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Mormon Spiritual Children

A Mormon friend of mine says that when we acquire our glorified resurrected bodies that we will have sexual intercouse in the life to come. They claim we will beget spirit children. Is there any support in the bible for this?

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//Since Smith's translation ability was flawed if not fraudulent with the Book of Abraham what about the BOM? Same language. Same translator.

Smith created the Book of Mormons from a novel by one Solomon Spalding.

The book by Cowdrey, Davis & Scales "Who really wrote the Book of Mormons" is very convincing about where Smith got his material.

In any case, the Book of Mormons does not teach many of the things the Mormons hold to be doctrine.
---leej on 11/19/10


leej:

Since the Book of Mormon (that Joseph Smith himself translated, and considers the pure unadulterated Word of God) considers polygamy to be sin, it was total hipocrisy for him himself to then turn around and permit it, and for any other Mormons (who also consider the Book of Mormon to be th pure unadulterated word of God) to follow him into it.


HappyLDS:

Marriage does NOT go on for eternity. Even if there WERE a period of spiritual marriage before the resurrection (where there is no longer any marriage), it could not be eternal, because if it were, resurrection would never happen.
---StrongAxe on 11/19/10


"Joseph Smith's translations...scrutiny." HappyLDS

They dare not.

The only real demonstration of J. Smith's translation ability (since the plates are gone) would be the Mormon 'Book of Abraham'.

Translated from papyri written in what he called 'Reformed Egyptian" (same as BOM) Smith claimed this told the (additional) story of Abraham.

But when Egyptologists were finally able to decipher hieroglyphics they dismissed Smith's claims as ridiculous. The papyri actually are Egyptian afterlife documents and they contain no information about Abraham at all.

Since Smith's translation ability was flawed if not fraudulent with the Book of Abraham what about the BOM? Same language. Same translator.
---scott on 11/19/10


\\It is during that time that we will be permitted to find our eternal companions and marry if we did not have the opportunity during our time on earth. \\

What part of "neither marry nor are given in marriage" does the Mormonoid church not understand?

This is not to say that our present earthly relationships, including marriage, do not find their true expression and fulfilling in the World to Come.

But the marital act will not exist, contrary to the goofy notions of such polytheistic fertility cults as yours.
---Cluny on 11/19/10


"Jesus plainly said there will NOT be marriage in the next life."

No, StongAxe, he did not. He said "for in the resurrection..." When we die, our bodies are separated from our spirits. Mormons believe that our spirits continue to progress in "paradise" or the spirit world. We will remain there until the resurrection. It is during that time that we will be permitted to find our eternal companions and marry if we did not have the opportunity during our time on earth. Seriously, what is the point of getting married if marriage doesn't last in eternity? Why would marriage be considered so important? Why would God sanction something that has no eternsl significance?

cont.
---HappyLDS on 11/18/10




StrongAxle - I can only agree with you but like you use the Bible as the standard, however, even the Book of Mormons condemns polygamy. Jacob 1:15, 2:23-24,27,31 Mosiah 11:2,4, Ether 10:5,7.

Howbeit, like I told our Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox friends, they also have arguments around any apparent denial of their doctrine.

MK 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Being liken to angels is unliken to human beings with human functions.
---leej on 11/18/10


leej:

It is easy to determine whether or not the early translators corrupted or removed parts of the Bible - just compare the translations with manuscripts in the original languages. It is easy to see they are fairly close to the original and they do not change any major doctrines in the originals. (Mormons do not subject Joseph Smith's translations to the same scrutiny, however).

Jesus plainly said there will NOT be marriage in the next life.
Paul plainly said that anyone who preached a different gospel than he did was to be condemned (Galatians 1:8-9).
God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).

So, any prophet who contradicts what Jesus plainly said is a false prophet and should not be followed.
---StrongAxe on 11/18/10


//One needs to realize that the prophet Joseph Smith was the voice of God //---Yehovah's Voices-speaks ONE WORD-defined by Himself-anything else-instead-is Anti-
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.--Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be ONE LORD, and His Name ONE.Jn 1:1WORD BECAME FLESH
---char on 11/18/10


sophia, ginger, strongaxe

One needs to realize that the prophet Joseph Smith was the voice of God to those of the Mormon church. And that the declaration by him that the Bible was not completed or parts removed from it by the early translators, that the church needed to be restored.

