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Christians To Follow All Laws

Are all laws found in the Bible applicable to the Christian?

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 ---leej on 12/5/10
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It was jesus.
---francis on 12/8/10

Let me understand, are you are saying that the Ten Commandments are what Jesus describes in John 14 as "My Commandments"?

But there is more to it.

Matt 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY' but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart"

The Ten commandments are incomplete. Jesus expands on them. Fleshes them out, fills them. He summarizes it all in a few statements like this:

Matt 7:12 "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/10


Peter delivers a similar warning. "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them" (2 Peter 2:20-21).
---francis on 12/8/10


What in the world are you talking about? Christians walk by faith and not by the Law. The law is summed up in Love. You need to go back and start all over again. You are very confused. While you are trying to get yourself together you better begin to read your bible.Read the book of Galatians(slowly) Also Romans(slowly and with spiritual understanding) Get someone to help you who is a mature christian. You are still an infant! Very much in need of discipling and evangelizing.
---Robyn on 12/8/10


Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Jesus looking into the future says that he hopes their flight will not be on the SABBATH.
Jesus ofcourse expected his followers to be keeping sabbath long after his death.(Which is what we do)

If Jesus was going to change the law by His death which he says he did not come to do, then he would not make reference to the posibility of fleeing on the sabbath in thefuture.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day( 40 YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF jESUS).

WHich day does THE BIBLE (NOT MAN) say is the Lord's day?

Isaiah 58:13 the SABBATH.. MY HOLY DAY
---francis on 12/8/10


Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

That angel would be THE ANGEL OF THE LORD

Exodus 19:20 And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount, and Moses went up.

So it was Jesus who wrote the ten commandments and gave them to Moses. Written in stone, and expression we use today to mean unchangable.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
---francis on 12/8/10




John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

the person who spoke face to face with Moses in the mountain was Not the father, It wa jesus. The person who wrote the ten commandments and handed them to Moses was not the father, it was Jesus who is also God.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
---francis on 12/8/10


MARK EATON very good question.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

the person who spoke face to face with Moses in the mountain was Not the father, It wa jesus. The person who wrote the ten commandments and handed them to Moses was not the father, it was Jesus who is also God.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
---francis on 12/8/10


Leej - "much of the New Covenant is found in the Old".

Actually every NT instruction can be found in the OT (in some form or fashion).
And to follow up on the previous question...every instruction given in the OT was given to the Hebrew/Jews. So...is it your assumption that The Father, in the OT, only desired the Hebrew/Jews to follow His instructions OR did He desire that all men would abandon their idolotrous ways and join with His children in obediance to Him?
---AG on 12/8/10


---Rob does this answer your question?
Matthew 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had [his] hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Mark 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill?

So our hospitals stay open. Most of the cleaning staff is off on sabbath, mainly the staff needed to care for ths sick remains. If you were a chrstian you would have known this.

Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it IT IS LAWFUL TO DO WELL ON SABBATH DAYS.

it is NOT A SIN to help the sick on sabbath days. Jesus did NOT sin by healing the man with the withered hand on the sabbath.
---francis on 12/8/10


- The Ten Commandments in the New Testament
---francis on 12/8/10

I agree with you on this. However, one thing is puzzling for me and perhaps you could clarify it.

Jesus said in John 14:15 "if you love Me you will keep My commandments" which you have constantly said are the Ten Commandments. Yet that answer seems insufficient to me. Why would Jesus say "His commandments" and not the "Ten Commandments"? I understand that Jesus is the Word of God and the Ten Commandments were written by Him, but there must be a difference to this otherwise Jesus would have told His disciples to just be like the Pharisees. His commandments must be different, don't you agree?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/8/10




It is easy to cherry pick verses out of the Bible to fit ones doctrinal stand.

However, it is important that the Bible be read in such a way that scripture interprets scripture.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

While having been delivered from the law, the law still functions as a guide to our behavior.

