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Pastors Rejecting Christ

Canada's popular spiritual talk show host no longer believes in a God. A southern Baptist pastor has been a closet atheist. An evangelical bible belt pastor lived out his life as if their is no God. And the numbers keep climbing. If the christian leaders fall, how many Christians will follow?

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Pre-trib rapture does have problems when compared with what scripture says.

AT THE LAST TRUMPET the dead in Christ will rise, then we who are alive will be changed 1Cor 15:52). What last trumpet? Maybe the seventh trumpet when the mystery of God will be finished? (Rev 10:7)

Christ will come with ALL His saints (1Thess 3:13). If all the saints leave before the tribulation, then more come to faith during the tribulation, and are here when He comes back, then He would come back with MOST OF His saints, not all of them, right?

We are told to be patient, or endure, until Christ returns (James 5:7). How can we endure for 7 more years after we're gone?
---James_L on 12/15/10


\\ If you go with the Bible as you say you do, then you are WRONG and you go ONLY with your own personal beliefs.\\

If you went with the Bible, then you would NOT believe in a pre-trib rapture, Leslie. It's clear you're going ONLY with your own personal beliefs.

There will be nothing to be left behind for UNTIL Jesus returns to gather His people AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION, as the Bible clearly teaches.
---Cluny on 12/16/10


Obviously, there can only be one truth about end times. I'm just not sure which it is (though I tend not to believe pre-trib)
The verses you cited did not provide an answer either.

//Do you fulfill the great commision until Christ returns... or do you fulfill it 7 years before His return?//

Does it make a difference?
As long as you are fulfilling the great commission...
---Donna66 on 12/16/10


In answer to the question, none will. In that case the blind are leading the blind. All genuine Christians are sustained by Christ. ( 1 Cor. 1:7-9.)

As to what Leej said to barb, he is correct. She said to only follow Christ, which is the condition we are suppose to be in. The apostles followed Christ each day and they had trouble believing what He was saying, and they were present with Him. Though Barb is correct that we now have the Holy Spirit, it is not like the Holy Spirits only job is to talk to us all the time, He also puts people in our paths to correct us so that we can understand how to interpret Scripture. He also influence us to have a greater passion to learn. He is working through so many members of the His body.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/10


Sorry Donna66, but there is ony ONE truth.

Read the verses I supplied in my post. It is the direct words of Christ.
---John on 12/15/10




Yes, "Pre-trib", "mid-trib' and "Post-trib" are ALL speculation. We won't know for sure until something happens. A lot of believers in Pre-trib, (which doesn't include me) aren't passively waiting. They want to spread the Gospel so people can be reconciled to God before the tribulation.

Jam 4:13-15 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
---Donna66 on 12/15/10


Don't play the Harlot.

2 Corinthians 11:2-4 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste VIRGIN to CHRIST.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are WITH CHILD, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people
---char on 12/15/10


Leslie are you a new Christian?

I suspect you may have been exposed to some new Rock and Roll "ain't Jesus cool" Ricky Warren church. Where all you need to do is the 1 minute (get out of hell) sinners prayer ticket. And you're done with Jesus. Free to live your life with no worries and without tribulation. Especially the big one that G-d warns us about.

You're going to have a hard time arguing with Cluny. He is well knowledge and a formidable opponent.

Unless you are a New convert, then he'll let you slide on some issues.
---John on 12/15/10


I think we'll be in Heaven before we all agree whether it's pre-trib, mid or post lol! :D
---Mary on 12/15/10


Cluny, John, Rod4Him, and leej: Cluny - If you go with the Bible as you say you do, then you are WRONG and you go ONLY with your own personal beliefs. John - You misquote scripture to go with your own personal beliefs, NOT the Bible. Rod4Him - I go with the Bible and the Holy Spirit teaching me the Bible ONLY, NOT my own personal beliefs or opinion. leej - I NEVER said you had to read "Left Behind" in order to be saved, but if you are NOT saved, you WILL be left behind.
---Leslie on 12/15/10




//Pre-trib is a speculation. ---Rod4Him on 12/15/10//
Likewise, I see post-trib as speculation with negative results. The most frequent I see is the belief that the Church the Body of Christ is somehow spiritual or replacement Israel.
// people think, "all I have to do is wait for Jesus to get me out of this mess,"//
I don't recall ever having that thought
---michael_e on 12/15/10


Hi michael e, "the us" are the people who read these blogs.

