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Parable Of The Sower

We are told all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Why do some claim they were good ground? Is that a contradiction of scripture?

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 ---kathr4453 on 12/12/10
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Ginger, I presented 4 clear verses (and there are many more) that speaks against your declaration, and all you can say is "you pulled them out of their context, they are false statements".

You just say "whosoever will..." implies that anyone outside the covenant of grace and election can choose to be saved and yet Jesus declared "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Was Christ out of context when He declared those words?

So, "whosoever will" merely points to those whom God has chosen and given to Christ before the foundations of the world, including the thief on the cross. That's what it means in salvation by grace.
---christan on 12/26/10


Kathr, I do not know why you have to dig deeper for anything in your sons case. He was told to do something and he disobeyed. If he had a learning disability and because of that you found out the is great. Normally through sin we find out a lot of things. Second you never mentioned he had a disability and only gave the story to make it mean something you wanted to point out. If you believe that his disobedience let you to know something then you believe in predestination, for it was predestined for him to disobey and God turned it for good so that you could find out. One thing let to another. Which is what I believe.
---Mark_V. on 12/27/10


aka, I rejoice you have a personal relationship with Jesus. One thing we all need to remember is we are all at different stages of growth.


MarkV, yes, the teacher saw it as disobedience, but I SEARCHED out, knowing my son, and went further and asked WHY? That's the kind of LOVE God has for us as well. It does appear you would not have done that but just condemned.

That's the difference between you and I.

You condemn, I dig deeper, unconditionally, to try to remedy. Had I not dug deeper, and just condemned right then, I may never have learned my child had a learning disability!
---kathr4453 on 12/26/10


MarkV, the parable of the sower says they do hear and believe the salvation message. BUT the 1st 3 are not sealed with the HS. This tells me that many believe but then so do the devils, don't they. Not all are sealed.
The salvation message is not a mystery. It was revealed by Christ to all men.
Scripture says it.
The Bible says that ALL mankind has been told about Christ and the salvation that he offers to all of us so they are without excuse.
You have also taken verses out of their context and are following a false doctrine.Christ came to save all men. He says it himself. I prefer to believe him over your false doctrine all day long.
---ginger on 12/26/10


kathr 2/3

after i get home and put my kids to bed (by myself after showing them 'purple roses'), i have a small window to read what others say. some people seem to have all day and night to post. fortunately, it is not like that for me.

there are constant arguments between a few bloggers here which makes it nearly impossible to say anything and carry on a good conversation. it is usually filled with many posts from a few people complete with boldings and other forms of emphasis. in addition, the blogs have railing words and sarcasm against another and twisted quotes and accusations of not having a genuine relationship with Jesus....
---aka on 12/25/10




Kathr, what does the story of your son have to do with anything we are talking about? Not a thing. What it does show is that your child was disobedient for not doing what he was told to do by the teacher. It showed his nature to sin.

Ginger, in answer to your question about hearing and seeing and perceiving, Only those who are spiritually alive to God can hear and see and perceive what is spiritual, the things of God. If you had read Shawn T's answer you would know. Everyone can see with their own eyes, and ears, but not spiritual matters since they are separated from God. They are spiritually dead to the things of God.
---Mark_V. on 12/26/10


Ginger, when someone is Born Again and then hear the 1001 gospels RE:
Prosperity Gospel being preached, saying "OH no, you don't have to suffer, God wants you rich and happy. If yor suffering you must be sinning"!

or "There must be something wrong with your faith if you aren't healed"..

or "You can't be saved unless you speak in tongues",

or "your not really saved unless God saves you first giving you the Holy Spirit Birth first to be saved so you can repent.....bla bla bla"

Do you know what happens inside a true believer?

They hear the Voice of the LORD say, "what does my word say". "Follow me..not them"
---kathr4453 on 12/26/10


kathr, 1/2

aka, you too deny the cross!
---kathr4453 on 12/25/10

i do not believe in man's predestination, i believe in a plan of Salvation (Jesus) did not become to fruition because of man, but because He already existed. If a man chooses Jesus in His own free will, the he becomes "predestined".

i believe God ingeniously turned man's tree of death to the tree of life after Jesus' resurrection, so that man had a way back to the Father. There is no other way back but by the Son.

