ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

What Is Lordship Salvation

How do you define Lordship salvation?

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Wisdom Bible Quiz
 ---mima on 12/10/10
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



Kathr,
I also apologize. I should have never taken an inference and run it over a cliff.

I absolutely argue against Lordship Salvation. John MacArthur is one of the leading proponents. He should change the name of his radio program from "grace to you" to "works to you"

He is a 5-point Calvinist who defines faith as a behavioral submission to the Lordship of Jesus. His book is titled "The gospel according to Jesus" in which he wrongly applies Jesus' teachings on works as being the "gospel", and believes that Paul's teaching on "faith alone" is actually the same

He obliterates the distinctions between faith/works, justification/sanctification,entering/inheriting heaven, etc
---James_L on 12/20/10


Jack, by your own admission, you are not one of the Elect. I'm sorry you only thought you were one that was called, and now find out you are not when you said,
\
"Let this be a lesson to us all to never question Gods "elect". For they are far more learned than the rest of us little Christians who only THINK we are Gods called."

You were only thinking you were one of the called. You just didn't believe you were. If you did believe by faith, you would know you are one of the Elect.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest, tha none of the were of us"

---Mark_V. on 12/20/10


We accept JESUS as our LORD and though power of the HOLY SPIRIT we walk in obcience to GOD because he saves us from sin.
---Samuel on 12/20/10


JackB ... It's like the Marxist attitude to the truth. You can tell any lies you like as long as it is good for the good of the Party.

And be proud of it.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/20/10


& Oh. Lord Mark ... I don't expect you to apologise for yuor lies
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/20/10




Let this be a lesson to us all to never question Gods "elect". For they are far more learned than the rest of us little Christians who only THINK we are Gods called.

The 'elect' never err in their doctrine, nor do they ever need to apologize for being presumptous.

The arrogance emitting from some people here is enough to make me ill.
---JackB on 12/20/10


Mark ... I humbly apologise, Sir, that I have pointed out your lies.

They are firmly on record
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/20/10


JamesL If I misunderstood you I do apologige. But the Thread is LordShip Salvation.

I replied, It should say Lordship Sanctification. For somereason you were asking questions...for what purpose JamesL...to disagree?

But it was you who argued against Lordship Salvation.

I really don't know any specific doctrines on Lordship Salvation, all I know is Jesus Christ is LORD.

Obviously many can and want to nit pick apart their salvation into categories.

To me, if your not being sanctified, your never were Justified.

You took offense to that??.

But JamesL that's ok. We will just agree to disagee without calling names and making up lies just because you disagree. Sanctified Saints do not do that!!
---kathr4453 on 12/20/10


Alan, you are whining again. Second, I don't need you to support when I write. You are not the barometer of righteousness, God's Word is. For who made you a judge? What I think you should do today is apologize for whining too much to me. I will accept your apology and move on.
---Mark_V. on 12/20/10


Mark V You misunderstood what Kathr said, and accused her of saying the Gospel was filthy.

I gently said to you that you'd misunderstood her.

You then not only repeated that Kathr had said that, but accused me of agreeing with her.

That turned you original misrepresentation into a double lie.

That is not offering peace

mark, when an untruth is said about anyone here, I will try to correct it. I have done it for several people who have been falsely represented .... including you!
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/19/10




Mima: Personally, I have never heard the term "Lordship Salvation". Haven't seen it in the Bible so it must be another man-made term. All I know is that we are "saved by grace though faith" in Jesus Christ and "not by works that any man should boast". It's pretty basic and simple.:)
---jody on 12/19/10


Kathr,
I have never, ever claimed to have an inheritance. I have quoted Romans 8:17 many times, which says we are joint heirs with Christ IF we suffer with Him. That works are not the inevitable by-product of saving faith, instead the co-operative condition by which we receive rewards.

I have never claimed that God has predestined anyone for hell. What I have said is that God does all the work in saving faith, that faith is not active but passive, that it is impossible to believe anything by choosing to. We have to be convinced in order to believe anything - whether the gospel or 2+2=4.

