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Who Wrote Book Of Mormons

Since we find many variations between the Book of Mormons and Mormon beliefs, who do you think wrote the Book of Mormons?

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 ---leej on 11/20/10
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There was another being (besides those of the Mormon faith) who thought he would "be like the most high" also.

You remember what happened to him?

There is but one God and his reign is not for sharing. Dont make the same mistake, Lucifer did. You are falling under the exact same delusion he had. He wasnt happy being a servant. He wanted to rule as a god.
---JackB on 11/25/10


Pharisee - some scriptural support that we have the potential to become like God:

Gen 3:22/John 10:34,35 / John 17:20-23/ I John 3:2/ Romans 8:14,15/ Ephesians 3:19/ Matthew 5:48 /Phillipians 3:21/ I Peter3:7 (which also supports the doctrine of Eternal Marriage) Rev 21:7

We also believe that Jesus Christ is Jehovah of the OT - that he created all things. We believe he did this under the direction of God, the Father.

KarenD - you never answered my question - what was Jesus before he "became a man" (your words). The Bible says that God is the Father of our spirits - how can you claim this is false doctrine?
---HappyLDS on 11/25/10


KarenD ... I doubt it in the case of this question. A Mormon whoukld not have made the error of calling it the Book of Mormons
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/25/10


KarenD //I am more than ever convinced that this question and many others are posted by LDS members to get their false doctrine out there.

I (presented the original question) am not a Mormon but do lots of apologetic studies dealing with Christian sects such as Mormonism, Adventism, Roman Catholicism, etc.

And from what is posted on Christianet, I get more insight into the beliefs of others.
In doing so, I am better able to give an answer to those who would challenge the faith that I have.

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
---leej on 11/25/10


I am more than ever convinced that this question and many others are posted by LDS members to get their false doctrine out there.
---KarenD on 11/24/10




"There are many biblical passages that support this claim." NONSENSE!!!

"For by him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him" Colossians 1:15

There is no support for the claim that Jesus is anything but the God who formed the universe, the notion is all throughout the scriptures, (John 1:1-3 for example) it's not just taught by one apostle, but supported in all their writings, and by the words of Christ himself who before he was crucified made the claim: "I am the resurrection and the life."
---Pharisee on 11/24/10


The bible DOES NOT say that we can gain perfection, but that we WILL gain perfection when Jesus returns.

Thrones are promised to the Apostles, however a generic reference to thrones exists in Rev 20. We WERE created in his image, but the fall of man (genesis 3) tainted that image with sin. here's proof that perfection is IMPOSSIBLE in the flesh...(see Romans 7 and Paul's confession that even he couldn't get himself straight)

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

To attempt to "keep the law" you break all of it, that's what James 2:10 says, you only gain Christ through humility, not the arrogant notion that you are perfected.
---Pharisee on 11/24/10


HappyLDS....Jesus was never an angel. Lucifer was. Actually, what spirit brother teaching does is to put Jesus on the same level as Lucifer. The spirit children teaching is not Biblical. Therefore, it is false doctrine.
---KarenD on 11/24/10


KarenD - I think you are paraphrasing Lorenzo Snow. You are pretty close. I find it curious that those words convince you that my religion is false. There are many biblical passages that support this claim. The Bible says that God is the Father of our spirit, that we are created in His image, that we will be co heirs with Christ, that we will have thrones AND that we can gain perfection. I'll gladly provide the scripture references should you wish to look them up.

What you neglect to mention is that while we do believe that the purpose of this life is to learn and to progress so that we can become like God - we will never be above Him - He is and will always be God, our Father.
---HappyLDS on 11/24/10


Steveng, You're speculating and guessing, John does not indicate anything about a 66 book bible. He is writing a "vision" of many happenings a bible is not one of them, the only book he mentions is the "book of life" with names of the saved ones!
There was no "bible" when others mention adding to God's words (His words,not script) which would be attempting to make God conform to some one's ideas!
The Syriac bible (Orthodox) does not include Revelation!(nor2nd Peter,Jude or 2nd and 3rd John)
Who has the authority to declare them wrong?
---1st_cliff on 11/24/10




1st_cliff: "Steveng, I thought you were a little more studious than that!
Adding or taking away was only mentioned in the book of Revelation,pertaining to "that" book, not the bible..at the time there was no bible!"