Nothing Holy was made in reaction to man because it was already there. Do you think Abraham's faith was his own?

i do believe that man could not be in God's presence until the resurrection, but...
---aka on 12/25/10


Shawn, brother, I am not disputing you or Kath view of the parable. What you both say are true.
My argument has always been with the one's here who keep saying that they can't hear it unless the HS is already in them.
This is not true according to scripture.
In fact, the parable says that they do hear, doesn't it? The point is, they heard and believed.
2 people on here believe a man must have the HS inside them before they can even hear the simple things of God such as salvation.
Youknow well brother that that is not true.
I believe the 1st 3 also have something to do with the planting and watering that Paul talks about. If people who receive the word don't get this, they can turn out like the 1st 3 and not the 4th.
---ginger on 12/25/10


ala, that is the mis-conception with falsse doctrine.
Galatians clearly teach the Spirit we live today is in this..I am Crucified with Christ...

Romans 6-8 clearly teach the Spirit of the LIFE of Christ in you, vs teh LAW in the past.

No one was indwelt by the RISEN CHRIST in the OT. If that were so, then there would be no need for Calvary or the NEW COVENANT promising the Spirit.

You all are climbing over some other way.
---kathr4453 on 12/25/10




20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

NO ONE WAS MADE free from SIN until Christ's death and resurrection. It took His death and resurection to break the Power of sin.

aka, you too deny the cross!
---kathr4453 on 12/25/10


-- Ginger :

Sister, Amen to the Truth that God through putting His son Christ in the world has physically made the call of Glory unto all men, while only those who Spiritually Hear the Word receive its Grace to obtain the fruits of its Salvation... which is the difference between the first three grounds & the Good Ground in the Parable of the Sower.

The first three grounds are those who only physically hear/receive the Word... and that not what our Lord is talking about when He speaks of having Ears to Hear. It's Spiritually Seeing & Hearing the Word which enables us to Understand it & receive His seed into Good Ground, bringing forth spiritual fruit as God's Children, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold !!!
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/25/10


MarkV, the natural mind cannot understand spiritual things. You have stated here over and over to everyine...that we all mis-apply scripture...

MarkV, the problem is YOU!!!

You have been taught by man, and are not growing in the grace and Knowledge of Him, who takes us deeper and deeper into truth.

It's clear you do not know the length, depth height and width of anything not written in the institutes of Calvin.
---kathr4453 on 12/25/10


Markv, A 5 year old was asked by his teacher to color a rose purple. He refused and colored it Red. The parent was called to the school.

The mother asked, Why didn't you do what the teacher asked? The child said..there is no such thing as a purple rose, and then started reciting the poem..Roses are RED. He said there is no such thing as a purple rose.
The child wasn't being disobedient, but was being true to his conviction.

The mother then had to TAKE the Child to a place where roses of all colors were planted. They got out of the car, and walked around and touched each color.

This story is true, the child was my son.

MarkV, You too have to be TAKEN by Christ Himsels to places so He can show you deeper things.
---kathr4453 on 12/25/10


I believe the parable of the sower is actually about how we hear and accept the seed the sower is sowing. Some hear it and it only lies on the top of our consciences, and is blown away. Some accept it and it lies among the weeds and tares of our lives, and is crowded out. Only those who have received the seed on good, plowed ground and it is covered by His Spirit, and watered by the Word, are good ground.
---Doris on 12/25/10


//Christ is AD, not BC. No one was IN HIM until until He rose from the dead.//

Jesus Christ the Alpha and Omega far superseding any our divisions of time (and doctrines of man).

The plan of Salvation (Jesus) existed since the beginning. throughout the OT up to the dispatch of the HS, God revealed His plan in types and shadows to Jews and Gentiles (directly and indirectly, respectively).

Fruits of the Spirit has existed since the Alpha and will continue into the Omega.
---aka on 12/25/10


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Amen, Kath, In Christ!
Certain people completely miss that.
They pull single scriptures out of their context causing them to not rightly divide God's word.
God did not mean for it to be like that. He meant for us to read the whole thing and understand that only those who get into Christ will be saved.
Thay also ignore the fact that God has made the call to ALL men...2000 years ago through his son, Jesus.
The ones who don't listen are the ones who have shut God out and refuse his witness..the Holy Ghost.
---ginger on 12/25/10


Ephesians 3:16-18 16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,

17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height,

Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.


