Sinners Get What They Want
Duanne is correct in saying:
"Christians must never claim to be sinners, thereby insult the work of Christ.
---duane on 5/10/11
We know your definition of sin is "missing the mark". This ambiguous definition is not supported in scripture but thats your choice. Importantly though you believe on Jesus and you do not seek justification by works of the law, so I see Christ in you.
But Duanne correctly made his claim based on scripture. Scripture clearly says we are righteous and not sinners thanks to Jesus. Your old man is dead and you are a new creation. There is no reason to be offended by what scripture says our standing is in Christ.
---Haz27 on 5/11/11|
Daune 2: I have discuss this truths with you before but with your insistance, you sin by telling me not to identify with Satan. And I believe the more you talk about your sinlessness the more you will sin by insulting others. So no, you are just like the rest of us who struggle with sin and where the Spirit continues to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. You can believe what you want, I sure don't mind that at all.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/11|
You are correct in saying I dont still need Christ, because I HAVE Christ in me.
I am not a sinner because I have been born anew, of which I have been freed from sin. I am chastened in the flesh, for the flesh is not perfect but my new birth/life/ identity is Christ in me. I am considered righteous and perfect before God BECAUSE I HAVE HIM and still not in NEED of HIM.
Salvation is Christ in you, sin is of the devil.
Mark, you have an identity problem. You have yet to believe that you are freed from sin through HIM.
You were a sinner and needed HIM. Now your a saint who HAS HIM.
---duane on 5/11/11|
And, it is the sin of unbelief... be convicted of (John16:9).
People are either righteous OR a sinner. They cant be both. 1Pet4:18
---Haz27 on 5/10/11
1) "They cant be both"
They are,why James say, "Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
and that is the problem. Matt.26:41 "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
2) Judgement for unbelief only?
2Cor.5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
---Nana on 5/11/11|
Duane, it is you who insults the works of Christ in your new life. You don't need Him anymore. You can now do without Him since you are perfect and without sin. You insult the Holy Spirit because you have no use for Him in your life to conform you to the image of Christ, you are that image now. You insult the Word of God by denying you are a sinner, because God tells us, if we say we have no sin, we are deceived and "the Truth is not in us" You say you are without sin. "But if you are without chastening, Of which all have become partakers,' then you are illegitmate and not sons"
You are either a sinner in great need of Christ or you are perfect in need of nothing.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/11|
Correction on my previous post. I meant to say the belief that 1John1:8 is referring to BELIEVERS would contradict 1John3:6-9 which says believers do not sin and anyone who does sin is of the devil.
Of course it would also contradict other scriptures too.
E.G: John 8:34 tells us that those who sin are servants of sin.
But we know that we WERE servants of sin but NOW we are servants of righteousness Rom6:17,18
As 1Pet4:18 shows, you are either righteous OR a sinner. You CANNOT be both.
---Haz27 on 5/10/11|
1John1:8, what sin is it talking about?
Is it transgression of the law (1John3:4)?
No, as we are set free from the law of sin and death (Rom8:2)
Or is it unbelief in Jesus (John16:9)?
Yes, as this scripture tells us that this is the sin the world will be convicted of.
Reading 1John1 from beginning note the words it uses. It declares eternal life to those in darkness (without Christ) so they also can have fellowship with the Father. Its an evangelical context.
The belief that it was written to unbelievers would mean it contradicts 1John3:6-9 that Christians do not sin and those who do are of the devil
---Haz27 on 5/10/11|
1 John 1:8-9
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Note his was written to BELIEVERS. But even as believers, even though we are a creations, we are still a work in progress. We are NOT 100% sinless yet. We are NOT immortal yet, even though Jesus freed us from the curse of death.
---StrongAxe on 5/10/11|
There is no doubt Christians slip up (which man's tradition erroneously calls sin)
The point I was making is Christians are a new creation and righteous in Christ. We are no longer sinners, as scriptures tell us.
