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Are Biblical Arguments Justified

There are some issues where it seems there will be no agreement. Is it important to our Salvation to be on the right side of such issues?
Such as:
Pre/post trib rapture.
Predestination/Freewill
Sabbath day
Is all the argument justified?

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 ---alan8566_of_uk on 10/29/10
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Believing a lie can cause a person to lose their salvation, for a little leaven will leaven the whole lump: And it is very importatant to distinguish between the two separate testaments of the Bible.
---Eloy on 11/15/10


MarkV-- This question must be directed to the Saved, since terms like pre-trib, post-tribs freewill vs predestination, are not usually in the lexicon of the unsaved.

Nobody accepts the Lord on the basis of an argument won or lost, anyway.

It is the wooing of the Holy Spirit that draws them. And my view is that anyone who is SINCERELY seeking MUST be predestined, otherwise they would be content in their darkness.

I never considered Linda OR Jack unsaved and never thought you did either!? ( was this ever in question?)

Jhn 6:37 says: All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
---Donna66 on 11/15/10


1 CORINTHIANS 1:10 Now I beseech you,brethren ye SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be no division among you,but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and same judgment.
---RICHARD on 11/14/10


Donna66, as Linda stated:
"The reason I was so strongly involved in the freewill/predestination blog was not to change the mind of the saved but to ensure that the invitation to relationship with God was extended to those who come searching." is the same reason I answered both. To ensure the invitation to a relationship with God is heard by the Elect. Since Romans 3:11 tells us,
"There is none who understands, There is none who seeks after God"
The lost do not seek God. And only those born of the Spirit seek Him. I never considered Linda or Jack not saved.
What their mad about was their freedom, their freedom to seek God with their own free will, their own works.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/10


Being on the "right" side (whatever that is) of these controversial questions is NOT important to our SALVATION. No one is saved by believing pre or post trib. If you want to be saved, Jesus will save you, whether you believe in predestination or free will. We aren't saved by keeping the Sabbath on Saturday.

No harm in discussing these topics, however... especially if it causes people to study Scripture.
---Donna66 on 11/12/10




The word of God tells us to...Work out your own salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING!! We best get it right, Amen!
---judy6696 on 11/12/10


Donna ... Yes I am from the seat of the English language. And I have this peculiar (and that has a particular meaning) ability to spot spelling errors in the middle of a page of writing, which is why I noticed you mispelt my name.
Mind you, my fingers are not pedantic, and I need to check carefully what I have typed. So I know how easy the typos are, and don't criticise others' typos ... that's why I was jesting when I mentioned that I am not a hanging feature!!!
---Pedant on 11/5/10


While these subjects you mention make for interesting discussion, none of them are required for salvation, according to the Bible.

Acts 4:12 (NASB77)
12 "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."

John 3:16-17 (NASB77)
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. (John 3:16,17 NASB)

There are no other conditions given that are required for salvation except of know Christ as Savoir.
---wivv on 11/4/10


Pedant--I prefer the Oxford too, or Merriam Webster (considered the standard in the US ...are you from the UK?). But I'm familiar with Random House, it's not scholarly, but OK for everyday use. AND my home page on the computer has a link to it...easy.

Guess I don't understand your humor...my apologies (I didn't mean for this to become a big issue.)
---Donna66 on 11/2/10


Donna66 ... I prefer to use the Oxford English Dictionary, & I have never even heard of the Random House Dictionary!
The OED says Pedant is "a person who insists on adherance to formal rules or literal meaning"
I suppose I should repeat my earlier apology //I also apologise for not realising that you would not see that I had written in jest!//
---Pedant on 11/2/10




Right on, Mima, I'm on your side.

One of the great values of these blogs is learning what others believe and why they believe as they do. Many, being faithful attendees of their own church, have only a vague notion of the beliefs of others.

There are Godly people who believe Pre, Mid or Post trib. They won't be kept out of heaven if they turn out to be wrong!

Also there are those who believe in free will, and some who believe in predestination. (Actually, a lot of Christians believe in some combination of the two.) Fact is, there is little observable difference in the Christian lives of those on either side.
---Donna on 11/2/10


While it is true that most arguments will not be won or lost on these blogs it is equally true that it is very important to understand where people stand. You take the question of being anti-Semitic, it's important to know the person is anti-Semitic as you read their answers to anything concerning a Jew or the Jewish people. It is very interesting after being on this blog for a little while you can sometimes tell who the post is from by the way is worded for example you can always count on me to be on the side of once saved always saved.
---mima on 11/2/10


Rhonda -- These discussions are not a waste of time because they are unimportant questions. They are a waste of time because such questions as "Pre/post trib rapture" and "Predestination/Freewill", have scriptures and respected scholars that can argue EITHER WAY.

