ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

The Law Of Knowledge

Before the Fall, man was Justified to eat of anything but the Tree containing the Knowledge of sinful evil. Why do those who are in Hopes of remaining Justified through Faith in Christ, continuing to eat/follow the law of the Knowledge of sin, originating from that Tree, which they're no longer under?

Join Our Christian Dating and Take The Ten Commandments Bible Quiz
 ---Shawn.M.T. on 12/16/10
     Helpful Blog Vote (3)

Post a New Blog



kathr4453//No such thing as total depravity. Thank you leej for pointing that out.

Our first parents being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to His wise & holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory. Westminster Confession VI.1

Scripture given in support is Gen. 3:13, 2 Cor. 11:3, Romans 11:32.

Now if you were a Mormon, you would believe the Fall was necessary for you to acquire a human body as when you were begotten, you were yet a pre-existing spirit being w/o a body.
---leej on 1/4/11


\\Imagining running about in the buff and not feeling ashamed of it.
---leej on 1/3/11\\

I have not problem, but i would just make people curse their eyes, and get arrested for littering in the bargain.

**Only a depraved person would run around and not feel ashamed.**

Little children do that all the time.
---Cluny on 1/4/11


there was neither drug nor poison in the fruit. The bible says that it was good.

The problems came with the disobedience to the commandmnt of God that they not touch or eat from it.
---francis on 1/4/11


Kathr "Only a depraved person would run around and not feel ashamed"

Adam & Eve went around naked before they ate from the Tree. Are you suggesting that they were depraved before they committed that sin?

Surely not.

But an interesting point arises ... If Adam & Eve in their early sinless state were aboe to go round naked, and it is only after they became sinners that they felt they had to wear clothes ... what then of those who nowadays claim to be sinless ... presumably they can run round naked?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/4/11


I am also waiting for Tom to tell us why he ask if Shawn T was a Jehovah Witness and what is he trying to imply by asking. Sounds to me that if he doesn't like an answer you must be a Jehovah Witness. Kathr must be a Jehovah Witness since she doesn't like the answers and also strings along opinions after opinions with no Scripture. Most Jehovah Witnesses that come to my house do believe in the story of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. What they have crossed up is the deity of Christ just as Kathr does.
---Mark_V. on 1/4/11




To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Only a depraved person would run around and not feel ashamed-- Kathr

Brethren, Adam & Eve before the 'Fall' were not depraved nor did they feel ashamed of being naked !!!
---ShawnM.T. on 1/4/11


Imagining running about in the buff and not feeling ashamed of it.
---leej on 1/3/11

Obviously they did feel ashamed. They even covered themselves with leaves. Then God covered them with animal skins.

Only a depraved person would run around and not feel ashamed.

No such thing as total depravity. Thank you leej for pointing that out.
---kathr4453 on 1/4/11


Yes they were consciously aware they were naked, and hid from God.

God asked, WHO told you you were naked? What did they say?

God covered/clothed Adam and Eve. God obviously taught them how to stay covered. Abel aware of his fallen nature stayed covered according to Gods direction, offered a blood sacrifice, acceptable to God.

Today our conscience has been purged forever from dead works with the blood of Christ, to serve the Living God. Hebrews.
---kathr4453 on 1/4/11


That apple Adam & Eve ate much have contained some kind of drug that changed their very nature.

Imagining running about in the buff and not feeling ashamed of it.
---leej on 1/3/11


-- Tom :

You state in your question "originating from that tree". I ask you, what tree?-- Tom

Brother, Really I don't know what tree Kathr was asking about, she wasn't specific... but in the Blog Question I was referring to the one Tree man was not justified to eat from, "The Tree of Knowledge of good & evil"

... and as Bob asked, What brought on the question of whether or not I was a Jehovah Witness? What are you implying about Jehovah Witnesses?
---Shawn.M.T on 1/3/11




Actually, the knowledge of sin came from Adam and Eve disobeying God by eating of the tree God told them not to eat of.
Sin is trangression of what God tells us not to do, correct? Yes.
So, Adam and Eve knew they were not supposed to eat of the tree and they did anyway, thus transgresing the one law God had set for them at that time.
The sin came from disobeying God.
---ginger on 1/3/11


Sister, To your first question... No !!!

