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Only Teach From The Gospels

Through many years I noticed many Churches only teach and preach from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They claim to be Christian Churches, but they avoid teaching and preaching from the letters the Apostle Paul wrote to the Churches as if they are a type of plague. What are your thoughts?

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///Test the following verse, against what you have been taught.
(John 8:34)
"Everyone who sins, is a slave to sin."
Does your Church teach this?
What did the Light reveal?
---David on 11/27/10///

David
There is a definite conflict between that verse and what I have been taught in the
Southern Baptist church I attend. They believe what Jesus says, only they teach that those who are saved are no longer slaves to sin.Why would Paul have taught this if it were not true?
---Homer on 11/27/10


Could you give examples of this?
---homer on 11/25/10

Homer
What happens when you put a light into a room?
The darkness flees from the light, and that which was in the darkness, is revealed.
What happens, when you hold the Truth up to a False teacher?
The false teacher will flee from the Truth, because their teachings are revealed, by the Truth.
In the Gospels of Jesus Christ we have the Truth, a light in the darkness.

Test the following verse, against what you have been taught.
(John 8:34)
"Everyone who sins, is a slave to sin."

Does your Church teach this?
What did the Light reveal?







---David on 11/27/10


People try to follow Christ in His earthly ministry, which they can't, even the 11 couldn't.
Eph. 2:11-13 We were always on his mind, but we were not on the front burner.

What did Paul know?
1 Cor.2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

What does he tell us to do?
1 Cor. 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Cor. 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Phil. 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
---michael_e on 11/27/10


How can anything written about the RISEN CHRIST and our life united to HIS RISEN life as is what Paul, Peter, John James, Hebrews etc wrote about be consideered false?

Those who stay only in the 4 gospels will NEVER find their way THROUGH the Cross with Christ, and our life NOW on resurrection ground.

These are actually enemies of the Cross!

---kathr4453 on 11/26/10


homer //Could you give examples of this?

Paul taught that the believer is not under the law (as under a covenant of works) but under grace but then went on to say we do not have the freedom to sin. Romans 6, 7.

While God calls us to a perfection we cannot achieve (1 Peter 1:16f,Romans 7:20), we can be driven by a passion to be like Jesus, to work out our own salvation(Php. 2:12), and being pitched headlong into a frenzy of works righteousness, enough is never enough (Romans 3:23).

Believers, Paul taught may rest in Christ who is our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification & redemption. (1 Cor. 1:30)
---leej on 11/26/10




***Is there anything wrong in teaching Paul's letter's?
Absolutely Not!
If they are indeed what Paul actually taught.
The problem.... many Teacher's take Paul's letter's completely out of context, and this is evidenced by the fact that Many of these teaching's, are opposed to Christ's.
---David on 11/25/10***

Could you give examples of this?
---homer on 11/25/10


I believe that Iesus Christ was once offered, indeed a perfect sacrifice for sin. Perfect, truth it is, is perfect.

Iohn Foxe prayed... Lord, Reforme thy Church with perfecte doctrine and faithfull teachers, that we seeing our owne weakenesse, may put off our selues, and put on him without whom we can do nothing. So shall we stand strong, when nothing standeth in vs, but thy sonne alone, in whome thou art onely pleased.

This is my prayer request, as well.



(Underlined s, long s)
---Kev on 11/26/10


Paul takes responsibiity for their carnality. He said, I fed you only with MILK ( that's what babies drink/ not eat) and not with meat.

He thought they would choke on the meat of the words. In Chapter two, Paul is not laying again the foundation of salvation, he's establishing first the difference between our carnal mind and that of our Spiritual mind. Our two natures.

ONLY MEAT can transform our carnal minds to that of one spiritualy. We have the Mind of Christ when we are saved BUT we need to FEED that mind, and GROW in the Sprit.

Once we do, we no longer say...Oh, I'm this or that, or I only read that person, I only follow this one's teachings.

WRONG, once you GROW UP you ONLY follow Jesus Christ and HIS WORD.
---kathr4453 on 11/26/10


What we see with the Corinthians is that their 'moral depravity' often reflects what we sadly see in our churches today and we are in need of continual reform.
---leej on 11/25/10


I believe leej, the word should not be reform, but transform.

