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How To Study Scriptures

When studying Scripture along with having the desire to know the true context which scripture is written, I believe the best way to do this is by asking and answering the questions. WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, and TO WHOM. What are your thoughts?

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 ---Rob on 11/19/10
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francis //Where in the world have you ever heard or read in any adventist literatire that "Satan became the sin bearer, not Christ."

All you need to do is to go read the Great Controversy by Ellen White. You have a nasty habit of not reading the post by myself and others, prefering to accuse others that disagree with you as doing the work of Satan. Exposure does that to those who bear false teachings.

According to Rev. 12:10 it is Satan that stands before God and continually accuses of the brethren and 1 John 2:9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.

So if you are wrong in your judgment of others would that not mean you are still in darkness and even a follower of Satan?
---leej on 11/23/10


//So Hell was never made for people. Hell was made by God for the devil and his angels. Only satan and his angels had to be punished for sin. For the rest of the world God gave his son.

So all mankind will be saved?

Hell is only a temporary holding place for the damned who will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire along with Satan, the false prophet and their followers.Rev. 20:14

Re 20:15 And if anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Perhaps deep down you are really a Mormon as they have no hell but 3 main heavens.

Poor soul, you are so very confused having been trapped too long under the skirts of Ellen White.
---leej on 11/23/10


kathr4453 - I think MarkV has chosen to ignore you as he is not responding to your posts.

I understand that you have a problem with Calvinism, believing MarkV to be one. But in studying Calvinist, no one is really sure what they really are. According to Chosen But Free by Norman Geisler, there is the Extreme Calvinist, the moderate and so forth. In fact, he even has a chapter entitled "Was Calvin a Calvinist". The book is well worth the reading.

So the bottom line is that it is best not to attach labels to others since we really can not be sure what Calvinism really is or to what extent one subscribes to those beliefs.
---leej on 11/23/10


However, in Adventists mythology, Satan became the sin bearer, not Christ.

Perhaps Francis will help us out here in explaining their belief.
---leej on 11/22/10

Do you ever THINK before you post?
Where in the world have you ever heard or read in any adventist literatire that "Satan became the sin bearer, not Christ."

I can honestly understand you desire not to obey God, after all, if for one day you obeyed God, you would NEVER LIE. And I and most people on this site, can see you work on behalf of satan as clear as day.
---francis on 11/23/10


YOU filled in the blanks with your non-sense. It's a habit here with you mark, and is probably responsible for 99% of any arguments people have with you. You accuse people of saying things THEY NEVER SAID!
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10

I don't agree with you much but....Your remarks here are noted and confirmed. His desire to be a teacher overwhelms his ability to stick with truth/fact.

When his stand is in scriptural decay (every post now) he makes magnificent specualtions and drives it until it goes off the cliffs of ignorance.

Psychospeak he gets stronger if he thinks his target is weaker. Scriptural bird of prey.
---Trav on 11/23/10




LINE UPON LINE. STUDY ON HELL

For what reason, did God create hell.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
ANSWER: devil and his angels

So Hell was never made for people. Hell was made by God for the devil and his angels. Only satan and his angels had to be punished for sin. For the rest of the world God gave his son.

John 3:16
1 John 2:2
Genesis 3:14
Genesis 3:15
---francis on 11/23/10


MarkV, i know this may sound mean, but why do you spend so much time here continuing to argue what seemed to be settled. Often I imagine you in a mental hospital who is allowed to PLAY on the computer.

There is something seriously wrong with you mentally Your replies are often imaginary and your twisting of others words, not just mine are imaginary. This is a serious mental condition you need to seek help for, if not already.

Please get help MarkV.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


MarkV, I'm not catholic and therefore did no such thing. BECAUSE you use to be catholic, YOU imagined I was giving a catholic definition. STOP accusing me of something I NEVER said. What you did is PROJECT on me YOUR understanding. If you can prove I used the catholic definition and prove I said what you seem to imagine I said,then by all means PROVE IT, and post where I said it, or else STOP and just apologize for your blunder.

I won't argue this with you again.

SIN separated us from God. SIN is falling short. So it depends on what one sees as the definition of SIN, not SINS. Jesus was not made SINS for us. He was made DEATH for us.

