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Miss The Traditional Church

Does anyone else miss the traditional church?

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 ---Doris on 1/3/11
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First the Statues mentioned are in the innermost Holy of Holies and cannot be seen by anyone except the high priest once a year. They are not Icons or relgious pictures used for worship. Now the passage of Exodus 26:37 is quoted. But that is describing the pillar that hold up the tent. Not a relgious image.

These do not allow the use of statues where people pray and light candles in front of them. So this is a misuse of the passages.
---Samuel on 1/19/11


So Ignatius the wall decorations, door decoration and floor decorations. Some of which will never be seen by the majority of people allows you to make a statment that Using images as the focus of worship is fine?

That does not seem to match. By the way how many images do you see used in a Jewish church as the focus of prayer instead of GOD. How many intermediaries do I need instead of GOD alone?

I only need one and He is both GOD and Man.
---Samuel on 1/19/11


It is not wise to pretend to be of God when you lack understanding of Him and His ways.

You talk big, but seldom use Scripture, as do teachers whom God has trained.

"Teachers" who disdain truth as you do, speak and teach from their own hearts, and thus have nothing to do with God. Here is your warning.

Num 15:39 . . . after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Eze 6:9 . . . their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols:

Psa 73:27 . . . thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.
---aservant on 1/19/11


a servant.

Kissing sacred Items to show veneration/respect was and is part of Judaism. A pious Jew kisses the Mezuza on his door post, he kisses his prayer shawl before putting it on, he kisses the tallenin, before he binds them to his forehead, and arm. He kisses the Torah before he reads it in the Synagogue. No doubt, Christ did likewise, when reading the Scriptures in the Synagogue, as this would have been a common practice in his day.

Kissing is a sign of veneration/honor/respect/affection and does not equate worship (idolatry).

Learn, before you teach.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 1/19/11


Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

God is enraged because you ignite His jealousy when you worship and slobber all over your icon. Then you fan the heat of His jealously when you defend your sinful icon worship, proving that you love your sin more than you love God as He commanded.

Mat 22:37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.

Does this sound like you are supposed to have some love leftover to display on your icon?

Learn before you teach.
---aservant on 1/19/11




Cluny, Ignatius and Leej, why aren't you using scripture to prove your point? It looks like Servant backs up everything he says with scripture. Please don't use your church tradition to prove it, USE SCRIPTURE!
---Betty on 1/19/11


Deceivers try to misdirect. None of the references you cited re the statues and icons show anyone to be kissing the object.

I have already shown that kissing is not a sin.

Still on the page are those Scriptures that show your sin. Making an icon is the sin. Worhiping that icon by kissing it is the sin. Both of those sins are what you are teaching by your wicked witness.

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words . . .

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not

Final comment: Learn before you teach.
---aservant on 1/19/11


As one simple pious soul said, "Were it a picture of a demon or pagan entity, of course it would be an idol. But how can a picture of a holy person represent anything BUT holiness."
---Cluny on 1/19/11


"Learn, before you teach." (aservant)

You should take your own evidence aservant. First you equate kissing with worship (Idolatry) and then now you are saying "well it is not worship when kissing your loved ones". Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

Interestingly enough, we find evidence that Old Testament Jewish liturgical services involves Holy Icons and Statues ((Ex. 25:18, Ex. 26:1,37, 1st Kings 6:23,29,32, 1st Kings 7:29,36). Holy Icons enriched the Tabernacle and then later in the Temple. The Second Commandment forbid making a image AND worshiping it (the LXX makes this clear), not a condemnation of all images.

Learn, before you teach.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/19/11


a servant,

Do you have pictures of your loved ones or a driver's license? Using your logic, it is idolatry even to have pictures of your loved ones , even pictures of your pets and carrying a picture license.

The Greek Translation of the Old Testament (LXX) (used almost exclusively by Jesus, & the Holy Apostles) render Exodus 20:4-5 as referring to Idols specifically ("eidoloi") and the Hebrew word "pesel" (graven images) is never used in reference to any of the images in the temple. So clearly the reference here is to pagan images rather than images in general.

Learn, before you teach. Use common sense, please. Be consistent with your arguments. You are making contradictory remarks.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 1/19/11




\\Learn, before you teach.
---aservant on 1/19/11\\

I was about to tell you that myself.
---Cluny on 1/19/11


\\Whether statue or icon you are kissing (worshiping) an item created by man. God calls that worship polluted." (a servant).\\

Are Jews guilty of idolatry when the kiss the tzitzit, Torah, mezuzah, and the like?