To your second question Kathr are you suggesting that the Tree isn't still here?


---ShawnM.T. on 12/28/10

If you were to go back and read shawn, kathr asked you specifically if the tree was still here. Here was your answer.

Please tell me what tree you are talking about. You state in your question " "originating from that tree".

I ask you, what tree?
---Tom on 1/3/11


-- Tom :

It was called the the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. not the knowledge of sin.--Tom

Brother, The Blog Question never presumably said any "one can continue to eat anything from any trees in the Garden of Eden." nor that the Tree of Knowledge of good & evil was called the knowledge of sin... All that has been implied by Kathr !!!

It might have been clearer to say "continuing to follow the law of knowledge of sin, originating from the disobedience of eating the fruit of that Tree."

... and No, I'm not a Jehovah Witness
---Shawn.M.T on 1/3/11


Tom, what brought the question as to whether Shawn was a Jehovah Witness or not? Are you implying Jehovah Witnesses believe something different concerning The Tree of Knowledge of good and Evil then Christians?
---Bob on 1/3/11


Shawn, now please explain the tree. This too is unclear. It was called the the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. not the knowledge of sin.

As kathr4453 stated, the knowledge of sin originated from the Law of Moses, not the tree in the garden.

No one can continue to eat anything from any trees in the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden has been sealed off forever, forbidding man to enter.

Now I must ask you, are you a Jehovah Witness?
---Tom on 1/3/11


-- Tom :

Do you believe certain men remained justified from Adam's sin?--Tom

Brother, NO, I Believe by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin passed upon all men.

The Blog Question isn't saying those who are in DOUBT of remaining Justified through Faith in Christ as Kathr continues to wrathfully imply with all her ranting & raving... that's the opposite of what it's saying, nor is the Question presuming there are deeds we must do to remain justified.

It might have been clearer just to say "Those remaining Justified through Faith in Christ.

Tom, I still Believe "Once Seal with the Holy Spirit of Promise Always Sealed."
---ShawnM.T. on 1/2/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


Romans 3:21-26


21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets,

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

---24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God,

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/11


Kath4453--//what right does shawnMT have in telling anyone they can lose their justification?//
That was my point about language! He didn't tell anyone that! He just referred to "those who" are "in hopes of remaining" justified. That means he doesn't include HIMSELF in that group! It does not mean that he includes YOU, either.
---Donna66 on 1/2/11


Shawn, before I can answer your question, please give examples of deeds we must do to remain justified.

Do you believe certain men remained justified from Adam's sin?

You did not correct your original question.

How does your faith in "Once Saved Always Saved" factor into your question? Have you repented from your original belief of "Once Saved Always Saved"?
---Tom on 1/2/11


-- Rod4Him & Tom :

Brethren, I agree !!! As Rod stated using the word "permitted" may have been less confusing than using the word "Justified", but there's a reason I used it and there was a distinction made between the two uses of the word when I stated remaining Justified through Faith in Christ.

A lot of things could have been made clearer but that does not mean they're any the less True.

This question (through an open dialog which never got started thanks to nit-picking) was intended to reveal the Truth of WHERE Justifying deeds have always originated... which is from listening/following the Spirit of God(now through Christ), and not from the deeds of the law of the knowledge of sin !!!
---ShawnM.T. on 1/2/11


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


In part it is because they were taught wrong. Many unlearned ministers have been incorrectly taught in the seminaries that the Bible is One Word of God, rather than taught the truth that the Bible is Two Words from God: There are 2 Testaments, not one. The O.T. for Before Christ, and N.T. for Anno Domini (in the annual of the Lord). The O.T. is the Levitical Law, and the N.T. is the Judaic Law. We are no longer under the leaven of the O.T. Law, but presently we are under the N.T. Law, which has superceded the abolished O.T. Law. When preaching we must justly divide the Word appropriately.
---Eloy on 1/2/11


Rod, I agree. To properly use the word justified would be for those Justified by God as sinners in the imputation of Christ's righteousness to sinners.

