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Salvation Based On Doctrine

How dependence is our eternal salvation on what we believe regarding correct doctrine? In other words, do we need to have all the the correct doctrinal beliefs to have eternal salvation?

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 ---leej on 11/26/10
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1., Justification is an act of God whereby He declares unjust sinners to be just AFTER He has imputed to them the righteousness of Christ.


Justification is the act of God where He declares the UNGODLY righteous based on one's faith in Christ.

Anymore than Abraham being imputed Isaac first, before he believed.

It was because of Abraham's FAITH first that God imputed anything.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/10


2 of 2 Jerry -

3.Faith is the necessary condition to receive the imputation of the merits of Christ.

4.And finally justification requires a living an real faith, not a mere profession of faith.

Source: items 1-4, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith, RC Sproul p.190.
---leej on 12/2/10


1 of 2

Jerry //Don't you believe that one must believe that Christ exists, repent of his past sins, and accept Him as his personal saviour PRIOR to justification?

I believe the argument that regeneration occurs prior to faith is more plausible, repentance is not a necessary prerequisite.

This has been a debate between theologians such as James White (the Potters Freedom) & Dave Hunt (What Love is This?) and several others, so is really academic.

1., Justification is an act of God whereby He declares unjust sinners to be just AFTER He has imputed to them the righteousness of Christ.

2.No one can earn justification by good works.

(to be continued)
---leej on 12/2/10


Ginger, you say "Christan, regeneration of the Holy Ghost does not happen at the time of repentance. The time of repentance is the stage of the conviction by the Holy Ghost. Regeneration happens after you believe. Not until then do you become sealed with the Holy Ghost. You have the two stages confused."

Read this properly - repentance is because of regeneration by the Holy Spirit when He applies faith onto the sinner.

Please stop wedging your words between mine. It's one of Satan's favorite past-time.

Confused now?
---christan on 12/2/10


Ginger, you are adding to the context of those verses which you gave Leej.
You are so determined to be right and in the process you destroy the grace of God. What you are suggesting is that if a person does some works of his own, by eating the bread and drinking from the cup he will have salvation. That is salvation by works of the law. No one is saved through works. Not one person. I would suggest that you rethink what you are going to say before you say it. Read the passages first and understand what they say. No where do those passages suggest that if you do what Jesus commanded you to do in remember of Him, you would be saved, but was a command given to all those who believe already.
---Mark_V. on 12/2/10




//Leej, let me help you understand the meaning of what "doctrine" is//-- Christan

Do you honestly think the man is so stupid that he doesnt know what the word doctrine means?

It seems someone needs to explain to you what the word "arrogant" means.

You sound just like your sidekick Mark.
---JackB on 12/2/10


Lee: "Thus, it is difficult to get away from the fact that salvation is totally in the hands of God as He has appointed even from the foundation of the world those who will inherit salvation."

I thought you were Presbyterian - not Calvinist. Don't you believe that one must believe that Christ exists, repent of his past sins, and accept Him as his personal saviour PRIOR to justification?
---jerry6593 on 12/2/10


Christan, why do you continue to pull verses out of their context?
Did you not read right before that verse, Christ tells them to take the bread and wine and eat and drink of it? Yes he did.
He was telling us- His words - What we are to do to be saved.
In the verse you keep using, Jesus is telling us that what he told(words, spoke) the disciples about the bread and wine- the way to salvation- are spirit and they are life.
Read John chapter six together, then you will have understanding from the Holy Spirit.
---ginger on 12/2/10


Ginger, you want to compare a literal story of Lydia that really happened to a parable that has lessons. Let me say that the parable of the Prodigal Son begins with, he was His Son. And in all that time, he never stop being His son. Second. He was gone and came back with true repentance. This parable is one of the longest and most detailed parable. And unlike most parables, it has more than one lesson. The prodigal son is an example of sound repentance. The elder brother illustrates the wickedness of the Pharisees self-righteous, prejudices, and indifference towards repenting sinners. And the father pictures God eager to forgive, and longing for the return of the sinner.
---Mark_V. on 12/2/10


Leej, let me help you understand the meaning of what "doctrine" is. Dictionary says "a body or system of teachings relating to a particular subject".