In which case, the infallible word is that there will be physical sexual intercourse in the heavens with spirit children being born.

Our standard, on the other hand, is limited by our interpretation of the Bible.
---leej on 11/18/10


Amen micha! You beat me to it.
We will become just as the angels in heaven are. Neither male or female.

Sophia, if there is no male or female in heaven then how in heaven's name do you think people will get marred and have spiritual children?

It won't happen because there will be no male or female. That is the word of Jesus and his word is all that matters.
---ginger on 11/16/10




sophia:

The Pharisees were asking that same precise question as you are. They assumed that marriage persists in the afterlife, and as such, it produced a dilemma. Jesus answered this question and solved the dilemma by saying that there is no marriage in the afterlife at all, so there is no dilemma. He did not specifically mention "remaining married", but if that was not implied by what he said, his whole statement would have been pointless, since it would not have addressed their question.
---StrongAxe on 11/16/10


sophia //.... but that one scriptural answer is silent about whether marriages that occurred before going to heaven would be considered valid in heaven.

Very true, and they are saying that you will have no breeding rights to beget spirit children in heaven if you do not have your marriage(s) sealed in a Mormon temple.

Their view of sexual intercourse in the eternal state is much liken to that of the Islamic religion where there is an endless supply of virgins.


---leej on 11/16/10


Cluny //But don't forget--Jesus was saying this in reply to the question about the woman who was married to seven brothers.

Therefore, it follows that she would not be married to ANY of them, nor they to her, in the next world.
---------
You forget that the Mormons teaches that you will be married in heaven ONLY and ONLY IF you have your earthly marriage SEALED in one of the Mormon temples.

Silly and can even be laughable!!!!!

They have a way around every argument we can broach - same as those Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox dudes.
---leej on 11/16/10


\\The scripture that says that they neither "marry nor are given in marriage" excludes one major category "remain married". In biblical times, men "married" women and women were "given in marriage" to men. So all that is being said in that scripture is that in heaven marriage ceremonies do not occur. It neither says that marriage continues or is non-existent.\\

But don't forget--Jesus was saying this in reply to the question about the woman who was married to seven brothers.

Therefore, it follows that she would not be married to ANY of them, nor they to her, in the next world.

Try again.
---Cluny on 11/16/10


That is riiculous sophia.
in context:
Matthew 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
So Jesus had an answer for them as well as you:
Matthew 22:29-30 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
The context here is about marriages on Earth continuing in Heaven. So again:
Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
---micha9344 on 11/16/10


---sophia on 11/15/10 Interesting point of view
---francis on 11/16/10


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The scripture that says that they neither "marry nor are given in marriage" excludes one major category "remain married". In biblical times, men "married" women and women were "given in marriage" to men. So all that is being said in that scripture is that in heaven marriage ceremonies do not occur. It neither says that marriage continues or is non-existent. Mormons may be wrong about their view of marriage, but that one scriptural answer is silent about whether marriages that occurred before going to heaven would be considered valid in heaven.
---sophia on 11/15/10


//I am not sure how you feel about JW, but every denomination has some truth.

In fact, the Book of Mormons contains many linguistic similarities to the King James Bible. In some cases, entire passages of scripture are duplicated in the Book of Mormon. Sometimes the source is acknowledged, as in the book of 2 Nephi, where 18 chapters of Isaiah are quoted.

There exist 478 verses in the Book of Mormon which are quoted in some form or other from the book of Isaiah. Of these verses, one Mormon scholar notes that 201 of them match the King James version of the quote and another 207 show variations.

In addition, 58 quotes from Isaiah found in the Book of Mormon are paraphrased versions of those found in the King James Bible.
---leej on 11/15/10


ashleyr:

You said: For there are worlds celestial, terrestial, and telestial and they vary in glory, as the sun, moon, and stars. Marriage only applies to the Celestial kingdom.

The Bible never mentions anything remotely resembling the "telestial kingdom", and the above directly contradicts what Jesus said. We DO have marriage aplenty in this, terrestrial world, but not in the world to come:

Luke 20:34-36: (similarly, Matthew 22:30)
"34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage
"35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage"
---StrongAxe on 11/15/10


John 10:34 KJV Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Barnes Notes: Ye are god. This was said of magistrates on account of the dignity and honour of their office, and it shows that the word translated "god" in that place might be applied to man. Such a use of the word is, however, rare. See instances in #Ex 7:1 4:16.

