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Do You Live By The Law

I often wonder how many people on these blogs are still trying to live under the law which was given to the Jews and nailed to the CROSS, Colossians 2:13-23. How many are living by the GRACE OF GOD through FAITH IN CHRIST, Galatians 2:17-21.

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Exodus 23:19 Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
This texts says do not COOK a young goat ( I assume any other animal) In its MOTHERS MILK. It does not say that you cannot have meat and cheese/ milk.
Genesis 18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man, and he hasted to dress it.
Genesis 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them, and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.


Even God/ Jesus ate meat and dairy,

I am not saying that you do not understand the bible, but you did not understand this passage. Kosha law is NOT biblical law.
---francis on 12/2/10


Ignatius
ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS LIKE IT OR NOT
1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.Acts 15:21 ( ALSO see hebrew 4 9-10, acts 13 41-42, matthew24:20, Rev 1:10)
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)
---francis on 12/2/10


"No reasonable arguements can be made for not keeping all ten commandments because they are all commanded in the NT:" (Francis)

While the Holy Apostles instructed early believers on how to reach theosis, they never commanded them to observe the Jewish Sabbath or a any feast for that matter. Acts 15:21 does not say we, Gentile Christians, must observe the Jewish Sabbath with all it's Old Testament regulations. In fact, several New Testament texts teach against such a notion.

It is simply foolish to believe other wise Francis.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/2/10


\\Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. \\

Either Christ has fulfilled ALL of the law, and hence it has ALL passed away.

Or He has fulfilled NONE of it, and we all, including you, are still in our sins.

There is no third alternative, francis.
---Cluny on 12/2/10


kathr4453//Someone posted here, -someone who claims to live by Grace- also adheres to what is called Westminster Confession stating they do use the Law as a rule of thumb to know God's will, yet argue here with those who do the same.

The Christian needs a high regard for the law.

WCF (XIX,VI) Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned, yet is it of great use to them, ... as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs & binds them to walk accordingly, ... examining themselves thereby they may come to further conviction of humiliation, & hatred against sin, together with a clearer sign of the need they have of Christ, ...
---leej on 12/2/10




"Do you wear blended fabrics? NO" (Francis)

Why not? According to Deuteronomy 22:11, it is forbidden to wear blended fabrics. Why do you not abide by this law of God?

As far as not mixing dairy with meat, such a law is part of Judaism taken strictly out of Exodus 23:19, Exodus 34:26, and Deuteronomy 14:21. Do you obey this Jewish dietary law?

It seem very strange that you only obey some of God Laws concerning dietary restriction (given to the Jewish people), etc.

By your omission, you are DISOBEDIENT to God's laws. So you are not pleasing God Francis.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 12/2/10


---Ignatius on 12/2/10
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, Daniel7:25 And he shall.. think to change times and laws:

COMPARE THIS WITH:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
---francis on 12/2/10


To be fair to Francis, Trypho's answer to Justin Martyr was that one should keep all the laws they can, knowing that the Temple was destroyed.

However, I don't know how Francis picks or chooses.
---Rod4Him on 12/2/10


\\To say you can eat what you want by a novice, but a mature christian will reference that in leviticus 23 and Hebrews 9:9\\

What' you're saying francis, is that you pick and choose which of God's 613 mitzvoth you observe.

And you also think your neo-Galatian Judaizing heresy is the mark of a mature Christian.
---Cluny on 12/2/10


Francis,

1) You have ignore our questions concerning your obedience to all of God laws in the written and oral Torah (which is over 600 laws). You pick and choose which laws you want to obey.

2) You have not provided any evidence that Christians need to follow the Jewish Sabbath and Jewish Dietary laws. Scriptures such as Romans 14, 1 Timothy 4:1-3, and Titus 1:15-16 will always stand as leej said, no matter how much you try to discredit Scriptures.

3) The Holy Apostles and their successors never told Christians to obey the Jewish Sabbath.

Sorry, but you fail to prove anything in this blog. You simply will not see the truth because you are spiritually blind. Only Christ can heal your blindness.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/2/10




Col 2:17 shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ.

Earthly sanctuary shadow of Hebrews 8:2 A true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Earthly high priest shadow of Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest
Passover lamb shadow of 1 Corinthians 5:7 Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
light shadow of John 8:12 I am the light of the world:
Shewbread shadow of John 6:51 I am the living bread
Temple veil shadow of Hebrews 10:20 the veil, that is to say, his flesh,
Temple wine shadow of 1 Corinthians 11:25 This cup is the new testament in my blood:
Laver water shadow of John 4:10 Jesus the living water.
circumcision shadow of Romans 2:29 circumcision is that of the heart,
---francis on 12/2/10


Col 2:17 shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ.