Eg., the Holy Bible teaches doctrines of Redemption, Election, Predestination, God's Sovereignty, and so on. One doctrine not taught is "free-will of the dead man".

Through the Holy Spirit, these doctrines are taught to only God's people. Without the Holy Spirit guidance, you will never be able to discern the doctrines because they're spiritual. Jesus simply declared, "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63
---christan on 12/1/10




Christan, regeneration of the Holy Ghost does not happen at the time of repentance. The time of repentance is the stage of the conviction by the Holy Ghost. Regeneration happens after you believe. Not until then do you become sealed with the Holy Ghost.
You have the two stages confused.
Have you not read that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost and the Holy Ghost will not and does not live in an unclean temple? Well, the word of God says that. If you have not repented, your temple is still dirty. When Christ moves in, he starts cleaning you out because he refuses to live in a dirty house.
Look At what Jesus said to the pharisees. He said their "cup"- bodies, were clean on the outside but filthy on the inside.
---ginger on 12/1/10


Apparently doctrine has no part in salvation, we are either elect or we are not.
Doctrine, therefore, has no place in a person's life, whether elect or not. God has made his vessels who they are an no amount of teachings can change that.
---micha9344 on 12/1/10


"Salvation is based on repentance not doctrine." Larry

Salvation is not based on repentance but justification by faith. It is through faith that the sinner repents. Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

For even the Muslims, Hindus and other faiths will claim they repent. But their repentance is null and void because it does not come with the faith that's from God. They are not justified by faith - which only God Almighty works in the Christian.

An obviously you do not understand what "doctrine" means.
---christan on 12/1/10


Sister Ginger is correct. Salvation is based on repentance not doctrine. You may be saved with a child like faith long before you have a full grasp of the gospel outside of the need for repentance.
---larry on 12/1/10


Ginger, you claim "Christ himself said repent and believe then recieve the seal of the Holy Ghost. That is how election comes about."

I have no problem with the first part of your claim as repentance is because of regeneration by the Holy Ghost upon the sinner. As Paul said in Acts 13:48, "...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

But when you say, "That is how election comes about", that's a blatant lie. Why? This is what Scripture says about election, "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" Romans 9:11
---christan on 12/1/10


Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you." 25 "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many." 23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not." 24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." 25 "Behold, I have told you before."

To say doctrines are not important is to say the teachings in the Holy Bible is not important.
---christan on 12/1/10


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//do we need to have all the the correct doctrinal beliefs to have eternal salvation?

When I came to know Christ, I knew little or nothing about Christian doctrine. I was raised to believe in Christ, however, never acknowledged Him as my Lord.

While I often went to church, I really never heard the gospel message even if it had been preached. So from my own experience, I had to learn what it was all about and what was expected of me in being a Christian.

Thus, it is difficult to get away from the fact that salvation is totally in the hands of God as He has appointed even from the foundation of the world those who will inherit salvation. Eph. 1:4
---leej on 12/1/10


Christan, again you misquote Christ.
Christ himself said repent and believe then recieve the seal of the Holy Ghost. That is how election comes about.
I am not calling Paul a liar. I am calling you a liar and the word is not in you if you believe people get seal with the Holy Spirit first before they get saved. THAT IS NOT WHAT JESUS SAYS OR EVER SAID.
---ginger on 12/1/10


Freewillers will use a verse presented below to justify that the people believed and turned to the Lord by their own free-will.

Acts 11:21 "The Lords hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord."

Now open your eyes and read the following verse -

Acts 13:48 "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

Paul clearly declared the following - first, appointed (which also means elected by God), then came believe and not the other way round that you so convincingly try to sell. Ginger, you speak against the Word of God and you don't even know or see.
---christan on 12/1/10


And it wont be because the prodigal son was born again already because his father specifically said that he was "DEAD" and now he is alive again.

"Dead means dead" as you said MarkV. Spiritually dead? Unable to understand anything of God and respond? But yet this man's conscience got the best of him and he reasoned within himself to go to his father's for safety and help.

