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Are Wars Biblical

Exodus 20:13 says: "You Shall Not Kill". Many folks have been killed in these recent wars / fights:
Falkland Islands, South Korea, Israel, Somalia, Liberia. Does the Bible condone killings done in wars?
What is the proper Christian response to these conflicts?

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Early Christians & War

"While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defense of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes." The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p. 416.

"Put on the complete suit of armor from God...because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but...against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places." Eph 6:10-12
---scott on 12/6/10


Alan of UK -- Actually, Roosevelt wanted to enter the war earlier, but it did not sit well with the American people. We don't know what would have happened without the Japanese invasion, bit it galvanized the American people and gave Roosevelt the opportunity to do what he wanted.

David--It's the same old question of He didn't say "do it" but He didn't say "do not do it", so people assume whatever they wish. We know that Christians are to be gentle and kind-hearted to others...but does that preclude taking up arms against evil that threatens the lives of these same people? Are we our brothers keeper? or not.
---Donna66 on 12/6/10


Scott-- Early Christians may have misunderstood Christ's respose to Peter's use of the sword, as something applicable to all men at all times.
Christ had a very SPECIFIC reason for stopping Peter. Jhn 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? . Christ wanted nothing to interfere with His plan to redeem sinners. This is much more important that the statement about those taking up the sword dying by the sword (which is an obvious fact to soldiers everywhere).

To generalize Christs' instructions to Peter would be like saying that you cannot follow Christ unless you sell all your belongings because that's what He told the rich young ruler.
---Donna66 on 12/6/10


1st_cliff,

Yes Christ allowed Peter to carry a sword. Jesus even told his disciples to buy one if they didn't have one. Luke 22:36. (Josephus indicates that, particularly for Galileans, it was common to carry swords. The Jewish War, Josephus, III, 42 [iii, 2].)

But on the night of his arrest Christ demonstrated clearly that, though they would come into circumstances that could easily provoke armed resistance, he did not intend for them to do so. Rather, Jesus corrected Peter and told him to "Return your sword to its place...those who take the sword will perish by the sword." (Mt 26:52, Joh 18:10, 11)

That counsel was clear, and history shows that early Christians took him at his word, avoiding the use of violence.
---scott on 12/6/10


Psalms 144:1 Blessed [be] the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, [and] my fingers to fight:
---micha9344 on 12/4/10

micha9344, I believe David here was talking aout spiritual warfare. Paul tells us the same, put on the whole armour of God...That armour is Christ. In the OT psalms 91 would also parallel.
Israel OT never fought physical wars except to defend their borders, or that of self defense.

But we do see in the OT Nations fighting against nations, for God's purposes as well.
---kathr4453 on 12/5/10




Judges 3:2 Only that the generations of the children of Israel might know, to teach them war, at the least such as before knew nothing thereof,
Psalms 144:1 Blessed [be] the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, [and] my fingers to fight:
---micha9344 on 12/4/10


Scott, My post about Peter carrying a sword (gethsemane) and Christ not chastising him,was ignored but obviously being "armed" was nothing new.
After walking with the "Master" 3 1/2 years Peter didn't know Jesus' opposition to weapons??
---1st_cliff on 12/4/10


Now here is a statement,

"It was good that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour."
Good that the Japanese attacked Peal Harbor, and thousands died. And the response from Kathr is,

"So here is a case of God sending a hornets nest after one to do God's will. I too believe because we sat around and watched, that God's judgment fell on us to move us to do the right thing!"
Don't you realize what you said? This comes from someone who does not believe that God is Sovereign and in control. Maybe only in control when it fits their theology.
Why not call it what you believe: their attack on Pearl Harbor was just a co-incidence, or how about fate or by chance. That's better.
---Mark_V. on 12/4/10


The 'primitive' or early Christian view-

More pesky historians with their 'agendas'(?)