Earthly sanctuary shadow of Hebrews 8:2 A true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Earthly high priest shadow of Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest
Passover lamb shadow of 1 Corinthians 5:7 Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
light shadow of John 8:12 I am the light of the world:
Shewbread shadow of John 6:51 I am the living bread
Temple veil shadow of Hebrews 10:20 the veil, that is to say, his flesh,
Temple wine shadow of 1 Corinthians 11:25 This cup is the new testament in my blood:
Laver water shadow of John 4:10 Jesus the living water.
circumcision shadow of Romans 2:29 circumcision is that of the heart,
---francis on 12/2/10


Exodus 25:8 And let them make a sanctuary, that I may dwell among them.

The verse speaks ONLY of the physical sanctuary within the tabernacle built for worship by Israelis.

Francis, IF the early church had taught dietary laws THEN we can believe Christians are restricted in what they eats.

However, what the early church believed was from the teachings of the Apostles and their immediate successors. So you really have to conclude that the Apostles & their immediate successor were WRONG in their teachings as they taught no dietary laws.

Secondly Romans 14:2-3, Mark 7:88f & Acts 15 will always stand as a barrier to what you would believe.

Thus your arguments for dietary laws can only be extremely weak.
---leej on 12/2/10


Some people look atthis text
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body [is] of Christ.

Ad think we do not have to keep the sabbath, and we can eat what we want.

This is not about the ten commandments or dietary laws. There are two OT references for this and two additional NT text. leviticus 23, and Numbers 28/29, The NT references are Hebrew 9: 9-14, and Galatians 3:24-25
Take the time to study and reference colosians 2:16 and 17, I have given you the initial texts: The BASE TEXT IS Exodus 25:8
---francis on 12/2/10


I can allow for a missunderstanding of Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: To say you can eat what you want by a novice, but a mature christian will reference that in leviticus 23 and Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience, Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

So A mature christian wills ee that Colossians 2:16 is not about diet it is about meat and drink offerings and sacrifies
---francis on 12/2/10


Someone posted here, ((someone who claims to live by Grace)), also adheres to what is called the Westminster Confession stating that they do use the Law as a rule of thumb to know God's will, yet argue here with those who do the same. When I saw that I was totally baffled.

Christ is the END of the Law, because the Person of Christ living in you brings you to a higher place (2 Peter 1)...by faith in His promises we becoming partakers of His divine nature.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/10


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No reasonable arguements can be made for not keeping all ten commandments because they are all commanded in the NT:
1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:21
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)
---francis on 12/2/10


Ignatius on 12/1/10
Weak arguement Romans 8:7 the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,

What if i said that you try to please god by:
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.
Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
Deuteronomy 6:5 thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 17:12 No soul of you shall eat blood,
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind
---francis on 12/2/10


Francis,

I feel very sorry for you. Like the Seventh Day Adventists, you wish to please God with your observance of feasts and restriction in diet. You wish to follow the Jewish Sabbath and the Dietary Laws in the third book of the Torah, and command others who under the grace of the New Testament to do the same. But where did the Holy Apostles command the Gentiles to observe the Jewish Sabbath or all the dietary laws of the Old Testament? Howbeit, we find no such thing in the New Testament.

You represent the enemies Saint Paul fought against in the Churches of Galatia. You are a enemy to the Church, and need to be rebuke in the name of Jesus Christ.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/1/10


Do you avoid mixing meat and dairy? TEXT PLEASE FOR THAT

Do you wear blended fabrics? NO

If you are married, do you sleep in a different bed from your wife during her period and avoid intercourse for a week after it is over?

YES
---francis on 12/2/10


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All TEN commandments repeated in the NT
1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:21
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)

Do you guys only read what you want and pretend that God or an apostle changed the law?
---francis on 12/2/10


Your false teaching is nothing new, this sort of thing has been going on for years:
So you are OK with a little adultery, maybe dishonouring your parents, some theft, a murder or two, making idol to worship, taking Gods name in vain, coveting, a little white lie here and there and ofcourse worshiping other gods?

Is that how you live your life as a christian?

Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,

Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?


---francis on 12/2/10


Please for your own sake, find a church that preaches the word of God, instead of Adventism. Leave your love for Satan and accept Jesus as Lord & Savior.

