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Adam Brought Spiritual Death

Did Adam and Eve's sin introduce spiritual death to the world or physical?

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Trav, Matthew 10:6 and 15:24 refer to Jesus time on earth and do not exclude salvation for Gentiles because His gospel is "..the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." Romans 1:16

And in support we have Jesus (a light to the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6) telling Annanias "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel." Acts 9:15.

Quoting Isaiah Paul says "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations, in him the Gentiles will hope."

This destroys your racially biassed case.
---Warwick on 2/5/11


Trav, your still doing a lot of talk and haven't answered the question.
A simple yes or no will do.
I suppose those from Judah who don't have a circumcise heart will make it in just because they are from Judah.
Did you not know that "believing Jews" and "believing Gentiles" are now one? The two combined are "Abraham's seed' (Galatians 3:29). This is the real "Israel of God" Galatians 6:15,16). This mystery has been accomplished by our Messiah's death and resurrection. He demolished the wall that you are trying to put back up. Please read Eph. 2:11-16 for your answers. So that you can be set free from the prejudice (the wall) you are trying to put back up.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/11


Trav, In your struggle to prove the impossible you have Jesus calling Jews Gentiles! Nonsense.---Warwick on 2/4/11

There is no struggle, with a prophet less preacha. Scripture deals with you effortlessly. Wie me lil finga.

Israel was more than just Judah, preacha. The Ethnos were in most NT uses the Ethnos/nations of the Lost Sheep of the House of norther house of Israel.

I don't see the word "gentile" in Jer 31:31 or Heb 8:8 or in Matt 10:6 or Matt 15.24. You don't either.
You void all GOD's people to insert yourself. Formerly in ignorance....but, not now.

Sheep like Jacobs daughter at the well knew the story...but what happened to a sheep like you? Perhaps its the clothing we see.
---Trav on 2/4/11


Trav, you are ducking and weaving again!

Jesus' words are ,(Acts 9:15) "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel."

In your struggle to prove the impossible you have Jesus calling Jews Gentiles! Nonsense.

The Scriptures you give do not contradict what Jesus said.

Romans 1:16 "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. More nonGentile Gentiles?
---Warwick on 2/4/11


Trav, what you are saying really is that salvation is only for the Jews, is that correct?
Warwick and I have been trying to scrabble what you are saying.---Mark_V. on 2/4/11

Ah,ha, a partnership. I see. A dblsided mirror. U-Ying he-Yang thing, is the picture.
Scripture does the telling better,but your not interested,unless Markdoc approved. Will post for the sheep though.
Judah is one Nation part of 12. That is easy.
Israel was 12 nations when complete.....and to be complete again,according to OTprophets.
As far as Israel GOD's wife only? Here is one preview of many.
Eze 37: 28 the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 2/4/11




Trav, what you are saying really is that salvation is only for the Jews, is that correct? Because all you talk about is the Jews. I know Warwick and I have been trying to scrabble what you are saying with all of your answers.
I believe instead of all the talk about the one's divorced, and those who are not, trying to show us which ones are saved and which ones are not, you should just go right ahead and say that your point has always been that the Gospel is only for Jews, those you mentioned. This way we get that out of the way.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/11


Trav, ...words of Jesus, show He told Ananias "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel."
---Warwick on 2/3/11

The word has been carried before the "ethnos" nations of the world,the Kings and people of Israel & Judah. Apx 2000 years.
This broad statement does not make your defining point. This scripture below is defining in its point.
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

It is not the amount of scripture...it is the lack of scripture witnessing scripture that makes your testimoney weak.
---Trav on 2/4/11


Satan actually brought lies, deception & disobedience(SIN) of God's instruction unto the earth. Man gets into trouble when we forget God's instructions and lean to Satan's craftiness. I cannot blame Adam & Eve more than ourselves today. Even with the redemption that Christ has given us, we still sometimes fail just like them.
---Adetunji on 2/4/11