Or is it only CHRISTIANS who are guilty of idolatry when they kiss those things that bring their hearts up to God?
---Cluny on 1/18/11


Exo 20:4 Never make your own carved idols or statues that represent any creature in the sky, on the earth, or in the water. (GW)

Exo 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.

The icons you worship are man-made, thus they are polluted, as is your worship of them.

The Bible shows many examples of kissing loved ones: Gen 27:26, Gen 29:11, Gen 31:55, Rth 1:14, Son 1:2,

Your sin is kissing a man-made icon, in opposition to what God commanded.

Learn, before you teach.
---aservant on 1/19/11


Deu 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Deu 4:17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
Deu 4:18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Deu 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
---aservant on 1/19/11


"Whether statue or icon you are kissing (worshiping) an item created by man. God calls that worship polluted." (a servant).

If kissing equals worship (or Idolatry) then the Holy Apostles were idolaters since they commanded the Early Christians to greet each other with a "holy kiss" (Romans 16:16).

Sorry, but what equate idolatry is the intention (heart) of the individual.

Kissing Holy Icons is no more idolatry than the practice of kissing the Bible or kissing the picture of a departed loved one (this is common in many Protestant churches).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/18/11


"I think I've been making this point to you and Ignatius several times." (John)

Yes, and we have been telling you how ludicrous your statement is.

Sorry John, but I think it is time for you to find a new hobby and stop being on a computer ranting about the same story.

FYI, who is pagan, but you, since you believe in the existences of other "pagan gods"? You also do things that pagan do, like praying.

But in any case, keep it up John. I love it when you spread lies about Cluny and I.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 1/18/11


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\\Can I kiss the Holy Bible since I find in it, the words of life?

Or would I become guilty of idolatry?

How about genuflexing before the altar, is that also wrong?

Certainly we must not mistake adoration of what is holy for idolatry.
---leej on 1/18/11\\

"Respect" or "honor" might be a better word than "adoration."

As I mentioned elsewhere, Orthodox venerate the Gospel book all the time.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


Can I kiss the Holy Bible since I find in it, the words of life?

Or would I become guilty of idolatry?

How about genuflexing before the altar, is that also wrong?

Certainly we must not mistake adoration of what is holy for idolatry.
---leej on 1/18/11


\\Whether statue or icon you are kissing (worshiping) an item created by man\\

Not with the worship of LATREIA that belongs to God alone.

And if you deny this distinction, then when you kiss your loved ones you are worshipping them.

John, all you are doing is making another deposit into the heavenly bank accounts of Ignatius and me. Keep it up.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


-1-
Whether statue or icon you are kissing (worshiping) an item created by man. God calls that worship polluted.

KJV Is 44:
9They that make a graven image are all of them vanity, and their delectable things shall not profit, and they are their own witnesses, they see not, nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing? 11Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up, yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together.
---aservant on 1/18/11


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What's your point?
---Cluny on 1/17/11
THE POINT IS YOU'RE A HERETICAL PAGAN RITUALISTIC CHURCH!

Claimng to be the orginal church. PLEASE!!!

I think I've been making this point to you and Ignatius several times.
---John on 1/18/11


\\I'm sorry, instead of saying statues I meant icons. I have family members that attend the Orthodox church. They kiss icons. Since it is the practice of the church why don't you kiss icons?\\

I didn't say I didn't kiss icons. I said that contrary to your false accusation, I didn't kiss STATUES.

Yes, we kiss icons. We also kiss the Gospel, the Cross, the priest's hand, the chalice (in some places), and each other.

The priest and deacon kiss their vestments before they put them on.

Only practical reasons keep us from kissing the censer.

What's your point?
---Cluny on 1/17/11


Betty-

Statues are not in general use in Orthodoxy (although to be fair, one can find some of them in western rite Orthodoxy, but that is another story), so Orthodox Christians do not kiss statues. You would have know this if you had any clue what Orthodoxy is.

On this note, I have witness many Protestant Christians (i.e., Baptist and Pentecostals in particular) kiss the front of the Bible or the inside pages of it. Many Christians and Non-Christians show revenance to their departed loved ones by kissing their pictures. And America has huge statues in honor of dead people (like the Abraham Lincoln memorial).

