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Did Jesus Save Us From Law

Did Jesus come to save us from the Law?

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 ---jerry6593 on 11/29/10
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All 10 commandments, dietary law, sexual morality laws after death of Jesus
1: NO OTHER GODS (Matt 4:10)
2: NO IDOLS. (1Cor 10:7))
3: NAME IN VAIN.(1Tim 6:1)
4: SABBATH.Acts 15:21 ( ALSO see hebrew 4 9-10, acts 13 41-42, matthew24:20, Rev 1:10)
5: HONOUR PARENTS(Eph 6:1-3)
6: MURDER (James 2:11)
7: ADULTERY.(Heb 13:4)
8: THEFT(Eph 4:28)
9: LIE(Col 3:9)
10: COVET, (Heb 13:5)
A: dietary laws Acts 10:14 1 Timothy 4:4-5, 2 Corinthians 6:17 ref lev 22:5
B: Sexual morality laws Romans 1:27

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him,
---francis on 12/5/10


It is a shame because they do not want to move forward in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/10

Mark
As I have said before, If one is to believe what you teach, they would have to discount all that Jesus taught.

Your teachings are not founded in the Gospels of Christ, and that is where the shame should be.
Make your case in the Gospels.
If you can not make your case in the Gospels, it is best for you to ask yourself, why?

"The house you have built, has been built on the sand".
---David on 12/5/10


Romans 3:31ASV Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

to establish: ascertain (formal), determine, find out, prove, verify, show, corroborate, authenticate, confirm

But is not your problem the fact that you believe all laws found within the Old Covenant are applicable to the Christian, effectively that he must be circumcised, do the temple worship, restrain from eating certain foods, do the Sabbath etc.?

Was it not very terrible that the Apostles and their associates did not mandate circumcision and observance of the laws of Moses to Gentile converts? Acts 15:5
---leej on 12/5/10


leej, you stated a whole lot here, but said nothing really.

If you use the law as a rule of thumb after you are saved, how can you intelligently defend the CROSS? You can't. Your superior intelligence is getting in the way of the cross, and the finished work of Christ.

Rather than using your Apologetic superor intelligence to defend your superiority over others less intelligent, use it to defend the Cross., and the Power of the cross, unless that is foolishness to you as is to all who are perishing.

Ignorant men say the Power of the cross is foolishness.
---kathr4453 on 12/5/10


Jer 4:22 My people are fools,
they do not know me.
They are senseless children,
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil,
they know not how to do good.
---David on 12/5/10




One problem seems to be that some people do not know what SIN is.

So here it is:
1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 3:20 by the law is The knowledge of sin.
Romans 14:23 whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

The other problem seem to be that some do not know what it means that Jesus fulfilled the law. They believe that when Jesus fulflled the law, he did away with the law which tells us what sin is.

I am hoping that some of you are humble enough to say that you truely do not understand why the apostle pauls says we have to establish the law, although Jesus filfulled the law.

Then we can have an honest discusion.
---francis on 12/5/10


Being under the law means being under the curse of the law. When man sinned the penalty of his sin is death. In the Old covenant, that death was demonstrated by the killing of an animal. Christ, being the lamb of God shed his inocent blood for our sins, now we are no longer bound by the law of sin and death, our sins have been pain for by the death of christ.

The questions are asked in OT and NT:

Romans 6:15 Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Answer is NO!

Romans 6:1 Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Answer again is NO!.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we ESTABLISH the law.

Answer is NO!
---francis on 12/5/10


Jerry - did Jesus come to save us from Sin or from the Law?

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

To redeem: release, liberate, free, emancipate, deliver, rescue, save

Your favorite verse, Mt 5:17 simply tells us the mission of Christ was to fulfill the law, and he did, if not then we are still under the 600+ laws of the Old Covenant such the deitary laws, the Jewish Sabbath as well as other UNIQUE laws pertaining only to Judaism.

