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By Faith In Jesus Christ

"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe." Carefully reading of this verse totally dismisses our behavior as far as gaining salvation is concern. Your thoughts?

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 ---mima on 11/16/10
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//JACKB 12/12/10 We can harden are hearts to him,
//

Richard,

Hebrews 3:7-19... go read it sir.

There is no room for opinion or interpretation in this passage. It shows you from the very words of the Holy Spirit that he is warning us NOT to harden ourselves again Him.

Either the Bible directly contradicts itself or its possible that as millions of CHristians have tried to show Calvinists worldwide, youre interpretation of Romans 9 is perverse because most people dont cross reference that chapter.
---JackB on 12/15/10


Fact of the matter is that God CAN do whatever he pleases with his creation. He is the owner. All things have life because he gave it to them. But DOES he? Or does He follow the same codes of holiness and righteousness that He gives to his creation? God is no hypocrite.

One who abhors evil so much would create evil things and destroy them simply for his own pleasure? Do you people even listen to yourselves?

Its one thing to memorize 100 scriptures and form your own twisted opinion of who God is so as to set yourself upon a pedestal as his chosen. Its another to have a personal relationship with Him and feel his love flowing thru you on a daily basis and to KNOW his heart.
---JackB on 12/15/10


Any fool can quote scriptures and twist Gods image. Atheists do it ALL the time.

The Fruit of the Spirit is our proof that we know Him. Not our knowledge of scripture or greek and hebrew translations or our self-proclaimed election above the rest of mankind.

Those who know GOD, FEEL his love and want to share it with the rest of the world. Its our new instinct. Its not something we can be content bottling up for ourselves, while the rest of the world is lost without it.

If youre so happy with your own salvation that you could care less about those who dont have it, then something has gone terribly wrong in your heart.
---JackB on 12/15/10


MarkV: Keep digging! You are just getting in deeper. To infer that I would call the Gospel filth is a FILTHY lie! Oh, but I forgot. You chosen types don't have to tell the truth because you're exempt from keeping the Ten Commandments.

Don't you find the following statements self-contradictory? I do!

"For you will be held accountable for what you choose. That is also determined by God already."
---jerry6593 on 12/15/10


//Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do" for His good pleasure" Phil. 2:12,13

If God works within the believer and that believer is fully cooperative in the work of His Spirit, then would it not be obvious that the Levitical dietary laws as well as observance to the OT Sabbath are not applicable?

And such is the testimony of His church over the centuries, there is no conviction or leading of His Spirit to observe cherry picked OT and strictly Jewish laws.
---leej on 12/14/10




I would like to ask my brothers/sisters in Christ to begin praying for 1Cliff and the treatments he is taking. We know that chemo is not fun at all to anyone. I call for this prayer request on this blog just in case no one has heard of his troubles at this time.
Sister Darline, please join us with those that you know, in prayer for Cliff, he is one that has been here a long time who always keeps us searching Scripture to answer him. In the name of Jesus lets all go in prayer for one another, especially for Cliff.
---Mark_V. on 12/14/10


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


---christan on 12/14/10

Then christan, why did you deny the Lordship of Jesus in your life and call it WORKS?
You stated so on the Lordship thread.

Lying and twisting is NOT GOD'S WILL! That's YOUR works!
---kathr4453 on 12/14/10


Jerry, by your own remarks you side on people who call the Gospel filth. Just because I disagree with you on Saturday Sabbath. Thanks for making it clear what you stand for again. And who you side with.
You you have proven, I was not wrong about you. Also as you said, I was chosen from the foundation of the world. Which tells me you have not found out if you were or not. If I was you, I would worry more about your salvation then mine. For you will be held accountable for what you choose. That is also determined by God already.
---Mark_V. on 12/14/10


Instead of complaining about things, learn who God is when He says,
"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do" for His good pleasure" Phil. 2:12,13
Find out that although the believer is responsible to work (v.12) the Lord actually produces the good works and spiritual fruit in the lives of believers (John 15:5, 1 Cor. 12:6 ) accomplished because He works through us by His indwelling Spirit (Acts 1:8, 1 Cor. 3:16,17, 6:19,20, Gal. 3:3). 2:14 " Without complaining and disputing" means muttering or grumbling in a low tone of voice. It is an emotional rejection of God's Providence, will, and circumstance for ones life.
---Mark_V. on 12/14/10


Harken onto the words of the Lord:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
---christan on 12/14/10




Another of Mark's lies "You blaspheme God for you were the one saying He made people sin"

Mark YOU KNOW that Kathr never said that God made people sin.

