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How To Pray And Fast

How do you properly pray and fast?

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 ---olivia on 11/22/10
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Joh 10:3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Joh 10:4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers."
Joh 10:6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
---aka on 11/29/10


-- 1st. Cliff :

Brother, You're asking a question which you'll only realize through Faith!!!

Faith that God's Word is True that ALL THINGS works together for good to them that Love God... and in this God is Glorified!!!


Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T. on 11/29/10


aka, Run if you wish, there are no chains holding you.
What you have what you have is words written on paper, what I have is "real life"
I'm saying they don't always match!
---1st_cliff on 11/29/10


you gotta know when to hold em...know when to fold em...know when to walk away...and know when to run.

Before debating anything please read 1Tim 6.

Some people who do not believe in our Scripture take a few, twist them, and get you lost in endless debate.

If the Spirit decides for you to debate, do not strive to be right. seek only righteousness.
---aka on 11/28/10


OK I understand where you're coming from,but I mentioned "personal experience"
Like= Pastor of a local Pentecostal church,one of the finest ,most sincere Christians, married with 3 daughters.
He became ill dozens of congregations prayed for him. He died. The wife (a super Christian) had to leave the "church house"
On welfare, she got cancer and died ..
Could this really "glorify God"?

2 daughters left the church,went "worldly" (disillusioned) 1 who was in the mission field stayed.
---1st_cliff on 11/28/10




-- 1st Cliff :

If the young Christian dies ,that you pray for... How will this "Glorify" God? --1st Cliff

Brother, We who are the called according to God's purpose, know ALL THINGS, including the death in your above question, works together for good to them that Love God... and in this God is Glorified!!!

Your Understanding of this, will only come as you depart from that revealed by Job 28:28.


--- AKA :

God made him suffer for a purpose.---aka

Brother, Whatsoever happens happens for a REASON & PURPOSE... and it is better the Will of God be so, that we suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. For Christ also once suffered for sins.
---ShawnM.T. on 11/28/10


1cliff, the answer I gave is from Scripture. I don't see why you would say it was sadistic. Paul had been revealed a lot of things and in order that he would not become prideful, God permitted the angel to inflict him. Even Paul admitted it. Many times as with the gifts of the Spirit people become prideful to the point they lose sight of what they were for. Paul stayed humble till the end through the power of God. God works like that on all those who are saved already, and when someone goes wrong He chastens them to correct them. Our lives are in His hands, and so is our security. That is what we gave Him, our lives so that He could move us the way He wants to move us.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/10


1st Cliff, I totally agree with what MarkV posted here.

God said to Paul,

MY GRACE, that is GOD's Grace is made perfect in our weakness.

God's Grace and power have nothing to do with our flesh, or self effort. God's GRACE cannot be seen through anyone who claims to be sufficient of themselves.

No anesthetic here at all. Dying to self so that Christ and His Grace can be revealed through us IS MOST PAINFUL.
---kathr4453 on 11/27/10


Job 37:23 The Almighty--we cannot find him, he is great in power, justice and abundant righteousness he will not violate.
Job 37:24 Therefore men fear him, he does not regard any who are wise in their own conceit (cunning, subtlety)."
Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Dress for action like a man, I will question you, and you make it known to me.
Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.

if we are not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then why don't you speak of the Gospel of Michael Christ without cunning devices?
---aka on 11/27/10


Mark V,**God would not remove the thorn as Paul had requested but would continually supply him with grace to endure it**
Isn't that a little like saying "whip you with cat-o-nine tails,but giving you anesthetic so you don't feel it"??
Either way to me seems a little sadistic!

---1st_cliff on 11/27/10




Shawn T, your answers are great. As with Job, Satan was the immediate cause, but God was the ultimate cause. The thorn was given to keep him humble. Paul's use of the word "messenger" "angellos) from Satan suggest the 'thorn in the flesh' was a demon person, not a physical illness. As Paul declares,
" And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me."
When He said, "My grace is sufficient for you" The present tense of the verb translated "sufficient" reveals the constant availablitity of divine grace. God would not remove the thorn, as Paul had requested, but would continually supply him with grace to endure it.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/10