"In the second century, Christianity...affirmed the incompatibility of military service with Christianity." A Short History of Rome, Ferrero and Barbagallo, 1919, p. 382

"The behavior of the Christians was very different from that of the Romans...Since Christ had preached peace, they refused to become soldiers." Our World Through the Ages, Platt and Drummond, 1961, p. 125

"The Christians...shrank from public office and military service." Persecution of the Christians in Gaul, A.D. 177, Guizot, in The Great Events by Famous Historians, edited by Johnson, 1905, Vol. III, p. 246
---scott on 12/4/10


John the Baptist & the soldiers

John the Baptist was under the Mosaic Law. He was only the forerunner of Jesus Christ, a herald to sound his approach. Likely he was in prison when Jesus spoke some his most notable words on the topic of love.

But John the Baptist did gave the soldiers another direction to follow, i.e. to do violence to no man, Luke 3:14 KJV, RSV, ASV, WEB (Greek - Diaseo)

'Diaseo' (Strongs)

1. to shake thoroughly
2. to make to tremble
3. to terrify
4. to agitate
5. to extort from one by intimidation money or other property

Difficult for a soldier to avoid those things (particularly where the weight of the lexical meaning falls: 1-4) while in battle.
---scott on 12/4/10




"They shall break their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." Isaiah 2:4
---scott on 12/4/10


Frank---Yes, you have made clear now what you meant to say.

In your first statement, I took it you meant "you" and "your" neighbor in the collective, (as in, you all) not individual, sense. And so I took the second sentence the same way.

This just highlights why so many people misapply the command "Do not kill" to nations ... instead of to individuals only.

Otherwise God is quite inconsistent when he commands warfare in the Old Testament.
---Donna66 on 12/4/10


\\The Scriptures, though, do not tell us what Cornelius did after his conversion. There certainly are no biblical references to suggest that he continued as such.\\

Christian tradition says he continued as a soldier, at least for a while.

John the Baptist never told the soldiers who came to him to quit the service--but he did tell them not to bully others, which was considered a perk of the Roman uniform.
---Cluny on 12/4/10


Cluny,

Yes, at the time Cornelius accepted the Christian message he was a Roman Centurian. The Scriptures, though, do not tell us what Cornelius did after his conversion. There certainly are no biblical references to suggest that he continued as such.

There is no record that the disciples told Cornelius what action to take. They didn't have to. No doubt as an intelligent man he would have (as history shows was the case with other 1st century Christians) taken Christ Jesus at his word when he said 'He who lives by the sword would die by the sword.' Matt 26:52

To defend the historical violence of the Church that happened after the simple teachings of our peaceful master Jesus had been forgotten...now there's an agenda.
---scott on 12/3/10


\\"The earliest Christians did not serve in the armed forces...until the decade of 170-180C.E., there is no evidence that Christians served in the army...Only gradually did Christians abandon their opposition to military service."
Christian Century magazine
---scott on 12/3/10\\

How does Cornelius the Centurion (who became a bishop and martyr) fit into this, scott?

And don't forget the many soldier martyrs as are listed in ancient martyrologies and hagiographies.

Sounds to me like your sources have agendas to support.
---Cluny on 12/3/10


It was good that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. If they had not, the USA would not have joined in WW2, and would not have come to help in Europe.
---alan8566_of_UK on 12/3/10

So here is a case of God sending a hornets nest after one to do God's will.

I too believe because we sat around and watched, that God's judgment fell on us to move us to do the right thing!
---kathr4453 on 12/3/10


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Early Christians and war-

"[Jesus teachings] ruled out as illicit all use of violence and injury against others, clearly implied [was] the illegitimacy of participation in war....early Christians took Jesus at his word, and understood his inculcations of gentleness and non-resistance in their literal sense. They closely identified their religion with peace, they strongly condemned war..."
Laurence Vance, Early Christian Attitude to War

"The earliest Christians did not serve in the armed forces...until the decade of 170-180C.E., there is no evidence that Christians served in the army...Only gradually did Christians abandon their opposition to military service."
Christian Century magazine
---scott on 12/3/10


Donna66- I agree God's war of Armageddon is still future- that's my point. There is nothing in the scriptures to say God is backing present day warfare.