As far as "explaining to them Biblically" where they are wrong, we have had our discussions similar to these blogs...ok, in most cases we agree to disagree and focus on what is most important, and that is living godly in Christ Jesus, including loving/forgiving one another, quite a challenge in itself.

One could make two lists on a paper, what do we "know," and "what we speculate about."

Pre-trib is a speculation. However, it does have some negative results. For one, people think, "all I have to do is wait for Jesus to get me out of this mess," verses focusing on living in Christ Jesus.
---Rod4Him on 12/15/10


Barb //Christian leaders will always fall because they follow other christian leaders who follow other christian leaders...follow Jesus and Him alone.

I think it more likely that all too often Christian leaders follow only a small handful of other Christian leaders and are not taught to be critical of what they teach.

Some of our major seminaries today are very top heavy with liberal theologians who simply do not follow Jesus at all but their own religious philosophy.

Pr 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety.
Pr 24:6 for by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory.
---leej on 12/14/10


NOW LET'S LOOK AT THE VERSE THESE HERETICS PERVERT....

"We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord

Does it say when???
It simply saids the dead will rise first. Nothing else!

Do you fulfill the great commision until Christ returns... or do you fulfill it 7 years before His return?

BTW... This was written to Thessalonians who heard rumors that Jesus already return in Jeruselam and it was too late for them. Paul was comforting their fears.
---John on 12/14/10


//Rod4Him on 12/14/10 I have good friends who believe pre-trib. I can't help it if they are wrong.//
Since you mention me and my "system" and you want Leslie to //explain it to us// who ever us is, why don't you help out your "good friends" and explain to them Biblically where they are wrong?
---michael_e on 12/14/10


Christian leaders will always fall because they follow other christian leaders who follow other christian leaders...follow Jesus and Him alone. Listen to His words, practice his words and live his words. Forget Christians and become a follower of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Don't look to others for truth. You have to find it for yourself. Jesus promised us that the Holy Spirit would lead us into ALL truth. All we have to do is ASK. "Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you."
---barb on 12/14/10


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Leslie //Let me tell you that you all will be sadly mistaken when you are left behind.

There is nothing in Scripture that states we must have the right eschatology for our salvation. Those in Christ will be saved no matter what their eschatology is.

It is strange that some believe we must accept what we read in the Left Behind books series as it is but a recent theory and simply just another viewpoint.
---leej on 12/14/10


I'm kinda curious how the discussion on the posted question has turned to tribulation. Pre- Post or otherwise? I feel that the most important thing to do is be prepared---NO MATTER WHEN CHRIST RETURNS--- then you'll be ready for whatever. Just watch the times & stay close to God. Why people feel the need to argue those points has always confused me. When He's going to return is not as important as knowing He is coming back & being prepared to meet Him. Of course I have my theory on the subject but I feel it's more important to agree to disagree on subjects like this because Salvation is the most important of all.
---Reba on 12/14/10


NOW HEAR WHAT JESUS SAID...

MATT 24:29-31
JOHN 17:15
JOHN 6:39-40,44,54
JOHN 11:24
JOHN 12:48
DAN 12:1-3

CASE CLOSED!!!
---John on 12/14/10
You left out the New Testament
---michael_e on 12/14/10


Leslie, I know michael e has a system of belief for a pre-trib rapture. I don't think you do. On what basis do you believe in a pre-trib rapture besides that someone told you so. What is your system? Where do you find it? No fair asking someone, right now explain it to us. Thanks.

My complaint in this discussion is the condemning of people who don't believe in a pre-trib. I have good friends who believe pre-trib. I can't help it if they are wrong. :)
---Rod4Him on 12/14/10


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Leslie Pri-Trib is a Heresy!!!

It was started (19th century) by a Witch named Margaret McDonald(Google it)passed to John Darby then to John Scoffield who brought to America.

Tribulation is for believers, Wrath is for the wicked. All believers have gone through tribulation. Why would G-d give "YOU" a pass??? It comes from the word Tribul. A sled use to seperate the Wheat from the Chaff. A testing of faith.

NOW HEAR WHAT JESUS SAID...

MATT 24:29-31
JOHN 17:15
JOHN 6:39-40,44,54
JOHN 11:24
JOHN 12:48
DAN 12:1-3

CASE CLOSED!!!
---John on 12/14/10


\\Michael
Who will be in the thousand yr reign?\\

There's no a literal earthly millennium, either.