We are set free from the law (Rom 8:2) hence here we cant be accused of sin.
We believe on Jesus hence we do not sin in unbelief either (John16:9).
And, it is the sin of unbelief that the world will be convicted of (John16:9).
People are either righteous OR a sinner. They cant be both. 1Pet4:18
---Haz27 on 5/10/11|
Haz is correct.
We have no testimony for the lost if we(christians) claim to yet be sinners. Our new identity is child of God,freed from sin, perfect in HIS sight. We are the blessed ones whom God will not impute sin. We are free indeed.
Again,being a Christian means a new birth, being totally set free from sin. We now have life(salvation/Christ in us), NOT sin.
Christians must never claim to be sinners, thereby insult the work of Christ.
---duane on 5/10/11|
Strongaxe, thanks, Jesus did set us free, from the bondage of sin. He sure did not make us sinless. I cannot believe anyone would believe that because if they look at their life's, they would be able to recognize their sin, in anger, not willing to help others who need us, lustful thoughts, looking at a women with lust is sin, slandering a brother is killing him, hurting someone else through words. These same people could not watch tv, go to movies, hear politics, speak against another because they could be wrong. God commands us to give thanks in everything, and who among us has not forgotten to do that? And who has not forgotten to give thanks on the bad things too. We break the law all the time. It's shear nonesense believing we are sinless.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/11|
There is a vast difference between Christians who serve Christ (but, since they are imperfect, they occasionally slip), and those who serve sin habitually.
---StrongAxe on 5/9/11|
Lets use your example of sharing the gospel with unbelievers, saying how Christ set us free from sin.
For Christians to say they still "sin", then a thinking non-believer will be confused. If Christ set us free from sin then why are we still in sin?
And what of the following:
Scriptures say Christians are:
FREE from sin Rom 6:7,18.
CANNOT sin 1John3:6-9
HOW shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Rom6:2
But those who do sin are:
Servants of sin John 8:34
Of the devil 1John3:8
These scriptures contradict your doctrine and thinking non-believers will see this.
Again, your insistence that Christ has not set us free from sin is concerning.
---Haz27 on 5/9/11|
Haz/Duane, if you want to identify yourselves as sinless, who am I to stop you. What I do know that if you ever witness to someone, and are serious about your passion for Christ, you will have to tell the Truth of the gospel. And if you claim to them a person who comes to Christ becomes sinless, and you claim to be one of them, you will find out that no one will believe you. Not only because they know already no one is, but because the gospel you preach, is not the real gospel and no saving faith will come to those who hear. We need to express the Truth of who we are. Sinners saved by grace through faith. And that Christ is there to forgive them if they have faith in His Works and His resurrection and are willing to repent.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11|
Duane's comment that Christians should not identify with satan and sin is correct.
We WERE servants of sin but NOW we are servants of righteousness Rom 6:17.
Christians are a new creation and righteous in Christ. If you understood scripture you should not have been offended by Duane's comment.
But your comment that we say God is a liar is dangerously wrong. It is based on your misunderstanding of 1John1:8 and your refusal to use God's definitions of sin.
You claim scripture is your defence for your beliefs. I suggest you should understand them first though so you can use them correctly.
Your insistence that Christ has not set us free from sin is concerning.
---Haz27 on 5/9/11|
Haz, get it right, I do not identify you are anyone with Satan because you do not agree with me. I don't need Satan as my defense to answer you or him. I use God's Word as my defense. Satan has no place in our lives, unless the blog calls for it. Otherwise Duane is identifying me with him because I don't agree in sinlessness. You should read the word of God before answering. Your feelings don't count. What God says counts. Not what the devil has to say. There is enough of God's Word to tell us we are not sinless.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11|
Why do you complain about Duane when he said Christians should not "identify with satan and sin." and yet you do the same against us saying "Do we want to be identify as sinless when the Word is not in us, and even more, calling God a liar?"
Your criticism of Duane and your erroneous claim that we say that God is a liar, shows how much you lack understanding of scriptures.
