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Why Mary Mother Of Jesus

Why would God ask Mary to be Mother of Jesus, then also make her mother of others?

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 ---ponderer on 1/6/11
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Ponderer: and why not make her mother of others?
---Mike on 1/15/11


Here is an exposing truth.
Some people believe Mary was a perpetual virgin now if such be the case then there was no marriage between Mary and Joseph. Why was there no marriage? Because the marriage was never consummated. Anyone care to answer that argument?
---mima on 1/15/11


\\John * "And Joesph did not have relation with Mary U-N-T-I-L
Jesus was born." \\

The same Greek particle--EOS--is used in Matthew 28. "Lo, I am with you always, even EOS the end of the world."

If EOS in Mt 1 means that Joseph and Mary had marital relations after the birth fo Jesus, then EOS in the same Gospel means that at the end of the world, Jesus will no longer be with us.

Furthermore, Mt 1 refers to "Judah and his brothers", even though there were FOUR mothers involved.
---Cluny on 1/14/11


Gen 8:7 " and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth U-N-T-I-L the water had dried up from the earth." The Raven did not start flying After the water dried!
---Ruben on 1/14/11
No it STOPPED flying. It flew UNTIL the water dries. She was a virgin UNTIL Jesus was born. YOU PROVE MY POINT!. And they were together for at least 12 yrs. for Joseph to keep his hands off her. Pretty good!

Please prove your bizarre statement on Aramaic. Not worth a reply from me.
---John on 1/14/11


John * And since Josephus writings were in Aramaic and not Greek. That blows the RCC/Ortho concocted theory that in "Greek" brothers" means "cousins".

In Aramaic, there was no word for cousins, relative. Guess what word he would had use..hint 'brother'

John * "And Joesph did not have relation with Mary U-N-T-I-L
Jesus was born."

Gen 8:7 " and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth U-N-T-I-L the water had dried up from the earth." The Raven did not start flying After the water dried!
---Ruben on 1/14/11




Many Jewish boys named Joshua had brothers and sisters, I don't understand the question.

What restrictions have you've placed on the creator anyway?

To quote God talking to Job,
"where were you when I created the world."
---larry on 1/13/11


Jn 4:22-True Worshippers-
Jn18:14-It is the Holy Spirit's work to glorify Christ

I do not believe Yehovah Asked Mary to be the Mother-He chose her.
Devil continues to distract---but--stay focus.
Yehovah order is for His purpose-perfect plan of salvation.
The beautiful plan of divine ordering line of Kings and the Line of Lords through Soloman and Nathan-united.(NO-OTHER given this title).
Mary-tribe of Judah and Levites.Mat2:6,Micha5:2,

Christ alone is King of All kings and Lord of ALL Lords.
Why--Yehovah Word-Lords and Master over-covers.
Rev 17:14They that are with Him are Called and Chosen.
---char on 1/13/11


NOT chosen for...
1.Prayed to--prayer to Mary starts out...Hail Mary...
-but Jesus instructs prayer to the Father-Mat 6:9-14,(5:27adultery/idolotry)
2. Her name-NOT most powerful name-Already given ONE.Jn 10:25-30,Jn 15:16 compared to(PPM) Perpetual Prayer to Mary-"O Mother of Perpetual Help,grant that I may ever invoke Thy MOST POWERFUL NAME..."
3.Not our savior- Is45:21,Hs 13:4,Lk2:11,Jn4:42(PPM-"The salvation of the dying O purest Mary")
4.We are not instructed to call upon her name.
(PPM-prayer of Perpetual Help) "I shall never cease to call on thee repeating THY Sacred name..."
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Repent-Remitted Lk24:45-47
---char on 1/13/11


micha9344* Ruben
It is clearly defined in scripture that Lot was his 'brother's son'-Gen 14:12, so we understand that when it says 'brother' refering to Lot, it means 'relative'.

But the word 'brother' is not always define, example Jhn 20:17 "Go instead to my brothers and tell them,"


micha9344* Now may I see where it is clearly defined that these brothers and sisters were of some other relation rather than siblings

Sure Mark 6:3"the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, Simon?"