Jusus was not made a gambler for us, or a drunk for us...and I never said HE was.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


Q: How to study the Scripture?

A: John 3:3 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." 7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

John 16:13 "When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
---christan on 11/23/10


If "sin" is defined as behavior only, then I challenge you to substitute the words "wrong behavior" for every instance of the word "sin" found in Romans 6 alone. Out of the 112 times sin is used in the NT, only 18 of them refer to the behavior (verb~Gr. 264, 265). The rest, with the exception of Gr.361 found in John 8:7, refer to the nature of sin (noun~Gr.266). Sin is a nature. Behaviors do not denote propensity or tendency toward a nature. The behavior is the fruit not the root. Just as a sinner can do good and it won't make him a righteous man, a righteous man *can* commit a sinful behavior and it won't make him a sinner.
---Linda on 11/23/10




Sinners sin. Saints "saint". It is a heart matter. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. He will act in accordance to his conviction of the new creation truth.
---LindaS on 11/23/10


Jerry, leej is correct. There is a thread here discussing this very thing. Many professing SDA's agree that satan was the scapegoat. Christ is teh scapegoat.

Christ took OUR SIN and died in OUR PLACE so that IN HIM we have His Life and His Righteousnes at work in us.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


Kathr, Jesus never became sin Himself. You took that passage literally. Just like the Catholics take the passage about the body of Christ and the blood of Christ literally. Jesus does not become sin at any time. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is alway the Son, and always God. God never turns to sin. The Son never turns to sin. "His sinlessness is a fundamental necessity for our salvation. Had Christ not been the "Lamb without blemish" He not only could not have secured anyone's salvation, but would have needed a Savior Himself."
You are now preaching another cult teaching. Trying your best to change the nature of God as they do. Sorry, but I cannot apologize for giving you the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/10


MarkV, again, I am pleased YOU undeerstand 2 Cor 5, Isaia 53, and Peter. What I really need you to do is apologize for putting words in our mouth accusing us of saying something ONLY YOU SAID. None of us even stated what your imagination came up with.

I still do not need a lecture on your creative imagination imagining in your imagination that I said anything other than what scripture stated. YOU filled in the blanks with your non-sense. It's a habit here with you mark, and is probably responsible for 99% of any arguments people have with you. You accuse people of saying things THEY NEVER SAID!

Just apologize MarkV, be a man!
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


\\Lee: "However, in Adventists mythology, Satan became the sin bearer, not Christ."

You are one sick, twisted freak! Where did you get an idea like that? I guess that's what a religion based on hate will do for you.
---jerry6593 on 11/23/10\\

I've seen it in their own literature, jerry.

This is just ONE of the reasons why when SDAs embrace Orthodoxy, they are received by canonical baptism.

The Saturday issue is the LEAST of their problems.
---Cluny on 11/23/10


jerry //You are one sick, twisted freak! Where did you get an idea like that?

The one who was sick and spend much time in sanitariums was Ellen white.

The idea expressed by her that Satan was the sin bearer is found on page 422 of the Great Controversy concerning who will be the scapegoat.

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. ...."

Instead of becoming angry at others, try reading the junk Ellen White put out and verify these things for yourself.
---leej on 11/23/10


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Please print. Thank You

Alan I believe 2 Cor 5 Paul is talking about the POWER of the Cross. The NEW Creature.The thought of verse 21 begins at least with verse 17. I don't think Paul is laying down the elementary principles of Justification or imputed Righteousness. So one must read the whole of 2 Cor 5,to understand that IN CHRIST, we are righteous, the New Creature is LITERALLY Righteous IN CHRIST. But in order to really understand and APPLY that truth, one MUST understand Romans 6 and see what God says concerning US, Adam 1, Sin and Righteousness.

---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


Kathr ... No ... I am not literally Righteousness. That is a state of being. I am a person.

Sin is a thing one does. It is not a person.

The media might say "Joe Soap IS baseball" meaning he is the greatest baseball player today. But he is not literally baseball.

Turns of phrase! I know what they mean, but they are not literal
---alan8566_of_UK on 11/23/10


Lee: "However, in Adventists mythology, Satan became the sin bearer, not Christ."