See, you read into what I write, then trot around blowing a trumpet and accusing me of having said something I didn't say. And it gets old.
---James_L on 12/19/10


Alan, in my opinion, and you seem to have many of them, you are nuts, maybe not medically, but in my opinion. You are a complainer, that did come from me. I admit that. I really do.
But I never said you said the gospel was filthy, you supported her view, and that is what I was responding to. So stop your crying and be a man. Respond with the Truth of Scripture, and I will give you the respect you want. You didn't respect my peace. You threw the peace I gave you in my face.
---Mark_V. on 12/19/10


I asked in this thread where do you find basis for asking how I can claim an inheritance. Have you answered?

You don't ever answer any of my questions, but I've answered all of yours. Why's that? And that is another question
---James_L on 12/18/10

Jamesl I answered your queston through scripture. You have claimed from the beginning you have an inheritance. I asked, based on what.

Paul tells us "an inheritance to those who are SANCTIFIED by faith".He did not use Justified. Paul also states, The GOSPEL turns men from satan to God. Therefore, GOD did not purposely blind anyone for hell.

I so love that verse. It totally rocked my world 30 years ago, and has ever since.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/10


Disputes among Christians is really nothing new, but what advantage is there?

I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? ... Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 1 Cor. 6:5f
---leej on 12/19/10


Mark ... "Alan, again you did not post what I wrote because you could not find it" Mark I did find it and cut and pasted.

This time I will quote you more fully:

You wrote this to me on 12/12 on the Gospel for salvation blog

"Alan, your going nuts hand in hand with Kathr. The blind leading the blind but don't call the Gospel filthy. ---Mark_V. on 12/12/10

Part 2: Alan I have never heard anyone calling the gospel filthy, only Kathr and you agree with her. Don't try to twist your way out. Admit it, if you are a child of God ...
---Mark_V. on 12/12/10

First you lied by saying Kathr and I say the Gospel is filth, and now you lie by denying it!!
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/19/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


James L, you never get any response to Scriptures but a lot of talk and opinions with no Scripture. I believe thousands of Scriptures have been posted, and only slanderous answers accompany their opinions of you and what you bring from Scripture. Then they complain you said something about them and the Truth goes out the door and their reputations suddenly become the subject. That only happens from a few here. Others answer with Scripture which gives you a reason to check for yourself if what they posted was the correct interpretation. Don't expect answers from Scripture but more opinions and slander.
---Mark_V. on 12/19/10


\\you also need to take your own advise...ASK FIRST what someone meant before making false assumptions.\\
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10

Kathr, anyone can read the thread you began on Dec 12th about the parable of the sower and see that I asked you on the same day to clarify so i could properly understand your words. It can also be seen that it's been 6 days, and not a peep from you. I really wanted to enter my thoughts on that topic, but wanted to wait for clarification. Where is the courtesy to answer?

I asked in this thread where do you find basis for asking how I can claim an inheritance. Have you answered?

You don't ever answer any of my questions, but I've answered all of yours. Why's that? And that is another question
---James_L on 12/18/10


Alan, again you did not post what I wrote because you could not find it. I never said you said the gospel was filthy but that she said it. And you still agreed to supported her. You twist what I said to make your point as you always do. Both of you are trouble makers and will not stop distorting the Truth of Scripture. You are a liar and a back-stabbing so call brother. Because again, you threw my peace right at my face.
---Mark_V. on 12/18/10


Well again markv, it was you who called what I SAID filth.

In fact you said I was teaching FILTH, and by that saying the Gospel is Filth.

BUT, our Gospel of whosoever will and free will is in fact FILTH to you.

You have made that perfectly clear to all of us. And no such word FILTH was ever stated here on line except it FIRST came from your mouth!
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


James ... I don't find you very convincing.

For several posts you continued to insist that Kathr was doubting whether Jesus is alive ... even after it had been pointed out to you that the word "preaching" (which you omitted to quote) made all the difference.

