit.

Romans 8:9b Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Does the Spirit of Christ dwell within you or are you still living in the flesh?
---leej on 10/26/10


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An early problem with the Adventist movement was that all too many of them simply did not hold the traditional view of the Trinity, especially the belief that the Holy Spirit is a person and part of the Triune Godhead.

And we can see some in that movement today that continue to twist and distort scripture to fit what they want to believe.

To francis, hot air we exhale must be the spirit of God, ridiculous and downright stupid.
---leej on 10/26/10


Every one who did not enter noah's ark died. The bible writer says it like this:

Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died

they were discribed as such:
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

so these wicked men, who were not born again had THE BREATH OF LIFE ( the spirit of God) in their nostrils.

So everyone saved or unsaved has the breath of God which is the spirit of God in them.

the difference is not all are led by the spirit
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
---francis on 10/26/10


Rhonda -As for 1 Tim. 6:12, perhaps the New Living Translation makes it more plain.

1 Tim. 6:12 Fight the good fight for what we believe, hold tightly to the eternal life that God has given you, which you have confessed so well before many witnesses.

'has' is past tense, not future tense.

I think the problem here is Ellen White's view that one could never be assured of one's salvation, but her belief rejects what Jesus promised to those who would believe in Him. Her belief makes salvation not a gift received by grace but something one has to earn or merit.
---leej on 10/26/10


Rhonda //eternal life is a future inheritance, a hope (Titus 1:2, 3:7) a promise (1John 2:25), to those who are begotten (not yet born) of God ...all rewards at Christs return

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, ... promised before the world began,

We were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Eph. 1: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy & without blame before him in love:

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

justified means being declared righteous as the believer has been credited with the righteousness in Christ.(See Romans 1:17, 3:21, 4:6, 10:3)
---leej on 10/26/10


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Rhonda //1John 5:13 does not IMPLY eternal life now ...otherwise it would contradict 1John 5:1 (begotten not yet born) and 1John 5:4 (born of - only at Christ return when the dead are made alive 1Corin 15:22,23,35,36)

1 John 5:13 has no implication that eternal life is future but plainly states that it is a present possession. Note that the word "have" is in the present tense, not the future.

1 Cor. 15:22-23 speaks only of the resurrected physcial body which will take on immortality and live forever. It does not speak of the eternal life that was given at ones spiritual birth in Christ.
---leej on 10/26/10


...believer in Christ already has eternal life. 1 John 5:13 ....resurrected body which will live forever? ...1Co 15:53
*****

1John 5:13 does not IMPLY eternal life now ...otherwise it would contradict 1John 5:1 (begotten not yet born) and 1John 5:4 (born of - only at Christ return when the dead are made alive 1Corin 15:22,23,35,36)

by not rightly dividing 1John 5:13 one would have to IGNORE 1Tim 6:16 (only Christ has immortality) and Rom 2:7 (seek immortality)

eternal life is a future inheritance, a hope (Titus 1:2, 3:7) a promise (1John 2:25), to those who are begotten (not yet born) of God ...all rewards at Christs return

eternal now contradicts Apostles teaching to overcome 1Tim 6:11-13
---Rhonda on 10/25/10


Gordon: "For those who say only GOD is Immortal"

How about Paul? Would you believe him?

1Ti 6:14,16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: ... Who ONLY hath immortality,

Immortality is not currently in our possession - it is promised to those of us who "love His appearing", and will be "put on" at Jesus' return. Note that the unrighteous are not given immortality, and must wait 1000 years to be awakened for their dip in the lake of fire (Rev 20:5-10).
---jerry6593 on 10/26/10


Rhonda - Scripture tells us that the believer in Christ already has eternal life. 1 John 5:13

But does not immortality in Scripture speak of the resurrected body which will live forever?

