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Explain 2 Chronicles 7:14

Explain 2 Chronicles 7:14 - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

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 ---kathr4453 on 12/14/10
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Only the Gospel brings revival..not to nations but INDIVIDUALS!.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10

Fearless one,if you knew Gospel/Truth. You teach opposite of Christ,Prophets and the Apostles. You exclude the Entire Nation/s of Israel
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord,...:
Ezekiel 14:11
That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me, .... but that they may be my people, and I may be their God, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 28:25
Thus saith the Lord GOD, When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, ...
Ezekiel 34:30
....they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.
---Trav on 1/14/11


Kathr, it is no wonder you have wondered off into the sunset, you are a dispensationalist. When I said to you, "I will not though answer dispensationalist questions.
I wanted to know how you would answer and you gave me the reason your answers are so corrupt. First you probably follow the Scofield Bible references. They are corrupt. You need to throw them away. His commentaries are very wrong. And you complain about Calvin and here you are claiming dispensationalism.
---Mark_V. on 1/14/11


This verse is completely about pride. Pride is very limiting in how we view God. With pride come arrogance, self-righteous, self sustaining ideas. The OT is full of this message of obey then disobey and repeat. Paul uses this verse from the OT to tell Gentiles of God's contract. God wants to bless us (heal our land) but God wants our heart to seek, strive, full devotion to him.
---Scott on 1/14/11


Markv, so now we are getting back on teh suject. Thank you. So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you believe the New Covenant that came into effect after Christ rose from the dead is DISPENSATIONALISM?

Now if tht is your definition of dispensationalism, and you don't believe in dispensationalism, then you really Don't believe in the New Covenant.

That really does answer the heart of calvinism. In that God chose you regardless of Christ or His finished work on the cross.

It also explains your faulty definition of regeneration.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/11


Hebrews 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

We have Calvin who is teh mediator of the elect, and Jesus the mediator of the new Covenant.

2 Cor 3 clearly state we are being changed from Glory to Glory , by the Spirit of the Lord under teh New Covenant.

All else living under OT have a veil over their eyes STILL.

THEIR BLIND, unregenerate, poor souls.
---kathr4453 on 1/14/11




Kathr, well thank you for your wonderful remarks. It is not a good day without hearing from you, helps me realize there is much work to be done. You have ask a million questions and I have provide answers from Scripture to all of them. I will not though answer dispensationalist questions. That's your cup of tea.
---Mark_V. on 1/14/11


MarkV, does that mean you LOVE Arminin? And leej absolutely LOVES Ellen White!

MarkV, why do you resort to condescending nonsense to avoid the questions asked.

You have done this on a couple blogs now. I ask a question, ask for backup you won't provide, but twist to some personal message not at all the subject matter, blowing your nose on your shirt sleeve.

You all must have a hand book of 1001 ways to avoid answering direst questions.

Please keep your emotional slobbering to yourself. It gets no where.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/11


Kathr, we're told when someone loves another, they always talk about him. They dream of him/her wake up thinking of him/her. You must have such a love for Calvin for you think, dream and write about him almost everyday. Now that is true love. I give you scripture and you give me Calvin.
I myself talk about you, answer you, even dream of how I am going to respond to you, because I love you Kathr. No matter how you respond. My love is unconditional and found in 1 Cor. 13. I do not expect anything from you in return. I care about your soul. And what this last two years has done for you. That is why I pray for you, it does not matter if you agree with me, but because of your soul, I give you the Truth right from Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/11


MarkV, you pray for me to share the Gospel with whosover will? Praise God. YOU'VE repented

However, I've been doing that long before ever meeting you.

Now here is the issue with your comments( or lack there of) here on this subject.

WE are a New Creature. We have been given a NEW HEART, to Obey. Therefore WE are not wicked and evil.

Unfortunately you never got it. Since the Calvinists here state, like christan, that MY PEOPLE are the Elect, you admit you have never been given a New Heart, or that you believe in the transforming work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. You still live in ISRAEL's past.