You are one sick, twisted freak! Where did you get an idea like that? I guess that's what a religion based on hate will do for you.
---jerry6593 on 11/23/10


Kathr, if you had read the context of 2 Cor. 5: you would know that the topic talked about here is that God the Father using the principle of imputation (v. 19) treated Christ as if He were a sinner, though He was not, and had Him die as a substitute to pay the penalty for sins of those who believe in Him (Isa. 53:4-6, Gal. 3:10-13, 1 Peter 2:24). On the cross, He did not become a sinner (as some suggest) but remained as holy as ever. He was treated as if He were guilty of all the sins ever committed by all who would ever believe, though He committed none. The wrath of God was exhausted on Him and the just requirement of God's law met for those for whom He died.
---Mark_V. on 11/23/10


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Recently on another thread Linda quoted that verse. MarkV reviled her too, then Jackb quoted, then I did..right out of the KJV, and others as well, all MarkV did was go off reviling everyone. Oh but aren't we those who MarkV reviles on everything, not because we lie, but because we are kathr4453, JackB, Linda or anyone else MarkV doesn't like.

Maybe NEXT TIME MarkV, rather than making up your own vesion of what a verse says, ASK if your version is what we meant.

None of us said Jesus became a rock, wine, bread, etc.

If you promise to do that, I KNOW there will be less arguing on line.

So let's start doing that. OK MarkV!
---kathr4453 on 11/23/10


I heed very closely and carefully the teachers that the Lord has given His church.
(being a research analyst by profession has really helped)

When are you going to become a student of God's word and catch up with the rest of us?
---leej on 11/22/10

Well sweetnlow, you submit under false men...who apparently study/obey precepts of men. As you stated above.
Research analyst...hmmm. Yet you've missed GOD's marriage? You missed his Divorce? His covenants? You very well may miss the remarriage boasting of skills that aren't apparent and certainly are not applicable or eatable as meat here.
Join a church? Jezzies an false shepherds are in their boxes....my Eklesia will be outside with widows an orphans.
---Trav on 11/23/10


leej. Thank you for supporting scripture. Interestingly, that was from a calvinistic web site. I was curious as to what MarkV would say. Again, I don't believe even MarkV knows what calvists believe. Some issues calvinists are right on, and here they are.


Anyway, we see in 2 cor 5 the remaing verse states SO THAT we can become the rightwousness of God IN HIM.

I guess MarkV and Alan, you are not LITERALLY the righteousness of God in Christ.

OK, then stop saying you are MarkV!!
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


Please print this one. Thank you.

MarkV, I have done nothing but quote scrpture. You took that scripture and put your own twist to it, and made it say something that was never said. Now you want to agree with it when it is explained more fully. Wonderful. However now we have Alan who still didn't get it and thinks I reiterated what you both originally could not agree with. Those are God's words,not mine.

Literally scripture states Christ became sin FOR US so that we can become teh righteousness of God in Christ...

Alan, do you also believe we are not literally teh righteousness of God in Christ??.....
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


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//Donna66, the Gospel is based on the FACT that Christ became sin for us. Therefore to deny that is to admit you know nothing about the Gospel we preach to the lost.//

---kathr4453 on 11/22/10

I NEVER DENIED IT... nor would I! (Where did you get the idea that I did?)
---Donna66 on 11/22/10


Kathr ... I'm with Mark here.

The words "Christ became sin" although in the Bible, don't mean that literally. A person cannot become an action.

Between Mark and you and me there is sometimes anger. That is a sin. But Jesus did not and does not become that anger. Jesus cannot become the sin of the Holocaust.

Jesus carries our sins of anger, and the sins of those who repented of the Holocaust.

That's what "Jesus became sin" means
---alan8566_of_UK on 11/22/10


//Christ's holiness was never marred by becoming the sin-bearer.

I believe virtually all Biblically oriented genuine Christians believe that is totally true.

2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

However, in Adventists mythology, Satan became the sin bearer, not Christ.

