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Orthodox Celebrate Christmas

Today is the Nativity of Christ--aka Christmas--on the Julian Calendar, followed by large numbers of Orthodox and other Eastern Christians, including some in union with Rome. How does this fit in with the "Christmas is a pagan feast celebrating Mithras" theory?

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 ---Cluny on 1/7/11
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John, I have no problem with halloween except the evil looking costumes and that it can be a very unsafe night to let your children go out.

I am quite sure that you celebrate birthdays in your family. And I am sure you recognize the months of the year and the days of the week. All pagan in origin.

Maybe you should be pulling the beam out your own eye before trying to remove the speck from your brother's and sister's eye.
---ginger on 1/16/11


.... Yawn! ....
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/16/11


"YOU HYPOCRITES!"

Christmas Worshippers...

You are the same people who criticize Halloween, but out of the same evil mouth say it doesn't really matter what day we celebrate so long as we celebrate. So why not choose Halloween to celebrate???
Hmmm?

They are afraid to leave their mens traditions and be outcasts in their community.

So they wont make waves and celebrate the Passover and Holy Days they know in their hearts are from G-d and are the true days of worship.

So you will not offend men.
So you offend G-d instead.

WHAT JUDGMENT AWAITS YOU PHARISEES OF TODAY
!!!
---John on 1/16/11


""We do not worship Christmas or any of it's trappings". alan8566_of_uk

I never said that you 'worshipped Christmas' but borrowing elements that were part of the worship of the Sun God is not harmony with true worship or "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God". James 1:27

"Why do you think that I...indulge in "Religious practices associated with pagan gods"?

Because it's true.

"The date of 25 December...was chosen by the Church of Rome in the fourth century. This date in pagan Rome was dedicated to the Sun god...the...festivities...were deeply rooted in popular tradition."

The Vatican's L'Osservatore Romano, January 5, 2005, page 10
---scott on 1/16/11


Considering the pagan sunworship origins of christmas, how do you see these verses:

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee, and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

1 Samuel 7:4 Then the children of Israel did put away Baalim ( SUNGOD) and Ashtaroth ( EASTER), and served the LORD only.
---francis on 1/16/11




Francis ... How can celebrating the birth of our Saviour be a pagan feast?

How can celebrating our Salvation through His death and Resurrection be a pagan feast?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/16/11


Nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas is you keep Jesus the focus of the celebration, and keep Santa Claus=666 out. If you can find the fruit of the apple, you can learn more.
---lamar_tucker on 1/15/11


Such wonderful Christian love running rampant through this blog..

Lets go back to political debates...
---NurseRobert on 1/15/11


\\Perhaps you could define "worship."\\

Greek makes a clear distinction between the LATREIA that is due to God alone, and DOULEIA, or the relative honor to whom honor is due.

Alas, English is not always as specific.
---Cluny on 1/15/11


Bad interpretation since the 'her' in the verse refers to false religion system, those that worship a different Jesus or another gospel.
---leej on 1/15/11

HHMM how do you supose that all the world over where there are christians celebrate Easter and Christmas?
Which denomination is responsible for introducing christmas and easter ( BOTH BEING PAGAN FEASTS) into christianity?
---francis on 1/15/11




Rod4him

If one goes by the current definition of "asking/entreating", then yes, I do. It is a Tradition rooted in all of the Ancient and Apostolic Churches and Judaism.

Search online for a extensive explanation given by the editors of the Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers (Second Edition, Volume 14). They explained very well the meaning of "worship" in Greek, and how the Greek Fathers understood the difference between worship (in the highest sense, "lateria"), and veneration (proskuneo). The word "worship" has such a diverse meaning in Greek/Hebrew, and English does not distinguish between the various ways the word is used in other languages.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/15/11


Rod4him

On your first comment, What is your point? Are you calling what the Holy Scriptures teach about the afterlife, praying for the departed and the belief that Angels and the Saints in heaven hear our prayers and pray for us, "Mormonism"?

"What is the difference of praying to the Father or Jesus and praying to saints?"