Their minds were still carnal, worldly. Only the Spirit of the Lord can CHANGE you from Glory to Glory. Only that conforming to HIS IMAGE can be done through Christ as we submit and surrender to Him.
---kathr4453 on 11/25/10


NOT ALL WERE SAINTS, for sure....The problems Paul faced in the church were complex and explosive. The factional spirit at Corinth was wrong because it represented an attitude that was incompatible with the gospel of Christ. It was also wrong because it represented a misunderstanding of the nature of the gospel. Paul>>> The Corinth had a haughty spirit [1 Corinthians 1:26-31]. Over in 2 Corinthians 10-13>>> Warnings to the Corinthians: Perhaps, I'll get back to you on more.
---catherine on 11/25/10




catherine //Because of the moral depravity, Corinth had spiritual needs.

It is interesting to note that the Apostle Paul refers to the Corinthians as 'saints'.

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

What we see with the Corinthians is that their 'moral depravity' often reflects what we sadly see in our churches today and we are in need of continual reform.
---leej on 11/25/10


Kathr .. I think & hope you and Mark are just misunderstanding each other?

John 1.1 says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God and the Word was with God" then in verse 14: "The Word became flesh"

You appear to use v.14 to prove to Mark that Jesus did not exist until 2000 years ago.

But verses 1 & 2 make it quite clear that Jesus did exist from ever, even though He may not have actually carried the name Jesus, nor been in physical human form.

But I have never considered the angels whose comings were recorded in the OT as being "just" angels (of whom God has many!) and not the Word making an appearance
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/25/10


Kathr ... Are you claiming that Jesus became murder, rape, theft, lies, adultery?

As Mark has said, Jesus became as if He was the murderer, the rapist, the thief, the adulter. And He was punished as if He had been them.

What you are saying that Jesus became all the evil (noun) there ever has been or ever will be? THat can't be ... He became evil (adjective) on our behalf, to take our punishment.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/25/10


Kathr, again you are wrong. It is written all over the Old Testament and in our theology, the Second Person of the Trinity is eternal. He did not come into existence when He was born. Mormons believe what you believe. The word "Logos" is the title given to Jesus Christ. The prologue of John's gospel is crucial for our faith and our Christological understanding of Christ. John wrote,
"In the beginning was the Word (Logos) and the Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word (Logos) was God." John 1:1. In this passages the Logos is both distinquished from God (was with God) and indentified with God (was God).
"And the Word (Logos) became flesh and dwelt among us"
---Mark_V. on 11/25/10


Kahtr 2: Christ (the Logos) is from all etenrity. And He did manifest Himself as the Angel of the Lord. He was not created angel, but manifested as an angel. As one of the principle "theophanies," It is important for many, maybe not you, to comfirm the preexistence of Christ, and revealing the ministry of God to men in the Old Testament period.
1. Christ as the Angel of Jehovah is indentified as Jehovah in numerous Old Testament passages. The Angel spoke to Hagar (Gen. 16:7-13). In the account of the sacrifice of Isaac (Gen. 27:15,18) Angel of God (Gen. 31:11-13) God the Angel (Gen. 48:15-16) (45:5) Jehovah (Ex. 13:21) angel of God Judges (6:11-23) and both angel of God and angel of Jehovah in (Judges 13:9-20).
---Mark_V. on 11/25/10


///Through many years I noticed many Churches only teach and preach from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They claim to be Christian Churches, but they avoid teaching and preaching from the letters the Apostle Paul.///

Did the Lord's twelve disciples teach from the letter's of Paul?
No!
And thousands were being saved, long before Paul wrote those letter's.

Is there anything wrong in teaching Paul's letter's?
Absolutely Not!
If they are indeed what Paul actually taught.
The problem.... many Teacher's take Paul's letter's completely out of context, and this is evidenced by the fact that Many of these teaching's, are opposed to Christ's.