Christina is correct to say "I choose to see myself as God does, as a new creation, with Christ's righteousness"
God says we are righteous, and NOT sinners. You have seen many scriptures saying this so why reject it?
---Haz27 on 5/9/11|
Christina 2, I know for a fact that I am not sinless. The more I understand Scripture in my life, the more sin I see in myself. When we come to Christ it is only the beginning of our new lifes in Christ. The Spirit has to do a lot of cleaning up, and at no time in our lives is it complete. To teach the Truth we need to proclaim the Truth, that everyone is in rebellion against God, and in great need of Christ our Savior. To not only forgive our rebellion against God, but to change us day after day, to be more like Christ. We are righeous before God because of the righteousness imputed to us. All is covered through His own righteousness. Underneath it all, without His righteousness we all fall short of the glory of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11|
Christina, thanks, let me say first, no one is sinless. They can say they are but they are not. No one can walk to an unbeliever and tell him they are sinless, if they do, they are not hearing "the truth of the Gospel of Christ because the "Truth is not in them" 1 John 1:8. If the Truth is not in them, how can they witness the gospel to anyone? If we were sinless, the whole New T. on sanctification, Jesus our Advocate, warning to all believers, would be meaningless. Why even read Scripture if we have arrived? The worst part is, "if we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and the Word is not in us" Do we want to be identify as sinless when the Word is not in us, and even more, calling God a liar?
---Mark_V. on 5/9/11|
You are correct in your assumption. We must identify in what Christ has done for us or there is no good news to proclaim.
---duane on 5/7/11|
|Read These Insightful Articles About Holidays
Duanne and Mark_v differ in definitions of sin.
Duanne is correct saying "Our identity(Christian) is OF the Spirit,not flesh." We are NOT sinners, as scriptures show.
Sin was condemned in the flesh Rom8:3.
If Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin Rom8:10.
I no longer live but Christ lives in me Gal 2:10.
It is as you said, "I choose to see myself as God does, as a new creation, with Christ's righteousness"
Mark_v believes similar but chooses man's ambiguous definitions of sin to interpret scripture. This causes confusion.
The blog subject separates Christians from sinners just as 1Pet4:18 tells us you are either righteous OR a sinner. You cant be both.
---Haz27 on 5/7/11|
Duane, Mark. I am not as adept as many of you here in knowlege of the Word, but I'm trying to understand truth. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that Duane actually agrees with you Mark in that he states You or I could never claim salvation in the flesh.He goes on to say we IDENTIFY with Christ and HIS righteousness. We do have a choice in how we see ourselfs.(Identify) Do I choose to see myself as God does, as a new creation, with Christ's righteousness, or do I focus on my flesh? Is that what he means when he says please don't identify with Satan and sin?
---Christina on 5/7/11|
Mark ... I agree with you. Duane has for several years now been insisting that Christians must be sinless ... but when he is directly challenged to say that he never sins, he does not give an unequivocal answer.
You attribute the sinless doctrine to John Wesley. I had never heard this in connection with the Wesleyan church, nor the UK Methodists, so I investigated further.
If that false doctrine did grow out of Wesley's teachings it is because they were misunderstood or distorted
If you Google "John Wesleys position on sinless perfection" you will find a question and answer session with him, in which he makes it quite clear that Christians will go on sinning till they day rhey die
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/7/11|
Duane, I try to answer you with respect. Yet you tell me,
"Please dont identify with satan and sin."
Suggesting I identify with Satan.
Why would you say that to me? You who speaks and argues that you are sinless. You used Satan for your arguement. You could have given so many others answers, but you found the devil as something you could use for your defense. I have seen others do the same. But you know what? I forgive you, because it is you. And I do love you no matter if I don't agree that you are sinless.