You never realized this was spoken to Israel before the Promise and fulfillment of a New Heart came.
---kathr4453 on 1/11/11


Kathr, by the way, I do not say to everyone who disagrees with me, they are ranting and raving. In fact no one else does what you do. Some whin, some follow me because I disagree with them on another post. They cannot get over that, so they follow me to find some loop-hole in what I say to continue to disagree. That is obvious by their questions and answers. They spend their time trying to discredit what I say then in answering for the glory of God and to defend the Word of God. I understand some of their motives, just not all of them. That's why I have to study hard, and be ready to give an answer.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/11




Kathr, in answering you said,

"May God give me the GRACE to rant and rave about HIS LOVE for lost souls, that who so ever believes on Him, will not perish but have eternal life.'"
I also pray the same prayer for you Kathr. That is what I meant. A change of heart and so a change in motive. That can only come through faith.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/11


MarkV, no one is ranting and raving here. But if you are calling anyone who disagrees with you ranting and raving, so be it.

May God give me the GRACE to rant and rave about HIS LOVE for lost souls, that who so ever believes on Him, will not perish but have eternal life.'

Now WHO again is trampling the truth of the Gospel?

If your trampling the truth is called ranting and raving in your eyes, look and SEE the shoe is on your foot!
---kathr4453 on 1/8/11


Kathr, you said to Shawn T,

"Get it right ShawnMT, and stop talking down to me as though I were stupid."

I don't believe Shawn or I are saying you are stupid. We or I am saying you are a ranting and raving women full of anger and hate, but not stupid. Just like you answered to me, you answer to Shawn. With a passion of hate, instead of a passion for Christ. He has tried to teach you in the most kind way, and you trample underfoot the Truth just as Matthew 7:6 teaches. "lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you apart." That is what you do, but you are not stupid. I pray that you change and become a women of God. There is hope, in Christ Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 1/2/11


Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


ShawnMT no it is YOU who needs to PROPERLY apply truth.

And the knowledge of sin is given through the Law of Moses, not in a tree of fruit.

And the knowledge of sin is most necessary for one to KNOW they have sinned.

Get it right ShawnMT, and stop talking down to me as though I were stupid.
---kathr4453 on 12/31/10


-- Kathr :

Justification cannot leave you-- Kathr

Amen Sister, I agree, Believe & hold Faith in Christ without a DOUBT that WE'LL REMAIN JUSTIFIED !!!

BTW ~ Doubt is the opposite of Hope... So if a person isn't doubtful, that would mean that they're Hopeful :-)

Kathr, Learn to properly comprehend the English language and your wrath probable won't get the best of you next time... as it did this time, causing you to carry this ranting & raving of yours into at least four different threads NOW... WOW !!!

Good Day
---ShawnM.T. on 12/31/10


MarkV, as long as you say you understand the ambiguous statement ShawnMT made, not found in scripture, why would I think you would understand the unambiguous truth in scripture. For you, scripture does not teach scripture.

If you say you understand and agree with ShawnMT statement on the knowledge thread, NOT found in scripture, why would I think you would understand what is in scripture.

When you can sort through what is truth and lie, I'll continue to talk to you.

If not, please don't ask me to explain anything to you.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/10


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Kathr, if you were to specify what parables and how they connect with the O.T, and not just say,
"There are 3 parables in Matthew 21-23 and they are in reference to what I showed you in Isaiah." which really doesn't say anything you have been saying, "MarkV, Matthew 21 is talking about Jesus as KING...however he rides into town on a donkey, not a WHITE HORSE as in Revelation." . You grab passages together and add what you want to express with things you have added. Give the parable, make your point, don't add anything not there. Stringing passages of different context does not make a view point correct, or Truth. Everything in Scripture has a true meaning God wanted to convey. Not your meaning but God's.
---Mark_V. on 12/29/10


MarkV, Matthew 21 is talking about Jesus as KING...however he rides into town on a donkey, not a WHITE HORSE as in Revelation.

There are 3 parables in Matthew 21-23 and they are in reference to what I showed you in Isaiah.

IF you actually understood OT you would understand that.