Trav, You selectively use Scriptures, those you incorrectly believe show that Jesus came to die to save only Jews.---Warwick on 2/3/11

Selectively? Well,yes would call Christ statements selective. Lost Sheep of House of Israel were divorced Nth house nations. Judah unlost was South.
Nth House Sheep are sand on your beach for multitude.
My post have never sought Judeans but, their "brothers",relations in the Flock. And Judeans if they look.
Incorrectly? Well, u preach an oppo$ing doctrine, so u would feel this way. $cary part for you is opposing not only Christ and his statements/mission, but all Prophets and Apostles 2. Mo$tly in ignorance/pride but, you've been told/shown...and from here forward by choice.
---Trav on 2/4/11


Trav, how creatively you misuse what I have written. I do not say you lack intellect but that I "am confident you are playing games."

You did call me a liar, don't be a wimp!

You selectively use Scriptures, those you incorrectly believe show that Jesus came to die to save only Jews. But Scripture, the very words of Jesus, show He told Ananias "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel."

You say I do not quote enough Scripture but unlike you I do not attempt to misuse it for evil reasons.
---Warwick on 2/3/11




Back to the topic...

Both.

Their ACTION was based on believing the word of the adversary--Instead-anti-.
Adam no longer had Elohim's GLORIOUS likeness.
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as ONE of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live FOREVER:


Romans 8:3 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
---char on 2/3/11


Initially I thought you were of limited intellect or limited English ---Warwick on 2/2/11

Ha, dis is me above! O wise and prudent one. Am lemeted intilegense. But,GOD can uze even 1 sech as i wid his scriptruz (plural)as witness. 2 fin a los sheep.

Proverbs 15:12
A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.
Isaiah 5:21
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
---Trav on 2/3/11


Trav, You casually call my scientist friend/s and Jewish contact 'fantasy' or imaginary.'
Conversely you often give Scriptures which are irrelevant to the matter in hand.---Warwick on 2/2/11

Didn't accuse you of lying. Although, who could determine? Said your witness'es are fantasy because they are nameless....unproven. You add them when you fantasize what authority they lend your argument.
The irrevelant scripture I post. Is, noted by you, irrevelant to you. The point again.
You will not cannot see the precept subject...for example "sheep" so it appears irrevelant. Again, by ur shadow circling, i c u.
Were u scripturally humble student of scripture...scripture would not rebuke or reveal.
Jer 23:1
---Trav on 2/3/11


Trav,those who easily lie easily accuse othere of lying, as you do. You casually call my scientist friend/s and Jewish contact 'fantasy' or imaginary.' The truth is that I know the truth of this situation and you don't. Nonetheless you accuse me of lying.

Initially I thought you were of limited intellect or limited English but now am confident you are playing games. We know you can write comprehensible English as you sometimes forget and actually write a real sentence!

BTW I use Scriptures where I consider it necessary to demonstrate a point. And yes I often reason from Scripture, as we are commanded to do-1 Peter 3:15. Conversely you often give Scriptures which are irrelevant to the matter in hand.
---Warwick on 2/2/11


Trav, You often claim I do not support my points with Scriprure. However when I look at the copy of my blogs which I keep I can only say nonsense.
Stick to the truth.---Warwick on 1/31/11

Truth hurts ur little feelings OK. I don't keep a copy of your posts...a pointless waste. Can see u keeping them though.
When I look at your recent post, 1 can c reference to scripture 7 times out of 19 post...with opinion and non biblical logic insulating ur personal doctrinal beliefs. No scripture posted witnessing scripture...with finality. Otherwise you would not need your fantasy opinion applied for icing everytime.
+ ur fantasy science friend,jew friend etc. Worthless as witness, ur imaginary supporters nameless and unproven.
---Trav on 2/2/11


Trav, more nonsense. Have you translated what you originally wrote (in another language), into English, via Altavista perhaps?---Warwick on 1/31/11

Nonsense to those that flee, but not sheep that see....scripture.
Again below in english, that you have not seen nor will not see. By scriptural avoidance you make it easy for me to see....you.
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


John 10:13
The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
---Trav on 2/2/11


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Trav, more nonsense.