You know good and well what the meaning of this parable is. When the son was away from his father he was reckoned as "dead" and when he came to his senses and returned to his father he was considered "alive again".

Dead in trespasses and sin and made alive again (quickened). Sound familiar?
---JackB on 12/1/10


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And what about the prodigal son, MarkV?
Are you going to say he didn't realize by himself that he needed to return to his father because he found out the hard way, lifes trials, that he needed his father?
Do youo understand that that story applies to every single sinner? Well it certainly does.
And I said Amen because it is truth.
---ginger on 12/1/10


Ginger you give an amen to something not true at all about Lydia. I don't know if you listened to the words spoken or not but Lydia was already worshiping God. She already had faith as Cornelius did. She was already seeking God. For all those who are spiritually dead do not seek after God Rom. 3:9-12. She was already alive made alive by the Spirit of God. The only thing she needed that she had not gotten yet was the saving knowledge of God in Christ, which she now received by heeding the words of Paul, in order for her to make a commitment to Christ. And God opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. Most don't get it and reject Scripture so that it fits their theology which is wrong. The reason they cannot answer many passages.
---Mark_V. on 12/1/10


Samuel, I welcome anyone who wants to debate by giving Scripture to debate with. At least I know it's not all just talk. You mentioned Cornelius, and if you read the story, he was a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously and prayed to God always. This man was already spiritually alive but had not make his commitment known until he received the saving knowledge of God in Christ which happened in Rom. 1:20. Even the Angel of God came to him and told him his prayers to God had been heard. Because as you know that faith in God comes from God through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. God right now is at work changing hearts, and preparing them for the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 12/1/10


Samuel 2: The reason we know that he had to be born again of the Spirit is not only because of his faith in God, and not only because the Angel of the Lord came before him but because Romans 3:9-12,
"For I already charged that all men, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, as it is written, none is righteous, no, not one, no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong, no one does good, not even one" So Cornelius already had the spiritual life. For he was good, he also had faith, and also seek God because he prayed to Him. All that was needed was for him to hear the salvation through Christ and make a commitment.
---Mark_V. on 12/1/10


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JackB "That is total opinion and is directly refuted by scripture."

You are right on!

Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

It seems to me that since Jesus came to save ONLY those of us who were lost, then the predestinationalists who claim to be chosen, and thus always having been saved, cannot ever be saved, since they were never lost.
---jerry6593 on 12/1/10


God opened her heart to the gospel Paul was teaching because she sought God already with her heart. Which is in line with scripture that tells us if we seek God with all our heart we WILL find Him. He does not turn away those who truly want to know Him.
---JackB on 11/30/10

Amen JackB
This is a very good example that God has given freewill, a conscience, and the abiblity to see our sin and ask him for forgiveness.
MarkV and Christan need to read the prodigal son but they won't because it shoots holes all in their doctrine that man can't repent unless God controls them and makes them repent.
---ginger on 12/1/10


There's a wonderful discourse spoken of by Christ to those who deny that they are dead and blind to the Word of God until God Almighty raise them from the dead spiritually which then enables them to see. This one's for you -

"Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, Are we blind also? Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you would have no sin, but now you say, We see. Therefore your sin remains." John 9:40,41

God's Word is eternal and this can be applied at the present time and the time to come. How true and praiseworthy is Jesus Christ when He spoke these words to the Pharisees. There may not be Pharisees these days but their spirit is definitely alive and well.
---christan on 11/30/10


Cornelius feared God, gave alms, and prayed...even had an angel come to him in a vision and instruct him to send for Peter and to hear his words concerning what to do. Peter brought the gospel to this seeking Gentile. Not only does this show us that unsaved Gentiles do seek God, it shows us God's method of dispensing the gospel...through believing men and women. Acts 10.
---Samuel on 11/30/10


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Yet before the Lord opened her heart she was already a worshipper of God. Your own scripture proves you wrong, Mark.

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Three things about Lydia.. she was a seller of purple, she was from the city of Thyatira and she worshipped God.