Matthew 21:33 says..let me tell you ANOTHER parable...
---kathr4453 on 12/28/10


Kathr, I really don't know how you come out with this stories you tell. You say that Matthew 21 starts the same as Isaiah 5:1, 2, and it does no such thing. They both speak of different matters. You again string along passages that have different meanings to them to make a point and sound very religious. In Matthew 21: 42, 43 is talking about Jesus been the chief cornerstone. Christ is the a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense to unbelievers (Isa. 8:14, 1 Peter 2:9). Jesus cited from (Ps. 118:22, 23). to suggest that The Son who was killed and thrown out of the vineyard was also the (Chief cornerstone) in God's redemptive plan.
---Mark_V. on 12/28/10


Matthew 21 begins much like Isaiah 5:1-2

It is the third parable in Matthew with a vineyard setting (20:1-16 -- the workers in the vineyard, 21:28-32 -- the two sons).

What does the vineyard represent? In Isaiah it represents Israel the vineyard = Israel, the tenants = religious leaders, landowner's slaves = prophets whom they rejected. The vineyard is not destroyed, but turned over to new tenants. The unfaithful, greedy shepherds are removed (Mt 9:36, Ezekiel 34) and new shepherds are installed to care for the sheep.

Many use Matt 21:43 to teach replacement theology. Because they don't start at Matt 20 and use OT to explain, they are deceived by their early Church fathers who taught replacement theology.
---kathr4453 on 12/26/10


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But Jesus DID say that Israel had lost the promises made to it.

Matthew 21:43---Cluny on 12/24/10

And some see they (Judah) did lose and hast lost for 2000 yrs. Taken from Judah and to Nth House of Israel.
The Lost Sheep people. Sheep .

Who has recognized/protected/ Anti-Christ Judahites claiming the name...but, regardless that they may not even be Judah.
Who has had all blessings of mankind?
In there coming and going.
In personal wealth.
In mineral wealth.
In Food and prodution of.
In land.
In protection....is your village walled in?
In war.
In knowledge,science,history.
In knowledge/practice of truth.
In sharing of truth.
In prayer.
Etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.
---Trav on 12/24/10


Faith is believing what God has told us. There are no secrets Trav...
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10

Well for you and many there are secrets and precepts unseen. One doesn't have to read your post long to see that nothing connects. In your loneliness to communicate/teach over someone...anyone you will break any scripture. We'll pray about this evil spirit. Perhaps it's your heritage. Perhaps it is your unwillingness to honor scripture? You've been shown/warned..by scripture you consider not or cannot. Hmmmm.
Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
---Trav on 12/24/10


\\ AND there is no Prophesy in the OT stating Israel will lose her promises and God will give them to America.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10
\\

I never said the promises to Israel would be given to America.

But Jesus DID say that Israel had lost the promises made to it.

Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
---Cluny on 12/24/10


Simple

If my people,(ISRAEL) which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.(ISRAEL)
2 TIM. 2:15
---michael_e on 12/23/10


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I have no problem with America being a Theocracy, as long as it's an Orthodox one.
---Cluny on 12/23/10


Well Cluny, God does. God never made a Covenant with a Gentile Nation. AND there is no Prophesy in the OT stating Israel will lose her promises and God will give them to America.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10


\\2 Chron 7:14 is GROUP call, a call to a Theocratic NATION under God! Not Individual salvation.
---kathr4453 on 12/22/10\\

I have no problem with America being a Theocracy, as long as it's an Orthodox one.
---Cluny on 12/23/10


Trav, can you show us in scripture that America is the House Of Israel or the House of Judah???

Oh I see, it's not there just like your imaginary people God created before Adam & Eve...we're just going to have to wait and see?? See if TRAV is right. TRAV, I don't believe many people have time for such things. Those who just waited to see if a comet came and took many to heaven, are in fact dead today because of such silly talk.

Faith is not making something up and then saying..just wait and see.

Faith is believing what God has told us. There are no secrets Trav...
---kathr4453 on 12/23/10


kathr4453: The above sentence though originally addressed to 1 generation of Israel is a general message/instruction of God revealing HIS character. It is useful for all generations of Israel and the entire earth, individuals, groups, denominations and nations.
---Adetunji on 12/23/10


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2 Chron 7:14 is GROUP call, a call to a Theocratic NATION under God! Not Individual salvation.
---kathr4453 on 12/22/10

You do make scripture come alive. 1 Timothy 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
You'd give almost anything to be an authoritative dance teacher except, honoring the steps or creator.
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 12/22/10


Trav, the passages you gave do say they were redeemed, you have to read each context for which they were spoken. All have different context. What we do know is that the nation of Israel is still under the law. They have not received Christ to this day. --- (Zech 12:10-13:1, Rom. 11:25-27, Rev. 11:13).
---Mark_V. on 12/22/10

God doesn't save as in Eternal Life, THEY'S or Nations, He came to save, Give eternal life to Individuals. Not Groups of people at a time. Here is another reason why Romans 9 concerning Jacob vs Esau was concerning TWO NATIONS in Rebecca's womb, does not apply to individual salvation.