Perhaps Francis will help us out here in explaining their belief.
---leej on 11/22/10


Kathr, every time you speak gives evidence you know nothing about Calvinist or the Bible. Calvinist like everyone else are commanded to bring the good news to all who will hear. For no one knows who the elect are, They are out there lost with everyone else. They need to hear the Word of God which brings life, ( God is the Holy Spirit ), the Gospel of their salvation, they need to believe in the Gospel Truth, and need to repent when they hear the Gospel Truth. Don't you know anything? You go around making false accusations about me and others, teaching blasphemous remarks against Christ, and stripping Him of His deity with every word you say, all nothing but opinions and slanderous cultic remarks with no substance to them. Ignorant of the facts.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/10


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Kathr, you now change your story around. Makes a big difference when you say He bore our sins and was charged for them, then what you said before that "He became sin."

For "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever" Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines" ( Heb. 13:8,9).

When you speak about Christ, God, the Father, and the Spirit you don't know what you are saying.
When you say, God cannot reach down from the holy of holies to save anyone, you not only restrict God of not been able to do something, but that He is confined to one space. God is not only Omnipotent, who can do as He wills, but is Omniscience who is everywhere.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/10


trav //Well,the Prophets and apostles are not your context as apparent. So it is your own context.

I heed very closely and carefully the teachers that the Lord has given His church. As such, I doubt that any doctrine of the church has not been fully studied.

However, since I have been a student of the Bible for only 50 years and have taken formal courses in it, I can truly claim that I am still on a learning curve as the Lord continues to speak to me in a variety of ways, primarily thru His word. (being a research analyst by profession has really helped)

When are you going to become a student of God's word and catch up with the rest of us? Ever think about joining a church that is Biblically oriented?
---leej on 11/22/10


Christ's holiness was never marred by becoming the sin-bearer. Christ never sinned, a perfect "man", is the only sacrifice for sin that God the Father would accept. Jesus was innocent of any sin, yet bore our sins and was charged for them,went to Calvary and suffered the death and shame we deserved. God the Father treated Him as a sinner, and even caused Christ to cry out, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" God the Father had to pour out His full wrath on Christ the sinless one. If Christ actually had any sin on His soul then God the Father could not have accepted His death as a perfect sacrifice, thus no resurrection, and no hope for us. Christ is the sinless and Holy One in whom we have the hope of our salvation.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


Donna66, the Gospel is based on the FACT that Christ became sin for us. Therefore to deny that is to admit you know nothing about the Gospel we preach to the lost.

What exactly are you preaching then?
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


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PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT:

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

In the above CONTEXT what about God does not change?

Psalms 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

In the above CONTEXT what about God does not change?

Above we have two text about the UNCHANGING GOD, in each context it is something different that does not change.

So now we have precept upon precept ( in this case the precept is UNCHANGING GOD)
The CONTEXTS are very different but the precept are the same.
---francis on 11/22/10


Study aides help as well. For instance I am with the biblestudents (those whom stuck with CTRussell & not leaving like those whom become Jw's & left the teachings) & we still use the Studies in the Scriptures the 6 volumes (7)if including the tabernacle in the wilderness.
Each voulme breaks doen the scriptures of what they mean. Some chronicallogical etc..
We also use the bible commentaries going over bible verses. this is helpful too along side our bible (KJV or other translations) Also my former Southern baptist church used alot of lifeway books for their SundaySchool classes that went over topical lessons. this can work too.
---candice on 11/22/10


Kath
//Maybe that is WHY Calvinists do not preach the gospel to the lost to begin with.//

Correction. Calvinists DO preach the Gospel to the lost here and abroad. Please don't make accusations unless you can back them up with facts.
---Donna66 on 11/22/10


Kathr, I do not get where you come out with what you say but I believe it is because I try to correct you when you make blasphemous statements about Christ, and salvation.
"MarkV denies that Christ became sin for us,"
Christ never became sin. He was and still is holy, and without sin. He never turned to a piece of bread, or a rock, or become sin. In fact He is God who has no sin. His nature, character and attributes never change. Jesus Christ was sinless, the only human who ever was who died for our sins. How can Christ change to sin when the word of God says, God hates sin? Does the Father hate Christ? stop you rediculous statements against Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 11/22/10


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How can we be abraham seed ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE, WHICH IS IN ISSAC and not be JEWS?
---francis on 11/15/10

There were twelve distinct relatives of Judah, called....the Lost Sheep.
Judah was not Lost. The Nth house was.
Do you believe Christ was and will be the Bridegroom of New Covenant Heb 8:8 ?
(Most don't,avoiding these scriptures and the prophets like they were plagues)
Do you have marks/signs of your questions above...... on your heart. Heb 8:10, Jer 31:33.
Do you love truth, regardless of what GOD wants to do?
Or would you rather believe man made lies (doc's of professional confused men,showing no signs of "true" faith in GOD or his prophets)....like condescendalee for example.
---Trav on 11/22/10


Sorry Trav baby, but you really got that one wrong.