You wrote "I expect your doctrines to come against me and scriptural witnesses pointed too and avoid when negating the doctrines of men." Have you translated what you originally wrote (in another language), into English, via Altavista perhaps? In English this sentence is meanlingless.

You often claim I do not support my points with Scriprure. However when I look at the copy of my blogs which I keep I can only say nonsense. Stick to the truth.

BTW you have also claimed I am a universalist or some confused permutation of this. Please let me know what this means. The fact that you have not answered this same question before leads me to believe you do not even know what it means.
---Warwick on 1/31/11


Trav,
I think you mostly write nonsense and your unwillingness or innability to explain yourself is proof of this.
---Warwick on 1/26/11

Well you are entitled to an opinion. I expect your doctrines to come against me and scriptural witnesses pointed too and avoid when negating the doctrines of men. The world has/will/must always do this.
Scripture marks those well in this manner.
My postings are for those that can see and hear. We do not have a debate or a lesson for you to learn. Ur doctrines are the lesson. Meat is for who can eat it.
Jeremiah 23:1
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
---Trav on 1/31/11


Jerry, a further comment. Some may say that lawyers actually do argue that the law does not say what it appears to say. And sometimes win. And we call them shysters.
---Warwick on 1/30/11

When old preachers do the things above scripture calls them wolves. When they have to distort or avoid other scriptures they would be called serpents/vipers.
Matthew 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

I know this guy.
---Trav on 1/31/11


Cluny and Warwick.--- I've done research too. Cluny, You are correct that not all hybrids/interspecies offspring are sterile.
Only the MALES. Some females are not and may be bred back to one of the original species.
Dogs can breed successfully with wolves, but not with foxes, because their chromosome count is different.

I'm skeptical of a bobcat/house cat cross because bobcat would normally see tabby as FOOD.

The only way a cross species mating can produce a NEW species, is if the offspring can mate with each other and produce a second generation. Because of the sterility factor, this has never been known to happen.
---Donna66 on 1/29/11


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Well I know some one who crossed a bee with a door bell and got a "hum-dnger"
or the one that crossed a horse with a spider, we don't know what it was but if it bit you , you could ride it to the hospital!
---1st_cliff on 1/29/11


\\Warwick, Wrong again , the hybrids you cite are all sterile and do not produce a "species".\\

Not necessarily true.

I did a little research on the topic, and discovered that not all hybrids/interspecies offspring are sterile.

I know that house cats and bobcats produce fertile offspring.

And (as I just learned) the female cross of a dolphin and false killer whale was bred to a dolphin and produced offspring.
---Cluny on 1/28/11


Donna, the point is not whether the offspring are sterile, or not but that their ability to interbreed proves they are closely related, part of the one original kind.

However my research (including a chat with a scientist friend yesterday)shows some offspring can breed.

I read an article, with photos of the offspring of a shetland pony and a zebra. A cute little brown fellow with stripes. It has been called a zorse, a zetland and a zony!

As you say, and as far as we know, all dogs can interbreed, showing they also are descendants of the one original dog kind. However in time some genetic copying error may cause speciation in one or more of the dog breeds. Maybe it has already happened and science hasn't caught up.
---Warwick on 1/28/11


As a rule products of breeding between species are sterile.
For example mules (or hinnies), the offspring of a of horse and donkey, are sterile. They are thus not a "new" species., since they cannot reproduce.
The same would be true of the zonkey as well as ligers and tigans (males are all sterile. A rare female may be fertile to be bred back to a lion or tiger male)

However, two quite dissimilar dogs (since they are the same species) may produce offspring from which a new breed can be developed.
---Donna66 on 1/27/11


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Cluny they have to be the same species to produce offspring. That is what defines a different species, within a kind: the innability to interbreed.
---Warwick on 1/28/11


Warwick, Wrong again , the hybrids you cite are all sterile and do not produce a "species".I'm well aware of Geep or catalos (buffalo and cattle) but again are sterile. Mules were produced on a big scale but each one had to be bred and could not naturaly prouce offspring!
YOU are the tricky one!
---1st_cliff on 1/28/11


Do whales and dolphins or sheep and goats produce viable (if not necessarily fertile) offspring?