To apply justified to one before the fall, and again after the fall is where the confusion begins here in this question. Man was never justified to eat anything. To say one was justified before the fall, gives the meaning of justified two entirely different meanings. But to use "remain justified" is giving the impression it has the same meaning which is impossible apart from faith in Christ.

This question is not based on any truth.
---Tom on 1/1/11


Have I lost all sense of language to believe that "those who are" implies someone other than the speaker?
---Donna66 on 12/31/10


Rod4him, the law of the knowledge of sin is also unclear, as that did not come from a tree, but the Law of Moses, and the Law of Moses IS NOT SIN.

And donna, what right does shawnMT have in telling anyone they can lose their justification, or even cause one to doubt they will keep it, based on a tree in the garden that was not even called the law of sinful knowledge to begin with.

I would say if you understood that you really have lost your sense of language.
---kathr4453 on 1/1/11


//Is it just me? Am I the only one who did not take Shawns question as a statement of His OWN beliefs?//

I've read enough of his blogs that I believe he believes in "justified through faith in Christ" alone.

However, the blog question could have been clearer. The question, "...man was Justified to eat of anything..." is not clear. Justified? Man was permitted/instructed to eat vegetables, but not of a specific tree, of life and knowledge of good and evil. Again, "...containing the Knowledge of sinful evil." Perhaps this comes from an unfamiliar translation.

I assumed the question was proposing a "law verses faith" debate, which produces endless strife and contention.
---Rod4Him on 12/31/10


Shop For Church Seating


Is it just me? Am I the only one who did not take Shawns question as a satement of His OWN beliefs? Why do those who are in Hopes of remaining Justified through Faith in Christ, continuing to eat/follow...

Have I lost all sense of language to believe that "those who are" implies someone other than the speaker?
---Donna66 on 12/31/10


NO SHAWNMT, please read!

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


STOP trying to wiggle out of your original question that contradicts Romans 3:24
---kathr4453 on 12/31/10


Kathr4453-- I said
I AM JUSTIFIED (not "in hopes of"), through Grace by faith. I'm no longer under the law.

This is perfectly consistant with everything else I've said elswhere.
If I agree with you, why are you still trying to manufacture a conflict?
---Donna66 on 12/31/10


-- Kathr :

Justification cannot leave you-- Kathr

Amen Sister, I agree, Believe & hold Faith in Christ without a DOUBT that WE'LL REMAIN JUSTIFIED !!!

BTW ~ Doubt is the opposite of Hope... So if a person isn't doubtful, that would mean that they're Hopeful :-)

Kathr, Learn to properly comprehend the English language and your wrath probable won't get the best of you next time... as it did this time, causing you to carry this ranting & raving of yours into at least three different threads !!!

Good Day
---Shawn.M.T on 12/31/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


Donna66, what I'm talking about is..if you had stated that here as you did on another post, you would have AGREED that I was saying the same thing..but you didn't donna66, BUT NOW you have, and also stated you too are NOT in hopes of remaining Justified.

ShawnMT also stated to me on another blog...he said wasn't my faith in hopes of remaining justified..I said NO my Faith is not in faith, but in Christ who Justified me.

Ambiguous statements not found in scripture cause confusion and arguments.

NOTHING shawnMT stated here has ANY truth.