//aka...You mentioned 11/23 that **Jesus does not have the "authority**//
This may be a good indication of why we are not on the same page.
I said, "if it is not in His Father's will, Jesus does not have the authority." Your statement is not nearly what I said in totality.
Then, you quoted the verse that I get my total statement from...Mat.28.18 "ALL authority in heaven and earth has been given to me" Who gave Him ALL authority? His Father because Jesus has now totally fulfilled His Father's will.
In the next verse , Jesus frees His disciples to do the same verse Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
---aka on 11/26/10


aka, We're not necessarily on the same page, but let me say I like the fact that you use "reasoning and logic" to establish your arguments!
I don't personally identify with 1Tim.6.3-5!
You mentioned 11/23/10 that **Jesus does not have the "authority**
Mat.28.18 "ALL authority in heaven and earth has been given to me"
Stop in the "name of the law" (Law has no name) same thing-name/authority.
Jesus is obviously not going to go against His Father's will!
If the young Christian dies ,that you pray for ...are you suggesting it's God's will???
How will this "glorify" Him?
---1st_cliff on 11/26/10


//God is not a group! How about the U S Army slogan "An Army of one"?//

Translation is about semantics.

The one US federal government is one political system made up of the executive, judicial, and legislative branches. The one country of the US is made of 50 states made up of their own executive, judicial, and legislative branches.

Jesus Christ talked of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I do not feel compelled to force that into one.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Did you read 1Ti 6:3-5?
---aka on 11/26/10


aka, Ah semantics...your family is a single group , God is not a group!How about the U S Army slogan "An Army of one"?
Deer like fish can be one or more, surely you're not thinking of shooting one of these beautiful creatures! Grab a hamburger!
---1st_cliff on 11/26/10


//---Chris on 11/23/10To those who claim prayer's aren't answered because they aren't in the Fathers will or Jesus' will, I tell you plainly, in light of 2 Peter 3:9, pray that everyone change their minds and trust the Savior. That is absolutely in His will, but we know from prophesy that it ain't gonna happen//

Amen
How do we know? Because we can read, and everything written albeit for our learning is not for OUR doctrine.
---michael_e on 11/26/10


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//No translator put Gen.1.1 "In the beginning Gods created" (why?) The verb created is singular making the noun subject to the verb therefore not plural in number!// Idk, my family (singular) will not shop on black Friday, because we (plural) want to have a peaceful day. BTW, deer season will start soon... or is it deers season?

//Fundamentalists try to use this as support for trinity!// Fundamentalists are not the authority on Godliness. Christ was not talking of the Trinity. He was talking of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

//Plural in greatness or majesty is not unusual, otherwise... "WE are not amused"// Reading 1Ti 6:3-5, I'll guaranty God not amused.
---aka on 11/25/10


AKA, What you say is true if we're talking "numbers" IE multiple gods.
However Elohim as in Gen 1.1 is plural in "majesty" why?
No translator put Gen.1.1 "In the beginning Gods created" (why?) The verb created is singular making the noun subject to the verb therefore not plural in number!
Fundamentalists try to use this as support for trinity!

Plural in greatness or majesty is not unusual , otherwise... "WE are not amused"
---1st_cliff on 11/25/10


There is only one constant one universal, it is the only real Truth... 'Causality'!!! Action reaction cause & effect. Nothing begin with Choice. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power and those without.

There is no escape from Causality... We are forever slaves to it. Our only Hope our only Peace is the Way to Understanding it(Job 28:28), and to Understand why takes Wisdom which is why it's the principal thing, separating us from them, you from me. Wisdom is the only real source of power, without it you are powerless.

Fear of the LORD is Wisdom, and to depart from evil is Understanding... therefore get Wisdom and with all thy getting get Understanding. Pro.4:7
---Shawn.M.T. on 11/25/10


Whatsoever happens happens for a REASON... So, What happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way than how God has foreseen it happen. Viewing this reason as sadistic is only a lack of Wisdom to Understand.

There's no escaping reason, no deny purpose b/c without its underlining causality nothing would exist.

