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Israel Replacement Theology

Is reestablishment of the Jewish state of Israel a serious blow to replacement theology. (The church has replaced Israel)?

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 ---mima on 11/6/10
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Replacement theory does not mean Jews cannot become Christians. So they can come in and be part of Isreal again any time. In fact many Jews are becomeing Christian and are no longer blind. The seventy weeks of Daniel are over. JESUS told the Jewish leaders their house would be taken from them and given to another. This was taught in the church for centuries until Dispensationalism came up with a new idea.
---Samuel on 1/4/11


read about current events in Israel especially what was released last week Thursday.
---aka on 1/2/11


The Church can't be spiritual Israel, because God has a prophesied program for them to be accomplished in the ages to come. It's a visible, physical, earthly, Davidic kingdom with Christ sitting on his throne in Jerusalem.

The boC is now God's agency today preaching salvation by grace through faith based on the finished cross work of Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. At the end of this age the Two separate programs, two separate messages.

Our apostle is Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, writing in the dispensation of the grace of God. He is our pattern. If we follow him as we have been directed. All confusion disappears when we follow God's man and God's message in God's time.

---michael_e on 1/1/11


romans 11 vs 25...plainly states that blindness is upon Israel untill the fullness of the gentiles comes in..
---richard on 12/31/10

What is unique about the scripture above can be seen on this blog site. When the fullness of the (nations/Ethnos) of divorced Nth house of Israel is finally in.....then. Heb 8:8 shows the two participants.....as bride. 10 Virgins,10 coins, ten,ten,ten etc.
You nailed it Richard. Blind lead the blind. Trusting no one even or more especially the prophets they fall in a ditch and follow it to the end.
---Trav on 1/1/11


romans 11 vs 25...plainly states that blindness is upon Israel untill the fullness of the gentiles comes in..some bloggers on this site love to quote scripture to the effect that Israel has been totally rejected but the weight of scripture is not on their side and they have no buisiness to teach otherwise..you oppose yourself in doing so!
---richard on 12/31/10




Acts 9:18b ...he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
1Cor 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.
1Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church...then gifts of healings... diversities of tongues.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others, but let us watch and be sober.
---micha9344 on 12/31/10


The church the BoC has not replaced Israel


The body of Christ does not

keep the law of Moses
talk in unknown tongues
sell all they have
circumcise
heal the sick
raise the dead
look for signs
get physical curses for doing evil
get physical blessings for doing good
collect the tithe
water baptize
look for new Jerusalem
work for salvation
endure to the end
go into the tribulation
cast out demons
---michael_e on 12/30/10


I agree with what Francis quote on 11/8/10 he said,

"Not at all. the state of Israel is PHYSICAL, but the Israel of God( THE CHURCH) is SPIRITUAL"
The Israel of God unto salvation is the Spiritual Israel. All Israel will be saved, all Spiritual Israel, for Paul said,
"And they (individual Jewish people) also, "if" they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in" Romans 11:23. The Israel of the flesh mentioned in (1 Cor. 10:18) will not be saved. There is only one way into heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. Believing in the Coming Christ, (O.T.) and the Christ that came and died for our sins, (N.T.) For we are saved by grace through faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/29/10


No. The establisment of Israel as a secular nation has nothing to do with the doctrine of Scripture that the church is Israel.
---Samuel on 12/29/10


Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they(the circumcision v.2)held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles(the uncircumcised v.3) granted repentance unto life.
Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, what was I, that I could withstand God?
---micha9344 on 12/28/10




Yes Cluny that's what Jesus said and that is what Jesus did about 1930 years ago. The kingdom of God has been taken from the Jewish people. ---mima on 12/27/10

You've got the zeal but not the knowledge aunt mima.
Judah 1/12th of the whole house (his own)did lose position. Heb 8:8...would give you a foundation rock to start your gospel house on,invite your husband.
The Nth House of Israel divorced,scattered...is in that verse and Jer 31:31 and others.
This is the recipient, made possible by Judah. The Love of GOD for this wife is noted in Hosea and all the other prophets. Now R ya against the prophets of GOD? How about the Apostles? Follow their direction do ya? Ok...lets see.
---Trav on 12/28/10


reestablishment of Israel? by God or the UN?