MarkV, Christ is AD, not BC. No one was IN HIM until until He rose from the dead.
---kathr4453 on 12/25/10


Kathr, you string opinions together with no Scripture, you say,
"Those who were before Calvary OT saints as well, went to Paradise, Araham's Bosom. None of them bore fruit, yet are saved today." When you speak you make up everything, you say.
You give no Scripture. You suggest that none of the O.T. saints didn't bear any fruit. You suggest people like Abraham and many others who worked for God by faith didn't do anything for God. You make a lie trying to added that it takes for them to have Christ in order to bear good fruit. This people believed in the coming Christ. Just as you believe in the Christ that already came. God spoke to them in the O.T. and Jesus spoke to us when He came and who is Himself God.
---Mark_V. on 12/25/10


I would say, Kathryn, that we all have started out "short of the glory of God", and so no one has had good soil unless God has first changed that person to have good soil . . . like James says > "receive with meekness the engrafted word which is able to save your souls." (in James 1:21) We need how God has corrected us and changed us to become able to receive His word with meekness, instead of an arguing or self-justifying spirit, or being self-glorifying like I have done.

To believe, then, means God's way, with meekness and with trusting Jesus and obeying Him.
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/25/10


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Yes aka, even the man next to Christ knew Christ had no sin, but he acknowledged he himself had sin.

But I have no idea what that has to do with fruit.

Are you saying Jesus lied, when He said today you will be with me in paradise?

When I brought up the man who died next to Christ was saved by faith, Faith in knowing and acknowledging who Christ was, and knowing he was a sinner needing a savior said...REMEMBER me when You come into YOUR Kingdom...you seemed to object.

Why?
---kathr4453 on 12/25/10


sorry, my paste got ahead of my cut:

kathr, it is very common for bloggers to debate in vicious circles because they will not address one point before bringing up three more. what exactly did you mean by:


Luke 23:41

And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Can be cross referenced to John 8:46 about Christ.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Has nothing to do with the man next to Christ.
---aka on 12/24/10


lease explain the following if what you say above is true//
Those scripture are true in their context of all of God's word.
BUT since you pulled them out of their context, they are false statements. You made them false by trying to apply them to your false doctrine.
You forget again...."Whosoever will"..Christan, take a good long look at the thief on the cross. He was not chosen by God before he was born.
He was preached to by Christ- The Word- and he chose to believe, and repented of his sins. The HS had not even been given yet and this man became saved!
That is how those scripture you posted can be true...IN CHRIST is the key.

But, You are blind and refuse to listen, Christan.
---ginger on 12/24/10


Luke 23:41

And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Can be cross referenced to kathr, it is very common for bloggers to debate in vicious cirlces because they will not address one point before bringing up three more. what exactly did you mean by

//John 8:46 about Christ.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Has nothing to do with the man next to Christ.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10
---aka on 12/24/10


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"But God did not choose who would be in his Body. God does not make the choice for us." Ginger

Please explain the following if what you say above is true:

- "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" Ephesians 1:4

- "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth." Romans 9:11

- "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44
---christan on 12/24/10


aka, I'm not following your thoughts. The man who died with Christ, acknowledged he was a sinner who deserved death. He KNEW who Jesus was. Most probably heard Him preach.

Those who were before Calvary OT saints as well, went to Paradise, Araham's Bosom. None of them bore fruit, yet are saved today.

Fruit is born throuhg being crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him a New Creature. ONLY the NEW creature can bear fruit...The fruit of the RISEN CHRIST working through us.

Please know the difference.
---kathr4453 on 12/24/10


verse 41 beginning with "And" is a continuation of v. 40, which starts with a ... well, you read it...Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

a direct quote from one of the thieves //Has nothing to do with the man next to Christ.// ---kathr4453 on 12/23/10

Double Wow!
---aka on 12/24/10


Are you suggesting that only the head (who's Christ Jesus) was foreordained and not His Body (His people)? That God does not know who who's going to be in the Body of Christ?
//
Christan, of course God KNOWS who will be in his body.
But God did not choose who would be in his Body.
God does not make the choice for us.
That is what Kath is saying and she is most certainly right.
Remember whosoever will. That is also what scripture clearly says.
It does not say who ever God chooses.
That would not be fair judgement.
Only in Christ.
---ginger on 12/24/10


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Ginger, that is a question I have asked the Lord for over 30 years. I keep getting the same answer. And God has proved it over and over. Those who are SONS God chastens because they are sons. Now there are what is called Illigitimate sons...and they go without chastening. Taken with 1st Peter 4 and James 1, we do not control our testing, which results in maturity...God tests us to show us who is real and not.