2 Chron 7:14 is GROUP call, a call to a Theocratic NATION under God! Not Individual salvation.




---kathr4453 on 12/22/10


Trav, the passages you gave do say they were redeemed, you have to read each context for which they were spoken. What we do know is that the nation of Israel is still under the law. ---Mark_V. on 12/22/10

This is your Blinkered area...Judah does not equal all Israel.
Divorced Israel has accepted Christ...just as prophets stated they would. Their laws are written by GOD Heb 8:10.
You don't see these Sheep, from your context but, like the woman at the well, Christ does.
Many of Judah have accepted. Many who say are Judah Israel are not Judah... as scripture states but are liars.
It is your context eyes that are blinded perceiving of witnesses of scripture. Your believe the "liars" are who they are not.
---Trav on 12/22/10


Trav, the passages you gave do say they were redeemed, you have to read each context for which they were spoken. All have different context. What we do know is that the nation of Israel is still under the law. They have not received Christ to this day. So long as they are under the law, there is no salvation under the law since no one can keep all the law. They need a Savior. Individuals people were saved in the Old Testament, but that came through faith in the coming Christ. In Isaiah 43:1, the context is saying, That God's redemption of His people from exile is not to be complete until His Servant returns to reign over the faithful remnant in the land of Israel who have believed on Jesus Christ (Zech 12:10-13:1, Rom. 11:25-27, Rev. 11:13).
---Mark_V. on 12/22/10


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WHERE IS THE CROSS in 2nd Chron 7:14 that it should apply to anyone today???????

IT AIN'T THERE!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/21/10

Confused woman....who do the think "My People" refers too?
Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Do you understand the word "for ever", "everlasting". Terms used in regards to "his wife,his people".
Genesis 17:7
And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Psalm 105:10
---Trav on 12/21/10


The nation of Israel to this day has not been redeemed. You suggest they kept the law.
---Mark_V. on 12/21/10

I found 119 redemptions...you missed
Psalm 77:15
Thou hast with thine arm redeemed thy people, the sons of Jacob and Joseph. Selah.
Psalm 130:8
And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Isaiah 43:1
But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine.
Luke 1:68
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Galatians 4:5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
---Trav on 12/21/10


aka, I TOTALLY agree with your post and KNOW exactly where you are coming from.

MarkV, because your comment is worded or not even in keeping with the blog question ...I'll have to pass on any comment. You keep changing the subject, or trying to anyway.

TRAV, well, we all know where your doctrine come from...that Blacks and native americans ets are...well, you said it, I didn't.

WHERE IS THE CROSS in 2nd Chron 7:14 that it should apply to anyone today???????

IT AIN'T THERE!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/21/10


Those who call themselves Israel in the world is just that, of the world and not of God. the Israel of God=666 = very good is the 144,000 chosen, those who claim to be Israel today are moreover=666 the chosen amount of 144,000 unless they are born again, Jesus said it best when he told them their father was the devil. God said he who worships, in spirit, and truth are the Israel of God. In short the Israel of is of the heart not of the world.
---lamar_tucker on 12/21/10


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Kathr, please tell me in today's world what the Nation Israel is? is it made up of boundaries...genealogy?
---aka on 12/19/10

Let the prophets tell you...(she) is outranked by them.
Amos 9:9
For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Nehemiah 9:2
And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers.