It HAS caused confusion and strife...
---kathr4453 on 12/31/10


Sister Donna66 and Shawn T, and moderators, I want to express my thanks for all the answers all of you have given in the name of the Lord, and wish you a wonderful New Year. Keep safe and peace be with you.
---Mark_V. on 12/31/10


kath4453--What are you talking about?
I would say we are justified when we come to faith in Jesus as our Savior. God sees us as righteous since Christ's righteousness is then imputed to us.. What have I said that contradicts this? The scriptures I gave don't contradict, either.

I AM justified (not "in hopes of"), through Grace by faith. I'm no longer under the law.
I didn't post in order to argue.
---Donna66 on 12/30/10


However the KNOWLEDGE of sin is what brings us to Christ.

Having the knowledge of sin is a wonderful thing God gave man to KNOW he is a sinner.

Knowledge itself is not sin. Acting on that Knowledge is a choice.

If I watch a documentary on the slave trade of young girls in Asia and am enlightened/knowledgeable about such horrible sin, doesn't jeopardize my Justification in any way. If the Idea gave me the Idea to also join in the salve trade business...THEN that's a different matter...
---kathr4453 on 12/30/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Refinancing


It appears ShawnMT doesn't know what he's talking about, taking scripture totally out of context, mis-quoting to begin with a verse not even there..

ShawnMT's question is based on a straw man EASILY blown away.

There is no such TREE as the LAW of the knowledge of sin. The Law of Moses is the Law of the knowledge of sin and was NEVER in the Garden /tree to begin with.

Adam & Eve were Never under the Law of Moses...HELLO!
---kathr4453 on 12/30/10


Kathr, You don't even know what you are saying anymore. You lost yourself in a big hole, you cannot come out of. Your ranting and raving only brings more sin to your list. You call the word of God. crap. Take a pill.
---Mark_V. on 12/29/10


ShawnMT, MarkV i get it. You all now admit you are not truly saved when you are justified. You believe you can continue in sin and still eat from the tree adam ate and died. You just keep dying over and over.

Well, good luck in your hopes of remaining justified. You all just may lose your salvation after all, since you never repented FIRST and turned from sin to Christ to be justified in the first place.

If you had done it the way God said in the first place, nothing but Christ Himself wuld satisfy your taste buds.

MarkV, please stop raving and read the question and my answers. You know what i'm saying is true. Your pride just won't let you admit it.
---kathr4453 on 12/29/10


Kathr4453--- I would say we are justified when we come to faith in Jesus as our Savior. God sees us as righteous since Christ's righteousness is then imputed to us.

Among the things God hates
Prv 6:16 are
Pro 6:19b and he that soweth discord among brethren.
---Donna66 on 12/12/10

Donna66, you made this statement on another thread. To now contradict that would actually be sowing discord among brethren.

You are a respecter of persons or a respecter of truth regardless of who states it?
---kathr4453 on 12/29/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Franchises


Donna66, now with all the verses you listed, was there any verses after saying:

Why do those who are in Hopes of remaining Justified through Faith in Christ, continuing to eat/follow the law of the Knowledge of sin, originating from that Tree, which they're no longer under?



I'm not in hopes OF REMAINING JUSTIFIED DONNA66...I AM jUSTIFIED

My Justification is not conditional.

If ANYONE else but a Calvinist asked this...YOU ALL would be all over them!
---kathr4453 on 12/29/10


Kathr, I've been answering you because of the very reason you accuse Shawn T of doing when you said,

"And as long as you all play around with words, giving new definition and playing around with words as Justified, sanctified, faith, grace, salvation, New Birth, etc, You will never have any KNOWLEDGE that is in Christ alone."
That is exactly what you do, string along passages, and you do what you say others do. Do you even know why? because they and I tell you the Truth of Scripture and you hate anyone to oppose your view. But we are not here to satisfy your view, but to present the Truth. Your reasons for what you do, you will have to answer to God. You are not going against us, but against the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 12/29/10


donna, It appears Shawn is saying one can lose their salvation.

In hopes to remain justified, would suggest one would not remain justified under the condition of, well, what? Works?