In the former, you recognized that the one you are praying to is God of the Bible who deserve "lateria", and in the later you are simply following the Apostolic Tradition of asking other fellow Christians for their prayers (Timothy 2:14, Rom. 15:3032, Eph. 6:1820, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, etc). In the end, all "prayers" are directed to God.

In IC.XC
---IGnatius on 1/15/11


Ignatius, you responded to John,

//"Nor do I worship and pray to multiple gods as you do. (i.e. Saints)"

Neither do I or Cluny.//

Now you say, //You do realize that "praying" simply means "to ask or entreat" and does NOT equate worship, right?//

For clarification sake, you do acknowledge praying to "saints?"

Perhaps you could define "worship."

BTW, the current pope is encouraging prayer to a past pope who has not be declared a "saint." This a praying to a person passed from this physical world. (sounds like mormonism).

What is the difference of praying to the Father or Jesus and praying to saints?

Worship definition please.
---Rod4Him on 1/15/11


francis//Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her (RCC) fornication,

Bad interpretation since the 'her' in the verse refers to false religion system, those that worship a different Jesus or another gospel.

Do you honestly think that the SDA would ALSO qualify as clearly, very clearly, much of their doctrine is far away from "that faith once and for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3)?
---leej on 1/15/11


\\Christmas surely has it's origin in Sun worship.\\

No, it doesn't.

And your saying it does doesn't make it so.
---Cluny on 1/15/11


\\"Ignats: Go ahead, kiss the ring, alter boy.
---jerry6593 " \\

Orthodox bishops don't wear rings.

What's your point, jerry? Or do you have one?
---Cluny on 1/14/11


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Jerry said,

""Ignats: Go ahead, kiss the ring, alter boy.
---jerry6593 "


There you go again, making sarcastic remarks to a brother in Christ. You could have answered with the Truth from history, but instead you resort to that.
---Mark_V. on 1/14/11


Scott .. Sorry not to have answered your question. I don't know why you felt the need to ask it, as it does not legitinmately follow anything I said.

I will however answer it ... NO

Why do you think that I or any other Christian indulge in "Religious practices associated with pagan gods"?

That is why I asked you what such practices you were thinking of.

But you chose not to answer. Will you now deign to do so?

You are perhaps thinking that trees, fairy lights, crackers, yule logs, Father Christmas, sleighs and elves are religious practices? But as I said "We do not worship Christmas or any of it's trappings, nor Mithras, nor Father Christmas, nor elves, nor turkeys"

---alan8566_of_uk on 1/14/11


Christmas surely has it's origin in Sun worship. The question is: What does the BIBLE say about that? Paul says that there are no Sun-gods. Sun worship is the worship of devils. The bible calls it fornication when Gods people get involved in such acts.

Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her (RCC) fornication,

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, 1 Corinthians 10:21 ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

Joshua 24:15 choose you this day whom ye will serve,but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
---francis on 1/14/11


"Ignats: Go ahead, kiss the ring, alter boy.
---jerry6593 "

Please continue Jerry. You are just storing up treasure for me in heaven.

It is interesting to see that the hateful spirit that was in Ellen G White is in many of her descendants.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/14/11


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Rod4him-

You do realize that "praying" simply means "to ask or entreat" and does NOT equate worship, right? Eastern Orthodox Christians, and other Christians in Ancient Churches (Latin/Eastern Catholics, Non-Chalcedonian churches, the Assyrian Orthodox Church, the Church of the East, etc) has retained the Ancient Jewish and Christian practice of asking the Saints in Heaven, as well as Angels, for their prayers. The practice and belief that those who Heaven pray for us can be found in Old/New Testament Scriptures (i.e.., Tobit, 2 Maccabees, the Book of Revelation).

Even the RCC will say that all healing originate from God. The Saints and Angels are powerful intercessors. That's it.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/14/11


//Ignats: Go ahead, kiss the ring, alter boy.
---jerry6593 on 1/14/11
Better to kiss a ring, then the exterior of a false prophet.

