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Only John 3:16 Salvation

Does John 3:16 give a complete picture of the requirement for salvation, belief alone? If works were required for eternal life, would we be providing part of our own salvation?

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 ---Geraldine on 12/23/10
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aka,
You sectioned out verses 14-26, insinuating that James was contradicting jesus and Paul.

fine.

i do not know how long you have been blogging here, but you will find out that i do not stay in scrums very long.

my salvation does not hang in the balance of my misinterpretation of every word of scripture. jesus care about how i treat others.
---aka on 1/3/11


aka,
You sectioned out verses 14-26, insinuating that James was contradicting jesus and Paul.

BUT, go back to verse 12 and read through to 3:1 (don't stop at verse 26).

2:12 mentions OUR judgment, which can only be the Judgment Seat of Christ. Verse 13 says it can be negative.

3:1 mentions OUR judgment, and notes that it can be strict.

So if the verses immediately before and immediately after your section are teaching about a judgment of rewards, then we have every reason to suppose that James is still speaking of this judgment in verses 14-26.

If that doesn't help, send me a note. I'm jamea3384

notice it's an 'A' and not an 'S' before the numbers
---James_L on 1/3/11


David, my goodness, and I am accused of being out of context. Please pay close attention to Matthew 13 (which was brought up by you in the first place). The seeds mentioned represents the Word of God. For better understanding read verses 18 to 23 off the same chapter.

The ground represents the "heart of man" and if the ground (be reminded again - the heart of man) is not chosen by God to be born of the Spirit, the seeds (the Word) will never take root and the tree will never grow.

It was you who tried referencing Matthew 13 to Romans 9 to your teaching and you have no idea what the seed and ground represents.
---christan on 1/3/11


David, been born again is instant. It is when the Holy Spirit brings life to a person who is dead spiritually, separated from God. It is not something that you recognized or see, it is something that you began to feel in your life that was not there before. It is found in Eph. 1:1. "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons, of disobedience"
It is a spiritual awakening. And is performed by the Holy Spirit not because they ask to be but because of the grace of God.
---Mark_V. on 1/3/11


God placed Jacob and his descendents in a POSITION above Esau...but that position was not salvation, but service.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/11

Very good!!!
---David on 1/3/11




JamesL, i am still not following you. this does not mean i do not understand the context of the single verses that you strung together, it means i have been down that path before and i will not follow you.

You said to keep it in context. Context of what? you went from one verse in James 2 to Romans 4:5-6,2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:13-15, back to James 2:12-13, then verse 14, and finally Jn 3:16, Matt 6:6, 18.

i used all of the context James 2 to follow the concept of works in man and works in the Spirit (fruit) to Gal 5 where it mentions both. This relates to the fruit production through the Spirit in the parable of the seed and the sower.

yours is mens' rewards based and mine is God's plan of salvation based.
---aka on 1/3/11


What is true is that Jacob and God's elect will bear fruits of righteousness because they were born of the Spirit by the will of God.
---christan on 1/2/11

Christan
Can a seed bear fruit?
I have never picked fruit from a seed have you?
I have picked fruit from a tree, a tree that started off being a seed, a seed that grew in the ground (Womb like state) for many months before it produced any fruit.

Point?
Can you show me anywhere in God's creation, plant, animal or human being, where the seed is full grown, in an instant?
Jesus uses the seed in (Matthew 13) for a reason, that reason is was illustrate the Birth process, which begins with a Seed, Gods seed.

Being Born Again is not instant, its a process!
---David on 1/3/11


Malachi 1:1-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Gen25: 23And the LORD said unto her, TWO NATIONS are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels, and the one people shall be stronger than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger.

Based on action of Yehovah-
Malachi-"Words of Yehovah to Israel"
-Two Nations-
Twins
---char on 1/3/11


--Craig, I believe you need to interpret the passages a little better, maybe by getting a Wordstudy Bible to know what the words "Word of faith" means in Romans 10:6-10.-- MarV

Im sorry do you not feel the Bible explains itself well enough? Did God forget some things and man has to fill in the blanks?

Extrabiblical literature is how people are led into deception.
---CraigA on 1/3/11


JamesL "James said that rewards are based on our works. Jesus said we will be rewarded based on our works."