1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:"Death is swallowed up in victory."
---leej on 10/25/10


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only Christ has immortality

1Tim 6:16 Who (Christ) only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen,...

religious deception teaches immortality ...per Holy Scripture True Christians SEEK immortality we do not possess

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ...:

promise of eternal life and immortality rewarded by those in Christ at return 1Corin 15

Apostles understood immortality was FUTURE promise

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life
---Rhonda on 10/25/10


francis - They answer is YES even none (sic) believers have the spirit of God.

It is very obvious you have little knowledge of English grammar. I am sure what you meant to say is 'non-believers' not 'none believers'

I can understand a few common mistakes but wonder if you have ever taken a course in English grammar.

If you have not, suggest you pick up a good grammar textbooks at your local bookstore and study it. Those that cannot use proper grammar will always be considered lacking in intelligence or semi-illiterate.

Also suggest you find a good Bible teaching church and begin a study of the book of Romans as your knowledge and understanding of the Christian life is truly appalling.
---leej on 10/25/10


francis //They answeris YES even none (sic) believers have the spirit of God. They just choose not to listen to it.

You make no sense here at all!

Christians are indwelt by God's Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

And yes, the soul that sins will die as that has been the case since Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

Romans 3:23-14 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

It is all about Jesus and the grace offered to us who would believe.
---leej on 10/25/10


Everyone who dies, sinner and saint, have the breath which God gave go back to him.

But then the " soul" that sinneth will die.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die

Here are spme people who had the BREATH OF LIFE and they all died.
Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

These all dies, and the breath of Life, returned to God, they were not immortal, even though they all had the breath of life.

This also answers the question as to whether or not none believers have the spirit / breath of God. They answeris YES even none believers have the spirit of God. They just choose not to listen to it.
---francis on 10/25/10


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Amen Jerry Gen 3:4..Ye shall not surely die

Romans 5:12 ...death passed upon all men

1Corin 15:21 ...by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead

1Corin 15:26, Rev 12:9-11 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death

believing Satans lie in Gen 3:4 easy to see why religious deception promotes belief that future promises inheritance immortality and hope of salvation are now ...REJECTING promise chapter of 1Corin 15 when all these things are fulfilled rewarded when Christ returns resurrection of ALL in Christ from dead changing from mortal to immortal as confirmed in 1Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time
---Rhonda on 10/25/10


--Gordon
There is no such thing in the bible as an immortal soul. What the bible says Goes back to God is the BREATH, not the soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---francis on 10/25/10


Francis, Mima was not at all contradictory. For, at Death, the soul leaves the dead body. The body dies and is "buried". The soul lives on, either in the Presence of the LORD, or in Hell.
---Gordon on 10/25/10


For those who say only GOD is Immortal: If a person lives forever and ever in Heaven with GOD, does that person not have a form of immortality? The Scriptures do say that GOD is Immortal, and no other Verse specifically states that man is immortal....But, people possessing Eternal Life in Heaven is a form of immortality. The Truth is, is that every human being is immortal, in that, we will all live forever in either Heaven or the Lake of Fire. GOD is Immortal, in and of HIMSELF, from Eternity Past through Eternity Future, whereas man is immortal from the point of his creation. Man is only immortal by GOD's Power. Man is not immortal of his own accord.
---Gordon on 10/25/10


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Cluny, Yes this is John 3:16, literally ranslated directly from the Greek, and not copied from an English Bible on the market. Many times on this site I will post the Holy Scriptures translated directly from the Greek and Hebrew, because it is more accurate then the English versions. The greek word "kosmon" in John 3:16 means "order, harmony", which is the opposite of chaos= disorder, discord. And pisteyo or pistos, commonly translated believe, is synonymous with peitho, as in Acts 28:24. peitho like pisteyo is commonly translated obey, believe, trust, as in Acts 5:36,37,40+ 28:24+ Mt.27:43+ Gal.5:7+ Hb.13:17.
---Eloy on 10/25/10


Rhonda: Maybe some of these folks make a living off Halloween, and therefore need for spooks to be flying about. They have adopted the Greek pagan concept of a good spook trapped inside an evil body.