They will not be settled on these blogs or elsewhere. Becoming familiar with the arguments on both sides is constructive.
But whichever side people take, they tend to become overheated. Here we have name-calling and accusations...and that doesn't help anyone.
---Donna66 on 11/2/10


Rhonda:

I didn't say seeking Truth is irrelevant . What I DID say was people place excess importance on secondary matters. That is, placing more importance than one ought to place.

Throughout the whole New Testament we are told and told again that we must do the will of God. However, if we spend ALL our time trying to know the will of God, we don't have enough time to actually do it. This was the problem with the Pharisees - they spent so much time studying, they forgot how to put what they learned into practice.

Of course, one must study God's will in order to do it. However, we shouldn't go so far overboard with it that we become Pharisees.
---StrongAxe on 11/1/10


....people place excess importance on secondary matters, and lose track of the things that are REALLY important.
****

religious deception teaches LIE that seeking Truth is irrelevant (REALLY important) and "just" show compassion (secondary matter) ...then ADDING these LIES to Matt 25:14-30, Luke 19:11-27 ...parable of the talents (talent is growing in Spiritual understanding - REALLY important matter) servant who grew the least had his one talent (Spiritual understanding) removed and given to the servant who grew the most ...the parable explains how the faithful servants are rewarded at Christ return ...teaching LIE that understanding of correct doctrines is unimportant is teaching someone to be the Servant with the least
---Rhonda on 10/31/10


Rhonda and tom2:

In Matthew 25, Jesus gives an example of the Final Judgment. A vast multitude is brought before him, and he separates the righteous from the wicked. The criteria he uses are NOT whether they happened to believe the correct doctrines, or whether they could answer the right questions on a theology test. He cared whether they showed compassion to others. A lot of times, people place excess importance on secondary matters, and lose track of the things that are REALLY important.
---StrongAxe on 10/31/10


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Most of these discussions are a waste of time, although ....sometimes interesting to see why some people believe as they do....
*****

yes a waste of time for people who believe Gods Truth isn't important - clinging to religious deception preferring void of no Scripture in favor of ideas not found within Gods Word ...curious many are entertained by people who defend their religious organizations positions like mans rapture ...one must reject much Scripture to hold this belief

True Christians are not amused entertained by Satan's deception certainly not "interesting" seeing Holy Scripture declares MANY would be deceived ...if people are asking and searching they are seeking - not a waste of time to guide in Gods Truth
---Rhonda on 10/31/10


Gods word says on judgement day we all will give an account,and guess what?when you disagree with him what will you do then?
---tom2 on 10/31/10


Most of these discussions are a waste of time, although, I admit it is sometimes interesting to see why some people believe as they do. I hate to see Christians pick each other apart over questions that will never be settled.
Now I know why it seems markV is seemingly "stalked" by his detractors from blog to Blog.

The truth is, nobody need worry about NOT being one of the elect. Why? Because Jhn 6:37 says: All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. If you have any desire for a relationship with God, you are CHOSEN from the foundation of the word. (If you were not one of the elect you would be totally unmoved by anything Christian)
---Donna66 on 10/31/10


Here is the Gospel.

I Iohn 2:2, And he is the reconciliation for our sinnes: and not for ours onely, but also for the sinnes of the whole worlde. The Geneva New Testament Translated out of Greek by Theodore Beza (w/ the complete original 1599 Geneva notes) explains, For men of all sorts, of all ages, and all places, so that this benefite belongeth not to the Iewes onely, of whome he speaketh as appeareth, verse 7, but also to other nations.

Amazing.

The Geneva Bible is a very faithful translation, and teaches true theology. It's an outstanding translation, translated by "the most perfect school of CHRIST since the days of the Apostles" as Iohn Knox confessed.
---Kev on 10/30/10


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Like Linda said, it is about what is in the heart. Paul refused to have Titus circumcised but he insisted on Timothy being circumcised. He taught that if you feel it is wrong to eat meat that's ok as much as it is ok to eat meat if you feel that it is ok to do so. These were two divisive issues of the day.

The important thing was not to make judgments about the other person's salvation based on eating or not.