All you want to do is to repeat repeat and repeat the same thing over and over and over again as you are unable to come up with any valid argument ....
---leej on 12/1/10

Yes francis, pick a good Calvinist church and you will WALLA, automatically become one of the ELECT God chose before the foundation of the world. If God didn't pick you, they say you CAN't accept Jesus as Lord and Savior anyway. So what you have to do here is pick a doctrine.

Then you can learn to repeat the same ol same ol same ol stuff they keep repeating.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/10


Yes, not the external law but the law written in our hearts.
---larry on 12/1/10


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Francis - I keep wondering why you select ONLY 10 laws from the Old Testament, why not pick the other 593 that remain?

Do you really think that your salvation lies with your obedience to only 10 commandments?

Is what else God commanded of any less valid?

Of course, you cannot answer since you have no answer.

Please for your own sake, find a church that preaches the word of God, instead of Adventism. Leave your love for Satan and accept Jesus as Lord & Savior.

All you want to do is to repeat repeat and repeat the same thing over and over and over again as you are unable to come up with any valid argument for observing the Jewish Sabbath and other strictly Jewish laws.
---leej on 12/1/10


Francis simply do not get it.

According to Romans 14, Christians need not to fight over which food is acceptable to eat. However, he tell us that not everyone is mature enough in the faith to accept the fact that all foods are clean, and so we should not be a stumbling block to others.

Francis simply do not want to believe Mark 7:18-19, Titus 1:15,16, and 1 Timothy 4:3-5.

Francis simply want to enslaved us Christians into her Jewish yoke of bondage.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 12/1/10


//You still are not able to validate your claims that Christians need to obey the Jewish Sabbath. While the Holy Apostles instructed Christians on how to live a Christian life, no such commandment was given to observe the Jewish Sabbath.

Francis can provide scripture that commands the observance of the Jewish Sabbath and the Levitical dietary laws but our problem is we do not recognize the scripture as written and authored by Ellen White.

Why else did they put her writings on the same shelf with scripture as the Bible does not command the Sabbath or restrict what we eat?
---leej on 12/1/10


\\CLUNY, I pick and choose?\\

Do you avoid mixing meat and dairy?

If not, you pick and choose.

Do you wear blended fabrics?

If you do, you pick and choose.

If you are married, do you sleep in a different bed from your wife during her period and avoid intercourse for a week after it is over?

If not, you pick and choose.
---Cluny on 12/1/10


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Francis,

But do YOU obey all the laws as outline in the written and oral Torah? God mandated over 600 laws to the Jewish people. Do you follow all of God's Laws?

But lo Francis, Christ tell us that loving God with all our heart and soul and your neighbor is fulling all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40).

You still are not able to validate your claims that Christians need to obey the Jewish Sabbath. While the Holy Apostles instructed Christians on how to live a Christian life, no such commandment was given to observe the Jewish Sabbath.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/1/10


CLUNY, I pick and choose?
Ok I pick ALL THESE
EXODUS 20
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.
Leviticus 11:3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.
Leviticus 11:9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.Leviticus 17:12 No soul of you shall eat blood,
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind

you?
---francis on 12/1/10


"Which of these two RESTS do you think remains for Gods people?" (franics)

Read the Hebrews 4 again. There is only one rest that remains for God's people under the new Covenant, and it will be at the end of the age when Christ will come once again, wherein those who are under the New Covenant and have strive to reach theosis will experience the true spiritual rest.

Sorry Francis, but we simply can not validate your claims that Christians must observe the Jewish Sabbath and other percepts of the Old Testament Covenant under the grace of the New Covenant.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/1/10


---Ignatius on 12/1/10
Hebrew 4 talks about two types of rest:
1: rest given by Joshua Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, oshua 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them, the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

2: the rest of the sabbath day: Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Which of these two RESTS do you think remains for Gods people?
---francis on 12/1/10


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All of you people who wants to go back into bondage can do so. That is your right, but Christ has set me free. He whom the son has set free, is free indeed. The OT is a great blessing today and we do learn from the entire bible. But our main focus should be on the NT,today. Especially the Gospels. If we can understand and do what is written in those Gospels, we will do well. So much could still be said about this. Blessings
---Robyn on 12/1/10


Francis

I think you are getting it. Now, read Hebrews 4. There is a heavenly rest in the New Covenant. It is the perfect and final rest of the Kingdom of Heaven. The Sabbath rest in the promised land is the type of the true Sabbath rest Christians will experience at the Parousia.