---David on 11/25/10


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Because of the moral depravity, Corinth had spiritual needs. Corinth was a seaman's paradise and a moral cesspool. Divorce was running rampant. Prostitution plagued the streets, and the moral air was polluted with the luring aroma of sin. It was a famous city for all that debauched--[1] to corrupt [a person] [2] a bout of excessive self-indulgence in sensual pleasures. So it came about the inspiration for the catalogue of man's sin in Romans 1:18-32. [written by Paul while a guest of Gaius in this wicked city]--Paul came to Corinth in A.D. 51-after a very unfruitful evangelistic effort at Athens [Acts 17:16-34]...Itwas not with human wisdom but the gospel with which God built a thriving assembly in this heathen city.
---catherine on 11/24/10


18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

As you can see Jesus is NOT the. angel of the Lord. Jesus is separate from the angel of the Lord.
.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/10


I will say that whenever the Bible mentions Christ purging our sins, I envisioned him literally taking it from us, dying with it and purging it in the fires of hell where the word of God ***seems*** to indicate that He went for 3 days while he taught the spirits in "prison". 1 Peter 3:19

Whether or not Christ suffered THERE for our sins I do not know. The thought of it absolutely breaks my heart. I feel he suffered enough on that cross. I hope that wasnt the case but if He did I know it was only because the Father felt it was necessary.
---JackB on 11/24/10


Alan, Jesus was made sin for us. If anyone has an issue Please take it up with God. I didn't write the Bible. However I gave you what I believe it means.

Now as far as Jesus being the Angel of the Lord in the OT I totally disagree. God in the OT spoke to us through Angels/messangers as stated in Hebrews 1, and in these last days has spoken to US through His Son. It does not say that God spoke to us through the angel of the Lord who was my eternal Son either.

Just more nonsense MarkV wants to post. Now SDA, Mormons, ans JW all Believe Jesus was an angel and uses those verses MarkV must use to say He was.

We are told very clearly in John 1..The WORD became flesh...that's all there is to it!!There is NOTHING TO DEBATE.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/10


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To ignore what was revealed to Paul by the ascended Christ would be ignoring salvation
---michael_e on 11/24/10


Truth be told to everyone created by God - He has a plan and everything goes according to His will and purpose.

1. God was never going to glorify man made of dust because Christ was going to be glorified, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world..." (1 Peter 20)

2. Christ's death was predestined before He created the world as declared in the above verses.

3. Christ was to be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of His people in the atonement.

4. And in order for this to happen, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." (Romans 11:32)

What a wonderful and Holy plan of salvation. Praise and glory to the Lord Almighty.
---christan on 11/24/10


I agree one hundred percent with those churches that preach the words of Jesus instead of the words of Paul. John 17:8. The words of Jesus are the words of the Lord God Almighty who created the heavens and the earth. No one really knows for sure where Paul's words come from.

Also Jesus was the Passover Lamb. The Passover Lamb had NO sin (no blemish) on Him. Jesus did not die for your sins, He died to purchase a Kingdom. Read the Passover story again in Exodus 11 & 12.
---barb on 11/24/10


//Oh, well, they love to preach, love, love, love, Oh, Jesus loves everybody. I just don't get this from God.// --- catherine


How can you be reborn of the Holy Spirit and not get love from God? It even tells us when we are reborn that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts. If you dont feel that something is terribly wrong.

That might be why you experience such joy at the though of millions burning in hell. You have the wrong spirit.
---JackB on 11/24/10


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Katrr ... You say in is a noun (person, place) but not a verb (action)

Not in English English!!

Sin is a noun ... thing, or action that someone does.

It can also be a verb ... the doing (verb)of an action (noun)

It is certainly not the person who sins ... he is known as a sinner.