Maybe you did not mean to misrepresent her, but as soon as the correct reading of the whole of what she said was clear, you should have withdrawn and apologised
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/18/10


JamesL Alan didn't ask you for your last post to me , he asked you a question.

WHY did you OMIT my words Preaching in your reply? It's a simple question. Without that word, the whole context is altered. you do know that?

When I reply to someone post I actually copy and paste what THEY SAID first, so I can't be accused of manipulatng or falsly representing someones statement. It works!

Now ther are those who will only copy and paste part, for the purpose of misrepreseting.

These same people only quote God too in part to misrepresent.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10


Mark V I referred to you lying about Kathr and I saying the Gospel was filthy

You now respond: "You show me the post where I said that. I guarantee you will not find it"

Well, I did find it, on 12/12, you wrote "Alan, ... don't call the Gospel filthy. ... Alan I have never heard anyone calling the gospel filthy, only Kathr and you agree with her"

You know Kathr did not say the Gospel was filthy, yet you accused her of it, and added me in.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/18/10


JamesL, I have never intentionally taken anyones words out of context for melicious intent . AND when others see your and markv's intentional intent, we know there is a problem.

you also need to take your own advise...ASK FIRST what someone meant before making false assumptions.

If we have all been here for many many months, years, noone here has ever heard me say I believe Jesus is dead.

Therefore JamesL it would be to your advantage to get to know what someone believes before assuming.

I though only Adults were here on line. and that we can't in 125 words lay down our foundational beliefs every single post!

Yes, children we need to do that with. Are you an adult JamesL or a child?
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10


Shop For Church Bulletins & Supplies


Alan,
the reason I left out the word "preaching" is because the conjunction "if" denotes uncertainty of, or opposition to, the condition it is connected with.

With the structure of her sentence being "If Jesus were alive today preaching", the word "preaching" seemed more fitting as a parenthetical add-on to the condition of being alive because of the placement of the word "today". In other words, the sentence would still read the same without the word "preaching"
---James_L on 12/18/10


James ... Why did you omit the word preaching when you quoted Kathr?

Since that word made a heap of difference to what she said, ... ?

Oh you are so clever.
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/18/10


\\JamesL shame on you....LOVE does not LOOK FOR things not there to bash someone. HATE does that. Have you not APPLIED 1st Cor 13???\\
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10

Kathr,
I am positive that you remember a recent thread where I went to bat for you in saying "first, read Kathr's last post, second, read Kathr's post again, third, ..." Remember that??

I am not trolling through these threads looking for an opportunity to ambush someone. I go to bat for the truth, whether it comes from you or anyone else.

But I don't like it when you suppose the implications of someone's comments, then parade around accusing them of purporting heresy. If you need clarification, why not ask instead of assuming and accusing?
---James_L on 12/18/10


Kath, how about shame on you, on all the comments you have made against other people with no proof, where is your love for others?
---Bob on 12/18/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


\\You then used that imcomplete quotation to say that Kathr doubted that Jesus is alive.

A pretty "blatant misrepresentation"\\
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/18/10

Nice try, Alan, but not so. She is the one who used the word alive, so she misrepresented herself if her words weren't accurate. I did not add any words to hers, as you just did to mine. I did not go posting in several threads that Kathr said Jesus is dead. That's is her style, not mine. I said in only that thread that she SEEMS uncertain, and was content to leave it at that. In English, there are definite and indefinite terms, and SEEMS is an indefinite.

I would expect my own words to be questioned if I implied uncertainty about Jesus being alive.
---James_L on 12/18/10


Alan,
I think you mistook my post as being written be leej. His name appeared at the top of that post because I was addressing a comment she had written to leej.

Kathr,
I am fully aware that there are more than two views represented here. I narrow my discussions with you to those camps because you attempt a mediating position between those two. When I posted three options concerning faith/works, the entire post for you alone. I was not categorizing all the various views, for I know you are not RCC, Orthodox, et al.

