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God's Permissive Will

Do you believe God has a permissive will?

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 ---mima on 11/17/10
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Mark_V. on 11/27/10

Why did God curse man?
Because man deliberately disobeyed. God isn't sending anyone to hell because HE wills it. He is sending them to hell because they are disobedient on purpose! Righteous Judgement
God gave the 10 commandments to show man's sin. Man knows they are doing wrong. They know that if they would turn from sin and obey God, God would save them. Thats repentance. Jesus says repent then believe what he says. Believe he is the son of God sent to atone for the sins of the world not just an elect few. Man can't get rid of sin on their own. They must get into Christ 1st. To do that, they must acknowledge their sin & believe Christ. The spiritual things of Christ don't come until AFTER you're saved!
---ginger on 11/29/10

The death of Christ was "according to the eternal purpose which He (God) purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord" Eph. 3:11
---Mark_V. on 11/27/10

Exactly markv, God's ETERNAL purpose.

God predestined and forordained not Only that Christ would die for our sin, but that die would have to die to do that.

However markv, I or you are not Jesus Christ.

Gen - Rev is about Jesus Christ, and GOD's plan of salvation, drawing picture after picture so even the most ignorant, poorest, most uneducated SINNER could be saved. Then comes John Calvin and tries to undo it all. One now must have a PHD to understand that your god did not purpose in Christ before the foundation of the world that whosoever will may come.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/10

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God clearly did not WILL anyone to/perish hell.

Willing here as well as GOD's WILL is 1014 in strong and the same definition.

Now markv,did I say God planned evil? I said He didn't. MAN apart from God does evil. If man OBEYED God there would be NO EVIL.

MarkV, I need to correct you AGAIN, Jesus does not have three eyes. He is not a cyclopse. Why do you continue to say He does/is.How many times do I need to CORRECT you on this matter?
---kathr4453 on 11/28/10

Kathr, your wron again interpreting the Word of God as always.
You said:
"God did not WILL and PURPOSE the pervert next door to molest and get an 11 year old pregnant. God did not WILL and PURPOSE anyone to murder and molest your children."
Kathr, of course God did not. He allowed it or permitted it but man is responsible for what he does. God does not make them sin, but God knows they will. In the case of Jesus, God did not make Judas sin, he sinned because he wanted to. The sinful acts of men are included in this plan of God. They are foreseen, permitted and have their exact place. The death of Christ was "according to the eternal purpose which He (God) purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord" Eph. 3:11
---Mark_V. on 11/27/10

Kathr 2: You also said, and again just your opinions, that
"God did NOT "WILL" for any to perish, but we know many will."
If God did not will it, why are they going to hell? It was God who set the curse on mankind. And from that curse all of descendants of Adam are going to hell unless they believe by faith in Jesus Christ. And it is God who grants them that faith to believe through His word, and He does not grant that faith to everyone. If God will that everyone would be save then all would be save. So your opinion means beans concerning the Word of God. "Jesus answered him (Pilate), Thou wouldst have no power against Me, except it were given thee from above" John 19:11.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/10

God is deeply concerned that we take HIS word, which is sovereign, seriously.

However God is not concerned with His Sovereignty. He's concerned many twist His word, leading many astray.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/10

The Church of England's Thirty-nine Articles (originally 42) denies free-will and states that the doctrine of predestination is true. Not that I'm an Anglican though.

Doctor Thomas Cranmer was a worthy martyr.

Source: Iohn Foxe's book, The Actes and Monuments of Martyrs 1583 publication
---Kev on 11/26/10

aka ... Yes it does. See my earlier post.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/26/10

//Ultimately, man will be held accountable for his actions that has been willed and purposed by the Almighty God.
---christan on 11/18/10

This is totally wrong. God did not WILL and PURPOSE the pervert next door to molest and get an 11 year old pregnant. God did not WILL and PURPOSE anyone to murder and molest your children.

Man sin's because he is drawn away BY HIS OWN lust and evil desire in his heart. DON'T blame GOD.

God did NOT "WILL" for any to perish, but we know many will.

If God is not the author of confusion, He is Not the author of evil.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/10


His will grants us permission to go against his will in a very concrete sense coz we can anytime be terminated by God if he so chooses to. That is how he honors our decisions which will also give Him the legitimate rights to justly punish us when the time is ripe. There is nothing outside God's purview. We can't even go against him without him "allowing" us. And we might actually fulfill his desire for justice that way. Apart from permissive will there is another will he has for our good and it would be worthwhile to invite that will for ourselves rather than his 'permissive will'.
---hop on 11/26/10

uk alan,

i appreciate what you are saying. however, isn't that to which you refer called free will?