I reckon in order to become a god like God, one needs to acquire the full attributes of God.

They would include being omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscience, self-sufficient, self-existing, holy, infinite, and immutable.

As Mormons believe achieving godhood is a progressive process of changing, the immutability factor may be a problem.
---leej on 11/15/10


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---micha9344 Good Job with matthews henry, notice he refered to the OT LAW and LAW OF MOSES and never said that obedienc to tenc ommandments leads to death, now see
Deuteronomy 4:10-15
how does verses 12, and 13 differ from 14? verses.
how do that p[assage in deuteronomy line match up with exodus 20 verse1m and exodus 20 verses 18-22 and exodus 24:12, 15,16,17
exodus 31:18

---KarenD I am not sure how you feel about JW, but every denomnination has some truth. See Revelation 22:2, Isaiah 66:23 what do you see hear that is common to what wa sin Eden?
---francis on 11/15/10


Everyone assumes mortal life is heavenly life and you would be wrong. For there are worlds celestial, terrestial, and telestial and they vary in glory, as the sun, moon, and stars. Marriage only applies to the Celestial kingdom. In Mathew: Jesus said: "have I not told you that you are Gods" He also said the road is narrow, so is the gate and few there shall be that find it, or the Celestial kingdom. That calls for complete obedience to God's laws, not man's laws. People can't profess Jesus one day and live in evil the other six days. Only the elect become Gods, not those that cry Lord, Lord and do not what he says. Heavenly Father can create anything he wants, including children, since he created the Earth and everything in it.
---ashleyr on 11/14/10


//See matthew henry's commentary. matthew henry is not a Seventh day adventist, so you can take his word for it.

I have Matthew Henry's commentary as well as several others. It is easy to see that it runs totally contrary to what you apparently believe.

"Here the apostle makes a comparison between the Old Testament and the New, the law of Moses and the gospel of Jesus Christ, and values himself and his fellow-labourers by this, that they were able ministers of the New Testament, that God had made them so, #2Co 3:6. This he does in answer to the accusations of false teachers, who magnify greatly the law of Moses."

And the 10 commandments are part of the law of Moses by dictionary definition.
---leej on 11/12/10


Matthew Henry exerps from 2Cor 3 Commentary:
'He shows the difference between the Old Testament and the New, and the excellency of the gospel above the law.'
'so there was no glory in the Old Testament, in comparison with that of the New.'
'Not only did the glory of Moses' face go away, but the glory of Moses' law is done away also, yea, the law of Moses itself is now abolished.'
'Here the apostle makes a comparison between the Old Testament and the New, the law of Moses and the gospel of Jesus Christ'
'Though the Israelites could not look stedfastly to the end of what was commanded, but is now abolished, yet we may.'
The commentary on Gal 3 is quite revealing as well.
---micha9344 on 11/12/10


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Wow i was just going to post asking about this junk, some lady came into my work place the other day, she was very nice , we began talking about the Lord and i told her i had lost my daughter at the age of 23 and she said that she would have babies in heaven, i think i went into a shock mode. I ask her what church she went to and she would not tell me, and now i know, something about her just didnt sit right with me,i began asking her questions i told her i was testing her spirit , i don't think she knew what that meant. Needless to say i got my answer here.Do you know she went as far as to say she spoke in tongues as well, ive never known of Mormons speaking in a heavenly language.
---Lea on 11/12/10


//See matthew henry's commentary.//

We have the same Spirit he does. No need to take Matthew's word for it. He might be wrong.

Following men and not God = bad
---JackB on 11/13/10


francis....Your posts border on JW teachings. With what denomination are you affiliated?
---KarenD on 11/13/10


I can see that since you absolutely refused to address the issue as to why the scripture (2 Cor. 3:7,9)
---leej on 11/12/10

See matthew henry's commentary. matthew henry is not a Seventh day adventist, so you can take his word for it.
---francis on 11/12/10


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francis //---leej you have to much hate for the law of God,

Quite the contrary, it is you that has a deep hatred for the law since from the law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and that knowledge reveals the ugliness of your own sinfulness.