Then In Matthew 27:56 Mary the mother of James and Joseph," also Mark 16:1 "Mary the mother of James, and Salome " and finally Luke 24:10 "Mary the mother of James, and the others"
---Ruben on 1/13/11


It says, "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

Part of Jesus being our High Priest is that He has gone through things that we do, on this earth, so that now He our Groom can feel for us and help us deal with all that got Him through it all. So, it makes sense that Jesus grew up in a family with brothers and sisters, so that He has been through family things and now He can minister for us to do well in family relating.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/13/11




Do you fear God? Who are you to query God? I assume that you are not aware that it is bad to query God. Does anybody query you for doing what is legal and godly with your own properties? God made Mary, HE did what pleased HIM with her life.
---Adetunji on 1/13/11


Leon-- Thanks for your response. I did not mention jealousy anywhere, nor did I think about it.
His brothers thought Him "mad"(crazy).The townspeople in Nazareth, I think, simply thought He was "too big for His britches"...because they remembered his childhood years.

Yes, He probably WAS "Uncle Jesus" to somebody, since he was the eldest. Maybe the children who wanted to be near Him were nieces and nephews and their friends.

I've thought about the wedding the same way as you.
And, yes, it may have been instrumental in James' and Judes' later faith. Water into wine...pretty hard to ignore.
---Donna66 on 1/12/11


Mary had Jesus by virgin birth to escape the sin of Adam so that he would be perfect. We also know that Joesph lived at least 12 years with Mary as his wife. Children are a blessing especially in those times. Why cant they have children together? Your question sounds like a curse.
---Scott on 1/12/11


Rod4Him, Hope you find a rare scroll in some cave in Quram :)

Have fun!!!
---John on 1/12/11


R4H: Yes -- that's what I'm talking about! My eyes were opened to Ahithophel a few years ago. No doubt (in my mind) grandpa was very bitter about how King David had openly disrespected him & his family by 1. committing adultery with his grandaughter & 2. having Batsheba's husband killed in battle. Therefore, he subsequently became a key player in Absalom's rebellion against his father David.

I believe connecting dots like this leads to a clearer understanding of the who, what, when, where & WHY of Scripture. The "family connections" (genealogies, Gen.-Rev.) are key to accurately understanding the Bible. Thx!
---Leon on 1/12/11


Donna: I agree wholeheartedly! But, I think it was moreso from embarrasment rather than jealousy...maybe a liberal mixture of both. :)

Regarding Jesus' siblings, I "speculate" it was at the wedding for one of them (a sister or brother) where He turned water into wine. As an aside, wrap your mind around this: Jesus may've ultimately become an uncle. :)

Anywho, as the elder brother Jesus would've been in charge of making provisions for the wedding party & guest. This may explain why Mary urgently came to Him about the dilemma of running out of wine. Remembering the wedding event of Jesus' miracle may've later been instrument in at least two of his brothers (James & Jude) becomming his followers.
---Leon on 1/12/11


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Hey, don't forget the sisters! Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

The were offended because they know the entire family of Jesus. They could not believe that He was as special as He or His followers taught that He was.
They probably said the Aramaic equivalent of "Just who does he think he IS, anyway?" or "Who died and left HIM in charge?"
---Donna66 on 1/12/11


Leon, it the arena of connecting dots, did you know that King David's Bathsheba was the granddaughter of his counselor, who turned against David later on? Not very smart on David's part, besides murder and adultery.
---Rod4Him on 1/12/11


Oh, Ruben...
It is clearly defined in scripture that Lot was his 'brother's son'-Gen 14:12, so we understand that when it says 'brother' refering to Lot, it means 'relative'.
It also shows a bond between these two.
Now may I see where it is clearly defined that these brothers and sisters were of some other relation rather than siblings in order to understand that 'brothers' and 'sisters' only mean 'relatives'?
Obviously, Mat 12:46-50 doesn't show such a bond...
---micha9344 on 1/12/11


MarkV, your post on 1/9/11 was great! I really enjoyed it.
I do have a question though..
//but Christians refute the Arian and Socinian view that this implies that Christ is the first of created beings and hence not eternal.
---Mark_V. on 1/9/11 //

