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God's Message To Israel

How does Gods message to Israel compare to our message today?

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 ---micha8489 on 1/16/11
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No one will enter heaven without faith in Christ our Lord and His works on the cross. Those Pharisees and Sadducees didn't have real faith like Abraham did, yet they claimed to be his children just like you Trav. John the Baptist also exposed this delusion. John laid the axe to the root of their trees by saying that if they didn't bear good fruit through faith in God like Abraham did, they would be ""cut down" and thrown into the fire" Clearly natural lineage alone is not enough. Without faith and a spiritual connection with the Almighty, those Jews were doomed.
---Mark_V. on 2/8/11


Rev 21:1-8
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.<
Rev 2:16-17
Repent, or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth...
---char on 2/8/11


Which message out of all of the messages from God are you referring to?
---eloy7794 on 2/8/11


...if you are a breaker of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. Therefore, if any uncircumcised man (divorced ethnos of Israel gentilized -mark's bene) keeps righteous requirements of the law.. ---Mark_V. on 2/8/11

Your circular/doc reasoning is dependant of avoiding all OT prophets and witness by Christ.
If one notes above.... keeping righteous "law"...Laws given to Israel only. divorced/gentilized (for mark) of Israel had lost their married name.
Judah was jealous of them re-entering a marriage they were privy too...they perceived.
Jeremiah 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
---Trav on 2/8/11


"For we are the circumcision who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh" Phi. 3:3.---Mark_V. on 2/8/11

Your GOD as well as mine. You would witness well obeying GOD, honoring scriptural rebuke. Your confusion does not teach...U. You have ardor, desire but,don't control it. What you rebuke others on, is never supported to completeness.
By this fact is possible to bring teaching falsely judgment upon yourself. Pointed out by many.

1Tim 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
2Cor 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.
---Trav on 2/8/11




Not everybody that is lost tried to kill Jesus, there are many martyrs that are lost due to genetics etc...
---tonne on 2/8/11


Eph3:14-15,Acts 11:25-27 family reunion prophesied. Yacobs name-changed to Yisrael because Yacobs name represented the old covenant of the law, Yisraels name represents the everlasting covenant of faith (Ps105:8-10,1 Chronicles 16:13-17). Prophecy given in concerning Yacob(name),refers to Abrahams natural seed Deut34:1-4,Deut9:24-29.Prophecy given concerning Yisrael(name) refers to Christians Abrahams spiritual seed Ex 32:13,Joel 2:25-32,Is 49:7-8,2 Corinthians 6:1-2.
Yacob, son of Isaac(Yisrael) 12 Patriarch's, from Yacob(12 fathers)-12 Tribes of Yisrael.(Reuben, Simeon,Levi,Judah,Dan, Naphali,Gad, Asher, Issachar,Zebulun,Joseph, Benjamin). Descendant of two of these Patriarchs (Judah-Levi) is the Mother of the Messiah.
Check/balance-
---char on 2/8/11


Trav, those who are lost that you mentioned tried to kill Jesus and rejected His Word, Paul states of those "in deed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God..For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law, but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. Therefore, if any uncircumcised man (a Gentile) keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter, whose praise is not from man but from God"
---Mark_V. on 2/8/11


Trav 2: Did you hear that? Someone who is called a Jew because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, is "not a Jew" His circumcision has become uncircumcision. To God, he is a Gentile. And the believing Gentile, who through faith keeps "the righteous requirements of the Law" his uncircumcision is "counted as circumcision" To God he is a Jew. "For we are the circumcision who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh" Phi. 3:3.
---Mark_V. on 2/8/11


...aliens from the commonwealth of Israel".. ---Mark_V. on 2/5/11

Being divorced as the Nth House of 10.5 nations of Israel were. They lost their married name. Being mixed among the nations/gentiles/goyim.

They were alienated from the Sth House of Judah and the common-wealth of a joined house.
This house is to be reunited,every prophet/apostle and Christ testify to the fact.

Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31, witnessing make this fact clear....to a Lost Sheep. Others don't like it.
Here is a pearl Lost Sheep, wear. Hebrews 8:10...I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
---Trav on 2/7/11




Trav, ...you are Gods? I don't think so.
You want to include yourself and all of Israel and no one else.
You have to come out of the fog.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/11

You and I are both GOD's to do with as he wants. Leave a light-fog to join with your rebellion/darkness?...no thanks.
Scrpture lists your foundational errors.

Isa8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in there.