You ask, 'But how do you know that God does not still use war for discipline and judgment until then?' But how do you know that God does? God did not agree to all wars. Even if God is using wars today as a means of judgment, where in the Christian scriptures is the command for Christians to take up arms?

'But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil.' 2 Tim.2:24.

A true Christian slave of the Lord picks up a Bible to preach the Good News of God's Kingdom, not an AK47!
---David8318 on 12/3/10


Micha9344,

Your comments are red herrings but since you mentioned Justin-

"There is...another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things who is also called an Angel, because He announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things, above whom there is no other God, wishes to announce to them...He...who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things, I mean numerically, not in will." (Dialogue with Trypho, 56).

More importantly however are the words included in Justin's citation that you posted, regarding Christ:

"He did no violence." Is 53:9 KJV

What must the peaceful Son of God have thought from His heavenly vantage point as he witnessed the violence of the Crusades?
---scott on 12/3/10


Donna66,
You just reposted what I posted about fighting to help a neighbor.
Maybe I didn't post clearly but that means going to war to save fellow countrymen and women such as WWII.
Turning the other cheek is on an individual basis for Christians who believe so.
An example is that I would fight to defend a flock but not myself unless I felt my death would leave the flock with no pastor.
In short, I was in the military and do believe in fighting to defend one's country.
Hope this clears this up.
---Frank on 12/3/10


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It was good that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour. If they had not, the USA would not have joined in WW2, and would not have come to help in Europe.
---alan8566_of_UK on 12/3/10


Frank -- Are you saying that in 1941 we should have ignored the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor, while we sent all our troops to fight for Europe?

Wars are biblical and going to war is scripturally sound if it is to risk losing your life for your neighbor.
When it comes to defending one's self it is better to turn the other cheek and either give place to wrath or overcome evil with good
)

If you had been the American president, how would you have responded?
---Donna66 on 12/2/10


Why quote people you don't believe scott?
Justin Martyr believed in eternal punishment, immortality of the soul, and:
{Hear, too, how He was to ascend into heaven according to prophecy. It was thus spoken: Lift up the gates of heaven, be ye opened, that the King of glory may come in. Who is this King of glory? YHWH, strong and mighty.}--1st Apology Ch 51.
quoting YHWH as a direct reference to Christ.
And Terullian concluded not to serve when the actions were unlawful, but also noted Luke 3:14 and Luke 7
---micha9344 on 12/2/10


Blogger 9211 -- If we were talking about military power alone, I might agree. But that's not it...Remember "the war against terror"? It's like the mole game, as soon as you supress terrorism in one country, it pops up stronger in another. Now that we're concentrating on Afganistan and Iraq, more terrorists are being generated in Pakistan and Yeman.
It would be the same unless we obliterated most countries of the Middle east, which would be in nobodys best interest.We don't need fleas (nor "flees") nor elephants. We need a flood. The surge. But we also need leadership who takes the situation seriously, diligently guards security, and doesn't tell the enemy when we plan to call it quits!

Korea is something different.
---Donna66 on 12/2/10


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Donna66,"shock and awe" was a sand flee operation by comparison I am talking about a real elephant stomp by a bunch of elephants. North Korea, Iran are high on the list for an elephant stomp. Yemen is not as issue as they don't have proximity and effective delivery system and you really can't support something that is no longer exists. Norther Pakistan is about the only political problem area if you stomp Afghanistan, but since most of the Pakistan's central government problems come from Northern Pakistan they might actually appreciate the solution they will still have geographic integrity and a lot less diligences to contend with, we just won't use salting agents there. Operation Elephant Stomp sounds like a great Mission Nick Name.
---Blogger9211 on 12/2/10


David fought the battles for the Lord but when it when it came to avenging himself he passed that on to Solomon.
Wars are biblical and going to war is scripturally sound if it is to risk losing your life for your neighbor.
When it comes to defending one's self it is better to turn the other cheek and either give place to wrath or overcome evil with good.
---Frank on 12/2/10