It's purpose that created us, purpose that connects us, purpose that pulls us that guides us that drives us, it is purpose that binds & defines us.
---Shawn.M.T on 11/25/10


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Chris, Mark E is correct with his answer. Common sense tells us that if we ask something sinful, God is not going to answer us. Us sinning does not bring glory to God. So not all prayers will be answered the way we want them. Another thing to that passage is that God already knows the end of all things, and not one thing will change. For it is all is present before Him. In the context that passage is for the disciples to comfort them because He was going to go away. He was going to provide them with the necessary resources to accomplish their task without His immediate presence which they had come to depend on. To ask in Jesus name does not mean to tack such an expression on the end of a prayer as a mere formula.
---Mark_V. on 11/25/10


//I don't believe any one said God let Paul suffer on purpose, and any one who feels God did, doesn't Understand the Healing Blessing revealed to Paul when God answered him that His Grace is Sufficient.//

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

I would say that God made him suffer for a purpose. The healing blessing is spiritual which may or may not be manifested in physical healing.
---aka on 11/24/10


...by substituting Adonai and Elohim for YHWH. -1st_cliff on 11/23/10

At first, I was thinking, if the scribes replaced Adonai and Elohim for YHWH, then why didn't they totally replace YHWH with Adonai and Elohim? Then, I realized where this is going.

The scribes also included Adonai and Elohim with YHWH, so that we start recognizing the neo-platonic, polytheistic, blah blah blah pagan religions of the time...the Trinity.

1) Christ was not talking of the Trinity. He was talking of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

2) If the scribes wanted three gods, they would have implanted Adon and Eloahh. Adonai and Elohim are plural, which is at least 2 + 2 + YHWH, which at least 5 gods.

that was slick.
---aka on 11/24/10


John, Does it make you uncomfortable just to answer my question??? (waiting)
---1st_cliff on 11/24/10


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Thanks AKA, I appreciate it!
I guess it was a bit on the sharp side :)
---John on 11/24/10


to Mark Eaton,
You said:"The statement by Jesus does not mean what you are reading into it."

Sir, I read absolutely nothing into it. I claim the Savior said exactly what He said to exactly who He said it, at exactly the time He said it.

I contend that it is you who are clearly "reading into it" the imagination of your own heart. You actually said "if you read it as a parent". Were all the apostles whom He was specifically speaking to parents?

Why not just take Him at his actual words?

BTW, I consider it very rude that you completely ignored my question about whether God wants all to come to repentence.
---Chris on 11/24/10


-- 1st Cliff & Michael E :

Brothers, Wow Do ya expect no one to physically die. Our Heavenly Father can be Glorified through Healing as well as death... for we know all things work together for good to them that Love God.

Trust that God is always listening & answering prayers whether it's 1 or 100 praying, and is Glorified through the answers He gives.

Study & learn the story of King David praying for his new born to live, and how his Trusting Faith in God sustained him when his baby died. 2 Samuel 12:16-23

BTW ~ I don't believe any one said God let Paul suffer on purpose, and any one who feels God did, doesn't Understand the Healing Blessing revealed to Paul when God answered him that His Grace is Sufficient.
---ShawnM.T. on 11/24/10


If you have a logical argument, bring it. But spare us the 'you just don't understand like I do' self-righteousness.
---Chris on 11/23/10

The statement by Jesus does not mean what you are reading into it.

If I ask Jesus for something that is sinful (to commit adultery), Jesus will NOT do it for me. We cannot expect Jesus to BLINDLY give us things just because of this verse.

If you read the verse as a parent, you know what God is saying. There are limitations to what God will do for us. I have said something very similar many times to my son, but I never intend to give him a rope to hang himself. Neither does God. The verse is not a blank check for us to fill in.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/24/10


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John, Question = How can you give serious counsel with a "superstition" hang-up?
Writing G-D is what Jewish people do because they're some how afraid to say "God"! Like the Scribes did by substituting Adonai and Elohim for YHWH. -1st_cliff on 11/23/10

Ad hominem logic. To me, John, your post was good...a bit sharp, but small things should not bother most.
---aka on 11/23/10


"How do you properly pray and fast?"
Pray in the Spirit, as one led by the Father's inspiration, influence and guidance, according to His Word, which conveys His principles, and promises, and always as one under, and in submission to His authority.
Fast the fast that the Father has chosen for us, "to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke." Isa.58:6 (NIV)
"Remove the binding hands of guilt and condemnation and be free of the yoke of oppression that may hinder you, while letting those crushed under that burden of prejudice, oppression, or judgement, embrace their freedom in Christ without hinderance from you." Josef"s translation:o)
---Josef on 11/24/10


//So, it still stands, anything you ask in His Name (or in God's will), Jesus will do.
---aka on 11/23/10//
(Isn't healing and salvation in God's will?