What other rewards can be more precious to you than eternal life in Jesus Christ? Are you implying the more good works one performs, he will have more and better rewards from God?

For a Christian, after he is saved by the grace of God, his works are merely a sign that he's a Christian and told not to boast to the world of how good he is. Because it was not of good works that God saved him but saved to do good works as declared by Paul, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10
---christan on 1/3/11




aka, part 1
Romans 4:5-6 "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"

Paul said righteousness is credited to one who believes and does not work (v. 5)

Verse 6 says righteousness apart from works.

The Greek word translated "apart from" is literally "without"

Faith alone, all by itself, without any consideration of works

But Paul said we will all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, and our works will be tested (2 Cor 5:10)
---James_L on 1/2/11


aka, part 2

1 Cor 3:13-15 says "...fire will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

James speaks of this judgment in 2:12-13. Then in verse 14 he asks: what if a man's work is all burned up, and he is left with only his faith. Can faith by itself save him from losing his rewards? No.

Paul said eternal life comes through faith by itself.

James said that rewards are based on our works.

Jesus said eternal life comes throuh faith by itself. (Jn 3:16)

Jesus said we will be rewarded based on our works. (Matt 6:6, 18)
---James_L on 1/3/11


JamesL, could you please explain that in a different way?

i am not following you.
---aka on 1/2/11


Kathr - "Romans 9 Paul also compares Abraham's two sons, Isaac and Ishmael."

This is precisely the perfect smoke screen you continue to throw to distract readers from the very issue at hand in Romans 9 - which clearly deals with God's Sovereignty, His Election, His creation of the two vessels, the honor and the dishonor.

Where in Romans 9 does Paul teach about Isaac and Ishmael? Where? You simply squeeze in something that has no relevance to the teachings in Romans 9 to make a point that in the first place cannot hold water. Very sad indeed.
---christan on 1/2/11


David, you ask a question "Why does Paul use the example of Jacob in (Romans 9)?"

Clearly the answer is in Romans 9:11, about God's election and not in Matthew 13 or John 14. You totally hate to see it for what Paul says, that the election of Jacob to salvation was unconditional.

By using Matthew 13 and John 14, you give the impression that God elected Jacob because God saw that Jacob was fertile and kept His commandments. This explanation of yours contradict Romans 9:11 and is obviously your own understanding and not that of Paul's teachings (which is from God).

What is true is that Jacob and God's elect will bear fruits of righteousness because they were born of the Spirit by the will of God.
---christan on 1/2/11


Craig, I believe you need to interpret the passages a little better, maybe by getting a Wordstudy Bible to know what the words "Word of faith" means in Romans 10:6-10. And what it means is the gospel of Jesus Christ, which those people heard it, they talked about it but they were not committed to Christ for they had no true faith that only comes from God. That is why the next passages say, "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"
---Mark_V. on 1/2/11


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\\So, what do we do with James 2:14-26? Ignore it...explain it away...forsake the whole Truth.\\
---aka on 12/31/10


What we're supposed to do is read it in context.

Back up to verse 12, which says WE (believers) will be judged by the Law of Liberty. Paul called it the Judgment Seat of Christ, where we will be judged by our works to determine rewards. Compare James to the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus expounded on our works. That sermon is filled with one word - reward.

Verse 14 is saying that faith by itself cannot "save" us from losing our rewards.

But faith by itself does save us from hell.
---James_L on 1/2/11


"God had to choose one man in each Generation to lead his people. In Jacob's generation it was a choice between Jacob and Esau."
Please show us where in the Scripture does it say what you are claiming here.
---christan on 1/1/11


Romans 9 Paul also compares Abraham's two sons, Isaac and Ishmael.

David is correct. In Genesis God told Rebecca, before they were even born, the elder WILL SERVE the younger.

SERVE christian....

God placed Jacob and his descendents in a POSITION above Esau...but that position was not salvation, but service.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/11


Christan
"Why does Paul use the example of Jacob in (Romans 9)?"

In (Matthew 13) the Lord tells a parable about seeds.
Many seeds were sown, but Few took root.
The seed which took root, represent the believer's who are Born Again.
The other seed, which does not take root, represent believer's who will perish.