---Mark_V. on 5/7/11|
Duane, I don't identify myself as sinless but a sinner saved by grace through faith. Sinless doctrine grew out of the teachings of John Wesley and continued through the early Pentacostal movement. This attainment of perfection is seen as a second work of grace that is brought instananeously in the heart of the believer. He was wrong, because believers are deemed just in the eyes of God by virtue of the Atonement and the imputed righteousness of Christ. God counts believers righteous "in Christ." in and of themselves, without regard to the work of Christ, believers remain sinners. The process of sanctification means that the believer is becoming less of a sinner, that process is not complete until death, when the believer is glorified.
---Mark_V. on 5/7/11|
All Christians(born again) are all without sin. You or I could never claim salvation in the flesh. To claim to be Christian and saved means we have been born again of the spirit,which means we have a new life, perfect before God.
We now, identify with Christ, and HIS righteousness. Please dont identify with satan and sin. You are now a new creation,set free from sin.
Our identity(Christian) is OF the Spirit,not flesh. Your first birth is sin ridden, your 2nd birth is sin free through HIM. 2ND birth is WHO you ARE.
---duane on 5/6/11|
Samuel 2: I have done a complete study on the law and grace and I'm convince that Saturday Sabbath is not for the church today. I'm convince we should worship God in spirit and in truth, everyday since Christ is in us in a relationship others under the law did not have. And since we are free from the law, we can choose anyday to assemble to worship. That is in my conscience, and now you want me to go against conscience. In fact everyone because your conscience tells you different because of what you have learned. The day should never matter. It has no purpose now through Christ. If it is legal as you say, a law, break it and you broken the law and all the laws, by putting people under the law.
---Mark_V. on 5/5/11|
Samuel, you are good brother, but make a mistake. When our conscience tells us something is wrong we should follow our conscience. If your conscience tells you to worship God on Saturdays only, who am I try to make you go agains't conscience?
"Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience?"
Offending another brother with one's freedom is very wrong. The passages are talking about food, but pertain to our conscience which the Spirit speaks to. 1 Cor. 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful, all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one's the others well-being."
---Mark_V. on 5/5/11|
But you want me to do the day you desire, because you do. That tells me that Saturday becomes a legal day, and so you are under the law.
No Mark_V I do not want you to do the day I desire. I want you to do the day GOD desires.
The law defines sin. When we live in sin we are under the law. When we live in grace we are not. But in both casses the law still says what is sin.
Many sinners die cold hungry and sick. We as Christians have hope.
---Samuel on 5/5/11|
Duane, the good news is there's salvation through Jesus Christ, who forgives our sins, the debt we owed God for being in rebellion. Now there's no condemnation to those who are in Christ. And now we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ. "My little children,(believers) these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for us only (believers his speaking to) but also for the world" (believers from other nations who are saved already)."
Believers don't enter heaven with sin, they are glorified at the Second Coming. Unbelievers sins are written in the books that will judge them.
---Mark_V. on 5/5/11|
Its just as Paul said... we delight after the law of God with the inward man, but theres another power fighting against us.... our flesh.
We're gonna struggle with this til the Lord comes and changes this disgusting vial body into a vessel of holiness! I for one, cant wait for that day!
---Jasheradan on 5/5/11|
We must claim we have been freed from sin...the purpose for the Cross. HE takes away sin. Freedom from sin is the good news. There is no freedom from punishment if sin remains. No sin shall enter in.
---duane on 5/4/11|
Duane, I believe many have waken up to the good news, but no where does the good news teach we are without sin. The Spirit within us cannot sin, but our flesh still does, it is corrupt the reason it will die. Genuine believers do sin. No one is glorified yet. We have been set free, from the bondage of sin. But
"if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us"
You claim His word is in you, so you must claim that you sin. Yet you say you don't, and God tells us if we claim we don't, then we call Him a liar. I hope you agree the Word is in you.
---Mark_V. on 5/4/11|
For it is impossible for a Christian to sin..why? For he, through faith, has been freed from sin through Jesus Christ. He who is born of God cannot sin. Sin is not imputed.