Hebrews 8:8f Behold, the days are coming,... And since he is in bondage to his denominational teachings, he does not think for himself believing the New covenant is but a rehash of the Old.
---leej on 11/21/10

Well,the Prophets and apostles are not your context as apparent. So it is your own context.
Relying on your female intuition and professors...who have veered off into the swamps of confusion is dangerous.
One is very foolish to go against all prophets and Apostles....just to uphold a current version of their own making....Francis has some fear and some humility before GOD. You appear to have nun.
---Trav on 11/22/10


leej, it is most important to know and rightly divide the word of truth. Without that knowledge of OT, as salvation is of the Jews, OT patterns we see fulfilled in the NEW, many without that understanding get caught in false gospels. We can compare scripture to scripture to see if what someone is saying is true, just as the bereans did with Paul.

MarkV denies that Christ became sin for us, clearly taught in the OT pattern of the scapegoat, Isaiah 53, as well as in Corinthians and in Peter. Peter clearly quote from Isaiah 53.

One cannot present the gospel to the lost without first understanding these things. Maybe that is WHY Calvinists do not preach the gospel to the lost to begin with. They just don't understand it!
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


I have often find it advantageous to read the Bible in different versions as well as using the various study Bibles. Unless you have a good grasp on the history and cultures of the ancient nation of Israel, understanding of the Old Testament alone can be difficult. I love the annotations some Bibles provide.

Unless you have taken formal classes in Bible from those who have been called into the ministry of teachings, you will go a long ways before understanding even the basic concepts presented in scripture. However, like Martin Luther maintained, a simple understanding of the Bible is sufficient for the Christian walk. Knowing Christ does not required a degree in rocket science.
---leej on 11/22/10


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Yes leej I too agree. But I don't believe MarkV realizes what he is agreeing to.

MarkV in the who what when where how and why category, you fail to apply this. When Jesus was talking to JEWS in John 6. You go on to quote, Those who are taught of the Father come to me. However YOU a Gentile were never taught of the Father as was Israel, through the Law and Prophets. THEY WERE. Gentiles were not. TODAY Gentiles have been taught the Gospel through Paul.

Jews who were taught were taught the Messiah would come and save His People, therefore accepting that Jesus was in fact the Messiah God sent. It has nothing to do with Election!
---kathr4453 on 11/22/10


Leej, yes, God's nature never changes, He is the same Yesterday, today and forever. His dealings with man has changed all through history, the reason for the many covenants. All with better purposes, until the one we have now, with the true sacrifice. No more substitutes. We have the real atonement, our Lord Jesus Christ. Some of this guys just want to stay under the Old Testament laws. They prefer to be living under the old conditions. Which is fine but they want everyone to go there with them, which is not fine. A lot of false teaching going on.
---Mark_V. on 11/21/10


francis - agree with you that it can be beneficial in comparing OT scripture with NT scripture. Some times we can find things in the Old Testament that are also found in the New Testament, maybe worded somewhat differently.

But you might try to become the very first in church history to find the command to observe the Jewish Sabbath in both the Old and New Testament. And that is where your so-called line by line thing would easily flounder.
---leej on 11/21/10


EXAMPLES OF LIN UPON LINE

Deuteronomy 8:3.. man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, IT IS WRITEN, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Romans 1:17 as IT IS WRITTEN, The just shall live by faith.

Habbakuk 2:4.. but the just shall live by his faith.

1 Peter 1:16 Because IT IS WRITTEN, Be ye holy, for I am holy.

Leviticus 11:45 ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

This is how youshould study the scriptures
LINE UPON LINE
---francis on 11/21/10


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Trav //You search a little closer Francis than many. The very things you post above for instance, leej cant see, but preaches if he can..