(bonus scripture)
Yoshua 4:4
Then Yoshua called the twelve men, whom he had prepared of the children of Israel, out of every tribe a man:
(There is no "J" in Hebrew lang)
---Trav on 12/21/10


Kathr, I'm going to apologize to you for all the negative comments. Here is why, One, that I have too, two, because I want to, and three because I see you are all over the place when you answer with your opinions. Here is what I mean, my interpretation of 2 Chronicles 7:14 you disagree with my interpretation because you wanted to argue against me, because you say, believers are not wicked. We never said that. Then you say
" MarkV, you continually accuse Jews of not keeping the Law of which 2 Chron 7:14 is based"
with complete disregard to the passages that teach that no one is justified under the law, or can be save under the law. The nation of Israel to this day has not been redeemed. You suggest they kept the law.
---Mark_V. on 12/21/10


\\Christians are sheep.\\

And as any shepherd will tell you, sheep are noisy, smelly, and dumb.
---Cluny on 12/18/10

Ha, I love it the attributes of a Sheep.
I've been told there is no such thing as an Attack Sheep. It takes a Dog who thinks he is a sheep, being brought up with Sheep to protect them. Or a Shepherd.

So, if I'm a dog...I'll be the best dang Sheep Dog that ever found a stray Sheep....for the Shepherd. If I'm a Sheep...I need to be a Sheep...while the above you mentioned ....they don't hurt anyone being innocent in nature. I'll say it for ya...I'm probably a dog. ha.
---Trav on 12/20/10


That doesn't make any sense to me.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/10

The Golden key to why you don't get it. It never will make sense to you using katr's reasoning.

It made perfect sense to prophets...after GOd revealed it. All things made sense to the Apostles...after GOD revealed it. All of whom were Men..of GOD.
Not one of them got "it" either reasoning with their "Man" reasoning until....
---Trav on 12/20/10


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New Apostolic Reformation, The Transformations Movement, The P.E.A.C.E. Plan And Purpose-Driven Materials, And The Word-Faith Movement.

Chuck Colson (Prison Fellowship/Ect), Gary North (Christian Reconstructionist/Reformed Theology), Rick Joyner (Kansas City Prophets/Latter Rain/Nar), Earl Paulk (Manifest Sons Of God/Dominionist), Joel's Army, Tommy Tenney (Former Upc/Antitrinitarian/Nar), Vinson Synan (Reconsctructionist/Reformed), Fred Price (Word-Faith), The Word Study Bible,Ern Baxter (Associate Of William Branham, A Latter Rain Founder), Bill Hamon (Latter Rain/Prophetic Movement/Nar), Francis Frangipane (Latter Rain/Associate Of Rick Joyner/Nar), Kenneth Hagin (Word-Faith/Deceased), C. Peter Wagner (Head Apostle Of The Nar)
---aka on 12/20/10


Kev, while Paul was quoting Ezekiel 37 THE WHOLE Chapter must be read as a call to SEPARATION. MY PEOPLE was quoted from Exekiel concerning Israel. Paul concludes WE are sons and daughters also called to separation from the world.

So will God heal America after we separate ourselves fom the idolotry in America?

That doesn't make any sense to me.

WE are a Spiritual habitation, seated with Christ in heavenly places, totally crucifid to this world, including the Idolotry in America or anywhre else in the world. WE are called too COME OUT OF THEM....and be not judged with them.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/10


aka, 2 Chron 7:14 no more applies today to the CHURCH than is does to Israel TODAY. Israel the Nation TODAY and TOMORROW are still going to have to believe Jesus Christ is Lord.

Individual Jews TODAY are still going to have to receice Jesus Christ for the forgivness of sin.

This verse my friends is Israel's History PAST, under a HUMAN king.



When Christ returns and His Kingdom is set up after the great trib, the earth/land will be totally TRASHed , not just here but everywhere, then and only then will any land be healed.

Dominionists believe that is now/without Christ.

Those preaching this today are dominion/reconstructionists Theologians!

Does anyone today even know what and who they are?
---kathr4453 on 12/20/10


II Corinthians 6:16:

16 And what agreement hath the Temple of God with idoles? for ye are the Temple of the liuing God: as God hath saide, I will dwell among them, and walk there: and I will be their God, and they shalbe my people.

According to verse 16, "my people" does refer to believers.

Believers, take strong hold of this promise.
---Kev on 12/19/10


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//Now those Gentiles who make it through are not Israel or the Nation Israel, but will be those who will be in submission to Christ/King and Israel.//

those in submission are in a very good position according to scripture.

Kathr, please tell me in today's world what the Nation Israel is? is it made up of boundaries...genealogy?
---aka on 12/19/10


Markv and Kev, I disagree. Believers are not WICKED. And I believe Believers have already turned from wickedness to Christ, never to be wicked again.