CAn you explain this part for me? I am not quite getting what you mean here.
Thank you !!
---ginger on 1/12/11


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At your service R4H! Pv. 27:17

I also love it when God, the Holy Spirit (to my utter joy & amazement) connects the dots right before my eyes when I willingly "pay attention" to & "buy the truth" of Scripture. Pv. 23:23

AWESOME!!! Shalom! :)
---Leon on 1/11/11


I sorry this does not fit into your doctrine Ruben,
---micha9344 on 1/10/11

Micha9344,

It fits just fine, you go only by scripture alone but that does not work, example:

Mark 6:3 reads "the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon?

Gal "James the Lord's brother." Gal 1:19

And then tell me see he had brothers...But:

In Gen 14:14 it reads "And when Abram heard that his brother"

John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, but go to my brothres"

In Gen 14:14 Lott is the nephew of Abram and Mary(Jhn 20:17) went to the disciples instead to his so call brothers.
---Ruben on 1/11/11


Blessing-Trav.Yehovah is forgiving. "Yisrael" defined"turns the head"- complete sentence-one word-reveals Yehovah disciplines His children-"turns their head" from a path of bad to a path of good.In return-"turns the head of God-back".
(Judah-yadah)Hebraic understanding-"to throw your hands out"-in "praise". Our actions in all aspects of life point to God---NO OTHER.
Yerushalaim defined-"pointing the way to completeness".Instruction?Luke 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His Name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.-True Love?
--Forgivness. Isa54:5-8
Hephzi-bah(my delight in her)Isa62:3-5
Virgin Yisrael-Jer31:3-12,31-34
---char on 1/11/11


Endless time spent on reverence of Mary-instead of the beautiful message of Christ who is
Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Something the adversary desired us to ignore.
He has no position that can compare.
---char on 1/10/11

Sheep eat grass....but,...

John 10:4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Psalm 95:7
For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
(You are harmless as a dove char....)
---Trav on 1/11/11


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Leon, thanks for the "dots."
From Matt we know Salome was at the crucifixion. In John she is there, only named as, the sister of Mary. St John doesn't mention himself, so it makes sense not to mention his mother by name either. Thanks for hanging in there. It makes sense.

John, yes, I am still in Jerusalem. Thanks for your input also. I love putting "dots together."
---Rod4Him on 1/11/11


Ruben, if I only had the original as you say, then there are only 11 to choose from.
Yet Matthias, Paul, Barnabus, and James, the Lord's brother are all named Apostles as prior Bible verses show....
Paul denies? I missed that one, but I see:
Rom 1:1,5, 11:13, 1Cor 1:1, 4:9, 9:1,5, 15:9, 2Cor 1:1, Gal 1:1,17, Eph 1:1, Col 1:1, 1Tim 1:1, 2:7, 2Tim 1:1,11, Titus 1:1...18x refering to himself as an apostle.
I sorry this does not fit into your doctrine Ruben, but Truth and doctrine are not always the same, although they should be...
---micha9344 on 1/10/11


We are told Christ is Her first-born because He is her First born.
Luke 2:7
And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

The adversary side-tracks to another path which is a dead end and does not lead to the mark---Christ-
and diverting the attention off of the True Word--Christ.

Endless time spent on reverence of Mary-instead of the beautiful message of Christ who is
Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

Something the adversary desired us to ignore.
He has no position that can compare.
---char on 1/10/11


Rod4Him, are you still in Israel?

Ency.Britannica (Online)...

John was the son of Zebedee, a Galilean fisherman, and Salome. John and his brother James were among the first disciples called by Jesus. In the Gospel According to Mark he is always mentioned after James and was no doubt the younger brother.
---John on 1/10/11


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Gordon-ginger-Bless you both.
The need for Y sh ah'-The Father(Aleph)sent His Son(Word-Bet)by means of the Holy Spirit(Gimmel)to make appeal to receive grace from the God of Israel.Y sh ah' the Mashiach True Judge was of the tribe-Judah.
(Yehudah)contains every letter of the Sacred Name except the letter Dalet.
Dalet defined-Door.
Rev 3:20 Behold,I stand at the door,and knock:if any man hear my voice,and open the door,I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Micah5:1-3
Mat27:51 and behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake,and the rocks rent,
Mk15:38,Lk23:45
The Word of God-inspired down to each letter-Aleph to Tav.
-Repentance-Remission.
---char on 1/10/11


R4H: Salome was Zebedee's wife & James & John's mother. A careful Holy Ghost guided, "dot-to-dot" connected read of Scripture identifies Salome as Mary's (Jesus' mother) sister*.