We should all wake up and hear the good news of HIS death and resurrection.
---duane on 5/3/11|
Cymybad, I was speaking of the actions you take only. You cannot control what others will do. I was a marriage counselor for a long time. I have heard of things many others have not heard. It is a natural instinct to get angry and hate and try to get vengence. But we should try very hard not extercise that instinct, because we are a new creation. As you notice, many people hurt us through time, but it is how we respond that shows who we are. We have the power, Christ in us. Pray, and ask God to help you forgive them. He will help you. If you forgive them, evidence will show that you have when you move on and not bring it up again. If you do, you have not forgiven. Remember, forgiving is not the same as forgetting. You will always remember.
---Mark_V. on 5/3/11|
It IS true we can't be doormats all the time - if your friends hurt you, it was THEY who were treating YOU as a doormat. We are to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves - we should forgive people who hurt us, but we don't have to put ourselves in a position where it is easy for them to do so. On one occasion, Jesus told his disciples to sell their spare cloak and buy a sword (Luke 22:36).
Jesus could have been a doormat by forgiving the temple moneychangers, but instead, he screamed at them and destroyed their businesses. While we probably shouldn't do that, we also can't be expected to accept all manners of outrageous behavior with a smile either.
What an incredibly insightful metaphor!
---StrongAxe on 5/2/11|
cjmybad, Christians do not do as you have said, but sinners. Many people go around calling themselves Christians, and just because they go to a church does not make them a real Christian. As you grow in the Lord you will learn who is the true Christian and who is the fake Christian. The sinners who call them selves Christians and deal out sin hurting others, they are not forgiven because they ask for forgiveness, but the true repentant sinner will not sin again, for they realize the damage of nailing innocent Christ to the cross and so they will not do despite to the face of grace. Cheap or fake repentance will never receive forgiveness and that condemned soul will remain condemned until they get serious about their sin and truly fess up.
---Eloy on 5/1/11|
Somebody (wish I knew who) once said.
Holding on to bitterness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
---Donna66 on 5/1/11|
Mark - if the world was full of Christians like you (and me before) where we did forgive everyone and we did live in God's grace then it would be a better world. But as c & j told me (those were the Christians who hurt us) 'we can't be doormats all the time'. What happened to being a Christian? Sometimes forgiveness just cannot happen unless they stop their bahavior and make amends (at least for a lot of people). I commend you if you can and for your committment to your beliefs.
---cjmybad on 5/1/11|
Cjmybad, I'm sorry you were hurt by fellow Christians. I'm also sorry you took it so hard. The way I see it, things happen in our lives, and we have control over how much we let it effect us. We can take it hard, or we can take it as a lesson from God. A good example is, when a person is married and the spouse suddenly leaves. The action we take can be to get angry, and hate the other, or we can turn it to God and forgive the others. Many chose to get angry and hate the other, but that effects us not the other. When we don't forgive it continues to hurt us. When we forgive we let go of that burden we carry and we begin to function with a pure heart towards God. I see its still hurting you, because you have not forgiven them. Peace be with you.
---Mark_V. on 4/29/11|
The Bible tells us to be as wise as serpents, yet gentle as doves. Many people are as gentle as doves, yet as trusting as sheep - which can end up hurting them.
Whenever anyone tells me something, I am willing to take him at his word, yet I do not personally rely on his word unless I have corroboration, or know the person to be trustworthy.
The apostle Paul praised the Bereans - they "searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were so" - they didn't even take Paul at his word, but checked to make sure what he was preaching was correct. Rather than condemn them for being faithless, he praised them for their diligence.
---StrongAxe on 4/29/11|
StrongAxe, you are a careing person. When someone hurts you so badly especially when it's someone who promotes themselves as a fellow Christian, I don't think it will ever heal. I prayed for help and grace and guidance and got nothing. Maybe it was a way for me not to be so trusting to believe what everyone says.