And such was that oyster eating, Christian damning prophetess who like her master, became an accuser of the brethren (Rev.1:10) and bade us to identify with the chief enemies of Jesus, namely the Sabbath keeping Pharisees.
---leej on 1/14/11


\\Under the heading Occult" in the Catholic Encyclopedia pg 199 we find The magic of the mistletoe seems to be an heirloom from earliest Teutonic times.\\

And that's merely a secular folk custom having nothing to do with the spiritual and liturgical celebration of the Nativity According to the Flesh of Our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ itself.

We don't use mistletoe to decorate any church I've seen. Certainly not mine.
---Cluny on 1/14/11


"You introduce a bogus question." alan8566_of_uk

That's amusing. It's a question based upon your comments directed at those who abhor the pagan customs associated with Christmas and your conclusion that:

"You appear to beleive that the pagan "gods" are more powerful than our God. Shame on you." (sic) alan8566_of_uk

So the question is simple and direct.

"Religious practices associated with pagan gods would be acceptable for a Christian as long as he recognizes that the Almighty God is more powerful than those false gods. Am I getting warm?"

Yes or no?

Perhaps you refer to it as 'bogus' because you are unwilling or unable to answer.
---scott on 1/14/11


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"What...religious practices you are thinking about which are associated with pagan gods." alan8566_of_uk on 1/13/11

Are you suggesting that customs associated with Christmas find there origins in first century Christianity? The fact that you even ask that question reveals that you are comfortable with your head somewhere in the proverbial sand.

Under the heading Occult" in the Catholic Encyclopedia pg 199 we find The magic of the mistletoe seems to be an heirloom from earliest Teutonic times.

"An evergreen tree...decorated with lights and ornaments as a part of Christmas festivities...wreaths, and garlands to symbolize eternal life was a custom of the ancient Egyptians." Encyclopedia Britannica
---scott on 1/14/11


---Rod4Him instead of praying to the dead pope they should be praying FOR him(of course that would be useless activity also).
Such blatantly obvious paganism is a hallmark of the RCC and/or Greek Orthodox churches. Outlandish teaching about the sacraments also qualifies them as engaging in paganism.
---mima on 1/14/11


Some of our "orthordox" friends continually say that catholics/orthodox don't pray to Mary or saints.

However, the following quote is from an article saying that a nun "and her fellow sisters of the Congregation of Little Sisters of Catholic Maternity Wards had prayed to John Paul, who also suffered from Parkinson's." She was supposedly healed.

So what's the deal with her praying to a dead pope who isn't even a saint?
---Rod4Him on 1/14/11


Ignats: Go ahead, kiss the ring, alter boy.
---jerry6593 on 1/14/11


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Mat 15:11b ...but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man
Jam 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good, and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
Eph 4:20-23 But ye have not so learned Christ, If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, And be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
---micha9344 on 1/13/11


"you worship the Catholic pope......jerry6593"

One can understand why Jerry6593 believe I worship the Catholic Pope (even though I am NOT Catholic and I will be forbidden to do so if I was). I have often supported the Scriptura and Historical belief that Christians have worshiped on the First Day of the Week (Sunday) and the Jewish Sabbath was no longer binding on Christians since the Apostolic Era.

However, it is customary in SDA literature to condemn those who believe such as Satantists and a Pope worshiper. It was, after all, Ellen G white who first proposed the idea that those who worshiped on Sunday will receive the Mark of the Beast.

Jerry is simply following his false prophetess ideology.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/13/11


It doesn't at all brother Cluny. Christians celebrate Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving every day.
A calendar date sets aside a date for pagans to spend, schedule football games or create bunny candy for others to purchase but the meaning of the birth of Jesus, his resurrection and our gratefulness continues for believers always.
---larry on 1/13/11


Scott ... You introduce a bogus question.

I have made my position quite clear:

"Christians worship God at Christmas, and all about Him, including His Son Jesus.