//In regards to Paul's thorn, It needed to remain in his side to Glorify the Father & Reveal that God's Grace is sufficient!!!//

John 14:13,14, God the son in His earthly ministry, speaking to the disciples to the nation of Israel. "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it."
(salvation and healing glorified the Father)

2 Cor. 12:9 The ascended Christ speaking to the Gentiles Apostle "My grace is sufficient for thee:"
(would healing have glorified the Father?)

Same God,dealing with mankind under a different dispensation.
---michael_e on 11/24/10


John, I don't remember that blog,but you could answer the question!
---1st_cliff on 11/23/10


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you and I both know it doesn't work now. --michael_e on 11/23/10

Jesus did not give Paul the gospel of grace to replace the gospel of the kingdom, but to fulfill God's will.

'In my name' was not meant to be an invocation to witchcraft. He was saying, 'in my authority'. if it is not in His Father's will, Jesus does not have the authority.

So, it still stands, anything you ask in His Name (or in God's will), Jesus will do.
---aka on 11/23/10


Shawn T, I never make "irate" responses, but I do inquire!
Whenever prayers are answered,isn't God "glorified??
To say God let Paul suffer on purpose is sadistic isn't it?
When unselfish prayers for a fellow Christian's health or unfortunate circumstances go unanswered,one can only conclude that no one is listening! (personal experience).
Q- If 100 people pray is God more apt to answer than just one person? (scripture?)
---1st_cliff on 11/23/10


To 1st Cliff and Michael E,

Cliff,
Michael is absolutely correct. There can be no doubt that the Savior was speaking specifically and only to 11 hand picked men at a specific time and place. Michael's reasoning is logical and air-tight.

To those who claim prayer's aren't answered because they aren't in the Fathers will or Jesus' will, I tell you plainly, in light of 2 Peter 3:9, pray that everyone change their minds and trust the Savior. That is absolutely in His will, but we know from prophesy that it ain't gonna happen.

If you have a logical argument, bring it. But spare us the 'you just don't understand like I do' self-righteousness.
---Chris on 11/23/10


John, Question= How can you give serious counsel with a "superstition" hang-up?
Writing G-D is what Jewish people do because they're some how afraid to say "God"! Like the Scribes did by substituting Adonai and Elohim for YHWH.
---1st_cliff on 11/23/10

Cliff your ignorance of scripture in this case is definately NOT bliss.

Study and learn!

We already had a blog on this.
---JOHN on 11/23/10


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--- 1st Cliff & Michael E :

John 14:13 Whatsoever ye shall ask in my name that will I do, that the Father may be Glorified in the Son.

Brothers, You're Understanding of John 14:14 is incomplete without verse 13.

In regards to Paul's thorn, It needed to remain in his side to Glorify the Father & Reveal that God's Grace is sufficient!!!

James 4:3 is the reason why we receive not what we ask/pray. Everyone like to think that what they're asking/praying for will Glorifies God, but that doesn't mean that that is necessarily so... So PLEASE NO IRATE RESPONSES about not Understanding/seeing your prayers as being lustful or used upon your lust, b/c how else could it be used if it doesn't Glorify God.
---Shawn.M.T. on 11/23/10


//Michael_e : I don't see any "exceptions" mentioned in Jn.14. It seems straight forward!
---1st_cliff on 11/23/10 //

you and I both know it doesn't work now.
---michael_e on 11/23/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Fasting is nothing more than sustaining from things that are not absolutely necessary... and as far as praying goes, He who prayest best Lovest best, all things both great & small... for our dear God Who Lovest us, He made and Loveth all !!! ~ The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner

Whosoever shall Say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea, and shall not doubt in his Heart, but shall Believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass, he shall have whatsoever he Saith... For with the Heart man Believeth unto Righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto Salvation.