I can see that since you absolutely refused to address the issue as to why the scripture (2 Cor. 3:7,9) referred to the 10 commandments as the ministry of death & condemnation. You chose to address other issues instead to avoid answering the blog question since it would reveal too much about your own fleshly carnal nature.
---leej on 11/12/10


I did understand your posts.
---KarenD
Well you are reading too much into them.
What the question is generally asking is will there be children born in the new earth.
What I am saying is that In the new earth there is a restoration of what was in Eden. One example of the restoration of eden is " the tree of life. Also in Eden Adam was without sin an in the image of God and was commanded to have children.

Strongaxe made a very good point on stating that the bible says in the resurrection they are not given into marriage.
My point is that "in the resurrection" may not be the same as the new earth. There is 1000 years between the two, and if God so desires there may be children being born in the new earth.
---francis on 11/12/10


francis - as a true slave child of your mother Hagar from Mt. Sinai where the 10 commandments was given to Moses, you can only cast asperions (slanderious remarks) against those who truly are children of the promise given to Abraham.

Galatians 4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.

It is you that truly hates the law because it is revealing to you your ugly sinfulness.

But you can have a Savior in Jesus.

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
---leej on 11/12/10


francis//leej what exactly is your question?

Is there any support in the Bible for the Mormon belief that there will be sexual intercouse in the life to come resulting in the birth of spirit children?

Instead of pooping your anti-grace works theology, why do you not simply stick to the topic given on this tread?


---leej on 11/12/10


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---leej you have to much hate for the law of God,



Psalms 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.

Psalms 119:35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments, for therein do I delight.

Psalms 119:47 And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

Psalms 119:70 Their heart is as fat as grease, [but] I delight in thy law.

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable, and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
---francis on 11/11/10


Malachi 4 speaks of the restoration of the nation of Israel and the destruction of her enemies.

The expression "new heavens and a new earth" in Isaiah 66:17-25 while it would seem to suggest the eternal state (bec of Rev. 21:1), the mention of people dying, even at an advanced age, as well as the presence of the sinner (Isa. 65:20) seem to suggest this is NOT the eternal state but an intermediate "millenium" state in which Christ rules.

While it is possible that the Jewish religion with its tenets (the Sabbath) will be restored, it is doubtful such would be mandated to Gentile nations.
---leej on 11/11/10


leej what exactly is your question?
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings, and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.
---francis on 11/11/10


francis. What about those wicked carcases in the new heaven?

A more exacting and reasonable translation of Isaiah 66:23 is from the New Living Translation as follows -

"All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month."

(66:24) And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Francis will have no answer on this since Adventism has yet to develop any sort of explanation choosing instead to simply ignore anything that may conflict with what they wish to believe.
---leej on 11/11/10


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The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations (Rev. 22:1-22), while resurrected bodies are immortal. They would not need healing.
---StrongAxe on 11/11/10

Not the healing of the human body, but the healing of the nations. this is the opposite of ewhat happened at SHINAR the tower of babel where the nations were divided, under the leaves of the tree they are united.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
---francis on 11/11/10


Bill - "Jesus answered 'The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage,'" Lk. 20:35f

Mormons will fully agree those in heaven will neither marry nor are given in marriage but they believe if you have your present marriage (s) sealed in their temple ritual, then that person (s)will continue to be your sexual partner in their celestial heaven.

And the spirit children by born physical unions will be assigned to live on one of the planets as did Adam and Eve.

They believe in a pre-existence that the spirit children await a body created by physical union of those living on an earth.
---leej on 11/11/10


//There is no mention the new earth will be populated by dead and resurrected people from the old one.

The theory is those who survive the Great Tribulation will populate the new earth. Most will live longer, have children, and the nature of animals will be changed. All this will end after the Millenium when Satan is released from the bottomless pit.

Mormonism teaches that a person is destined for one of 6 places after death = Outer darkness (for Satan and his demons), the Telestial kingdom where the wicked will spend eternity, the Terrestrial kingdom (for lukewarm Mormons), or one of 3 separate levels in the Celestial heaven.

The upper level of the Celestial heaven is where the faithful Mormon may achieve godhood.
---leej on 11/11/10


Strong Axe, I think you miss one important aspect of this whole matter:

Hypothetical= Two landlords each with an apartment complex, both with "Tenants from hell".
LL#1-Burns his building down and builds a new one
LL#2- Evicts the tenants and refurbishes his building.
Both end up with "new" premises
LL#2 did not change the architecture or design. Cost was a fraction of LL#1

Which LL was most practical and reasonable??
---1st_cliff on 11/11/10


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francis and 1st_cliff:

The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations (Rev. 22:1-22), while resurrected bodies are immortal. They would not need healing.


francis:

You said: and we are also told that every new moon all of Gods people will gather in the new jerusalem. So no need to ship fruit.