Why do you think Salome was so bold as to ask a "special favor" of Jesus on behalf of her sons? Was it because she simply thought they were better than the rest of the disciples or was she playing the "family card"?

I know ~ "speculation" you say! Okay, so be it if that's the way you choose to see (don't see) it. Yet, I sincerely hope this helps your understanding. :)

Matt. 20:20-23, 27:56 ~ Mark 15:40-41, 16:1 &

*John 19:25 ~ (three Marys & SALOME).

---Leon on 1/10/11


The Bible teaches us at Luke 1:26-35 not only why Mary was highly favored to give birth to a son in a miraculous way but also what name to give him.
---Don on 1/10/11


Char gives a lovely picture of how it MIGHT have been. But scripture doesn't indicate that's how it WAS.

If Mary had no other children why does scripture refer to Jesus as her "firstborn"?
---Donna66 on 1/10/11


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Leon and John: I am still missing the dots. Where in scripture is Salome the sister of Mary, the mother of Jesus? And where is Salome the mother of John?

And yes, Jewish tradition is/was very strong, ...blood ran thick. No, that's not proof and is speculation, but a more plausible explanation than "nutso." However, I hope this is in the spirit of curiousity, how did things happen? rather than advesarial.

//Depending on the attack, they had different answers.//
Exactly, MarkV, whatever their opponent said, they would oppose, hoping to esteem themselves.
---Rod4Him on 1/10/11


Rod4him, you are right. In fact the Church had a lot of problems through the years from those who wanted to change the positions the Church fathers had on the deity of Jesus Christ. And the Church was not clear many times in how to answered. In the Council of Antioch Sabellius said Jesus was "homo-ousios" The church said He was "homoi-ousios" The church rejected the "homo-ousios" because it was loaded with the agnostic idea of modalism. Then At the Council of Nicea, battling Monarchianism, by Arius, the church changed their position and referred to Jesus as "Homo-ousio" to fight this new attack on Christ. Depending on the attack, they had different answers.
---Mark_V. on 1/10/11


//...Jesus, who was born through Mary...//

I couldn't help but notice that that is exactly the terminology that Cyril of Alexandria condemned Nestorius for using.

As people try to articulate exactly how God became flesh, they end up fighting one another. Cyril seemed to use the issue to establish himself with greater authority, seeing people killed in the process...not quite becoming a servant to one another. Nestorius wasn't innocent either.
---Rod4Him on 1/9/11


Lynn: John (the Baptist) & John (the Revelator) & his brother James (a disciple of Christ) were "all" Jesus'cousins. Where in Scripture does it say Mary had no other children & her husband Joseph had children from a prior marriage?
---Leon on 1/9/11


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"The reason being that Mary had no other children of her own. Those siblings called His brothers and sisters, were actually Joseph's children by a previous marriage, and not blood relation to Jesus"

You say that with utter conviction. You must have proof. Would you care to share it?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/9/11


R4H: John the Revelator & his brother James (both disciples) were Jesus' cousins, i.e., their mother Salome was Mary's sister. Jesus was dying a horrible death on the cross. At that crucial moment was it actually a matter of Jewish tradition... ~ really?!!! :)
---Leon on 1/9/11


Why shouldn't she be the mother of other children? She was not sinless. Jesus' sinless nature came from his Father God.
The scriptures tell that he had both sisters and brothers and that his brothers thought him mad. Obviously they did not believe in His divine mission. Thus, John the apostle ("he whom Jesus loved") would have been the most logical one to care for Mary at that time.
We don't know what occurred between Jesus' brothers after this, nor how soon James became a believer. We do not know the complete story, only what Jesus said from the cross.
---Donna66 on 1/9/11


micha9344* Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Heous references the past never the future.Luke 20:43 Jesus says, "take your seat at my hand until I have made your enemies your footstool." Jesus is not going to require the apostles to sit at His left hand after their enemies are their footstool.

micha9344 * Acts 14:14a [Which] when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul...


micha9344 * What is the requirement to be an apostle?