---cjmybad on 4/29/11|
The so-called Christians who do such things are Christians in name only - they aren't REALLY followers of Christ at all.
If they WERE, they would surely obey what Jesus said was the second most important commandment - love your neighbor as yourself. Such people are trying to get all the benefits of joining an "elite club" without having to pay any of the dues.
There have always been (and will always be) some bad apples like that, but that shouldn't discourage you from dealing with REAL Christians (and, as Jesus said multiple times), you can tell the real ones from the fake ones by their fruits (i.e. they put their money where their mouth is).
---StrongAxe on 4/29/11|
Do they? Many sinners in the media have riches and fame and drug habits because they are so unhappy.
All people die and lose their loved ones. Some have no loved ones.
People want peace of heart. How many sinners have that without drugs?
---Samuel on 4/29/11|
James 3:1-13. We all stumble in many ways he says. Does that not also apply to me and you? Do you correct with gentleness and wisdom or as the Pharisees in self-righteousness.
James 2:13 "for judgement is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgement".
It is OK to correct or point out sin, but be cautious how you do!
---willa5568 on 4/29/11|
willa5568, "To one that knows to do good and does not, to that one it is sin. Wisdom better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroys much good. Evil pursues sinners, but to the righteous good will be repaid. And together will be the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners, and consumed they that forsake Yhwh. Note, the day of Yhwh comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he will destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Now we know that God hears not sinners, but if any person be a worshipper of God, and does his will, that person he hears. Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from sin." Jms.4:17+ Ecc.9:18+ Pv.13:21+ Is.1:28+ 13:9+ Jn.9:31+ II Tm.2:19.
---Eloy on 4/29/11|
May I ask you what you consider or how you define a sinner?
I agree we are holy, we belong to the Lord, are set apart from unbelievers. But " You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law, you have fallen away from grace".(Gal 5:4) I would also like you to consider this "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted "(Gal 6:1).
---willa5568 on 4/27/11|
lol and where does it say Christians NEVER sin?
I'll help you out - it doesn't
amusing when self-appointed christians do not get what they want they blame it on God instead of themselves and then the "holy" roller LIE "I'm a suffering christian"
all that makes one is a suffering christian for their wants ...many "sinners" get what they want BECAUSE ALL fall short of the glory of God and ONLY one was ever sinless and that is Christ Jesus
---Rhonda on 4/26/11|
Christians are saints, not sinners: Sinners are unholy, not Christians.
---Eloy on 4/26/11|
Chrsitans suffer because we desire fellowship with the savior or at least claim we desire the "fellowship of his sufferings." The sufferings weed out the fakers.
Christians are also sinners, albeit forgiven, so the second part of the question doesn't make sense.
---larry on 4/25/11|
I found just the opposite - christians dole out the pain and sin knowing they can be forgiven no matter what harm they do! Nonbelievers know what goes around comes around and treat others better knowing how we treat people here on earth now is more important than what happens after we are dead and buried.
---cjmybad on 4/25/11|
//Why do Christians have to suffer, and sinners get what they want?//
There is a world of difference in what you want and what you need
---michael_e on 4/24/11|
Suffering should bring you closer to Christ, sinners are on their own and have no Christ.
---Eloy on 4/22/11|
This question echos the plaintive cry of some of the psalms. But actually, everyone knows that non-Christians DO suffer and don't ALWAYS get what they want.
But even if a sinner gets everything he wants, he will not be happy for long, because the flesh always wants more...more...more!
As Christians, we can leave the grasping of the flesh behind, and be thankful to enjoy the blessings of God (sometimes even in the midst of suffering).
But there is one thing a sinner wants that, as long as he is a sinner, he can count on.
He wants to be free of God. And when he dies he will be, for the first and last time, totally free of God!
---Donna66 on 4/21/11|
Our(christians) reward is in heaven. Eternal life. Even though we can enjoy life and have peace and happiness now. There are many sacrifices christians have to make here on earth. The unsaved do not bother with that. Nor do they care about that. They want what they want...now! Here on earth.Whatever that may be. A sad trade-off. The world has nothing lasting to offer anyone. But I would rather have Jesus and inherit eternal life.Jesus is the best choice,for me.