As I suggested earleir, this dispute seems to have arisen because we are all saying the same thing but in a different way. I'm glad you now understand what Mark was saying, although you still disagree with him about when Jesus became a human!
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/24/10


Jesus is the incarnate human. Was born of Mary as a man and given the name Jesus. "Christ" has alway been from all eternity. Since Jesus birth, His name has been and always will be Jesus Christ, He is human and He is God. The "Second person" of the Trinity. In the Old Testament He was the Angel of the Lord or the Angel of Jehovah, the second Person of the Trinity. The second Person is the visible God of the New Testament. Neither the Father nor the Spirit is characteristically revealed in bodily and visible man form. While the Fathers voice is heard from heaven, and the Holy Spirit is seen descending in the form of a dove, Christ, the second Person, is the full manifestation of God in visible form.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/10


Alan, that is semantics: Jesus became the sinner and he took full responsibility for sin. In otherwords, Jesus became Alan, Jesus became Eloy, Jesus became every single undone soul upon the cross in order to ransom us and to restore us back into the right relationship with God. How awesome is that! Holy God took your place upon the cross for you.
---Eloy on 11/24/10


Correction, Genesis 3:15.

Although all things have not yet been put under Him, the final fulfillment of Genesis 3:15 will be at the end of the 1000 year reign, when satan and death itself are thrown into the lake of fire.


In the NEW Heaven and earth right after, NOTHING EVIL/SIN will be able to ENTER IN.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/10


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I agree Kath. There can be no other reason the world gets darker and darker except there be an increasing manifestation or expression of falleness. However, Christ is the reason there is an increasing manifestation or expression of the FULLNESS of God in the church. Light always makes the greatest impact in darkness.
---Linda on 11/24/10


I haven't been in a christian church that ever avoided Paul's letters. On the contrary, I've been in churches that may have actually over-focused on Paul.
In Methodist churches I heard alot about the love and grace of God preached from Psalms and the NT.
In Baptist churches I alot heard alot about salvation preached from Pauls letters.
In Pentecostal churches I heard alot about the power of God preached from Acts & Revelation.
---AG on 11/24/10


Linda, here is another perpective on SIN.

Paul tells us in Thesselonians there is a MAN OF SIN, referencing the anti-christ.

The man of sin, anti-christ represents ALL humanity under the first Adam.

Christ, the Last Adam at Calvary ENDED our history in Adam held captive under the power of death by the man of SIN.Gen:3:16 and Hebrews 2!!

All those who worship anti-christ, and even those anti-christs we have today are under the headship of the OLD CREATION, satan, AKA the man of Sin.

MarkV, the more you talk the worse it gets. You LOOK for things not said, and again put words in people mouths they never said. Now there are those who have difficulty with your words...how does it feel?
---kathr4453 on 11/24/10


Eloy .. That is basically trhe same as I said.
But becoming s sinner is not the same as becoming a sin!
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/24/10


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//Kathr, again I have to correct you. Jesus has always been a man. And from the time man saw God through the incarnate Jesus in the flesh, He has always been a man. Christ has existed from all eternity.//---MarkV

I gasped....

Sorry thats not what my Bible teaches. Jesus was not always a man...

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil,

God is a spirit. (John 4:24)
---JackB on 11/24/10


Here is my answer again,
"Kathr, again I have to correct you. Jesus has always been a man. And from the time man saw God through the incarnate Jesus in the flesh, He has always been a man. Christ has existed from all eternity."
The first part, Jesus has always been a man. Means from the time He was born Jesus was a man.
Second, From the time man saw God incarnate, (Jesus ) He was always a man.
Third, (Christ) has always existed.
" Christ is indentified also with the Elohim of the Old Testament. In Isaiah 40:3, Christ is spoken of as both Jehovah and Elohim (Luke 3:4. In Isaiah 9:6-7 Christ is called Mighty God (Elohim)" Many more passage of Christ in the Old Testament.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/10


Eloy, you say

" Jesus literally became a murderer"

Do you have any Scriptures to that effect? I don't think you will find one. He never murdered anyone. Only people who murder are murderers. You are the murderer, and when it was time to pay for what you did, He died for you. And innocent sinless Person took your place. He died in your behalf. But He never literally became a murderer. You theology is going bunkers. The more you guys talk, the worse you get.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/10


The LOGOS is eternally begotten of and always with the Father. But only in TIME some 2000 years ago was He made flesh and known as Jesus--and His human nature REMAINS untied to His diving Nature.
---Cluny on 11/23/10


Cluny, that may be a little sloppy too.

