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Purpose Of God's Laws

What is the purpose of God's law?

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 ---L_Will on 12/6/10
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Christianity is not a religion for dummies. God promises WISDOM..

Think about this:

God says:
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Satan says: Forget the sabbath day, do not keep it holy.

God says:
Exodus 20:10 the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work.

This if you think about it MUST give you pause:
SATAN SAYS: This is NOT the sabbath of your God, it is a JEWISH SABBATH. If you REST and take the day off from work which GOD blessed and sanctified and made holy, then you are under BONDAGE and you are doing WORKS

Satan wants you to WORK on the sabbath day, and if you REST he says you are bondage of WORKS.
---francis on 12/10/10


JACKB OR ANY PROFESSING CHRISTIAN I need a BIG favour from you.
This is what LEEJ says that advenstist believe:
"Adventism seems to be saying we must acquire the righteousness from obedience to the law rather by imputation of the righteousness that is in Christ. 1 Cor. 1:30"
---leej on 12/10/10

Based on what i posted about believers getting the RIGHTEOUSNES OF CHRIST because we were unable to keep the law, can you please correct LEEJ?
"The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law, but he is incapable of rendering it... Christs righteousness is accepted in place of mans failure,..."
---francis on 12/9/10
---francis on 12/11/10


If Kathr had read the verses prior to the one she gave she would have had her answer about those whom Paul was speaking to, the elect.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us (believers) who are being saved it is the power of God"
No matter how much they read the gospel it is foolishness to the lost. What they need is for God to give them a heart to perceive and God is the only One that can give to them. He gives it to the elect who are being saved.
Unbelieving Jews still wanted a supernatural signs (Matt. 12:38-44). Yet they refused to accept the most glorious of all the supernatural sign-works of God, namely providing salvation through the risen Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/10


This is what I based my comment on markV and christian:

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of ((ELECTION???))) or preaching to save them that believe.

However, I do need to ask YOU both, if you object to salvation by faith being made easier than salvation by Keeping the LAW as I stated, why are you all BRAGGING it was made easy for you.

And you scream because we object to that?
---kathr4453 on 12/10/10


All you really need to do is to tell us NT book, chapter & verse, why we should observe the Jewish Sabbath,
---leej on 12/9/10
I CANNOT give one single verse where any person OT or NT is is asked to observe JEWISH SABBATH.

I can, IF you ask, show you in OT and NT where ALL who choose to covenant with God are asked to observe: Exodus 20:10 the sabbath of the LORD thy God

But you MUST use the phrase SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD in your quetsion.

because noone can show JEWISH SABBATH or CHRISTIAN SABBATH in any bible.

NOT OT SABBATH, NOT JEWISH SABBATH.

But if you were to ask me about none hebrews keeping THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD, I think you would answer your own question.
---francis on 12/10/10




//WE GET THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST BECAUSE CHRIST WAS OBEDIENT. AGREE?

While we may agree with that, scripture is very plain our salvation is strictly a free gift received by faith, it has nothing to do with our deeds as depicted by the law since we are His workmanship.

Eph. 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

But Adventism seems to be saying we must acquire the righteousness from obedience to the law rather by imputation of the righteousness that is in Christ. 1 Cor. 1:30
---leej on 12/10/10


If we post question showing respect for God, the answers will be obvious:

Example: If You ask " Am i supposed to obey all of Gods laws?" the anser is obvious

If you ask," Should I keep the sabath of the Lord thy( my) God?" the answer is obvious.

But we are deceived in the very questions: when " the sabbath of the lord thy god" IS SUBSTITUTED FOR jewish law OR WHEN Gods law IS SUBSTITUTED for OT law.

And fewer yet can tell the different between THE LAW OF GOD and THE LAW OF MOSES.

If you think they are the same ask:
Am I supposed to keep the LAW OF MOSES
and am i supposed to keep the law of God

Can you answer YES to both
---francis on 12/10/10


//Do you believe the bible?

It is the Word of Life.

Do you believe that we do not continue to sin just because we are under grace?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

//Do you believe that we do not continue to sin because we have faith?

We will continue to sin if we live in the flesh. "I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members." Romans 7:23

But it is not the testimony of the saints of His church that there is any conviction of sins for one that does not observe the OT Jewish Sabbath or for what ones eats.
---leej on 12/10/10


JackB//He didnt just simply give us the ability to save ourselves.

Perhaps that is the problem we see with those that advocate adherence to laws - they think that Jesus just give us the ability to save ourselves by obedience to laws esp. the 10 commandments.