The fertile ground represents the womb of those who will be Born Again.
The Ground is fertile because they keep the Lord's commandments and God loves them.(John 14:21)
Those in the fertile ground, are predestined to become the Son's of God.

Follow the teaching's of Jesus Christ and not man's interpretation of Paul's letter's, and you will soon find yourself, in that fertile ground.
---David on 1/2/11


"God got to know them in the womb, so that he could make this choice. God had to decide which one was better, to keep the Covenant he made with Abraham." David

David, did God create everything and everyone, including you and I? Your declaration tells me that your god is not the Almighty creator because you say, "God got to know them in the womb...". Really? That the unborn in the womb, God doesn't know?

Is your god omnipotent? Paul declared in Acts 17:26, "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation...." The doctrine here is Predestination.
---christan on 1/1/11


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David, you say -

"Jacob was the son of Isaac, Isaac the Son of Abraham."
And who was Esau? Not the son of Isaac too?

"Abraham's descendants were under an Everlasting Covenant with God."
You will have a problem explaining to Esau and those born of Abraham in the flesh what they are doing in Hades. The Everlasting Covenant are only to those who are born of the Spirit and justified by Faith, just like Abraham, as taught in the Epistles.

"God had to choose one man in each Generation to lead his people. In Jacob's generation it was a choice between Jacob and Esau."
Please show us where in the Scripture does it say what you are claiming here.
---christan on 1/1/11


--Yes, all sinners are responsible to call upon God for the ability to Believe by faith in Jesus Christ.--

Brother, I dont know what version of the Bible youre reading but mine says for us not to look outside of ourselves for the ability to believe. The word of faith is already within us. We just have to place it in Jesus Christ and not in ourselves.

Romans 10:6-11
---CraigA on 1/1/11


God's love for Jacob has nothing to do with Jacob's obedience. ---christan on 12/30/10

Christan
Jacob was the son of Isaac, Isaac the Son of Abraham.
Abraham's descendants were under an Everlasting Covenant with God.

Since Abraham's descendant's were under this covenant, the seed of Abraham were the children of God.
Since they were God's children, God had to choose one man in each Generation to lead his people.
In Jacob's generation it was a choice between Jacob and Esau.

God got to know them in the womb, so that he could make this choice.
God had to decide which one was better, to keep the Covenant he made with Abraham,
And that's why Jacob was predestined to lead God's Children.
---David on 1/1/11


//If works were required for eternal life,//

i could confidently say that 100% of true disciples of Jesus would say the scriptures are Spirit breathed. if they are Spirit breathed, there can be no error in them.

So, what do we do with James 2:14-26? Ignore it...explain it away...forsake the whole Truth.

not only works of man are in scripture, but so is the works of the Spirit (Gal 5).

so, faith without the works of the Spirit is dead just as faith with the works of man is dead.
---aka on 12/31/10


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Craig, you said,
"What are you crying out to God for? the ability to believe by faith in Jesus and for God to grant them repentance?
Yes, all sinners are responsible to call upon God for the ability to Believe by faith in Jesus Christ. The problem they have, is that they don't want to call upon God. God does give that ability to some out of His own Free will, for it is not the will of man but of the will of God. The Old T. law could not save anyone. Man of himself could not keep the law. If man could humble to God and ask for God to give them that faith to believe God would grant it to them, but they don't want to believe, because they love darkness rather then light.
---Mark_V. on 12/31/10


Kath4453, Thanks for your positive response. Jesus was born in order to die. He died for all period. Yes, there are other verses to support the death, burrial and resurrection of the Lord. Here is a brief poem that I wrote: He paid the price that I could not pay, he paid with His life at Calvery. He paid the price that I could not pay, stamped paid in full, at Calvery. Thanks,Jim
---Jim on 12/31/10


"How does someone call upon the name of the Lord before they are born?" - David

Anyone can claim to call on the name of the Lord BUT is his calling with the Faith that came from God? Without Faith from God, the calling is worthless and useless, why? Because it does not please God.

What's missing is true saving Faith that's from God. And if God never loved you like He loved Jacob, you will never receive Faith from Him. Saving Faith cannot be manufactured by the dead and sinful man as some will want you to believe, it's a property of God.