You seem to side with Arminians on election and faith, but Calvinists on works and perseverance. That's not a mediating position, it merely swings the pendulum from our will to God's sovereignty and visa versa
---James_L on 12/17/10


James .. you did misquote Kathr, by leaving out a vital word.

She said "If Jesus were alive today preaching, ..."

But you quoted her as saying "If Jesus were alive today ... "

You then used that imcomplete quotation to say that Kathr doubted that Jesus is alive.

A pretty "blatant misrepresentation"
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/18/10


Alan, you said again something I never said when you said,

"Leej ... A supreme example of Mark's honest way of presenting his case is his recent lying accusations that Kathr and I both say the Gospel is filthy."

You show me the post where I said that. I guarantee you will not find it. You like to make things up. And when someone answers you, you twist everything around and start crying how someone said something bad about you. Then you demand an apology. You don't understand the Scriptures so you answer with your opinions only. James L, stated it perfect,
"Next, you don't initiate a debate with personal insults, mockery, unfounded accusations or blatant misrepresentations of what others say."
---Mark_V. on 12/18/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


I hardly care if you believe one way or the other, I only believe what the Scripture tells us.
---leej on 12/17/10


LEEJ, that is exactly what I have been saying all along.

As for James L, now you've joined the ranks of those who twist people's words. Alan is correct..IF JESUS were alive on earth HERE TODAY preaching or running for office.

However, it does seem teh same people who twist what you're saying ALSO twist what God is saying to us.

JamesL shame on you....learn to READ the WHOLE comment. LOVE does not LOOK FOR things not there to bash someone. HATE does that. Have you not APPLIED 1st Cor 13???

You know for a fact I BELIEVE Jesus is alive forevermore!

And YOU KNEW what I meant!
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10


Leej ... I most wholeheartedly apologise
It was not you who introduced the word "drivel" but James.
In fact the whole of my post should have been addressed to him

I got mixed up because I was reading both your posts at the time.

I am so sorry

Looking at the issue which is being discussed so vigourously here, I can see very little difference between the two "sides"
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/17/10


Kathryn //I can't HEAR calvin because of what he was.

I still would like to hear from you exactly what teaching as held by Calvin that you find so much disagreement with.

Whether Calvin had Servetus put to death is something still being debated by historians as there is some indication Calvin did not approve of his execution but did nothing to stop it. It was the Geneva council that ruled on that issue.

Servetus had already been condemned to die by Roman Catholic authorities even before he came to Geneva.
---leej on 12/17/10


alan8566_of_uk//I think you are probably the first here who has used the word "drivel" about what someone has said

Never once used the word on any post about anyone or anything. That is too easy to verify from viewing all the past posts.

In any case, Lordship Salvation simply is just another one of those things that has fallen by the wayside, not being taught by most pastors today.

The things being promoted in some main line churches today, will come and go just like Lordship Salvation.

Kathryn goes to a church where they are currently bashing Calvinism, but like many other things, what they say is inaccurate and irrelevant. They discourage any independent study on these subjects.
---leej on 12/17/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


LEEJ, one cannot teach something and LIVE in opposition to scripture. I can't HEAR calvin because of what he was.

and JamesL, i stated long ago that there are not JUST two groups here, calvin vs arminian. There are many who believe in one's etenal security, that the CHURCH is teh Elect in this age of GRACE, for the purpose of showing forth FRUIT bringing Glory to God.

Calvin did not in his life show forth any fruit bringing glory to God. MURDER is not fruit.

The reason you think I'm schitz is our of your own lack of knowledge that you believe there are only two groups. C vs A! WRONG!
---kathr4453 on 12/17/10


Leej ... A supreme example of Mark's honest way of presenting his case is his recent lying accuations that Kathr and I both say the Gospel is filthy.

He has on many occasions misrepresented what I have said, and stated that I want the glory for my salvation.

Yes, Mark is probably the most skilled person here at "unfounded accusations or blatant misrepresentations of what others say"

And of course on another blog, you have misquoted Kathr.

& I think you are probably the first here who has used the word "drivel" about what someone has said
---alan8566_of_uk on 12/17/10


MarkV, I believe you're right about Kathr's style not being for the glory of God.