Sorry Trav baby, but you really got that one wrong.

Hebrews 8:8f Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.

Francis seldom views the previous or following verses and often quotes out of context. And since he is in bondage to his denominational teachings, he does not think for himself believing the New covenant is but a rehash of the Old.
---leej on 11/21/10


DONNA 66 - You do not understand the position of these people -------

It has nothing to do with there position it's GOD position.

2PETER 1:21 -------- NOT BY THE WILL OF MAN -------- ( GOD directs every word that's being written down.)

---RICHARD on 11/21/10


\\Faith is the principle.\\
There is nothing in faith that is peculiar to Christianity. Mahometans have faith. Wiccans have faith
I'm just trying to find out WHAT Christian principles are in our founding.
-----Cluny

Not believing scripture....you can't allow certain scripture to live.
Faith in Christ is diametrically different. Your maho's,proto's...don't have it. Faith.
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations,

2 Ur scientific reasoning....this scripture above is null and void...or spurned. This is just one...I've seen you disregard/spurn thousands.
---Trav on 11/21/10


Isaiah 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, [and] there a little:

AND

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines---francis on 11/21/10

You search a little closer Francis than many.
The very things you post above for instance, Leej can't see, but preaches as if she can.
She does not believe Heb 8:8, Jer 31:31 in Prophetic witnessed context because she feels it might exclude her. So she teaches a strange diverse doctrine that will. The other choice would be truth.
---Trav on 11/21/10


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Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

While the Lord never changes, He does deal with His creation in terms of covenants and the Old Covenant(obsolete=Hebrews 8:13) is much different from the New.

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

And that is why one should test the spirits as many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

The 1840's really has a flock of them with Joseph Smith, Ellen White and others.
---leej on 11/21/10


I like that Isaiah 28:9-10

NIV "Who is it he is trying to teach? To whom is he explaining his message? To children weaned from their milk, to those just taken from the breast? For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule, a little here, a little there."

The Message Bible even does a better job in translating -

"Is that so? And who do you think you are to teach us? Who are you to lord it over us? Were not babies in diapers to be talked down to by such as you- Da, da, da, da, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thats a good little girl, thats a good little boy."

LOL
---leej on 11/21/10


No matter who is being taught doctrine, it is always line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, [and] there a little:

AND

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

Doctrine NEVER changes from OT to NT
---francis on 11/21/10


Donna66, if you dont know Hebrew and Greek well, I highly recommend the use of high quality bible software [Logos, Word Search, or Bible Works] that has Interlinear version of the Hebrew and Greek text coded to Strong's numbering system for Hebrew and Greek dictionaries. Try to find the software versions that have the reverse look up feature that will show you all the different English rendering coming from that Hebrew or Greek term and where they are by Book and Verse It will help your personal Bible study immensely particular if you tie the software into the other tool I mentioned previously. Maps Commentaries, Lectionaries, Bible Dictionaries and Handbooks and Dictionaries of Ecclesiastical Terminologies.
---Blogger9211 on 11/21/10


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In context:
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, [and] there a little, that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Who is 'them'?
Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which [is] in Jerusalem.
Notice it was 'unto' the 'scornful''rulers'
Gal 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:10a For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse...(Deu 27:26)...'all the law'
---micha9344 on 11/20/10


Oh, Woe is me! I don't not know the original languages of the Bible (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic). Most people don't, you know.Does this mean we can't study Scripture?

Dictionaries, Lexicons and commentaries (more than just one) have to suffice for me.

//Know who is being addressed the subject and about their culture. Some scripture is generally address some is specifically addressed know the difference.//
This is the best advice yet.

But I'm not looking for "errors" in the Word. Some translations may be better than others. There may be errors in trancription (I think few) But the original, as it came from God, had no errors for God cannot err.
---Donna66 on 11/20/10


Never presume we have scripture correct by reading. We must be led by the Spirit first and then read. The Spirit will guide us in all things. Some people quote scripture and think they know all truth.When I was a young boy (of 10yrs), I never read a bible but yet the Lord showed me understanding. I remember sitting in church with my mom talking to God asking so many questions. I had them answered but not in the way I thought. All answers were, look at the Cross. Jesus is the way... Nothing more. That keep me through my early teen years.
---duane on 11/20/10


\\Doctrine is applied IN CONTEXT.\\

That's exactly what you do NOT do, francis.