I wonder why there aren't more Christian suicides if they truly believe that eternal bliss is only a short death away. I had a neighbor lady do that very thing after reading a trash novel - 'The Shack'. So sad! Her family still mourns. All because she believed Satan's first lie - "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen 3:4).
---jerry6593 on 10/25/10


\\For God he so loved the harmony, so as the Son of him, the single-sired he gave, that all in who obey him be not abandoned, but have life eternal.\\

This is not John 3:16.
---Cluny on 10/24/10


Af As a saved person you are immortal now but your immortal(celestial) body only comes after physical death.
---mima on 10/24/10

contradictory statement
Immortals do not die.
---francis on 10/24/10


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That's correct! Man does not POSSESS a soul - man IS a soul. He also does not POSSESS a spirit

Hebrews 4:12 tells us there is a division between soul and spirit.

If you translate 'spirit' as breath something loaned to us, then at death does God got a gust of wind in His face at our death?

Man is a trinity like unto God, composed of body, soul and spirit. I say this with the realization there is a constellation of different meanings in the Bible for soul and to spirit.

If there is a hell, then do people go there? Are they conscious of their existence? Christ seems to tell us that in Luke 16. Unlike what you would believe, Jesus did not make up stories or fairly tales just to make some mote point but used real events.
---leej on 10/24/10


After physical death(the saved never die spiritually) the saved individuals will be given a celestial body.
****

NOT per Holy Scripture which states it is given by Christ at His RETURN

funny how Apostles stated many times of looking forward to their inheritance, adoption, HOPE of these things to come yet counterfeit christianity claims its all here now

1Corin 15:51-54 ...a mystery, ...we shall all be changed, ...In a moment, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed ...(53)mortal must put on immortality (54): and this mortal shall have put on immortality shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory
---Rhonda on 10/24/10


After physical death(the saved never die spiritually) the saved individuals will be given a celestial body. That body will be an identifying part of immortality. As a saved person you are immortal now but your immortal(celestial) body only comes after physical death.
---mima on 10/24/10


Lee: "I believe there is an immaterial entity that does exist after death and for the Christian will be united with the resurrected body. see Mt. 10:28"

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Any entity that survives death is necessarily "immortal". Yet you stated on another blog that we are NOT immortal until the resurrection. Which is it? And if we can exist happily in a conscious, non-corporeal state, then why the necessity to be put back in a body at the resurrection?

Besides, the Bible specifically states that we will NOT be with Christ until the resurrection, since He must return to get us (John 14:3).
---jerry6593 on 10/24/10


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//I just know from Scripture that man does not possess a SOUL and a SPIRIT.

The only verse that links both of soul and spirit is Hebrews 4:12

The Bible often uses the term 'spirit' with human emotions as well as speaks of 'spirits in prison' 1 Peter 3:19 indicating some sort of immaterial entity.

"Soul in Scripture has a varied and complex constellation of meanings...and is often used in popular theology to refer to only the inner part of a person, the non-physical aspect of each human being, as well as other ways in scripture, as well" Holman Bible Dictionary.

I believe there is an immaterial entity that does exist after death and for the Christian will be united with the resurrected body. see Mt. 10:28
---leej on 10/23/10


If the "spirit" of man is inherently immortal so as to survive the death of the body, then why the necessity to "put on immortality" at the second coming (1Cor 15:52-55)?

Also, if we are inherently immortal, why does the Bible specifically say that we are NOT (1Tim 6:16)?

If we go to be with Christ at death, then why does He say that we are NOT with Him, and He must return for us (John 14:3)?

If the members of the spook belief cult had any intellectual honesty, they would answer these questions rather than wandering off on nonsense tangents.
---jerry6593 on 10/23/10


Immortality is lasting forever. We don't possess it now, when tranformed we will possess it in the eternal life. Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Corinthians 15:54
---Kimbe7395 on 10/23/10


Lee: "Apparently neither Jerry nor Francis believe that man posseses [sic] not only a soul but a spirit as well."