So you really don't believe in predestination or election.

It would appear all who agree with shawn don't either.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
---Laura on 12/29/10


Kathr, why do you have to resort to making remarks about others? I never suggested or said that there was no original sin or that I was never a sinner. In fact I still sin, and the longer I am a Christian the more I can see the sins that I do. So please do not put words in my mouth that are not there. There is no light in you Kathr, only darkness. Just like a blind eye needs a supernatural act from a doctor to bring light to an eye through surgery, you need a supernatural act from God to bring light to your eyes so that you can see. Otherwise you will remain blind.
---Mark_V. on 12/29/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Lead Generation


Kath4453 If you think ShawnT has a strange understanding of Justified, do the following verses also sound "strange" to you?

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
---Donna66 on 12/28/10


Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:
1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
---micha9344 on 12/28/10


-- Kathr :

Good doesn't lead to life either!...you have a very strange understanding of Justified--Kathr

Sister, You lack the Wisdom to Understand that God is Good and He Leads us to Life in Christ... and your lack of Wisdom is why the Truth I'm sharing about Justification appears strange to your Understanding !!!

BTW ~ The disobedience of Adam & Eve wasn't separate from eating the fruit, as you wish to claim by play with words when you stated that "They DISOBEYED and ate of the tree of Good and Evil".

As I shared earlier... The Truth is(which you wish to call crap) Adam & Eve disobeyed BY eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of good & evil

Good Day
---Shawn.M.T on 12/28/10


-- Kathr :

Shawn.M.T. my answer is the same as always...shall we continue to sin that GRACE may abound..GOD FORBID!!!-- Kathr

Sister, I don't know what question you think you're answering, but if, while we seek to be Justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid !!! Gal.2:17

Kathr, I don't frustrate the Grace of God : for if Righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal.2:21

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ Liveth in me: and the Life which I now Live in the flesh I Live by the Faith of the Son of God, who Loved me, and gave Himself for me. Gal.2:20
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/28/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Mortgages


The Justification of our testimony doesn't come by the works of the law b/c no one is Justified by the deeds of the knowledge of sin,----
---ShawnM.T. on 12/28/10
ShawnMT you have a very strange understanding of Justified.

And as long as you all play around with words, giving new definition and playing around with words as Justified, sanctified, faith, grace, salvation, New Birth, etc,
You will never have any KNOWLEDGE that is in Christ alone.

I'm getting sick of all this GNOSTIC garbage here from your calvin camp.

Taking scripture and rubbing grape jelly on it ShawnMT will not make those IN CHRIST eat it any easier.
---kathr4453 on 12/28/10


markv, it sounds as though you do not believe in original sin. Are you saying God led you from the moment you were born? You admit you never confessed yourself a sinner?

kathr, I do believe in original sin and have no problem with understanding your, Linda or Cluny's statements.
---Laura on 12/28/10


-- Wordonly :

You need instructions from our Father of what is good for us to eat, found in the righteousness of the Law.Or do you eat poisonous snakes--Wordonly

Brethren, The Guidance God's Children need is revealed through our relationship with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In the matter of 'what's good for us to eat', always remember what the Lord said when He told Peter to rise, kill & eat in Act 10:13-15 What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common... and Mark 16:16-18 which shares that these signs shall follow them that Believe, They shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/28/10


ShawnM.T :

////Before the fall man was justified to eat anything but the tree containing sinful evil///


No man was not justified to eat anything, God told man what was to be His food.
Genesis 1:29, Genesis 2:9 He need not eat any dirt.

Before the fall it was all good. But now after the fall bad exists in the world. You need instructions from our Father of what is good for us to eat, found in the righteousness of the Law. Or do you eat poisonous snakes?

Phl 3:6 as touching zeal, persecuting the church, as touching the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless.
---Wordonly on 12/27/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Personal Loans


-- Kathr :

Sister, To your first question... No !!!