God opened her heart to the gospel Paul was teaching because she sought God already with her heart. Which is in line with scripture that tells us if we seek God with all our heart we WILL find Him. He does not turn away those who truly want to know Him.
---JackB on 11/30/10


//so the soul dead in sin cannot acquire spiritual vision by any amount of gospel truth presented to it//-- MarkV

That is total opinion and is directly refuted by scripture.

The Gentiles have always been without God yet we told in Romans that God has manifested himself unto them and they still have a conscience that condemns them even though they are without the Law.

And also In the parable of the Prodigal Son, the son "came to himself".. he reasoned that he had made a mistake and wanted to return to his father knowing he did not deserve to be called a son any longer. His own fathers words "For this my son was DEAD, and is alive again, he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
"
---JackB on 11/30/10


Ginger, as the physical eye once blinded cannot be restored to sight by any amount of light falling upon it, so the soul dead in sin cannot acquire spiritual vision by any amount of gospel truth presented to it. Unless the surgeon's knife or a miracle restores the eye to its normal condition, sight is impossible. And unless the soul be set right through regeneration it will never comprehend and accept the Gospel Truth. In regeneration God bids the sinner live, and immediately he is alive, filled with a new spiritual life. Lydia, the seller of purple gave heed to the things which were spoken by Paul, because the Lord had first opened her heart (Acts 16:14).
---Mark_V. on 11/30/10


Yes, if you believe that Jesus was just a man, you're not saved. If you believe that going to church is salvation, or paying a tithe is salvation you're not saved. If you believe that your belief is salvation, you're not saved. So correct and right doctrine is very vital for salvation.
---Eloy on 11/30/10


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Umm, Donna66,sis

All grace comes from God.

That is what we are discussing.
Christan says that faith has to be given to you before God will give you his grace. BUT that is NOT what the Gospel says.
It says repent and believe(Show faith) and you will receive eternal life through God's grace that was given to every man by Christ dying for ALL MAN'S SIN.
Christ died for every man. the Bible says this and no amount of him twisting scripture is going to change that.
---ginger on 11/30/10


Whose Grace are we talking about? Surely not yours or mine. It is God's GRACE that allows us the be reconciled to Him though we in no way deserve it. We benefit from God's grace, but it is still HIS Grace. If we have any grace at all, it is acquired only after spiritual growth and the continued exposure to God's Grace.
---Donna66 on 11/29/10


For by Grace you are saved- this means it is not a work of God that gives you grace but it is already given because Christ died for all sins.///

Sorry about this.

It is supposed to say that Grace is the work of God already given through Christ who died for all sins.
I am at home talking to my kids about Christ and typing and talking don't exactly mix,lol.
---ginger on 11/29/10


please post...

//The work of God in the sinner is the application of faith. Faith is the "spiritual muscle" that causes the sinner to believe in God's Word to repent and believe in Jesus Christ for salvation. Therefore, the gift from God to the sinner is Faith.
---christan on 11/29/10//

No, Grace is the gift, Christan.
Faith is already placed in man when he is created. Why else do you think man is told By God NOT to place their faith in the things of man but to place it in the things of God?
But I guess you have never read any of those passages have you?
---ginger on 11/29/10


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But Scripture declares: "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

Christan you are as bad as MarkV pulling things out of context or just straight up misunderstanding them.

Notice where the commas are? Well if not then lets break it down shall we..

For by Grace you are saved- this means it is not a work of God that gives you grace but it is already given because Christ died for all sins.

Through faith- because you have shown faith and believed God.
God does not force anyone to believ him or not.


It is a gift of God- It says right here that grace is the gift of God.
But a man made doctrine has clouded your thinking.
---ginger on 11/29/10


For by grace are ye saved through faith,<---(should be a semicolon here) and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Faith is not the gift. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ on your behalf is the GIFT. That was done by Gods grace. It is favor shown towards us (all men) because Christ died for every man. YOU must have faith in Gods ability and promises to save you thru Jesus Christ. That is man's responsibility. Don't try to push that off on God. He has done plenty for us.