To fulfill: - carry out, execute, follow, obey, complete, comply with, accomplish, perform, implement, discharge (formal)
---leej on 12/5/10


Some of you are defending an unbiblical position: That because Jesus died for your sins,and we are not under the law that we no longer have to keep the Law.

There is a LOT of hypocracy in your defence and you know it. If two men came to your church and wanted to be married you would never say that they were free to marry because they are under grace and not under law.

the longer you maintain your position againt the law of God is the more your heard and mind will ne hardened againt the law of God.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---francis on 12/5/10


Jerry, theway I see it is this,

Jesus had to fulfill the Law so that HE COULD SAVE US FROM SIN.

You see, Jesus fulfilled the penalty the law. The LAW showed us ALL WHY we deserve death, because no human could measure up to it. The Law reveals God's righteousness. and that human man could never measure up to GOD in any way. Man fell short.


Now we are told, if Christ was not made sin for us, died in our place and rose again, WE WOULDS ALL STILL BE IN OUR SIN! 1st Cor 15.
---kathr4453 on 12/5/10




Rom 6:14 for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
..micha9344
1 Corinthians 8:6 there is but one God,
1 Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters,
1 Timothy 6:1 that the name of God be not blasphemed
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,
Galatians 5:21 murderers, shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Hebrews 13:4 adulterers God will judge.
Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more:
Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another
Hebrews 13:5 be without covetousness,

Not being UNDER THE LAW, means that christ has paid for our sins, it does not mean that we can sin.
Romans 6:1 Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
---francis on 12/4/10


Romans 6:15 shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith?

In all the passages were the bible says " we are not under law but under grace." It never says that we can break the law of God. It lets us know that we are no longer required to shed blood* because Jesus has shed his blood for us. Romans 6 lets us know that just because christ has died for our sins does not mean we should continue in sin, infact because we understood the reasons for his death: OUR SIN, we should live righteous lives and not fall into sin.

Romans 6:15 shall we sin, because we are not under the law,? God forbid.
John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.
---francis on 12/4/10


Actually, the blog question SHOULD read:

Did Jesus come to save us from SIN or from the LAW?

The Bible answers:

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their SINS.

1Ti 1:15 ... Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINners

Mat 5:17,18 Think not that I am come to destroy the LAW, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the LAW, till all be fulfilled.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the LAW through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the LAW.
---jerry6593 on 12/5/10


Macha, great answers, but I know they will not do any good to Francis and others who are under the law. It is a shame because they do not want to move forward in Christ. And if they have moved forward, they want to still be under the condemnation of the law. They are like the Jews who had converted to Christianity, who didn't understand what it was to be in Christ. All those who are not in Christ are still under condemnation of death under the law. They asked the same questions like Francis, can anyone in Christ still sin and be saved? All sin and come short of the glory of God, but not all are in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/10


//Jimmy baker, Jimmy Swarget, Ted Hargard all very prominant men in the christian movement all claimed not to be under the law, years later they all came infront of TV audience and claimed they had sinned.
How could they have sinned if there is no law?
Romans 5:13 but sin is not imputed when there is no law.//

francis, many professing christianity have never been crucified withh Christ. You see, if the TRUE Doctrine of Grace were taught, OR if one is truly saved BY GRACE, our old man is crucified with Christ. Paul clearly said shall we continue to sin...answer NO! And tells what REAL Saved by Grace and living by GRACE means.

leej and markv and many others deny THIS GRACE,and cannot answer properly!
---kathr4453 on 12/5/10


Rom 6:14 Ye are not under the law, but under grace.
---micha9344 on 12/4/10

Micha,
When Paul talks about being Under the Law, to whom is Paul addressing in those statements?
Since you and I were never under the law of Moses, it should be quite obvious, that Paul is talking to those who were Under the law of Moses, That being the Jew.

Now since Paul is not talking to us, are we under no Law?
Are we not under the Law of Christ?
What is the Law, and why does God give us Laws in which to live by?