I know for certain that you and I don't disagree on some issues, but I always appreciate two thiings.

When you have an opposing view, you bring an argument with scripture. That makes me study. Iron sharpens iron.

Next, you don't initiate a debate with personal insults, mockery, unfounded accusations or blatant misrepresentations of what others say.

I really don't like using the tone I have with her, but I get fed up with the same old drivel
---James_L on 12/17/10


James L, you said what I have thought for a long time about Kathr when you said,

You vehemently oppose others with a Calvinist view, yet you espouse a view of faith/works and endurance/perseverance so similar to them that I wonder if you are schizophrenic."

That is what I said to her last year, and to this day she has not stopped complaining. The same accusations about Calvin with no Scripture, or book to show where she got what she says, the same talk, and when she answers she mixes both Calvin and Arminian views together. Then when she ask a question, it is not to find out something but to try to pick on what you said. To what purpose? Not for the glory of God.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


"Lordship salvation" is not a term, but two separate terms: "Lordship" is having the rank, position, skill or relationship of the Lord. And "salvation" is the condition of being saved from wrath, saved from sin, and saved for heaven.
---Eloy on 12/16/10


kathr4453 I see much fruit in those that believe in the truth of Scripture. And all Calvin believed has the full backing of scripture.

Usually those who would discredit Calvin, do so bec they cannot stand the fact scripture says God is a sovereign God.

That God is one who determines who will, and who will not be saved, is one of the clearest teachings of scripture.

What God predestines or ordains for His glory is clearly stated in Romans 9.

Even evil has come into existence bec it was God's good pleasure to permit it, in order that by means of it his good purpose might be accomplish (Isaiah 45:7).

No one says we have to like it even if that is what scripture teaches
---leej on 12/16/10


\\leej, those who don't like calvin don't because there is no evdence of FRUIT whatsoever. You will know them by their fruit.\\
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10

Kathr:
You make a good habit of dodging opposing questions, what would the fruit inspectors think of you? You need to read the Sermon on the Mount. When Jesus said "you will know them by their fruits" it wasn't Christians, but FALSE PROPHETS. He had just said on the outside (behavior) they look just like sheep. So you are DEAD WRONG to apply "fruit" as behavior. The fruit is TEACHINGS. He also said out of the abundance of the heart a man speaks (or teaches) and by our WORDS we will be justified or condemned (Matt 12:33-37) Study before you spout nonsense, Kathr
---James_L on 12/16/10


\\DO NOT FOLLOW MEN PERIOD!!
Do not put your faith in the wisdom of men but in the Power of God!\\
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10

Kathr, your misunderstanding of the Sermon on the Mount surely did not come from yourself, as that is one of the most misapplied scriptures of the New Testament. Virtually all pastors and teachers apply that as if Jesus were speaking of knowing believers by some outward criteria, and they are wrong before you are wrong.

What I'm saying is you have indeed chosen the wisdom of men over the power of God, then condemn someone else for supposedly doing what you do. You are a pot calling the kettle black. That makes you a hypocrite. What a joke. Grow up.
---James_L on 12/16/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


kathryn //leej stop forcing calvin down everyone throat.

True or false? Did everything Calvin believed in have the full backing of Scripture?

If you answered True, you got the right answer.

What interpretation of Scripture that Calvin held, do you have a difference with? Please refer to what he beleived and the scripture he used for that belief.
---leej on 12/16/10


Calvanist take one verse out of the bible and build a whole cult. We are all predestination before the foundation of the world. Read John 3:16.
---shira3877 on 12/16/10


leej, those who don't like calvin don't because there is no evdence of FRUIT whatsoever.

You will know them by their fruit. You see, I don't know calvin, and never will.

Calvin MURDERED people who disagreed with him.

Calvin was the complete OPPOSITE of everything Christ said we are to be.

Did he DEMAND his way or the highway? That's not christianity leej, that is a cult...much like the way Jim Jones had abusive power over those who took their lived as they were BRAINWASHED .