(Moderators: semicolons are not showing up in our blogs. They are showing as commas)
---JackB on 11/29/10


//And many after reading these verses, deny election.
---christan on 11/29/10
//

And many wont ever look at who Jesus Christ is talking to when he is speaking and they decide to apply his words to everyone when they arent always directed at everyone.

Jesus brought salvation to the Jews. The Jews were blind to the Messiah except for an elect few thru whom which God selected to spread his gospel. He sent Paul to teach the Gentiles.
---JackB on 11/29/10


I would love to see one man of God who is a Calvinist stand up against these HyperCalvinists and show them the err of their way.

Are there any here?
---JackB on 11/29/10


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Ginger, you convincingly corrected MarkV saying, "MarkV, faith is not the gift.... GRACE IS."

But Scripture declares: "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

There's a difference between grace and faith. The biblical definition of grace is "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

The work of God in the sinner is the application of faith. Faith is the "spiritual muscle" that causes the sinner to believe in God's Word to repent and believe in Jesus Christ for salvation. Therefore, the gift from God to the sinner is Faith.
---christan on 11/29/10


Mercy:
We are the OBJECT of Gods Mercy. We are the OBJECT of His LOVE. Mercy is forgiveness SHOWN to us . If Jesus had not died for my sin, and there was no other way for salvation then to BEG God for mercy, that would be one thing. However, when God so Loved the world He gave His only Begotten Son, that whoso ever believeth in Him will not perish but have eternal life being the only PROVISION for Gods mercy, I believe and receive. If I do not believe Christ was made sin for me, then I guess I would be begging for mercy.
We dont BEG to be forgiven, or to be saved. We thank God in Christ we CAN BE.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/10


I don't think anyone is saying Scripture contradicts itself. The contradiction has to do with how man interprets the Scripture. In the previous posts, there was a contradiction relating to knowing God and eternal life. Knowing God and Jesus Christ His Son IS eternal life. If eternal life is not a present possession of the believer, the believer cannot claim to know God. Man who says he knows God now but has only a promise of eternal life later is presenting an inconsistency of the very Scriptures he says he believes. Asking for an explanation or at least a clarification shouldn't be a cause for evasion tactics.
---SLE on 11/29/10


Dear MarkV, just a comforting reminder from Christ -

John 15:16 "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

18 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."

19 "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."

And many after reading these verses, deny election.
---christan on 11/29/10


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If they come to know Jesus, doctrine will become important to them, as it is to us who desire to spread the truth. We MUST rely on correct doctrine so as not to inadvertantly lead someone astray or to misunderstand the truth ouselves.
---Donna66 on 11/28/10

I have to say i agree with that 100%, because there are actually scriptures to support that. You come to christ because you understand that you a a sinner in need of a saviour, as times goes on you will learn doctrine.


Isaiah 28:9 whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts.
---francis on 11/29/10


MarkV,
faith is not the gift....

GRACE IS.

Jesus became the sacrifice for ALL sin, brother not just yours and mine.

You qouted that the Bible does not contradict and that is true BUT your doctrine contradicts what the Bible is very clear on.
Faith is given to all men for them to exercise as they choose. Grace is given to those who choose to put their faith given to them by God when they believe Jesus. Again, you can't be born again until you believe. You should study the temple of God(us) and understand that the Holy Ghost does not indwell a person until AFTER they repent and believe.
---ginger on 11/29/10


There is only one Truth, the Word of God. It does not contradict itself. Many here, because of their prior believes of faith, will do anything to twist passages which is evidence by when you post a passage, it does not say what you say the passage is saying. You put your own meaning to the passage. What you forget is that there are so many passages that speak of the same topic all through Scripture. What upsets Kathr is that what Scripture teaches is the same Truth Calvin taught, and that just gets her angry. Even when it is correct and proven by Scripture. I teach also what Scripture teaches, so she hates me for teaching the same as Calvin. Then she tries to burn all reformers, not because they spoke the Truth but because she can't stand them.
---Mark_V. on 11/29/10


Kathr, yes it's all about election. Because of God's election, the sinner becomes a Christian and he will believe that Christ is Lord through the gift of faith.