I have pointed this out several times to you--others as well.
---Cluny on 11/20/10


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---Mark_V.
You did not read my previous post. Context NEVER established doctrine. Doctrine is applied IN CONTEXT.

It is always a good idea to know the context, but the context always changes, and studying based on context is not recommended by God.

The biblical way to know the doctrine is:
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT, LINE UPON LIN,E line upon line, HERE A LITTLE, AND THERE A LITTLE

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, [and] there a little,
---francis on 11/20/10


Richard--
2 TIMOTHY 2:16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD --------------

Certainly true. But He didn't write all of it on tablets of stone on a mountain top.
He used flesh and blood people most of the time. If you do not understand the position of these people, not the circumstances in which they spoke, you can easily miss what God is really saying.
---Donna66 on 11/20/10


Requirements to understanding Scripture:

Know the Author
Listen to the Author
---Linda on 11/20/10


\\All (with exception of drinking poison) were experienced by some in the apostolic church and reported in Scripture (Acts 28:5), but not afterward (v.20).
---Mark_V. on 11/20/10\\

St. John the Apostle and St. Benedict came close to drinking poison with no ill effect.

A similar story is told about both: When offered a cup of poisoned wine, the goblet shattered into pieces when they blessed it before drinking it.
---Cluny on 11/20/10


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Requirements to understand scripture

Know original Biblical Languages
Know the author of the text segment and their back ground.
Know who is being addressed the subject and about their culture. Some scripture is generally address some is specifically addressed know the difference.
Know what is going on in the ancient world during the period in questions and the geography of the area. You will need to use non biblical material to find out the answers. The Bible alone will not tell you all you need to know, neither will the Holy Spirit. Use good Bible tools, Commentaries, Maps, and dictionaries and lexicons the people who wrote them are better Bible scholars that you are. The Bible is not Inerrant anyone who say so is an idiot.
---Blobber9211 on 11/20/10


Francis, you can read the wrong context and come out with the wrong doctrine. Mark 16:18 is talking about signs that were promised to the apostolic community (Matt. 10:1, 2 Cor. 12:12), not all believers in all ages (1 Cor. 12:29, 30). All (with exception of drinking poison) were experienced by some in the apostolic church and reported in Scripture (Acts 28:5), but not afterward (v.20).
---Mark_V. on 11/20/10


DONNA 66 - who wrote it? Paul probably -

God is the author of the Bible from the first word in Genesis to the last word in Revelation.

2 TIMOTHY 2:16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD --------------

2 PETER 1:21 For the prohecy came NOT BY THE WILL OF MAN but HOLY men of GOD spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
( The Bible even gives an example)
JEREMIAH 1:9 Then the lord put forth his hand and touch my mouth.And the said unto me Behold,I have put my word in thy mouth.
JEREMIAH 36:4 THEN JEREMIAH called callsd Bauch the son of Neriah and Baruch wrote from the mouth of JEREMIAH all the words of The LORD,which he had spoken unto him,upon a roll of a book.



---RICHARD on 11/20/10


Mark V. you are correct in saying studying scripture takes work. It also takes time. Most people will not do this.

I remember studying an entire chapter word by word to see what the words meant in Hebrew. This took a lot of time, but I am thankful I took the time and made the effort..

I learned that the passage of scripture I was studying is taught by many Churches based on their "TRADITIONS", which turned out to be contrary to "THE TRUTH".

When I shared this with others, a few people said they didn't know, but the majority of people became "HOSTILE" because what I shared did not line up with their "TRADIDTIONS".
---Rob on 11/20/10


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Did I get that right?
---Donna66 on 11/19/10
YES., i would use the word DOCTRINE instead of scripture, but that is the general idea.

Here is another example
Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

the doctrine here would be Gods protection
Psalms 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

If you teach mark 16:18 as doctrine rather than context, you will have people drinking poison, and handling snakes as proof of faith.
---francis on 11/20/10


All those Ws are extremely important whenever we do not fully understand a portion of scripture. If we are ever confused or don't understand a section of the bible we should always look for the context of it and we cannot usually do this without knowing when it was said, to whom it was said, why it was said etc. etc.