It is when the man is born of the Spirit will He receive Faith, it's a promise from God. Outside of this, the faith you claim to have is definitely not from God.
---christan on 12/31/10


David, that same question can also be asked of those who believe in infant baptism as one's salvation or regeneration.

An Infant cannot call upon God...anymore than an unborn....and to believe one can is NEW AGE Gnosticism!
---kathr4453 on 12/31/10


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"For whosoever call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved " (Rom. 10:13)---Mark_V. on 12/30/10

Mark
I appreciate the time you spent on your post and I do agree with some of what you say, but am curious as to your interpretation of (Romans 10:13) and will leave you with this question.

How does someone call upon the name of the Lord before they are born?

---David on 12/31/10


--Man is responsible to acknowledge before God his inability, and second to cry unto Him for enabling grace. Of himself he can neither repent nor believe. He can neither come to Christ, nor turn from his sins. In like manner, every sinner is responsible to call upon the Lord. His duty is to cry unto God for His enabling power.
---Mark_V

This statement is confusing to say the least. You say its our responsibility to acknowledge our inability and to cry out to God for his power, but then you say we cant come to Christ or repent of our sins of ourselves. Youve just excluded every single person in the world from salvation.

So what exactly are you crying out to God for? the ability to believe in Jesus?
---CraigA on 12/31/10


David 4: Man's responsibility rest upon his natural ability, is witnessed to by conscience and is insisted on throughout the Scriptures. The ground of man's responsibility is that he is a rational creature capable of weighting eternal issues, and that he possess a written Revelation from God, in which his relationship and duty toward the Creator is plainly defined, if he calls to God as he should, God will honor their call, but they don't want to call. You know why?
"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, it does not submit to God's law, "indeed it cannot," and those who are in the flesh cannot please God"
---Mark_V. on 12/31/10


I was taught to put my name in that verse. "For God so loved the world (Jim), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever (Me) believe in Him, should not perish, but have eternal life" Yes, I believe that one can be saved by believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
It is a simple verse. Nothing complicated. God loved the entire world, that if you or I believe in Him, we should not perish, but have eternal life...
---Jim on 12/30/10

Jim that is SOOOOOO true. Thank you for sharing that.

And I believe if you were the ONLY person who would have believed and Received, Jesus would have still died for you.
---kathr4453 on 12/31/10


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John 3:11-16 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen, and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
--
Who so ever I have predestined or whosoever believe?
---char on 12/31/10


Rom9:11-15(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works,but of him that calleth,)It was said unto her,The elder shall serve the younger.As it is written, Jacob have I loved,but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.For he saith to Moses,I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.Malachi 1:1-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.Gen25:23
---char on 12/31/10


David, I will make a few points why God says what He says,
That God does require what is beyond our own power to render is clear from many Scriptures. God gave the Law to Israel at Sinai and demanded a full compliance with it, and solemnly pointed out what would be the consequences of their disobedience (Deut.28). But will you be so foolish as to affirm that Israel were capable of fully obeying the Law? No, because we are told in Romans (8:3) "for what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh"
God gave the law to show us our sins, and the impossibility for us to gain salvation on our own.
---Mark_V. on 12/30/10


David 2: There is no breath in those who are under the law. They are dead in trespasses and sin.
Now Why does God demand of man that which he is incapable of performing? The first answer is that God refuses to lower His standard to the level of sinful man. Being perfect, God must set a perfect standard. And if man is incapable of measuring up to God's standard, where in lies his responsibility? Man is responsible to acknowledge before God his inability, and second to cry unto Him for enabling grace. Of himself he can neither repent nor believe. He can neither come to Christ, nor turn from his sins. In like manner, every sinner is responsible to call upon the Lord. His duty is to cry unto God for His enabling power.
---Mark_V. on 12/30/10


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David 3: If he will do so, "For whosoever call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved " (Rom. 10:13.
All sinners have a duty, just like those in the O.T.
No sinner has within him the power to believe or repent. The second duty of all sinners is to cry out to God for the enabling power. But they love darkness rather the light. They are still unable to save themselves. They need a supernatural act of God to enable them, and God through the Holy Spirit enables them by bringing them to life Eph. 2:1. You said to me,
".
Mark, Your doctrine is hard to understand, because it is not founded on that Truth."
But it is, it is founded on God and not man.
---Mark_V. on 12/30/10