It is written in more places than one in both the OT and NT. Besides, Revelation is written in the future tense so, therefore, it knew of of everything including the written bible.
---Steveng on 11/24/10


KarenD - I guess I got confused because you tend to use the Jesus and Lucifer spirit brothers statement - one used often as an attempt to imply that we somehow exalt Satan. Most Mormons (including those who no longer believe)understand the difference. I am curious as to exactly what you meant by Jesus "became a man". Obviously you know that Mormons believe we are all spirit children of a Heavenly Father (including Jesus and Lucifer). Of course that makes us all brothers and sisters (including Jesus and Lucifer). It certainly does not exalt Lucifer - he was cast out for rebellion. Still, at one time he was favored. Exactly what do you think Jesus was before he "became a man?"
---HappyLDS on 11/24/10


Cluny - Mormons believe in both the Biblical and Book of Mormon accounts of the conception of Jesus Christ. We believe in a virgin birth, that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost. When you offer what Joseph Fielding Smith said - first, offer the context of the quote. Second, offer the entire quote. Most importantly, understand that our leaders are capable of thinking for themselves (just as we are) - they are only prophets when speaking for God.
---HappyLDS on 11/24/10


"As man is God once was, and as God is man may become." Joseph Smith (paraphrased) Doesn't that pretty much say this religion is false???????
---KarenD on 11/24/10


This statement by Lee,"All cults make the same claim but as anyone can see there is much in the Mormon religion that adds to the gospel - exalation of man, belief in many gods, continued revelation, restoration of priesthoods not heard of in the early church, as well as additional sacred writings" really does say it all.
---mima on 11/24/10


The Mormons do preach another/different gospel, much of the religious speak is the same, even some of the basic core beliefs. However, from the beginning Christians have taught of receiving a "grace" that is unmerited through Jesus Christ, Mormon doctrine teaches that you can earn your godhood like Jesus and God the Father did.

It reduces God to that of fallen man and commits the same foe par as evolutionary doctrine, that something came from nothing! If God was once a man as you or I, where's the God that made him, where is the Supreme sinless creator who started it all? God's message through his prophets are clear, he is the first and the last, the beginning and the end, and no one is God besides him.
---Pharisee on 11/24/10


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\\Cluny - you show that not only are you rude, you are ignorant as well.
---HappyLDS on 11/23/10\\

Are you DENYING that Mormonoids believe that the entity they call God the Father had sexual intercourse with Mary to produce the body of Jesus?

This was taught by your deceased Living Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith and many others.
---Cluny on 11/24/10


Tree of Life.
Tree of knowledge of Good and evil.

What Tree are you eating from?


We can eat all day from the tree of knowledge of good and evil studing
Other religions to the point where we can know In detail what they believe.
We can spend all day studing Theology and know all the debates.

But Eating
the bread of life from the tree of life gives life eternal-


Christ is suffient.
Matt 7
---char on 11/24/10


In any case, we can all believe in view of what constitutes Mormon beliefs, that it clearly does not represent that faith once and for all delivered the saints.

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

There is virtually nothing in the early church about man being capable of achieving godhood, nothing about the Aaronic or Melchizedek priesthoods being continued, nothing about Jesus being incapable of preserving His church beyond the death of the Apostles, and nothing about marriage in the eternal state, etc.
---leej on 11/24/10


HappyLDS...You are so wrong on many points regarding me personally. I did "get it" about the Mormon faith. However, I eventually came to believe that it was false. Jesus and Lucifer cannot possibly be "spirit brothers" as one of them was an angel (Lucifer) and the other became a man and is the Son of God (Jesus). As far as leaving the faith, I left it years ago when I read more thoroughly the beliefs that are not taught openly. One such thing is the notion that GOD lives in a place called Kolob.
---KarenD on 11/24/10


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HappyLDS:

Well, for one, the Bible says that those who are in Christ are resurrected. In the resurrection there is no marriage. Mormons believe that after death, they have "Spirit marriage" which is sealed for all time.