"The Law is God's instruction, to all mankind, as to how one can walk in his ways, so that God will bless our lives, as he did all those people in the past, who walked in his ways".


---David on 12/5/10


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Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
1Cor 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews, to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law,
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
---micha9344 on 12/4/10


micha9344 on 12/4/10
If you knew what you were talking about you would see that it is those like you who refuse to obey God who are called stiffnecked LOL.

---kathr4453 on 12/4/10
If i honour my father and mother, do not steal, kill or lie , covet, commit adultery, do not worship idols,and refuse ro worship other gods, choose like peter not to eat anything unclean and keep the sabbath as god commanded am i UNDER THE LAW?

---Rob on 12/4/10
You are yet to show how SDA do not regard Galatians 2:11-21. Be a man and say something. There are many things in that scripture be a man be very specific.
---francis on 12/4/10


Jimmy baker, Jimmy Swarget, Ted Hargard all very prominant men in the christian movement all claimed not to be under the law, years later they all came infront of TV audience and claimed they had sinned.
How could they have sinned if there is no law?
Romans 5:13 but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Are you supposing that all these catholic priest molesting children is not a sin, because they are free from the law?

PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER THESE QUESTION.
---francis on 12/4/10


I understand what you are posting, but there seems to be a conflict on how the SDA and Biblical Christianity views what Christ did on the Cross.

Is Christ the sin-bearer according to what most believe, or is Satan the sin-bearer as expressed by Ellen White?
---leej on 12/4/10


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"But can anyone see what the 4th soil had the others did not have?"
Interesting question kathr4453. I await your answer.
My answer would be freedom from embedded restrictions.
The Good ground represents the person whose focus in life has been opened by the presence and power of Father's Word to be Freed from the restrictions of a predominately sensually based mentality. Then cultivated to be made soft, pliable and ready to receive the seed of His word, and to allow that word to germinate, produce the fruit inspired thereby, and to bring forth it's harvest for life, unhindered.
---joseph on 12/4/10


WCF (XIX,VI) Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned, yet is it of great use to them, ... as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs & binds them to walk accordingly, ... examining themselves thereby they may come to further conviction of humiliation, & hatred against sin, together with a clearer sign of the need they have of Christ, ...leej//

But leej, isn't that what francis is saying too?
---kathr4453 on 12/4/10


Francis, it seems like you choose to forget I was brought up in an SDA home and I know what is taught.

It seems like you don't want others to know the truth about SDA's
---Rob on 12/4/10


Poor francis really has an obsession with Jewish food laws and the Sabbath being unable to understand the decree made at the Jerusalem council Acts 15.
---leej on 12/3/10

Poor leej, has an obsession with Francis. At least Francis will die healthy. Francis will, die searching, not satisfied with opinions of so called professors or women teachers with authority issues and no defining scriptural witnesses. A mark/sign of time.
Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
---Trav on 12/4/10


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Francis, you asked why I would say the SDA reject the reasons Christ died on the cross. You have just proven why.

You talk about the 27 fundamental doctrines of Ellen G. White and the SDA's.

You have no idea what Galatians 2:11-21 is talking about even though it is "ELEMENTARY" and ls "VERY CLEAR AND TO THE POINT"..
---Rob on 12/4/10


It amazes me how something so simple and true can become so defiled with complication and lies.

We are christians..and yet for many of us we speak as if we don't know what that means..and we speak as if we are "mere carnal men"...not redeemed with the precious life blood of our God.

We claim that we have the very Holy Spirit of God living on the inside of us, yet, when someone mentions the word "law"..we cringe..we revolt..we have problems...without really applying ourselves to understand.

Now I noticed that there seems to be a miscommunication about "the law" and it's place.