To your second question Kathr are you suggesting that the Tree isn't still here?

We're Justified by Faith in Christ which is wrought with the Works from listening to the Holy Spirit that becomes our testimony.

The Justification of our testimony doesn't come by the works of the law b/c no one is Justified by the deeds of the knowledge of sin, but still many continue to follow the law in Hopes its deeds keeps them Justified, even after coming to Christ... not Understanding that we gain our testimony of Justified Work through our relationship in following the Holy Spirit who Teaches, Guides & keep us in Remembrance of all Christ said & did.
---ShawnM.T. on 12/28/10


ShawnM.T. my answer is the same as always...shall we continue to sin that GRACE may abound..GOD FORBID!!!

OH but that's works right...so are you saying it's OK to continue to sin?? Either way one answers this question, MarkV will be right there on their heels will the no free will or predestination dogma! Can't win!


Oh and a person with a conscience like when Adam & Eve sinned would in fact hide themselves AS THEY DID.

If they were so depraved as to not even know they disobeyed they would have had no conscience at all to hide.
---kathr4453 on 12/28/10


Brethren, Thanks for sharing but the Blog Question never presumed that's what it was called nor that it was just "simply sinful evil"... and Linda the Knowledge of Good doesn't lead to death. Death is the wages of sin.

Cluny, The law of the Knowledge of sin did ENTER into the world by one man's disobedience of eating fruit... so instead of nit-picking on every thread at things that aren't there, try being swifter to Hear - slower to speak. You just may learn when you need not to speak at all-avoid implying things never presumed !!!
---Shawn.M.T on 12/17/10

Wow, what a mouth full of CRAP ShawnMT,

They DISOBEYED and ate of the tree of Good and Evil and DIED period!

Good doesn't lead to life either!
---kathr4453 on 12/28/10


Kathr, whatsoever you say does not offend me at all, because I know through Scripture no one who is lost has the ability within him to come to Christ while lost. No one, not even you. Those who are in Darkness love darkness and of themselves they cannot love the light. They cannot of themselves give themselves eyes to see. God has to do a supernatural act in their lives in order for them to see. You still do not see the Truth because, you are still in darkness. And you will remain there until God brings does surgery on you.
"I will lead them in paths they have not known, I will make darkness light before them, and crooked places straight"
Notice: "I" the Lord, will make darkness light.
---Mark_V. on 12/28/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Auto Insurance


To KNOW good and evil, to have a conscience to know right from wrong is clearly in scripture Romans 1 and 2. Because I have a conscience to know these things even before salvation in no way threatens the fact that Jesus died for our sin.

The law also pointed to right and wrong.

Your conscience cannot save you anymore than the law can.
SOOOOO, I really don't know what the problem is.

Man is accountable before God because God gave man a conscience and the Law of which man will be judged.

Yes there are Jeffy Dommers out there, but we don't inherit a seared conscience.

NO such thing as total depravity, meaning man can and does know he is a sinner.

I really don't care if that offends the NO free willers!
---kathr4453 on 12/27/10


Before the Fall, man was Justified to eat of anything but the Tree containing the Knowledge of sinful evil. Why do those who are in Hopes of remaining Justified through Faith in Christ, continuing to eat/follow the law of the Knowledge of sin, originating from that Tree, which they're no longer under?

---Shawn.M.T. on 12/16/10


First of all ShawnMT, are you suggesting that Justification can be lost? Are you suggesting the tree is still here?
---kathr4453 on 12/27/10


Kathr, everyone who disagreed with you on the topic of free will, you oppose no matter the subject, and want to show how wrong they are with your false ideas. And when you give Scripture it is never about what the Scripture really says. You said,
"Romans 6-8 clearly teach the Spirit of the LIFE of Christ in you, vs teh LAW in the past."
That passage talks about "Now we are dead in Christ, we believe we shall also live with Him." Then you said,