The real thing do go on to maturity. Faith without works IS DEAD FAITH.

Out faith is in the Person of Jesus Christ..He's the root.

Nothing can grow without ROOT!
---kathr4453 on 12/24/10



But what about the ones who believe but are taken over by the cares of the world? Does that mean they never believed in the first place?
No, it does not. It means they were not strong enough. They fell not because they didn't have faith but because they didn't grow in the word. They allowed the physical things to get to them. But it never states they never believed, Kath. That is a false statement.

MarkV, I believe in all of what God says not just bits and pieces. That is what everyone here puts down, Thay don't look at the parts to the whole.
---ginger on 12/23/10


"Was God's WHOLE PLAN of salvation predestined and foreordained...You bet!" kathr

You finally agree in the doctrine of predestination? Or are you merely implying the "plan of salvation" only and not the people who are predestined and foreordained for salvation? Think before you answer.

Are you suggesting that only the head (who's Christ Jesus) was foreordained and not His Body (His people)? That God does not know who who's going to be in the Body of Christ?

This is a bad analogy, but it's like saying the architect who designs a building and he does not know how many floors and washrooms he will be including in the final plan.
---christan on 12/23/10


Luke 23:41

And we indeed justly, for we [malefactors]receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man [Jesus] hath done nothing amiss...

Has nothing to do with the man next to Christ.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10

Wow!
---aka on 12/23/10


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Those who fall away like the first three soils:
Hebrews 6:8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing, whose end is to be burned.

The True believer....what are the BETTER THINGS that accompany salvation?

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Here in is the comparison...Ginger many make a false profession..and were never saved to begin with.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10


Luke 23:41

And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Can be cross referenced to John 8:46 about Christ.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Has nothing to do with the man next to Christ.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10


Kathr, you are arguing two points against each other just to disagree with Christian's answer. You believe, as I have heard you many times in the assurance of the saints. Eternal security. Ginger doesn't. The passage in Heb. 4 is talking about the assurance of the saints. Christ died for each of us saints once and for all time. That's why the passage says, "It is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, (Christ) and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God" to fall away." It is not possible. No one can be saved twice or three times.
---Mark_V. on 12/23/10


Kath, I am not talking about works salvation and I never have. The work comes from producing fruit. The fruits come from growing in Christ.
Growing in Christ comes from full submission.
You cannot grow in Christ without being submissive to him first.
Examples- story of the potters wheel, vine and pruning.
We cannot be shaped nor formed, or pruned by God without submission to his will.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Being unsubmissive to God can cost you your salvation.
So, the parable of the sower talks about people at different levels of salvation.
---ginger on 12/23/10


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//Now I know the man who died with Christ didn't have any time to bear fuit,//

1. Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man has done nothing amiss.

2. Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith2, meekness1, temperance:

God's plan of salvation knows no exception.
---aka on 12/22/10


Hebrews 6:4-6 declares, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, .If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

christan, the emphasis is on the conclusion of the sentence.

Being enlihgtened and tasting of the good things ahead is NOT BEING INDWELT, or born again. Just as those in the wilderness saw miracles over and over, still hardened their heart and did not receive the promise.





---kathr4453 on 12/23/10


christan, I agree with Ginger, you use every opportunity to take scripture out of context.

John 15 DOES NOT SAY:God FOR-ordained you.

JUST AS Israel was ordained, Elect, Chosen of God to first bring Christ into the world.

The chosen NOW/or elect now on earth are Christ body, the Church to bear Christ to the World.

And It says, we who are already saved are ordained to bear fruit. Our fruit bearing IS WHAT the world see, CHRIST IN YOU...as a testimony so that they might believe! This is OUR calling and purpose.

Was God's WHOLE PLAN of salvation predestined and forordained...You bet!
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10


Ginger, I believe you are talking about a works salvation. The soils have to do with FRUIT. No one is saved 30% 70% or 100%.

But when we are saved we will bear fruit..

Now I know the man who died with Christ didn't have any time to bear fuit, however he did bare his soul confessing he was a sinner...and that alone saved his soul.

But since we are here and can't claim a death bed experience, God does have a purpose for for lives.

John 17 says I in them and thou in Me that the world may KNOW that we are one.