Yet if we all just read our bibles with a heart for YHWH we will find that there should not be any confusion.
---L_Will on 12/4/10


This is what Christ was against. The scribes and pharisees...sat in Moses's seat and ordered the people to keep additional laws after their traditions...that burdened the people..that killed their spirits and sapped their strength..thus making them loathe the thought of God and His law.
---L_Will on 12/4/10


But Christ came to show them and all who come after Him the way again..the beauty and joy of God's law and observing it....

And then with a heart full of love..our God did something for us in Christ that was just so full of Grace..

He gave us Himself...He crucified our old, weak, sinful proned nature..with Jesus on that cross and in exchanged..by grace, through faith, He gave us "His" everliving, strong, righteous nature...so that His law will never be viewed as dead stones again..but instead be naturally written on our hearts...and therefore enable us to become living, breathing, walking, "oracle's of God".
---L_Will on 12/4/10


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So really if we really understand just some of what God did for us "in Christ" we will see that the only thing we should be preaching about and speaking against...is the thought of earning Justification and salvation...because none of us qualify period.
---L_Will on 12/4/10


We can't earn salvation or justification by trying to keep the law of God ourselves..because we lack the strength period.

In Adam we all became "dead in SIN" period..and dead men and women can't do nothing, nevertheless earn anything...thus proving Paul's point.."all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".....

We needed life friends, we needed His life..and under the old covenant as well as under the new...all who seen their inability in themselves, but looked to YHWH instead..for their strength and salvation..it's these people who enjoy the beauty of God's law and the awesomeness of His salvation..

There is no law versus grace..but there is a holy trinity of "Law, Grace, and Truth"
---L_Will on 12/4/10


The decree given by the apostles in Acts 15 was the same decree Christ gave..it was nothing new.

Circumcision was a pledge to keep the whole of the old covenant to stand justified in God's sight.

But the apostles knew that Christ did a new thing..he ushered in a new covenant and under this covenant..trying to earn or do anything to recieve justification and salvation through your own strength was not needed nor necessary.
---L_Will on 12/4/10


Francis, why do Seventh Day Adventist claim to be Christians, yet they reject the reasons Christ died on the CROSS? Galatians 2:11-21.
---Rob on 12/3/10

This is a great point Rob, however it isn't just Adventists who are guilty of going back under the law after being saved by Grace. Even if one does not keep the sabbath. To use the law in any was as a rule of thumb for our life after salvation is exactly what Paul said makes God's Grace void.

Grace, or Christ in you brings FRUIT. The law, even in part cannot bear fruit. Christ in you does.
---kathr4453 on 12/4/10


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nothing in Gods Holy Word states Christ came to save us from the law

Christ is the messenger of Gods Kingdom to come to rule earth from Jerusalem when all mans kingdoms (governments) will be ruled by Him when he returns

the blood of Christ reconciled us to The Father in Heaven

professing gentile christians deliberately misunderstand the Levitical sacrificial rituals, the law of Moses and the law of God to promote the idea Christ saved mankind from Gods Holy and Just Laws

Christ was the sacrificial lamb His DEATH saved us from death by sin easily understood knowing it is a future promise 1Corin 15
---Rhonda on 12/4/10


When you have an idea about what Rob or I are talking about then you will know, but we cannot give this to you. Only God can give the wisdom and understanding neccesary for discernment of scripture.
I will continue to pray for all of us to have this and I hope Rob is doing the same.
Please do not be hard hearted and stiff necked as those that fell in the wilderness, but come through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ who enables us to do all things by His strength and be confident that He who has begun a good work in us will finish it until the day of His return.
---micha9344 on 12/4/10


Whis is an OT text.
Micheal and ROd how would you answer this text today in the NT era?
Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,
Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

Would you say that Jesus has delivered you to do these things or that the Love of God contrains you NOT to do these abominations?
---FRANCIS on 12/4/10


Cluny How would you answer someone who wants to have an abortion who claims that Jesus come to save us from the Law.