Why do you make such despicable untrue accusations?
---alan8566_of_UK on 12/14/10


It's said by those who have no understanding of the God of Scripture:

"Either ALL men are accoutable , or NO MAN is accountable under the condition of predestination."
All men are held accountable. All men have a choice. No one puts a gun to their heads. Whatever sin they do, they are accountable. Again, God does not make them sin, they sin out of their own hearts. All come short of the glory of God. Whatever choice they make has already been known by God. He knows who will and who will not give their lives to Christ. He determines when and were they will be born, from what nation they will come from, what people they will encounter in life. Where they will hear the gospel and who will believe it.
---Mark_V. on 12/14/10


Alan: You have apparently forgotten that MarkV, being a "chosen one" from the foundation of the earth, has the god-like ability to know our minds better than we do. So, by definition, unchosen rabble like you and me must be wrong when we dare to think that the exhalted MarkV could ever lie. Not!
---jerry6593 on 12/14/10


Alan, I see more than MarkV plays this game. Isn't it interesting that this particular clan all practice to deceive, (in many different ways). Oh what a thangled web they try to weave. But in the end, THEY will have to stand before God and give an account of EVERY lie, and twisted word to God.

They think because they are the Elect, they are FREE to do/say anything they want. It's sin. Armininan are correct to ask, Does Grace mean you can lie and sin and get away with it?

Well no, they will not get away with it.
I promise you they won't.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/10


Alan of UK, It is evident to me and many reading, If they can lie and twist and slander men, do they not also lie, twist scripture and slander God too?

I just read Psalms 10 at God's prompting and with God's eyes can see the motive.
---Laura on 12/14/10


Mark PLEASE CEASE YOUR LIES

You know Kathr meant the WORLD calls the gospel filthy

You know I did NOT call the gospel filthy

You know Kathr DID NOT say that God made people sin. She and I said that YOUR doctrine means that.

You have accused me of denying God's Sovereignty ... LIE

You have accused me of wanting the glory for my salvation ... LIE

How sad that you have to stoop to LYING.

You know your arguments are quite good, and a sensible discussion could take place ... if only if you would stop your so-frequent LIES and misrepresentations.
---alan8566_of_UK on 12/13/10


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JACKB 12/12/10 We can harden are hearts to him,

ROMANS 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on WHOM HE WILL HAVE MERCY, and WHOM HE WILL HARDENETH.( GODS in total control)

KATHR4453 12/12/10 Either all men are accountable or No man----

JOEL 2:32 -------- as the LORD hath said the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
MATTHEW 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son name JESUS,for he shall save HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS.

KATHR4453 The condition of faith being man responsibility

GALATIANS 2,16 -------- that we might be Justified by the faith of CHRIST, ---- ( Man is not save by his faith, but by Faith of JESUS CHRIST - man faith is a work )

---RICHARD on 12/13/10


//God will hold accountable those who are not saved, even though God predestined it,

Those that are saved have received the gift of salvation (Eph. 2:8-10), while those who have rejected His grace, will only received justice.
---leej on 12/13/10


leej, Yes but..

We do see in the beginning of Exodus: There arose a King in Egypt who knew not Joseph. This sets the tone for the rest of the book of Exodus. Egypt was certainly blessed by a previous Pharaoh. But as time went on, an evil Pharaoh was in power who forgot all the blessings God had given Egypt through Joseph..( I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you) and we do see that very TRUTH here.
This evil Pharaoh murdered all the first born of the Israelites. Moses was saved by his mother and raised by Pharaohs sister. Moses was even responsible for the abuse of Israel UNTIL Moses found out He was a Jew himself.
More Later!
---kathr4453 on 12/13/10


RICHARD, I don't have a problem with any of those verses you listed.