The Logos/WORD was not Begotten of the Father Before He became flesh, who was then named Jesus, as His Only Begotten SON. His Begottenness was the moment the Holy Spirit overshaddowed Mary, 2000 years ago.

Jesus is the LOGOS/WORD correct, and the LOGOS/WORD was made flesh.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/10


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MarkV, after reading Eloy's last post I understand where you are coming. I have never heard that one before. It appears you have. I agree 100% with you that ELOY's last statement is incorrect. THAT is not the definition of SCAPEGOAT. The scapegoat takes the blame and ounshment of others. The scapegoat does not become the actual thing he was blamed for.

Now I pray we understand one another on this issue.
---kathr4453 on 11/24/10


Cluny, I am not quite sure why you quoted me and then asked me the question you did. I was referring to Alan's argument that sin denotes behavior and not a person, place, or thing. The use of the word "sin" in 2 Cor.5:21 is noun (person, place, or thing), not verb (action). I believe the Word in the beginning became flesh and was called Jesus, the visible expression of God, the fullness of God in bodily form. I believe He was made to be sin and fully received in Himself the full wrath of God. God does not say things falsely or see things as imaginary. When He says someone is made something, he is. It was all a legal and just transaction.
---Linda on 11/24/10


\\Out of over one hundred uses in the new testament alone, only 17 refer to an action (264 and 265) and one to an adjective (341).\\

How many times does the Bible have to say something in order for it to be true, Linda?

**When you say Jesus has always been a man, do you mean He was a human before He can to earth 2000 years ago?**

I've noticed that many Protestants are sloppy in their Christology.

The LOGOS is eternally begotten of and always with the Father. But only in TIME some 2000 years ago was He made flesh and known as Jesus--and His human nature REMAINS untied to His diving Nature.
---Cluny on 11/23/10


Yeah I agree with you Linda that at times the word sin can take on different meaning based on context.

As in Hebrews 10:26...

The first "sin" in the verse is obviously speaking of following the law of sacrifices and rejecting Jesus Christ. If we commit this sin we no longer reap the benefit of his sacrifice which pays the penalty for our daily sins.

I have in the past (as many still do) been guilty of using this verse out of context using it to condemn those who still struggle with sin as believers teaching them that daily sins make us ineligible for the sacrificial blood of Christ. A lot of legalistic Christians still do this.
---JackB on 11/23/10


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Alan, Jesus whom was Innocent, accepted the full penalty for sin, he literally became a murderer for murderers, a liar for liars, a thief for thieves, an infidel for infidels, every single known and unknown sin of mankind, and then he nailed all these sins in his body to the tree and was sent to hell for sin. Only a spotless and perfect subject could make the substitutionary exchange of a holy saint's life for an unholy sinner's: else the sacrifice would not be acceptable to God, and instead of appeasing God, mankind would remain in their sins and rightly be condemned to hell. He understood the full impact of his ssacrifice, and the death penalty, for he sweated drops of blood in the garden beforehand.
---Eloy on 11/23/10


Sin (greek 266) is a noun. Out of over one hundred uses in the new testament alone, only 17 refer to an action (264 and 265) and one to an adjective (341). I challenge you to replace every instance of "sin" found in Romans 6 with "wrong behavior". You will find there is no way you could be called a saint, even though Paul makes it clear that believers are called such.
---Linda on 11/23/10


Mark ... When you say Jesus has always been a man, do you mean He was a human before He can to earth 2000 years ago?

I have never viewed Him as that. I beleive Jesus always existed as The Son, or The Word, as one part of the triune God.

But the first reference in the Bible to Him being a human is surely at the beginning of Johns gospel, where it says the Word became flesh ... i.e. became human.

I've always thought of Jesus being still there & here (always has and always will be) but not as a human man with a physical body except for those 30 years.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/23/10


I see this way. I murder someone. I am tried and convicted and sentenced to death. Someone stands in my place, and takes the penalty of my crime, and is sentenced to death in my place. Because that person paid the penalty, I am set free.