Or how would you answer two men or two women who want to get married who say in christ there is no male or female and that Jesus fulfiled all the laws so that all the laws are passed away?
---francis on 12/4/10


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-micha9344 on 12/3/10
I truely have no idea what you are talking about, and neither do you.
Did you not see me post all ten commandments from the books of the NT? Or are you pretending that they are not there?
---Rob on 12/3/10
Why would you say that SDA reject the reason why christ died? You need to be more specific with gal 2:11-21 I have no idea what you are talking about.
BUT PLEASE before you post go online read 27 fundermental doctrines. Be 100% sure that you know what SDA teach and believe before you post in error. OK?
Let your answer be well though out, because my answer will come from 27 fundermental beliefs.
Do not bare false witness PLEASE
---francis on 12/3/10


Rob FUNDERMENTAL BELIEF NUMBER 9
In Christ's life of perfect obedience to God's will, His suffering, death, and resurrection, God provided the only means of atonement for human sin, so that those who by faith accept this atonement may have eternal life, and the whole creation may better understand the infinite and holy love of the Creator. This perfect atonement vindicates the righteousness of God's law and the graciousness of His character, for it both condemns our sin and provides for our forgiveness. The death of Christ is substitutionary and expiatory, reconciling and transforming.. (John 3:16, Isa. 53, 1 Peter 2:21, 22, 1 Cor. 15:3, 4, 20-22, 2 Cor. 5:14, 15, 19-21, Rom. 1:4, 3:25, 4:25, 8:3, 4, 1 John 2:2, 4:10, Col. 2:15,
---francis on 12/3/10


//COMPARE
Leviticus 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be HOLY CONVOCATION, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a MEAT offering, a sacrifice, and DRINK offerings, every thing upon his day:

It all goes back to when the Apostles and others had to decide whether Gentile converts has to be circumcised AND observe the laws of Moses. Acts 15:5

The section is clear that such yokes - Jewish laws - that the Apostles themselves were unable to bear(15:10),were not placed on the back of Gentiles.

I do not see how you can argue for laws strictly Jewish (Sabbath, dietary laws) when such was not mandated to Gentile converts. Church history clearly attest to that truth.
---leej on 12/4/10


Your agrements are have already been refuted by God:
Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not, And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
---francis on 12/4/10


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Jesus still fulfilled it all.
We have our commandments in a royal package given us by Jesus Himself and wriiten on our hearts which ironically also covers all the law and prophets, love God and your neighbor. Why make it so complicated and turn back what Christ has brought out?
Doesn't it seem strange to you that our Lord chose commandments from, as you say francis, the law of Moses rather than, as you say again, the Law of God?
Woshipping the 10 commandments of the old covenant is still idolatry.
---micha9344 on 12/3/10


So when we read Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.
COMPARE
Leviticus 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be HOLY CONVOCATION, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a MEAT offering, a sacrifice, and DRINK offerings, every thing upon his day:
Notice other SABBATHS besides the weekly sabbath
Leviticus 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a SABBATH, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
---francis on 12/3/10


Francis, why do Seventh Day Adventist claim to be Christians, yet they reject the reasons Christ died on the CROSS? Galatians 2:11-21.
---Rob on 12/3/10


Yes correct, Jessu came to save us from the curse of the Law, becoming a curse for us. The curse of the law was death.

Now in Christ, the Spirit of the Life of Christ has set me free from THE LAW of Sin And Death!
---kathr4453 on 12/3/10


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So when we read Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.
COMPARE
Leviticus 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be HOLY CONVOCATION, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a MEAT offering, a sacrifice, and DRINK offerings, every thing upon his day:
Notice other SABBATHS besides the weekly sabbath
Leviticus 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a SABBATH, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
---francis on 12/3/10