Mark 11:23 Rom.10:10

Grace Unto All & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T on 11/23/10


Michael_e : I don't see any "exceptions" mentioned in Jn.14. It seems straight forward!
---1st_cliff on 11/23/10


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There is only one way: As God leads you. You are not suppose to do as the hypocrites, do. Going around all day, face hanging down, looking pitiful, and talking about it all the day long. Come on, now. You are suppose to be in prayer, not talking about it to every Tom, Dick, and Harry. Who could really care less.
---catherine on 11/23/10


John, Question= How can you give serious counsel with a "superstition" hang-up?
Writing G-D is what Jewish people do because they're some how afraid to say "God"! Like the Scribes did by substituting Adonai and Elohim for YHWH.
---1st_cliff on 11/23/10


In fasting (as Jesus said) you're not to let anyone know you're fasting. It must be done in secret. No one should have a clue you're fasting.

Fasting is a time when you shut up the world and spend time in commununion with G-d alone deprived of oneself. Praying is similar, except you are not deprieved of food.Of course your pray when you fast.

WORD OF WARNING G-D WILL NOT BE MOCKED!!!

If you (like Pseudo Carnal Christians)are using this fast to better your health or lose weight.

BETTER YOU DON'T DO IT AT ALL!!!

If you feel this may be temptation, then cancel this Satanic arrow by eating 1/2 gallon of ice cream when you are done. nullifying any health/weight effects.

YOUR FAST MUST TRULY BE WITH G-D ONLY!
---John on 11/22/10


//When a prayer is not answered it's considered to be a "no" but that's not what Jn. 14.14 says!
What say you???//

I say He was speaking to the disciples of the nation of Israel, and it would have worked for them had they not rejected their messiah.
It didn't work for the Apostle Paul, with his infirmities.
---michael_e on 11/22/10


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Why would a christian pray for another christian to remain on this corrupted earth rather than go to a better place?
I tell you the reason is selfishness in which they are not praying in Jesus' name.
How can we pray anything selfishly in Jesus' name?
God looks at the heart and it is the heart that justifies or condemns us and our motives toward the petition.
---micha9344 on 11/22/10


//What say you???//

Hope 'you' is plural and includes me.

my name - onoma (on'-om-ah) a name (literally or figuratively), my authority, or my character)

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my [authority/character], that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my [authority/character], I will do it.

Jesus is only given the authority to glorify His Father. His character is that our Spirit is born to occupy a new body. I am looking forward to that day.

The succeeding letters that spell the word 'Jesus' (or any other variation thereof) has no intrinsic value if it is not used to glorify the Father (His Will).
---aka on 11/22/10


I must confess I'm not a great "pray-er"
Jn.14.14"you may ask me for anything in my name and I will do it" (no mention of fasting here) No ifs ands or buts "I will do it".
There's something amiss here because it just isn't so. I have mega years of experience and witnessed dozens of congregations all praying for a certain Christian only to see them die!
When a prayer is not answered it's considered to be a "no" but that's not what Jn. 14.14 says!
What say you???
---1st_cliff on 11/22/10


Donna and I gnatius are correct:

Read, contemplate, and understand Isa 58:2-11

Check your motivation and do it for His purposes without letting someone define it for you.

Satan loves when we do anything in the flesh, especially those activities which make the flesh weak and depends on spiritual feeding to strengthen it.

If you do it not in the Holy Spirit, there will be spiritual activity and it is hopefully not the kind that you want.
---aka on 11/22/10


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I agree with Cluny. What has been passed down by Christ, the Holy Apostles, there Holy Successors, and the Early God-Bearing Fathers concerning prayer and fasting can be found in Orthodoxy. Such displines can be dangerous if not based on the right Faith. In fact, Demonic activity/delusions/pride can occur during such spiritual exercises (expecially for those new in praying/fasting), stories of such can be found in the Lives of the Saints.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/22/10


olivia, be led by the Spirit of God.

Meaning, sit before the Lord quietly. Keep silent for a few minutes. Rest in the Lord and wait for the Holy Spirit to prompt you to either Worship Father God & Jesus, or to Praise Him or to start praying in English or in the Spirit.

The fasting has to be ordained by God because if you do it in the flesh, in your own strength, you'll be hungry and give in and eat. I remember many times I wanted to fast and by 3:00pm I was starving so I ate...thus the fast wasn't ordained by God.
---Donna5535 on 11/22/10


The discipline of fasting and prayer that brings the best results has been passed down from Apostolic times to this day in the Orthodox Church.

However, without a basis of pure and correct faith, it can lead to disaster, as history has shown.
---Cluny on 11/22/10


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