Election is the very heart of the teaching found in Scripture. Only the elect receives salvation in Jesus Christ, prompting Paul to declare "Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: The Lord knows those who are His, and, Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)

You see, election was borne out of God's love. And those you read in the Scripture who believed was because they were elected by God.
---christan on 11/29/10


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//Kathr, why do you trample the Word of God? What Christian gives you is Scripture.
//---MarkV

Every cult uses scripture as well. You can use any combination of scriptures to come up with any set of beliefs. Thats why there are so many denominations.

Its easy to throw away verses or change the words of certain verses to rid yourself of scripture that tear apart your set of beliefs.

Shes not trampling the word of God, just how the word is twisted.
---JackB on 11/29/10


//If that is what you believe, that is not doctrine, but an obsession with a one dimensional understanding unable to learn doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/10
//

Hit the nail on the head
---JackB on 11/29/10


yes, christian, but not ALL scripture is about YOUR ELECTION.
That's the problem.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/10


Kathr, I will only answer your claim, "...those of your doctrine believe EVERY SINGLE VERSE in the bible is teaching election." with Scripture.

Matthew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

2 Timothy 3:16,17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Matthew 10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven."
---christan on 11/29/10


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Kathr, why do you trample the Word of God? What Christian gives you is Scripture. And you condemn him for giving it to you. Don't you see what you are doing? You call the Truth a lie. The very Words of Scripture. You are using your own hatred that has build inside of you that when you think you are opposing us, you are trampling the Word of God. Stepping on it. You do not even discuss the passages right from the Bible. So much hate. So much resentment. Nothing good comes out of your mouth. I would love to see you change. You do not have to believe in election, just change.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/10


christian, I do not see any conflict of interest in what you posted vs. what donna66 stated that anyone any sinner can know understand the Gospel.

I thing I'm beginning to see that you and Markv and those of your doctrine believe EVERY SINGLE VERSE in the bible is teaching election.

If that is what you believe, that is not doctrine, but an obsession with a one dimensional understanding unable to learn doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/10


Francis---But I DO believe Doctrine is important. I did not mean to imply that it is not.
---Donna66 on 11/28/10

I did missunderstand you. I am sorry.
---francis on 11/28/10


John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.", John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Donna 66, you might want to reconsider your stance of "does not require anyone to have correct doctrine".
---christan on 11/28/10


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doctrine noun

Definition:
1. rule or principle: a rule or principle that forms the basis of a belief, theory, or policy
2. ideas taught as truth: a body of ideas, particularly in religion, taught to people as truthful or correct


1. a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Catholic doctrines, the Monroe Doctrine.
2. something that is taught, teachings collectively: religious doctrine.
3. a body or system of teachings relating to a particular subject: the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
---francis on 11/28/10


Francis---But I DO believe Doctrine is important. I did not mean to imply that it is not...only that it is not of interest or necessity to the lost and broken and helpless who are seeking a Savior. And they may be converted without knowing any "doctrine" as such.

If they come to know Jesus, doctrine will become important to them, as it is to us who desire to spread the truth. We MUST rely on correct doctrine so as not to inadvertantly lead someone astray or to misunderstand the truth ouselves.
.
---Donna66 on 11/28/10


Last I checked it was God's Grace that saved through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord. Without Grace no one is saved. No matter how much they say they are.
Grace is the manifestation of God's love and mercy toward sinful men (2 Cor. 8:9, Tit 2:11). Grace functions totally apart from human merit or works, it rest completely in Christ (Eph. 2:8,9). Divine Grace provides not only salvation but security. This is accomplished by the continuation of the dvine work of grace despite the believer's imperfection. Eph. 2:8, reads literally. "By grace you are saved and continue to be" Grace also leads the believer into the Divine will and the good works which the Author of grace has previously planned that he should accomplish Eph. 2:10.
---Mark_V. on 11/28/10


Donna66 you may not believe it yet, but without doctrine no one would be saved. Someone had to teach you the doctrine of salvation, the doctrine of redeemption, the doctrine of christ, of baptism, and so on for you to have accepted christ.