We do not worship Christmas or any of it's trappings, nor Mithras, nor Father Christmas, nor elves, nor turkeys"

To look at your question, perhaps you can explain what sort of religious practices you are thinking about which are associated with pagan gods?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/13/11


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//Face it, boy, you worship the Catholic pope as your god.

We need also to FACE THE FACT that there are those who claim their own particular group was given special revelation that others were not entitled to.

And such is the case with the Seventh Day Adventists, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) and other small splinter groups. They are all on the same shelf spewing out their venomous and destructive doctrines.

Sorry Dunce-boy, but the Eastern Orthodox and other Apostolic succession churches existed long before the Roman Church ever became a power, so blaming the Roman Catholic church is responsibile and unsupportable.
---leej on 1/13/11


\\ Face it, boy, you worship the Catholic pope as your god.
---jerry6593 on 1/13/11\\

Nobody but Protestant controversialists ever said that the Popes claimed to be God.
---Cluny on 1/13/11


Oh come on old jerry.

1) Your own church website tells us that SDA follow Holy Scriptures ONLY in light of Ellen G. White interpretations and prophecies (Fundamental Beliefs, #18). Like the Mormons, your religion is built upon a false prophet/prophetess. It is no wonder why the SDA is dead wrong on so many issues. In fact, one can consider them not part of mainstream Christianity.

2) Ellen G White claimed 100% infallibility in her teachings/writings. The Pope doesn't. The SDA is worst than the Roman Catholic Church.

3) Why do you have such a high view on Ellen G. White, a delusional individual who taught things NEVER heard by the Church? Why do you follow such a enemy of the Church?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/13/11


Dear Jerry

I do not know if you are SDA or not. I am a SDA. I do not your comment is an insult and not a true attempt at speaking truth in the way that JESUS would have done. I do not agree with all Catholic doctrine. But I do not judge the hearts and minds of others either. That job belongs to JESUS alone. If you are SDA then you need to follow the Advice of EGW and not make insults and unkind attacks on those non Sda.
---Samuel on 1/13/11


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Jerry, are you SDA?
---NurseRobert on 1/13/11


"You are...talking about..." alan8566_of_uk

Thank you for telling me I'm talking about.

Perhaps you're equally interested in answering the question.

"Religious practices associated with pagan gods would be acceptable for a Christian as long as he recognizes that the Almighty God is more powerful than those false gods. Am I getting warm?"

The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges: "Pagan customs...gravitated to Christmas...The stren (eacute,trennes) of the Roman 1 January (bitterly condemned by Tertullian, de Idol., xiv and x, and by Maximus of Turin, Hom. ciii, de Kal. gentil., in P.L., LVII, 492) survive as Christmas presents, cards, boxes."
---scott on 1/13/11


Ignats: My beliefs are based strictly on the Bible - no woman pope as you claim. You, on the other hand, adhere to the false doctrines of the Catholic church - and even claim that you invented them first. What an honor! Do you also claim that your first pope was Peter? Face it, boy, you worship the Catholic pope as your god.
---jerry6593 on 1/13/11


Steveng & Scott

You are of course talking about false worship and worshipping false gods. You cite Baal as a false god, and the worship of the Golden Calf as false worship.

Both of which are irrelevant to the discussion, which is about Christmas.

Christians worship God at Christmas, and all about Him, including His Son Jesus.

We do not worship Christmas or any of it's trappings, nor Mithras, nor Father Christmas, nor elves, nor turkeys.

"Are you so foolish" Steveng, that you cannot get that into your noddle?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/12/11


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alan8566_of_uk

I haven't changed anything, I'm simply trying to decipher what your actual argument is here.

If I understand your position on the topic of false gods and idols including Mithra, Baal, etc...

...religious practices associated with pagan gods would be acceptable for a Christian as long as he recognizes that the Almighty God is more powerful than those false gods. Am I getting warm?

If I've misunderstood your argument then which, if any, practices, celebrations, etc., with false religious connotations would be off limits for a Christian? Are all such practices in harmony with Christian principles as long as we understand that God is all-powerful?
---scott on 1/12/11


including some in union with Rome. How does this fit in with the "Christmas is a pagan feast celebrating Mithras" theory?

Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

EASY ANSWER
If these adulterous woman was israel, the whole world would be celebrating passover.
But because it is the RCC the world in spiritual fornication celebrates easter and christmas
---francis on 1/12/11


\\"Orthodoxy is merely Roman Catholicism without a pope...."\\

The Pope's infallibility is strictly limited and defined.

OTOH, EGW claimed infallibility for ALL of her writings.

"Whenever I send you a testimony of reproof or correction, you reject it as merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God."
---Cluny on 1/12/11


"Orthodoxy is merely Roman Catholicism without a pope...."

1) Your statements reflect your willful ignorance of Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Church History, and paganism.

2) The Seventh Day Adventist false christian sect follow a mentally ill individual by the named of Ellen G. White. SDA claim she was a prophetess, even though she made false predictions. The SDA church has raised her writings as authoritative.

So what is the SDA really, but a religion built upon a false god? Is the SDA any different than the Mormons? Both built their faiths on a single individual, who claimed to be the spokesman of God.

You have a female pontiff Jerry. Don't talk about others. Ok boy?

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/12/11


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Scott ... Why do you keep changing your argument?

You now seem to say that the false gods were not real, whereas before you criticised me for saying they did not exist.

Yes, idolatry is valueless ... why should this be? It is because they had no power .. or certainly no power to match God's.

Re your last paragraph, the discussion here was about false gods (eg, Baal, Mithras) not false worship (eg using the calf, or statues as a means of worshipin God).
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/12/11


"It detracted from the worship of Him." alan8566_of_uk

'Detracted' is a monumental understatement.
God's word clearly identifies idolatry as: 'Valueless' (1Ch 16:26, Ps 96:5, 97:7), 'Horrible' (1Ki 15:13, 2Ch 15:16), 'Shameful' (Jer 11:13, Ho 9:10), 'Detestable' (Eze 16:36,37), and 'Disgusting' (Eze 37:23).

"Some of them are real..." alan

Which ones were real? Baal?

"They can only have power over people if those people allow it." alan

So in the example of the golden calf that I provided, since the Jews essentially attempted to use it to worship the 'true God' with reference to a 'festival to Jehovah' then this act of false worship was acceptable right?
---scott on 1/12/11


\\Orthodoxy is merely Roman Catholicism without a pope. Roman Catholicism is merely baptised paganism.
\\

This, of course, shows how much you know about Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or, for that matter, paganism.

There is more evidence that SDAism is just baptized Karaism.
---Cluny on 1/12/11


Jerry6593: The statement is the opposite of what is the case: The Catholic Church is developed from the Orthodox Church, by adding the authority of the Pope, which does not exist in the Orthodox Church. There are also some other changes to the faith as well

The fact that the date of Christman is the same as a pagan feast does not mean it IS a pagan feast - there is a big difference!
---Peter on 1/12/11


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Orthodoxy is merely Roman Catholicism without a pope. Roman Catholicism is merely baptised paganism.
---jerry6593 on 1/12/11


QUESTION FROM CHRIST...
Luke 20:4
"John's baptism--was it from heaven, or from men?"

SAME QUESTION FOR YOU...
Constantine's Holy Days--was it from Heaven or from Men?
-----------------------------
Luke 20:5(+/-) They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From Men,' he will ask, 'Why did you believe him?'

How then do you Pray to G-d???


---John on 1/11/11


alan8566_of_uk and Mark V: "... please do not patronise us all the time by telling us to do these online searches."

Are you that foolish that you do not understand? Why do you continually take my words out of context? Knowing this, you do the same with bible verses.

When I ask to do an online KJV bible search, I'm not telling anyone to do a general online search through Yahoo or Google. I'm specifically suggesting to do a search in the KJV bible itself. While most people don't have an searchable bible on their computer, they can go to an online KJV bible to search for certain words relating to the topic. Today, we have it easy to search the bible using certain words. The Bereans had to actually read entire passages.
---Steveng on 1/11/11


AND NONE COULD ANSWER!