From this, one must conclude that either:
1) The Bible is wrong about marriage
2) Mormon teaching is wrong about marriage
3) Mormons do, indeed, stay married for all time, and thus never get around to partaking in the resurrection (so they are not in Christ).

So, which is it?
---StrongAxe on 11/24/10


leej - Camels are mentioned in the Bible (Gen 12:16) but scholars didn't think camels were known in Egypt prior to Greek and Roman times. Now they know that camels were known in Egypt in prehistoric times. Lions are mentioned in the Bible but scholars were perplexed by the lack of lion bones until lion bones were found in Israel just a few years ago. My point is that you don't know what will be discovered in the future!

Jim - I say that Jesus is the Son of God...just as Jesus says.

Cluny - you show that not only are you rude, you are ignorant as well.
---HappyLDS on 11/23/10


There are many doctrines taught by the Mormons that contradict doctrines taught in the Bible, but the 125-word limit prevents me from mentioning any in this post.
---StrongAxe on 11/23/10

I know the word limit is difficult but perhaps you could offer a general idea of what doctrines you believe are contradictory? I haven't seen anything contradictory to the Bible...really. I also want to thank you for your respectful disagreement - it's a refreshing change from most.
---HappyLDS on 11/23/10


HappyLDS:

The problem is NOT that "angels" are revealing anything. As you said, they did this in both the old and new testaments.

The problem is with preaching "another gospel" (and this refers to BOTH angels and men). If anyone (whether a man, or an angel, or a scroll, or a metal plate) teaches anything that directly contradicts what the Bible says, it cannot come from the same God who wrote the Bible, because the Bible is not the author of confusion.

There are many doctrines taught by the Mormons that contradict doctrines taught in the Bible, but the 125-word limit prevents me from mentioning any in this post.
---StrongAxe on 11/23/10


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KarenD - I completely understand why, if you were Mormon, you left the church. I know this will sound rude and believe me, it isn't meant to. I went back and reread some of your posts on other "Mormon" blogs on this site. It doesn't appear that you ever "got it" to begin with, based on some of the things you've said. I stopped attending the church for 20 years. I never stopped believing, I simply got lazy. I tried NOT to believe in order to relieve myself of the guilt I felt (and no, my family members aren't LDS), the guilt came from within me. I think that happens to many people who leave. There's an old saying that many leave the church but can't leave it alone. This sounds like the category you might be in.
---HappyLDS on 11/23/10


The writer of the Book of Mormons apparently did not intent it as anything rather than a novel as if it were sacred writings there would not be obvious problems.

1 Nephi 18:25 And it came to pass that, we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were many beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow, the ox and the ass and the horse and the goat and the wild goat, and all many of wild animals....

The scene here is allegedly North America in the year 591 B.C.

No such animals existed in the North American continent prior to European exploration. Indians did not ride horses, work with oxen or milk cows or goats until after the Spanish came in the 1500's.
---leej on 11/23/10


**HapplyLDS//Mormons believe in Jesus Christ,**

Mormonoids believe in an entity they call Jesus Christ who was born by a process called the "virgin birth" only by courtesy.
---Cluny on 11/23/10


HappyLDS....Christians hold to the truth that Jesus Christ is God who as always existed. There has never been a time when He was not.
Who do you say Jesus is?
---JIM on 11/23/10


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HappyLDS...Why is it so hard to believe that there are those of us on this site who have read the Book of Mormon as well as having been raised in the Mormon faith who have walked away from the falsehood of your religion? Perhaps the moderators do not post your questions because this is a Christian site, not a Mormon site. I believe that many of the questions which are asked regarding LDS doctrine are actually posted by LDS people who want to convert people on this site. There are those like myself who studied all the denominations a great deal before coming to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was a false prophet.
---KarenD on 11/23/10


HapplyLDS//Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, that he suffered and died for our sins and through obedience to his laws and ordinances we will be saved through him. How is that another Gospel...yes, another question which likely won't be answered.