the new creature in Christ replaces the Gentile and Jew.
---aka on 12/27/10


Yes Cluny that's what Jesus said and that is what Jesus did about 1930 years ago. The kingdom of God has been taken from the Jewish people. In the case of the Jews that kingdom will be restored to them during the millennial kingdom. Any religious organization that does not spread the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will lose the kingdom. I believe the spreading of the gospels should take place in the form of revivals and sermons and alter calls. I would ask you what is the outreach with the Gospel of the organization you are a monk of?
---mima on 12/27/10


Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
---micha9344 on 12/27/10

Matthew 25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Now the question is...you've taken away from one family member....will next in line family inherit? What if there are 10? Nth House Israel=10. See it? Or would your pater just throw your inheritance to the wind? Because your brother err'ed.
---Trav on 12/27/10


In the dispensation of the grace of God, we aren't spiritual or replacement Israel.
The boC is a distinct agency which God is making his will known today.

several contrasting points between Israel and the boC.

Israel had an earthly hope the BOC has a heavenly hope
Dan 2:44 Acts 1:6 Isa 9:7 Acts 2:30
Israel was looking for a physical, earthly, Davidic kingdom,Christ sitting on the throne in Jerusalem!

The BOC has a heavenly hope
2 Cor 5:1 Eph 1:3 Eph 2:6 Phil 3:20 Col 1:5 1 Th 1:10

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven (the boC), and which are on earth (nation of Israel) , even in him:
---michael_e on 12/27/10


"He came to his own, and his own received him not, but have done to him whatsoever they lusted, and have violated and by wicked hands have crucified and slain the Lord of glory. They have said among themselves, This is the heir, Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours. And they seized him, and cast out of the vineyard, and slew. When the Lord comes, what will he do to these? These sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness: there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For whosoever will reject me in front of men will be rejected in front of the angels of God. And the kingdom of God will be taken from the sons of the kingdom, and given to others bringing forward the fruits thereof." Read- Gal.3:26-29.
---Eloy on 12/27/10


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Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
---micha9344 on 12/27/10


mima, didn't Jesus say to the Jews of His earthly sojourn, "The Kingdom of God is taken from you and given to a people who will bring forth its fruits"?
---Cluny on 12/26/10


According to Galatians 3:28-29...
it means that believers who truly believe IN CHRIST whether a Iew (Jew), Grecian (Gentile), European, North American, Asian ARE Abraham's seed.
Rom. 4:16, .... Abraham, who is the father of vs all,
---Kev on 12/19/10

Sounds nice...but. Doesn't precept with the next chapter....or prophets.
Phrases "under the law", Redeem them "under the law".
Galatians 4
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To REDEEM them that Were Under the Law, that we Might Receive the adoption of sons.

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
---Trav on 12/21/10


According to Galatians 3:28-29...

it means that believers who truly believe IN CHRIST whether a Iew (Jew), Grecian (Gentile), European, North American, Asian ARE Abraham's seed.


Allow me to clarify myself more clearly. When I wrote "Grecian (Gentile)" I meant many nations including China, Africa, Russia, Australia, and etc. The Church is universal and Apostolike.

Rom. 4:16, Therefore it is by faith, that it might come by grace, and the promes might be sure to all the seed, not to that onely which is of the Lawe: but also to that which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of vs all,
.
Iohn Caluin and Theodore Beza wrote very positively of Israel concerning Romaynes chapter 11.
---Kev on 12/19/10


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\\ The Thirteenth Tribe, is only speculation. It is not credible. But the anti-semites love it.\\

Arthur Koestler was himself Jewish.

What he says in it is collaborated in other places.