DO NOT FOLLOW MEN PERIOD!!
Do not put your faith in the wisdom of men but in the Power of God!

leej stop forcing calvin down everyone throat. Calvin did not die/lay down his life for anyone..he took lives...rotten apple!
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10


James_L -Perhaps the conflict Kathryn is having is bec everything Calvin believed in has the full backing of Scripture.

Those that damn Calvinism simply do not like the idea that God is sovereign that He can control everything He created and may do whatever He wishes, even in such things as selecting Jacob over Esau and hardening Pharaohs heart to do what He wished.

The view that we are the clay and He is the Potter (Romans 9), and His attitude that He 'will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and will have compassion on whom He will have compassion' (v.15) simply does not fit into our value system of what we deem as fair.

She needs to study TULIP with all its scriptural backing to really gain an understanding.
---leej on 12/16/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Refinancing


Seriously, I'm not sure what you're getting at. You ask how can I claim an inheritance? What's the basis for that left filed tangent? Have you got a crystal ball that you look in?

You vehemently oppose others with a Calvinist view, yet you espouse a view of faith/works and endurance/perseverance so similar to them that I wonder if you are schizophrenic.

Are you justified by
1) faith and works
2) faith that inevitably leads to works
3) faith that results in a new sinless nature plus an old sinful nature with our mind caught in a struggle between the two natures

If you said 1, you are an arminian. If you said 2, you are a Calvinist. If you said 3, you are correct
---James_L on 12/16/10


\James_L do you know what bear means? Ans: something difficult to experience or endure.

We were saved to BEAR FRUIT, bring forth fruit. Not just have an insurance policy, or Justification.

Our sanctification is what GOD PURPOSED in us to SHOW FORTH HIS GLORY IN US...Ephesians.

How can you claim an inheritance? Have you not heard Paul say:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10


James_L //Believers have two natures, and sanctification is our co-operation with the Holy Spirit in being conformed to the image of Christ.

Very good.


---leej on 12/14/10

Leej, so you too believe we have two natures?

Very Good!
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10


leej \\Thus salvation is strictly a gracious act of God and does not depend upon any merit that we may have.\\

Not only does it not depend on any merit of ours, it doesn't depend on our will, a decision, choice, sincerity, or anything else that might be conjured up by us. (John 1:13, 6:44-45)

The Holy Spirit convicts us of the reality of our sin, then convinces us of the sufficiency of Jesus' substitutionary sacrifice. That is repentance and faith in a nutshell. All God, every time. That is, unless Jesus is a liar. I think He is the way, TRUTH and life
---James_L on 12/15/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Franchises


James_L //Believers have two natures, and sanctification is our co-operation with the Holy Spirit in being conformed to the image of Christ.

Very good.

All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 2 Cor. 5:18

Thus salvation is strictly a gracious act of God and does not depend upon any merit that we may have.
---leej on 12/14/10


2Cor 5:17 doesn't say anything about salvation causing a changed life (whatever that's supposed to mean). What it does say is that being in Christ (justified) results in a new nature. That doesn't mean an inevitable change in behavior. If it were inevitable that our behavior changes, then why are we commanded to do the things which God wants? The very command denotes the possibility that we will not obey. We become partakers of the divine nature in our spirit (2Peter 1:4). But Romans 7:14-25 addresses our "life" struggle between our divine, sinless nature, and our natural, sinful nature. Believers have two natures, and sanctification is our co-operation with the Holy Spirit in being conformed to the image of Christ
---James_L on 12/14/10


Kathr is right when she said,
"A changed life( sanctification) is the result of salvation, not a requirement for salvation. Faith results in change 2 Co5:17." After being brought to life is because of god, v. 18 tells us how those things happen,
"Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation.}
All the aspects related to someone's conversion and newly transformed life in Christ are accomplished by a sovereign Holy God. Sinners on their own cannot decide to participate in these new realities (Rom. 5:10, 1 Cor. 8:6,11:12, Eph. 2:1).
---Mark_V. on 12/14/10