The Church as a whole has a purpose here on earth...
---kathr4453 on 12/22/10


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Kath,I know I seem to be disagreeing with you but you know I am not. We have had this discussion before and you know my feelings on it.
Now Christan, he should not even be talking about this because he never utilizes context at all. That is why calvinism is heresy. They have taken a few scripture out of their context and created doctrine out of it not rightly dividing the word of God.
Christan, please don't bother to respond to me because I have had all I can really stomach of you for right now. It is best so as not to cause me to stumble.
Come back when you have better understanding of the scripture you try to post.
---ginger on 12/22/10


Ginger, SELF has no power to crucify self. THIS is why we have the CROSS. If that is foolishness to you Hummm...

WE are being conformed to HIS DEATH Paul tells us in Phil 3 SO THAT we can Know Him in resurrection POWER here and now.

If one could by themselves die to SELF, then God would have asked OT Saints to do that. Instead He gave the LAW to show SELF had no power at all.
---kathr4453 on 12/22/10


"Just because someone does not make it to the end does not mean that they were never saved. It means they lost faith and thus their salvation." Ginger

Scripture in Hebrews 6:4-6 declares, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Again you contradict Scripture, saying that a Christian can loose the very faith that God has given him, hence loosing salvation.
---christan on 12/22/10


Well, I know I see when I read scripture in its context. That means not 2 or 3 verses, but the entire chapter or more.
Actually, the verses and chapters re only for reference purpose so I try not to pull out scripture line by line. When scripture is studied in its entirety, you find something comepletely different than what you thougt. When applied like this, our salvation is only assured if we remain in Christ and endure to the end.
Just because someone does not make it to the end does not mean that they were never saved. It means they lost faith and thus their salvation.
By the way, moritfying the deeds of the flesh is our resoponsibility. It comes by remaining submissive to Christ as our head.
---ginger on 12/22/10


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Really amusing that some can quote John 15:16-19 and pass through the heart of the chapter like it's unworthy of mention. Being born of the Spirit is a must, period. The question is, how does one get to be born of the Spirit? The answer is in John 15:16 -

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." The key is:

1. It is God who choose who to give the Spirit to.
2. And those ordained (justified by faith) will definitely bear fruit.
3. Once born of the Spirit, you will not see the second death, it's guaranteed.
---christan on 12/22/10


This is how you KNOW:

John 15:16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17These things I command you, that ye love one another.

18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world,but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Don't be upset if the world/ or worldly people hate you..REJOICE...
---kathr4453 on 12/22/10


Ginger, Romans 8 state if we through the spirit mortify the flesh...so I believe we don't or can't crucify our flesh. It's done as we walk in the spirit.

Romans 7 state that

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

I also see in John 15, those who have no fruit He takes and burns....
---kathr4453 on 12/22/10


Continued...

The word of course abides forever but you have to abide in that word.
look at 2 Corinthains 2 verses 4-8.
Paul is talking about the person in 1 cor 5.If they do not forgive this person, Paul tells us in verse 7, he/she can be swallowed giving place to the devil causing them to backslide.
I know there are many verses that say we can't lose our salvation, this is based upon us mortifying the deeds of the flesh. We are told that we must abide in the incorruptable seed and allow it to grow and increase. If we don't do this, We become one of the seeds in the parable of the sower that allowed the enemy to overtake us. In other words losing the battle. Our dependency must be completely upon God.
---ginger on 12/22/10


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That is the point Kath, I am not just looking at a few verses, I am looking at the whole chapter in its context.
It says to me that it is actually an apostate church trying to go back and relay the foundations that Christ laid and thus recrucifying him like the chapter states.
I Don't see it as either or. I look at what God stated to Israel about back sliding.
It isnt Christ who mortifies the body, its us. It s through submission to God that we mortify the deads of the flesh.
If this is so, we can resurrect the dead flesh. Then you can either be in the boat or out at anytime. You can quench the spirit of Christ in you by not feeding it God's word daily, thus falling away. Why else does Paul call this a race if one cannot lose?
---ginger on 12/22/10


GINGER, I guess I look at more than one verse. Peter says 1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I see Born Again is Born of the Spirit. I also see that only through the Spirit can one bear fruit.

Heb 6 clearly state one cannot Crucify TO THEMSELVES( Gal 2:20 and 5:22-25) the Son of God afresh...

In other words it appears to say it only takes ONE TIME and that produces fruit, not thorns.