**Those who do not believe that 1 Thessalonians is talking about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture are basicly saying they are right and God is WRONG.**

Leslise, NOWHERE does 1 Thess say that the rapture takes place BEFORE the Tribulation--only that it will take place.

I'd rather believe the Bible is right and YOU are wrong.
---Cluny on 12/14/10


//There is such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Leslie, you are correct
---michael_e on 12/13/10

Michael
Who will be in the thousand yr reign?
Those who are beheaded because they refused the Mark of the Beast.
When is the Mark of the Beast received?
During the Tribulation.
What is another name for the 1000 Yr. Reign?
It is called the 1st Ressurection.

Now since the 1000 yr. Reign is called the 1st Ressurection, and it happens during the Tribulation, if the Pre- Tribulation teaching were true, the 1000 yr. Reign would be called the Second Ressurection.
(Revelation 20:4-5)
---David on 12/14/10


//There is such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture -look at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11. ---Leslie on 12/9/10

Leslie, you are correct,

1Thess 4 an unprophesied event for the church the BOC
Matt 24 A prophesied event for the nation of Israel,
---michael_e on 12/13/10


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1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Was there anyone in the church during the first 18 centuries that believed in a secret rapture?

While that 'day' may overtake those who do not believe, those that await His coming will see the obvious signs.

Much of the bad theology was created early in the 20th century and those like the Left Behind writers made millions of bucks with their literaly (and very speculative) interpretations of Scripture.
---leej on 12/13/10


Those who do not believe that 1 Thessalonians is talking about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture are basicly saying they are right and God is WRONG. Let me tell you that you all will be sadly mistaken when you are left behind. Yes, you could be right, but what if you are not? I go with the Bible, NOT my opinion, as most of you do.
---Leslie on 12/13/10


\\1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11 talk about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.\\

No, Lesilie.

YOU are wrong.

There's NOTHING in this passage that means "pre-trib rapture" unless you read that into the passage.
---Cluny on 12/12/10


His Word bearwitness of Himself.Jn8:28,Jn1:1-15

Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I AM?
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual ROCK that FOLLOWED them: and that ROCK WAS CHRIST.
Isaiah 44:8 8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a GOD beside me? No,there is NO OTHER ROCK,yea,I know not one.
Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the FOUNDATION ON ROCK: and when the FLOOD AROSE, the stream beat VEHEMENTLY upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was FOUNDED upon A ROCK.

Praise Him for Mercy and Grace
---char on 12/12/10


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(Matthew 24:29-30)
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Leslie
When you read (Matthew 24) you will discover that Jesus says that he comes after the Tribulation, not before the Tribulation.
This came from the mouth of the Son of God.
Is he wrong, or are you wrong?
---David on 12/12/10


//If the christian leaders fall, how many Christians will follow?//
None, if they are true chritians, because true christians don't follow some wanna be, "religious" leader.
Our Apostle Paul said follow me as I follow Christ(1cor 4:16,11:12 phil. 3,17 2 Thess 2:7,9 1 tim 1:6)
Very easy to follow.
---michael_e on 12/12/10


DAVID 12/12/10 - The believers go though the tribulation.

REVELATION 7:14 And I said unto him, sir , thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION,and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the lamb.

GOD is the author of the Bible: Not many writers.The prophets just wrote down what God wanted them to write.

2 PETER 1,21 For the prophecy came not in old time by will of man.-----------

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of GOD.-------

God even gives example how this was done. Check out ---
JEREMIAH 30:2
JEREMIAH 36:2
DEUTERONOMY 18:18
---RICHARD on 12/12/10


"[16]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. [17]Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. [18]Therefore comfort one another with these words."

Leslie, please point out where the above verses say, "pre-trib."
---Rod4Him on 12/12/10


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David and MarkV. - It is clear that both of you are AGAINST God and the Bible.---Leslie on 12/11/10

(Deuteronomy 19:15)
"A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."


Leslie
When I teach a lesson to my students, the teaching is supported by many different writer's in the Bible.
In this way, my teaching have a witness, and the student is not left with my foolish interpretation's of the Bible and know that it comes from God.
Many teacher's make this mistake, and that is why we have all these doctrine's.

Can you give us another writer that supports your claim's that Paul was teaching Pre-tribulation?