Read Acts 2:21-26 and Paul himself said he was not a apostles! Paul knew who the original Apostles were read Acts 15.You only have 12 Apostles to choose from.
---Ruben on 1/9/11


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While Mary was the mother of the incarnate Jesus, who was born through Mary, she was not the Mother of the Seed, the Word, Christ who is eternal. In order for Christ to come as a human, God chose Mary as the vessel for His arrival. Firstborn of Mary in Matt. 1:25 and Luke 2:7 the title is given to Christ as Mary's firstborn Son. It is used clearly in reference to the incarnate Person. As Mary's Firstborn, Christ was not only first in time but also in rank and position. The firstborn received a double inheritance and was regarded as the prime descendant of his father However more children were born of Mary, but Christians refute the Arian and Socinian view that this implies that Christ is the first of created beings and hence not eternal.
---Mark_V. on 1/9/11


Char, Wow. Good reply. On the money.
---Gordon on 1/9/11


Actually there is a good argument that Jesus did not have physical brothers or sisters, and that is when Jesus was on the cross, he gave the responsibility of Mary, his mother, to a disciple. The next younger brother should have been the one to take care of her instead of a disciple.
---Rod4Him on 1/8/11

NO NOT REALLY!

Jesus took care of his mother by handing her over to his Cousin(John) who was an Apostle(believer) and Jesus knew would live his full life.

At that time NONE of Jesus brothers were believers.

Had Jesus given Her to his younger brother James(as you say)he would have been dead long before Mary died.

Jesus knew all this and that's why John took care of his Aunt. (Very common practice)
---John on 1/8/11


char,
That last post was AWESOME!!!!
Amen for the Holy Spirit teaching!!
I wonder if anybody who says Mary was born sinless and stayed a virgin got that?
They don't understand why the schisms occured but I am praying they open their eyes to understand.
They occured because the truth was found out!
They are worshipping Mary as a Goddess and don't want to see. The enemy has caused a big deception. Praying for their eyes to be opened before the judgement comes.
Mary was plain human flesh same as Adam. They had to make her sinless because they didn't understand how Jesus who is without sin came from a woman born into sin so they made something up. Not God given understanding but man given understanding which is wrong.
---ginger on 1/8/11


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John was blood relative-please connect those dots, sounds interesting.
No, I didn't consider that His brothers were embarrassed and not there, do you have dots for that? or is that speculation?
Mary considered "nutso," again, sounds like speculation.
"as the elder," wasn't John James younger brother?
BTW, I tend to think He had brothers. I am just pointing out other possibilities.
BTW, I am also aquainted with the argument of the "sinless, perpetual virgin Mary, and theotokos," and that to some the possibiltiy of her not having other sons or daughers points that direction, which I don't believe. :)
BTW, the Jewish law/culture/tradition/structure supports the next brother taking responsibility.
---Rod4Him on 1/9/11


Actually, the John that was Jesus' cousin was John the Baptist, who died before the crucifixion. It was John, the brother of James, who was given the care of Mary.
The reason being that Mary had no other children of her own. Those siblings called His brothers and sisters, were actually Joseph's children by a previous marriage, and not blood relation to Jesus. They, apparently felt no responsibility toward Mary, and, prior to the resurrectioon of Jesus' did not accept Him as Savior. Joseph surely would have been with Mary if he was living, but apparently he had died earlier.
---Lynn on 1/9/11


Actually R4H, John wasn't only Jesus' disciple. He was also Jesus' cousin (blood relative). As for the argument against Jesus not having "physical" brothers & sisters, have you considered the possibility that NONE OF THEM WERE AT THE CRUCIFIXION BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS A NUTSO FAMILY EMBARRASSMENT? Wouldn't that explain Jesus giving the responsibility for Mary's care to "his cousin" John? Mary was probably considered to be nutso also by her "other children". So, as the elder brother, Jesus' choice of "beloved" (faithful & trusted) John was perfectly logical. :)
---Leon on 1/8/11


Actually there is a good argument that Jesus did not have physical brothers or sisters, and that is when Jesus was on the cross, he gave the responsibility of Mary, his mother, to a disciple. The next younger brother should have been the one to take care of her instead of a disciple.
---Rod4Him on 1/8/11


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Because God knowing the heart of fallen man, knew many would try to make Mary a god.