We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage. (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, p. 254) In his treatise The Chaplet, or De Corona (XI)

When discussing whether warfare is proper at all for Christians, Tertullian (c. 200C.E.) argued from Scripture the unlawfulness even of a military life itself, concluding, I banish from us the military life. Justin Martyr, of the second century C.E., in his Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew (CX): The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1957, Vol. III, pp. 99, 100.
---scott on 12/2/10


Steveng --- sorry, "turning the other cheek" isn't applicable in this case unless a bunch of angry fetuses have attacked the rest of us.
(Actually, I think they would be quite justified!)
---Donna66 on 12/1/10


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David-- I don't argue any at all about Armageddon or about
Psa 46:9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth, he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder, he burneth the chariot in the fire.

But these are in the future.
(Obviously hasn't happened yet) But how do you know that God does not still use war for discipline and judgement until then? He used war in the OT.

Show me from the Word of God that He does not do so now and I'll agree with you.
---Donna66 on 12/1/10


Donna66: "Mike---Are we to "turn the other cheek" to Satan or to those who oppress and murder people by the thousands?"

Americans and christians have been doing "turning the other cheek" for 35 years by murdering 53 million infants - and continue to murder 2 million every year, over 800,000 just in the United States.
---Steveng on 12/1/10


Donna66- It is clear from God's word the Bible (assuming you believe the Bible to be God's word), that the only war which has God's backing and support will be "the war of the great day of God the Almighty... that is called in Hebrew, Har-ma-ged'on"- Revelation 16:14,16.

Armageddon is God's war to end all man-made wars that are fought in vain and accomplish nothing but death and suffering (Psalms 46:9).

Armageddon will usher in Christ's 1000 year reign as 'Prince of Peace' (Isaiah 9:6) and will remove Satan and his demons who through their corrupt political system have fostered illegal wars

Donna- it's not what I know. It's what the Bible teaches! God is not behind any of the diabolic man-made wars seen today.
---David8318 on 12/1/10


Blogger9211-- You dont try to occupy areas with ground forces your force attrition rate will be too high. You sterilize the area and render the area uninhabitable for a protracted period.

Isn't that what "shock and awe" was supposed to do? We had to change to "the surge" in Iraq, because our S & A was not producing the desired effect.. This way we avoid killing all our Iraqi supporters too.
If you set out to "sterilize" an area, that area would have to include Iran, Pakistan,Yemen...in fact, most of the middle east. Right?
---Donna66 on 12/1/10


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David---How do you know that
The only war now sanctioned by God is the one described at Revelation 16:16,
Could there possibly have been a war or two that were in His will that He didn't see the need to tells us about? Or perhaps He has had no need to judge nations, or remove evil dictators since... who knows when?

Mike---Are we to "turn the other cheek" to Satan or to those who oppress and murder people by the thousands? The context of Jesus admonition was regarding interpersonal affairs.
---Donna66 on 12/1/10


Eloy, You're not doing your best thinking here.
Jesus is talking about "harassment" cheek slapping, hair pulling,spitting etc.
Why do I come to this conclusion? Peter walked with Christ for more than three years yet still ,while in Gethsemane, he carried a sword!
Jesus would have told him a long time before "get rid of that weapon". He only causioned him about using it
---1st_cliff on 12/1/10


.Eloy, You're not doing your best thinking here. Jesus is talking about "harassment" cheek slapping, hair pulling,spitting etc.Why do I come to this conclusion? Peter walked with Christ for more than three years yet still ,while in Gethsemane, he carried a sword! Jesus would have told him a long time before "get rid of that weapon". He only cautioned him about using it.
Why would Peter not know Christ's stand on using weapons after 3 1/2 tears of "close association?"
---1st_cliff on 12/1/10


The only war now sanctioned by God is the one described at Revelation 16:16,

"And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har-Ma-ged'on (Armageddon)".

Who are 'gathered together' by Satan and his demons to wage war with God? Rev.16:14 says it's 'the kings of the entire inhabited earth', who are gathered in opposition to God. The very Kings who today promote warfare on an industrial scale.

