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Was Job In Genesis 46:13

Was Job (in The Book of Job) the same Job mentioned in Genesis 46:13 (JacOB's grandson)?

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 ---Leon on 1/12/11
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And along the same line, Just becasue a person is named John, doesn't mean he wrote the book of John...
Just because there is a person named Job in Egypt doesn't mean he is the same Job as the book..
Even Job of Israel had a different name, Jashub...
What some are trying to say is this Job (Jashub) moved out of Egypt without any evidence other than the name, whereas others are saying Jobab's family already have Uz as a possession and was a prominant man in the area as was the family of Temanites, to whom belonged one of Job of Uz's friends.
To recap, the only evidence that Job of Israel is Job of Uz is the name Job....
---micha9344 on 1/31/11


#2
The answer to the question is--not likely according to the preponderance of evidence
---micha9344 on 1/31/11


Seir was a chieftan/leader of tribesmen called Horites which lived in the mountainous desert of Arabia. Seir's name was associated with the area that was eventually taken over by Esau's descendants and became known as Edom. The region called "Uz was in the land of Edom" (formerly called Seir).

Just because Jobab (Esau's grandson) lived in the land of Edom doesn't authenticate he actually lived in the region of Edom called Uz. That's like saying because someone lived in the United States, he/she must've lived in New York.

Again, Uz was a region (place, community...) in the land formerly known as Seir. UZ WASN'T ALSO KNOWN AS SEIR. :)
---Leon on 1/31/11


Scripture also shows the Edomites lived in Seir also known as Uz, which was the name of one of Seir's grandsons.
---micha9344 on 1/31/11


Scripture shows Jobab (great-grandson of Esau) was an Edomite, but JOB (grandson of Jacob/Israel) was an Israelite.
---Leon on 1/30/11




Yeah and even if scripture proved he was an Edomite, that doesn mean certain denominations would accept it. It would conflict their beliefs.
---CraigA on 1/27/11


Guys, guys, guys (Cluny, Trav & Micha)!!! Specifically, what does your squabbling have to do with JOB? :)
---Leon on 1/27/11

No squabble. The debate is whether Job was Edom or Esau's line.
Some prefer he be edomite. Scripturally he doesn't fit the line. Even logically.
---Trav on 1/27/11


Guys, guys, guys (Cluny, Trav & Micha)!!! Specifically, what does your squabbling have to do with JOB? :)
---Leon on 1/27/11


Deu 2:5 Meddle not with them, for I will not give you of their land, no, not so much as a foot breadth, because I have given mount Seir unto Esau [for] a possession.
Jos 24:4 And I gave unto Isaac Jacob and Esau: and I gave unto Esau mount Seir, to possess it, but Jacob and his children went down into Egypt.
Lam 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz, the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.
Gen 36:20-21 These [are] the sons of Seir the Horite, who inhabited the land, Lotan, and Shobal, and Zibeon, and Anah, And Dishon, and Ezer, and Dishan
Gen 36:28 The children of Dishan [are] these, Uz, and Aran.
Out of the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses.
---micha9344 on 1/25/11


....no witnesses....except your gut and the council of some dead Orthodox men, unmentioned in scripture, by name....but not in allegory.**

In other words, you cannot disprove what I said, so you stoop to emotional attacks with loaded words.
---Cluny on 1/23/11

Well, it was a "stand up" observation that your witnesses are...void.

Kind of stands out, the controversy you and another would promote is Esau is good.
Scripture, never says this...witnesses abound.
....The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever....Malachi 1:4
---Trav on 1/25/11




**\\ There are no Prophetic witnesses to support your desire for controversy on the subject.\\

The Orthodox Church of the Living God, ...that's sufficient prophetic witness for me.---Cluny on 1/17/11

Your language is clear. You have no witnesses....except your gut and the council of some dead Orthodox men, unmentioned in scripture, by name....but not in allegory.**

In other words, you cannot disprove what I said, so you stoop to emotional attacks with loaded words.
---Cluny on 1/23/11


1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
1Th 5:15a See that none render evil for evil unto any [man], but ever follow that which is good...
---micha9344 on 1/22/11


Weeell Micha: It's like this! :) You can believe what you believe & I'm going to "passionately" do the same from my perspective. :)

This isn't a salvation issue, wherein there's no room for compromise, so we can disagree agreeably. I "believe" the most important thing in the whole matter is the Lord is able to showcase (put on display for all to see) & use His servant Job (JASHUB :) or Jobab :/) to twart the evil doings of Satan. To God be all the glory, honor & praise!!!