All cults make the same claim but as anyone can see there is much in the Mormon religion that adds to the gospel - exalation of man, belief in many gods, continued revelation, restoration of priesthoods not heard of in the early church, as well as additional sacred writings.

Those who regard the Bible as the standard and have Christ in their lives really have no need for your religion.
---leej on 11/23/10


Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
by leej

It fascinates me how this scripture is used as some sort of "proof" that Mormons are preaching another Gospel! I guess the fact that angels are used as messengers throughout the entire Bible has gone unnoticed by many people. Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, that he suffered and died for our sins and through obedience to his laws and ordinances we will be saved through him. How is that another Gospel...yes, another question which likely won't be answered.
---HappyLDS on 11/23/10


As for "adding " & "taking away" it was referring ot the scrolls written then. it is said both in the OT & NT. So we are NOT to be adding to revelation & the other book, however look at John 20:30 NKJV
"and truly Jesus did MANY OTHER signs in the presence of his disciples,which are not written in this book,31)but tese are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, & that believing you may have life in his name." Compare & agreed with John 21:25
" & there are also many other things that Jesus DID ,which if they are written one by one,I suppose that even the world itself couldn't contain the books that would be written." Amen...count..
---candice on 11/23/10


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PT 2:So you can see by those 2 scriptures in John, other things were done & written by others testifiying of Jesus, but the basics we were to know are what is now called "the bible".The book of Mormon was translated at the right time & in "due season" God shows us what we need to know. I also know people accepting the book of mormon, but NOT accpeting the lds church. You donot HAVE to belong to the LDS church to own or read, or believe in the Book of mormon.
---candice on 11/23/10


HappyLDS//The Book of Mormon was written by prophets just as the Bible was. It testifies of Jesus Christ - some of you might do well to read it before making accusations.
---
Based on the same sort of reasoning we can also say the Koran was written by the prophets. And indeed it was, as their prophets compiled Mohammed's "sacred writings" years after his death.

Scripture warns us to beware of those who receive teachings from angelic beings.

Apparently Mormons have chosen not to listen to Scripture.

Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

And Yes, I expect to have read the BofM by the end of this year.
---leej on 11/23/10


Hi Rob. Yes, I saw the conversation on the blog. Both parties got one comment and adding more comments by either was not going to add any value, therefore your additional entry was not posted. Sometimes things just need to be dropped and people to move onto the next blog or to the next blogger for the sake of peace.
---Moderator on 11/23/10


Rob in your case we have blocked your posts after reading them because at times you are flaming a fire.
---Moderator on 11/23/10

And others don't? The criteria used by Christianet seems very arbitrary. The last conversation I had with a moderator (and I assume there are more than one) he (she?) was rude and condescending, then refused to either post or respond to my response (which by the way was neither). If you would rather have this conversation in private, please feel free to email me.

---NurseRobert on 11/23/10


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Thank you moderator for answering my question! I have tried on several occasions to post the same questions and they never make it onto the blog. I will take you at your word and assume it's coincedence.

Scott - I cannot help but question the integrity of many who post things I KNOW are outright lies and distortions. I have read the Book of Mormon and I KNOW it's contents. I have also heard the anti Mormon rhetoric and have read some of the things in print so I usually know where the distortions are coming from. Quotes out of context meant to distort the truth is actually a lie.
---HappyLDS on 11/23/10


"Anyone capable of honest thought will see that." HappyLDS

Personally attacking someone's 'honesty' is only one of the ways that faithful LDS rationalize away the embarrassing evidence surrounding the Book of Abraham.