Are these examples of Idol Worship Betty?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/17/11


"God is really apposed to men taking trees and wideling the branchs down to an image and then worshipping it" (betty)

But who does that? Have you witness any Eastern Orthodox Christian during that? If so, Who? Where? Which canonical Orthodox parish/jurisdiction? Have you seen any Latin or Eastern Catholic during that? If so, Who? Where? Which Catholic parish? Was the parish Priest aware of this Idolatry? What about a Protestant Christian?

I want details please. Don't leave anything out.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 1/17/11


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I'm sorry, instead of saying statues I meant icons. I have family members that attend the Orthodox church. They kiss icons. Since it is the practice of the church why don't you kiss icons?
---Betty on 1/17/11


Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
---micha9344 on 1/17/11


\\Cluny, please explain why you kiss statues of Mary or any other saints. Wouldn't that be idol worship?\\

There's nothing for me to explain, since I don't kiss statues of anybody. You're using a straw man argument--and you should explain why you are doing so.

Orthodoxy doesn't use statues, anyway.
---Cluny on 1/17/11


Cluny, please explain why you kiss statues of Mary or any other saints. Wouldn't that be idol worship? God is really apposed to men taking trees and wideling the branchs down to an image and then worshipping it. Please read the Old Testament.
---Betty on 1/17/11


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//And the native Christians who have lived in Jerusalem since the times of the Apostles ARE Orthodox.

The Orthodox church of today can only trace its origin to a time when the patriarches of Constantiople had powers under the rule of the Emporers.

Noting that the Corinthian church had problems with spiritual gifts, the Thessalonian church with whether the resurrection had already occurred, there is simply no way we can identify any denomination with the early churches of the first 3 centuries, some - the Jewish churches, still following in the Mosaic tradition.
---leej on 1/13/11


What is traditional? People use to not sit down during church. A personal Bible was not created until 1600 with printing press. Stain glass windows did not appear until middle ages. Do not confuse cultural changes with changes in reverance and worship. Singing Holy, Holy, Holy at 1 beat per min. for the 10,000 time while you are trying not to fall asleep, is not worship. Worship is unexplainable love, joy, passion for God. If you find that in slow hymns go all out. i love hymns but you have to pick up the pace.
---Scott on 1/13/11


Cluny: The Orthodox church is descended from the originl church, yes.

The question is whether there have been changes over the 20 centuries in what it believed.

I cannot say, but it is possible that it is only 'a descendant' not the original
---peter3594 on 1/13/11


\\The Orthodox church is NOT the original church. it is Jersualem Church of before 70 AD. when the romans came and ransacked the entire city of Jerusalem nothing was left whole, also nothing left of the ORIGINAL CHURCH.\\

And the native Christians who have lived in Jerusalem since the times of the Apostles ARE Orthodox.

So yes, Orthodoxy IS the original Church.
---Cluny on 1/10/11


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\\they emphasize the traditional rather than the Bible!\\

Not true. The Bible is part of Tradition.

||Are you saying the preacher IS the point of worship in other than the orthodox church?
---Donna66 on 1/8/11
||

What do you think? What has your own experience shown you?

**Not quite sure what you are saying?

Is it that a "preacher", not being a priest with apostolic succession, does not have valid authority, be it disciplinary, teaching or pastoral?**

I'm saying that the sermon is NOT the point of true Apostolic-framed worship.

However, in Orthodoxy, anyone who is delegated by the Bishop may preach, but preaching is chiefly the Bishop's, duty.
---Cluny on 1/9/11


The Orthodox church is NOT the original church. it is Jersualem Church of before 70 AD. when the romans came and ransacked the entire city of Jerusalem nothing was left whole, also nothing left of the ORIGINAL CHURCH. The RCC takes authority from Peter who supposedly should have lived in Rome at the end of his life, but fact is that EVERY church is the result of apostolic succesion from who else would we have received it if not the apostles who speak to us up to today in the New Testament? and everyone can claim supremacy for whatever reason. but i claim supremacy in Christ alone. because who is the orthodox, RCC Protestant reformed baptist charismatic? if not a servant OF CHRIST.
---andy3996 on 1/10/11


What do you mean by "Traditional"? The Catholic/Eastern Orthodox churches are the MOST traditional. In fact, they emphasize the traditional rather than the Bible! If there is a question of faith or practice, they will go with tradition. Very little of their religious worship or rituals can be found in scripture or early Church practice. Be aware! Find a church that trusts ONLY in the Bible for salvation because that's what Jesus told us. John 14:6
---Lynn on 1/9/11