Luke 24:44 ....which are written in the law of Moses,and in the prophets and to the psalms...
Luke 16:31 If they hear not Moses and the Prophets...


..... marks easily who doesn't agree/abides/avoids not speaking of or too.
NO LIGHT in Ur Lighthouse>
---Trav on 2/6/11


//In this age of grace everyone is equal//
Every one has the same opportunity
Rom. 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom. 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
---michael_e on 2/5/11


Trav, you say,
"We are GOD's. He will do what he wants to do. Whether it is in the doctrine of markv or not"
you are Gods? I don't think so.
You want to include yourself and all of Israel and no one else. I always wondered why you said the holocaust was the right thing to do. You even gave Scripture. And now you say all Israel but not those Jews. If you only made up your mind, maybe people could understand what you are trying to say. You never answered the question. You are all over the place. Now all of the Jews are Gods.
Believing non-Jews were "once Gentiles...aliens from the commonwealth of Israel" But now in Christ Jesus "Jews and Gentiles have become one" You have to come out of the fog.
---Mark_V. on 2/5/11


Trav, Scripture is given to you and you go right back to the Jews and Heb. 8:8.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/11

Judeans?
ALL Nations of Israel.
Old Covenant Prophets do not post theories. Jesus does not leave theories. All

We are GOD's. He will do what he wants to do. Whether it is in the doctrine of markv or not.

You are rebuked scripturally because scripture rebukes you. You search not for the witness scriptures.
You should not state what cannot be supported. It has caused you scriptural problems.
Honor all GOD's scripture Avoiding/distorting is not honor.
2 Samuel 7:24
For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God.
---Trav on 2/4/11


Trav, Your purpose from the beginning was, that salvation is only for Jews, ---Mark_V. on 2/4/11

If I have a purpose it's to point out that two or more witnesses can free sheep from falsehoods/wolves/money grubbers of today.

Teachers who are not teachers (u),but are conflicts of scripture can be avoided easily by looking to the prophets of the Old Covenant. And aligning them with Christs statements.
Jesus fulfilled all their prophecies....the fulfillment reveals the story of Christ.
He came to find the lost sheep....I search too.
Matthew 10:6
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(Judah was not lost. The nth house was)

I have found you,rather u me. But,You Sir have no marks of a sheep.
---Trav on 2/4/11


Trav, you want to use examples and theories, which are yours of course not from Scripture. Scripture is given to you and you go right back to the Jews and Heb. 8:8.
Your purpose from the beginning was, that salvation is only for Jews, it just took you a long time to admit what you were saying and the reason you scrabble your words. And give parables an allegories.
Why didn't you just come right out and say it? That Only you are saved, and the hell to everyone else. Well, you are wrong, and Scripture proves you wrong. And there is a lot of witnesses.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/11


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Israel(Gen. 12:3,Isa 60:1-16, 61:4-6,)

In this age of grace everyone is equal
---michael_e on 2/4/11

Well...sounds nice but not found in scripture. Lets use an example. Is your wife special? Is she your wife. Or does she share u with other wives?
We know the answer thanks.
Are you Davids equal,Abraham,Moses, Enoch,Noah? Do you reward your good employee's or give them all a socialist bonus.
Just a peek at one of your scriptures...
Isaiah 60
12For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish, yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
Hmmm.
There are 13 terms used for strangers in scripture. Most are relations.
Ask Balaam for directions.
---Trav on 2/4/11


Gentiles in Time Past were "without hope" on the wrong side of the middle wall of partition.

Salvation for Gentile's in Time Past? Gentiles had to become proselytes, be circumcised and become a Jew, member of the nation Israel, as many did
Est. 8:17:
Exod 12:48 a proselyte held the same status as "one that is born in the land." now on the right side of the middle wall of partition.

Another way, put himself in the place of blessing by blessing Israel. Taking a place of submission and service to Israel, a Gentile could be blessed through Israel(Gen. 12:3,Isa 60:1-16, 61:4-6,)

Jesus refers to this during the days of Elijah and Elisha (Luke 4:25-27)

In this age of grace everyone is equal
---michael_e on 2/4/11


Trav, of course the elect of Israel are a part of the Church.
The wall had come down. ---Mark_V. on 2/4/11

What you cannot see, is not mine to open too you.
These Judeans were speaking of the divorced ethnos/brother nations of Israel. The Nth House/Sth House.
This was the wall of separation. The OT prophets testify of. It is broken/joined in Heb8:8/Jer 31:31.
You honor not...so you see/hear not. (Ur personal/ity wall)
Eze 37:18 when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
28 The heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 2/4/11