Christen, when we have the Gospel of the Elect trample underfoot the Gospel that leads one to salvation, there is serious problems. You see the Gospel as the Gospel of the Elect, and not the Gospel of Salvation, and with that totally distort Jesus Sacrifice upon the cross, that He died for the sin of the Whole world.
After we come to Christ, Paul certainly tells us WHAT the Church, The Elect in this generation is called for and for what. When you can discern the clear definition of each, you will be able to see one Gospel does not Null and void the other, but actually COMPLIMENTS the other.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/10


John 3:16 isn't a complete picture of salvation, it is a partial fulfillment of Jewish prophecy.

Isa. 9:6a For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:..
---michael_e on 12/30/10


And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son....

For this my son was dead, and is alive again, he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.


This "dead" son reasoned within himself that he had made a mistake in leaving his father and returned to him throwing himself at his mercy.

Obviously the word DEAD here does not mean physically or spiritually COMPLETELY dead. You dont need a dictionary to see that.
---Craig on 12/30/10


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I was taught to put my name in that verse. "For God so loved the world (Jim), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever (Me) believe in Him, should not perish, but have eternal life" Yes, I believe that one can be saved by believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
It is a simple verse. Nothing complicated. God loved the entire world, that if you or I believe in Him, we should not perish, but have eternal life...
---Jim on 12/30/10


//David, you say "And It is God who decides who will be, and who will not be saved. You believe this decision is made without cause, I do not.

Who dares believe God decides anything without cause?
God's ways are not our ways.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
---Donna66 on 12/30/10


"Dead doesnt always mean completely dead." Craig

What? Dictionary defines "dead" as "no longer living, deprived of life." Unless you are rewriting the definition of "dead", you make no sense at all. When Scripture says "dead in sins and trespasses", it refers clearly to the spirit man toward God. One may be still walking in the flesh but before God (who is Spirit), the man totally has no communication with Him whatsoever in his spirit, that's dead.

Luke 15 teaches of God coming for His lost sheep and saving them, and the prodigal son is His sheep and God worked in him to return to Him and repent of His sins. Here lies the graciousness of God to His sheep in salvation.
---christan on 12/30/10


David, you say "And It is God who decides who will be, and who will not be saved. You believe this decision is made without cause, I do not."

You are partly right in the first part, God has already decided and He's not in the process of deciding everyday. The decision was done before the foundations of the world.

Your second part is in contradiction to Romans 9:11, "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth."

God's love for Jacob has nothing to do with Jacob's obedience or anything else he did. To believe otherwise is to say Jacob worked for his salvation.
---christan on 12/30/10


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Kathr, as usual, you have smoke coming out of your mouth and fogging what I say. Let me reiterate clearly about salvation, going to heaven has nothing to do with whether you are a rich man or a poor man.

The teaching of salvation in Matthew 19 by Christ is clear, "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

But for you Kathr, you are saying "with men this is possible". And you continue to mock and reject Election when it is clearly taught in the Scripture. But that is understandable with all the smoke around you.
---christan on 12/30/10


Nowhere in that verse does it say that Jesus was sent to die for our sins.
---barb on 12/29/10

Excellent point, Barb!
And there in lies the problem with Many believer's.
Many believe that Jesus died on the Cross for their sins, to absolve them of their disobedience to God.
The reason Jesus died on the Cross was so man could be reckoned to God.
(Isaiah 59:2)
"Your sins have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

Sin must be removed for Man to be in relationship with God.
Jesus was sacrificed because, he could remove sin, the animal Sacrifice was no longer acceptable to God for this purpose.
(Hebrews 10:4-6)
---David on 12/30/10


Barb, the whole Scripture is all about salvation and not John 3 alone. In fact John 3 reveals and teaches us that unless one is born of the Spirit, he can never see the Kingdom of God, let alone enter. And this is the sole work of the Holy Spirit, not of the man.

But what puzzled me is your comment "Nowhere in that verse does it say that Jesus was sent to die for our sins." This may not have been mentioned in John 3 but it was the very purpose that Christ came into the world as declared in Matthew 1:21,

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Thank God this mission was accomplished!
---christan on 12/30/10


Show me in Scripture where a DEAD man can "quicken" himself. That's the context of John 3.
---christan on 12/28/10

Christan, to be quickened or Born Again is the GIFT of Salvation given to those whom God has Justified FIRST.