---David on 12/12/10


Leslie, when you said,

"Believing in the Pre-Tribulation or not is NOT the basis or requirement of salvation, ---Leslie on 12/10/10"
I believe it. Not understanding the events of the ends times does not cause anyone who is saved to lose their salvation as David has suggested. And it is not the basis or requirement for salvation. Instead of discussing the events you right away say,
It is clear that both of you are AGAINST God and the Bible." Do not put me in with David. Plus I do understand the Bible on those events and if you had ask I would have told you. You assume you know and others don't. The whole left behind stories are false. Before you condemn anyone, why don't you find out what they believe.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/10


David and MarkV. - It is clear that both of you are AGAINST God and the Bible. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11 talk about the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Either God is a liar and wrong, or you are.
---Leslie on 12/11/10


Rod4Him - I did not say you are against the Bible, except if you do not believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which it talks about in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11. What I said was if you are not saved, you WILL be left behind. Now tell me, who is right you or God?
---Leslie on 12/11/10


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Only the sheep will hear the voice of his Shepherd. And that's because, "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out."

In other words, Christ knew who He was dying for at Calvary and those that He died for will indeed go to Him when God's time comes for him to return to the Shepherd's fold.

A sheep will never die in the state of unbelief (the goats) of the truth of who Jesus Christ and God is. The sheep will be regenerated (born of the Spirit of God) and be justified by faith before he dies.
---christan on 12/11/10


David, you have expressed my sentiments exactly.

Those looking for a pre-trib rapture will be among the first to fall down and worship the Beast.

"He can't possibly be the Anti-Christ. We're still here. Once saved, always saved. Gonna go up in the rapture. Fixed for time and eternity. I've got peace and safety and eternal security."

The Bible says, "When they say, 'Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction shall come upon them, and they WILL NOT ESCAPE."
---Cluny on 12/11/10


Just because one has the title of pastor or priest does not mean they are in Christ, test the spirits and see if they are of God.
---Tony on 12/11/10


Lesie, I responded to your statement,

"If you are saying there is no such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, you are AGAINST the Bible and God."

Rather than lecturing me, it would be more appropriate to apologize for your incorrect statement. Maybe I misunderstood. Please explain your statement. Thanks
---Rod4Him on 12/11/10


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Believing in the Pre-Tribulation or not is NOT the basis or requirement of salvation, ---Leslie on 12/10/10

Leslie
I was reading your posts and agree with many of them, but on this I disagree.

Think about this:
If there isn't a Pre-Trib rapture, what will keep those who believe in it, from getting the Mark of the Beast?
Since they believe Jesus will come for them before the Tribulation, they will not know when they are in the Tribulation.
When they are in the Tribulation, what reason will they have not to receive the Mark of the Beast, since this Mark will be required to purchase food?
Those who receive this Mark, will lose their Salvation.



---David on 12/11/10


The movie "left behind" is bogus. The five concepts of left behind are being taught on radio, television, at prophecy conferences, and many books and movies. When it comes to popular prophetic theories, many portions of Christianity is now in the midst of another outage-a truth outage. The Bible clearly predicts, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers, and they will turn away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables" 2 Timothy 4:3-4.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/10


"Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered"

If one has made men their Shepherd, the above statement will be the same as it was when the Lord's disciples scattered when he was crusified.

Who is their shepherd, Jesus or their pastors?
---David on 12/11/10


\\... if you are NOT saved you WILL be left behind when the Pre-Tribulation Rapture happens, the Bible is clear on this\\

The Bible is VERY clear that there is no such thing as a Pre-trib rapture.

Isaac Watts sang,
"Shall I be carried to the clouds on flow'ry beds of ease
While others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas?"

The rapturist sings, "You'd better believe it!"
---Cluny on 12/11/10


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Rod4Him & Mary - 1st Rod4Him -Believing in the Pre-Tribulation or not is NOT the basis or requirement of salvation, however, if you are NOT saved you WILL be left behind when the Pre-Tribulation Rapture happens, the Bible is clear on this. 2nd Mary - Dead in Christ means those who have already died and were saved during this time, they will be the ones going in the Pre-Tribulation along with those alive in Christ (still alive and saved). Christ will ONLY come back during the 1000 year reign, this is just those who are in Christ being caught up into Heaven.
---Leslie on 12/10/10


If you believe the bible you know that many will fall.
This should not be a surprise.
The narrow road is chosen by few though God will also sustain a remnant.
He will not be without a witness.
---larry on 12/10/10