That's correct! Man does not POSSESS a soul - man IS a soul. He also does not POSSESS a spirit - he is LOANED the breath of life (or life force) which returns to God at death. He is also given a measure of the Holy Spirit, but He is not his to OWN, and may even be grieved away.

Which do YOU think goes to God at death, soul or spirit, or is it a Halloween spook?
---jerry6593 on 10/23/10


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Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Kill body but not soul?
Apparently people here still have a problem with multiple meanings for one word and applying each meaning according to context.
Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.
How can the dead do this with only one meaning of the word?
2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.NASB
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?
---micha9344 on 10/23/10


pierre// -....but you will remain MORTAL until Jesus returns, at which time you will be changed and MORTALITY replaced by IMMORTALTY.

That is the position of scripture.

1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

//And according to traditional Christian beliefs, one either goes to be with Jesus at death or like the rich man in the story of Larazus will end up in hell.

And we can see that in the parable of Larazus and the rich man in hell, there is a conscious in both beings. Jesus used only parables that were true to life. He was not simply a Aesop story teller.
---leej on 10/23/10


Eternal state & here is why...
Those chosen to live eternally with God & his son Jesus will have eternal life at the ressurection. not before then. Until the ressurection I agree with the bible saying that the dead are no more,we will be in the graves. See God breathed life into Adam & it was taken away at his death. Same with us until Jesus ressurects us again.
---candice on 10/23/10


leej: I don't see how I made your position exactly! I just know from Scripture that nan does not possess a SOUL and a SPIRIT.
What is a SOUL? It is the result of God combining the dust of the earth with the breath of life. Gen 2:7
What happens when one dies? The Bible does not speak of an IMMORTAL SOUL that continues to live seperatly from the body .
It tells us that at death the BREATH OF LIFE or SPIRIT returns to God who gave it and the body returns to dust and the SOUL ceases to exist.
As for the Catholic, let me just say fhat they are saved by the bloood of Jesus like everyone else, not by any "purification" in
purgatory! (But you know that already)
---Pierre on 10/22/10


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Christ died (a REAL death) rising from death to life Rom 6:9

mainstream christianity deceives many into LIE that humans "in Christ" are immortal and they are "alive" during death

if immortality is possessed NOW then one must DENY Christ rising from the dead and the resurrection of all from the dead at His return

The Word of God states eternal life is:

an inheritance Mat 5:5

a future promise Acts 2:39, 2Tim 4:6-8, Rom Gal 3:29 & 4:23, Heb 10:36 & 11:39, 1John 2:25

to be rewarded at Christ return and resurrection of all 1 Corin 15:20-23 Rev 22:12, 2Tim 1:1, Phil 3:10,11,21
---Rhonda on 10/23/10


Pierre - you stated my position exactly. The confusion here is from those who refuse to use basic dictionary definition for spiritualism.

Apparently neither Jerry nor Francis believe that man posseses not only a soul but a spirit as well.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Their position seems much akin to the Jehovah's Witnesses that upon death one ceases to exist until the Resurrection.

God simply adds water and stirs and bingo those that merit eternal life will come alive and live eternally (sarcasm).
---leej on 10/22/10


Pierre -....but you will remain MORTAL until Jesus returns, at which time you will be changed and MORTALITY replaced by IMMORTALTY.

And according to traditional Christian beliefs, one either goes to be with Jesus at death or like the rich man in the story of Larazus will end up in hell.

Or if you are a Roman Catholic, have to be cleansed of your sins by a few hundreds of years in purgatory. The shed blood of Jesus is not detergent enough!!!
---leej on 10/22/10


True Christians are on his right hand (Matt. 25:33). The goates on the left will be treated as Matthew 7:23 clearly says.
Many professing Christians are anxious about Matthew 7:22-23.