O.K., then in a situation like this I suppose the best thing to do is to agree to disagree & continue to follow God the best we each know how, until HE shows us to do differently. I apologize if my way of worship offends you in any way. So far, I don't feel that it's offending God, however, if He shows me differently I will not hesitate to stop. I want to please the LORD in all I do, Especially in the way i worship Him.
---Reba on 1/8/11


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cluny--//the preacher is not the point of traditional Apostolic Christian worship.//

Are you saying the preacher IS the point of worship in other than the orthodox church?
---Donna66 on 1/8/11


If you mean a conservative church, you can still find one to attend. Look in the yellow pages of the phone book, under "Churches", they are usually grouped together by different kinds, like "Christian" or other kinds. I think "Baptist" denomination is conservative. But it really depends on the preacher of the church whether or not it is "traditional". You could visit one or two every Sunday until you find one that you like.
---Eloy on 1/9/11


Cluny ... "Maybe because, in one case, the preacher is not the point of traditional Apostolic Christian worship" Not quite sure what you are saying?

Is it that a "preacher", not being a priest with apostolic succession, does not have valid authority, be it disciplinary, teaching or pastoral?

Or are you saying thet we should not pray for pastors, be they priests, elders, preachers or ministers?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/9/11


\\How could praying for & with others & encouraging the preacher offend God?
---Reba on 1/8/11\\

Maybe because, in one case, the preacher is not the point of traditional Apostolic Christian worship.
---Cluny on 1/8/11


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The REAL question is does this practice offend God? Cluny, How could praying for & with others & encouraging the preacher offend God?
---Reba on 1/8/11


\\Seriously though Cluny, does things done in the worship service like alter call & Amen corners offend you?\\

I never said it did. The REAL question is does this or that worship practice offend God.

\\ You react as though it does offend you.\\

Where have I done so? Be specific.

\\ No one is saying that the Bible tells us to do those things. It's just part of the way we worship & reverence God.\\

Then make sure in the future you don't condemn Roman Catholics or Orthodox for doing things you think are not in the Bible.
---Cluny on 1/8/11


I accidentally left out the letter "B" out of the word Bible in one of my posts. Sorry about that. I hate doing that to such an important word.:-{ Especially when it turns into such a disgusting word in it's place. I apologize for not checking the spelling better.
---Reba on 1/7/11


It could be that Cluny has a religious spirit. It can happen in any church or person that exalts themselves higher than other's in the Kingdom of God.
---Betty on 1/7/11


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I didn't know you had cats. I haven't read those posts where you made mention of them.Who knew? Cluny's human after all. Not just an encyclopedia typing out mean msg's to people. (Sorry, just joking again. I realize it's difficult for you to recognize when someone's joking). Seriously though Cluny, does things done in the worship service like alter call & Amen corners offend you? You react as though it does offend you. No one is saying that the Bible tells us to do those things. It's just part of the way we worship & reverence God. He tells us to keep the Sabbath day Holy & that, sometimes, can be part of the service. If it does offend you, please tell us why.
---Reba on 1/7/11


It's not called, ALTER CALL in the Bible but the bible does tell us to pray for others. James 5:16 is one place. & you'll never find the words AMEN CORNER in the Bile but the Bible does tell us to strengthen( or encourage) each other. Luke 22:32 is one place. All through the Bible the LORD tells us to pray to Him, pray for others, encourage one another in the LORD... that's all that we're doing when we say "Amen to what the preacher is saying & we go to the alter to pray alone or with someone. It's not a "ritual". It's Children of God, worshipping their God.
---Reba on 1/7/11


Cluny, where did Jesus say to make icons, where did Christ say to light candles for the saints. before judging protestants you should realise that a desire to return to the first church gathering and braking bread in simplicity without all pomp of the "traditional churches" caused the entire reformation. that pentecostalism is a return to that first pentecostal-experience in the upper room. All forms of church srvice today ALL are not found in the bible. but as with Jesus they do respond on todays need. except your type of CLUNYortodoxy who refused any development, good luck in your personal orthodox heaven you'll be very lonely up there.
PS Your church probably doesn't use microphones because the bible did'nt mention it.
---andy3996 on 1/7/11


on the lighter side, i grew up in a traditional pentecostal church, what i miss is the sometimes extatic prophecies and the frantic dances (i grew up in a church thatt jumped and turned like in an old full baptecostal afro-american church, only they where all whites living in europe, it's when i grew up that i discovered we where the only ones free enough to express our feeling in the entire Belgium
---andy3996 on 1/7/11


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\\Pet a puppy or a kitten,\\

In case you've not noticed, I've made reference to my two cats who frequently wake me up in the morning.