Mary also was with those in the upper room waiting for the Promise of the Holy Spirit on pentecost.
---kathr4453 on 1/8/11


---John on 1/7/11

It's been said that a drowning man will grab at a straw. And John I must tell you that the RCC and Orthodox talking about brothers meaning cousins is a perfect example of someone grabbing at a straw. This is but one of their many doctrinal errors but it is very glaring. Thank you so much for your post.
---mima on 1/8/11


Not prophecied-Mary stays a virgin--Only the Body of Christ is instructed to.
The adversay has placed her in a position of Worship to alter the state of the body of Christ-virginity.We are-to STAY VIRGIN UNTIL the Grooms Return.2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to ONE HUSBAND,that I may present YOU as a CHASTE VIRGIN to CHRIST.
Praying to another-instead of the Father-Matt6:9-15 places them in the position that belongs ONLY to The Father.--Compared?--false god.
When the Groom Returns(true word)-those who have been deceived to follow another word-instead-will be pregnant---not a Virgin.

Mark 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
---char on 1/8/11


Which James is Paul talking about?
---Ruben on 1/7/11

HMMM?... Oh yes Saul said several times..

"James THE BROTHER of the Lord"

And so did the Historian Josephus...
"James The Brother of Jesus who was also called The Christ"

And since Josephus writings were in Aramaic and not Greek. That blows the RCC/Ortho concocted theory that in "Greek" brothers" means "cousins".

BTW.. how does that "theory" cover "His Sisters" hmmmm?

"And Joesph did not have relation with Mary U-N-T-I-L
Jesus was born."
---John on 1/7/11


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Ruben, your example was a phrase expounding on "always" or "forever"
lets try a better example of the word "heos"-till,until
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Maybe they just stayed in Egypt? Context, Ruben, context...
Apostles:
Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Acts 14:14a [Which] when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul...
I only get to choose from the first twelve Ruben?
What is the requirement to be an apostle?
Did Jesus' brother James become an apostle according to Galatians?
---micha9344 on 1/7/11


Mary's line goes directly back to Kind David through one of his children Nathan.
Trav on 1/7/11
--Amen.

The Love story unfolds...
Bless you brother.
---char on 1/7/11

Thanks...I need em.

It is the most astounding, beautiful love story in all creation. Brought tears to my eyes when I finally seen it. Precept upon precept. May YAH bless you and yours for eternity as well.
Ezekiel 16:8
Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love, and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
---Trav on 1/7/11


Mary's line goes directly back to Kind David through one of his children Nathan.
Trav on 1/7/11
--Amen.

The Love story unfolds...
Bless you brother.
---char on 1/7/11


Cluny, Regarding Mary's virgin birth of Jesus, please explain what Matthew 1:25 means refering to "her firstborn son".
---Leon on 1/7/11


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Iggie: I understand what you said re Mary being the mother of God. Point well taken, however it's a balancing act to keep the absolute truth in proper perspective.

My point for saying what I said is because many people think if Mary was the Mother of God, then she too is God. Obviously, that's incorrect!
---Leon on 1/7/11


Ordering-two lines, through Solomon and Nathan might be united and exhausted in Messiah.
**Northern kingdom called 'Israel' consists of ten tribes (Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Dan, Naphali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph,).
**Southern kingdom called 'Judah' consists-two tribes (Judah and Benjamin). The capital of the Southern two-tribe kingdom is Jerusalem
---char on 1/6/11

You had the best information posted Char.
Mary's line goes directly back to Kind David through one of his children Nathan.