And that is the basically what is stated in the Westminister Confessions XIX,VI on 'of the law of God'.
---leej on 12/8/10


1st Commandment: Love the Lord your God
2nd Commandment: Love the Lord your God
3rd Commandment: Love the Lord your God
4th Commandment: God loves me and gives me a day of rest
5th Commandment: Love your neighbor (your parents) as yourself
6th Commandment: Love your neighbor
7th Commandment: Love your neighbor (your wife)
8th Commandment: Love your neighbor
9th Commandment: Love your neighbor
10th Commandment: Love your neighbor
---Rod4Him on 12/8/10


Shes mixing law and grace. That price is death.
---JackB on 12/7/10
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

BE HONEST IF YOU CAN.
JACKB are you claiming that because you are under grace you are free to:
1. worship other gods.
2. worship idols.
3. misuse God's name.
4. not Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Disnonor your father & mother.
6. murder.
7. commit adultery.
8. steal.
9. lie.
10. covet.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
---francis on 12/8/10


AG//...are there any OT commands or instructions that are not "strictly jewish/hebrew"?

While it is true that much in the New Covenant is also found within the Old, the church is under the New Covenant, not the old that passed away (Hebrews 8:13).

While those that came out of Egypt were the Hebrew people that made up the nation of Israel, at the time of Christ, they were referred to simply as Jews.

The Jerusalem council Acts 15 did not require Gentile converts to convert to Judaism and observe the laws of Moses (15:5). And such laws as the Sabbath, national festivals, food laws, etc. were strictly Jewish in origin.
---leej on 12/8/10


- A Royal Law of Love
- The First Commandment: What Is Our Greatest Priority?
- The Second Commandment: What Is God Like?
- The Third Commandment: From Profanity to Praise
- The Fourth Commandment: Key to a Relationship With Our Creator
- The Fifth Commandment: A Foundation for Success
- Sixth Commandment: Life Is a Precious Gift
- Seventh Commandment: Protect the Marital Relationship
- Eighth Commandment: Practice Giving Rather Than Getting
- Ninth Commandment: Truth as a Way of Life
- Tenth Commandment: True Righteousness Comes From the Heart
- The Ten Commandments in the New Testament
---francis on 12/8/10


Rob - The Scripture tells us that the 10 commandments is the Old Covenant.

De 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

What Francis has been unable to explain is why why why those letters written on stone are referred to as the ministry of death & condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7,9) and he is advocating adherence to that ministry of death!

He also fails to realize that Judazing is really the work of Satan as he advocates one is to walk by law not in the grace God gives to those who are truly His.
---leej on 12/8/10


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The apostle John clearly defines sin, telling us that "sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV). Like Paul, John describes the saints as "those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). He also gives us this sobering warning: "He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4).
---francis on 12/7/10


Just leave her be and pray for her. Shes obviously stumbled just as the Jews have and she needs prayer more than anything right now.

Shes mixing law and grace. If she stands before God bragging of her lawfulness Hes gonna show her how she has broken that same law and must pay the price for it.

That price is death.
---JackB on 12/7/10


Francis, you have chosen not to answer my questions because you can't answer them.

The questions you presented are you Satan's advocate?

You are doing the same thing Satan did in Matthew 4:1-11.

The answers to you questions is found in Exodus Chapters 19 and 20, and Exodus 31:12-17.

Show me anywhere in these passages where the 10 Commandments were given to any group of people other than the Jews.

Why don't SDA hospitals keep the Sabbath as it is written in the 10 Commandments and do what is written Exodus 31:12-17?

Also for you to ask your first question is proof once again you REJECT CHRIST.
---Rob on 12/8/10


Peter delivers a similar warning. "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them" (2 Peter 2:20-21).
---francis on 12/8/10


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the law & the prophets are summed up in these 2: Love God with your all & love your neighbor as you love yourself.

If your neighbor wishes to worship on saturday or sunday..let him. This is not sin and no one should be offended by it.
Francis, stop trying to trap people & say that they don't obey the law. ALL who are in Christ obey the law because of Christ.
Obeying God has nothing to do with tradition. It has everything to do with love.
So, could we please stop berating one another for what day we choose to worship on.
God is still working. We are to rest in Christ all the time & direct 100% of ourselves to God all the time not just 1 day a week.
Everything we do should glorify God all the time.
---ginger on 12/8/10


leej,
You refer to Sabbath observance as a "strictly jewish" command. Since the jews didnt exist when the command was given, I can only assume you meant to say "strictly hebrew". If that is true, my question to you is...are there any OT commands or instructions that are not "strictly jewish/hebrew"?
---AG on 12/8/10


Since franis is a liar,it is doubtful that he will address any of the questions posed to him that are critical of the Jewish Sabbath or the Levitical dietary laws. Such is the technique applied by Neo-Judaizers.
---leej on 12/8/10


I have choosen not to answer your question.