Where did you see this? I couldn't find any mention of this in the Bible. Could you point out which book, chapter, and verse?

You said: why not the restoration of marriage in the new earth, just as marriage was in Eden before sin?

I didn't say that there was no marriage. Just that those who died and were subsequently resurrected did not marry (after all, Jesus explicitly said to).
---StrongAxe on 11/11/10


Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Now this is in the resurrection, there is 1000 years between the first resurection and the new earth. In the new earth we will be restore to " eden like" environment tree of life and all.

So what i am asking is why not marriage like it wa sin Eden?
---francis on 11/11/10


StrongAxe,
we aretalking about restoration.

In the bible God will restore all things, he will create a new heaven and a new earth. He will restore the tree of life also.

Now we are told that the tree of life gives one manner of fruit each new moon, and we are also told that every new moon all of Gods people will gather in the new jerusalem. So no need to ship fruit.

So what i am proposing is that with the restoration of the tree of life, and face to face communion with God, why not the restoration of marriage in the new earth, just as marriage was in Eden before sin?
---francis on 11/10/10


Isa 66:22-24 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
>Still taking vv. 22 & 23 out of context I see, francis. What about those wicked carcases in the new heaven?
---micha9344 on 11/10/10


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Strong Axe, I do not subscribe to "Mormon theology"
Actually you are closer to Mormon theology than I, IE- Book of Mormon Alma 42.9 "the soul can never die" (not stated in all of the bible)Ez.18.4!
Perhaps you can explain the transition (smooth continuation) from this earth to the new earth and man's continued ability to procreate? as opposed to every one going to heaven!( or hell as the fundamentalists believe)and the destruction of this planet!
---1st_cliff on 11/10/10


francis:

There is one single mention of the Tree of Life bearing fruit monthly (and it's bearing twelve different kinds of fruit at that). There is no mention there of people eating it, or who is eating it, or why, or how often. Inferring from this people need monthly doses is pure conjecture.

For all we know, they will have to box it and ship it to people all over the world, depending on how many people there are at that time, since the trees grow in only one place. If there are a thousand times as many people as there are fruits on the tree, each person would only get one every 80 years. (This is also a conjecture, but just as valid a one).
---StrongAxe on 11/10/10


francis...I did understand what you have been saying on all your posts. They are so confused that it makes me think you are involved in some kind of end-times cult. Which one is it?
---KarenD on 11/10/10


StrongAxe

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month:

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, shall l all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

So based on all scriptures, eating from the tree of life is not a one time thing, it must be done every month ( new moon)
So if adam was 2 months in the garden he ate two times ( at least)
---francis on 11/10/10


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In other word why not full restoration,tree of life and all?
---francis on 11/10/10

francis, the New Creation is not a restoration of the Old, but a totally NEW Heaven and earth. restoration meant to go back to it,s original state. If that happened, sin could still enter in. However in the NEW heaven and earth NO SIN can enter. no evil, etc.

Also those IN CHRIST, as Adam and Eve never were will be elevated ABOVE the angels. Adam and Eve and man of the dust was made below the angels.

Those in Christ or the New Creatures int eh New creation will be NEITHER male or Female...remember..therefore cannot procreate!!!
---kathr4453 on 11/10/10


francis:

You said: the bible does not say how long adam lived in eden, so we do not know for sure if he had a chance to eat from that tree

He had plenty of opportunity before the Fall, but he never availed himself of it. How do we know this? In Genesis 3:22-24, God drove Adam out of Eden, and barred the way with Cherubim and a flaming sword, to make sure that Adam would not eat from the Tree of Life and live forever. If he had already eaten from that tree, such precautions would have been pointless.
---StrongAxe on 11/10/10


Whether or not Adam could not die after he ate from the Tree of Life is irrelevant, since Adam never ate from that tree.
---StrongAxe on 11/10/10
the bible does not say how long adam lived in eden, so we do not know for sure if he had a chance to eat from that tree

here is how it is relevant. In the new earth, we will again have the tree of life, and many other things which God institued in eden, why not marriage and intercourse?