Leslie, how do you explain that the dead rise first if there's a pre-tribulation rapture? Why would God come back twice? I mean, there will be many more dead after the tribulation. It also says somewhere in those two books that Jesus blows away the anti-Christ with his coming.
---Mary on 12/10/10


The bible speaks of mockers, scoffers and those ignorant of truth as Gods warnings to us in the end times concerning the rapture. The great hope is what the scripture calls the pre tribulation return of Jesus Christ. The scoffers only prove how close we are

As to who will be left behind I do not wish to speculate. But of this we can be certain some will be left behind.
---mima on 12/10/10


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Adventist literature reveals the teaching that the believer in Christ can with the help of the Holy Spirit attain to a righteousness that the law demands and thus merit eternal life.

In effect, they reject the concept of imputed righteousness - that the righteousness of Christ is accredited to the believer by faith.

And that is why Francis honks obedience to law, he thinks he can obey all the law with the aid of God's Spirit to merit eternal life.
---leej on 12/10/10


//If you are saying there is no such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, you are AGAINST the Bible and God.//

Strange...I missed the verse that says, "If thou shalt confess the pre-trib rapture, you will be saved."
---Rod4Him on 12/10/10


JackB, A-men.
---Eloy on 12/10/10


Leslie...Having a heart for souls does not mean that we can control other peoples' decisions.
---karenD on 12/10/10


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Cluny, you provided a passage that doesn't reprove what I said. You provided a passage for those who think they are saved but or not. Sorry. I was not talking about those. I was talking about the children of God, who were born of the Spirit. And I provided a passage for you, 1 Cor. 1:7-9. And you rejected it. I will post it again,

"..so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ: "who will sustain you to the end," guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord"
God provides every necessary means to sustain us. I believe God's Word not yours.
---Mark_V. on 12/10/10


Psalm 31:19-20 (N.I.V.)
How great is your goodness, which you have stored up for those who fear you, which you bestow in the sight of men on those who take refuge in you.
In the shelter of your presence you hide them from the intrigues of men, in your dwelling you keep them safe from accusing tongues.
---Allan_McDougall on 12/10/10


The true "Rock" is solid.
If you are standing on it-when the winds come-it will not faulter-you.

Is 44:6-6Is 17:10

Matthew 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house, and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
---char on 12/10/10


Cluny - You are WRONG as usual. There is such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture -look at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11. If you are saying there is no such thing as a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, you are AGAINST the Bible and God. Will you be left behind? From this response and others you have made, I believe you will be left behind, and if you do not come to Christ then, will go to Hell. On the other hand, you could be right about this rapture thing, but what if you are wrong?
---Leslie on 12/9/10


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Sag - Sounds to me like you really don't care if people (including Pastors) die and go to Hell, and take their congragates along with them - is this correct? If so, I can say with certainty that you are NOT saved, because you do NOT have the heart of Jesus for souls.
---Leslie on 12/9/10

Did you READ, and UNDERSTAND, my post? Sounds like you did not.

I mentioned that Pastors, and their followers, MUST decide -- "individually" too -- whom them will serve. There are only TWO choices: GOD and the WORLD [Satan's Kingdom].

Those who serve GOD will be "saved" and will not perish. And those who serve any other gods will fall. Like the Leaders in the original blog question.

Clear enough?
---Sag on 12/9/10


Cluny //Everybody's going to be left behind, because there's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

You are probably correct in that those that belong to the Lord will recognize the signs of His coming while those who are not believers will be caught unaware.
---leej on 12/9/10


\\No genuine Christians will fall. Period\\

Not according to the Bible, MarkV.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
---Cluny on 12/9/10


If the christian leaders fall, how many Christians will follow?

NONE!

All who fall are NOT Christians and never were. As The apostle John has written.

The only people who will fall are the Psuedo Carnal worldly Beorgiouse so called Christians and their Leaders.