In doing that they really have to reject the scripture that tells us salvation is a gift received by faith for those who would believe and that the righteous must live by faith. Romans 1:17.
---leej on 12/10/10


//WE GET THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST BECAUSE CHRIST WAS OBEDIENT. AGREE?
---francis on 12/10/10
//

Agreed. We are made righteous because He did FOR US what we were unable to do. He didnt just simply give us the ability to save ourselves.

I truly believe what stands between a man and spending eternity with his Creator is being able to admit that we blew it ourselves and we need to be rescued by Jesus Christ. I believe this is what it means to have faith in Jesus. It is confidence that Gods promises thru him are ALL that is needed to save your soul.

It sounds so simple but some men simply will not let go of that pride. They will take it with them to hell.
---JackB on 12/10/10




Abraham lied, Noah got drunk, David committred adultery AND murder, ---Linda on 12/9/10
yep all have sinned
except jesus, thatis why those who have faith gets the righteousness of christ and not there own. That is why we are save dby GRACE and not by our own works.

Do you believe the bible?
Do you believe that we do not continue to sin just because we are under grace?
Do you believe that we do not continue to sin because we have faith?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
---FRANCIS on 12/10/10


How many men will be surprised when they name all the things they did to merit eternal life (and many of them good things) only to be cast out because they didnt SOLEY rely upon the merit of Jesus Christ and what He did on their behalf?

Even some believers will apparently never reach the point where they rely soley upon Christ but more so in their good deeds done here on earth. (Matt 7:22)
---JackB on 12/10/10


Do you wear a badge saying that you keep the Law so all will know?
God looks on the heart, man looks on the outward appearance.
---Rod4Him on 12/9/10

I Look at the blog question.
If the question was about grace, I would answer in terms of grace. If it was about baptism i would answer about baptism. You can't ask a blog question about LAW, and when i answer correctly get upset that I answer about LAW.
What exactly am i to post about in a blog about LAW?
---francis on 12/10/10


One day, you will have to decide, which one to hold up!
For only one of them can hold you up!
If you keep trying to hold it up, it will crush you!

You can say you are up-holding it, until your blue in the face!
But, the truth is the truth! Not everyone here is a child.
So, you can lie to some. But to try to lie to the ones who know the truth. You are a sinner!

I can forgive some. But, for you to stand there and tell me.
You must keep the law!
When you, yourself know! In your heart! You can do no such thing!
And worse! To say! Or imply you have!

May God forgive you!
You liar!
---TheSeg on 12/10/10


Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You do realise that this texts says that everyone jew and none jew are all justified by faith. That there is no difference between jew and gentile when it comes to righteousness.

It does not say that we do not have to keep the law.
Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
---francis on 12/10/10


Christian you were questioned that what you said, was twisting what Kathr had said. I went back and what you wrote was true, she did state,

" God made salvation so EASY for who so ever will, making it by faith."
she did quote those words and they were not twisted as someone here claims and I do not know what was behind the purpose of that claim. Kathr posted it on 12/8/10
She makes a lot of statements without regard to what she is saying concerning the Truth of Scripture. Talk is cheap. Truth is not cheap, it was paid with the life of Christ. For He is the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 12/10/10


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Romans 3:21-24 (N.I.V.)
But now righteousness from God, apart from law, has been
made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus
Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
---Allan_McDougall on 12/10/10


Luke 17:7-10

And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, Come at once and sit down to eat? But will he not rather say to him, Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink? Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.

The good news is that our Father is looking for sons who will come in and sit down at the table. Mary chose this part, too.
---Linda on 12/10/10


//If you think you can make yourself righteous enough to please God, your efforts will be totally futile.

And does not Adventism teach that if one is energized by the Holy Spirit one is thereby capable of obeying all the laws found in the Bible, thus one is enabled to merit eternal salvation?

Contrarily most Christians believe that the righteousness of Christ is imputed or put on the account of the believer and that by faith.

We therefore need not strive to obtain perfection from obedience to law.
---leej on 12/10/10


francis // The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law, but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

If you think you can make yourself righteous enough to please God, your efforts will be totally futile.
---leej on 12/10/10


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Christan ... Are you joining the twisting brigade?

It is outrageous that you should suggest that Kathr said that Christ's sacrifice was easy.
---alan8566_of_UK on 12/9/10


Abraham lied, Noah got drunk, David committred adultery AND murder, Samson laid his head in the lap of Delilah and told it all, Jacob deceived his father, Moses killed an Egyptian, Rahab was a prositute. Did they keep the commandments? Really? Hebrews tells us the things these did in faith and none of it was any of the ten commandments. Read it again.
---Linda on 12/9/10


francis //No one who has faith in Jesus disobeys God.