Names are writted today as God is justifying WICKED, Ungodly men who have placed theri faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus only came to save wicked and evil sinners. Didn't you know that.

If Jesus came to save sinners, He must have made FAITH possible for wicked sinners to respond! It's the self-righteous who don't believe they are sinners or need saving to begin with!

AND Richard, the Book of names were NOT written BEFORE the foundation of the world!
---kathr4453 on 12/13/10


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JackB //This fantasy of Calvinism about 2 separate 'calls' (general and efficacious)is fantasy.

I have some of Calvin's works and would like to know if you have any reference on these 2 separate 'calls'?

All too often people mis-quote Calvin and ignore the scriptural basis for his beliefs.

Poor poor God, He is not permitted to do those things which will serve His glory, such as creating an Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Judas Iscariot, etc. (and maybe even you!!!!)

Sorry to believe those scripture that speaks of God as the Potter and we as the clay. Romans 9.

But such is the plight of those who impose their sense of what is fair onto God.



---leej on 12/13/10


This crazy doctrine actually wants you to believe God will hold accountable those who are not saved, even though God predestined it, but does not hold you accountable for your salvation, which is also predestined.


Either ALL men are accoutable , or NO MAN is accountable under the condition of predestination.

The condition of faith being man's responsibility, holds all accountable.

God never stripped man of his responsibility. We're not dust mites floating around in space!
---kathr4453 on 12/12/10


Do I really need to say this again, Mark?

God does call people out of darkness into the light of his Son. It is HIS salvation. What you fail to realize is that everyone who hears the gospel is "called". People do not know whom to place their faith in UNTIL they hear the gospel.

This fantasy of Calvinism about 2 separate 'calls' (general and efficacious)is fantasy. The only reason they dare suggest there are 2 calls is because they dont believe what the word of God says about the decision we are required to make.

Men CAN resist the Holy Ghost. We CAN harden our hearts to Him. God even warns us NOT to do so when we hear His voice.
---JackB on 12/12/10


And you never answered my question Mark.

How would it make you feel to know that God hates your son and didnt die for him, but yet he died for you?

Keep in mind this choice was simply at random. He just didnt want to love your son. Yet he claims to love you.

Its easy to believe in Calvinism as long as your and your own are on Gods 'loved' side. What if it hits close to home and God hates your children just cuz.
---JackB on 12/12/10


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kathr4453 //God didn't make (predestine) anyone to stumble anymore than GOD MADE,(predestined)ANYONE TO BELIEVE IN HIM.

Yes, but we see that God harden the heart of Pharoah so that he would sin. And was Pharoah not predestined to do what he did?

Ro 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."

We truly need to realize the truth as expressed in Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD".

When we try to impose our ideals of fairness unto God, we will have problems with what the Scripture tells us.
---leej on 12/12/10


You blaspheme God for you were the one saying He made people sin. And He never said what you suggest He said. You also call the Gospel filthy. There is nothing filthy about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/10


KATHR 4453 God didn,t make anyone to Stumble? I like to know how you can come to that conclusion when the Bible seems to say likewise.

REVELATION 17:5 ------- Whose name were NOT written in the Book of life From The Foundation of the earth. --- ( and there are alot more verses like this in the Bible:How do you get around it?)

ANYONE THAT BELIEVE ON HIM
( You have to look at everything the Bible is saying, now you can isolate out a verse and then come to the conculsion, all I got to do is believe - But if you really look into it gets more complex

ROMANS 10:9 That if thou confess with thy mouth the LORD JESUS, and BELIEVE IN THINE HEART.( What do you know of a unsave person heart - It's desperately wicked,
---RICHARD on 12/12/10


I never said God made them sin. --They were pre-destined to sin is what I wrote. I got it from Scripture,

"They stumble because they disobey the word, "as they were destined to do." But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light"
Everyone that God has chosen are a people for His own possession, the others were destined to stumble because they disobeyed the word. God did not make them stumble.---Mark_V. on 12/12/10
stop the double talk here.