But i will answer ALL your question if Ignatius MICHEAL, and Rob answer 3/6 of these for me. MUST ANSWER #2

1: If the sabbath is stricky Jewish, does it mean to the none jews do not have to acknowledge God as creator?
and if so how did they remember and worship him as creator?

2: When Jesus healed the man with the withered hand on the sabbath did Jesus sin.

3: Do any of you honour your father and mother? Because if you do you are keeping the law.

4: How many of the ten commandments do you follow or not follow and why?

5: What does it say in the forth commandments, and could the death of Jesus change that fact?

6: Give three definitions of sin?
---francis on 12/7/10


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Paul clearly explained his personal view of God's law: "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good" (Romans 7:12). And "I delight in the law of God in my inmost self (verse 22, NRSV). He calls it a "spiritual" law (verse 14).

Paul taught, "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous . . ." (Romans 2:13, NIV). These are plain statements showing that Paul fully supported God's law.
---francis on 12/7/10


Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
---micha9344 on 12/7/10


francis seldom bothers to quote either the preceding or following verse in honking the Jewish Sabbath.

Mt. 19:18-19 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice that Jesus NEVER EVER told us to observe the Jewish Sabbath. Such was not mandated to Gentile believers. (Acts 15 is blacked out in the Adventist Bibles!)

Mt. 5,17 as well as Galatians 4:4f tells us that Jesus fulfilled the law and thus ceremonial laws like the Sabbath were abrogated.
---leej on 12/7/10


Francis, you wrote part of the 10 commandments is thou shalt not murder, yet the keepers of the law were plotting on how to kill Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.

This is just another example of how those who insist on keeping the LAW, DO NOT KEEP THEIR VERY OWN LAWS which they place on people, Matthew Chapter 23.

They do not keep the 10 Commandments. They are HYPOCRITES.

Francis, do you keep all of the 10 commandment? Apparently not because you lie and you don't abide in GOD'S TRUTHS. You do what is written in Romans 1:25.
---Rob on 12/7/10


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In all fairness to francis, it is possible that the Hebrew people knew of the Sabbath as the day after Creation but simply never were commanded to observe it.

Before the 10 commandments were given to Moses, the Israelites were commanded not to gather manna on the 7th day which was described as the Sabbath.

Ex 16:23 he said to them, This is what the LORD has commanded: Tomorrow is a day of solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD, bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over lay aside to be kept till the morning.

But there is still the problem of finding anything in Scripture or in the early writings for the church to observe the Jewish Sabbath.
---leej on 12/7/10


That question was directly put to Jesus, and the Bible preserves His reply for us. "Now behold, one came and said to Him, 'Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?' So He said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments'" (Matthew 19:16-17). That is about as clear as one can be. Jesus left no doubt. When asked which ones, Jesus responded: "You shall not murder," "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "Honor your father and your mother," and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (verses 18-19).
---francis on 12/7/10


Francis, why don't you answer my question as why the keepers of the law plotted to kill Jesus for breaking their law of the Sabbath by healing a man on the Sabbath?
---Rob on 12/7/10


francis //See Isaiah 56:6, take a good look at who is present in Acts 13:43 Jews and religious proselytes

All modern Bible versions have 'proselytes' not 'Gentiles'.

Acts 13:43 RSV And when the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism(ASV proselytes) followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

I as amazed that francis keeps on honking the Jewish Sabbath despite the many fact against its observance by Christians. He really should open his eyes to the fact that Adventism is simply like a broken spoke in a wheel.
---leej on 12/7/10


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francis - you have yet to be a good student of exegetics.

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

Tell us WHY you think 'His commandments" in this verse refer to the Ten Commandments.

John with the exception of once or twice, always refers to commandments as being simply two - 1) to believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and 2) to love one another. (See 1 John 3:22-24)

Your problem is that you simply READ INTO A TEXT your own bias interpretation. No wonder you and other SDAs are so very confused as when you compare scripture with scripture, you are left in a state of stupor.
---leej on 12/7/10


1) Genesis 2:2 does not say those prior to Exodus kept the weekly Sabbath, as it was not ordained then.

2) Exodus 5:1 was about Moses and Israel.

3) Genesis 26:5--> The Patriarchs were instructed in offerings: Gen 4:3-4, Altars: Gen 8:20, Priests: Gen 14:18, Tithes: Gen 14:20, Circumcision: Gen 17:10 and Marriage: Gen 2:24 & Gen 34:9.