At Armageddon, Jehovah God will make "wars to cease to the extremity of the earth" (Psalms 46:9) through the removal of these 'kings'.
---David8318 on 12/1/10


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israel the chosen people of god are swift to retaliate when it comes to their survival.
does not that contradict the 'turn the other cheek'?
so does god condone this practice? you tell me
---mike on 12/1/10


How many wars could have been averted, if the world had listened to God, and waited. If these war planners had been taught by their mamas and pappies, to wait. Hello Jesus, welcome, I am Catherine, spokeswoman for the living God. You may not agree with everything that I say, but I speak from the heart of God. How many of you want to be a goat, raise your hand. How many want to be a sheep, raise your hand. If the living God is drawing you into an relationship with Him that will last through-out eternity come forward, now. Make sure that it is God. We don't want no goat walking out of here believing a lie. Hallelujah. On Judgment Day God will separate the sheep form the goats. I pray that you will not be in the goat line. Hallelujah.
---catherine on 12/1/10


blogger9211...I kinda liked what you said, but, I didn't understand any of it. Oh, Well!
---catherine on 11/30/10


to the adultress:
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
to the soldier:
Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence(diaseio-to terrify) to no man, neither accuse [any] falsely, and be content with your wages.
to the centurion:
Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Why did He not say the same to the soldiers that He said to the adultress?
---micha9344 on 11/30/10


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When fighting terrorist, you need to use the aspects of Counter Value Area Denial Targeting, You dont try to occupy areas with ground forces your force attrition rate will be too high. You sterilize the area and render the area uninhabitable for a protracted period. The local indigenous population is eradicated and the geographic area is made un-exploitable by others powers. You have to be prepaired to accept high levels of collateral damage it is the nature of the tactic but your force attrition rate is minimized and that is what counts.

It is much like fighting cancer, you have to be prepared to lose a lot of healthy cells to get rid of all the cancer cells.
---Blogger9211 on 11/30/10


Real men obey Jesus.
---Eloy on 11/30/10


1st cliff, you err. God detailed exactly what he meant. He was giving us his New Law which opposes the old law: "And if harm follow, then you will give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. And one who kills any person will surely be put to death." Ex.21:23-25+ Lv.24:17-22. "You all have heard that said, Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth: but I say to you, revenge not whom bad, but if anyone strike you on the right cheek, turn to whom your other...I gave my back to the smiters, any my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." Mt.5:38,39+ Is.51:6.
---Eloy on 11/30/10


I say, yes, I say, don't broadcast it surprise them. Broadcast it, the enemy guns is pointing right at us. Tell Washington. Hallelujah. bang, bang, three Americans shot. Oh my God how we need you,. our heads are held high cause, you are a helping us. WE NEED YOU, MY GOD....Ha, Ha. Hallelujah...."There is joy in the camp". Hallelujah, thank You Jesus+ Ahh Jesus, Americans love You. The trues, yes.
---catherine on 11/30/10


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1st cliff, you err. God detailed exactly what he meant. He was giving us his New Law which opposes the old law: "And if harm follow, then you will give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. And one who kills any person will surely be put to death." Ex.21:23-25+ Lv.24:17-22. "You all have heard that said, Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth: but I say to you, revenge not whom bad, but if anyone strike you on the right cheek, turn to whom your other...I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." Mt.5:38,39+ Is.51:6.
---Eloy on 11/30/10


Eloy, a slap on the side of the face is an "insult" not aggression, This is what Jesus was referring to, Christians do not react to insults (slaps) but turn the other cheek
Now a punch in the face is a totally different matter, and one needs to defend himself or become injured!
---1st_cliff on 11/30/10


God can certainly show our government how much we need Him in winning WARS...The tactics of war was simple. They included surprise, ambush, I don't remember us ever ambushing our enemies while we are going into war. God knows how to win wars, without much blood lost, without spending much money, we can hold our heads up, because, we have God, helping us. Another one is pretended flight, And surrounding the enemy. You find all This information on how to win wars as follows>>[Gen. 14:15,Josh 8:27, 2 Sam. 5:23]. On occasions a representative of each army met in combat, and you can see this in the Holy Bible written by the one, true, Holy God. I thank You Jesus. Ya ll, have a good day.
---catherine on 11/30/10


Donna66 ref. you blog of 11/28/10, You are correct, the concept of Credible Deterrence prevent a nuclear exchange during the Cold War because we were dealing with the Soviet Union and survival of their nation was important to them.