God didn't make (predestine) anyone to stumble anymore than GOD MADE,(predestined)ANYONE TO BELIEVE IN HIM.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/10


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//Mima, the expression of "Whosoever" Comes from Joel 2:32.markv//

The original expression of who so ever first comes from exodus. Who ever looks upon the serpent.

I see Jesus used Exodus as the expression of who so ever in John 3:16 as we look at verse 14.

If he wanted to use Joel, He would have, but he used Exodus.
But who so ever is not an expression. The definition of who so ever means who so ever, all, anyone.
---Laura on 12/12/10


Kathr,
Breaking away from legalism?
Only the Spirit of God can do it. Only God can give repentance.(a change of mind)
---duane on 12/12/10


It is said,
"Your SON (by your own words) is a nonbeliever. Does that mean God has predestined your child to go to hell but to save you?"
I don't know. His alive still, and maybe one day he will know the Truth just as you might one day know the Truth of Scripture. I'm not God. Maybe one day you will be revealed the Truth by the Holy Spirit and maybe not. You might also be destine to disobey it,
"They stumble because they disobey the word, "as they were destined to do." But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light"
---Mark_V. on 12/12/10


Part 2: You are not proclaiming the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness. You are suggesting you came out of darkness by yourself so you proclaim your own excellencies not God's. He called you out of darkness if you are saved, but you do not believe that. That is why you continue to argue against God.
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Thess. 5:9.
"who shall bring any charge against God's elect?" Romans 8:33. Is it you? You bring charges against the elect because you are blind to the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/10


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//if God predestine all human beings to be save, then all would be saved.

That basically is known as universalism - the belief that a loving God may punish but eventually grant salvation to all His creation.

Usually those who detest the doctrines of the Sovereignty of God and Election, simply have chosen to ignore many of the scripture that address this subject.

I view the problem as being one in which our concept of fairness is imposed on God. But such is really human philosophy.



---leej on 12/11/10


Mark, do you not realize that rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ is a sin?

God does not lead men into sin or temptation

Your SON (by your own words) is a nonbeliever. Does that mean God has predestined your child to go to hell but to save you?

How does that make you feel inside?

God loves YOU enough to want to save you but not your child whom you love dearly?
---JackB on 12/11/10


francis //"The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law, but he is incapable of rendering it... Christs righteousness is accepted in place of mans failure,..."

According to Ro 7:4 The believer has died to the law therefore what obligation to we have to something from which we died to?

"Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God."

We belong to Christ, not to the law.
---leej on 12/11/10


Andy, if God predestine all human beings to be save, then all would be saved. But as we know they are not, and they are not because not all were predestined to be saved.
Pre- means before, and destine means where you are heading. What it means is that our ultimate destiny is in the hands of God. He chose some individuals to be saved into everlasting blessedness in heaven and others He chose to pass over, to allow them to follow the consequences of their sins into eternal torment in hell.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/10


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Mima, the expression of "Whosoever" Comes from Joel 2:32. In that case it was talking about the remnant of Israel. That word in Gk. means "pas" which has several meanings depending where it is found. It can mean the individual within the totality and the totality of the individuals. It can stand alone as in the case of pas, anyone or everyone. In Joel it was talking about the remnant of Israel "....As the Lord has said, Among the remnant whom the Lord calls" The whosoever will pertains to the remnant. All of them will be saved. Who are the remnant? Those who were chosen by God whom God will call.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/10


"Mark V as you know the Bible in many places uses the words whosoever will. So along those same lines how would predestination deal with the words whosoever will?"
Mima on 12/10/10
"Carefully reading of this verse totally dismisses our behavior as far as gaining salvation is concern. Your thoughts?"
Blog.
Mima, exercising the will is a behavior, is it not?
---Nana on 12/10/10


Mark V as you know the Bible in many places uses the words whosoever will. So along those same lines how would predestination deal with the words whosoever will?
---mima on 12/10/10


For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whoever believes Him shal be saved. Basically God predestined us all to be saved. man however rejects Gods free gift of salvation, which leaves us without excuse God has foreordained us ackording his foreknowledge since he knows allready who will accept and reject and still he calls all to be saved.
---andy3996 on 12/10/10


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We all know markV where your hatred is headed! AS YOU:

Thessalonians 2:16
Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.