Justification is also God alone Justifying the UNGODLY in their UNGODLY state, who believe/repent...both meaning the same thing In Jesus Christ FOR the forgiveness of Sin.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/10


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now to answer the second part faith without works is dead. these works James talked about are no works of the law. yet they are the works of Faith that is because you believe you are saved you start working out the fruits of the Spirit Gal 5: 22 against such things there is NO LAW. LOVE GOD above all and your neighbour as yourself because you believe God saved you and you are saved. simple as that.
---andy3996 on 12/29/10


We need to read the whole chapter of John 3 to get a clear picture of salvation.

John 3:16 tell us that God loved the world so much that He sent his only begotten son that whosover believes in Him should have everlasting life. This means that we have to believe in everything that Jesus taught. Nowhere in that verse does it say that Jesus was sent to die for our sins. Jesus was the Passover Lamb...no sin in Him or on Him.

Jesus clearly tells us in John 18:37 why He came into the world, "for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth".
---barb on 12/29/10


Dead doesnt always mean completely dead.

It can mean "reckoned as dead" as in Luke 15:24.

The son in that parable came to his senses and realized he made an error in sinning against his Father and went back to him. His Father saw him coming and ran to him to embrace him.

Jesus told this parable for a reason. This is exactly how our relationship is with God now. We must repent (come to our senses) about what we have been doing and return to our Father. This is only thru Jesus Christ. And like the father in this parable, God will meet us halfway
---Craig on 12/29/10


Christan and Mark
The reference to the Drowning man is an Analogy.

Can we save ourselves by our works?
No,
But obedience to the Lord does bring us the Favor of God.(John 14:21)
And It is God who decides who will be, and who will not be saved.
You believe this decision is made without cause, I do not.
The Gospels of Jesus Christ support what I say, and do not support what you believe.

Jesus is the Truth, and your doctrine's must be founded on that Truth.
If it is not founded on the Rock, it is founded on the Sand, and we all know what happens to that house.
Mark, Your doctrine is hard to understand, because it is not founded on that Truth.
---David on 12/29/10


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Christan and Mark
The reference to the Drowning man is an Analogy.

Can we save ourselves by our works?
No,
But obedience to the Lord brings us the Favor of God.(John 14:21)
It is God, who chooses as to who will be and who will not be saved.
You believe this decision is made without cause, I do not.
The Gospels of Jesus Christ support what I believe, they do not support what you believe.

Jesus is the Truth, and your doctrine's must be founded on that Truth.
If it is not founded on the Rock, it is founded on the Sand, and we all know what happens to that house.
Mark, Your doctrine is hard to understand, because it is not founded on that Truth.
---David on 12/29/10


John 3:16 tells how we are saved. The letters of the New Testament tells us the result of being saved. We are saved by Grace alone. Works do not add to our salvation. They are the result of our salvation.
---Samuel on 12/29/10


David, the person is not drowning, he is already dead. Dead in sin. He needs to be freed. Christ frees him by giving him new life in Christ. How hard can it be to understand that? You don't want to be dead, you want to have a little air left, you want to contribute a small part, and refuse to admit your depravity. There is nothing you can do to change your own heart when you are lost. There is nothing you can do to see spiritual matters, or ears to hear for Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice and they follow me" the lost don't hear. God has to take you from the darkness into the light. The lost love darkness, they will never leave unless God takes them out. How hard can that be to understand?
---Mark_V. on 12/28/10


Much confusion and disagreement abounds because of a narrow view of salvation.