I won't hold that against you.

I disagree with a lot of the theological views discussed here. But a close examination of the original biblical languages can sometimes get to the heart of the matter. It's a fair playing field, wide open to discussion and even debate.

However with the BOM, that can't happen because the golden plates are gone. So we have to look at Smith's translation ability with the Book of Abraham. And he was wrong.

BOM. Same Egyptian language. Same translator.
---scott on 11/23/10


The missing scroll theory/spin? 5 scrolls? (2)

"On opening the coffins he discovered that in connection with two of the bodies were something rolled up with the same kind of linen...which when examined proved to be two rolls of papyrus, previously mentioned. I may add that two or three other small pieces or papyrus, with astronomical calculations, epitaphs, etc, were found..."

(Postscript) Cowdery refers again to "a small quantity of papyrus, similar to "the astronomical representation contained with the present two rolls of which I previous spoke."

Oliver Cowdery, 'Messenger and Advocate'

2 main scrolls- BO Abraham & BO Joseph
---scott on 11/23/10


Rob in your case we have blocked your posts after reading them because at times you are flaming a fire. In Happy's situation, we have had that issue. He is usually polite.
---Moderator on 11/23/10


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Moderator:

Unfortunately, it is easy for software to deem a post "inappropriate".

On every post, we must give our email address. This has no purpose other than to bombard us with advertising. It would be useful if the system returned rejected posts via email, saying why they are rejected.

Now, if a post is rejected, there is no way to know (other than it doesn't show up), and there is no way to know who rejected it or why (or to appeal that decision). Returned messages would allow us to edit such posts to remove objectional content (rather than having to try to reconstruct such posts from memory, and "hope" we don't make the same myserious mistake next time.)
---StrongAxe on 11/23/10


Happy, we have not block any of your posts. However, the computer can block anyone's posts if there is inappropriate conduct without us even knowing.
---Moderator on 11/23/10

Why do I have a hard time believing this?
---NurseRobert on 11/23/10


Happy, we have not block any of your posts. However, the computer can block anyone's posts if there is inappropriate conduct without us even knowing.
---Moderator on 11/23/10


To answer the original question whoever wrote the Book Of Mormon was heeding the wrong spirits.
We are not to add to or take away from the word of God.
The Lord was clear in that there is one law for the Jew and stranger alike.
The law of the spirit of life which has made us free from the law of sin and death.
All who claim to be Christians should be of one Spirit speaking the same thing.
One Lord, one faith and one baptism. One God and Father of all.
All should be saved by grace through faith in the blood of the only atoning Lamb of sacrifice acceptable unto God.
---Frank on 11/23/10


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I'm always perplexed by the unwillingness (or inability)of those who think they have all the answers to answer my questions. Another issue is the unwillingness of many moderators to post many of the questions I've presented. Why is it that I'm expected to answer the same questions repeatedly and my answers go completely ignored or called spin? Scott - your quote isn't proof of anything and anyone capable of honest thought will see that.
The Book of Mormon was written by prophets just as the Bible was. It testifies of Jesus Christ - some of you might do well to read it before making accusations.
---HappyLDS on 11/23/10


ALL of the Man - made relig org's churches beginning with the rcc down through offspring daughters churches, including the mormons, j - witness, buddha, muslim, hindu etc gods came from here, 2nd.Cor. 11 v's 14 - 15.
---Lawrence on 11/23/10


//Satan wrote the book of Mormon through the lives of hardened prideful men who thought they had a better idea than the Gospel.// -larry

How is this Cliff?