Now how does THAT fit into God's sovereignty. Are you saying GOD was behind those false teachers and obstructive behavior DISORDER PEOPLE like yourself forbidding the Preaching of the Gospel? And you call me filth for preaching the Gospel??
---kathr4453 on 12/10/10


Different version have it worded differently
KJV has FAITH OF, NIV has faith IN, NASB has faith IN,
the NKJV has faith IN

I know mima is focusing on the FAITH OF as opposed to faith IN. But what do you make of different versions having it differently?
---francis on 12/10/10


Matthew 6:14-15 (N.I.V.)
Jesus said, For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
---Allan_McDougall on 12/10/10


Mima said,
""Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe."
and Kathr says to oppose election,
"But it also dismisses a secret select elect too."
How does it dismiss? isn't only those who believe a select few? And who are the select few? Those that God chose from the foundation of the world. The vessels of mercy. The are a select few.
"They stumble because they disobey the word, "as they were destined" to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light"
---Mark_V. on 12/10/10


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It is said by Kathr and cannot be confirm that:

"Thousands of Jews who put Jesus on the cross were in fact SAVED at penticost. How do I know. Because it is recorded right there in Acts! Only Jews were saved."

Nowhere does Acts record that the same Jews who put Jesus on the Cross were ever saved. Thousands did not put Him on the Cross, but a few did. And those who did are not recorded anywhere that they were in fact saved.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/10


mima, great verse. But it also dismisses a secret select elect too.

The war of your soul is between God and Satan. Man was formed in the Image of God.

Sin brought death and separation from God. Now man is under satan's dominion.

God sent Jesus Christ to buy back mankind.

Whosoever will may have LIFE again from the dead IN CHRIST alone, in His Righteousness ALONE. What an amazing Loving God we have!
---kathr4453 on 12/8/10


Ro 3:21 NLT But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.

The verse is often referenced in regard to the concept of imputed righteousness.

Since no human can become righteous in the eyes of God via the law, the righteousness that is in Christ is credited to our account.

1 Cor. 1:30 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.

However, even if we are not under the law, we still have an obligation not to sin. Romans 6:15-16
---leej on 12/5/10


Mima, my opinion after studying the word of God as to the passage given in Galatians 2:16, where the word of God says,
"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto and upon all them that believe"
is talking about saving faith. Not just faith that everyone has. "of Christ" means just that. Hebrews 12:2 explains this faith that is mentioned in Gal. where it says,

"Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, (believers) looking unto Jesus, the Author and finisher of our faith"
In this case faith is explained that it comes from Christ. In other areas it does not explain the faith talked about.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/10


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leej, agree! Now if you look at ACTS and follow Paul's journeys, you will also note that these same dates of his ministry, some JEW,writing to the Jewish christian community ( and I don't believe it was Paul wrote Hebrews) concerning Jews who were having a hard time breaking away from the old, and on to the new. The Gospel of GRACE is so wonderfully laid out with warnings not to go back under Jewish traditions of the Law. Hebrews 10 makes that so clear.

I imagine it would be like any RCC being converted to Christianity, letting go of a lifetime of traditions ingrained from birth. Many Christians today ( gentile) have a difficult time breaking away from any kind of legalism they may have been taught growing up under RELIGION etc.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/10


Thousands of Jews who put Jesus on the cross were in fact SAVED at penticost. How di I know. Because it is recorded right there in Acts! Only Jews were saved.

Agree that the earliest church was totally Jewish, but there were divisions between Hebrew and Greek speaking Jews - the latter did not have food for their widows.

And the word of God increased, and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly, and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. (6:7)

This was the reason why the Jerusalem church still followed in the Mosaic traditions which lead to conflicts later on with Gentile Christians (Acts 15:5) and in particular with what Paul taught.(21:21)

---leej on 11/20/10


catherine, Thousands of Jews who put Jesus on the cross were in fact SAVED at penticost. How di I know. Because it is recorded right there in Acts! Only Jews were saved. ALL those Jews who came in for Passover were the same Jews who stayed for the Jewish day of Penticost. Look in the OT, and you will see in the OT 50 days after Passover was what?? DO YOU KNOW!!
---kathr4453 on 11/20/10


I believe Romans 7 has a bearing on this issue.