There remains a Sabbath Rest for those who are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, but it is not the Jewish Sabbath.

Please answer here my former question if you can. Do you obey all the laws as outline in the Written and Oral Torah or just some Francis? Which Laws of God do you choose to obey?

I wonder if you are obedient to EVERY single Old Testament Law. Are you like the Pharisees?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/1/10


If we are talking about Colossians 2 then we need to consider what the text is actually talking about without our denominational bias.--francis on 12/1/10
That is called context francis, something, according to your other posts, do not agree with.
Line upon line..remember?
So, according to you, what that line says is what it says, it matters not what the author wanted it to mean.
You really can't have it both ways, jumping fences, bad one day, good the next...sounds very doubleminded, unstable...don't you think?...of course not..Hold tight to those false doctrines as you sink into the mire weighted down by the yoke of bondage that Jews aren't even able to bear...
---micha9344 on 12/1/10


NO THERE IS NO OBLIGATION, that's the old way where God commanded and the robot obeyed, now there is the new with human choice and reason that begins spiritually and not i the flesh.

When Paul spoke of his righteousness according to commands calling himself a Pharisee of Pharisees as touching the law he was boasting according to the flesh, in his ability to reason the law and physically keep it, the law is love and all things should be born of a proper love for God, no command, no obligation, all things are permissible, but not all things are expedient.
---Pharisee on 12/1/10


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what is nailed to the cross cannot be these,
EXODUS 20
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.
Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
Deuteronomy 6:5 thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Leviticus 17:12 No soul of you shall eat blood,
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind
because they are repeated in the NT
---francis on 12/1/10


If we are talking about Colossians 2 then we need to consider what the text is actually talking about without our denominational bias.

1: Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

2:Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body [is] of Christ.

LETS START TO LOOK AT THE SHADOWS
---francis on 12/1/10


Lets start with the SHADOWS:

Earthly sanctuary shadow of Hebrews 8:2 A true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Earthly high priest shadow of Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest

Passover lamb shadow of 1 Corinthians 5:7 Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

light shadow of John 8:12 I am the light of the world:

Shewbread shadow of John 6:51 I am the living bread

Temple veil shadow of Hebrews 10:20 the veil, that is to say, his flesh,

Temple wine shadow of 1 Corinthians 11:25 This cup is the new testament in my blood:

Laver water shadow of John 4:10 Jesus the living water.

circumcision shadow of Romans 2:29 circumcision is that of the heart,
---francis on 12/1/10


You may try, but you can never succeed.

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all

Act 13:37-39 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
---Donna66 on 12/1/10


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leej,
You sem to be saying Christians are obligated to morally but not literally love their neighbor as themselves....Or to morally but not literally abstain from fornication.

That sounds like schitzo-theology.
---AG on 12/1/10


I believe many tried to live under the Law, and many died under Law,
Rom. 15:4 whatsoever was written afore time was written for our learning.
So we read many died under Law, if we STILL try to live under Law what have we learned?
---michael_e on 12/1/10


In other words, francis, you pick and choose about which of the 613 commandments in the OT you are going to observe.

Do I understand you correctly?
---Cluny on 12/1/10


francis //Can we ALL get on the same page? Which OT laws are we talking about?

While there is an obligation for the Christian to observe moral laws as they reflect the very holiness of God, both the judical laws (those that pertain to Israel's civil laws), and those laws unique to the Jewish religion (such as the Sabbath and the Festivals) were NOT mandated by the early church. Of course, your Bible may have Acts 15 blacked out by order of Ellen White.

Because of the obvious facts, you are wasting your time trying to convince us that we need to observe the Jewish Sabbath and other strictly Jewish laws.
---leej on 12/1/10


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Francis, the answer to you question is found in Colossians Chapter Two. Why don't you read it.
---Rob on 12/1/10
Are you talking about these laws:
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

Colossians 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body [is] of Christ.
---francis on 12/1/10


Can we ALL get on the same page? Which OT laws are we talking about? THESE:
EXODUS 20
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.
THESE:
Leviticus 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
Deuteronomy 6:5 thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
THIS:
Leviticus 17:12 No soul of you shall eat blood,
THIS:
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:
OR IS IT SOME OTHER OT LAWS?
---francis on 11/30/10