Hardened, prideful men wrote the book of Mormon through the spirit of Satan who thought he had a better idea than the Gospel.
---aka on 11/22/10


1st_cliff: "Larry, **Satan wrote the Book of Mormon**"

Boy, did you take his post out of context.
---Steveng on 11/22/10


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candice...There are various branches of the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The major ones are the LDS group out of Salt Lake City and what was once called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which is now called the Community of Christ. Both groups have a D & C with "prophecies" the same until the death of Joseph Smith. After that, the two branches have different "prophecies". A former leader of LDS group said that God lives on Kolob. The Community of Christ is now debating whether to allow same-sex couples equal rights in the church. Joseph Smith and LDS practiced polygamy. Both groups were perverted and cannot have come from anything that God created.
---KarenD on 11/22/10


Larry, **Satan wrote the Book of Mormon**
Did he write any other books??
Did he write any of the 66 books of the bible?? Tell me how you know! Show your proof! or are you just running off at the mouth?
---1st_cliff on 11/22/10


Joseph Smith was caught with his pants down when while he was purpertrating the lies of his fantasy translation of Egyptian scrolls here in America. In France, at the same time, they had broken the code of Hieroghlyphics and tranlated it.

It blew the whole scam of Joe Smith right out of the water. VERY EMBARASSING!

He was a deranged 14 year old who read a fantasy book and then copied it to make the BOM. He was mentally ill till his death.

His lies of Egyptian Temples and Cities in the West worked then, since it was unexplored. They're now a Joke!!!

So now since the scam is exposed.. Mormoms have no facts left, they say its the "Burning in the Bosom" that counts,not the facts! LOL!!!
---John on 11/22/10


Satan wrote the book of Mormon through the lives of hardened prideful men who thought they had a better idea than the Gospel.

There are plenty of warnings for those who would "add" to the gospel, plenty.


All the splashing of protest doesn't change its status that it's not the bible.

Its a book of lies from the Father of lies.

---larry on 11/22/10


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The missing scroll theory/spin? (1)

"On the 3d of July, Michael H. Chandler came to Kirtland to exhibit some of the Egyptian mummies. There were four human figures, together with some two or more rolls of papyrus covered with hieroglyphic figures and devices."

"Soon after this, some of the Saints at Kirtland purchased the mummies and papyrus...and with W. W. Phelps and Oliver Cowdery as scribes, I commenced the translation...and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt..."

Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 235 & 236, emphasis added.

Continued
---scott on 11/22/10


"how do you explain that of the 3 so-called witnesses to the golden plates that made up the Book of Mormon, 2 of them publically denounced it as something Smith made up?" by leej

Leej - could you show your sources? David Whitmer left the church but NEVER recanted his testimony. In fact, his headstone has it engraved on it! Martin Harris came back to the church - NEVER recanted. Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated but rebaptized in 1848 as far as I know. He never recanted either.

As far as the statue - how is that a problem?
---HappyLDS on 11/22/10


Scott - Joseph Smith owned five scrolls - only 11 FRAGMENTS of two scrolls survived. It is unknown which scroll he translated from so therefore there is no "proof" of any error. The only "proof" is in the minds of the critics who will say anything to mislead people. The church has never denied that the fragments were from the Book of Breathings.
---HappyLDS on 11/22/10


All belief systems adapt over time or die out. Look at the teachings of the OT vs the NT. Look at the teachings of Christ vs the teachings of Paul.

Do any Jews today have animal sacrifices? Do any practice "stoning"?

Early Mormon belief does differ from Modern Mormon belief. Early Mormons believed in polygamy, the trinity, communal type living, and a strong religious-political structure. All of these beliefs are now either forgotten or quietly avoided by the main mormon church.