Currently we are at war with a religious idea not a nation the combatants are willing expend the own lives by blowing themselves up in acts of terrorism, the continuance of National Sovereignty is a non-issue as their goal is to perpetuate an Idea so the threat of deterrence is not effective against them.

They have to be hunted down an eradicated, every man woman and child as their off spring will cause us problems in later years. This is something we cannot coexist with.
---Blogger9211 on 11/30/10


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Correction: That is Josh. 8:2,7, and 1 Samuel 17, just in-case I forgot to include the last Scripture.
---catherine on 11/30/10


Donna66, A-men. A pacifist does not believe in "killing" another human being. This is not considered nonBravery, for God does not call a person nonbrave nor weak when they turn the other cheek when struck, on the contrary it takes self-control and bravery to turn the other cheek when struck. There are brave men who strike back when struck, and there are brave men who turn the other cheek when struck, both are brave and neither are cowards. Jesus our Almighty God did not likewise beat and nail his enemies up on a crosses in retailiation, for one soul destroyed is better than two, and one eye than two, and one tooth than two.
---Eloy on 11/30/10


Donna66, A-men. A pacifist does not believe in "killing" another human being. This is not considered nonBravery, for God does not call a person nonbrave nor weak when they turn the other cheek when struck, on the contrary it takes self-control and bravery to turn the other cheek when struck. There are brave men who strike back when struck, and there are brave men who turn the other cheek when struck, both are brave and neither are cowards. Jesus our Almighty God did not likewise beat and nail his enemies up on crosses in retaliation, for one soul destroyed is better than two, and one eye than two, and one tooth than two.
---Eloy on 11/30/10


As long as there is sin in the world there will always be wars. They have not stopped from the time God brought enmity Genesis 3:15. As a matter of fact, God brought war many times against the nations opposed to Israel. All to reach a certain end that God had ordained. For nothing happens without God either allowing it or permitting it to happen. Evil will always be against good. There has not been a time when no one was at war. Small nations fight for their survival and many don't even know. Many of God's people have been to war from the beginning of time.
---Mark_V. on 11/30/10


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StevenG ---Either you can answer my questions or you can't. Yes, I'm absolutely sure I am a Christian.
---Donna66 on 11/29/10


Donna66: "StevenG ??Today, wars are for evil purposes for the world is full of evil. This is an interesting idea."

Donna66: "Was the world not full of evil on Old Testament Days?"

What does scripture say about the end times?

Donna66: "Were the wars then just Spiritual Warfare? (Hard to explain all the weapons and blood if they were)."

Are you sure you're a christian?

Donna66: "How can you be sure God no longer uses war to bring judgement?"

Man could destroy the world by himself.
---Steveng on 11/29/10


Eloy--
I imagine few who post here know much about "conscientious objectors", since we had them only when the draft was in effect. Following the VietNam War, anybody who objects to fighting doesn't join the military.

I remember a few conscientious objectors from when I served early in the Viet Nam War. They performed their assigned duties well and didn't argue about the war. I came to respect them.

Fortunately, now, even though "pacifism" has become
popular, we still have enough brave and dedicated young men willing to defend the country if needed.
---Donna66 on 11/29/10


The 'primitive' or early Christian view-

1st and 2nd century Christians "...Refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire...it was impossible that the Christians...could assume the character of soldiers." - History of Christianity, Edward Gibbon, pp. 162,163.