MarkV, you continually accuse Jews of not keeping the Law of which 2 Chron 7:14 is based, therefore losing favor with God. However in Romans 5, the Law SET ISRAEL UP to show them they were sinners regardless of the Law they couldn't keep. The Law was ADDED that sin would abound.

If Israel could keep the Law in perfection, there would be no need for Jesus Christ sacrifice to take away sin.

Now God through Israel's disobedience could announce ALL HAVE SINNED.

Not just Gentiles, but Jews as well.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/10


II Corinthians 6:16-18:

16 And what agreement hath the Temple of God with idoles? for ye are the Temple of the liuing God: as God hath saide, I will dwell among them, and walk there: and I will be their God, and they shalbe my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and seperate your selues, saith the Lord: and touch none uncleane thing, and I will receiue you.

18 And I will be a Father vnto you, and yee shall be my sonnes and daughters, saith the Lord almightie.

According to verse 16, "my people" does refer to believers. Not Israel alone.

Good Christians (especially the simple) should not be told otherwise.

Diligently compare II Corinthians 6:16 to I Corinthians 6:19.
---Kev on 12/19/10


Next time you want an answer explain with Scripture. For you said,

"2 chron 7:14 is not a call to salvation or belief in the Messiah to begin with."

2 Chronicles 7:13-16 section features the conditions for national forgiveness of Israel's sins,
1. Humility
2. prayer
3. longing for God
4. repentance
If there was obedience on the part of the nation, the kingdom would be established and they would have "a man as ruler." Their disobedience was legendary and so was the the destruction of their kingdom and their dispersion. When Israel is saved then their King Messiah will set up this glorious kingdom (Rev. 20:1). And if those people had turned, they would have been saved on the Christ to come.
---Mark_V. on 12/19/10


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WHERE n this verse does God say He will SAVE THEIR SOUL???


You think LAND and SOUL are one in the same...\\Jesus did not die on a cross to heal anyone land!!

That is why I ask, is this effective Revival material? What is one trying to revive...material prosperity LAND?

Is my soul only saved if the land is healed?
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10


leej, thank you for knowing that is not what I said.

MarkV, In response to your first statement after christan tried to turn into a NO free will argument, you replied back with something not at all associated with the question. TOO!!!

2 chron 7:14 is not a call to salvation or belief in the Messiah to begin with.

Even today, this verse is not a call to personal salvation or belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

But markv, because you and christan tried to turn this into a no free will argument concerning personal salvation....you still don't get it.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/10


MarkV //She is suggesting that those from Israel do not need the Messiah to enter heaven because they were not mentioned in 2 Chronicles 7.

I am sure that is not what Kathyrn meant and I am sure she will respond to your assertion.
---leej on 12/18/10


What Kathr says is all double talk. For no one enters heaven without Christ, not even Israel only those who will believe by faith either in the coming Christ in the Old Testament or Jesus who came and died for our sins.
For she said,
"And here in 2 Chron 7, God never asked Israel to believe Jesus was messiah/savior to begin with, so that THEORY goes right out the window."
She is suggesting that those from Israel do not need the Messiah to enter heaven because they were not mentioned in 2 Chronicles 7. Implying there is another way into heaven other then through Christ Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 12/18/10


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\\When the Earthly Kingdom is set up, Jesus will be here.\\

Jesus said that Hid Kingdom was NOT of this earth.

\\Christians are sheep.\\

And as any shepherd will tell you, sheep are noisy, smelly, and dumb.
---Cluny on 12/18/10


For those who care to read, Zechariah 12-14 is excellent. Correct only about 1/3 of Israel will come through the Great Tribulation. When the Earthly Kingdom is set up, Jesus will be here. Now those Gentiles who make it through are not Israel or the Nation Israel, but will be those who will be in submission to Christ/King and Israel.

The CHURCH are the Saints who return With Christ when He sets up His Kingdom.