The WORD who is God became flesh so that he could die in the flesh, and take our place in the judgement of death we inherited from original sin. The only hope of Life was for the penalty of sin to be paid. Christ, who is God incarnate paid the sin debt,as ONLY God could do,not man and God accepted His sacrifice in our place offering mankind life back from a state of eternal death and damnation. His risen Life is what gives us life again, called born Again. His Blood has justified us legaly before God.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


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Mark/Kathr/Eloy/ & myself .... We seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill!

I don't think any of us would disagree with what Eloy has said in his latest post ... Jesus took our sin on his shoulders and paid the penalty for all our sins. Nothing Mark has said is in conflict with that.

The problem we use our own differing terminology to express the same thing!

MY background as a grammarian leads me to agree with Mark that Jesus a person could not literally become sin, which is an action.

But we know what the Bible means when it says Jesus became sin ... it means all that Eloy has just given us. Unless you understand that meaning, the words are meaningless!!
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/23/10


MarkV, learn what "sacrifice" and "scapegoat" mean. Innocent Christ became the living sacrifice for others, he took the sins of his people upon himself, and he paid the price for their sins, which is death. Let me illustrate, it is like this, a killer breaks into you house and points a gun at you in order to kill you, but Jesus acts and purposely stands in front of you and the killer in order to take the bullet so that you may live. The killer is a ravenous wolf, and God took one pefect Lamb and set him aside for the wolf to tear up in order to spare his flock. And because the sin Christ bore in his body upon the tree was not his own sin, but was the sin of others, hell was not legally able to hold him.
---Eloy on 11/23/10


Kathr, again I have to correct you. Jesus has always been a man. And from the time man saw God through the incarnate Jesus in the flesh, He has always been a man. Christ has existed from all eternity. He is link with the name Jehovah in many passages before His incarnate.
"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication, then they will look on Me whom they pierced" Zech. 12:10. And again in 1 Cor. 1:30,
"Christ is declared to be "Jehovah our righteousness" The fact that Jehovah was used of Jesus Christ is most significant as it affirms that Jesus Christ is worthy of the most ineffable name of God used in Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/10


MarkV fails to understand Jesus the same yesterday today and toorrow. YESTERDAY, that is before His incarnation Jesus was NOT in the flesh. Jesus was not a man from the beginning, unless you are a Mormon MarkV, as that is what Mormons say, Jesus and God were always man.

Jesus took on Him the seed of Abraham, was made in the flesh so that... what MarkV, read Heb 2.

The same YTT means His charactor never changes.

However Jesus came IN THE FLESH so that In HIS FLESH, our sin was laid on his flesh, and in his flesh he died. NOW our flesh is identified, in order for us to identify with His crucified flesh to be able to die to sin in the flesh, and are raised up with Him in the Spirit. This is the power of the Cross.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


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Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

1 Peter 1:18 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers," 19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" 20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world..."
---christan on 11/23/10


\\You are giving support to the Catholics who speak that they eat the body of Christ flesh, and drink His blood. They also took those passages literally. \\

So do Orthodox, Non-Chalcedonians, Assyrian, Anglicans, Lutherans, and some Methodists.

It's only a minority of Protestants who deny the the truth of Jesus's words and substitute traditions and precepts of men for Jesus.
---Cluny on 11/23/10


Eloy, I was hoping you did not answer, for I thought you knew better then to think in your mind that Jesus literally became sin. He nature never changes, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. If He turned to sin, He would need a Savior to save Him. It's all garbish from the pits. When you take a passage literally, you better be prepared to face many challenges. For you will not only change the Trinity, but the very nature of Christ. He was imputed the sins of all those who believe, but He never literally became sin. You are giving support to the Catholics who speak that they eat the body of Christ flesh, and drink His blood. They also took those passages literally. No one eats His flesh, and He never turned to sin. just nonesense.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/10


kathr4453 and MarkV, Yes, Christ became sin, he took our own sins upon himself and was nailed to the cross. Please Read- Num.21:4-9+ Jn.3:14,15. "For God has made Christ sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. For the wages of sin, death. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, but he did not open his mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. My God, my God, how have you scapegoated me, and are far from my salvation, the words of my groaning. For you will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption." II Cor.5:21+ Rm.6:23+ Is.53:7+ Ps.22:1+ 16:10.
---Eloy on 11/23/10