In other word why not full restoration,tree of life and all?
---francis on 11/10/10


1st_cliff:

Of course I don't mean a new Adam and Eve. New people are being born all the time NOW. This will continue in the future.

But for anyone who believes in Mormon theology, doesn't EACH new world have its own Adam and Eve, so even if I had meant what you thought I meant, that shouldn't seem all that bizarre.

Also, there is no mention of anyone in the resurrection ever falling a second time, regardless of free will.


francis:

Whether or not Adam could not die after he ate from the Tree of Life is irrelevant, since Adam never ate from that tree.
---StrongAxe on 11/10/10


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Strong Axe, **New people**?? What another Adam and Eve??? Now it gets a little bizarre!
Does the bible not mention "two" resurrections?? Why would that be necessary if it doesn't apply to all people??
---1st_cliff on 11/10/10


Strong Axe, One more thing to consider, man will ALWAYS have "free will" regardless of whether he obtains a heavenly or earthly resurrection.
This includes the option to sin if he so chooses with death the resulting consequence, Christ does not have to die again, the issue has been settled once and for all!
If we lose this option (free will) then we are no better than programmed robots.
Satan,his angels and Adam all had that "option" it's not about to change.
God does not want "forced" loyalty or love!
---1st_cliff on 11/10/10


NOWHERE does it say that Adam and Eve had spiritual bodies before the fall. Where did you get that idea, francis?
---Cluny on 11/9/10
From the BIBLE
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

Adam could not die as long as he ate from the tree oflife

Adam did not even know he was naked yet he had no clothes

---KarenD on 11/9/10
reread my post again. You did not get what i said
---francis on 11/9/10


francis and 1st_cliff:

There is no mention that the new earth will be populated by dead and resurrected people from the old one. These will be new people, just like us. It specifically mentions that people there will die, just not until they have fulfilled their years. There will be children (so, presumably marriage). Contrast this with the resurrection, in which there is no marriage, and there is no subsequent death:

Hebrews 9:27:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"
---StrongAxe on 11/9/10


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I like the post by STRONEAXE which says that IN THE RESURRECTION they are not given in marriage.

But in Eden, Adam and Eve were created in God's image ( perfect and without sin). The were naked and did not kno wit. ( it is possible that they were clothed in a form of light or does naked mean not inocent)

As long as they ate from the tree they lived forever. In that condition God commanded them to have intercourse

When God made adam God said it was not good for the man to be alone.

In the new earth, will it be good for a man to be alone?

Stroneaxe, i see and respect you text, but is " the resurrection" same as " the new earth?"
---francis on 11/9/10


Strong Axe, These scriptures do not identify which resurrection, as you know, the bible talks about two.
It would make sense that those of the 1st resurrection IE going to co-rule as Kings and Priests in heaven would fit the "no marriage" clause.
In Isa. 11.8 "an INFANT will play near the hole of a cobra"..etc. also 65.20 it speaks of the "new earth" "a child will not die young"
These are not heavenly images! Animals are an earthly creation, there's no animals in heaven!
---1st_cliff on 11/9/10


francis:

Matthew 22:30
"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Mark 12:25
"For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are in heaven."

Luke 20:35
"But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage"

I don't know how it can be any clearer than that.
---StrongAxe on 11/9/10


Strong Axe, God did not tell Adam to be fruitful multiply and "replace the dead"!
**fully functional and perfect bodies**?
By your reasoning women will not have breasts (no babies to feed)
Men and women will be the same gender (no procreation)
Without marriage every one will be a "loner"!
That's not the "world"(Jn.3.16) God loved so much that He gave His son to restore!
A world of "eunuchs" is not for me!
---1st_cliff on 11/9/10


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\\We can establish by the bible, that intercourse is permitted in a spiritual / glorified body. Will it happen in the earth made new?\\

No, you can't.

NOWHERE does it say that Adam and Eve had spiritual bodies before the fall. Where did you get that idea, francis?

Furthermore, Jesus said on this very subject that in the World to Come there is neither marriage nor being given in marriage.
---Cluny on 11/9/10


francis...You are so far out on your posts. Do you attend church at all? Mormons also believe that Jesus and Lucifer were spiritual brothers even though Lucifer was an angel and Jesus was not.
---KarenD on 11/9/10


Adan and eve both had spiritual bodies, and were commanded to have intercouse in their spiritual, glorified bodies.
There is no reason why this should not, or cannot resume in the restoration.( truely it is up to God).