God warns gentile nations re: Egypt etc if they don't come and worship, they will be punished.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10


Since when has the United States of America or any other nation been called by God's name?
---Cluny on 12/16/10

Christ = Anointed. Christians = (followers)of the Anointed one. Anointed ones.
We were at one time called the Christian West (Anointed ones west.) Over 90% of printed gospel literature went out from this country. We fit enjoy and bear all 73 promise/covenant marks as Christians in the scripture....as do our cousin country's. Christians are sheep...if you need confirmation. We allow the wolves to masquerade and wolfpack....for wha's a poor sheep to do? Leslies got the sheeps out.
---Trav on 12/16/10


When you learn what Israel is going to be save then you have your answer. Kathr says all Israel will be saved, but as we know if we have studied, "They are not all Israel who are of Israel" Romans 9:6. There is an "Israel after the flesh" ( 1 Cor. 10:18) and an "Israel of God" ( Galatians 6:16) made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah. To apply the "all Israel" which "will be saved" to a group of Jews or Israelis who are separated from God's Church is to deny the Christ accomplishments on the Cross.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/10


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Rod4him, great info. Thanks.

To answer another clans statement. God will Never ask us to do anything, without giving us first the ability to respond.

And here in 2 Chron 7, God never asked Israel to believe Jesus was messiah/savior to begin with, so that THEORY goes right out the window.

Because Israel was already God's ELECT, who became disobedient in spite of their election, God chastened. God will never chasten those who are not His.

But one must remember, there is a vast difference between being chastened out of Love by a Father as God was to Israel, and as we too are, and the receiver of God's wrath.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/10


\\That was the beginning of replacement theology.\\

If by "replacement theology," you mean the teaching that the Church is the heir of the promises made to old Israel, that teaching began with the Apostles, not Constantine.

All the pre-Nicene writers taught it.

**Only the Gospel brings revival..not to nations but INDIVIDUALS**

Good point, kathr.
---Cluny on 12/16/10


//This scripture plainly contains a defining phrase. And that defining phrase is"which are called by my name" and it does not apply to Israel but applies of course to Christians!!!!//

Actually, that's what Constantine thought. Supposedly, Constantine had a vision of a cross and was told to use that sign in all his conquests, which he did when he defeated Maxentius in the West. That was the beginning of replacement theology.
---Rod4Him on 12/16/10


Mima, I believe cluny is correct. NO NATION but Israel has ever been God's.

I do know this verse is used today for Revival in America. Exactly what about our land needs to be healed. How do we heal it mima? By becoming a Theocracy? Can God really Bless a Nation who's constitution allows for many gods?

So is it fair to place blame on Christians who's constitution is not a Theocracy? Is that asking the impossible.

This verse is used for revival. Revival of WHAT? A Theocratic government that was never here to begin with?

Only the Gospel brings revival..not to nations but INDIVIDUALS!.


---kathr4453 on 12/16/10


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This scripture plainly contains a defining phrase. And that defining phrase is"which are called by my name" and it does not apply to Israel but applies of course to Christians!!!!
---mima on 12/16/10


\\It means just what it says - if we humble ourselves, pray, seek God's face, and repent (turn from our wicked ways), then God will forgive us and heal our land (make America or any other place ONE nation UNDER God).
---Leslie on 12/15/10\\

Since when has the United States of America or any other nation been called by God's name?
---Cluny on 12/16/10


Aka, your right, we have got together to defend the Truth of Scripture, and in the process defend the Sovereign right for God to Rule. In the beginning it seemed like I was alone and others were busy with other blogs, some did not want to get involved, but now many more are answering to her and others whose views is hatred for God as Ruler of all things. And we do it with Scripture. Some write very precise and explain things much different then I. Some have a lot of patience then I. I'm sorry I am not very polite, that is who I am. In person I am a real nice guy. Here people lose their cool and say all kinds of terrible things I never said, so I respond with Scripture and my feelings just as the Psalmist did many times.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/10


kathr, you have no clue or even an understanding of the word "elect" mentioned in Scripture, right?

There are many who claim to be Calvinist, so what? Are they save because they call themselves Calvinist? I think not, not according to the Scriptures anyways. And by the same token, are those who call themselves Christians saved? Christians are instructed "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1

"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his." 2 Timothy 2:19
---christan on 12/15/10


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It means just what it says - if we humble ourselves, pray, seek God's face, and repent (turn from our wicked ways), then God will forgive us and heal our land (make America or any other place ONE nation UNDER God).
---Leslie on 12/15/10


i have seen question after question, kathr is forced into endless, circular arguments over free will from about 5 people. i did not read this question as a question of predestination.
---aka on 12/15/10


\\Oh But here is something. God SAVED Nineveh so they could repent, making them the Elect also. So, is the elect individuals or Cities/Nations of people?\\

Here's something else, kathr.