10 commandments, dietary law, sexual morality laws after death of Jesus
1: NO OTHER GODS (Matt 4:10)
2: NO IDOLS. (1Cor 10:7))
3: NAME IN VAIN.(1Tim 6:1)
4: SABBATH.Acts 15:21 ( ALSO see hebrew 4 9-10, acts 13 41-42, matthew24:20, Rev 1:10)
5: HONOUR PARENTS(Eph 6:1-3)
6: MURDER (James 2:11)
7: ADULTERY.(Heb 13:4)
8: THEFT(Eph 4:28)
9: LIE(Col 3:9)
10: COVET, (Heb 13:5)
A: dietary laws Acts 10:14 1 Timothy 4:4-5, 2 Corinthians 6:17 ref lev 22:5
B: Sexual morality laws Romans 1:27
NO EARTHLY SANCTUARY LAWS IN NT. These laws were fulfilled by christ Hebrews 9:11 Christ being an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands,
---francis on 12/3/10


10 commandments, dietary law, sexual morality laws before moses:
1: NO OTHER GODS: Genesis 2:17
2: NO IDOLS: Genesis 35:4
3: NAME IN VAIN: Genesis 6:2
4: SABBATH: Genesis 2:3
5: HONOUR PARENTS: Genesis 9:24
6: MURDER: Genesis 4:23
7: ADULTERY: Genesis 39:9
8: THEFT: Genesis 31:19
9: LIE: Genesis 3:4
10:COVET: Genesis 3:6
A: dietary laws Genesis 7:2
B sexual morality Genesis 13:13 ref Jude 1:7

BUT NO EARTHLY SANCTUARY BEFORE MOSES ( individaul were making blood sacrifices)\Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle:
---francis on 12/3/10


No! Jesus did not come to save us from God's law...He came to save us from the curse of not being able to keep the law in our own strength..He came to give us His perfect life and nature so that we can now naturally, without fear,...become like Him,... living, breathing, walking laws of God...
---L_Will on 12/3/10


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MARK EATON my point is this: What you are discribing is a condition of SIN, the very same thing which I said. Only you did not realize that what you are discribing was SIN and acused me of not understanding the book of Hebrews. You choose to use phrases as: " fall way"" fleshly garbage" "turn back to their old lives" I just call it SIN, and you are claiming that I do not understand the book of hebrews.

That is the type of comment i would expect from Leej, and micha9344. Their purpose seem to be opposing without understanding. I do not expect that from you. Or should I?

Unless you do not consider "fall way"" fleshly garbage" "turn back to their old lives" as SIN.
---francis on 12/3/10


Mark eaton look at what you are saying: You are using words like " fall way" "repentance," " fleshly garbage" "turn back to their old lives."
I have no issues with these expression, i would say that they are 100% on target.
the only issues i have with what you say, is that you cannot see these as the result of SIN.
When they go back to their old life is it a life of right living or back to the old man of SIN.
When they fall way, do they fall away to rightouesness or fall away into sin.
And what do they need repentanc from right living or sin.

Look at verse 8, if they are in right standing with God why the rejection, why the curse?
---francis on 12/3/10


The author wants to press on to subjects for the mature believer and the author will teach these things, if God permits. Because those who had their eyes opened by God and have seen the grace of God and have tasted the milk of the Word and the Spirit, once they fall away, they cannot be stirred again to repentance. It is as if they crucify Christ again and again because the water of the Word and the Spirit pours over them but instead of growing mature fruit, in them grows a crop of fleshly garbage that will just be burned away.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/3/10

That's exactly the parable of the 4 soils. ONLY the last bore fruit. But can anyone see what the 4th soil had the others did not have?
---kathr4453 on 12/3/10


unless mark has another answer, his answer is THEY TURN TO SIN.
---francis on 12/3/10

What is your question or point? That the ones who turn away from Christ turn back to a lifestyle of sin? The book of 2 Peter describes it as such:

2 Peter 2:20 "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/3/10


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Francis & Mark Eaton
If Jesus put an end to the "curse of the law" (however each of you define that)...wouldn't that mean that we are all free of the curse whether we observe the law or ignore?
---AG on 12/3/10


Mark eaton look at what you are saying: You are using words like " fall way" "repentance," " fleshly garbage" "turn back to their old lives."
I have no issues with these expression, i would say that they are 100% on target.
the only issues i have with what you say, is that you cannot see these as the result of SIN.
When they go back to their old life is it a life of right living or back to the old man of SIN.
When they fall way, do they fall away to rightouesness or fall away into sin.
And what do they need repentanc from right living or sin.