Why no Sabbath keeping Francis?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/7/10


//She is simply a Sabbatarian trying to live in both worlds.

Francis is a 'he' not a 'she', the feminine gender spelling is 'frances'.

Adventists claim the right to cherry pick whatever OT verses they wish in order to create their Judaizing doctrines.

Their main means of entrapment is to convince the naive that the 10 commandments are the main light in Christianity (not Christ), and then point out the Sabbath is Saturday.

In their seminars (I attended one), they take advantage of religious prejudice against Roman Catholics and blame them for all the bad doctrine. As stated before, SDAs know nothing of the Eastern Orthdox, Coptic, Nestorian or other branches of Christianity that existed with the Roman Church.
---leej on 12/7/10


Not only that God in his own words calls it a "sign" a sign is not the actual thing, it points to the thing it intends to show, in this case that thing is a person, the Lord Jesus who is our Sabbath rest.
---Pharisee on 12/7/10

Amen!!
Most things in the OT point to Christ if one takes the time to really get into his spirit and read it thoroughly.
---ginger on 12/7/10


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God made nade different laws for dfferent ethnic groups:

Romans 2:11 there is no respect of persons with God.

2 Samuel 14:14 neither doth God respect any person:

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the STRANGER that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law shall be for you, and for the STRANGER that sojourneth with you.

Numbers 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for the congregation, and for the STRANGER that sojourneth with you, so shall the STRANGER be before the LORD.
Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the STRANGER, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it,
---francis on 12/7/10


leej,
You refer to Sabbath observance as a "strictly jewish" command. Since the jews didnt exist when the command was given, I can only assume you meant to say "strictly hebrew". If that is true, my question to you is...are there any OT commands or instructions that are not "strictly jewish/hebrew"?
---AG on 12/7/10


3) The Jewish Sabbath was not a moral Law, but a ceremonial one,
*****


the Jewish Sabbath?

there lies your ignorance in dismissing Gods Holy Sabbath

there is no "jewish sabbath"

there is just no such thing

try as you may to worship and bow down to the MOTHER rcc (Rev 17) who gave mankind HER suns-day sabbath

even rcc is not so foolish to call it a jewish sabbath - she knows nothing in Holy Word rejects Gods Holy Sabbath

only those who reject Biblical Christ dismiss - you do know Christ is LORD of the Sabbath

Holy Word doesn't say HE is Lord of suns-day even rcc KNOWS THAT

gentile christians dismiss Gods Holy Sabbath to OBEY rcc and disobey The Father in Heaven
---Rhonda on 12/7/10


That question was directly put to Jesus, and the Bible preserves His reply for us. "Now behold, one came and said to Him, 'Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?' So He said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments'" (Matthew 19:16-17). That is about as clear as one can be. Jesus left no doubt. When asked which ones, Jesus responded: "You shall not murder," "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "Honor your father and your mother," and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (verses 18-19).
---francis on 12/7/10


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You say it was okay for Christ to heal on the Sabbath, ---Rob on 12/7/10

Anyone here who claims to know the scripture. I call on you to correct ROB in this statement. With scripture IF you can.


---Ignatius on 12/7/10
See Genesis 2:2, Exodus 5:1, Genesis 26:5, Exodus 16:23, Isaiah 56:6,

---Pharisee on 12/7/10
See Isaiah 56:6, take a good look at who is present in Acts 13:43 Jews and religious proselytes
---francis on 12/7/10


"Francis, there you go again proving yourself and SDA's to be hypocrites." (Rob)

How very true. Francis told us in other blog that she does not follow God's commandment in Deuteronomy 22:11. She quotes Leviticus 11 and say we Gentile Christians need to observe those dietary laws (although one can see that such as a thing was not taught in the New Testament, c.f Romans 14), but fail to mention the other laws in the same book and the other 600+ laws that is part of Judaism, which can be found in the books of the Old Testament and Jewish manuscripts, such as the Talmud.

She is simply a Sabbatarian trying to live in both worlds.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 12/7/10


"And it was commanded for all men:"

WRONG!

1) No one prior to Moses kept the weekly Sabbath. According to Scriptures, it was only AFTER Moses (Ezek 20:10-12, Nehemiah 9:13-14). We have no record of Sabbath keeping prior to Exodus.