If one can truly lose their salvation, they cannot get saved again...OR one was never really BORN Again to begin with.
---kathr4453 on 12/22/10


The Parable of the Sower is clearly speaking to us as individuals. It's a checklist, which ground are we on? Does it send a tingling chill down our spine that we're the first three grounds and not the last? Does it then strike the fear of God in your hearts that He's not working in you to do according to His good pleasure? This was what Paul meant in Phillipians 2:12,13

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

In other words, God only works on the fourth ground and WILL NEVER work on the first three grounds.
---christan on 12/22/10


I don't mean to step on anyones toes or anything, just have a question. If Hebrews 6 means that those who tasted and went away were not of us in the first place, what then do we do with verses 1-3?
It says to move on to perfection and NOT lay the foundation again. I believe that this is what it is talking about.
How is it they were not of us in the first place but Jesus explains the parable that actually there are some who were of us but the word of God in them is choked out? They gave in, they gave up the race. They chose to feed the flesh instead of the spirit in them, choking it out.
Not to argue, just an observation.
---ginger on 12/22/10


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kath4453---When you preach the Gospel, do you always know who will believe and who won't.. Neither do I. The parable simply describes how various people respond to the Gospel. Jesus Himself explains it. He was not talking about anybody being innately good (and neither was I). I've never heard anyone here refer to "good clay", either. Is 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags..

//Look at THEIR lives, they are still worldly, do not GLORY in persecution, therefore bear no fruit.// I don't know who THEY is, but I doubt you know anyone who posts here well enough know about their lives or worldliness. As for fruit, your fruit shows in what you have to say about others.
---Donna66 on 12/22/10


Kathr,
I referenced Luke not because that was the only passage. I have thoroughly compared it with Matt and Mark

hebrews 6:4-6? Where does it say someone wasn't saved? It says they were once enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit.

Peter said when we are saved we become partakers of the divine nature (the Holy Spirit)

There is not even a mention that anyone would go to hell.

They were "close" to being accursed (6:8)
---James_L on 12/21/10


JamesL I accept your apology.

OK, now take ALL verses that refer to the 4 soils. Not just one book. Compare all toghether. Jesus even explains further.

The WORLD choked out the word
Persecution, becoming offended turned away.

Just as Heb 6 state one can be enlightened, but also say they were never saved,.They bring forth thorns and weeds. BUT WE ARE NOT those who do..

They started with us, but left BECAUSE they never were saved to begin with.

That is the whole point.

TRUE salvation brings forth fruit!
---kathr4453 on 12/21/10


Kathr,
I tried to reply to that other thread, but it was full. I do apologize for taking an inference and running it off a cliff.

As for the soils only the first, when hearing word, did not believe and was't saved (Luke 8:12).

The second received the word of God with joy (Lk 8:13). When the NT says someone received the word, it means they believed it (John 17:8, Acts 2:41 & 8:14 & 17:11, 1Thess 1:6 & 2:13) and were saved.

The third hear the word but "bring no fruit to maturity" (Lk 8:14). Non-Christians aren't called to mature, only to believe the gospel. They are clearly believers, fruit or not.

fruit is not the evidence of salvation, but the evidence of maturity (see 1Cor 3:1-3).
---James_L on 12/20/10


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It is difficult to know what is confusing you in your question. Have sinned & fallen short= PAST. NOW= good ground because of the transformation that the Lord Jesus Christ had wrought(KJV) in them.
---Adetunji on 12/21/10


kathr,

i have reread the verse that i gave and now i see it.

"on the good ground are they," good ground = Christ Jesus

"which in an honest and good heart" Jesus still calls them good which means pliable and no righteous. the righteousness only comes with falling on good ground.

btw, i try to remember to say not just Christ, but Jesus Christ because there are those who believe Christ is Michael. also, there is one slick one that uses the tag "biblical Christ", but that person is also referring to Micheal.
---aka on 12/20/10


aka, Jesus ALSO said unless a seed falls to the ground and dies it abides alone, but when it dies, it brings forth fruit.

We all agree we're not saved by Fruit, but fruit is the evidence we are saved.

You see, taken with ALL truth at hand. Gal 2:20 etc,

What Jesus spoke in the Gospels is what the Holy Spirit enlightens us of those thuths today.

The first 3 listed soils/heart if you want to use that did not identify in death and resurrection life...were not crucified to the World, or with Christ..therefore could not bring forth any fruit. **GAL 5:22-25

Grow in the Grace and Knowledge Of HIM and you will understand Amazing truth.