Or do they merely indulge in interspecies copulation?
---Cluny on 1/27/11


Cliff, wrong agin! A little research will reveal that many creatures you may see as different kinds can interbreed. For example Sheep and goats, lions and tigers, horses and zebras, whales and dolphins, zebras and donkeys.

And of course all the varieties of dog can interbreed which demonstrates they came from the one original kind.

To put it plainly Cliff your antiBiblical passion blinds you to reality.

Interestinglythe ofspring of a zebra and a donkey is a zonkey!

It is also interesting and relevant that the Mandarin character for sheep and goat is the same. This is because they are so alike. Spend a little time in the Middle East and you will see what I mean.
---Warwick on 1/27/11


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Mark thanks for the information. I think I have the two of you separated in my mind.

I really don,t let it all get to me. Yes I am saddened by the lack of faith some Christians place in God's word. Nonetheless I am excited to be free to defend God's word against liberals, compromisers and some who I believe pose as Christians.

---Warwick on 1/26/11


Warwick, Your answers are much like the evolutionist's that God only needed to create the Amoeba ,as one "kind' and all species evolved from that.
A horse looks like a donkey but they are not related!Neither are sheep related to goats!
There are thousands of "kinds"!
---1st_cliff on 1/27/11


Warwick, I like many of your answers very much. And I know what you are going through. I have been there many times. You are very serious about the word of God and others don't seem to have your passion. One here always riddles what the word of God says. Takes passages and puts his own words to those passages like a game waiting for someone to respond. The other speaks in his own language wanting you to unravel what he said. Kind of using those who answer as the instrument of his game of words. And the Word of God and the issues go out the window. So you respond in the only way you know how. Do not let it get to you Warwick. Your answers on Scripture are good.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/11


Trav, Scripture is not a puzzle to me, and you know that is not what I wrote. You are being deceitful.

You keep referring to me as a universalist or my universalized doctrine. Therefore I asked you to explain what you mean by my "universal one world doctrine."

I think you mostly write nonsense and your unwillingness or innability to explain yourself is proof of this.
---Warwick on 1/26/11


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Trav I have tried to ignore what you write as it is somewhat confused and meaningless most of the time. ---Warwick on 1/26/11

Scripture will always be meaningless and confusing to any self proclaimed universalized preacher. As it should be.
Your witness is fine in two ways. You provide opportunity's for scripture to come to light.
What you avoid speaks twice as loud in omission.
When you don't have scripture you have opinion that generalize/universalize.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Matthew 10:27
What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
---Trav on 1/26/11


Trav I have tried to ignore what you write as it is somewhat confused and meaningless most of the time. I am sure you can write sensibly but like to play games.

But tell me what you man by my "universal one world doctrine." What do you mean by this?
---Warwick on 1/26/11


I think you know this but ignore it as your desire is to attack and undermine the word of God. Sadly your rebellion can only lead you to eternal damnation.

But it isn't too late.
---Warwick on 1/25/11

Ha. Not too late? It is written in the word of Warwick that will not challenge his universal one world doctrine.
He has judged you unfit by reason of questioning interpreters and his highself.

That is the way you come across when, miffed with questions your witnesses cannot deal with. You logic is....not GOD's, nor many,many others. It might even be called the wide way at times.
---Trav on 1/25/11


Cliff if you trusted Scripture you would know that God created 'kinds' and that Adam named some of these kinds. For example he had to name the dog. It is unScriptural and ridiculous to imagine he had to name the fox, and the coyote and the dingo, and the......