2) The observance of the weekly Sabbath was ONLY given to Israel as a SIGN (Deut 5:2-3, Ex 31:16)

3) The Jewish Sabbath was not a moral Law, but a ceremonial one, meant to kept for a certain time by a certain type of people. We can see this from the fact the Holy Apostles and their successors never commanded Gentile Christians to observe it (Acts 15).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/7/10


Nearly all church historians refer to the Old Testament Sabbath as the Jewish Sabbath since ONLY the Jews observed it. In other words, the Sabbath was an exclusively Jewish ordinance - something not found among other peoples or religions. RIGHTON LEEJ

Not only that God in his own words calls it a "sign" a sign is not the actual thing, it points to the thing it intends to show, in this case that thing is a person, the Lord Jesus who is our Sabbath rest.
---Pharisee on 12/7/10


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Francis, there you go again proving yourself and SDA's to be hypocrites.

You say if a person breaks any part of the law they break them all. Then you say it was okay for Christ to heal on the Sabbath, (which is doing work) and it is okay for people to work at SDA hospitals on the Sabbath.

Francis, if it is okay to heal or work on the Sabbath, why did the KEEPERS OF THE LAW plot to kill Jesus for healing on the Sabbath?

Francis, you along with SDA's are like those who are mentioned in James 1:8.
---Rob on 12/7/10


---micha9344 I know that you are very confused ecause you read: Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for

AND ALSO :Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? AND:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

How can christ be the end of the same law he said he did not come to destroy or do away with.

Drop you pride I can help you.
---francis on 12/7/10


In the final chapter of the Bible, Jesus Christ through the apostle John (Revelation 1:1) reminds us of the supreme importance of God's commandments to our eternal life. "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

It is important that we believe what Jesus and His apostles said about their own view of the commandments of God. Once that is clear to us, then the reasonings of men cannot deter us from respecting and obeying those commandments from the heart.
---francis on 12/7/10


Nearly all church historians refer to the Old Testament Sabbath as the Jewish Sabbath since ONLY the Jews observed it. In other words, the Sabbath was an exclusively Jewish ordinance - something not found among other peoples or religions.

In any case, I would challenge our Adventists friends to find a single command or even a hint of a command that the church must observe the Jewish Sabbath.

Such a thing disappeared as a command along with physical circumcision and other strictly Jewish laws at the Jerusalem council Acts 15, and that as early as the first century.

Those that uphold observance of the Jewish Sabbath really do not know much about the epistle to the Galatians.
---leej on 12/7/10


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Exo 31:16-17 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:13a Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you...
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
---micha9344 on 12/7/10


---Ignatius There is no such thing as JEWISH SABBATH, the sabbath was established before there was one Jew on earth. It is called: Exodus 20:10 the sabbath of the LORD thy God:
And it was commanded for all men:

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

I dare you to find jewish sabbath in the bible. If you find it keep using it, if not try SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD. By using Sabbath of the lord thy God, instead of Jewish Sabbath you will see how foolish your post are.

Try is just ONCE
---francis on 12/7/10


Jam 2:8-9 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
(James 2:10-11)
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient,
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Worshipping the 10 commandments is still idolatry.
---micha9344 on 12/7/10


James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

He not only said not tokill he also said:
1. Do not worship other gods.
2. Do not worship idols.
3. Do not misuse God's name.
4. Keep the Sabbath holy.
5. Honor your father & mother.
6. .
7. .
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not lie.
10. Do not covet.

and:
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
---francis on 12/6/10


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---Rob on 12/6/10
Matthew 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had [his] hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

Mark 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill?

So our hospitals stay open. Most of the cleaning staff is off on sabbath, mainly the staff needed to care for ths sick remains. If you were a chrstian you would have known this.

Matthew 12:12 Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
---francis on 12/7/10


People such as Francis who lives like a Jew will never understand what the New Testament is all about.

I have said this many times before, but will reiterate once more. While the Holy Apostles and their Successors taught Early Christians how to live a Orthodox Christian lifestyle (i.., how to reach Theosis), not one commanded them to observe the Jewish Sabbath or observe Jewish dietary restrictions, such as not eating Pork.

Can Romans 14 be any clearer? How long will it take for Sabbatarians such as Jerry and Francis to finally accept Apostolic doctrines, and not Adventist fables?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/6/10


kathr4453 - I think the following closer represents my view on this subject.

The moral law doth forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof, and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither Christ in the gospel, any way dissoved, but much strengthen this obligation. Westminster Confession 'Of the law of God', XIX,V.