"A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [121-180C.E.], no Christian became a soldier, and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service." -The Rise of Christianity, by E.W. Barnes, 1947, p. 333
---scott on 11/29/10


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If every soul on earth was a true born-again Christian there would be no more wars, but only Christ's love being expressed towards one another: for you cannot love your enemies and kill them too, you cannot turn the other cheek when struck and strike back also. O that the white flag of truce be flown throughout the lands: "And he will judge among the nations, and will rebuke many people: and they will beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruningshears: nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war any more." Is.2:4.
---Eloy on 11/28/10


StevenG ??Today, wars are for evil purposes for the world is full of evil.

This is an interesting idea. Was the world not full of evil on Old Testament Days?
Were the wars then just Spiritual Warfare? (Hard to explain all the weapons and blood if they were). How can you be sure God no longer uses war to bring judgement?
---Donna66 on 11/29/10


The battles in the OT were between God's people and His enemies. These "armageddon" wars is now pointing towards a spiritual war when the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached.

Ephesians 6:11,12 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

16 "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."

As for the wars mentioned, Sag, it's God's way of punishing and destroying unbelievers toward His Word.
---christan on 11/28/10


Most people, including christians, believe that the sixth commandment says "thou shalt not kill." If this were so, God would be going against his own commandment and, therefore, a hypocrit. The truth of that commandment is "thou shalt not murder."

So why did God allow the slaughter of people in the OT? It was to purify the land God gave to his people and to keep the line of David clean until the birth of Jesus.

Satan had all the intentions to defile the land and break the line of David to keep Jesus from being born. It was spiritual warfare.

Today, wars are for evil purposes for the world is full of evil.
---Steveng on 11/28/10


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Blogger9211--//Warfare is simply an extension of diplomacy the threat of its use constitutes moral suasion.// Right you are! A nation bent on warfare is never discouraged from it by the Lets-sit-down and-talk strategy. It is an opponents military power and the willingness to use it, that dissuades them..

The God of the OT who wrote the commandment "thou shall not kill" also commanded His people (Deu 20:16) But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
God is a God of mercy---but also of judgement. And He often uses wars to exact His judgement.
---Donna66 on 11/28/10


Wars are biblical. There were many throughout the old testiment. There were many in the new testiment but God chose to record (divine inspiration) the birth and life of Jesus Christ, His teachings and the comforter plus the first church. These were much more important. The old testiment records the lineage of Christ and how the devil tried to kill the bloodline.
---shira3877 on 11/28/10


Bill While a country has an industry of slaughtering her own unborn citizens, she can not at the same time conduct an efficient and effective war.

Would that this were true. (It SOUNDS as if it should be true, but unfortunately it is not) The Nazis killed millions of it own citizens (mainly Jews) in cold blood and went on to conquer all of Europe.

More recently, Saddam Hussein gassed to death a whole village of his people , plus causing the beheading and mutilating anyone who opposed him. This did not stop him from
forcefully (an almost successfully) taking
Kuwait.

Both cases involved widespread murder of people that certainly included the unborn.
---Donna66 on 11/28/10


Wars may be biblical but they are also a result of sin.

The problem now is that people refer to God's commands to Joshua and other patriarchs in war and declare by God their particular war is righteous.

War is murder.
---larry on 11/28/10


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Defending yourself is acceptable, and defending your home or homeland against violaters and marauders is also acceptable. But not all men are aggresive nor can they be given a gun and taught to be bloody men when they are gentle-men. The army knows this, and I think that nonRough men are called "conscientious objectors" or "passivists". And God showed this distinction in the two kinds of people to Gideon in Judges 7:5-7, where he chose only 300 warrior men out of all the men to go to war with Gideon against the over one hundred and thirty-five thousand Midianites and Amalekites Judges 7:12+ 8:4,10.
---Eloy on 11/28/10


Augie: The USA can't take care of other nation's problems when it can't solve it's own.