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Kathr, why do you not let it go? You do great when you answer others, why get in a mess answering me? It only causes you to sin. It's obvious you have a grib with me. So do some others. You do well to let it go. Speak Truth always, don't make lies about me. That I do not believe in Jesus or that I don't believe witnessing to others and so forth. They are lies that only cause you to add to your list. Find some common ground. For you just won't stop on your attacks on me, with slanderous remarks so I answer you with Scripture and tell you not to strip Christ of His deity and why it is wrong. You can tell me when I am wrong by showing me Scripture so that I can at least look it up. I am always willing to put this aside Kathr. It's all up to you.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/10


MarkV, so what makes you think I said anything different. I never said Jesus became a rock, or wine or anything else.

I'm glad you understand what it means when scripture states Christ became sin for us.

Those are words right out of scripture. I did not tweek or put in my own words. You are the one who put your own twist on it and then disagreed with your own twist.

I'm glad we can agree!
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


All sixty-six books in the Holy Bible are One in Jesus Christ. The epistles written by Paul, Peter and John were revelations from the Holy Spirit of what the teachings of Christ and the prophets of old were representing. And John in the last book of Revelation 22:18,19 warned and declared,

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
---christan on 11/22/10


Kathr, you want to win something that you cannot. You cannot, because you cannot change the deity of Jesus Christ, no matter what you say. He was our substitute, He paid for our sins, He bore our sins. He was our sin bearer. He paid the debt we owed God for rebelling against Him. "But He never became sin Himself. Never." Matt. 26:39 "this cup" is the symbol of divine wrath against sin in the Old Testament. The next day Christ would "bear the sins of many" Heb. 9:28. The fullness of divine wrath would fall on Him. This was the price of the sin He bore, and paid it in full. As I said before He never turned into a rock, His blood never turned into wine, He is the same yesterday today and forever.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/10


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Kathr ... I am with Mark on this.

I find the concept of Christ "becoming sin" bizarre, even though the Bible actually uses the words.

Sin is a thing we do. It is an action. Like murder, or anger, or falsehood. A person cannot become a thing.

The punishment is meted out on those who DO these things, not on the thing itself. A murderer is punished, not the murderer. If I an ungenerous to someone, I am punished, the meaness can't itself be punished, because it is past and gone.

So I think J'esus became sin' is a turn of phrase, not literal, signifying that Jesus becomes as if He were the murderer, and so bears the penalty for our sins.
---alan8566_of_UK on 11/22/10


Eloy, please explain to MarkV that Christ became sin for us. Explain to him teh concept of the scapegoat. I know you understand it. Anyone else, please too explain to MarkV. he is calling God a liar.

If Christ did not bare your sin in his own body MarkV, you are still and will always be in your sin.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


Eloy, I am with you on this one. I too have heard of some just teaching from the gospels but that in itself is not enough to learn God's Truth. The four Gospels describe the Person of Jesus Christ who is the heart of the gospel(1 Cor. 15:1-4, 2 Peter 1:16) They are not a doctrinal exposition of the gospel, although occasional expository notes are found. The four Gospels are rather feature potraits of the most unique personage ever to walk the paths of earth, descibed differently by each writer.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/10


I have not heard of this type of restrictive teaching. The reason for this may simply be because there are more words from Christ (displayed in red-lettering in many Bibles) recorded in the gospel from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, then there are in Paul's epistles.
---Eloy on 11/22/10


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Rob, I understand what you are saying.

What Jesus spoke in the Gospels was what was to come to pass. Some has, and some has not. Many us is as a form of religion rather than how it is to be used.

Paul writes in Romans 9-11, what will come to pass spoken in Matthew.