As to the Sabbath & dietary laws (and some others), were not mandated to the church under the New Covenant.

Such non-moral laws would have hindered the spread of the Gospel.

"All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated under the New Testament." (WMC, XIX,III)
---leej on 12/6/10


No all laws are not applicable..because all the laws had their true fulfillment in Christ...but all laws are beneficial...

The laws found in the bible is not the source of our salvation or justification.

The laws serve as snapshots of our God's nature and character...the laws shows us what He considers righteous and just and what He does not like and considers evil.

There is wisdom and insight in all of God's word, and that includes all 613 commandments of the o.t. as well...

For to do away with the law altogether is to do away with the Knowledge of the Lord.

The Holy Spirit of God works in us according to the degree of the Word/Law.
---L_Will on 12/6/10


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The fact is God changes the heart of his people and those that will listen need no commandments. They follow Christ as the Spirit testifies to their conscience just as the early Christians did. Even in this better way people will still miss the mark, but that's of no consequence now that justification is by faith. It can't be that there are "requirements" as you say or then God has to return to separating people according to what they do, and not upon the merits of his only son.
---Pharisee on 12/6/10
Worth repeating....
---micha9344 on 12/6/10


leej, so it seems you are saying that Christians today must keep the Law EXCEPT for the Sabbath and dietary laws?


So actually you and francis both agree on keeping the Law, but argue on which ones to keep.

No wonder you need revival.

The CROSS, negates all laws.

But Calvin never established you in the CROSS. It's not just for salvation, but for sanctification as well!

The Power of the Cross is to US_WARD who ARE SAVED!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/6/10


Calaydo //Who are we to pick and choose what is true and what is not.

While it is not our to chose, the sheep are to be led by the Good Shepherd as they have the Spirit of Christ dwelling within them to guide them.

As we are created in the image of God Himself, we have a inherent knowledge of right and wrong. In fact, Scripture even tells us in Romans 2,14 that the Gentiles who followed their conscience even fulfilled the law.

So moral behavior is not something that is relative.
---leej on 12/6/10


//...the Roman Church, the Eastern churches simply declared a marriage to be invalid and thus annulled in order for those who were in favor could marry again.//

Yes, I have a friend who was married with children for over 30 years, and the wife got the marriage annulled through the RCC.

He is extreemly bitter at the RCC. That bitterness is not good for him either, which he needs to deal with.
---Rod4Him on 12/6/10


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The Old Testament is our school master teaching us God's power,love,wrath,and all other things about him. It included the Old Covenant which we have never been under as Gentiles,it was for Jews. Hebrews 8:13- a new covenant,he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away. For Gentiles: Acts 15:28,29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us,to Lay upon you these necessary things,that you abstain from meats offered to idols,blood,things strangled,and fornication,from which if you keep yourselves you shall do well. We are under the Law of Love,love God with all heart,mind,soul,strength,and our neighbor as ourself,if we do that we do harm to no man.
---Darlene_1 on 12/6/10


francis //The gentiles in the OT who came to christ had to keep the sabbath

Such Gentiles were referred to as proselytes - a new convert to a religious faith or political doctrine.

However, Gentiles converted to Christ did not have to keep the Jewish Sabbath or Levitical dietary laws.

Acts 15:20 Therefore my judgment is we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what has been strangled, and from blood.

They were told to abstain from what was strangled & from blood so as to facilitate their fellowship with Jewish believers.

Again we have the testimony of history on this interpretation.
---leej on 12/6/10


Who are we to pick and choose what is true and what is not.
---Calaydo on 12/6/10


Cluny //It gets argued, but the very things that Christ Himself commanded, such as no remarriage after divorce, and the necessity for water baptism and communion seem to be optional, or even not obligatory to many people on here.

Yes I can see what you are saying, but like the Roman Church, the Eastern churches simply declared a marriage to be invalid and thus annulled in order for those who were in favor could marry again.

And since Paul claimed that he was not sent to baptise but to peach the gospel (1 Cor. 1:17), water baptism is not essential to salvation. If it were, then why does scripture so often speak of salvation as a gift not earned?
---leej on 12/6/10


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Francis, you and SDA's are such HYPOCRITES. You are just like the teachers of the law and Pharisees that CHRIST HIMSELF rebuked in Matthew Chapter 13..

SDA's have their own calendars which list the exact minute the sun sets on Fridays to the exact minute the sun sets on Saturdays. This is because the SDA's prohibit people from doing any type of work during this time.