And the Lord said "But when I return will I find "The Faith" on Earth?
THE ANSWER SADLY IS NO!!!!

For all have commited adultry and fallen to the Pagan Idol worshipping as the Israelites and man has always done in the past.

AND THE LORD SAID...
"I have reserved a remnant for myself who have not bowed down to Baal." (Constantine).
---John on 1/11/11


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There were no pagans before Julius Caesar?
---micha9344 on 1/11/11


If you think I'm a pagan, David, that must mean I'm in good spiritual shape.

Keep on blessing me and increasing my heavenly treasure.
---Cluny on 1/11/11


Scott ... God prohibited tht worship because it detracted from the worship of Him.

But let's say some of them are real ... they can only have power over people if those people allow it.

John and Candice and the others clearly do allow themselves to be in thrall to those false gods, as they are so frightened of them. Do they believe in the power of those false gods more than they trust God?
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/11/11


"Mithras and all the others are only gods because man makes them gods...if these gods are real, and do have their own power, it is even more bizarre that John David etc are frightened of them, given the power of our true God." alan8566_of_uk

Using this reasoning you'd have to ask why God ever prohibited the Jews from idolatry or the worship of false Gods at all, because in reality the gods were not...well...REAL...only imagined.

Why would the 'true God' be concerned about the worship of the "golden calf', for example, of Ex 32? Arron even attached the divine name to it's worship (32:5).

How'd that work out for them?
---scott on 1/11/11


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Steveng ... please do not patronise us all the time by telling us to do these online searches.

The point is that Mithras and all the others are only gods because man makes them gods.

So it is bizarre that John and Candice and the others are so frightened of them.

And if these gods are real, and do have their own power, it is even more bizarre that John David etc are frightened of them, given the power of our true God
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/11/11


alan8566_of_uk: "But they do not have divine power, so are not gods"

I do a lot of paraphrasing of the bible so, therefore, most of what I write are from the bible. If God calls them gods, why would a christian argue? Do an KJV bible search (either online or if you have a searchable bible on your computer) for the word "God." Look for the word "god" that is not capitalized and learn about the bible.
---Steveng on 1/10/11


//\\How can you even say we teach Paganism, When in fact we are pointing out your pagan religion. \\

No, we point out yours.//

And thus is the story of most of the early church "fathers," always accusing the other of being the one in the wrong. "I am right, and you are wrong. Therefore I go to the emperor to get you anathematized. If that doesn't work, I'll try to kill you."
---Rod4Him on 1/10/11


Steveng. There are two kinds of "gods" )apart that is from our true God)

The first is those things you mention, and the things that our materialistic world truns inot gods ... the new car, the gym ritual etc But they do not have divine power, so are not gods

Then there is the Mithras, and the other pagan gods of Now I know that whatever power they have is totally overcome by God. The fact that David Candice John and Rhonda are so frightehed of those "gods" shows they beleive in them, and makes them the pagans.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/10/11


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What pagan Cluny deviously omits from his blog question is that January 7 on the Gregorian (Western) calendar is in fact December 25 on the ancient Julian calendar.

Pagan Cluny should have couched his question thus- 'Today 01/07/11 on the Western Gregorian Calendar, is December 25 the Nativity of Christ--aka Christmas--on the Julian Calendar.'

The Romans, including Julius Caesar (founder of the Julian Calendar) celebrated the birth of Mithra on their pagan holy-day, December 25.

You can't hide your true pagan identity behind the Julian calendar Cluny. Observers of the December 25 pagan holy-day using the ancient Julian Calendar are the original pagans!
---David8318 on 1/10/11


Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 declared October 5 will be called October 15.

Following this, the Church of Rome celebrated Mithra-mas (Xmas) on 25 December 1582, but the Eastern Churches still showed 15 December on their Julian calendars. When the Church of the East celebrated Mithra-mas, it was already 4 January 1583AD on Gregory's new calendar. That gap widened by 3 more days over the next 400yrs. This is why the Churches who still celebrate December 25 according to the ancient Julian calendar find themselves, in the 21st century, celebrating Mithra-mas on 7 January of the Gregorian calendar. This will become 8 January after the year 2100 A.D.

