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Man Co-Redeemer With Christ

Critique this statement. Those who insist that baptism is a part of salvation are expressing the belief that mankind is a co-redeemer along with Christ.

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 ---mima on 12/4/10
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James L -- drown in the baptistry! Yes, that would be the only merciful solution. Because after one has turned from sin, confessed sin, professed faith, committing oneself to God, then baptism... one is saved and has eternal life
...at least for now.

The good news is that God has saved you by His Grace. The bad news is, that from here on, it's all up to you.

Nothing has changed.
For now, you must continually turn from sin, confess sin, profess faith...Lacking this, you will be in the same lost condition you were in before you were saved.
---Donna66 on 1/16/11


Church of Christ teaches that salvation can only come after turning from sin, confessing sin, profeesion of faith, committing to God, then baptism. All that to take care of past sin.

After "salvation", a person can still go to hell by turning back to sin, not confessing it, etc.

So the best way to make sure you don't slip back into sin and perish is to drown in the baptistry
---James_L on 1/16/11


I was the one in need of redemption...God was not the one who was lost,anyway full immersion baptism is an important act of the Christian faith...but it occurs after salvation as a sign of ...belief (in Jesus).I could not have believed if He had not given me His Grace,He found me or I would still be lost...the old calvinist that I am must say this :)
---richard on 1/14/11


I may be ignorant and overly harsh. But the steps you mention seem more likely to lead to "sin-denial" than anything...after a person discovers he cannot stop sinning, let alone "endure to the end".
---Donna66 on 1/13/11

Correct Donna66. This is the reason they have by far the highest suicide rate of all the cults.
---John on 1/13/11


JamesL---
Ha. Never heard the "ladder" analogy. But the first rung is absolutely broken...for everybody. Why is it that they want to Baptize coverts right away? Is it because they figure most people can resist sinning for however many minutes it takes to get them into the Baptismal waters?.


I may be ignorant and overly harsh. But the steps you mention seem more likely to lead to "sin-denial" than anything...after a person discovers he cannot stop sinning, let alone "endure to the end".

On the other hand, If "sinning" includes only superficial prohibitions like not committing adultery (or not drinking, smoking or attending dances and movies etc),sinlessness is possible for most people.
---Donna66 on 1/13/11




Baptism is important. It is an outward expression of an inward change. My Grandmother always told me how when she decied to become a Christian she wanted to be baptized. In the Methodist church you could choose. She was baptized in November in Topeka Kansas in a creek almost a hundred years ago. She always remeber that.

Luther says to remeber the date of our Baptism as a time when we are deciated to GOD.
---Samuel on 1/13/11


Jesus DID say that 'he who believes AND IS BAPTISED' will be saved.

I do not think that baptism is necessary for salvation (the robber on the cross was not baptised) but that comment of Jesus does imply that baptism is important
---Peter on 1/13/11


Donna66,
I caught that after I posted it. What I meant to convey is that among those who believe baptism to be a necessary element in salvation, there are two views. Thanks for pointing that out.

There are 5 or 6 views that I know of.

One view is that we are justified through faith alone, and receive the Holy Spirit (and gifts) at baptism.

Another view is that we are justified through faith alone, yet we are buried with Christ in baptism, laying to rest the old man and raised to a new man, receiving remission of sin (temporally) to forget the old things and focus on the things of God. It's what 1 Peter 3:21 calls "saved" to a clear conscience. Also Romans 6:3-14. This is the view I hold.
---James_L on 1/13/11


\\You'll love "The Church of Christ" ... They believe ONLY Baptism saves you.\\
---John on 1/12/11

I had a friend who gave me a "gospel" brochure from the Church of Christ. It explained a "ladder" of salvation. The first rung said STOP SINNING.

I had an occasion to debate with my friend's pastor, and I told him I keep falling off the first rung. I said if I could ever stay on that rung I wouldn't need Christ.

Baptism was the 6th rung, I think. Followed by obey God fully and endure to the end.
---James_L on 1/13/11


Excellent Point Mima!!!
You'll love "The Church of Christ" They're worst than the RCC. They believe ONLY Baptism saves you. So when you join they run to the nearest water supply.

Of course the problem is... When someone turns to Christ in the middle of the desert right before they are about to die and there's no water anywhere.

HE GOES TO HELL????

OOOPS! Manmade doctrines ALWAYS have holes in them. Then they try to patch them up with some weird theory to cover their heresy.

LOL!!!
---John on 1/12/11




JamesL--There is a 3rd view of baptism. That is, it provides NEITHER merit nor access ... but is a symbolic act depicting a Christians new life in Christ. Baptism is in obedience to Christ and serves as a public declaration of faith.
---Donna66 on 1/12/11


//baptism is a part of salvation//
But man can't do it and it has nothing to do with water.
---michael_e on 1/12/11


Mima, I agree with James L and Francis statment:

"foolish statement for a christian to make.
Obedience to God does not make one co redeemer.
And God/ Jesus does command baptism for all who believes."