"No one was indwelt by the RISEN CHRIST in the OT. If that were so, then there would be no need for Calvary or the NEW COVENANT promising the Spirit.
First, it is the Spirit of God who indwells believers. In the O.T. it indwell many.
---Mark_V. on 12/27/10


Kathr 2: You spoke without studying the ministries of the Holy Spirit.
First, it is said that the Spirit was in many. Pharaoh recognized the indwelling of the Spirit in Joseph ( Gen. 41:38) whether Pharaoh understood the reference is something else. But you should. The Spirit was clearly said to be in Joshua, and this is the reason for God choosing him (Numbers 27:18). The Spirit was also said to be in Daniel (Dan. 4:8, 5:11-14, 6:3). Second the Spirit was known to come upon some others, and Third, The Spirit is said to have "filled" some. This is recorded of Bezalel (Ex. 31:3, 35:31). The N.T. reveals that the Spirit in the prophets gave them discernment and wisdom ( 1Peter 1:11). Soon, you will not know what is Truth.
---Mark_V. on 12/27/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Holidays


The only way one enters His Rest is to enter through the veil, that is to say His Flesh Heb 10.

Which means "I am Crucified with Christ...and reckon the old man DEAD to sin. Romans 6

---kathr4453 on 12/27/10


Kath--// No donn66,all men from the time of the fall of Adam have a conscience of good and evil, right and wrong of which God will also judge men! //

Therefore men never sinned again. Right? How is it that having a conscience for good and evil, right and wrong, men continue to sin and sin repeatedly? No one but Jesus has ever been sinless. Why is that? And how have you "disproved" the doctrine of total depravity?
---Donna66 on 12/27/10


No donn66,all men from the time of the fall of Adam have a conscience of good and evil, right and wrong of which God will also judge men!
John 8:9
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, ---

Romans 2:15
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
---kathr4453 on 12/27/10


Kath4453-- //FROM that moment on, man has a conscience to KNOW Good and to Know Evil and KNOW the difference between the two.
DISPROVING totally the false doctrine of total depravity!//

No. Man's sinfullnes is not based on ignorance, but the inborn inclination to perform evil, even IF he knows it is evil.

ShawnT-- Great question!
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held, that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
---Donn66 on 12/26/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Health Insurance


//Until those who rest in the Finished Works of Christ leave behind the knowledge of sin by coming out from underneath the law, they will never learn to completely Trust in the Holy Spirit to keep them in remembrance of all that Christ did & said...

Exactly, and those who attempt to live under the law will always be aware of their sinfulness as the law simply reveals what sin is.

They can never enter into His rest.
---leej on 12/26/10


Knowledge is power especially knowledge of the Word of God.

If you do not want to follow a Pied Piper, get into the Bible and study the commentaries otherwise you may find yourself joining the Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormon, Seventh Day Adventist, the Way International, or other cultic groups that do not follow the clear teachings of the Bible or a gross distortion thereof.
---leej on 12/26/10


-- Linda :

I'm not interested in arguing with you... --- Linda

Sister, When I took the time to clarify your laps in correctly reading the Blog Question on 12/17/10, I was in hopes that you(like Cluny) had no interest in arguing your attempt of trying to imply that the Blog Question was presuming that the Tree of Knowledge was called the Tree of the Knowledge of sinful evil... but you were swifter to speak than you were to Hear what was being asked and later on explained, and was more interested in going off into the blind wrathful strife of arguing, all b/c of you're inability to correctly read the Blog Question !!!

Good Day
---ShawnM.T. on 12/26/10


-- MarkV :

Brother, Until those who rest in the Finished Works of Christ leave behind the knowledge of sin by coming out from underneath the law, they will never learn to completely Trust in the Holy Spirit to keep them in remembrance of all that Christ did & said... and they will continue to feel that resting in Christ is easier said than done, never realizing the Strength of Christ that comes from the relationship of just Trusting & listening to the Guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit which make His Yoke easy & His burden light !!!

Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/26/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Dating


ShawnM.T. The sin wasn't in the fruit, but in the heart of Adam & Eve.

And I believe the moment they ate their conscience was awakened to good and evil.

How can anyone have a conscience to know right from wrong, unless the conscience is awake to that.

FROM that moment on, man has a conscience to KNOW Good and to Know Evil and KNOW the difference between the two.

DISPROVING totally the false doctrine of total depravity!
---kathr4453 on 12/26/10


Have it your way Shawn. I'm not interested in arguing with you over motives or opinions....either yours or mine.
---Linda on 12/26/10


-- Linda :

since the only thing I got out of the whole last post was the word "sister", then surely it is relationship I am interested in.--Linda

Sister, How do you get from ME addressing you as a Brethren, meaning that YOU are interested in a relationship?

That's means I'm interested in a relationship. If you were interested in having a relationship you would have been swifter to Hear & slower to speak, in order to avoid your own wrathful strife of implying things which were never presumed in the first place, b/c the wrath of man worketh not the Righteousness of God.

Good Day
---ShawnM.T. on 12/26/10


Shawn T, thank you for sharing on the Word of God. What I find is that many who oppose the Sovereignty of God or their views on spiritual matters, they look for an opportunity to find something you say to argue too. Your question I believe was well understood and could have been answered the appropriate way.
I myself like Bill-willa's answer. There is many on line who continue to eat from that tree even though they are saved. Can someone with the Spirit of God continue to eat from that tree? It seems from the answers we see, they can. What do you think brother?
---Mark_V. on 12/26/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Health Treatments


mmm fruit...knowledge and life
Gen 3:6a And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise...
Pro 18:21 Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
Gal 5:22-23a But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance:
Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient,
Choose your fruit wisely...
---micha9344 on 12/25/10


Since the only thing I got out of the whole last post you directed to me was the word "sister", then surely it is relationship I am interested in.

Good day.
---Linda on 12/25/10


To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Pick your fruit from the Tree of Life and you'll be Justified in Life... continue to pick your fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of good & evil and you'll remain under the law of the Knowledge of sin, Unjustified !!!
---ShawnM.T. on 12/25/10


-- Linda :

That was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Not just good, not just evil, .--Linda

Sister, You're not desiring a relationship, b/c the only thing that you're desire is going to except is that YOU Linda are right... Why else would you go through all the strife of telling me to argue with the Truth of the very same Scriptures which I've already previously implied as being shared !!!

Good Day
---Shawn.M.T on 12/25/10


Read These Insightful Articles About Affiliate Program


It doesn't say that the knowledge of good and evil is a bad thing. But God told them not to eat of the fruit of that tree. So, their disobedience is what hurt Adam and Eve. The wrong spirit of their disobedience (Ephesians 2:2) also corrupted them so they misunderstood what is truly good and what is truly evil. Therefore, they were worrying, maybe, about if they had clothes on, instead of being concerned about if they were clothed with humility and obedience (c: Now this wrong spirit has people feeling it is evil, for example, to lose a credit card account but ok to kill an unborn person.
---Bill_willa6989 on 12/18/10


Shawn, have it your way. I am not going to sell my soul out to strife. It says what it says. One tree, don't eat the fruit of it, surely die if you do. That was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Not just good, not just evil, but good and evil. Have fun arguing that one right out of Scripture.
---Linda on 12/18/10


For by the law is the knowledge of sin. The sting of death is sin and the strength of sin is the law. Where no law is, there is no transgression. Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace.

The law was good, but sin took occasion by the law, using that which was good to strengthen its power in our lives. Even sin can take the knowledge of good and use it against a man. We are to eat from the tree of life, Christ and His work. If we all focused more on that than trying to prove who we are, there would be no room for much of the strife here. When we desire to be right more than we desire relationship, we are placing our personal convictions above the results of the very gospel we preach.
---Linda on 12/18/10


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.