In the city where I live there is a hospital owned and operated by the SDA's

Does this hospital close and care not given to patients (which is work) during the SDA Sabbath? I doubt it. HYPOCRITES!
---Rob on 12/6/10


Francis,

1) Acts 15:21 say nothing about Gentile Christians observing the Sabbath.

2 Hebrew 4 actually affirms that that those who are under the Grace of the New Covenant have one final sabbath rest, which will occur at the Second Coming of Christ.

3) Acts 13 41-42 does not mention Jewish Sabbath Observance among the Elect.

4) Matthew 24:20 does not teach Sabbath Observance. The Gates of the city would be closed on the Sabbath: Neh 13:15-22, and thus no one will get out.

5) Revelation 1:20 speaks about the first day of the week (Sunday), according to the successors of the Apostles.

Try again Francis. When will you start living under the New Covenant and not follow Jewish Law?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/6/10


You should all understand this, If God is in you, If you love God with all your Heart,You will obey His commands. This isn't a question of what you want, this is a question of Who you belong to. There are only two commands really, if you follow them, You follow all of Gods commands and the Law is only "applicable" to the one who keeps it.
---steve7434 on 12/6/10


The law for Christians is:

Romans 3:27 "the law of faith"
Romans 8:2 "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"
---Haz27 on 12/6/10


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This blog should not get more than 25 responces.

I have already posted all ten commandments, dietary and sexual laws from NT. Those whose hearts are hard will remain hard.

NOT EVERYONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE A CHRISTIAN IS ONE

2 Timothy 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

What is so hard about ALL SCRIPTURE AND EVERYWORD?
---francis on 12/6/10


Leej Obedience to the law is NOT required for salvation, if it were no one could be justified. Early Christians didn't have Bibles, most couldn't afford to have scrolls produced, so to say there's a written law they had to follow negates the work of God. The fact is God changes the heart of his people and those that will listen need no commandments. They follow Christ as the Spirit testifies to their conscience just as the early Christians did. Even in this better way people will still miss the mark, but that's of no consequence now that justification is by faith. It can't be that there are "requirements" as you say or then God has to return to separating people according to what they do, and not upon the merits of his only son.
---Pharisee on 12/6/10


All 10 commandments, dietary law, sexual morality laws after death of Jesus
1: NO OTHER GODS (Matt 4:10)
2: NO IDOLS. (1Cor 10:7))
3: NAME IN VAIN.(1Tim 6:1)
4: SABBATH.Acts 15:21 ( ALSO see hebrew 4 9-10, acts 13 41-42, matthew24:20, Rev 1:10)
5: HONOUR PARENTS(Eph 6:1-3)
6: MURDER (James 2:11)
7: ADULTERY.(Heb 13:4)
8: THEFT(Eph 4:28)
9: LIE(Col 3:9)
10: COVET, (Heb 13:5)
A: dietary laws Acts 10:14 1 Timothy 4:4-5, 2 Corinthians 6:17 ref lev 22:5
B: Sexual morality laws Romans 1:27

The gentiles in the OT who came to christ had to keep the sabbath
---francis on 12/5/10


//No law is applicable to the Christian, either you're under the law or under grace, there's no in between. //

Sharp.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, you have been called unto liberty, only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
---aka on 12/5/10


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It's so strange when this subject comes up.

It gets argued, but the very things that Christ Himself commanded, such as no remarriage after divorce, and the necessity for water baptism and communion seem to be optional, or even not obligatory to many people on here.
---Cluny on 12/5/10


Pharisee - thanks for your comments. yes we are under grace but there is yet an obligation to the law.

Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned, yet is it of great use to them as well as to others, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly, discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives, so as examining themselves thereby they may come to further convictions of humiliation for and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ and the perfection fo his obedience. Westminster Confessions XIX,VI.
---leej on 12/5/10


Ignatius //Laws that were strictly Jewish, such as Sabbath Keeping, were not commanded to be follow by Gentile Christians in the New Testament, despite what Sabbatarians want us to believe.

I wonder how long it will be before those Sabbatarians on this forum start labeling you as they have others as being agents of Satan?

It is sad, but Galatians truly identifies them as children of Hagar who even to this day, will persecute those who are of the promise.

Gal.4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.

They really hate to be exposed for what they really are- followers of false prophets.
---leej on 12/5/10


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