Speciation occurs over lengthy periods of time.

I think you know this but ignore it as your desire is to attack and undermine the word of God. Sadly your rebellion can only lead you to eternal damnation.

But it isn't too late.
---Warwick on 1/25/11


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Elder, You're right I couldn't name all the creatures today. When he saw them he had to come up with a name that suited them (they were as yet unnamed)Took some thought and concentration. How many creatures are/were there? thousands ,not counting "sub-species".
---1st_cliff on 1/22/11


The woman's sin brought both.
---Eloy on 1/22/11


Cliff

The access back in to the garden(keeping Adam,Eve out)was for their own proctetion.
Their Sin inside the garden was only covered with the blood of animals, which could never pay the price for SIN,because they became seperated from God(spiritually dead).In that state if they would have eating from the tree of LIFE they(Adam,Eve)would have lived forever seperated from GOD.The price for their sin was not paid until about 4000 years later,by the BLOOD OF JESUS which united dead man(spiritual)back with God.
---lionel on 1/22/11


Adam's disobedience casts the entire human race into both spiritual and physical death. Therefore, by the obedience of the Second Adam all were made alive!
---Allan on 1/22/11


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Cliff the Hebrew word for "drove" in Genesis 3:24 is a word that was also used for divorce.
Next, think about this, I know about heart transplants and babies being born although I myself have not experienced either one. Remember, God is not on trial here. Adam had knowledge enough to name all of the animals. Together the two of us can not do that now.
---Elder on 1/22/11


It would be interesting to know what is meant by **He "drove" them out** , dragged, booted,forced,carried etc..
Then He placed Cherubim ,more than one, not angels or humans , dictionary says resembles "sphinx" animal with human face?? carried weapons (swords) tho fighting was unknown?? not metal swords since they don't burn must have been something like the "light sabers" of Star wars??
placed at the east entrance, maybe not accessible from N,S or W?
---1st_cliff on 1/21/11


Cluny, in my opinion to what you said about dead fossils I do not agree. For the reason that when God spoke, it was done. When He spoke the stars moon and sun, they were there. "let them be for signs and season, and days and years" They did not have to go through evolution or time to be what they were. The same for animals, we don't read He made animals from eggs or babies, He spoke and they were there with age. When He made Adam, He didn't make him an infant but an adult. The same with Eve. Everything that He did, He did exactly as they appeared. With the ground He ordered the earth to bring forth grass, the herbs that yields seed according to its kind, and the trees the yields fruits.
---Mark_V. on 1/21/11


Cluny, I'm with you on this subject, as I argued with Warwick, how would Adam have known what "death" was if he had never known anything to die? The sentence would have been unjust!
---1st_cliff on 1/20/11


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//"So he drove out the man, and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 3:24//

He already was spirit-then formed in flesh.

Born from above-May be able to be born again.
Why? The man called Adam-partook.
Second Adam-is life.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,he cannot see the kingdom of God.
-Now two natures-Spirit and Flesh.
The Spirit is welling but the flesh is weak.Matthew 26:41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Bear-witness.1Jn5(all)
Praise Him for His mercy.
---char on 1/20/11


I would say both, but since physical death (separation of the soul from the body) is the direct consequence of spiritual death (the separation of the soul from God), it was only for human beings that they brought death.

Animals, as we know from the fossil record, DID die before the Fall.
---Cluny on 1/20/11


Answer to question is both, physical (the flesh) and spiritual.

This was the physical curse: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Genesis 3:19

And this represented the spiritual, total alienation from God: "So he drove out the man, and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 3:24

The only way man was going to be in communication with God is when he is born of the Spirit of God. That's because He is Spirit.
---christan on 1/20/11


Yehovha did not create souls to destroy them.