\\ life can be good if you give it half a chance. You know, have a little fun...(oh, excuse me,) FUN: something providing amusement or enjoyment..:-D\\

And this relates to making up non-Biblical rituals just how?
---Cluny on 1/7/11


FOR GOODNESS SAKE CLUNY, LIGHTEN UP WOULD'JA! Of course I know these things are NOT in the Bible, that's the whole point of saying some things are done out of care for one another.DUH!!! I think you take things way too seriously, try smiling occasionally. Think good thoughts. Pet a puppy or a kitten, life can be good if you give it half a chance. You know, have a little fun...(oh, excuse me,) FUN: something providing amusement or enjoyment..:-D
---Reba on 1/6/11


\\"Going to the alter & praying with others" Cluny, are you saying things are not in the Bible as a joke? \\

You don't actually think this Protestant ritual IS in the Bible, do you?

Remember, YOU are the ones playing "Sola Scriptura," not I.

I'm just trying to ensure you play by your own rules.
---Cluny on 1/6/11


cluny, you just don't have anything nice to say to anyone do you? "I'll stick with the old stuff" was written about 8 years ago. There really is "Old stuff" and I will stick with it. It works everytime.
---shira3877 on 1/6/11


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"Going to the alter & praying with others" Cluny, are you saying things are not in the Bible as a joke? It's hard to tell. Surely you're aware that some things are done out of human compassion & concern. General support of another Christian or someone struggling. Please tell me these comments of yours are in fun,tongue in cheek, sort of thing. You're like the little pesty brother who just picks,picks,picks at his siblings for his kicks. Is that you? & in case you're wondering, yes I'm teasing you. I do mean what I'm saying, but it's all in fun.
---Reba on 1/6/11


\\They were there to pray with the ones who came down to the alter too.
---Reba on 1/5/11\\

That's something else that's nowhere in the Bible.
---Cluny on 1/6/11


Donna, my church doesn't do that and I wish they would. My pastor said it was not part of the covenant. I know that already but Jesus tells us to do it. It is a type of servanthood. A very humbling experience....cluny, I am happy you are what you want to be.. which tells me nothing.
---shira3877 on 1/6/11


\\I'll stick with the old stuff, it works everytime\\

That's why I'm Orthodox.
---Cluny on 1/5/11


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I have never heard of Amen Corners before, but my church has its "Ameners." I am one of them.

As for evening and mid-week services, we have so many ministries reaching out to the community, and Bible studies for women and men, there is little time for those types of services.
---Trish9863 on 1/5/11


Cluny, No one said that the A men corner was in in the Bible. It's just the way some of the churches chose to worship. I personally find it refreshing to see some of the men gathering together in the church to support & encourage the preacher. They were there to pray with the ones who came down to the alter too.
---Reba on 1/5/11


shira3877-- I know Jesus said that, (about foot washing) and I've wondered why more churches don't do it. I've never attended a church that did on any regular basis, however, I've been to a few "foot washings". It does eliminate pride (at least tempoarily).
I never mind washing someone else's feet...but oooh...having someone wash mine is hard to take!
---Donna66 on 1/5/11


Yes. And I do know what the amen corner is. It was not really biblical but its ok to have one. We are not forbidden to not have one. I miss everyone coming together,holding hands around the altar. Or kneeling at the altar, praying together and really crying out to God for our needs. I also miss mothers(elderly/older women) teaching young girls and young married women in the church how to conduct themselves,how to dress etc... They also acted like christians and looked like christians. There was also examples for young men and boys to follow.Even the toddlers were trained in the ways of God. They had their own little bibles and taken to the altar. Even at those young ages! Hallelujah! Those were the days.
---Robyn on 1/5/11


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This is a great question. I also miss the fellowship(the family feeling among the church members) we use to have. We would eat together, laugh and have fun after church and between services. Drink coffee/snacks etc... Then go in to the sanctuary ready to really praise our Lord and Saviour. Everyone felt the love and was concerned about each other. We were a real family.
I miss the testifying in church also. Members/visitors would stand(one by one) and thank God for what he had done in our lives. We could choose to sing a song first, if we wanted to. Those times are gone. Maybe forever.
---Robyn on 1/5/11


\\there is a reason Jesus told us to wash feet. BUT no one ever does it.\\

Where did you get that idea?