I really enjoy vigorous, civilized debates. But, I avoid (like the plague) any unChrist-like (unfruitful), knock down, kick in the gut & drag out by the hair arguments. lol

Shalom! :)
---Leon on 1/21/11


That's the whole point Leon, except for the fact that Job the Israelite shares the same name with the book of the Bible, all else can be neither proven nor disproven.
It is quite ironic, however, that, since this question was posted and I have searched deeper than I have before about Job of Uz's origin, the more I am convinced by the multitude of facts and circumstantial evidences that Jobab the Edomite was Job in Uz.
I do appreciate your conversation in this matter and I do get passionate about my beliefs.
Is there any other information that you would like to add? If so, proceed...
---micha9344 on 1/21/11


"BTW, Is that why you post a blog question?...Just to force your assumptions and degrade others who have different views?"

Interesting "speculation" Micha, but far from true. Actually, I enjoy reasoning (never arguing) with bloggers like you who are rigid (concretized) in their thinking about what they believe Scripture says. I offer plausible, Bible-centered, explanations rather than blind religious speculations. I never mean to offend or force anything on anyone, but the truth sheds a painful light on falsehood.

There's a saying: "The fool tries to convince me with his reasons. The wise man persuades me with my own." If what I say is untrue, please prove it from Scripture. Peace! :)
---Leon on 1/21/11


All speculation, Leon..
Sheer speculation....
Just to fit one word "Job" in with the book of the same name..
BTW, Is that why you post a blog question?...Just to force your assumption and degrade others who have different views?
How sad....
---micha9344 on 1/21/11


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"How is it...the family of (Jashub) were numbered among the Israelites? Left for Uz & came back for...bondage?"

No Micha, that doesn't show they never left Goshen!
Leaving Goshen wouldn't have made them any less the children of Israel. They were still his children living in neighboring lands, e.g., Uz, etc., in close proximity to Egypt.

Egypt feared a possible alliance of the Hebrews with their enemies (Ex. 1:10). So, they enslave all of the Hebrews LIVING IN GOSHEN ONLY.

JASHUB/JOB'S FAMILY WEREN'T SLAVES! Leaving Uz was likely in their best interest, i.e., to no longer live so close to the enslaving/genocidal Egyptians ~ figuratively speaking, "Nazis". :)
---Leon on 1/20/11


Num 26:23-25 [Of] the sons of Issachar after their families: [of] Tola, the family of the Tolaites: of Pua, the family of the Punites: Of Jashub, the family of the Jashubites: of Shimron, the family of the Shimronites. These [are] the families of Issachar according to those that were numbered of them, threescore and four thousand and three hundred.
How is it that the family of Job (Jashub) were numbered among the Israelites? Left for Uz and came back for the glorious bondage? Merged with them on there way through?
Any indication in the Bible other than they were already in Egypt through all of it?
Whereas Jobab is already placed in the correct area and at the correct time with Septuagint (132BC Greek Old Testament) references.
---micha9344 on 1/20/11


//Esau have I hated.
Interesting 'Job' means 'hated'.//

hated--same word in english , different words in hebrew.

persecuted v. detested
---aka on 1/19/11


Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Interesting 'Job' means 'hated'.
---micha9344 on 1/19/11


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I do not believe the Israelite Job to be the one and same Job in the book of Job. The only evidence is the name, which is very shakey to stand on.
---micha9344 on 1/19/11


\\ There are no Prophetic witnesses to support your desire for controversy on the subject.\\

The Orthodox Church of the Living God, ...that's sufficient prophetic witness for me.---Cluny on 1/17/11

Your language is clear. You have no witnesses....except your gut and the council of some dead Orthodox men, unmentioned in scripture, by name....but not in allegory.