Nobody has any disagreement about that as the issue is your promotion of laws that are not pertinent to the Christian walk.

Frankly, your promotion is that of the children of Hagar from Mt. Sinai, not that of the promise given to Abraham that his children will be those of faith.

All you really need to do is to tell us NT book, chapter & verse, why we should observe the Jewish Sabbath, the dietary laws as such was not mandated to Christians at the Jerusalem council.

Any further discussion will be futile if you fail to answer those key questions.
---leej on 12/9/10


2 CORINTHIAN 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved and in them that perish.

2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death, And to other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

( The Word - Law - either gives Life or condemns a person)
---RICHARD on 12/9/10


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//How many people do you know who are faithful, and have faith in Jesus who are not also obedient to God,//

francis, I am not sure if your sentence was a question of a statement. I'll take it as a question. It seems your implication is that I don't know any/many. You must be hanging around the wrong crowd. My friends are faithful to Christ, meaning, we are pressing toward the prize of the high calling of Christ Jesus.

Do you wear a badge saying that you keep the Law so all will know?

God looks on the heart, man looks on the outward appearance.
---Rod4Him on 12/9/10


Francis, If I may ask, why do you continue to promote the laws and not promote your salvation by Grace through faith in Christ Jesus? In other words, why are you on line? What is your purpose or agenda? I know it is not about Christ, or about the Father or the the Holy Spirit, because you never comment concerning the God of the Bible but always talk about the law and the commandments. Can you give an answer?
---Mark_V. on 12/9/10
---francis on 12/9/10


MARKV, well look closely at the blog title. I did not write it. I just answered.

---JackB
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the OBEDIENCE of one shall many be made RIGHTEOUS.
Romans 6:16 sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?

WE GET THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST BECAUSE CHRIST WAS OBEDIENT. AGRRE?
---francis on 12/10/10


David was a man after Gods own heart, Francis.... and yet he had a woman's husband killed so he could steal her away.

Is David in hell?

Is Moses in hell for killing the egyptian guard?

Is Lot in hell for allowing his daughters to get him drunk enough that they could lie with him and bear children by him?
---JackB on 12/10/10


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Francis, If I may ask, why do you continue to promote the laws and not promote your salvation by Grace through faith in Christ Jesus? In other words, why are you on line? What is your purpose or agenda? I know it is not about Christ, or about the Father or the the Holy Spirit, because you never comment concerning the God of the Bible but always talk about the law and the commandments. Can you give an answer?
---Mark_V. on 12/9/10


---Rod4Him How many people do you know who are faithful, and have faith in Jesus who are not also obedient to God.
Genesis 26:5 Abraham obeyed my laws.
Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham,
Genesis 6:22 Thus did Noah, according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah,
Genesis 39:9 (Joesph) how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
Hebrews 11:22 By faith Joseph,

No one who has faith in Jesus disobeys God. If they do they repent immediately
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 12/9/10


Gal 3:2-3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:11-12 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
---micha9344 on 12/9/10


That was a low blow Christan. You know good and well thats not what she meant.

It is easy for us because Christ performed all those things which were impossible for us to ensure our salvation. And he didnt do it begrudgingly. It was his pleasure to die for us even though he suffered greatly. Compared to what our Lord Jesus Christ did, having faith in Him IS very easy.
---JackB on 12/9/10


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JackB,
You said one of the purposes of the "law" is "to show us how to live a life pleasing to God AFTER Jesus Christ has saved us".
Then to support that you said "faith in God (Jesus Christ) makes us righteous".
---
Huh??? I don't get your emphasis on "AFTER Christ saved us". Also I assume that you equate pleasing God w/ righteousness. I don't know but Abraham, Moses, David & the prophets were righteous (yet imperfect) men in the OT who lived by faith in God (Yahweh) BEFORE Christ saved us and/or BEFORE the law was given.
God's Word (including its commands) shows all men how to live a life pleasing God, but not all men have the faith to obey.
---AG on 12/9/10


//Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

The problem is you have been unable to even answer a wise man let alone a fool.

//Abraham the father of those who has faith:
Genesis 26:5... Abraham OBEYED MY LAWS.

Our problem with you is that you demand obedience to selected OT laws not found within the New Covenant of the church. Such strictly Jewish ordinances as Sabbath keeping, dietary laws were not not mandated to Gentile believers.