These two split kingdoms are to be reunited as you infer.
All the prophets list it and the New Covenant states it Heb 8:8.
Everyone cannot accept what prophets say or scripture. Trying to climb in another way.
---Trav on 1/7/11


Miriam (Hebrew name of "Mary") was a faithful, young servant of GOD. GOD no doubt prepared her to be this special type of servant. She was a virgin when she gave birth to the Messiah "YAHUSHUA". Being a virgin was symbolic of the purity of her Son. (And of her own purity before GOD as a humbled, willing servant.) She was able, after the Birth of YAHUSHUA, to have children, as a blessing by GOD. She was blessed with a normal marriage and a brood of children, as women commonly were in that time. It was THEN considered to be a real Blessing to be married and have children.
---Gordon on 1/7/11


micha9344* --'Till' seems to imply that Joseph knew her afterward,.

Matt. 28:29 - I am with you "until the end of the world." Are you also saying that Jesus will not be with us after the end of the world?

Micha 9344*Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

In the Gospel of Matthew 10:2 It lists the Apostles:
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew, James son of Zebedee, and his brother John, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the tax collector, James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. Which James is Paul talking about?


---Ruben on 1/7/11


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Mark 6:3 the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?
Matthew 13:55 is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
---micha9344 on 1/6/11

In Both Mark and Matthew Gospels it list the same names:
"Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedees sons. "(Matthew 27:56)

"When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus body. "(Mark 16:1)

Note: When Matthew mention the Blessed Virgin Mary, he always indentifies her as 'Jesus mother'...
---Ruben on 1/7/11


Samuel,

Wikepedia banned for use by many colleges/universities. Wonder why?

"Let those who deny that the Son is from the Father by nature and proper to His Essence, deny also that He took true human flesh of Mary Ever-Virgin, for in neither case had it been of profit to us men, whether the Word were not true and naturally Son of God, or the flesh not true which He assumed."
Saint Athanasius,Orations against the Arians,II:70(A.D. 362),in NPNF2,IV:386-387.

How many writings of the Early Church Fathers have you read Samuel? I have a whole collection of their writings in my Christian Library. Do you?

They didn't interpret passages such as Matthew 1:23-25 the way some Protestants here do.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/6/11


Samuel

What "wiki" said is concerning the Roman doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Theotokos, rejected by Orthodoxy. It was not talking about the Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos, a pious tradition held by the Early Church Fathers, and Protestant Reformers such as Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli, and believe by many Protestants today.

Even many Protestant Greek Scholars and Historians will tell you that Matthew 1:23-24 (in light of OT passages where "until" and "firstborn" are found, which have multiple meanings in Greek/Hebrew) does NOT clearly teach Mary had other children.

Such a tradition lack clear Scriptura support.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 1/6/11


\\1. MARY wasn't asked. God chose her because of her chaste, godly spirit.\\

Yes, she was. All creation, including the angels, held its breath, waiting for her "Fiat."

I might point out that Matthew 1 refers to "Judah and his brothers"--but they had no fewer than FOUR mothers among them, so it's clear that "brother" doesn't always mean "of the same mother" in the Bible.
---Cluny on 1/6/11


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Cluny, Ignacius quit with your heretical midEVIL pagan trash. Jesus had brother and sisters.

HERE IS YOUR ANSWER...

Jesus could NOT be born from a man in the Davidic line.

WHY?

Because G-d had curse the Davidic line.

READ...

"This is what the LORD says: Let the record show that this man Jehoiachin was childless, for none of his children will ever sit on the throne of David to rule in Judah. His life will amount to nothing."

So in the NT we have 2 genelogical histories Marys and Joseph. G-d became the Davidic male

Mary was INDEED ASKED and could have refused. It was the same as it was with Abrahams faith. If either refuse then salvation would have not occured as we know it.
---John on 1/6/11


I would like you to post an Early Church Father who taught that Joseph never knew Mary. The couple of times I looked I never found one.