Have you seen Nineveh lately? It's RUINS.

It's also very far inland, so that must have been a big barf on the part of the sea monster to project him that far from the Mediterranean.
---Cluny on 12/15/10


kathr, "So, we really don't know if God plans on saving America so she can repent and become the ELECT as well." Again, your theology is all over the place.

God will only save His elect whom He has given to Christ and this was decided before they were even created or have done anything good or evil, as taught in Romans 9.

As for your understanding based on your comment above, God saves and the saved becomes an elect. You contradict Paul's teaching of election, what rubbish!
---christan on 12/15/10


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Christian, as you can see there was a lot of talking and no Scripture to support all that talk. I believe the explanation that Bruce gave is sufficient for those passages in 2 Chronicles 7:14. It is very simple. For as we know right this day, Israel has not received what it has been promised.
Why? "Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law, for they stumble at that stumbling stone." Romans 9"32. But the day will come, when God will give them that faith to believe, and I don't mean to all of them, but only those who were chosen from the foundation of the world, and they will believe and commit their lives to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/15/10


Oh But here is something. God SAVED Nineveh so they could repent, making them the Elect also. So, is the elect individuals or Cities/Nations of people?

So, we really don't know if God plans on saving America so she can repent and become the ELECT as well.

So, with that fact in mind here, we all need to go and preach the Godpel to everyone in America. God can, as christan said, Save a Nation just like that..which includes everyone in that Nation. Right!

Or do some Churches already assume America is saved and this is why America is called to repent.

Therefore if America is already saved, EVERYONE here on this blog from America is GOD'S ELECT!

I'm lovin it!
---kathr4453 on 12/15/10


christan, This discussion is not about FREE WILL vs no free will. That thought never crossed my mind.

But now that your here using your own argument against yourselves, WHY do Calvin Churches use this scripture in America. Are there no calvinists in China?

OR is it that only the ELECT can repent because they are the only saved ones.

OH MY GOSH christan, you just answered the mystery.

ONLY the Elect can repent because they are the only ones who are already saved. Unsaved people need to be saved to repent according to your doctrine.

OK THEN, just how did you all come to be wicked?
---kathr4453 on 12/15/10


Kathr, it's so clear that you will use verses like this to justify your love for the free-will when Scripture doesn't even suggest of such a thing?

How does a prideful man in his sin choose to humble himself before God Almighty? How does a sinful man whose ways are evil caused by the fall turn from his evil works? How does a sinner without faith from God repent and ask God for forgiveness? For Scripture says "But without faith it is impossible to please him..."

How do you think free-will exist when Scripture says "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." (Proverbs 21:1)

How? How? How?
---christan on 12/14/10


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When I see the promises given to Christians today, I believe those promises apply to ALL the Church. When I do see someone calim a promise that another cannot claim, I ask myself WHY.

Those Christians in China, Sololia and around the world cannot claim this promise. So why do we in America claim it? Someone said THE ELECT are My People. However all through out scripture MY PEOPLE God calls Israel.

To think that God favors Christians because they are American is being a respector of persons.

Or to even think we prosper, are a wealthy, powerful nation because WE ARE My PEOPLE where God loves us more is sad. Sad that Christians are being killed around the world, while we are so much more concerned with our own comfort.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/10


He's saying cut out the idolatry, the wicked dealings with your neighbors...until then your unaccepted sacrifice in the temple will stand as a testimony against you. It's God speaking a word of promise to Israel to return to his love.
The redeemed could be lumped in here because God deals with the sin of his people in this life, and were taught in 1 Peter 3 that our prayers can be hindered. God disciplines those that are his own, it's that simple.
---Pharisee on 12/14/10


This chapter is really quite self explanatory. I suggest you read the whole thing.

Solomon just finished and dedicated a new temple. God responded telling him if a time should come that He would punish the Jews ("My people") for their disobedience, then, if they would repent, pray and return to their God, he would forgive them and heal their land. This is followed by a dire warning that if they do not, He would punish them further.

We see this happen several times throughout their history.
---Bruce5656 on 12/14/10


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