If you or I do not have the right teachings. DOCTRINE, we will not make it to heaven.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
---FRANCIS on 11/28/10


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Thanks be to God that He does not require anyone to have "correct doctrine" or even know what "doctrine" is, in order to be saved. (yes, steven, people are saved from something...eternal separation from God.)

The simplest un-churched person can understand what sin is and how it separates them from God. That Jesus was the sinless son of God who willingly took upon Himself our sin and the punishment we deserve...is not complicated.
Even a child can pray with faith for forgiveness and the new life that Jesus gives. Anyone who sincerely seeks this new life in Jesus, is "predestined" (or not, if you are a free-will person) to be a child of God.

This truth is central to all "doctrine".
---Donna66 on 11/27/10


A DOCTRINE is a teaching on a single subject matter.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2 Of the DOCTRINE OF BAPTISM, and of laying on of hands, and of RESURRECTION of the dead, and of eternal JUDGMENT.

A brief study of " doctrines" would tell you that without doctrine (espcially the doctrine of who the christis) one could not be saved, and all their worship would be in vain.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for DOCTRINES the commandments of men
---francis on 11/27/10


Catherine has a new name I see...
---JackB on 11/27/10


Do you really believe you can be "Saved" (from something ?) just by A. Feeling bad about yourself and B. Asking "Jesus" to forgive you for whatever ? "correct doctrinal beliefs" won't save you from the "Hell" that incorrect doctrinal beliefs Create. Wake up ! salvation can only come to those in need and I am quite sure your correct doctrinal beliefs have not only saved you from "something" but have supplied you with "something" to be saved from. Woo Hoo !
---steven on 11/27/10


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JackB: "Last I checked it was faith in Jesus CHrist that saved.... not what denomination you belonged to."

So very true!

I suppose that there are some who believe in salvation by denomination, but I am not one of them. The predestinationalists believe that some of us are not eligible for salvation. Strangely, they never consider themselves in that category.
---jerry6593 on 11/27/10


I too agree that JESUS SAVES

JESUS SAVES
---kathr4453 on 11/27/10


Last I checked it was faith in Jesus CHrist that saved.... not what denomination you belonged to.
---JackB on 11/26/10


How dependence is our eternal salvation on what we believe regarding correct doctrine? In other words, do we need to have all the correct doctrinal beliefs to have eternal salvation?

The Protestant Reformer Iohn Foxe prayed... Lord, Reforme thy Church with perfecte doctrine and faithfull teachers, that we seeing our owne weakenesse, may put off our selues, and put on him without whom we can do nothing. So shall we stand strong, when nothing standeth in vs, but thy sonne alone, in whome thou art onely pleased.

I love this prayer request.
---Kev on 11/26/10


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If you were not doing it right God would have never selected you to be a member of his family. And you were select by God billions of years before the creation process of the universe started as he as total knowledge of all you will ever do or fail to do in advance.

Christ's death is important because it pays the price for you to move from your former Patria Potesta to God's
---Blogger9211 on 11/26/10


Acts 2 v's 37 - 41 to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost. The Very Same came to us gentiles.

ALL other salvations Are Man - made beginning with the rcc & that inspiration came from here, 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15.
---Lawrence on 11/26/10


1 CORINTHAINS 1:10 Now I beseech you bretheen by the name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, that ye all speak the same thing, and that them be no divions among you. but that ye be prefectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
---RICHARD on 11/26/10


the bible said that whosoever believes in Gods son Jesus , & confesses his name as saviour, he will have eternal life. Studying correct doctrine (the sound doctrine) comes afterwards & yes once we know what the sound doctrine is we should stic kwith it, but Jesus alone is the doorway.
---candice on 11/26/10


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A person's salvation does not depend upon the doctrine he holds. Personal salvation depends upon what one believes about, and has done with the Lord Jesus Christ.
---mima on 11/26/10


Since the word of God says that we should all believe and speak the same thing it is very important.
---Frank on 11/26/10


If it's done in ignorance, that's one thing.

However, if a person consistently rejects sound doctrine after being properly admonished and instructed, yes, he is in danger of losing salvation.
---Cluny on 11/26/10


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