Wikipedia states "While the Eastern Church called Mary achrantos (spotless or immaculate), it did not define exactly what this meant. Today the majority of Orthodox Christians would not accept the Scholastic definition of Marys preservation from original sin before her birth that subsequently evolved into the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception after the Great Schism of 1054."
---Samuel on 1/6/11


"...there's no evidence that Joseph was married before...." (Leon)

It is one the earliest Christian tradition. I'll trust the conviction of the Ancient Church (1st-8th centuries).

Scriptures does not teach Sola Scriptura, BTW.

"Scripture says the exact opposite."

This is debatable. Even Protestant Greek Scholars and Historians will tell you that the Scripture you posted (and those which are commonly posted) does NOT clearly demonstrate that Mary and Joseph had other children (read Mary In The New Testament - Collaborative Assessment By Protestant And Roman Catholic Scholars).

I can restate their position (and those of the Early Church Fathers) in this blog if you like.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/6/11


Leon-

Luke 1:43. It is clear that you are have no idea what the Ancient Fathers, such as Saint Cyril of Alexandria, meant when they said Mary is the Theotokos (Mother of God) for it does not mean that Mary predated God or that she created the divinity of Jesus Christ, but that since the Son of God took on flesh, without relinquishing what He was (God) (without change or mingling of the natures, Council of Chalcedon), one can rightly say she is the Theotokos for the person she bore in her womb and gave birth to was the God-Man (one Person in two natures).

This is called the Hypostatic union. It is about WHO Jesus is!

Read Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological Controversy by John McGuckin.

In IC.XC.,
---IGnatius on 1/6/11


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CraigA on 1/6/11-Agreed.
Many called-few chosen-Mary was chosen.
Parable of fig-tree.
Lineage:
King of Kings-Lord of Lords
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Marys' father a descendent in the tribe of Judah,her mother-a descendent in tribe of Levi)
Ordering-two lines, through Solomon and Nathan might be united and exhausted in Messiah.
**Northern kingdom called 'Israel' consists of ten tribes (Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Dan, Naphali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph,).
**Southern kingdom called 'Judah' consists-two tribes (Judah and Benjamin). The capital of the Southern two-tribe kingdom is Jerusalem
---char on 1/6/11


Isa 7:14, Mat 1:23 The prophesy only required her to be a virgin up thru birth.
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
--'Till' seems to imply that Joseph knew her afterward, hence no more a virgin. Why else would it be worded that way?
Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
---micha9344 on 1/6/11


While I believe that God lets us live our lives according to a free will that he gives each of his creation, I do believe at times that His sovereign will intervenes to cause certain events to come to pass for the good of all mankind.

She had no choice. But she was also a humble godly woman and Im sure felt it a great honor that God wanted to use her as a vessel. Who wouldnt?
---CraigA on 1/6/11


I think the point was to keep her from being exalted, to show how she was common and not divine...still nonetheless she is exalted by some.
---Pharisee on 1/6/11


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"Joseph's children by a previous marriage [?] would be considered hers legally."

Cluny: Actually, there's no evidence that Joseph was married before he married Mary & there's certainly no evidence Mary didn't have children by Joseph. Scripture says the exact opposite. Jesus was
the elder brother (FIRSTBORN SON) of siblings parented by Mary & Joseph. Matt. 1:23-25
---Leon on 1/6/11


1. MARY wasn't asked. God chose her because of her chaste, godly spirit. She had the devine influence upon her heart & its reflection in her life showed God's favour (pleasure, joy) with her.

2. MARY wasn't just favoured, she was "HIGHLY FAVOURED" (Lk. 1:28). I don't believe any other woman in the Bible was given such high esteem with God. (Lk. 1:28-38)

3. MARY was the earthly mother of Jesus, the God-man, who used her as an available, WILLING VESSEL to make the way of salvation for all of mankind ~ include Mary herself.

4. MARY was made "by God" like everyone else. She was not the Mother of God! Mary was human (not a god), the wife of Joseph..."be fruitful & multiply...".:)
---Leon on 1/6/11


Actually, there's no evidence that she did have children by Joseph.

Joseph's children by a previous marriage would be considered hers legally.

OTOH, we see such formulas as "the mother of the sons of Zebedee," but simply "Mary, the mother of Jesus," never "mother of Jesus and his brethren."
---Cluny on 1/6/11


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