Christ and his first apostles believed that heavenly rewards would be based largely on our actions and motivations. Paul seemed to teach that salvation was much more just based on accepting Christ (belief, faith or predestination).
---sophia on 11/22/10


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Again not every book of mormon reader or Latter Day Saint is with the mainstream LDS "utah" church by Bringham Young. Only this church accepts the Pearl of Great Price. Other restored LDS church donot accept the POGP nor LDS D & C, but some have their own D & C. but all do accept the book of mormon itself without the extra books.
Again donot lump all Latter Day saints together. not all of them believe in the planet Kolab, some even laugh at such a thought. Do you put all baptists together in one group? No! Southern are different the independent, some independent are different the IFB,so on & so forth.So again donot group all of them together.
---candice on 11/22/10


\\Since critics of the Book of Mormon will never accept the testimony of the witnesses who say they saw the plates\\

I believe it says they saw them "with the eyes of the spirit."
---Cluny on 11/22/10


a mormon wrote the book for mormons.
---Eloy on 11/22/10


"Joseph Smith's translation" HappyLDS

(From closed thread. scott 11/19/10)

The only real demonstration of J. Smith's translation ability (since the plates are gone) would be the Mormon 'Book of Abraham'.

Translated from papyri written in what he called 'Reformed Egyptian" (same as BOM) Smith claimed this told the (additional) story of Abraham.

But when Egyptologists were finally able to decipher hieroglyphics they dismissed Smith's claims as ridiculous. The papyri actually are Egyptian afterlife documents and they contain no information about Abraham.

Since Smith's translation ability was flawed if not fraudulent with the Book of Abraham what about the BOM? Same language. Same translator.
---scott on 11/22/10


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True Mormonoid doctrine is found in Doctrine and Covenants, which many cases contradicts what the Book for Morons says.
---Cluny on 11/20/10

First, is it impossible for you to have disagreements without resorting to name calling? Using "mormonoid or moron" simply show a complete lack of character. While engaging in discussion about a faith why rely so heavily on "anti" rhetoric without any regard to the truth? You posted on another blog that there had been a church wide recall of JoD - a total lie meant to sway those who won't research the truth on their own. I'm also curious as to whether or not you can back up anything you say with scriptural evidence.
---HappyLDS on 11/21/10


Since critics of the Book of Mormon will never accept the testimony of the witnesses who say they saw the plates - three of whom left the church but never recanted their testimony. Critics will continue to say that there have been thousands of "changes" (which are pretty much grammatical) to the BoM and say that's "proof" it's a lie. Most of the critics who claim to have read it don't appear to be telling the truth (judging from description of it's contents.) So why not ask a different question:

WHY would Joseph Smith write this book? Lots of people started their own religion without having to make up stories of angels...WHY was it necessary and why was he willing to suffer and die as a result of a supposed lie?
---HappyLDS on 11/21/10


\\"I believe Joseph to be a translator & know he didn't make it up,.." Candice\\

Then why, when your deceased Living Prophet Joseph Smith called it the "most correct book on earth" and another of your deceased Living Prophets Joseph Fielding Smith said it contains the "fullness of the everlasting gospel"....

Why has it been changed over 4,000 times and verses added in 1983 or so?
---Cluny on 11/21/10


And Candice, how do you explain that of the 3 so-called witnesses to the golden plates that made up the Book of Mormon, 2 of them publically denounced it as something Smith made up?

Smith damned these witnesses and if I recall, 2 of them never became part of Smith's caravan ever again.

There is a statue in front of the SLC Mormon temple of the 3 witnesses and when I commented to my Mormon friend about that situation, he merely told me that is one of the problems that the Mormon church has.
---leej on 11/22/10


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"I believe Joseph to be a translator & know he didn't make it up,.." Candice

But Candice, how do you explain that what IS available for examination (the Egyptian Papyri that Smith used for the Book of Abraham) turned out to be documents related to the Egyptian afterlife...without any reference to Abraham?

If he was unable to actually translate the Egyptian hieroglyphs from those documents why would you assume that he had that ability when it came to the BOM golden plates? They contained the same "Reformed Egyptian", no?

How do you explain this?
---scott on 11/21/10


Steveng could have used instead of Revelation 22:1 simply Proverbs 30:6 "Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar."