It's done all the time in Orthodox and the other pre-reformation Apostolic churches, though it's more as a liturgical drama.

\\ I'll stick with the old stuff, it works everytime\\

I stick with the old stuff. That's why I'm Orthodox.
---Cluny on 1/5/11


Amen, Cluny.
---aka on 1/5/11


When I was growing up in Atlanta, Ga our church had an amen corner. We also washed feet. there is a reason Jesus told us to wash feet. BUT no one ever does it. I'll stick with the old stuff, it works everytime. People are too proud to humble themselves today. Pride, Pride, Pride
---shira3877 on 1/5/11


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"Amen corners" are modern traditions and precepts of men. You won't find them anywhere in the Bible.

"Old stuff" was new when it was first written.
---Cluny on 1/5/11


no, i am orthodox by proxy.

however, when i was a young boy, i loved going to mass everyday because that was my only sanctuary from the beating i would get from the other Catholic boys (i was poor.)

now, i am still poor still take a beating, but I found sanctuary in the Word because the Catholics got silly and made the Word public.

(aside - the Catholic religion is not equal to Orthodoxy.)
---aka on 1/4/11


Does anyone here remember the "Amen Corner"? Where some of the men of the church would set over to one side together & amen the preacher? It was usually seen in the smaller, more old-fashioned Baptist Churches. But I'm sure other denominations had them as well. I really miss that. I haven't seen that since I was a child, over 30 years ago. Does anyone know of a church that still has this?
---Reba on 1/4/11


My traditional church is spiritual music, bible preaching, seeing sinners saved..being in one accord. Of course, others will tell what their traditional church is. there is a song called "I'll stick with the old stuff" sang by the Phillips and Rochesters. I will stick with the old stuff.
---shira3877 on 1/4/11


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Elder-- Yes,people worked hard and didn't leave home as often (except for work).
And that is probably why it was easier for people to attend mid-week or Sun. eve services. But humans, being as they are, I'll bet they still had plenty of time to "condemn and fight".
---Donna66 on 1/4/11


what i miss in church is
1 the union of the saints. everything is too individual nowadays.
shown in the fact that mostly the poor, orphan, and widdow are no longer supported, and the fact that you only see certain believers when they have a problem.
2 the ireverence of some, shown in loud speaking before the service eating biscuits and apples during preaching and etcetera. but i don't think its a today's problem. it's been a problem since the beginnings. only because of the individual culture its shown better today.basically the problem is found often times with the pastor of the church who is too loose and free. some preach nowadays in a bermuda and t-shirt. as the pastor as the church.
---andy3996 on 1/4/11


My church preaches the Word of God, and praises Him in worship. We have a food pantry for the poor, and participate in an interfaith homeless ministry. We have a daycare ministry. We have two Women's Bible Studies, and a very active Youth Ministry. I do not miss a thing. Too busy serving the Lord to miss whatever you are asking about.
---Trish9863 on 1/3/11


No,

Orthodoxy IS the One, Holy, Catholic ("universal"), Apostolic, and Traditional Church of the Bible. My parish is full canonical communion with the other traditional Orthodox churches (primarily the Churches of Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Constantinople, and Moscow and all Orthodox churches in communion with them).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/3/11


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I miss the quiet reverence that used to be found in church. I don't mean formality as in liturgical churches. But loud talk in the sanctuary before church, doesn't set the right tone, to me. It's probably odd, but I still tend to whisper when conversing in the pew.

In some churches congregants now drink coffee in the pews. I understand the desire to make people feel comfortable (and I'm an avid coffee drinker) but somehow I like to think of church as a special place...the house of God! I WANT worshipping Him in church to be different from worshipping Him in my bathrobe at home.
---Donna66 on 1/3/11


No.

That's because I'm a member of the pre-denominational traditional church--Orthodoxy.
---Cluny on 1/3/11


I know what you mean Doris. some of the churches today have even stopped having a night service. I remember as a child going to revival services 2 weeks long. These days it's
rare to even hear of a 3 day revival going on. Especially on a yearly basis. The alter call for prayer is also quickly becoming a thing of the past. It's sad to me to see so many churches fall so far from the old ways that showed so much respect & love for God.
---Reba on 1/3/11


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