Look at verse 8, if they are in right standing with God why the rejection, why the curse?
---francis on 12/3/10


Hebrews 6:6 what does this verse say?
---francis on 12/2/10

At the minimum, you must start your reading at Heb 6:1.

The author wants to press on to subjects for the mature believer and the author will teach these things, if God permits. Because those who had their eyes opened by God and have seen the grace of God and have tasted the milk of the Word and the Spirit, once they fall away, they cannot be stirred again to repentance. It is as if they crucify Christ again and again because the water of the Word and the Spirit pours over them but instead of growing mature fruit, in them grows a crop of fleshly garbage that will just be burned away.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/3/10


This is mark eaton explaination of Hebrews 6,6
Once these ones turn back to their old lives, nothing can bring them back to repentance and they might as well crucify Christ daily because they bring Him shame at rejecting so great a gift.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/2/10
Now if you TURN back to your OLD LIFE is not a LIFE OF SIN?
Your old man is the man of SIN is it not?
So michael says mark answered right: If this is marks answer is mark not in essence saying that they turned back to a life of SIN. What would they need REPENTANCE FROM?
unless mark has another answer, his answer is THEY TURN TO SIN.
---francis on 12/3/10


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francis//And if we meditate on it, we will see that Jesus died because we ate what he said not to eat, did not keep his sabbath, and did other things he said not to do.

Source: Ellen White and the Great Controversy?

But what do you do with those who do not believe that olde Ellen White had a special annointing to author an addition to the Bible?

Poor francis really has an obsession with Jewish food laws and the Sabbath being unable to understand the decree made at the Jerusalem council Acts 15.
---leej on 12/3/10


---micha9344 did you actually see an explanation of HEBREWS 6:6 by mark eaton?
If you saw one please post it.
NOT hebrews 6:1 or 6:4 but 6:6
---francis on 12/2/10


"Did Jesus come to save us from the Law?" No.
He came to "redeem those who were under the law,... from the curse of the law" Gal. 4:5>3:13
"For the 'law' of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" has freed the believer "from the 'law' of sin and death." Rom 8:2
---josef on 12/3/10


No! As I see it, he made the law so perfect.
That there is no way round it, we are guilty.

So, when you look at another man.
You should know the truth!
So put no difference between us!

Dont look at this as a curse, for it is a blessing.
Well maybe, give it time to sink in!
God has blessed us!

Remember:
A house divided!
And, there is none good but one, that is God!

I love when he said:
If I have told you earthly things and you believe not!
Indeed, how will you believe heavenly things?

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
---TheSeg on 12/2/10


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It seems he had explained Heb 6:6 well the first time francis.
Maybe again in patience and forbearance Mark Eaton, letting the HS do His work in francis' life through the giving of wisdom and understanding.
---micha9344 on 12/2/10


Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The section speaks to Jewish Christians that were considering returning to the Jewish sacrificial system instituted by Moses and thus making that one totally sufficient sacrifice by Christ the Lamb of God to be of no avail. Hebrews 9:26, 10:12.

Many of the Holiness religions (Church of the Nazarenes, etc.) often use this verse in the errant teaching that one may lose his or her salvation for lack of performance - failure to obtain the second act of grace. In other words, you lose out if you fail to obtain by your works a sufficient state of holiness.
---leej on 12/2/10


Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

If you think about this passage, you will see that whenever we sin, it is as if we a crucifing Jesus all over again.
---francis on 12/2/10

This statement demonstrates why you struggle to understand the book of Hebrews.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/2/10

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
MARK EATON what does this verse say?
---francis on 12/2/10


Hebrews 6:6, If you think about this passage, you will see that whenever we sin, it is as if we a crucifing Jesus all over again.
---francis on 12/2/10

This statement demonstrates why you struggle to understand the book of Hebrews.