I am currently reading and studying the Book of Mormon along with the various critiques.
---leej on 11/21/10


Cluny, like others I have copies or memoirs of family journals recorded by his son JosephJr III, & in these memoirs of journals Joseph Smith Jr was falsely accused of polygamy though he never practiced it. It was practiced by bringham young & others whom adopted it by people they met when traveling. If you read the true family journals then you'd see.
Also to the other person.. I believe Joseph to be a translator & know he didn,'t make it up, but to those whom donot believe in the book of mormon you're going to ignore what i say anyhow.i've spoken to many native americans who have read the book of mormon ,but not with the lds church who have agreed with how the simularities are with the old tribes.
---candice on 11/21/10


Their best book is "Pearls of Great Price". It has all the space stories. gods Planet and its star called Kolob and it tells about Joseph Smiths visit to the moon where he met with a bunch of people he said looked like Quakers. The Mormoms later removed this story and now have it in his private papers.

Also Independence Missouri is their "New Jerusalem".

HMMM? Maybe I'll move there. What highway do you take.... I guess The Highway to Heaven!
---JOHN on 11/21/10


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Steveng, I thought you were a little more studious than that!
Adding or taking away was only mentioned in the book of Revelation,pertaining to "that" book, not the bible..at the time there was no bible!
---1st_cliff on 11/21/10


Cluny, I'm surprised that you would sink to such a low standard, calling the Book of Mormon a "book for morons" .
I don't subscribe to Mormon theology, but that's no reason to "trash" a person's religious belief.
We fought for "freedom of religion" which means respecting an other's right to practise their faith without stoning them!
I'm sure you're more of a gentleman than that!
---1st_cliff on 11/21/10


candice:

Why do you believe that Joseph Smith was actually teaching us what God wanted us to know, rather than just some fabrication of his own devising?

First of all, the only example of his translation ability that we can objectively judge (since we do not have the alleged golden plates) is the Book of Abraham, since we still have the original Egyptian papyrus - and this has been proven to be pagan Egyptian death rituals. Since he got it wrong (and lied about it) about a document that we can see, why should you believe what he said about documents we cannot see?

Also, his OWN SCRIPTURES condemn polygamy, yet he himself practiced and encouraged polygamy - what does that say about his character?
---StrongAxe on 11/21/10


It is written that no person should take away or add to the Words of God - the bible - knowing the consequences.

So, what does man do? They write another book, a book of translations - the Book of Mormon, the Catechism, etc - knowing they are not directly adding to or subtracting from the actual Words of God and will not be afraid of the consequences.

Go ahead choose a biblical topic, any biblical topic. Then walk into any christian bookstore and look at all the different authors offering their own translations and opinions of any topic you chose.

To be safe as a christian, only read - and apply - what Christ says and nothing more. Colossians 2:8-10
---Steveng on 11/21/10


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Candice-

"Joseph Smith as 'translator' -

The only real demonstration of J. Smith's translation ability (since the "plates" are gone) would be the Mormon 'Book of Abraham'.

Translated from papyri written in what he called 'Reformed Egyptian" (same as BOM) Smith claimed this told the (additional) story of Abraham.

But when Egyptologists were finally able to decipher hieroglyphics they dismissed Smith's claims as ridiculous. The papyri actually are Egyptian afterlife documents and they contain no information about Abraham at all.

Since Smith's translation ability was flawed if not fraudulent with the Book of Abraham what about the BOM? Same language. Same translator.
---scott on 11/21/10


It is called the "book of Mormon" just like some people misquoting "Revelations" instead of the proper "Revelation" & it was done by many families & their descendents whom traveled from Jeruselem becoming native americans in the new land. Inspired by God, but not used as main scriptures. There are different branches of the LDS church & differnt thoughts, but one thing they do agree on is that Joseph Smith Jr translated the book of mormon. I think God chose him to only translate so we can see Gods other people in the other nations.After his death the church fell apart. I compare to joseph like Martain Luther as translators ONLY showing us what God wanted us to know.
---candice on 11/20/10


True Mormonoid doctrine is found in Doctrine and Covenants, which many cases contradicts what the Book for Morons says.
---Cluny on 11/20/10


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