For Paul it was all about motive. He told the Galations, if they were circumcised (to ensure their salvation) they would in fact be lost. Not that circumcision was wrong. Thinking that circumcision would seal one's salvation was wrong so for them to be or not to be cirucmcised was a salvation issue.
---Bruce5656 on 10/29/10


It is important to maintain the purity of the Bible by using the most current accurate translation possible, correct Biblical miss interpretation on the spot. Identify Biblical heresy and heretical groups and ensure the are publicly identified for what the are. Heresy can not be condoned, tolerated, or ignored for crimes of omission are just as grave as crimes of commission. For God will measure each of us of us for what we have done as well as what we should have done in his name for we are his adopted children. For He selected the elect billion of years ago before creation and gave us his irresistible grace and Christ paid the atonement for our sins so we could me member of the family of God blemish free. For this we owe him our loyalty.
---Blogger9211 on 10/29/10


human beings are really good at justifying in their own minds all sorts of beliefs.free will enables us all to fool ourselves,and be fooled when we allow our flesh to rule our choices.Bottom line is our God is truth,and the truth is what it is whether we choose to believe it or not.But as promised by scripture one day we all will be judged for those choices.Remember living the truth is impossible without jesus.
---tom2 on 10/30/10


//I believe Mark and Christan are saved, though they may not believe I am.//-- LindaS

Agreed

//The reason I was so strongly involved in the freewill/predestination blog was not to change the mind of the saved but to ensure that the invitation to relationship with God was extended to those who come searching. Paulwithstood Peter to his face to ensure the tender conscoence of the Gentiles was not defiled by Judaism.//--- Linda

Perfectly worded Linda. God bless you. This is exactly why I tend to follow MarKV around.

Noone should leave these blogs feeling Jesus Christ didnt die for their sins and doesnt want to save them. That is not the gospel. That is the work of satan trying to keep men from knowing their Savior.
---JackB on 10/30/10


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As God put it very plainly, to me, "Go With what you know". I have learned [about time], When you know that you are right, no need to argue. Only fools will argue, and since everything that I know I have receive from God. I rest my case. In the natural I am not a smart person, because, I had too much demonic influences. So, I depend on God for His wisdom, knowledge, words, strength, courage, and His love....As long as the living God is living in us, all that matters. Enjoy God, obey God, love God. Be happy, even in storms.
---catherine on 10/30/10


In some cases they can be. For the most part if a teaching being presented actually begins to create a false God in the mind of the hearer/reader then the idea must be refuted.

Remember Alan, a singular lie ABOUT what God said (his word) started the entirety of every sin that was ever perpetrated. One crooked interpretation of scripture can throw off the whole plumb line and make a mess of the most perfect work ever performed.

These topics here are sacred, and great care should be used in responding to anything here.
---Pharisee on 10/29/10


Alan, I totally understand what you are saying and the answer I believe depends on the motive of the heart. The reason I was so strongly involved in the freewill/predestination blog was not to change the mind of the saved but to ensure that the invitation to relationship with God was extended to those who come searching. Paulwithstood Peter to his face to ensure the tender conscoence of the Gentiles was not defiled by Judaism. What another believer believes regarding this doctrine doesn't matter to me. If they are assured of their salvation, then so be it. That is why I refrain from making "saved or not" judgments.
---Linda on 10/29/10


I believe Mark and Christan are saved, though they may not believe I am. That doesn't matter to me. His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God. I need no more assurance than that. Let US cast off every weight and the sin that does so easily beset US, and let US run with patience the race that is set before US, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of OUR faith. The race is run and won by ONE, and that one is the many members in the unity of the faith. When elitism begins to rear its ugly head and believers begin to judge another's salvation, we divide and fail to run as one because we are not looking at Him. This doesn't just hurt those judged, it hurts the ones judging as well.
---LindaS on 10/29/10


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Titus 3:9
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless."

I believe that their are many things that GOD leaves to our own interpretations, schedules, etc. I don't believe that GOD does this to cause quarreling or arguments. Instead, I believe that it is to make us "wait" on HIM, "learn" more about HIM, "watch" for what HE reveals to us when the "time is right", etc.

An argument that I hear a lot about is the EXACT TIME, AND DATE, THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL RETURN TO EARTH. Only GOD knows the answer.

I don't think that that is worth arguing about like little kids.
---Augie on 10/29/10


-- Alan of UK :

Brother, The only thing important to us inheriting Salvation is the Promise of the Lord's Seal of the Holy Spirit... and receiving it doesn't require the full Understanding of such issues !!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 10/29/10


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