---Robyn on 4/21/11|
The only real. true peace of mind in this world comes from God. You can only receive it through Salvation. So to say that sinners get everything they want isn't totally accurate. There is pleasure in sin for a season... then comes the stress & heartache from that sin. And there are some that have everything material wise & still seek something to fill the emptiness they feel. Only God can fill that emptiness for them. On the other hand, we as God's children are not home yet so we cant expect for things to be perfect for us. This world is not our home.
---Reba on 12/15/10|
Read your bible Larry. Your slackness is showing by your question.Go to Psalms 73, for starters. Psalms 37 will guide you as well.There are other scriptures. Read/study/seek the bible for its golden nuggets of truth. Blessings
---Robyn on 11/26/10|
Amen to the Psalm below.
To add to that the Pslams also say it is the ungodly that prosper in this world.
---Frank on 11/18/10|
"Why do Christians have to suffer, and sinners get what they want?"
If, we, as followers of Christ, suffer with Him, we can take comfort knowing that we will also, in His time, be glorified with Him, and nothing in this life is worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
And truly "what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
Do not fret because of evildoers, Nor be envious of the wicked. For there will be no prospect for the evil man, The lamp of the wicked will be put out." Mat 16:26>Luk 9:25>Pro 24:19,20
---Josef on 11/17/10|
No offense, but that's actually Psalm 73 that's quoted below--thanks :)
---Mary on 11/9/10|
The Bible says the rain falls on the just and unjust alike - Matthew 5:45. It may not be fair to us, but this shows God's goodness which leads to repentance Romans 2:4. As far as Christians suffering, the Bible says that if you belong to Christ, you WILL be hated and persecuted because of Christ, and we also MUST share in His sufferings - John 15:18-20, Romans 8:17, 2 Timothy 3:12, 1 Peter 4:12-17. Suffering also produces character - Romans 5:3-5. As long as you are alive, you WILL have problems, that is a fact.
---Leslie on 11/8/10|
Hi, Terry . . . I see that there are un-Christian people who get what they try to get, but what they want is so less than God gives us. "You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections." (2 Corinthians 6:12) So, we as Christians can spoil things, by wanting what is inferior . . . what this world's people are able to get.
And there are people who are not obeying God, though they claim to be Christians. So . . . they get their own selves into trouble and suffering witch their own selfishness and stubbornness and spirit of independence help to bring upon to them.
So, we would need to get to know each person, in order to understand "why", for each one.
---Bill on 11/8/10|
Do not murmur, Christians are sinners too. The difference is God only chastises the Christian because He loves him. To teach him the vileness of his sin. As for the unbeliever, he will die in his sin of unbelief in God's Word and spend eternity in the lake of fire (the second death).
Romans 8:16-18 - "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
---christan on 11/8/10|
From Psalm 76, NIV:
3 For I envied the arrogant
when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 They have no struggles,
their bodies are healthy and strong.[a]
5 They are free from common human burdens,
they are not plagued by human ills.
11 They say, How would God know?
Does the Most High know anything?
12 This is what the wicked are like
always free of care, they go on amassing wealth.
13 Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure
and have washed my hands in innocence.
14 All day long I have been afflicted,
and every morning brings new punishments.
17 till I entered the sanctuary of God,
then I understood their final destiny.
---Cluny on 11/8/10|
Oh but they don't it only seems that way and because you focus on it satan has multiplied their worldly lustful life to look so ''good'', how enticing,
I'd rather suffer with Christ and raise with him when he returns living for eternity than have 70 measly pain ridden, heart breaking, years of worldly living then lose my soul at the end of it all.
What is a man's advantage if he gains the whole wide world and then looses his soul?, if any man should follow after my Jesus take up his cross and follow him he will have gained the whole eternity in a beautiful paradise that as long as you live you could not hear or imagine how fantastic it will be.