Followers of antichrists Worldly rich phonies like Ricky Warren, Joel Olstein, Joyce Myers, Tim Le hay, Max Lucado and all the vomit books, cool praise music etc etc you see being sold in those newstyle Psuedo abominations called "Christian Book stores"
---John on 12/9/10


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Here is a question that is very simple and don't know why it was even ask,

"And the numbers keep climbing. If the christian leaders fall, how many Christians will follow?"
None. No genuine Christians will fall. Period. If those people are lost, and the pastor is lost, then they have not anything to fall from that they haven't fallen from already. They were never saved to begin with. Those led by the Spirit will not fall. None of God's children will ever fall. They are been sustain by Christ. 1 Cor. 1:7-9 says,
"...so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ"
---Mark_V. on 12/9/10


\\Look at the Pastor that was in the book and movie "Left Behind" - he was left behind.
---Leslie on 12/8/10\\

Everybody's going to be left behind, because there's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.
---Cluny on 12/9/10


1 Peter 4:17....For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Nothing new. It was happening in Peter's time.
---KarenD on 12/9/10


//If the christian leaders fall, how many Christians will follow?//---StevenG

Only the ones who follow the pastors instead of Christ.
---JackB on 12/9/10


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the sorrow i hear is it seems the preachers are preaching a capitalistic christianity,as if when capitalist society say's it is right/wrong,it somehow is a new law from God Almighty.
---kevin5443 on 12/9/10


That is such a sad story of a false prophet I pray those lost will find their way and know Gods grace will still forgive them their decision if they just turn back to Him. Those who don't.... what can I say...sorry for their loss of freedom...
---Steven_Andrzejewski on 12/9/10


Sag - Sounds to me like you really don't care if people (including Pastors) die and go to Hell, and take their congragates along with them - is this correct? If so, I can say with certainty that you are NOT saved, because you do NOT have the heart of Jesus for souls.
---Leslie on 12/9/10


Even as worst is a pastor who rejects what is viewed as the Word of God.

The denomination I resigned from had a vice-moderator that claimed the Bible is not the word of God but only a reference point.

Without such standard, they are now ordaining the sexual immoral to the ministry. And the sheep are leaving - over 160,000 last year alone.
---leej on 12/9/10


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It is no surprise that people are losing faith. The bible says that in the last days that men would become truce breakers, unruly, lovers of themselves and not lovers of God. Therefore women are now taking lead, sad but a necessary ambition, someone has to take control, women are having to,look after children, work,provide and keep them while they abandon not only their faith and church but also their families.

God Help these women!
---Carla on 12/9/10


Follow Christ, not hypocrites: for when the blind lead the blind, then both fall into the ditch.
---Eloy on 12/8/10


Romans 11:1 "Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." 2 "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,"

3 "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars, and I am left alone, and they seek my life." 4 "But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."

5 "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."
---christan on 12/9/10


Just the same old story of trying to make an easy living by holding a few services a week for pay.There's lots of it going on. It'll continue to go on till the Lord's return. Wolves in sheep's clothing.If people choose to follow them when they fall it just go to show where their heart was & that it never belonged to God. Keep your faith in God & when a preacher falls the only thing you will feel is disappointment. It will never shake your faith in God. And you wont be deceived if you'll follow along with them in the Bible as they preach. Really listen to what they teach. Stay close to God. Read His Word & Pray often. He'll guide you.
---Reba on 12/9/10


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So some Leaders are FALLING away from GOD? I say "So What?"

GOD has given EVERYONE the freedom to CHOOSE whom they will serve. HE still hasn't taken that freedom away from anyone. I'm frequently "awe struck" by the "bad choices" that some people -- even Spirit-Filled, High-Ranking, Christian Leaders -- make. With awful consequences that affect many others. Yet, GOD still respects their freedom to CHOOSE.

Each, and Everyone, of us will receive the proper reward for our CHOOSING whom we served on planet Earth. People MUST make their own decision to follow GOD. Regardless of what those Leaders are doing.

People are prone to fall only if THEY themselves decide to let that happen.
---Sag on 12/8/10


Pastors don't determine who will be faithful to God and his walk with or without God should not cause others to follow his bad example. That's the reason Christians should never put their eyes on man because when you do you take them off of God and it is he who will take us all the way to Heaven's shores. I have never been a preacher person,neither have I gone gaga over movie stars,singers,or any other person who is a leader. If you have an attitude of not getting so wrapped up in others,except your family,live and let live then you won't be affected by what others do. A relationship with God must be vertical reaching up to God for wisdom,love,strength,help,power and all our Spiritual needs,not horizontal reaching out to people for all of that.
---Darlene_1 on 12/8/10


Unfortunatly, there will be MANY Pastors in Hell, with their congragets with them, and those congragets' blood on their hands. The Bible says many will say Lord, Lord, and will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, and Christ will say I NEVER knew you. Look at the Pastor that was in the book and movie "Left Behind" - he was left behind.
---Leslie on 12/8/10


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