Job an Israelite,through Naphtali, would not be found as an example in Israelite scripture....as edom. Or Esau. Who are opposed....for-ever.

Psalm 119:104
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Psalm 51:6
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
---Trav on 1/19/11


Cluny: You say Job is called Jobab in the LXX. The exact opposite is true, i.e., Jobab is called Job.

Since the LXX is older than the Massoretic Text you feel it's therefore correct. Well, older isn't always better or even right. The Bible shows that truth consistently. So, we must always consider the source credibility & possible hidden agendas of people to determine accuracy.

How do you explain Jobab (the Edomite) having only ONE SON from his Arabian wife, but Job in the Book of Job initially had SONS & daughters? Which is correct?

"Yes, he is" HUH?!

Which "he" are you referring to? I said Job (the Israelite) is never called Jobab & that's true. :)
---Leon on 1/19/11


\\He's never called Jobad & Jobad is never called Job except in the spurious Syriac extra-biblical writings.\\

Yes, he is. He's called that in the Greek LXX text of Job, which is older than the Massoretic Hebrew text.

Denying it won't change that fact.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


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Micha: No doubt Jobab (Esau's grandson) was born in Edom. However, the Bible doesn't say he was born or lived Uz.

Again, you miss the point. It not a matter of Job or even Jobab living in Edom. Certainly, Edom (even the land of Uz) was big enough for the two of them to live in comfortably. For all we know, these distant cousins knew one another. The point is which one is the Job of the Book of Job?

Just like today, people then were crossing borders & living in foreign lands. Look at Lot in Sodom ~ the children of Israel in Egypt ~ Joseph, Mary & Jesus in "Egypt", etc.

By the way, you said Job (the Israelite) died in Gershom. Really?! The Bible doesn't say that. :)
---Leon on 1/19/11


//...you would not say that if you knew anything about Church history.//

I know this is getting side tracked from Job. I got side tracked because the "orthodox" view was presented as fact.

I know Cluny knows history, so I have to wonder why he would say the emperors were not involved with the council.

It was Constantine who suggested the word "homoousious," according to Eusebius. Eusebius also says that the council gathered in the imperial palace at Nicea, and that Constantine entered the assembly with much gold apparel "like a messenger from God."

Granted, Eusebius was brown nosing the Emperor.

The emperor was directly involved, wanting to unite his kingdom.
---Rod4Him on 1/19/11


Leon, apparently your guess is as good as mine, although you have moved Job, the Israelite into an area where Jobab, the Edomite already resided without any evidence whatsoever as to him moving and the only reference to him being the same as in the Book of Job is his name in which Cluny pointed out (kind of sarcastically) that he probably wasn't the only Job in the land.
So, we have Jobab in Uz already, being established by the Bible, and you have the name of Job no where near Uz according to the Bible.
It is quite hard to berate our inferance of Jobab, the Edomite, being Job if you have to infer that Job, the Israelite, moved to Uz.
---micha9344 on 1/18/11


The Bible also calls Job "Jashub". He's never called Jobad & Jobad is never called Job except in the spurious Syriac extra-biblical writings.

Job (G46:13) was Jacob's grandson (an Israelite). One Jobad was Esau's grandson (an Edomites). Another Jobab was the son of Joktan, son of Shem (Noah's son -- G10:29). Some folk guess one these Jobabs was Job of the Book of Job.

Interestingly, the Book of Job doesn't say what Job's nationality was. It aptly identifies the Sabeans, the Chaldeans & Jobs friends native origin. So, was the real Job a natural born Edomite or was he a migrated Israelite who resided in Edom (Uz) the land of his great-uncle Esau?

Micha: You can't prove Job died in Goshen. :)
---Leon on 1/18/11


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\\The above statement places credibility on the Orthodox Church, which is built on the councils, which the emperors had the final say and were very involved with.\\

Wrong. She is built upon God.