I think Donna5535 is correct. The concept of "permissive will" sounds godly, but when an established concept like free will is repackaged, it usually means there are other strange concepts pulling in the undertow.
---aka on 11/25/10

//Ultimately, man will be held accountable for his actions that has been willed and purposed by the Almighty God.
---christan on 11/18/10

Hahah did you really just say that? Tell ya what, Christan. Im gonna drug you, convince you to kill the man that stole my wife from me, then reveal to you that Im a judge and send you to prison for doing exactly what I tricked you into doing.

Youre sense of justice is seriously twisted. And you would dare say that God Almight who is HOLY is like that?

No wonder you people are blind. Youve very likely already committed that which is unpardonable. You guys have evil and good completely bass ackwards.
---JackB on 11/25/10

aka ... I think it is more undderstandable if you use the word "allow" ... meaning "does not prevent" rather than "permit"

While forbidding us to do certain things, He does in fact allow us to.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/25/10

The Bible is deeply, concerned about the will of God-His sovereign authority. When we speak about God's will we do so in at least three concepts. The broader concept is known as God's decretive, sovereign, or hidden will. By this, theologians refer to the will of God by which He is sovereign and His will can never be frustrated, we can be sure that nothing happens over which He is not in control. He at least must "Permit" whatever happens to happen. Yet even when God passively permits things to happen, He chooses to permit them in that He always has the power and right to intevene and prevent the actions and events of this world. Insofar as He lets things happen, He has "willed" them in this certain sense.
---Mark_V. on 11/25/10

Permissive will?

His Will grants us permission to not follow His Will?

Then, doesn't that make His will our will?
---aka on 11/24/10

permissive will are the things which God has allowed / permited because of SIN, that are not sins, which would not be allowed in a sin free world.

they include but MAY not be limited to: eating animals, and having more than one wife.
---francis on 11/24/10

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Permissive will is what helps us understand God's sovereignty and goodness in the midst of so much rebellion all around: the rebellion of those who follow God and at times fail as well as those who reject him. In the case of the former God uses it to teach us lessons and His will/plan for us. In the case of the latter, he uses each person's choice to work out to God's own ends. Permissive will also helps us acknowledge the absolute responsibility for human choices that will merit their just punishments or rewards in the end.
---hop on 11/22/10

Well, I am going to put what I believe, although, I do not have a Scriptures to back me up. I'll put it anyways, cause, I am still saved. Now..... Yes, I believe that God does have a permissive will. We all get away with more than we think we do. Actually, God said something to me along those lines before. So, Hallelujah, and Amen. God at times will allow His people doing things which none-the-less, He may not approve. But, for whatever reason, He allows it. A WARNING for all Christians: This is no license, for you to become sloppy. God Will only put-up with so much. Do not push His patience.
---catherine on 11/19/10

Yes, I do believe God allowed Abraham to falter in taking Hagar to give birth to a child God promised Abraham and Sarah. That was not God's plan, but God allowed it. It wasn't God's PERFECT WILL.

But we know from that we can make a mess. Yet God can work in and through our messes.

Count it all joy when you fall into various trials. you know, some are sent by God, and others WE create ourselves by the same permissive will God allowed Abraham.
---kathr4453 on 11/19/10

There's no such thing as "God has a permissive will". He wills and purpose it to happen, period.

Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" 11 "Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

Does this even sound like "permissive" to you? Ultimately, man will be held accountable for his actions that has been willed and purposed by the Almighty God.
---christan on 11/18/10

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Genesis 1:29 I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed, to you it shall be for meat.

Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

2 Samuel 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom,
---francis on 11/18/10

I'm dead and foolish. Proud of it.
---Pharisee on 11/18/10

Whyb are the dead and foolish dead and foolish

Because according to predestination, God made them dead and foolish.

So God has created puppets just so He can "punish" them and cast them into Hell.

Just like a spoilt child.
---alan8566_of_UK on 11/18/10

God's will is perfect and He does as He pleases. The dead and foolish man can never ever believe this. And even then, it is His Sovereign will that the dead and foolish will not believe unless He shows mercy. Paul tells us of this in his teaching in Romans 9 about the vessels of honour and the vessels of dishonour that He has created for His own glory.

In all this, God is sovereign and man will be held accountable. And if any have a problem with this, Paul simply says - "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?" (Romans 9:19,20)
---christan on 11/17/10

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No because God is PERFECT in ALL His ways.

So if God is PERFECT, then His Will is perfect. EVERYTHING about God is PERFECT because He is PERFECT.

This is another false doctrine that went around the church many years ago and for a period of time, I had to think about it, then I found the scripture in Psalms that says, "All His ways are perfect."
---Donna5535 on 11/17/10

No. Mary made it simple when she said, "Whatever He says to you, do it." We either obey or disobey. Obedience carries us toward our destiny while disobedience carries us away from it. The super wonderful thing though is that Father God doesn't make us go back to the starting line when we miss Him. He just picks us up and says, "Go from here." It isn't about just you though. You may be carrying somebody's miracle. If you refuse to obey, they lose too.
---Linda on 11/17/10

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