Heb 6:1 "...let us press on to maturity not laying again a foundation of repentance..."

The ones who have have been "enlightened" as Heb 6:4 tells us, are NOT mature believers. They are the seed of the sower that grows for a season but does not mature and bear fruit. Once these ones turn back to their old lives, nothing can bring them back to repentance and they might as well crucify Christ daily because they bring Him shame at rejecting so great a gift.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/2/10


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Because I am credited with his righteousness(once I receive him) his keeping the 10 Commandments is also credited to my account.

Well said, Mima.
The 10 commandments are a guide to righteousness, but If we could be righteous on our own, Jesus need not have come to die and be resurrected. HIS righteousness alone, is what earns us eternal life.
---Donna66 on 12/2/10


Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If you think about this passage, you will see that whenever we sin, it is as if we a crucifing Jesus all over again.

And if we meditate on it, we will see that Jesus died because we ate what he said not to eat, did not keep his sabbath, and did other things he said not to do.

Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,
Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
---francis on 12/2/10


And in conclusion to all this let me say thank you Lord Jesus.
---mima on 12/2/10
Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,
Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
---francis on 12/2/10


SAVE may not be the correct word to use here. All our righteousness(our ticket to heaven) is wrapped up in the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. Part of that righteousness is the fact that Jesus Christ kept the 10 Commandments. Because I am credited with his righteousness(once I receive him) his keeping the 10 Commandments is also credited to my account. And in conclusion to all this let me say thank you Lord Jesus.
---mima on 12/2/10


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your false doctrine is nothing new:

So you are OK with a little adultery, maybe dishonouring your parents, some theft, a murder or two, making idol to worship, taking Gods name in vain, coveting, a little white lie here and there and ofcourse worshiping other gods?

Is that how you live your life as a christian?

Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,

Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
---francis on 12/2/10


"and you will call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." Mt.1:21.
---Eloy on 12/2/10


The finished work of the Cross saved us from the effects of the Law
---michael_e on 11/29/10


No,Jesus came to save us from sin and death,Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Luke 16:16 The law and prophets were until John,since that time the Kingdom of God is preached,and every man presseth into it. Matthew 5:17 Think not I am come to destroy the Law,or the prophets,I am not come to destroy,but to fulfil. Gentiles weren't under the law of the Old Covenant. This is Gentiles Acts 15:28,29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost,and to us,to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things. That you abstain from meats offered to idols,blood,things strangled,and fornication,from which if you keep yourselves you do well,-. We're under law of love,Mark 12:30,31.
---Darlene_1 on 11/29/10


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Yes.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace.
---Cluny on 11/29/10


No Jesus came saves from the penalty of sin.
I'm truly surprised that:

a. You're still posting these ridiculously loaded questions and

b. That Christianet continues to publish them knowing your intention is to generate strife over your belief that all Christendom should be keeping the Sabbath.

What Sabbatarians fail to mention is that no where in the New testament epistles is the Sabbath mentioned specifically except once in Paul's writings, and in that context he calls it's strict adherence BONDAGE!!! Isn't it peculiar how Jesus never taught to observe the Sabbath? NO it's not to me, I get it, and will get it from you as a result of this post I'm sure. O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you?
---Pharisee on 11/29/10


Yes Jesus came to save us from the law and he accomplished this by fulfilling the law, the law can only condemn, but now that it is been fulfilled it can no longer condemn.
The law remains a guideline for our lives but the law has no power over us today because of what Jesus did on the cross. We must remember that "no man will be justified by the law" so if you keep the law perfectly you still cannot be justified by doing so.
---mima on 11/29/10


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