Don't be fooled. Pagans are celebrating December 25 on their Julian Calendars.
---David8318 on 1/10/11


\\How can you even say we teach Paganism, When in fact we are pointing out your pagan religion. \\

No, we point out yours.
---Cluny on 1/9/11


John,

"I do NOT Kiss Pagan Icons"

Neither do I or Cluny.

"Nor do I worship Mary"

Neither do I or Cluny.

"Nor do I have a Pope/Patriarch who speaks for G-d."

Neither do I or Cluny

"Nor do I worship and pray to multiple gods as you do. (i.e. Saints)"

Neither do I or Cluny.

"Nor do I worship Holy Days decreed by the Pagan Emperor Constantine."

Never heard such a thing.

John, you need to seek professional help. You are a pagan, and are now spreading lies about Cluny and I to make it seem that we are pagans as you!

Bizarre behavior John! You believe in "other" gods. You are NOT a Christian!

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/10/11


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Other gods do exist.

They are the things made by the hands of man and worshipped by man (for instance, graven images). They are the things imagined by man and worshipped by man (for instance, the gods of mythology). To people who worship the things made by man or imagined by man these things are real and is their god. It is the god of this world that blinded the minds of them which believe in these perceive real gods so to turn their backs on the real God. Among the gods there is none like the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God is exalted far above all other gods. Give thanks unto the God of gods.
---Steveng on 1/9/11


How can you even say we teach Paganism, When in fact we are pointing out your pagan religion. This sounds like Projection. A psychosis of projecting ones beliefs on others.

It is NOT I or Candice that participates in these Pagan Rituals but you and Cluny.

I do NOT Kiss Pagan Icons as you do. Nor do I worship Mary as a Goddess. Nor do I have a Pope/Patriarch who speaks for G-d. Nor do I worship and pray to multiple gods as you do. (i.e. Saints)
Nor do I worship Holy Days decreed by the Pagan Emperor Constantine.

Very bizarre and convoluted reply Ignatius.

Not worth a reply!
---John on 1/9/11


"Excellent point Candice" (John)

If you believe in other mythical gods (those in Greek/Roman mythology, and other cultures), then the only one here that is 100% pagan are you and candice.

Sorry John and Candice, but polytheism is condemn in the Bible and no sane Christian in the past 2,000 years believed that other "gods" exist in the heavens.

Both of you are pagans and are teaching doctrines of demons.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/9/11


Candice. God created everything. If these other gods exist, God must have created them.. There is no biblical record of him doing this.

If you believe in them, and are afraid of them, as youn seem to be, it means you do not trust God's power.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/8/11


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Excellent point Candice!

It seems there are those who will fight even against the throne of G-d Himself. In order to preserve their Pagan Traditions. That inspite of ALL the facts presented to them.

They simple refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

Alan, THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!
---John on 1/8/11


candice, Christianity does not allow for polytheism.
---Cluny on 1/9/11


Christ is no more mithras, than I antiChrist.
---Eloy on 1/9/11


Alan. other gods do exist & not myths at all. God said not to put other gods above him. If there were no gods then he wouldn't have to remind us to put him above all other gods. the thing is they aren't the true God.
---candice on 1/8/11


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John ... You have made ad nauseam attempts to prove it a heresy.

But what you have actually done is to prove that you yourself are pagan, since you clearly beleive in the pagan gods.

The rest of us know that thye do not exist
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/8/11


And what if Nativity were observed in July.

Would it still be pagan then, John?
---Cluny on 1/8/11


Dittos on all my (and many others) post on The Pagan rituals called Christmass or as you say...The Feast of the Nativety"

I think we proven this a heresy at nauseum.

NICE TRY.

Hey keep the faith!

(because I sure don't want anything to do with it)
---John on 1/7/11


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