Admit it, you are a child of Hagar promoting the law that came down from Mt. Sinai. Gal. 4. We call them neo-Judaizers.
---leej on 12/9/10


//Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets,

Righteousness is obedience to the law//---Francis

Galatians 5:4,5

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace.

For we through the Spirit WAIT FOR THE HOPE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS by faith.
---JackB on 12/9/10


francis, may I ask you a question. When you read Hebrews 11, the wonderful chapter about Faith, and what Faith is and that of OT Saints even Moses is mentioned, what do you see?

Does God anywhere even state that God was pleased with Moses for keeping the Law?

Was the LAW even mentioned at all. Was the Sabbath keeping even mentioned at all?

Also, notice no one was Born Again first to have faith, or that only the elect were given faith.

Faith is trusting what God has already spoken to you and me.

Faith is actually obedience acted out.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/10


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---LEEJ 12/8/10
Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Habbakuk 2:4 but the just shall live by his faith.

You do realize that this text is also in the OT, and they also obeyed the law?

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith:

It is also in the NT and
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Anyone who truely be.ieves in God not only has faithin god, but because he has faith in God he OBEYS God.

Abraham the father of those who has faith:
Genesis 26:5... Abraham OBEYED MY LAWS.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham,
---francis on 12/9/10


//What many people just do not get is that everyone who has FAITH in Jesus also keeps his laws.//

This is the typical religiosity statement...followed by, you must do this or that if you really love God, give tithes, teach sundy school, have devotions, do a christian service...whatever it is that the "religious leader" wants others to do in the name of loving God.
---Rod4Him on 12/9/10


Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets,

Righteousnessis obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law, but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinners account. Christs righteousness is accepted in place of mans failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son.
---francis on 12/9/10


kathr, you say, "God made salvation so EASY for who so ever will, making it by faith."

EASY you say? Really? Jesus Christ came to suffer for the sins of His people (not His for He was sinless) and then to give up His life at Calvary that a Christian may have eternal life. And your attitude to His sacrifice was EASY? Don't you even feel a bit remorseful as a Christian that because of your sins and mine, Christ suffered and died?

But alas, truth be told, Christ indeed didn't die for everyone but only for those whom His Father has given to Him before the foundations of the world. You know where these verses came from. Or do you?
---christan on 12/9/10


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//Huh?
God's Word also showed Moses, Samuel, David, Isiah, Jeremiah etc how to live a life pleasing to God BEFORE Christ.
---AG on 12/8/10
//

Without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6)

Faith that God (Jesus Christ) makes us righteous. All the credit must go to Him. Any obedience to the law we do MUST be done out of love. If we start fearing condemnation when we err then thats proof we are placing our faith in the law to make us righteous instead of Christ.
---JackB on 12/9/10


I agree with this post ---leej on 12/8/10

.
---mima on 12/9/10


//What many people just do not get is that everyone who has FAITH in Jesus also keeps his laws.

The problem you have with Christians is they believe what the Bible has to say.

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, The righteous shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for The righteous shall live by faith.

Francis - the righteous shall live by WHAT? Can you answer that?

Galatians 3:12 But the law is not of faith, rather The one who does them shall live by them.
---leej on 12/8/10


//What many people just do not get is that everyone who has FAITH in Jesus also keeps his laws.

Good works done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true & lively faith, and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edity their brethren, adorn the profession of the gospel, stop the mouths of adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life. (Westminster Confessions XVI,II)

1Co 1:31 Therefore, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

Your problem is what laws are applicable to the Christian.
---leej on 12/8/10


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What many people just do not get is that everyone who has FAITH in Jesus also keeps his laws.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 which keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
---francis on 12/8/10


JackB - "To show us how to live a life pleasing to God AFTER Jesus Christ has saved us."
---
Huh?
God's Word also showed Moses, Samuel, David, Isiah, Jeremiah etc how to live a life pleasing to God BEFORE Christ.
---AG on 12/8/10


-- L_Will :

Brethren, The purpose of God's law was as a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be Justified by Faith.

Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the Promise by Faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that Believe. But before Faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the Faith which should after wards be revealed... and after Faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We are all the Children of God by Faith in Christ Jesus, where there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female, nor any division in the Body of Christ do to denominations: for we are all one in Christ Jesus and Heirs according to the Promise.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/8/10


The difference between law and faith is that NO ONE could keep the Law. God made salvation so EASY for who so ever will, making it by faith.

Faith is something anyone, even the most horrible sinner can do.