The law of the Spirit of Life has made us free from the law of sin and death.
But, when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these having not the law are a law unto themselves. Having the law written in their hearts.
There should be a just weight and an equal balance.
Faith without works is dead just as works without faith is dead.
The works will compliment the faith.
Grace is also balanced out with the fear of the Lord.
The Lord delights in those who fear him and the fear of the Lord is his treasure.
Fear him whom after he hath killed can cast into hell.
---Frank on 12/1/10


leej, living under the o.t. law, is equal to partaking of the leaven of the pharisees, just as the poster posts, and this particular blog along with my reply has zero to do with equating heaven to leaven, none. leej, stick to the topic of the blog, and do not misapply my reply to some nonrelated subject.
---Eloy on 12/1/10


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Francis, the answer to you question is found in Colossians Chapter Two. Why don't you read it.

Then again, I need to remeber you reject every thing written in the Bible if it does not line up with the writtings of Ellen G. White.
---Rob on 12/1/10


\\I would suggest you obey all the laws of the Old Testament starting with having the Rabbi circumcise you and your sons. As circumcision is the entry rite into Judaism, you would then be obligated totally to observe ALL the law of the OT - there are only 603 of them.\\

Circumcision is done by a mohel, not by a rabbi.

And there are 613 commandments in the OT.
---Cluny on 12/1/10


In both translations I found reference to the law being nail to the cross.

---Rob on 11/30/10
Are you referring to these laws which are repeated throughout the NT:
1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:21
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)
---francis on 11/30/10


//folks, help me here a little, are we talking about these laws / commandments.

You need to focus more on the spirit behind the law instead of the actual laws themselves otherwise you are really no different than the Sabbath keeping Pharisees who found Jesus guilty of sin.

The commandments are summarized in that You shall love your neighbor as yourself...., therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Romans 10:9ff

Poor confused Francis - I would suggest you obey all the laws of the Old Testament starting with having the Rabbi circumcise you and your sons. As circumcision is the entry rite into Judaism, you would then be obligated totally to observe ALL the law of the OT - there are only 603 of them.
---leej on 11/30/10


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Leslie, on 11/30/10 you wrote "there is no where in the Bible that says the law was nailed to the cross". So I rechecked the New International Version and the Kings James Versions.

In both translations I found reference to the law being nail to the cross.

If you can't find this in your Bible, it must be because you didn't like it or agree with it, so you ripped it out and threw it into the "GARBAGE".
---Rob on 11/30/10


//There are a lot of people following the leaven, which will leaven the whole lump.

Is Eloy also into baking bread?

Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them, The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

leaven is something not always viewed as bad or detrimental in the Bible.
---leej on 11/30/10


Leej ... "Seems like rather a stupid question in light of what is stated in Romans 6"

I don't think it was s stupid question. It was directed to Candice who said she only obeyed the laws of Texas (and so coulkd commit adultery because that is not against Texan law

It was also addressed to Robyn, who seems to think that we are damned for eternity if we obey the 10C.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/30/10


folks, help me here a little, are we saying that we as christians no longer have to do or not to these laws / commandments?

1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:21
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)

Or some other?
---francis on 11/30/10


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I want to be part of this blog, but i want to be sure we are talking about the same laws. Are these the laws of which he is speaking:
1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:21
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)

Or some other?
---francis on 11/30/10


Pharisee & Robyn,
If I'm reading you correctly (forgive me if I'm not), you are saying everything God commanded his followers to do or not do prior to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles is over and done with....not to be repeated...irrelevant...useless...or even harmful. Right?
If so, that is perplexing.
To me thats like saying everything God called "good" in the OT is irrelevant. Or anything God considered an abomination is over and done with.
How does that jive with the God who never changes?
---AG on 11/30/10


There are a lot of people following the leaven, which will leaven the whole lump.
---Eloy on 11/30/10


//What was nailed to the Cross (the cheirographon) was the record of our sins. The Law (10 C's) point out to us where we have sinned and why we need a Saviour.

Does the 10 commandments alone point out to us all that is sin?

In the story of the Good Samaritan, neither the Levite or priest disobeyed the 10 commandments when they continued on their journey ignoring the man in the ditch.

It is the spirit behind the law that is often neglected as all too many really have a salvation by works thinking God will be impressed with how righteous they are.
---leej on 11/30/10


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//Does that mean that since we are saved, and free from God's laws, we can do those things?

Seems like rather a stupid question in light of what is stated in Romans 6 "By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Those born of His spirit are given a new nature (1 Cor. 5:17) and are indwelt by the Spirit (7:6, 8:4) who abhors sin of any kind.