\\To say they were "were left alone by the Emperor to deliberate on their own "is the same as saying "go make a decision, but make sure I'm happy with it."\\

That actually is not true, and you would not say that if you knew anything about Church history.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


Leon, such negativity...
Present your case...
Your abuse of others opinions in regard to your blog question does not add validity to your point of view, rather it starts losing credibility.
Please proceed....
---micha9344 on 1/18/11


Cluny: //The Orthodox Church of the Living God, which is the pillar and ground of the truth, accepts it, and that's sufficient prophetic witness for me.//

The above statement places credibility on the Orthodox Church, which is built on the councils, which the emperors had the final say and were very involved with.

That is a house of cards built on sand.

To say they were "were left alone by the Emperor to deliberate on their own "is the same as saying "go make a decision, but make sure I'm happy with it."
---Rod4Him on 1/18/11


The Syriac book says Job (somehow mysteriously known as Jobab) begat A SON from his Arabian wife. But, the Book of Job, 1:4 & 7 says Job had SONS & 3 daughters [10 children in all]. So, is the Syriac book right or is what Job 1:4 & 7 Scriptural truth? I believe the latter!
---Leon on 1/18/11


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\\Which councils do you follow? You haven't been clear, Ignatius has.
---Rod4Him on 1/18/11\\

I've answered this question several times.

Like Ignatius, I follow the seven councils that were called from throughout the Empire, but were left alone by the Emperor to deliberate on their own.

Please tell me which of these seven councils dealt with the text of Job.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


"...Jobab...is the main figure of the Book of Job."

If what you say is true Cluny, why then isn't the Book of Job not called the Book of Jobad? The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) seem to think Job was a nickname. Is that your stand also?
---Leon on 1/18/11


//Please tell me how an emperor influences the issue of which text of Job is accurate, or which emperor Ignatius or I follow.//

Which councils do you follow? You haven't been clear, Ignatius has.
---Rod4Him on 1/18/11


..encourage everyone that is able to read to find the two or more witnesses in scripture on any matter.-Trav

Overall, i agree with this.
... omission and misuse of scripture is also no matter if you have two or more witnesses. ---aka on 1/17/11

1. Omission is found more often, in that witnesses are easy to accumulate.
2. Truth is not what we've been taught as a rule, but doctrine. Mostly unsupported by Prophets or Apostles.
Use key words like "Royal Priesthood". For ever. Everlasting.
Sheep. Loved. Only.
The witnesses will pile up in the thousands....the further you search. The conclusion of a search is truth.
---Trav on 1/17/11


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\\That's right Trav. Adherents of the Syriac, so-called "Orthodox" version doesn't know the difference between Job (grandson of Jacob) & Jobab (grandson of Esau).\\

And Jobab, the grandson of Esau, is the main figure of the Book of Job.
---Cluny on 1/17/11


That's right Trav. Adherents of the Syriac, so-called "Orthodox" version doesn't know the difference between Job (grandson of Jacob) & Jobab (grandson of Esau).
---Leon on 1/17/11


\\Actually it doesn't make it clear.\\

It's only unclear to those who don't understand human language.

\\ There are no Prophetic witnesses to help your desire for controversy on the subject.\\

The Orthodox Church of the Living God, which is the pillar and ground of the truth, accepts it, and that's sufficient prophetic witness for me.
---Cluny on 1/17/11


--The Syriac version of Job makes it clear that he was descended from Esau.
---Cluny on 1/12/11

Actually it doesn't make it clear. There are no Prophetic witnesses to help your desire for controversy on the subject. Rather the opposite. And the word "for-ever".
Genesis 36:8
Thus dwelt Esau in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.

Malachi 1:4
Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places, thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down, and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
---Trav on 1/17/11


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Leon, Do you mispell Isaac's name on purpose or is it just a translational difference?
Anyhow, please continue...
---micha9344 on 1/17/11


Bible historical facts:
1.) Jacob & Esau reconciled. G33:1-20
2.) The descendant of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob were nomadic (migratory) people who "feared God". That is to say, they were in awe of & held God in very high esteem.
3.) The children of Israel prospered in the land of Egypt (Goshen) during Joseph's governorship.
---Leon on 1/17/11


Ignorance of scripture keeps a lot of people in deception. -CraigA

I encourage everyone that is able to read to find the two or more witnesses in scripture on any matter.-Trav

Overall, i agree with this. however, 1) 125 word format does not allow good thought patterns that can be followed. 2) the assumption that we all use the same scripture and have the same saviour makes use of scripture nebulous at best. 3) Ignorance of scripture is not the only culprit of deception. omission and misuse of scripture is also no matter if you have two or more witnesses. 4)Finally, the two above statements should obey the same rule. if not, then the editorials with them do not matter. because 1), we depend on the His Truth not our words.
---aka on 1/17/11


\\ I suppose people need an emperor to help make the final decision. \\

Please tell me how an emperor influences the issue of which text of Job is accurate, or which emperor Ignatius or I follow.