"And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God,but to the rest it is given in parables that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand"
To His Chosen he still needed TO EXPLAIN-they to did not see-Cor 2,Jn14:16.
Chosen to preach to all nations-calling Yirael back to repentance FIRST(Beginning at Yerusalem "way to completness") then-the chosen will be AS WITNESS to ALL mankind(souls) of-LOVE OF GOD.Is43:10-27,44:1-7,
Yirael-committed adultery-Married-Divorced-BUT FORGIVEN-Ez16:8,Jer3:8 TRUE testimony of GODS LOVE for ALL SOULS TO SEE-Is61:10-11
New Man-Wife...Eph2:15
Remitted-New Yerusalem.
---char on 1/20/11


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Craig, the reason you laugh is because you do not take the Word of God serious. Concerning parables,

"And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand" It is not something to laugh about. It is Truth. Before the parable of the Soils in Matt. 13:3 Jesus had employed many graphic analogies, their meaning was fairly clear in the context of His teachings. Parables require more explanations (v.36) and Jesus employed them to obscure the Truth from unbelievers while making it clearer to His disciples (V. 11,12).
---Mark_V. on 1/20/11


Did you skip over Luke 15:24 ? His father considered him "dead" even though he was still alive and was happy to see the son returning home.

Repentance is still MANS responsibility. God calls us and we are instructed to not harden our hearts against the Spirits call to repent and believe. (Hebrews 3)

These two seperate calls that your church believes in is not mentioned in scripture. It is the same call to all men. All men are being drawn just as Jesus Christ said they would be. (John 12:32) You cant put the blame on God if a man chooses to resist that call and say it just wasnt Gods will.

Are you suggesting that both God and satan now want men to perish? What "good news" is that?
---CraigA on 1/19/11


---I do believe what Jesus says, since this is a parable and only believers know what parables say. --

This actually made me giggle a little.

Is this why the DISCIPLES of Jesus Christ had to ask for the meaning of the parables Jesus taught? And those same parables are explained in writing for the entire world to understand now!

Once again you try to belittle the knowledge and understand of a brother in Christ because you dont agree with me. I pray that one day youll learn to debate without being pompous and insulting. This is exactly why you get the type of responses from others that you do and yet you dont understand why.
---CraigA on 1/19/11


Craig, no where in that passage of the Lost Son in Luke 15 does it say that the son ever died. Or that he was made alive? What that is, is a parable. I do believe what Jesus says, since this is a parable and only believers know what parables say. For some unknown reason, you don't know what it says. The Father never stopped been the father and the son never stopped been the son. When the son returned after recognizing his depravity, in the parable the son was starving and need of his father, His father welcomed him with open arms. For God never abandons His children who were chosen from the foundation of the world and are born lost. His children never stop been His children.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/11


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When you were dead in your trespass and sin Christ died for you.If he(jesus) died for you yet you are alive in the physical,what kind of death were you suffering from.

When jesus saves an indivisual,and gives them life even tho he is already alive.Is not that man when united to the body of Christ after being alieanated from God because he was dead in sin.

Does not Sin seperates a man from God.
Is not spiritual death seperation from God,when Adam sin did not he become seperated from God,and became dead.

Until Jesus came the lamb was a temparal covering for spititual dead man(ADAM). Jesus equal Life.
---lionel on 1/18/11


Cliff, the passage does not say what you say. "In the day that you eat" if the day was 930 years long, he would be eating for 930 years you would be right. But he ate on one particular day at one particular time. And the instant that he ate, he died. How can you refuse to see this? Wouldn't it be worded different if you were right? Like
When you do eat of that tree, you will die 930 years later?" You are inventing something out of nothing. I will move on to other topics.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/11


---"The natural person does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned" Doesn't that tell you while spiritually dead they are not able?--- MarkV

Nope it doesnt. Do you value your opinion more or what Jesus Christ taught? The "dead" can still repent. Luke 15:17-19,24

And since repentence is required of God for salvation (Luke 13:5), it is still OUR responsibility to do so. God will not be mocked. We will reap what we sow. (Galatians 6:7)
---CraigA on 1/18/11