(14-23) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not, but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

So in the flesh we can never be justified as our efforts to be righteous are futile.
---leej on 11/19/10


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Always put HOLY in front of the word LOVE. God only loves the wicked as for allowing the sun to fall down on it's head and the rain, too. This is where God's holy love begins and ends with the wicked man. It is called complacent love. Many people are going to hell and wondering, I thought God is love, what am I a doing in this place. False preachers, abounds. One reason why you are in hell. Hallelujah.
---catherine on 11/18/10


God IS Love, Catherine. If you have a problem with love, you definitely have a problem with God.
---Linda on 11/18/10


To forgive in some text also means to allow. Just another example of unbelievers not studying, but can only quote....Not one person who was directly involved in Jesus' death was forgiven. How do I know, you may ask. Because, I asked God this very pointed question. Thank God my God talks to me. Cause He knows me. If you are saved, why don't you try talking to Him, He loves to answer His people's questions. Oh my, yes.
---catherine on 11/18/10


catherine, hve you forgotten it was GOD who so gave His only Begotten Son to die on the cross? Have you also forgotten Jesus said " Forgive them for they know not what they do".

If Jesus forgave them, why do you too make such hateful remarks?

I see you over and over saying hallallulla for hell will be full.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/10


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catherine - is it not what is meant by believing?

Those that truly believe will find themselves in Christ by regeneration of the Holy Spirit and with the endowment of a new creation that abhors sin, follow Him.

Unfortunately there are many that would tell you that it is Christ, plus something else like obedience to rituals, laws, church membership, sabbath obedience, etc.
---leej on 11/18/10


Cluny,Jesus never said he was God,he did say he was only his son regardless of what the way someone believes he appeared to man as in a humanly defined concept like incarnation.Jesus never said ,if you hear my voice you have heard the Father.
There is cosmological and there is spiritual concepts of relationship between God and Jesus to consider and the two are not the same cosmologically but truly they are spiritually .This is why Jesus said no one has heard the Father's voice.If it were so then Jesus's listeners would have heard God speaking to them.So God incarnate,as it is loosely defined , is very questionable in this light.
---earl on 11/18/10


This is what I am getting from God. Like it or lump it. Christ gives us the POWER to BELIEVE---through the NEW BIRTH. And this is what makes us right with the living, true, God. Everyone thinks that you can just get to heaven by just believing. You had better stop believing this....First, before you can believeee---you must be saved by the POWER of His Blood, Yes. Hallelujah. Which was shed on a cross at the hands of wicked men who held power in their hands.--That's it, my friends.++
---catherine on 11/18/10


Barnes Notes on Hebrews 5:9 Unto all them that obey him. It is not to save those who live in sin. Only those who obey him have any evidence that they will be saved.

John 14:15 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And John tells us what these commandments are in 1 John 3:22-24

1) believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ

and

2) Love one another, (for love of neighbor fulfills the law (Romans 13:9-10)

Nothing is found within the New Testament (or in the teachings of the early church) that tells us we must abstain from certain foods or observe any day as holy. Of course, if you are Jewish, you may want to observe the Mosaic laws.
---leej on 11/18/10


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YOUR THOUGHT and MY THOUGHT are not important.

Only what God says is important.

Our behaviour is important where salvation is concerned.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all THEM THAT OBEY him,

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of OBEDIENCE unto righteousness?