I believe the blog question was about the RCC and their regeneration by water. Which is probably what you were referring to. Many others also believe that. Since it is an Arminian believe. Salvation by works. That people have to do merits in order to make the death of Christ sufficient for our salvation. But salvation is all by the Grace of God, through faith. God does command us to be baptized and as believers we have to obey.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/11


I wouldn't apply the statement to all.

There are two views concerning the role of baptism - merit and acceess.

Some believe that it is a meritorious work added to our credit, in addition to Christ's work on the cross. In other words, Jesus didn't do it all.

Others believe redemption is by God's grace alone, and baptism is a way of accessing grace. Much like those who advocate a sinner's prayer. In this view Jesus did it all, and I get it when I get baptized.

Most don't understand the difference between the two, and take ignorant potshots at genuine believers.
---James_L on 1/11/11


Critique this statement. Those who insist that baptism is a part of salvation are expressing the belief that mankind is a co-redeemer along with Christ.

foolish statement for a christian to make.
Obedience to God does not make one co redeemer.
And God/ Jesus does command baptism for all who believes.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

This stement would be like saying those who believe are co redemers.
---francis on 12/6/10


in my my conversion experience, i was baptized with water seven times. it was not until the seventh time that I understood...

the thief on the cross did not need water baptized once for Jesus to remember him. Jesus did not require the thief to jump off the cross and be 'baptized'.

the salvation was not in the request (or any action by the man), it was in the sincerity of the heart...of the sinner and of the Lord...a spiritual baptism.

as for water baptism, i would never talk against it, but what little that i know, i cannot say the water baptism is necessary for salvation but spiritual baptism is.
---aka on 12/6/10


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rod4him, coming from you,it means a lot. bless you for the encouragement.
---aka on 12/7/10


\\He also said that some were saved by the "foolishness of preaching." \\

BTW, some people here seem to think that "foolishness of preaching" is the same thing as "preaching foolishness."
---Cluny on 12/6/10


aka, I appreciate your posts. Keep it up. :)
---Rod4Him on 12/6/10


that's not the total truth, cluny. but, if you were so concerned about me you wouldn't look for blogs to "beat me up".
---aka on 12/6/10


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\\most believe that baptism equals water baptism. \\

Because that's what the Bible says.

Too bad you don't believe it.
---Cluny on 12/5/10


ROMANS 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law shall NO flesh be justified in his sight, -------------
---RICIHARD on 12/5/10


Those who make this statement are indeed giving mankind the kind of power he does not posses. God alone can save and that through Christ Jesus alone.
Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,
Any "washing" that is done, is accomplished by God. Man is incapable of washing away sin. Baptism symbolizes the cleansing, the dying and rising again to new life, of the redeemed soul.
---Donna66 on 12/5/10


Mima, Christ is sufficient. No help is needed by Him to save anyone. No works or merits of anyone will get him into the Kingdom of God. God's mercy will get him in when He brings him to spiritual life for no one enters unless they are born of the Spirit. literal water can only clean you on the outside, Christ Atonement clean you in the inside.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/10


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No man past,present,or future has been nor shall they ever be a co-redeemer with Christ. Jesus did it all and it was finished with him. John preached the baptism of repentance for the remission sins Luke 3:3. No longer is baptism one of repentance 1 Peter 3:21 -baptism does also now save us(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,but the answer of a good consience toward God)by the resurrection of Christ. We now repent of sin,become dead to sin and baptism represents we are buried with Christ into death,risen,and walk as new creatures in Christ Romans 6:4. Only Christ is our salvation by being crucified he died for our sins whosoever believes he is God's son,shall have life through his name John 20:31.
---Darlene_1 on 12/5/10


Pharisee, I value your opinion and thank you for making this statement."Truly it's exactly what they are saying but I doubt they realize it."
---mima on 12/5/10


//Critique this statement//

you need to define baptism. most believe that baptism equals water baptism.

Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel,
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

This baptism involves not pouring of water but pouring of the Spirit, which man has nothing power over.
---aka on 12/5/10


False, mima.

However, St. Paul DID say that he "became all things to all men that he might by all means SAVE some."

Was he claiming to be a savior?

He also said that some were saved by the "foolishness of preaching."

Does that mean he replaced Christ with "preaching"?
---Cluny on 12/5/10


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I'd say it's a bit of a stretch even though I agree with your premise. Truly it's exactly what they are saying but I doubt they realize it.

No act of man gives salvation, it comes by spiritual agreement with God on an individual basis.
---Pharisee on 12/5/10


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