Mark V, Think about it ,if God had meant a 24hr.day and Adam had eaten then, he would have immediately died and that's the end of mankind!He would have needed to start all over again!
The thousand year "day" would have begun the moment he disobeyed!
This gave them a chance to populate.
---1st_cliff on 1/18/11


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1Cliff, why do those who are lost have to be born again of the Spirit? Can you answer that question? I want to see where you are going with this? If they are not spiritually dead, why bring them alive to Christ? What purpose would it serve if they are not spiritually dead?
What you are suggesting is the people who are lost can enter the Kingdom of God without been born of the Spirit. Making Jesus comments false. Is this another attempt to justify that man is not fallen? And that he can save himself with his own abilities because he does have something in him that pleases God?
---Mark_V. on 1/18/11


1Cliff, please read the passage again. I think you have gone wild on me. I know what day means "yom" But you do not realize what the passage is saying, Here it goes again, "in the day that you eat of it" Lets stop there. How long does it take for Adam to eat that fruit? 1,000 years? he could only eat the fruit at one time, on a particular day. God was not saying, "in the thousand years you are eating that fruit you will surely die" He could not eat the fruit for 1,000 years.
I really don't see what is so hard to understand the passage unless you want to make up so sort of theory that Adam ate for a thousand years, not in one particular day.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/11


lionel, Wages of sin is death is the opposite of the gift of God is eternal life-Eternal life or eternal death!
There's no mention of "spiritual death" in Gen.
Those "dead in their trespasses" is "figurative"!like "let the dead bury the dead" certainly not literal!
---1st_cliff on 1/17/11


Romans 5:12-21 explains the physical ramifications of Adam's sin. Compare this passage to 1Cor15 where Paul is explicitly teaching about our physical resurrection. He uses the same phrases - all men died, all will live, first and second Adam, etc. Nowhere does scripture say we are born spiritually dead. Nowhere.

Paul said in Romans 7:9
"I was once alive (spiritually) apart from the Law, but when the commandment came, sin became alive an I died."

He didn't say he was born dead, he said he died when sin came alive.
---James_L on 1/17/11


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Mark V, "Int he day you eat there of.." The word is "yom"

Holman's Dictionary= yom period of time, no mention of 24hr.for this "yom"
Strong's Concordance = yom - period of time !

Where did you get the 24hr.idea??
He did not "die' for another 930 years! Gen. documents when Adam died.Not day one!
God clothed them, where's the alienation???
---1st_cliff on 1/17/11


Mk 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Luke 18:17

As to the question-
The adversary already existed and through sharp words beguiled.
If the man called adam had not participated(trangression)-The pleasure for mankind would still be Eden(Completeness with God)who is eternal.
Genesis 2:17
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men,for that all have sinned:

Covered themselves with Fig leaves from-Fig Tree ---Judge 9:8-15
Matt24:32-51,Luke 24:47,Mk13:28
Mk2:17
-Repentance unto remission-
---char on 1/17/11


Alan, concerning Adam and Eve,
"In the day they disobeyed, as God had so solemnly warned, both physical and spiritual death became their status. The body became subject to temporal death, and the soul in like manner lost it's communion with God, it died spiritually. Adam gave immediate proof, showing by his behavior that spiritual communion and life was extinguished in his soul, so that he fled from the presence of the Lord, and "hide himself from the Lord God." God immediately passed sentence, beginning where the sin began, with the serpent, followed by punishments ordained for the woman, for man, for the ground for man's sake. God solemnly declared in the beginning that the wages of sin (disobedience) would be death.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/11


Alan 2, Adam and Eve,
Death both ( temporal,) spiritual and eternal. Not only the dissolution of the body, and separation from God, but in the highest sense of the term this threatened penalty "death" in a future and eternal state. by a positive infliction of Divine wrath, and nothing but an intervention of mercy, great enough to satisfy the claims of Justice, could save from this eternal punishment, which the Scriptures speak of as "the Second death" Rev. 20:11-15. If you will notice that Adam hide himself, so do all the lost, they also hide from the Lord. No one seeks after God. Romans 3:11.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/11


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Adam introduced both,spritaul death happen imediately Gen2:16 in the day you eat there of you shall surly die.Notice in the DAY,did not mean later GOD meant THAT SAME DAY,the physical death was at the age of 930.