Trav, of course the elect of Israel are a part of the Church. As the early Church expanded into the Roman world, this question was raised,"Is our Messiah only for us? What about the Gentiles?" Then, unexpectedly, God's Spirit fell on non-Jews (Acts 10:44-45). Slowly, narrowness and prejudice broke down. A Jewish council of believers convened in Jerusalem to discuss "the Jew-Gentile issue" (Acts 15). The Spirit of the Lord broke through the fog and revealed what had been accomplished by the Messiah. The wall had come down. It was demolished by the passion of Christ, by His cross. What you are attempting to do is to keep the wall up.
---Mark_V. on 2/4/11


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Trav,
What does change are the Covenants .....

....they were to be passed to the Gentiles.

One of the mysteries that was hidden was that Jews and Gentiles would be one in the Church.---Mark_V. on 2/3/11

Lets look at who the covenant change addressed, two parties Divorced/gentilized Nth house Israel and Judah: Heb 8:8Hebrews 8:8
....I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Eze 16:60Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in days of thy youth, I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.
Which part of "Ever-Lasting" can be elaborated on, 2 u here?
Church is Israel. Both Sticks/Houses United. The world does observe but doesn't see.
---Trav on 2/3/11


Trav, what you fail to grasp, for some unknown reason, is that when it says God never changes, the Bible is talking about His Nature, Character, and Attributes. His being never changes.
What does change are the Covenants and the duties He gave to His disciples. At one point only Israel had the promises, then they were to be passed to the Gentiles. One of the mysteries that was hidden was that Jews and Gentiles would be one in the Church (Eph. 3:3-6) This were not his own instructions. Ananias was given the word to give to Paul
"But the Lord said to him, Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel"
---Mark_V. on 2/3/11


How does Gods message to Israel compare to our message today?----blog question

GOD never changes, men do. Men change the message. Witnessed on this site, for example. Not on purpose,except by few.
Christ stated came to save that which was lost. Commanding the disciples/Apostles to do the same.
We confidently know that Saul/Paul, or any 11 Apostles did not disobey Christ or any Prophet. Rather they reference to them. Few Churches do, fewer on this site.
Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Judah was not lost.....the lost sheep were the divorced Nth House Nations of Israel. Initial Key part of Christ's message...but, you don't/won't hear it.....today.
---trav on 2/2/11


Paul was - is - the apostle to the Gentiles. He preached the gospel of the grace of God. He did not preach the gospel of the kingdom. When Paul preached to the Jews he "proved" to them that the Lord Jesus Christ was Messiah. He didn't offer them the kingdom, he did offer them real time salvation and freedom from the law. Paul did have a ministry of provocation to Israel but he never offered them the kingdom.
---michael_e on 2/1/11


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James L, thanks for your answer. I take that with heart. I do though disagree with kathr on just about everything. Reason been that she knows little about Scripture but rejects everything I say for the purpose of slandering. For about two or three years now, every subject or topic is wrong to her, but all she does is give opinions and when she does provide a passage she changes the meaning of the passage. It isn't because I think I know more then her, but because the Truth is twisted for a lie, even the deity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit take a hit every time she talks. I can understand that we could disagree on one topic or another, but she disagrees to distort what I say. So for the purpose of the Truth I answer her.
---Mark_V. on 2/1/11


Hence why drugs are illegal...
You are really flying on that wheel there rufus..
---micha9344 on 1/31/11


God created thr world in 6 days then rested and then created Adam and Eve in paradise. As punishment for their sin He reemoved them to earth. Following their envolvement with the aborigines God flooded their land saving only Noah and his family for only they were perfect in their generations. That's why their were no aborigines in Europe. As it was at the time of Noah so shall it be when Jesus comes back. 6 peoples from 6 places across 6 waters.
---RUFUS_FLYWHEEL on 1/31/11


You enter some interesting points. If you would want to email me some of your thoughts, I'd sure take a look.
---James_L on 1/25/11

Here are some scriptural statements,posted earlier.
Psalm 94:14
For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.