While I agree with you that Bill's comment was a bit too strong,I think your statement is incorrect. Since no country in the world can solve it's own (being fallen people etc) that would suggest that no country should take care of other nations' probems, and, as result, we should take the same for people as well, and state that no-one should take care of other people's problems, which is incorrect

I understand why you say it, but I feel you go too far
---Peter on 11/28/10


While a country has an industry of slaughtering her own unborn citizens, she can not at the same time conduct an efficient and effective war.
---Bill on 11/28/10

I often find myself softly giggling when I read news reports about both "abortion protests" and "anti-war protests".

I think that it is very counter-productive for the USA to be spending increasing $$$ on the military and wars, while families, schools, and programs for children suffer cutbacks.

Clearly, the USA's national priorities are goofed up. Little wonder many people, and other nations, don't have much respect for us anymore.

The USA can't take care of other nation's problems when it can't solve it's own. Period.
---Augie on 11/28/10


In studying I found out a while back that God did not have in mind wars in "Thou shalt not kill, of The "Ten Commandments"....There is a Scripture, praise the living God it's in there somewhere, It goes like this, "There is a time for war, and a time for peace", there is a time for ect, ect. Hallelujah. Ha, Ha. I believe that's in ECClesiastes, is it not?
---catherine on 11/28/10


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"While a country has an industry of slaughtering her own unborn citizens, she can not at the same time conduct an efficient and effective war . . . if she does not have the character to defend her own unborn."

In Luke 9:51-56, we see what Jesus said to His disciples when they asked if they should call down fire upon people who did not receive them: "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them."

And if a nation is destroying her own unborn while pointing the finger at the inhumanity of other countries, Jesus "might" say, "Let the one without sin cast the first stone."
---Bill on 11/28/10


Cluny, do you really think that Covent Deception and Strategic Misrepresentation are modern tools in the international geopolitical arena. Ancient Israel used to deliberately inflate their military strength and leak the data so other nations would not attack them.

Joshua did not negotiate for the land of Canaan, they concerned it and stole it everything from the former inhabitants then slathered those inhabitants, men, women, and children.

The responsibility of nation states is to protect their populous and take actions as they my deem appropriate to promote their economic best interest and long term survivability of the regime in power. Warfare is simply an extension of diplomacy the threat of its use constitutes moral suasion.
---Blogger9211 on 11/27/10


\\The Ten Commands are only applicable to Individuals never Nation States.\\

In other words, nation states can bear false witness and steal.

Is this what you are saying?

---Cluny on 11/27/10

Yes. Thanks for your input.
---Sag on 11/27/10


The Bible teaches that we have the right to self defense, Exodus 22:2: "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no blood guiltiness on his account." Also:

(Exodus 15:3-4).
"The Lord is a warrior, The Lord is His name.Pharaoh's chariots and his army He has cast into the sea, And the choicest of his officers are drowned in the Red Sea,"

God uses war to discipline nations and to
provide protection for the innocent (as in the above example). Some of the wars in which the US has been engaged has been of this latter type, coming to the aid of oppressed people who could not, on their own, throw off their yoke of bondage or preserve their freedom.
---Donna66 on 11/27/10


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\\The Ten Commands are only applicable to Individuals never Nation States.\\

In other words, nation states can bear false witness and steal.

Is this what you are saying?
---Cluny on 11/27/10


God sanctioned may wars of Israel in the Old Testament. In some instances God even demanded genocide, the killing of woman and children to prevent the descendants from coming back in future years to attack Israel.

The Ten Commands are only applicable to Individuals never Nation States.

In relation to thou shall not kill replace kill with assassinate and you will be closer to the proper rendering. I means lying in wait to kill.

After the conquest of Canaan by Joshua, the problem was intratribal blood feuds were running ramped and that is the reason for the establishment of cities of refuge.
---Blogger9211 on 11/27/10


Part I: The concept of a "just war" has been around for centuries, Jus ad bellum (the right to go to war) and jus in bello (how war is conducted)
Basic premises are:
Just cause: Is the reason for going to war justified?

Comparative justice: The injustice suffered by one party must significantly outweigh that suffered by the other.

Legitimate authority: Only duly constituted public authorities may wage war.
---NurseRobert on 11/27/10


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