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
---francis on 11/18/10


Correction to previous post.
What I meant to write was "however salvation will certainly 'affect' [as in influence, sway, modify, alter] ones behavior:o)
---joseph on 11/18/10


"Your thoughts?"
Man does not "gain" salvation. Man is granted salvation.
Ones behavior is irrelevant to be granted salvation,
however salvation will certainly effect ones behavior..
---joseph on 11/18/10


//No prayer needed, just faith in Jesus.// ---James_L on 11/17/10

amen. it very hard for us to grasp this. the only thing I would add to james_l's statement is just continued faith in Jesus.

the delivery does not begin with our [anything]. it begins with His Righteousness...the Word...the scattered seed.
---aka on 11/17/10


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Carefully reading of this verse totally dismisses our behavior as far as gaining salvation is concern. ***Mima

Mima
For this to be true you must totally dismissed the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Below is one of many verses, that proves our behavior does have something to do with Salvation.
(John 8:51)
"Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.
---David on 11/18/10


Obey, else be condemned.
---Eloy on 11/18/10


When I read some of the blogs, I know I must go study more and more. There is only one interpretation of the Holy Bible but lots of applications.
---shira3877 on 11/18/10


\\Either way,Jesus has faith as we have faith.\\

Since Jesus is God Incarnate, in whom or what does He place faith now?

You can't say the Father, because Jesus KNOWS Him by immediate experience. He doesn't need to believe. "Faith is the substance of things unseen..."
---Cluny on 11/17/10


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Either way,Jesus has faith as we have faith.
Jesus's instructions was not to exercise faith in him but exercise faith in the Father and like wise when we pray,not to pray to him but if one did he will send this petition to the Father.
Considering that we know God exists in the person of Jesus and If someone has seen Jesus then also has seen God then regardless of how one may be confused about faith or petitions to our Deity it is all about our intent.
---earl on 11/17/10


Gal 2:16
... we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ

I believe the words "faith OF Christ" point to the life he lived.

When we place our faith IN Christ, we receive the benefit of HIS faith in the Father. Its as though we had done those things ourself. He took the death we deserved and gives us the life He deserved.

That, my friends, is a beautiful gift from God. That is why Jesus Christ is worthy of all praise and I am very happy that the Father has given the Son all power in Heaven and Earth and has set Him over us in the judgement. He did pay for the sins of every man so He has definately earned the right to judge us.
---JackB on 11/17/10


Ah. What you are addressing is the "pistis Xristos" quandary.
pistis = faith
Xristos = Christ

In the original manuscripts the word "in" and "of" are not in the phrase "pistis Xristos". They are added for English translations. This is why some translations of this and other passages, say faith IN Christ while others say faith OF Christ.

If it was explicit, it would say "pistis en (in) Xristos" or "pistis ek (of) Xristos". But it doesn't say either one of these, so we put the preposition in it to make the literal pistis Xristos "faith Christ" a proper English prepositional phrase "faith in Christ" or "faith of Christ".
---Neil on 11/17/10


I ask this question to bring out a special point. The quote was,"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe." Notice the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ not faith IN Jesus Christ. The point I was trying to make has never been addressed. The term faith of Jesus Christ is used five times in the Bible. The significance of the fate of Jesus Christ is much greater than our fate in Jesus Christ. And it behooves us to pay attention to this distinction in our prayer life and our meditating life.
---mima on 11/17/10


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Concerning the term "faith of Jesus Christ". I have never heard a sermon about this term" fate of Jesus Christ" means.
What ever it means we can be certain it is perfect. And we are certain that our faith in Christ is flawed, is not perfect, therefore which do we want to approach the father with? There is a telltale statement in the Bible concerning the "fate of Jesus Christ" and it is this.

"Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me
"
---mima on 11/17/10


Mima, that verse says to all that BELIEVE. Notice it does not say "to all that say a sinner's prayer".

[Abraham] being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. This is why it was credited to him as righteousness. The words it was credited to him were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness - for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.(Romans 4:21-25)

Abraham was credited with righteousness when he was persuaded that God can do what He promised concerning our Redeemer. No prayer needed, just faith in Jesus.
---James_L on 11/17/10


This verse is in the middle of a sentence (and thought) between v21 and v23. Which are in the overall context of the chapter talking about trying to keep the Law as a form of righteousness.

"Even" is "what I'm referring to is" because he addresses righteousness in verse 21 and he's clarifying that the only true righteousness is granted of God by faith in Christ as opposed to righteousness derived from keeping the Law. It's something that's given to all those who believe - there is no distinction - Jew or Greek.

He follows by saying "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" driving his point home that keeping the Law will not result in salvation.

Can you clarify your point?
---Neil on 11/17/10


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