"Saved" means more than "don't go to hell"

Saved from hell is through faith by itself, whether you have works or not. (Romans 3-4) only to those who believe

Saved from physical death through the resurrection of Jesus (Romans 5) Everyone included, whther saved or not

Saved from sin's control over us (Romans 6) cooperative effort-faith plus works

Saved from losing our rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ (James 2:12-3:1) faith plus works

Saved UNTO an inheritance (Romans 9-11) through enduring suffering
---James_L on 12/28/10


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David, the man is NOT a drowning man waiting to be saved but a DEAD man spiritually. Scripture plainly declares in Ephesians 2:1

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

The keyword to Paul's declaration? DEAD, spiritually DEAD! What can a dead man do to obey God's commands? Jesus declared "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." and "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Show me in Scripture where a DEAD man can "quicken" himself. That's the context of John 3.
---christan on 12/28/10


Faith without works Is dead. God gave His salvation plan, Acts 2 v's 37 - 42, receiving it Is works. More works Is here, he & she ( mankind ), Matt.24 v 13.
---Lawrence on 12/28/10


Christian
Can you show me a Covenant God made with
Man, where obedience is not the requirement to be in that Covenant?


Jesus Christ is the Author of Salvation, and in the passage you quoted from, his answer was "Keep the Commandments", to the question, "What must I do to Gain Eternal Life?"
In(Luke 10:25-27) the same answer is Given to this question.

If a Man is drowning in a lake, can he save himself?
No, but he does aid in the rescue by treading water until help arrives.
Obedience to God is much like a drowning man who treads water, until the Lord's arrives.
(Matthew 24:13) "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
---David on 12/28/10


John 3.16 is deffenately the key, but somewhere else the bible says you believe there is one God, good even demons believe that and they sudder. somewhere else again it is said that faith without works is dead. again the bible sais that they where saved by the belief of their heart and the confession of their mouth. the works required are the works of faith. you believe christ is son of God. then you need to become a child of God. you need to tranform your being in Christ's being do what Christ did. for that we received the holy Spirit.
---andy3996 on 12/28/10


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Scripture is complete. In it we know of God's plan that He has willed and purposed through election that salvation is only from Him. This doctrine was clearly dealt in Matthew 19:25,26 when the discourse of salvation between the rich man and Christ was taught.

---christan on 12/27

so christan, did Jesus tell the rich man that only poor men are teh Elect?

Or did Jesus simply tell the rich man one cannot have two masters?

BUT you have two masters don't you, Calvin and Jesus?
Chriatan, you cannot SERVE God and Calvin too!
---kathr4453 on 12/28/10


DAVID 12/27/10 Are we not save by our FAITH in JESUS CHRIST YES ---------- you do provide part of your salvation.

GALATIANS 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST,that we might be justified by the FAITH of CHRIST, and NOT by works of the law, -------
( We are saved by CHRIST FAITH, not ours, are FAITH is a work )

1 THESSALONIANS 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your WORK of FAITH,----------

( ONCE a person is saved they do good works like having faith )

JAMES 2:26 For as a body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
---RICHARD on 12/27/10


Only Christ can give life(salvation). He is the promised gift that God gave to all mankind. We dont ask for the promise, its already ours. Lets trust and believe in the promise. Thats all we must do.
---duane on 12/27/10


Scripture is complete. In it we know of God's plan that He has willed and purposed through election that salvation is only from Him. This doctrine was clearly dealt in Matthew 19:25,26 when the discourse of salvation between the rich man and Christ was taught.

"When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Keyword here is "with men this is impossible". Outside the grace of God through Faith, man cannot by himself produce saving Faith. The Godly order to salvation is found in Romans 8:28-30.
---christan on 12/27/10


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Many teach that we have nothing to do with our own Salvation.
They must teach this, for if there is a requirement, that requirement would be called "Works".

If what they say is true, everybody will be saved.
If what they say is true, there can be no requirements to be saved.

Are we not saved by our faith in Jesus Christ?
Yes, Faith is a requirement, and if Faith is a requirement of our Salvation, then you do provide part of your own Salvation.

If there were no requirements to be saved, those in the Bible would have answered, "Absolutely Nothing", when they were asked the question, "What must I do to be saved."
But this was not the Answer they Gave, was it?
---David on 12/27/10


Nothing in our repentance and our feeble attempts at obedience, could make us deserving of eternal life.

---Donna66 on 12/24/10

Agreed donna66, even begging for mercy after salvation is not deserving of eternal life either.

Faith is believing and receiving the GIFT of Forgiveness and the gift of HIS Righteousness imputed to us.

But we all must remember we are saved for a purpose. Does a new born stay a new born?

Your initial salvation is only the BEGINNING.
---kathr4453 on 12/27/10


Donna66, Merry Christmas to you and everyone including the moderators who worship Christ everyday.