All you have to do is Believe God. How easy is that. God said His foolishness is greater than man's wisdom.

God used faith as foolishness to bring the wise to nothing.

The wise want to make something hard and mystical about faith. Making it even harder/more impossible than the Law itself. These are enemies of the Cross!

/
---kathr4453 on 12/8/10


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The conbined pictorgraphs for the Hebrew word that is often translated "Law" is "the hand of man" and means "to point," -its' meaning is "will teach you what you shall do-the way pointed out by the teacher--the journey.The one who points off course "misses the mark, or strays from the path." When we stray from the path, we--"Miss The Mark". The Hebrew word for "missing the mark" is (hhatah), "sin"- "trespass," to leave the path.
Deuteronomy 9:16

Psalm 119:1, "Happy are the mature ones of the trail, the ones walking in the journey of YHWH."
---char on 12/8/10


It was never given to make us righteous. (Galatians 3:19-26)
---JackB on 12/8/10

JackB did you actually READ and UNDERSTAND what i was saying? Did I ever say that the law made us righteous?

My post was ONLY about being JUDGED BY THE LAW.

read it again.
If you are a true christian you will appologize.
---francis on 12/8/10


Rob,
You said so many are trusting in their own "efforts and merits...for their salvation."
I've never met a self-professed Christian (of any creed) who claimed their salvation was based on anything but faith in God's promised messiah as descibed in John 3:16.
I certainly have met people who claim works are important after salvation but not for salvation itself.

I'm courious if even one person on these boards would say any effort or merit apart from faith will save them?
---AG on 12/8/10


For direction.
---Eloy on 12/8/10


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//if there is truly a "righteousness of God without the law" then why do people like Francis keep honking the law especially the Jewish Sabbath and the Levitical dietary laws.//

Because they are under the same deception the people at Galatia were. Law + grace for righteousness, instead of law out of love because of grace.
---JackB on 12/7/10


//Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law//

Using verses like this to prove your point is like opening a 300 page novel but closing the book on page 20 and calling that the end.

Keep reading the book, Francis.

Theres a "BUT" later on in chapter 3 thats very important.
---JackB on 12/7/10


The purpose of God's law is simple -

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
Romans 3:19,20

"That no flesh should glory in his presence." 1 Cor 1:29

The fallen man has no ability whatsoever to obey the laws of God. For without Faith from God, nothing pleases Him. The law has sentenced mankind to death. Only through Christ's blood is the sinner cleanse through Faith.
---christan on 12/8/10


//What is the purpose of God's law?//

To prove us guilty of evil and unworthy of life

To point us to our need for Jesus Christ to save us.

To show us how to live a life pleasing to God AFTER Jesus Christ has saved us.

It was never given to make us righteous. (Galatians 3:19-26)
---JackB on 12/8/10


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Francis the redeemed will not be judged and sorted, they have already been imputed with the righteousness of Christ.
Their works will however be tried and the unworthy works will be burned off as dross. (see 1 Corinthians 3)
Jesus took the judgement of our sin in his body there is nothing left to judge except our works. Now the unbelievers face a judgment and we already know how that is going to go. It's a technicality but I felt you need to present this properly... this is why God's people face discipline now for their sin because the final judgment is already determined for those in Christ.
---Pharisee on 12/8/10


Another purpose was to show there is no such thng as limited atonement.

The blood of bulls and goats shed were for ALL THE PEOPLE for ALL SIN.

There is so much we can learn from the Law.
---kathr4453 on 12/8/10


I believe the purpose of the LAW was to prove except for CHRIST, we all (INCLUDING MYSELF) have SINNED and fallen SHORT OF THE CLORY OF GOD, Romans 3:23.

This is why we all need a SAVIOR which is not found in or through any person, but is found through CHRIST AND CHRIST ALONE, Romans 5:12-21.

It is sad there are so many people who are trusting in their own efforts or merits, and trusting in other people for THEIR SALVATION, yet they are not trusting in, and they are rejecting CHRIST.
---Rob on 12/7/10


MIMA. The model given to us to understand the redeemption of God is the earthly sanctuary. Those who repented of their sins, had the blood of the lamb placed on the veil. Once per year on the day of atonement, the sins were cleansed.

Everyone of us will be judged. Those who have confessed their sins, will be covered by the blood of Jesus, those who have not will be cut off.

If you have trusted in christ, when the books are opened it will reveal that your sins are covered.