Also read Eph 3:14 to the end of the Chapter.



---kathr4453 on 12/20/10


kathr, please reread the parable and Jesus' explanation.

Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

It is a parable about usable ground.
---aka on 12/19/10


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Robyn, christan just answered. donna66 also made a statement...we need to preach the gospel because we don't know WHO the good ground is.

Here is a false doctrine that there are those who are the Good ground. There is NO ONE who can claim they are the good ground.

The Good Ground IS CHRIST in anyone who receives Him, and it is CHRIST in you the produces fruit.

These also believe they are the GOOD CLAY God chose before the foundation of the world.

Look at THEIR lives, they are still worldly, do not GLORY in persecution, therefore bear no fruit.

They claim THEY are the good ground, yet have no evidence at all. They even Idolize those who murder as fruit. Fruit comes as we lay down OUR lives, not take them!
---kathr4453 on 12/19/10


i think people are putting way to much into this.

this is not a parable about evil/unrighteous ground and good/righteous ground.

it is about unyielding/unusable and pliable/usable land.

the field is the heart.
---aka on 12/17/10


If someone is claiming one is good ground and always has been, yes the person is contradicting scripture. But God can prepare the heart of a sinful person, such as He did with our Apostle Paul so he then became willing and eager to obey Jesus.
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/15/10


Only one person I know has stated something to that effect, and the person said, there was righteous people being born without the righteous of Christ. Those would have to belong to that group. Only in his mind.
There is no one righteous without the righteousness of Christ, no one who seeks for God, no one who understands, on one good, not even one" Romans 3:9-12, when they are lost. Everyone is born in sin. He is the only one who claims that some people are in good ground. No one who is one of the elect knows before he is saved that he was a person chosen by God to be saved. Not until he is saved and reads who God is, then he finds out who he is in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/15/10


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it is the holy spirit that does a good work in you.answering your question,scripture says,God will not be mocked,whatever a man sows,that shall he also reap.
---tom2 on 12/14/10


no it not a contradiction,the lord himself spoke the parable of the sower,the different tpyes of soil represents the different types of people,what type are you?
---tom2 on 12/14/10


Of the four grounds mentioned in the parable of the sower, the last ground was the ground that received salvation.

Why and how?

"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us, And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." Acts 15:8,9

And who is the giver of the Holy Ghost? God. And only the promised seeds will receive the Holy Ghost in regeneration (Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God) and then be justified by faith.
---christan on 12/14/10


Kathr4453: Your question does not make sense. Scripture never contradicts itself. What are you trying to say?
---Robyn on 12/13/10


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Good does not equal saved. no matter how "good" you are, you still need saved.

good ground means ground that is pliable and not necessarily perfected yet.
---aka on 12/12/10


-- Kathr :

Sister, Every Saint was once a fallen sinner...

He that received Seed into the good ground is he that Heareth the Word, and Understandeth it, which also Beareth Fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. Matt.13:23
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/12/10


Kathr,
Could you clarify exactly what it is that you're asking? You mentioned all have sinned, some claiming they're good ground and then if there is a condtradiction of scripture. I'm unclear on how you're tying all these thoughts together into your question, and how you see all these elements relating to the parable of the sower.
---James_L on 12/12/10


Their are no contradictions in scriptures, that is a secularistic point of view that attempts to discredit Gods Word.

The sower is to teach us different levels of producing fruit for the kingdom.

This indirectly is a reflection of the persons faithfulness but is not a direct des ription of ones goodness..God Bless, Paul
---paul on 12/12/10


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Kathr: "Some" are in denial & will lead you astray with their bogus, unscriptural claims. Only the divinely inspired word of God (Scripture) is worth listening to, hearing & believing.
---Leon on 12/12/10


The hearts of the hearer is the ground if you read Jesus' explanation of the parable. A wicked person can have a change of heart, in fact they/we all have to in order to even receive the word.

No contradiction just a slight misinterpretation.
---Pharisee on 12/12/10


No contradiction. All have sinned,that doesn't mean they have to be lost forever,God can draw them to Christ. Think of it like a TV,there are many channels available but the TV has to be receptive to receive them. Thats like people some are more open to hear and receive the things of God,to take them to heart and move on them and repenting to receive a new life in Christ,that is the good ground because Christ's Word and love can take root and grow in them and their lives.
---Darlene_1 on 12/12/10


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