Be specific, Rod4Him.
---Cluny on 1/17/11


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//Sorry, but I will rather trust what the Ancient Christians of the 1st-8th centuries of the Church wrote, taught, and confess...//

Just like today, one can choose which one of the "ancients" they follow. I suppose people need an emperor to help make the final decision. However, many today are chosing to follow Christ instead trying to figure out which ancient was right. Although I do find it interesting reading ancient writings, even those I disagree with.
---Rod4Him on 1/17/11


You cant expect people to believe what the Bible says over what their churches teach anymore

Ignorance of scripture keeps a lot of people in deception. They are simply too lazy to look for themselves.
---CraigA on 1/16/11

Craig, have seen two post along this thought line above from you.
Both times you hit the nail on the head. The misnamed shepherds, do not know their scripture. They would not tell the sheep how to read precept, upon precept in most cases if they did. Fearing loss of title/powertrip feelings.

I encourage everyone that is able to read to find the two or more witnesses in scripture on any matter. These witnesses will free one in truth, that false shepherds will never see.
---Trav on 1/17/11


You cant expect people to believe what the Bible says over what their churches teach anymore.

The new "truths" are instilled with fear that if we question what we are taught we are questioning God himself and therefore are not saved.

Ignorance of scripture keeps a lot of people in deception. They are simply too lazy to look for themselves.
---CraigA on 1/16/11


Is that you Iggie or is it luny or mayhaps (the only person I know on these blogs who repeatedly uses the word "dissed") ELOY? Perhaps the name is Legion because you are many. :)

No such thing as "sola scriptura"? If you say so, but let's stay on track, whoever you are. This blog is about JOB. Got it? Thank you!
---Leon on 1/16/11


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Micha: I mean this in a nice way ~ you're a tough nut to crack. You have the propensity to zero in on & focus intently on things significantly irrelevant to the subject.

Sorry if you think Issachar doesn't, at least in similarity, share his Great- Grandpa Issac's name. It's immaterial to this blog anyhow. Yes, just a side note. Howwever, I assure you, there's nothing coincidental as to where anyone is or was in the Bible.

A person needs the patience of Job to reach you. Don't worry, I'm willing & able to try. :)
---Leon on 1/16/11


leon-

You are right. That is why I am Orthodox!

Sorry, but I will rather trust what the Ancient Christians of the 1st-8th centuries of the Church wrote, taught, and confess instead of doctrines and practices 21st century Protestant Christians dissed out as "the Truth".

Post 16th century Protestant sects DO NOT have the "Truth". A careful examination between Protestantism and Holy Scriptures/Ancient Christianity will reveal that.

And contrary to your man-made philosophy, there is no such thing as "Sola Scriptura". A Christian should adhere to God's word as reveal in Holy Tradition (Scriptures, Ancient Liturgies, and the witness of the Fathers) that is kept in Orthodoxy.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/16/11


"...little exclusive, sanctimonious religious group that's better than anyone else... " (Leon)

If one read Holy Scriptures, the Holy Apostles and the Early Christians believed that the visible Church was the place where one will find God's word (in the form of Scriptures and Oral Holy Tradition) and defended her doctrines/practices against others who taught differently.

In fact, Saint Paul himself said that the Church is the Pillar of Truth (1 Tim 3:15). Thus, according to biblical record, there is still a visible church that holds the whole Truth.