1stCliff,what is meant by the wages of sin is death.
Do you think that the death mention above is spritaul or physical.
Did not Adam sin.
Are those not of the body of Christ dead yet still living physicaly.
Could you explain spiritual death.

Phsrisee you are right on this 1
---lionel on 1/16/11


Pharisee, you said,
"Natural death is the consequence of God's curse, spiritual alienation is the result of the sin. That in itself is not the condemnation or no one could be saved,"
Scripture says,
"The natural person does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned" Doesn't that tell you while spiritually dead they are not able? They need God to bring them alive to Christ. He has to be born of the Spirit by the Spirit. When a person is physically born, the body is dead already without God.
---Mark_V. on 1/16/11


1Cliff, ""For in the Day that you eat of it you shall surely die" No mention to Adam that a day was 1,000 years or 2,000 years. If God meant 930 years He was deceiving Adam. Your theory goes out the window. Not only about the 930 years but also that Adam did die that day spiritually.
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man ( Adam ) and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" Every descendant of Adam as soon as they are born they are dead in sin, separated from God, yet they are walking around physically. It they were not dead spiritually they would not need to be born again of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 1/16/11


Gen. says absolutely nothing about Adam having a "spiritual death" (this is adding to God's word and corrupting it) Gen says Adam "LIVED" 930 and "THEN" he died. (still within the thousand year YOM =period of time) So no controversy here!
---1st_cliff on 1/16/11


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Both.

Natural death is the consequence of God's curse, spiritual alienation is the result of the sin. That in itself is not the condemnation or no one could be saved, and David could not be "a man after God's own heart" and Job could not have been a "righteous man" AND Jesus wold have to be accounted as a sinner being born as a man knowing good and evil.

Spiritual death however is the result of final condemnation, it cannot be a final matter until the body is dead without God affecting the change in a man's spirit to regenerate it.
---Pharisee on 1/16/11


Only physical. they were already in Gods kingdom & was going to live forever before they sinned.Since then they brought on the physical death, & jesus had to come to correct Adams mistake & be the randsome for all of us.
---candice on 1/16/11


Spiritual death is seperation from GOD.
By one man sin(disobedience)sin fell on all humanity.
Adam was told in the day that you eat of the tree he would surly die.
Adam died that very same day,but not fisical.He(ADAM)intimes passed did not try and hid from because he was inocent,but now concience.
---lionel on 1/16/11


Spiritual death is seperation from GOD.
By one man sin(disobedience)sin fell on all humanity.
Adam was told in the day that you eat of the tree he would surly die.
Adam died that very same day,but not physical.He(ADAM)intimes passed did not try and hid from God because he was inocent,but now concience.
Before disobeying there was no sin,Adam opened the door.
---lionel on 1/16/11


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I would say he brought the spiritual death which came in the disobedient spirit which had him disobey God > "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2). Then this evil spirit produced physical ruin. When demons possessed people, before Jesus cast them out, ones of them produced obvious physical sickness things. And Satan's evil spirit has emotions which are cruel and dominating. Satanic emotions can degrade people so they are deadened from being in God's love so beautifully pure and wonderful and sweetly and tenderly sensitive with hope for all people.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/16/11


Adam and Eve's sin brought both spiritual death and physical death the Bible says.
---Leslie on 1/15/11


alan,
I do not believe A & E introduced either one to our world.They broke an Eden rule and they died from the reprocussions from it.
---earl on 1/15/11


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