He merely gives documentation for conclusions I had reached myself--and NOT from reading anti-semitic literature, either.
---Cluny on 12/19/10


Galatians 4
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To REDEEM them that Were Under the Law, that we Might Receive the adoption of sons.

6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
---Trav on 12/15/10


Galatians 3:28-29:

28 There is neither Iewe nor Grecian: there is neither bonde nor free: there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Iesus.

29 And if ye be Christs, then are ye Abrahams seede, and heires by promise.


According to Galatians 3:28-29...

it means that believers who truly believe IN CHRIST whether a Iew (Jew), Grecian (Gentile), European, North American, Asian ARE Abraham's seed.
---Kev on 12/14/10


Trav, you're entertaining, I'll give you that!
---Juanito on 11/11/10

Glad your confused,everything is funny to the confused. Even American indians treated confusion with speciality. People of opinion and no proof/witnesses scripturally have a special shelf in my entertaining.
I can tell your gonna be special.
Psalm 35:26
Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonour that magnify themselves against me.
Jeremiah 7:19
Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
---Trav on 11/13/10


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Trav, you're entertaining, I'll give you that!
---Juanito on 11/11/10


Arthur Koestler was a novelist, not a historian. His book, The Thirteenth Tribe, is only speculation. It is not credible. But the anti-semites love it.
---Juanito on 11/10/10

Not credible? And you proved so well. Don't appear to have enough title to critique history yourself. Which are you...Historian or professional critic.
Oh, just byopinon-ist only.

Anti-Semite? Your just a little uniformed, juan. My family's last name was Israel....
Perhaps you're a little to lazy to research past a "novel". But, then I haven't give you time to make that a conclusion yet, have eye.
---Trav on 11/11/10


Well, at least we now know what Trav's bible is.
---micha9344 on 11/10/10


Arthur Koestler was a novelist, not a historian. His book, The Thirteenth Tribe, is only speculation. It is not credible. But the anti-semites love it.
---Juanito on 11/10/10


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\Hitler was Catholic.
---1st_cliff on 11/6/10\\

Hitler was RAISED Roman Catholic, but clearly did not PRACTICE it.

For the story of this struggle from the Palestinian Christian side, read BLOOD BROTHERS and WE BELONG TO THE LAND by Elias Chacour.
---Cluny on 11/6/10

Well by the same token you should read the Best Seller "Thirteeth Tribe". Everybody might understand a little better who they honor and worship here. Just because someone says they are Joo's does not make them Judahites. The logic of that is embarrassing when admitted to oneself. Scripture even notes there will be imposters/jew's in that language and context.
---Trav on 11/10/10


True Israel are the "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:" 1Pet.1:2 And is addressed to a multitude of "Nations" verse 1.
"They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: [Jew, Israelite or otherwise] but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Rom 9:8
The Israel of God are those "who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham,..[and] Jerusalem which is above, is free, [and] is the mother of us all."
There is a natural Israel, which was a type, and there is the Spiritual Isreal that that type was meant to foreshadow.
---joseph on 11/9/10


God's chosen people are the obedient who serve him, and not any Jew or any NonJew whom rejects him. The Lord God says to the Jew and to the NonJew, both to whom reject him: "For whosoever will reject me in front of men will be rejected in front of the angels of God. For these sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness: there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. And the kingdom of God will be taken from the sons of the kingdom, and given to others bringing forward the fruits thereof."
---Eloy on 11/8/10


The Jewsih people will always and forever be the chosen people of God.

Look throughout the bible and see for yourself that there were times when the Jewish people obeyed God and they were rewarded by God. At other times they turned their backs against God and were punished.

Today, they have again turned their backs against God by not believing in Jesus, but they still believe in God and God will continue to protect them becasue they are still his chosen people.
---Steveng on 11/8/10


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Is reestablishment of the Jewish state of Israel a serious blow to replacement theology. (The church has replaced Israel)?