A changed life( sanctification) is the result of salvation, not a requirement for salvation. Faith results in change 2 Co5:17. A person saved from sin, should not desire to remain in a life of sin (Romans 6:2). Submitting to the Lordship of Jesus Christ is an issue of spiritual growth, not salvation, attained BY FAITH , not works. ( 2 Peter 1.)
Salvation is simply recognizing youre a sinner, in need of Jesus Christ for salvation, and placing your trust in Him John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9.
Once saved, we grow in Grace through yielding , surrendering to Him( HIM meaning LORD) Romans 6-8, James 4:7, Romans 12:1-2.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Lead Generation


Salvation comes through rightousness to those who believe in chrrist. Read Romans chapter 10. You must read it more then once to get the full meaning and understanding.
---Bee on 12/14/10


The Lordship Salvation controversy is a theological dispute of soteriology within Protestantism, mostly limited to adherents of Evangelicalism and Christian fundamentalism in North America during the 1980's & 90's.

---leej on 12/13/10

leej, I do find it interesting that I found John MacArthur a devout Calvinist who teaches this and has written a book on Lordship Salvation.
---Laura on 12/14/10


Kathr: part 1
You are correct that we can't carry our cross and the world, too. Consider 2 passages:
If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, even their own life, such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Wont you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, saying, This person began to build and wasnt able to finish. (Luke 14:26-30)
---James_L on 12/13/10


Kathr: part 3

You've displayed exactly what I wrote. Why not say we can't go to heaven unless we hate our family? That's in the same passage about carrying our cross, but that's never preached by the "fruit inspectors". Being a disciple is not the same as being a believer.

Jesus said, "My yoke is easy and My burden is light." (Matt 11:30).

But discipleship is not easy. He also said, "In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples." (Luke 14:33)

Was Jesus tricking people, or is there a distinction?
---James_L on 12/13/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Mortgages


//Good to know another one notice this silly reasoning. I am playing by Mima's rules. //

Gotcha.

Nevertheless, If God can change His Mind at anytime to make any exception, then that makes Him a god of Arbitrariness not a God of Love.
---aka on 12/14/10


mima, I believe teh term Lordship Salvation came out of those who could see the decline and apostacy of christianity. Modernism, etc. today we have the Emergent churches, the dummied down Gospel. This didn't just happen in the year 2000.

I believe it came from men who wanted to contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints.

Maybe the term should really say, Lordship Sanctification.

I see the parable of teh 4 soils clearly say, if you love this world, are offended by suffering and persecution, and walk away, Jesus was never really Lord in your life to begin with. NO FRUIT to prove He ever was.

---kathr4453 on 12/14/10


aka,

Good to know another one notice this silly reasoning. I am playing by Mima's rules. He had often said a doctrine or idea is false because the word or phrase is not in the Bible. I am just turning the table around.

"Jesus promised that the thief on the cross.......the thief did not have time to do these things, yet he was saved. "

This is a exception, not the rule. This only proves that God can save whosoever he pleases, and while we are bound by his Holy Mysteries (i.e., Holy Baptism and the Divine Eucharist), He is not bound by them.

However, this example does not make void others Scriptures that deal with believing and obeying the Gospel as part of the Salvation plan.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/13/10


The Lordship Salvation controversy is a theological dispute of soteriology within Protestantism, mostly limited to adherents of Evangelicalism and Christian fundamentalism in North America during the 1980's & 90's.

In Evangelical parlance, this distinction is expressed as accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour on one hand, and as "Lord" on the other.

"Lordship salvation" is thus the belief the possibility of salvation depends on two separate conditions, the acceptance of Jesus Christ not only as Saviour, but also submission and obedience to Jesus Christ as Lord.
---leej on 12/13/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Personal Loans


I am still trying to find the word "Christmation".

---aka on 12/12/10
aka did I do that? I know I'm a horrible speller.,)

JamesL, I would like to ask you something though. Doesn't pick up your cross and follow me indicate somewhat you can't carry your cross, and all your worldly goods, reputation, etc. at the same time?