Only in Orthodoxy will find the continuous of the Ancient Church, proclaiming what the Holy Apostles and the Ancient Fathers believed and proclaimed.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/16/11


Leon, still pushing the envelope, 'Issachar' meaning 'there is recompence' is much different than 'Isaac' meaning 'he laughs' and dramatically different when seen in Hebrew, but this is a side note.
I will let you continue, noting that Israel was not in bondage at the time after the famine. I will also note any speculation you may have at this point.
Esau's descendants were in the right place at the right time with the right people, but it may all be coincidence.
---micha9344 on 1/16/11


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And there you have it Cluny, your own little exclusive, sanctimonious religious group that's better than anyone else on the entire planet. Enjoy the delusion before the bubble pops...
---Leon on 1/16/11


Gee Micha, you're a tough audience! Don't throw the baby out with the bath water! That was only my intro...just laying the foundation. :)

I intentionally said "may have" (actually may've) because Scripture doesn't say how old Job was at that time. For fact it does say Job was alive, he was a child obviously considerably younger than his father Issachar (who apparently was named after his grandfather Issac) & he was very much younger than his ol' Grandpa Jacob.

Before going any further, let me state a fact: The children of Israel (Jacob) didn't go immediately into bondage when they entered Egypt (Goshen).

How do you like me now (have I connected any dots yet)? :)
---Leon on 1/16/11


\\You strongly imply the EO Church is the only one that has the "Holy" Truth? \\

Don't you believe that YOUR church is the only one that has the holy truth, Leon?

If you don't, why do you bother going to it?
---Cluny on 1/16/11


\\ou strongly imply the EO Church is the only one that has the "Holy" Truth? Well, you certainly have the choice to believe what suits you.\\

I didn't imply it. I out and out said it.

And I'll say it again.

The Orthodox Church has the full truth.

Post-reformation churches do not.
---Cluny on 1/16/11


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Not very well Leon...
Using words like 'may have' do not connect dots very well...
On the contrary, they tend to separate or even add more dots to the puzzle...
Straight lines connect dots, not vague ones.
But continue, maybe they could connect if probably something may per chance happen coincidentally...
---micha9344 on 1/15/11


luny: Obviously, the religious folks in your world have done an unorthodox "job" on your mind & filled you with spurious, & sanctimonious beliefs about the Holy Scriptures. You strongly imply the EO Church is the only one that has the "Holy" Truth? Well, you certainly have the choice to believe what suits you.

You would do well not to be so smug about having faith in the holes riddled, extra-biblical writings of men. All Christians should be more concerned about adhering to the truly "Holy" inspired word of God.
---Leon on 1/15/11


Let me try & connect the dots for you Micha:

- Ol' man Jacob took his family from Canaan to live in Egypt because of the SEVEN YEAR FAMINE. G41:54-57 ~ 46 & 47
- Issacar, Jacob's "grown" son, followed with his family...JOB.
** Job may've been between infancy & his teen years when they went to Goshen (Southern part of Egypt, strategically the closest area to the border of Canaan).
- Jacob & family, under Joseph's care, did very well during their initial stay in Goshen, i.e., SURVIVED THE FAMINE, "had possessions & multiplied exceedingly" ~ lived many years there under Joseph's wings. G47

At 75 word limit Micha, etc. How am I doing so far? :)
---Leon on 1/15/11


\\Based upon some special Eastern Orthodox knowledge, you claim the Book of Job is about a man descended from Esau. If that's what you believe, then that's what "you" believe. To each his own! But, I'm not buying it because it doesn't fit within the mold of canonized Scripture\\

Yes, it does.

It just doesn't agree with your Bible full of holes (which is NOT what's meant by "Holy Bible").
---Cluny on 1/15/11


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"Of course, it is impossible to have two people with the same name, especially in the Bible." :)

So, you're saying the Esau you're talking about isn't the same as Issac's son?
---Leon on 1/15/11


Cluny: You appear to be evasively using circular double talk. You're trying to square peg Esau into the round hole of Bible truth in opposition to the Gen. 46:13 Job (a descendant of Jacob/Israel). Based upon some special Eastern Orthodox knowledge, you claim the Book of Job is about a man descended from Esau. If that's what you believe, then that's what "you" believe. To each his own! But, I'm not buying it because it doesn't fit within the mold of canonized Scripture.
---Leon on 1/15/11


\\Esau's grandson was named Jobab.\\

This is precisely what the LXX ending of Job says. It identifies him with Jobab.
---Cluny on 1/15/11


\\Cluny: When you say the Orthodox (True) Church, of whom are you speaking?\\

The Church known as the Orthodox Church, aka Eastern Orthodox. It's the one the Roman Church and hence Protestants split from.