---Carla on 11/8/10|
I WISH I KNEW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. HALLELUJAH! Jesus promised it to us. He also promised to bring us through, and victoriously. HOW DOES UNBELIEVERS MAKE IT WITHOUT JESUS, I'll never know. I guess they have something that I didn't have. Hallelujah, thank You, Jesus. Oh, I am so glad that there is a God. Hallelujah!
---catherine on 11/8/10|
terry, you need to do what I did when I had the same question back about 20 years ago.
I went through the Psalms and Proverbs and read what happens to the wicked. They suffer consequences more than we do. Even if it's something good they get on this earth, it's NOT eternal and it won't get them into heaven. Their decieved.
God showed me one time, the things the wicked obtain are burned in the fire when they die and they don't have eternal life. Seek eternal things like Jesus, the Kingdom of God, God's will for your life, etc., and you will have eternal life - the wicked will burn in hell for all eternity.
---Donna5535 on 11/8/10|
---Kimbe7395 on 11/8/10 spoke well.
---aka on 11/8/10|
sinners only think they are getting what they want to their own detriment.
saints have to suffer for their own refinement.
---aka on 11/7/10|
A lot of people, even in the Bible, have asked this when life seems unfair. But actually sinners don't always get what they want AND they may also suffer greatly! Moreover, even when they get everything they want, they are likely to be unsatisfied.
The actual rewards of the Christian are MUCH greater and more valuable. What would you rather have than Jesus to be by your side to help you any moment? What would you rather have than eternal rejoicing in Heaven after you die? Jesus has already given you the GREATEST gift. He gave His life for you and shed His very blood to give you what you could NEVER obtain...forgiveness of sins and right standing before God, the father.
Until sinners come to Christ, they are missing ALL OF THIS.
---Donna66 on 11/8/10|
We have to go through, because it's not about us, it's about the Lord. I know it's hard to digest, however, we are suffering for the Kingdom of Heaven, that comes with a great price. The Lord will perfect that which concerns me, Your mercy, O Lord, endures forever, do not forsake the works of Your hands. Psalm 138:8
Therefore, it looks like the sinners are succeeding, but in actuality they are really not. As human beings, we look at things in natural, but it's about the things that we don't see that's in Spiritual realm that counts. Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. Psalm 37:1-2
---Kimbe7395 on 11/8/10|
Understandable query, but when you do understand your salvation the question will be re-worded.
"Why do Christians get fellowship when sinners get to live a lie?"
Remember "fellowship of his sufferings?"
---larry on 11/7/10|
This is a very familiar lament, it's echoed all through scripture, but God answers the objection in Malachi 3:16-18. he answers with a promise, that he will write their names in a book and remember them that fear him. God's solution doesn't get fleshed out as we'd like it, his repayment is reserved for those that love his name and will wait for their time.
Their time comes at his time, when he reclaims all that is his. In that time you'll have a reward you never earned, all things will be yours:
He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Revelation 21:7
---Pharisee on 11/7/10|
Where did you get the idea that "sinners" always got what they wanted?
There is NOBODY on these boards, including YOU, terry, who is NOT a sinner.
This sinner doesn't get what he wants (which includes dentures and a contrabass clarinet), but he gets what he NEEDS through God's providence.
It sounds to me like you've been listening to too many prosperity preachers.
The Gospel of Holy Prosperity is NOT Christianity.
---Cluny on 11/7/10|
I am a sinner, saved by grace. Any of my sufferings were brought on me by my own sins. My divorce, was the result of my mistakes in my marriage.
As for why believers suffer, read James chapter 1 and learn about the purpose of trials.
Sinners, the unsaved ones, may seem to get what they want, but pity the fools, because upon their death, they are eternally separated from heaven and God. I grow closer to the Lord with my trials. I also have eternal glory to look forward to someday.
---Trish on 11/7/10|