When I see Paul's life played out in scripture before us, I see it did cost him everything, even his head!
---kathr4453 on 12/13/10


For a presentation of "Lordship Salvation" read John MacArthur's book "The Gospel According to Jesus"

As Pharisee said, it puts the cart before the horse. It teaches the paradox that salvation is free yet costs you everything. It comes from an ignorance of (or rejection of) those scriptures in the gospels which say some who believed in Jesus didn't follow Him, and some who followed Him didn't believe. LS confuses believer and disciple, justification and sanctification, the White Throne judgment and the Judgment Seat of Christ.

It fails to recognize that Jesus always forgave (or healed) on the basis of faith BEFORE He cammanded "go and sin no more"
---James_L on 12/12/10


//Did you know that the phrase "Lordship Salvation" is NEVER used in the Holy Bible?//

the word "incarnation" was never used in the Holy Bible, but we know that the concept is there. I am still trying to find the word "Christmation".

Also, when Jesus promised that the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise, none of those Scriptures were written yet. In addition, the thief did not have time to do these things, yet he was saved.

Do you believe this?

The plan of salvation IS Jesus Christ and was never intended as a checklist.
---aka on 12/12/10


"lordship salvation" sounds like a re-packaging of what it already says in the Bible.

Now, it has a price on it...the publisher's or speaker's price.
---aka on 12/11/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Auto Insurance


Mima,

Did you know that the phrase "Lordship Salvation" is NEVER used in the Holy Bible?

I can't defined it because I never heard such a thing in Scriptures or the writings of the Fathers. However, I do know the salvation plan according to Scriptures.

One hear the Gospel (Rom 10:17), believe the Gospel (Acts 2:38a), repent (ibid, Acts 16:31), obey the Gospel (James 1:22), receive Water Baptism (ibid, Mark 16:16, etc), receive Christmation ("laying on the hands"), and strive to reach theosis, by the Grace of Jesus Christ with the participation of the Mysteries (chiefly in the Body and Blood of Christ). No "lordship salvation" (whatever that means).

Do you believe this?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 12/11/10


Your right Paul I guess I was projecting my meekness and modesty upon all...(crackin myself up) The Spirit does what we can't that's for sure, it convicts of sin, and empowers the believer, but as Paul said God's not making anyone to stop sinning altogether apart from their will.

For those that don't know Lordship salvation is an actual term for a false teaching. While it's a popular saying to make Jesus Lord of your life, and a good one, it's been misused to say that it's a requirement for salvation.
---Pharisee on 12/11/10


"Lordship salvation", another deception from the father of lies that teaches salvation is by works - contrary to Christ's teachings of grace.
---christan on 12/11/10


The Waldenses wrote...

1. Onely the holy Scripture is to be beleued in matters pertayning to saluation: and no mans writing, or man besides.

2. All things to be contayned in holy Scripture necessary to saluation: and nothing to be admitted in religion, but what onely is commaunded in the word of God.

The Waldenses were serious Protestants, and earnestly contended for the maintenance of the Christian faith. They were not Baptists.

A proof of this, Iohn Huss and Hierome of Prage were Protestant Reformers.
---Kev on 12/12/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Holidays


"Lordship Salvation" is simply when one is Born Again and regards YAHUSHUA (JESUS) as not only his/her Saviour, but, also as their Lord. And, the truth IS is that if YAHUSHUA is only one's Saviour, but, not also one's Lord, then they will not, and cannot, enter into Heaven.
---Gordon on 12/10/10


Pharisee

I agree for the most part, but the spirit dosent do the rest.

Its up to us to heed the Spirits lead, that we may know how to conduct our vessel as a vessel unto honor. God Bless, Paul
---paul on 12/11/10


I agree Leslie. But we also need to be careful mima about labeling salvation.

Jesus Christ IS LORD. No one can be saved and not believe He is.

One day those who are not saved will bend their knee and confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of the Father.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/10


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.