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply,

We can establish by the bible, that intercourse is permitted in a spiritual / glorified body. Will it happen in the earth made new?

Possible even probable.
---francis on 11/9/10


1st_cliff:

The reason children are necessary is to replenish a population that is dying. If nobody dies, one doesn't need new children to keep replacing the dead.

The reason older adults are grumpy is that they are well past their prime, most of their faculties are failing, and their best years are behind them. In contrast, in the resurrection, everyone will have fully functional perfect bodies, with no reason to whine or regret, and their best years will be ahead of them.
---StrongAxe on 11/8/10


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Hi, Lee . . . In Luke 20:27-36, verses 34-35 say, "Jesus answered and said to them, 'The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage,'"

And we can consider that we the Church of Jesus are engaged to Jesus, Himself. Jesus is our Groom > in Revelation 19, we have, "'Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.'" (Revelation 19:7)

And where does Revelation 7:9-17 say that many Christians will come from? "out of the great tribulation" . . . not out of spirit marriage.
---Bill on 11/8/10


Pharisee, I'm not really defending Mormon teachings (quite different)
Look at fundamentalist's belief,
Resurrected ones are sexless adult loners, androids, a world with no children.
No pretty women or handsome men (this was to attract the sexes for procreation)
Since no copulation takes place this is no longer necessary!
My children and grand kids are a joy to me, a world of grumpy adults only??? you can have it!
---1st_cliff on 11/8/10


The issue is certainly bigger Cliff, and while you're protest makes good sense of the word it doesn't address the fact that we shall be God, as God was once a man of flesh and bones according to the same denominational teachings. That's the rest of the story, and it's most damning.

You can defend Mormon teachings if you like but what's the point, and to what end will you go?
---Pharisee on 11/7/10


MARK 12:25 For when they shall rise from the Dead,they neither marry, nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven,

ISAIAH 65:17 For I create new heaven and a new earth: and the former shall not come into mind,

1 CORINTHIANS 15,44 It is sown a natural body,It is raised a spiritual body.There is a natural body,and there is a spiritual body,
( On the last day believers are given a new body, what that is only God knows)
---RICHARD on 11/7/10


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Every one is so quick to cite Mat.22 and apply it to "all" resurrected ones.
Some resurrected ones will rule as kings and priests with Christ for a thousand years..this scripture applies to them.
What's the purpose in creating a "New earth" is it not to fulfill the mandate given to Adam "be fruitful and fill the earth"
At that time scripture says "The lion and lamb will feed together and a "Little child shall lead them"
Where did the "little child" come from????
---1st_cliff on 11/7/10


Jesus actually testifies to the opposite:

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

What's left to be said? Can we really hold Joseph Smith up as a Prophet when his words contradict that of the only perfect man to ever exist? We know Jesus' saying was perfect because he reported that he only spoke what was given him to say by the Father.

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
---Pharisee on 11/7/10


Matthew 22:30----For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. THE BIBLE



Is this another question posted by a Mormon to get their views on this site????
---KarenD on 11/7/10


No that isn't true. Read Mark 12:20-25 for a full understanding but this verse targets what you asked,Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead,they neither marry,nor are given in marriage,but are as the angels which are in heaven. The angels in heaven do not have children besides since no one marries getting together and having children would be violating God's Law against fornication. Another thing against begetting spirit children is the fact God is the only one who can create spirits,the spiritual realm belongs to him. That teaching is utter nonsense which doesn't line up with the Word of God.
---Darlene_1 on 11/7/10


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Does the Mormons really believe this? This false doctrine? If so, Your friend is a blasphemer....I serve a "Holy God"....You best to stay away from such blasphemers. You risk losing your own faith, Pray that you don't.
---catherine on 11/7/10


No. Mormonism is not Christianity (in fact, not one Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox agree with most of their fundamental beliefs). They used the Christian Bible (or at least some of it), but they also follow heretical doctrines, and as Cluny rightfully noted, they are a polytheistic fertility cult.

Mormonism have many very weird and oftentimes scary doctrines/practices. Anyone who is a Christian and have studied this religion will note that this is the weirdest cult in existence today.

I love them as human beings, but they can keep their polytheistic fertility religion.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/6/10


That's why Mormonism is NOT Christianity, but a polytheistic fertility cult.
---Cluny on 11/6/10


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