Paul explains more fully the Gospel of Grace spoken in John and especially John 17. Jesus prayed before His death for His Church in John 17, and Paul was given more revelation as to what John 17 fully meant..I IN THEN that we all may be ONE, is only to and about the CHURCH.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


I don't know where you got this idea, Rob.

There seems to be a GREAT deal of ignorance on these blogs about what Our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ actually said about certain subjects.
---Cluny on 11/21/10


2 TIMOTHY 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of GOD and IS PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
---RICHARD on 11/21/10


Rob,
Matt through John are good for our learning as paul says(Rom 15:4) but it sure would have been rough on a Gentile during that period.
I don't understand in this present dispensation, how one goes to the four gospels to find salvation as they are under Law.
---michael_e on 11/20/10


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Catherine, I agree with your statement very much. The god that has been created is a god of only love. As if He owes salvation to everyone. He owes nothing to no one. The fact is that when Jesus prayed to the Father He prayed for His own and not for the world. He showed no love for the Pharisees and false teachers and the wicked. His ministry was also filled with the wrath of God to come. He spoke more about hell then anyone else in Scripture. So I agree with your statement very much.
---Mark_V. on 11/20/10


Don't let others spoil your faith and joy with their philosophies, their wrong and shallow answers built on men's thoughts and ideas, instead of on what Christ has said. For in Christ there is all of God in human body, so you have everything when you have Christ, and you are filled with God through your union with Christ. He is the highest ruler, with authority over every other power.

Since the new testment of the bible didn't exist at the time of Christ, what was Christ teaching? From the old testament, of course. And what scriptures were the Bereans searching? Again, from the old testament. Everything spoken of by Christ can be found in the old testament.
---Steveng on 11/18/10


Oh dear ... So Jesus go it wrong in all those things He said about love!
---alan8566_of_UK on 11/18/10


Oh, well, they love to preach, love, love, love, Oh, Jesus loves everybody. I just don't get this from God. And it's a false doctrine, just as sure as I am setting here typing....These preachers had better get into the Old Testament, and tell these people the truth, what's gonna happen to them, if Jesus chooses not to save them. Yea. Ah, Jesus.
---catherine on 11/18/10


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A true church will teach from both OT & NT & not just the gospels. Jesus is the foundation,yes, however he came to teach his fathers word and at that time they only had the OT, so now following Jesus the churches chould teach the whole bible.
---candice on 11/18/10


Rom.15:8 tells us what Christ was doing in his earthly ministry.
2Pet.3 probably explains the avoidance of pauline doctrine
Eph.4:5 Paul says one baptism, which goes aganst traditional belief
1 Cor 15:1-4 Paul says salvation based on belief, which goes against traditional belief of begging for forgiveness.
etc. etc.
---michael_e on 11/18/10


\\Where are the Elijah's of God who can teach the Word?
---Donna5535 on 11/18/10\\

Ignatius and I have mentioned the main place, Donna.
---Cluny on 11/18/10


Rob, even worse than what you are saying, is the fact that they THINK they're teaching and all they're doing is telling stories.

I went to this church from 1986 to 1989 and the Pastor gave stories of how his wife was in labor and the smartest thing he could think to say to her was "Breathe."

How does that minister Spirit and Life?

I left the church and sure enough went to another one and the same thing happened.

Where are the Elijah's of God who can teach the Word?
---Donna5535 on 11/18/10


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The Lord said that man shall live by every word of God. Not just the gospels.
The word also says that any man that is trained in the Lord is as a scribe that brings things out of his house both old and new. Both testaments.
There must be two witnesses in everything. The old testament and the new.
The new testament is the open evidence of the purchase of the possession and the old is the hidden evidence of the purchase of the possession.
The new bears witness to the old and is a second witness as well.
---Frank on 11/18/10


This one of the reason why I am Orthodox! All of our liturgical services are heavy in the Scriptures (especially the Gospels and the Epistles) (whether directed or indirectly) and we proclaim God's word (all of it) uncorrupted. Praise the Lord!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/17/10


Not in my experience.

However, for liturgical and homiletic purposes, the four Gospels have always had a preeminent place in the traditional pre-Reformation churches.
---Cluny on 11/17/10


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