I used to be too. Until I started reading William Tyndale's Bible translation and heard wondrous words as, 'But now is God sure/that his predestinacion cannot deceaue him/nether can any man withstand or let him/and therfore haue we hope and truste againste synne.' And 'Compare therfore all maner doctrine of men vnto the scrypture & se whether they agre or not. And committe thy selfe whole & all together vnto Christ/and so shall he wyth his holy spirit and wyth all his fulnes dwell in thy soule. 'Christes workes onlye iustifye thee.'
---Kev on 10/22/10


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leej: What is there to be confused about?
The Bible tells us that GOD alone has IMMORTALITY 1 Tim6:16.
The Bible also tells us that the saved will
receive IMMORTALITY at the time of the first resurrection. 1 COR 15: 52-54 still FUTURE.
The Bible also tells us that we can have ETERNAL LIFE in the PRESENT. 1 John 5:13. Your question: If I have eternal life am I also immortal? I believe that in the heavenly record, your name could be accompanied by the words: SAVED/ETERNAL LIFE
but you will remain MORTAL until Jesus returns, at which time you will be changed and MORTALITY replaced by IMMORTALTY.
---Pierre on 10/22/10


1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,

1 Timothy 6:15 the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords,
1 Timothy 6:16 Who ONLY hath immortality,
---francis on 10/22/10


"For God he so loved the harmony, so as the Son of him, the single-sired he gave, that all in who obey him be not abandoned, but have life eternal. And it is appointed onto humans once to die, but after this the judgment. And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed the dead which die in the Lord from hereafter: Yea, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, and their works do follow them. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on life, and this mortal put on immortality. (Jn.3:16+ Hb.9:27+ Rv.14:13+ I Cor.15:52,53). Please Read- Daniel 12:2.
---Eloy on 10/22/10


tom2 //we have an eternal soul,when we die without christ we are in torment without God,if we are saved we return to God in paradise,one day we will all be judged some to eternal life with him,others to the lake of fire.

Could you supply scripture for your position?

Our Adventists friends say only God has immortality and that position is also held by the Holman Bible Dictionary.

Is the fact that believers have as a present possession eternal life simply the same as saying we will have immortality in our resurrected bodies?
---leej on 10/22/10


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LOL I am in such a state of Exhuberation today (not sure why) but I thought this question asked, What is IMMORALITY...and I was ready to answer...but since everyone gave a good response, I won't respond. Tks. (((huggss))) to all of you.
---Donna5535 on 10/22/10


1Ti 6:16 [God] Who only hath immortality!!!!
---jerry6593 on 10/22/10


Immortal is phys fleshly life down here on earth. Immortality is being changed from the phys fleshly to S-spiritual. Spiritually with God or spiritually in damnation.
---Lawrence on 10/22/10


IMMORTALITY is what the saved will receive at the first resurection. Not subject to death anymore.
ETERNAL LIFE the reward reserved for those who have have accepted the gift of salvation, through faith.
---Pierre on 10/21/10


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1 john 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

From this verse apparently eternal life is a present possession. If I have eternal life am I also immortal?

Our Adventists friends are so very confused on this issue and really need help in understanding.
---leej on 10/21/10


Immortality----exemption from death, the state of living forever....In Jesus we have God's full revelation of immortality of both body and spirit, [Resurrection, new bodies] our present bodies are fitted to conditions on earth, so will our resurrection bodies be suitable for conditions in heaven.Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt...Note: When God created Adam and Eve, He created them to live forever. [death is an enemy, also, a friend.if you are saved]...At death the body returns to dust. The spirit lives on [Gen. 3:19].
---catherine on 10/21/10


we have an eternal soul,when we die without christ we are in torment without God,if we are saved we return to God in paradise,one day we will all be judged some to eternal life with him,others to the lake of fire.
---tom2 on 10/21/10


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