Not at all. the state of Israel is PHYSICAL, but the Israel of God( THE CHURCH) is SPIRITUAL
---francis on 11/8/10


there is no such thing as a "serious blow" to replacement Theology...replacement Theology is a false doctrine and if you believe it then you are decieved,thats all there is to it(Jesus is the Messiah who the Jews will one day recieve).
---richard on 11/8/10


No, because sinners establish a Jewish state of Israel does not mean that sinners were following anything that God says. God's true people are not located in one territorial state upon the earth, but we the saints from God are inhabitants throughout the earth. And when our God returns and parts the eastern sky and sounds his trumpet, no matter where the Christian is residing we will be elevated up from off this world to meet our Lord in the sky.
---Eloy on 11/8/10


\\He leaned heavily on Martin Luther's anti-Semitic writings!\\

Ummmmmm.....why would a Catholic have leaned on the principal reformer's writings?

Or are you trying to play guilt by association?

In any case, the Vatican's diplomatic policy has always been based on what IS, rather than what things SHOULD be.

And, out of curiousity, have you or anyone here actually read the concordat in question?
---Cluny on 11/7/10


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Cluny, The pics I've seen (Google) of Hitler praying in public (in uniform) hanging out with Cardinals signing a "concordat" with the Pope etc. shows religion played a part in his strategy.
He leaned heavily on Martin Luther's anti-Semitic writings!
---1st_cliff on 11/7/10


\\\\Hitler was Catholic.
---1st_cliff on 11/6/10\\\\

David Berkowitz, aka Son of Sam, the serial killer, was a born-again Christian, too, which status he resumed in prison.
---Cluny on 11/6/10


\\Hitler was Catholic.
---1st_cliff on 11/6/10\\

Hitler was RAISED Roman Catholic, but clearly did not PRACTICE it.

For the story of this struggle from the Palestinian Christian side, read BLOOD BROTHERS and WE BELONG TO THE LAND by Elias Chacour.
---Cluny on 11/6/10


It's fulfilled prophecy that's for sure. Interesting you bring this up, I've been researching why the Palestinians hate Israel so much recently and I've seen that in our news media we get a half story. What I've learned literally made me sick.

Israel behaves toward the gentiles around them as if they are still met with the mandate to clear the land of Giants when entering the promise land...this is the result of their unbelief in Christ, but this must be so for all that is prophesied to come to pass. If you simply consider the seven day war you can see that God's hand is still on this nation, many miracles are still to come. Israel has a specific purpose in the time of the end, and will come to Christ in it's time.
---Pharisee on 11/6/10


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No, because the present political state of Israel is not the true Israel of God.

Being false Israel (or anti-Israel, if you like), what do you think this state will produce?
---Cluny on 11/6/10


Yes, the reestablishment of Israel is a blow to replacement theology. Replacement Theology is NOT lined up with the Bible and is AGAINST God in EVERY way. Replacement Theology is of the devil and is used to decieve many - even the very elect like the Bible says. The Jews will ALWAYS be God's people according to the Bible - anything else is heresy and is AGAINST the Bible. Replacement Theology was established by Constantine who was anti-semetic, and is where we get alot of the church traditions today - it is NOT Biblical.
---Leslie on 11/6/10


In Isaiah 10:20-21, we have > "the remnant of Israel" "Will never again depend on him who defeated them, But will depend on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth," > so, I consider the Israelites of the true return will return "in truth" of honoring Jesus as being their Messiah, and they will depend on Jesus. But the present return is not obedient to the Jews' Messiah, and so it is a false return, I'd say . . . if God really means there will be an *obedient* geographic return of His Israelites to Palestine.

Also, Isaiah 19:19-25, to me, shows that ***not only Israel** will return to the LORD.

("Telescopic" prophecy can mean one thing in history and also have God's spiritual meaning.)
---Bill on 11/6/10


Mima, The Jewish state of Israel is a political entity and does not have any more advantage than any other political state.
They simply "tolerate" Christians for the sake of tourism but do not embrace Christianity anymore than Islam!
Their slogan is "Never again"...Hitler was Catholic.
---1st_cliff on 11/6/10


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