\\ Also, does the age of a particular writing automatically mean that it is authoratative/God-inspired? \\

Little known fact: the Hebrew text underlying the LXX (Septuagint) is OLDER than the Massoretic text, which is post-apostolic.

\\What about the jargon you referenced about Esau? \\

I'm not too sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

LXX is the standard abbreviation for the Septuagint.
---Cluny on 1/14/11


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I think Cluny is correct.. the more I trace the names in Job the more I see around Esau's descendents..
Esau's grandson was named Jobab.
Seir's grandson was named Uz.
Seir was the inhabitant of the land Esau moved to away from Jacob.
Another of Esau's grandson's was named Teman as in Temanites.
Jobab's authority was turned over to a Temanite.
Other lineage seemed to be derived from Abraham's and Nahor's era, which is why I first concluded around that timeframe than Esau's.
I am still open as there are no direct correlations with these names, but I do believe Jacob's grandson can be ruled out.
---micha9344 on 1/14/11


Cluny: When you say the Orthodox (True) Church, of whom are you speaking? Also, does the age of a particular writing automatically mean that it is authoratative/God-inspired? What about the jargon you referenced about Esau? The "LXX" (70)?!
---Leon on 1/14/11


\\Job be a descendant of Esau when Esau was the son of "Issac" & twin brother of Jacob who fathered Issachar who begat JOB\\

Of course, it is impossible to have two people with the same name, especially in the Bible.

Right?
---Cluny on 1/14/11


\\Cluny: Does the Syriac book measure up to the authoratative canon of Scripture (Gen.-Rev.) or is it merely extra-biblical presumptive literature?\\

It is actually an OLDER text than the Massoretic.

This ending also appears in the LXX, which text the Orthodox Church accepts as authoritative and inspired.
---Cluny on 1/14/11


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Cluny: Does the Syriac book measure up to the authoratative canon of Scripture (Gen.-Rev.) or is it merely extra-biblical presumptive literature? Also, how can the Gen. 46:13 Job be a descendant of Esau when Esau was the son of "Issac" & twin brother of Jacob who fathered Issachar who begat JOB? Sorry, but all of what you've said thus far appears to be a tangled web of presumptions.
---Leon on 1/14/11


--The Syriac version of Job makes it clear that he was descended from Esau.
---Cluny on 1/12/11

If that were proven true it would shake the very foundation of election to salvation and prove that Romans 9 is horribly misinterpreted.

"And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
---CraigA on 1/14/11


\\The Job mentioned in Gen 46:13 lived and died in Goshen along with that generation of Jacob.\\

The Job of the Biblical book is NOT descended from Jacob.
---Cluny on 1/13/11


Sorry. I meant to say Esau. Here's how Job ends in the LXX:


It is written that he will rise again with those whom the Lord raises. He is described in the Syriac book as dwelling in the land of Ausis, on the borders of Idumea and Arabia. His name before was Jobab and he took an Arabian wife and begot a son named Enon. He himself was the son of his father Zare, one of the sons of Esau. His mother was Bosorra, so that was fifth in descent from Abraham.
---Cluny on 1/13/11


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The Job mentioned in Gen 46:13 lived and died in Goshen along with that generation of Jacob.
Gen 46:6-7 And they took their cattle, and their goods, which they had gotten in the land of Canaan, and came into Egypt, Jacob, and all his seed with him: His sons, and his sons' sons with him, his daughters, and his sons' daughters, and all his seed brought he with him into Egypt.
Gen 47:27 And Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen, and they had possessions therein, and grew, and multiplied exceedingly.
---micha9344 on 1/13/11


Cluny: A descendant of Isaiah you say ~ ooookay! Would you please give chapter(s) & verse(s) in the Syriac version of Job. Thx!
---Leon on 1/13/11


No.

The Syriac version of Job makes it clear that he was descended from Esay.
---Cluny on 1/12/11


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