So you really go against your new nature if you chose to sin and you can expect to fall under the discipline of His Spirit. Read Hebrews 12:6ff
---leej on 11/30/10


Jesus came to put some bite into His laws. The first four has to do with your relationship to God. The last six has to do with your relationship with others. If you love people, you will not kill, or steal, or commit adultery. There is no such thing as private sin. Sin always affects other people.
---catherine on 11/30/10


What was nailed to the Cross (the cheirographon) was the record of our sins. The Law (10 C's) point out to us where we have sinned and why we need a Saviour.
---David_Conklin on 11/30/10


//folks, help me here a little, are we talking about these laws / commandments.

You need to focus more on the spirit behind the law instead of the actual laws themselves otherwise you are really no different than the Sabbath keeping Pharisees who found Jesus guilty of sin.

Romans 13:9-10 The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
---leej on 11/30/10


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>I don't live under the Old Testament Law but under the Law of Love. Love God with all your heart,mind,soul,and strength,and your neighbor as yourself.

When Jesus quoted those the law of love He was quoting from the OT. That's why the 10 C's are moral laws--they are based on the moral principle of love.
---David_Conklin on 11/30/10


folks, help me here a little, are we talking about these laws / commandments?

1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:21
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)

Or some other?
---francis on 11/30/10


It seems that some think there is now no meed to follow the 10 Commandments, because they are part of God's law, which you now say no longer applies.

Does that mean that since we are saved, and free from God's laws, we can do those things?

Candice says she only lives by the law of Texas, so she is free to commit adultery and to covet.

And Robyn, extraordinarily, indicates that if I follow the 10 Commandments, and do not commit adultery or covet, and do my best not to get angry, I am damned for all eternity!

OK boys ... let's GO!
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/30/10


I don't live under the Old Testament Law but under the Law of Love. Love God with all your heart,mind,soul,and strength,and your neighbor as yourself. Neither do I live under all the OT ordinances for they were all nailed to the cross with Christ. I do not have have to follow Religious Laws written on paper for God has written his Law upon my heart.
---Darlene_1 on 11/30/10


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There is NO where in the Bible that says that the law was nailed to the cross, this is man-made tradition so as to NOT follow God, but self. In fact the opposite is true -Jesus said He did NOT come to abolish (do away with) the law, but to fulfill it. In 1 John 2:3-6 says that if you do NOT obey the law, you do NOT belong to God (are NOT a Christian).
---Leslie on 11/30/10


Rob this is a wonderful question. The question should help lawkeepers to truly see themselves. Lawkeepers usually come from people who have a low self esteem and cannot understand that God truly loves them.
---mima on 11/30/10


\\"So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." (Gal 4:31).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 11/29/10
\\

The full meaning of this passage, especially the context, has not yet dawned on dispensationalists.
---Cluny on 11/30/10


I've gone to church with christians who love Jesus and wanted to imitate his lifestyle in everyway possible. In addition to loving their neighbor as themselves they also adopted a Kosher diet and observe Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday night.
I cant know if their hearts were right or if their efforts were approved by God, but their commitment and devotion to their King in the face of ridicule was impressive.
---AG on 11/30/10


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Usually those who attempt to live under the law simply do not understand that the genuine believer acquires a new nature upon regeneration that abhors sin of any kind. As such the believer effectively establishes the law (see the argument in Romans 3,31) and has a high respect for it (the law is holy 7:12). Howbeit, there are those who still believe certain OT laws not found within the New are applicable to the Christian failing to understand the decree issued at the Jerusalem council Acts 15.

But such is the plight of the children of Hagar (Galatians 4:24ff).
---leej on 11/30/10


Rob, help me here a little, do you mean these laws / commandments?

1: Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Matt 4:10)
2: Neither be ye idolaters. (1Cor 10:7))
3: The name of God not blasphemed.(1Tim 6:1)
4: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:21
5: Honour thy father and mother (Eph 6:1-3)
6: Do not kill (James 2:11)
7: Adulterers God will judge.(Heb 13:4)
8: Let him that stole steal no more(Eph 4:28)
9: Lie not one to another (Col 3:9)
10: Be without covetousness, (Heb 13:5)

Or some other?
---francis on 11/30/10


the only law I obey is the States law of Texas(or any other USA law) I am free through Christ. though I can & do celebrate the sabbath on saturday of complete rest & fellowship on Sunday it is not a law requirement for me.
---candice on 11/30/10


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