Second, You and Pharisee gave great answers, he said:

"//Indeed if works provided any merit to us then Christ was crucified for nothing because everyone could do it themselves//"
None can do it themselves.
"Who can say, "I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin"? Proverbs 20:9.
Job 15:14-16 "What is man, that he can be clean? Or he that is born of a woman, that he can be righteous? Behold, God puts no trust in His holy ones, and the heavens are not clean in His sight: how much less one who is abominable and corrupt, a man who drinks iniquity like water?
---Mark_V. on 12/25/10


Pharisee-- Very well said and worth repeating.
//Indeed if works provided any merit to us then Christ was crucified for nothing because everyone could do it themselves//
Nothing in our repentance and our feeble attempts at obedience, could make us deserving of eternal life.

Without doubt, we will repent and do our best to please God, once we realize that the we added virtually nothing to our own salvation.... that ONLY God's GRACE makes it possible! Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.
---Donna66 on 12/24/10


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Yes, John 3:16 gives the one essential truth of salvation. Trouble is, the English word "believe" has many meanings: I believe it may rain: I believe Lincoln was a great president: I believe in good ol' soap and water.

Intellectual belief is not necessarily acted upon. But a person who believes in "soap and water" uses it and trusts it do the job.
Poor analogy tho it may be, the faith that trusts in Jesus to BE and DO what He promises, is saving faith.

This faith is not a "work", but it leads to works such as repentance,prayer, and searching out the Word of God. Faith is not everything a Christian needs to live the Christian life, but it is all he needs to become a Christian.
---Donna66 on 12/24/10


Salvation is participatorial. God says, Here I am, I have salvation, Ask, Seek, Knock. And it is up to the hearer to participate and respond: but if the soul refuses, then God offers his salvation to others to accept.
---Eloy on 12/24/10


John 3:16 is only describing what salvation is, NOT how to obtain salvation. Belief alone will NOT bring salvation, because the Bible says in James that even the devil believes. Belief, confession, and repentance are what is a MUST for salvation - or you are NOT saved. Luke 13:3, Romans 10:9-10, and 1 John 1:9 all talk about this. NO this does NOT mean that we can save ourselves through works, but is what the Bible REQUIRES we do in order to be saved.
---Leslie on 12/23/10


There's a reason all that's said is belief, and it's because a deep conviction as implied by the word pistuo determines action. A deep abiding faith always has works to follow it with no one getting it all right.

Indeed if works provided any merit to us then Christ was crucified for nothing because everyone could do it themselves. It's been said God helps them who help themselves, but the opposite is actually truth. God Helped the Hebrews at the banks of the Red sea, and God helped those in Jesus Christ who couldn't help themselves and would always be stained with sin.
---Pharisee on 12/23/10


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It is wrong to assume that John 3:16 "give a complete picture of the requirement for salvation". It is the most quoted verse from Scripture used to justify "universal atonement", which is far from the truth.

Context of John 3 starts with a Pharisee and Jesus, who foolishly assume that Jews alone were going to obtain salvation. Christ clearly declares to Nicodemus that only those born of the Spirit can see and enter the Kingdom of God. Declareing to Nicodemus in verse 16 that God's people are found all over the world.

The "world" represents God's people in every nation and tribe and does not represent everyone of mankind as taught in "universal atonement".
---christan on 12/23/10


Salvation is paid for by the blood of Jesus.
Sanctifacation is through righteous
growth.
Works are as a result of faithfulness and profitable unto heavenly reward.
Lay up treasures for yourself in Heaven.
God Blesss Paul
---paul on 12/23/10


Jo.3.16 is most sufficient if one were to follow the full depth of meaning.
However Lu.10.25-37.This is a story of a lawyer man asking Jesus how to have eternal life.In plain words Jesus explains the whole truth of the matter of the "how" to have eternal life.
Note:Jesus in various places said if we do not forgive then we will not be forgiven.This 'mercy" parallels when the samaritan forgave (showed mercy)on) the jew for his racial hatred toward samaritans and gave aid to the broken down jew by the roadside.Samaritans were racially hated by the jews and were thought of as 2nd. class citizens by the jews.
This is the "gospel truth" of how to have eternal life
---earl on 12/23/10


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