Finding out all these things brings scripture to life and helps our understanding tremendously and, sometimes, makes us rethink some of our previous ideas on the subject in hand.
---RitaH on 11/20/10


Rob, you are correct. All those things we should take the time to find out. Every sentence follows a context. The context discribes what the subject is about in the passages. What is also important is that some single words mean one thing in one passage and another on another passage. The writers who brought us the Bible wrote differently depending on the time it was written. So what we also need is a Hebrew and English Lexicon, of both Old and New Testament. You take the word in the passage and look it up. One other thing useful is a Bible dictionary. To get the meaning of what Parable, smilies, Metaphors, alligories mean, and how to know which one you are reading. It takes work, but if we are passionate about God's word, we will do the work.
---Mark_V. on 11/20/10


I have often thought how much fun it would be to look at a Scripture pick one word out and study it for a year. [not enough time in my life for it]. Unless you are willing to do more than just read words, you will never understand the Scriptures. NEVER, NEVER....God has theologians, and I can promise you these men are diggers into the "word of God". Not just readers>>> quoter's. Hallelujah.
---catherine on 11/20/10


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//But the background of BY whom and TO whom the book was written, and the specific problems at hand, are essential to know for accurate understanding.
---Donna66 on 11/19/10 //
Amen, I believe we could say this is "rightly dividing".
---michael_e on 11/20/10


francis--- I don't understand why you say not to study Scripture in CONTEXT?
Every passage has a "context" which does not change. When Jesus, for example asked Peter, "Do you love me?" (3 times) The context is that of speaking to a follower who had denied Him and repented. Jesus doesn't say the same words to the disciples on Mt Herman..., or to Mary and Martha at the grave of Lazarus. Different words...different context. Thus "context" in Scripture makes a great difference.

The "context" that changes is the
situation to which Scripture is applied in present day life. Scripture cannot be tailored to produce whatever outcome a person might desire. Did I get that right?
---Donna66 on 11/19/10


Donna5535-- I would rather not tell students what conclusion to reach. We need to study the Bible as it was written. Take the Book of Hebrews, for example. WHO wrote it? Paul (probably) To WHOM was it written? The Jews, mostly. (Thus it has special meaning to them more than gentiles) WHY Because some of these Jewish Christians, under persecution, were considering a return to Judaism. Paul explains why the new Covenant is Superior to the Old and Faith is superior to the "works" of the old law.

The whole book,of course points to JESUS. But the background of BY whom and TO whom the book was written, and the specific problems at hand, are essential to know for accurate understanding.
---Donna66 on 11/19/10


1 CORINTHIANS 2:13 Which thing also we speak,Not in the words which man wisdom teacheth,but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.
( Compare verses with verses and when you find harmony between them you found truth - let the Bible be it's own dictionary - You can read or listen to what someone says about a verse, but check it out carefully, let God do the teaching )
REVELATION 22:18 For vertify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,if any man add unto these things,GOD shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book,
22,19 And if any man shall take way from the words of this book God shall take away his part of the Book of life --------

---RICHARD on 11/19/10


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The WHO and the WHY should always point us to Jesus. Remember, it's all about HIM, not us.

The Holy Spirit is a wonderful teacher and we are to study the bible in many different ways.

For example, there are topical studies. Studies on one word such as Joy, how do you get it? How do you maintain it? Then there are the study of prophesies.
Study deep into Jesus beatings (39 lashes) and all the abuses he went through BEFORE he was nailed to the cross, they all have a meaning to them. There's sooo much to study, it all depends on what the Holy Spirit thinks YOU need to know and WHEN you need to know it (what period in your life and what are you going through at the time of your study).
---Donna5535 on 11/19/10


I agree. I would also study the history (guess that's then when/where)because some of the teachings from churches are based on tradition of the churches instead of keeping with original scriptual teachings. I would rather be with the word of GOd then rely on the man made church traditions.
---candice on 11/19/10


An excellent idea. I have a couple of small paper-back books that affords you that. I have had them about as long as I have been saved, and just now getting into them.
---catherine on 11/19/10


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