Romans 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Remember judgment can go two ways, guilty or guiltless.
leviticus 16 hebrews 9
---francis on 12/7/10


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JackB //But now the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets,

if there is truly a "righteousness of God without the law" then why do people like Francis keep honking the law especially the Jewish Sabbath and the Levitical dietary laws.

Obviously they fail to realize that Jesus is our Savior not obedience to cherry picked OT laws.

I keep wondering when Francis and other SDAs will quit wasting their time and come into the knowledge of the truth, or will they continue to promote the Judaizers?
---leej on 12/7/10


I believe the Westminster Confessions XIX,VI answers this question very well.

Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works,to be thereby justified or condemned, yet is it of geat use to them and others in that as a rule of life informing them of the will of God and their duty it directs and binds them to walk accordingly, discovering the sinful pollution of their nature, hearts & lives, so a examining themselves thereby, may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin together with a clearer sight of the need they have for Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.

To say anything else would only be an opinion.
---leej on 12/7/10


To show need of the Saviour-Expose the weakness of the flesh-To confirm and prove that without the shredding of the Blood of the Word of God-in flesh-we all fall short.-Repentance to remission.-Confessing our sins believing the resurrection from death-(result from sin).The Word of God in Flesh-was sacrificed- for mankinds access to redemption. Without confessing God's Word believing-confessing and repenting- our sin's are not shred and forgotten by God who sent His Word to Save us from death in return for eternal life.--//2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.//

To this I agree.
---char on 12/7/10


There are two purposes to God's law. 1st when unsaved, convicts of sin to bring the lost to Christ. 2nd when saved, points to God as being the ONLY God and Lord (boss) on the throne, and NOT us. When we are saved and break God's law or think we do not have to live by that anymore, it puts us on the throne as God, and says to God He is not in control but WE are.
---Leslie on 12/7/10


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Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, Everyone must be judged.
For the christian he has jesus as Judge and advocate.

the case in already in his favour, and he will be dclared guiltless.

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
---francis on 12/7/10


//It is the standard by which we will all be judged.
---francis on 12/6/10//

Do you skip verses like these, Francis?

Romans 3:21-23

But now the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets,

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

Being JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
---JackB on 12/7/10


---francis I am under the impression that the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to remove our sins. So being a Christian if I am to be judged by God for any of my sins then Jesus did not accomplish what the Bible says he accomplished. Namely" behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world"
---mima on 12/7/10


MIMA everyone must be judged.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

The christian will be covered by the blood of christ, and be vindicated.
---francis on 12/7/10


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"It is the standard by which we will all be judged."
---francis on 12/6/10

The above statement by Francis is wrong!!!! No Christian will be judged by the law. The Lord Jesus Christ has already been judged for each of us. And by the law no flesh shall be justified. As it says in Colossians the law was nailed to the cross does that not tell you that the law has been done away with as concerns judgment?
---mima on 12/7/10


It was God's method of showing us that there was no way we could meet His standards of gaining a place in heaven. The only person who could do this was Christ. He was able to meet the standard God wanted, and He was able to fulfill the requirments of the law. Through Him, we can have eternal life in heaven.
Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
---wivv on 12/7/10


John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Matthew 19:19 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Psalms 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart, none of his steps shall slide.

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:

Psalms 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

Romans 3:20 by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law of God keeps the believer in harmony with God. It guides his steps in right living. It teaches us how to love God, and our neighbour.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

It is the standard by which we will all be judged.
---francis on 12/6/10


It "was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


The law can only condemn us. It shows us our need for the Savior, Jesus CHrist
---JackB on 12/7/10


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What is the purpose of God's law?
"The law was/[is] our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Gal 3:24
"Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more." Rom 5:20
"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners..." 1Ti 1:9
---josef on 12/7/10


Everything God makes has both a purpose (in our case to be with Him and worship Him) and also is made with some ways of living

Some (eating and sleeping) we do even when we are not told

Others (about justice) we have been trying, since we fell, to avoid

Thus, God gave us His law, to reind us of how He made us to live
---Peter on 12/7/10


All of God's word is given so that we may know him, even his laws. Jesus said that the scriptures testified of himself.

A person can find a way according to God's laws, but where that way leads him is to destruction if he does not connect the dots (for lack of better phrasing) back to the one who gave the word. The pharisees are our warning in that. The apostle Paul when he was yet Saul is an example of that, that we can know his word and not know him through the spirit that gave that word. Find Christ in the law, it's what it's there for. It's meant to be relational, and since the spirit of man is darkened and aliened from God there had to be made a way to get back to God.
---Pharisee on 12/6/10


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