Deuteronomy 32:9
For the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were UNDER the first Covenant, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
---Trav on 1/26/11
---Trav on 1/31/11


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I NEVER initiate a debate by accusing someone of being unlearned or ignorant.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Maybe you should get your little sister to debate for you next time.
---James_L on 1/27/11

People try to feel larger by making what they are fearful of smaller. And usually resort to the tactic you mentioned. Self esteem is a little lacking.
Now a truth is a different matter, Jesus called some serpents...it fit.
When they called you unlearned...they meant in their man doctrine...if they didn't have two+ scripture witnesses.
Which we can be thankful for being ignorant of the time wasted and confusion in "mens" doctrine....by following GOD, Prophets/Apostles.
---Trav on 1/28/11


MarkV,

brother, it's good to see that when we disagree that it's peaceful. I appreciate when we disagree because we have never hurled insults at each other.

No need to apologize.

Iron sharpens iron
---James_L on 1/28/11


Luke 12:32:
God called a group of Jewish believers out of religious Israel. He chose 12 Apostles, head Apostles, Peter, James and John.

Who does Peter write to?
Ex 19:5-6:...ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:...
1 Peter 2:9-12: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people,...
---michael_e on 1/27/11

Exactly. 12 Apostles. Twelve. Should be the first clue. 10 Virgins. Nth House Nations divorced.

Royal Priesthood...chosen.

All the marks/signs are there for those who can tie them together.
The ones you used above are the ones that turned the lights on for me. Along with a few thousand others now.
---Trav on 1/27/11


Luke 12:32:
God called a group of Jewish believers out of religious Israel. He chose 12 Apostles, head Apostles, Peter, James and John.

Acts 8:1 Comes a persecution against the Jerusalem Church and believers were scattered . (EXCEPT THE 12)Later the apostles meet in Jerusalem God(HS) separates the Apostles for the work of the ministry.

Gal.2:6-9: Paul and Barnabas' ministry to the "heathen"
Peter, James, John to the Jews, with the Gospel of the circumcision.
Who does Peter write to?
Ex 19:5-6:...ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:...
1 Peter 2:9-12: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people,...
---michael_e on 1/27/11


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leej,
look, you first approached me with a condescending attitude that I should learn something, and I'm ignorant of doctrine. You did it to Kathr, too.

You have no idea how many books are in my library, how many doctoral dissertations and commentaries I have read, how many papers I've written, etc. It could be 10,000 or it could be none. Who cares? Books and certificates do not make the man of God, GOD does.

I NEVER initiate a debate by accusing someone of being unlearned or ignorant.

But if you open a debate that way, you had better eat your wheaties 'cause it's coming.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Maybe you should get your little sister to debate for you next time.
---James_L on 1/27/11


James L, you are correct in your answer and I was totally reading some passage other then Deut. 32:9 but for the life of me I don't know from where. I have no idea where I saw "Possession" instead of "inheritance" Not one clue. I went back to check and I apologize for my mistake. Deut. 32:9 does say "inheritance" My definition of inheritance was correct. At least I had one part right. I will keep looking from where I got possession from. Now, that will be my task for I do not want to give any wrong information.
---Mark_V. on 1/27/11


\\What God gave in Deut. 32:9 was "for a possession." Not for an inheritance.\\
---Mark_V. on 1/26/11

MarkV,
I diagree.

'Thus says the Lord GOD, "If the prince gives a gift out of his inheritance to any of his sons, it shall belong to his sons, it is their possession by inheritance. (Eze 46:16)

We ourselves will cross over armed in the presence of the LORD into the land of Canaan, and the possession of our inheritance shall remain with us across the Jordan. (Num 32:32)

Your possession which You have given us as an inheritance. (2 Chron 20:11)

The inheritance is a possession. You are right tha Jesus is the scource of our inheritance - IF we suffer with Him (Rom 8:17, Heb 9:15)
---James_L on 1/26/11


James_L
//But stalking me from one topic to another won't rescue you from the trouncing I'm handing you in the other thread

Anyone that is a genuine Christian can expect those who say they are Christians but are not, to have verbal rocks thrown at them.

John 15:20f Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you, if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
But all these things will they do unto you for my names sake, because they know not him that sent me.

And you have only convinced me that you are not a Christian nor are a good person.
---leej on 1/26/11


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What God gave in Deut. 32:9 was "for a possession." Not for an inheritance.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/11

More importantly is to acknowledge who this inheritance was too.
Found 203 times in scripture.
Deuteronomy 32:9
For the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were UNDER the first Covenant, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
---Trav on 1/26/11


Inheritance is not found in Deut. 32:9 as was stated here. Inheritance, when concerning believers has two different applications, the first while a person is saved and alive, the second is, after this life.
What God gave in Deut. 32:9 was "for a possession." Not for an inheritance.
Jesus Christ is the believers source of their inheritance. He provides every believer with all necessary spiritual gifts found in Eph. 1:3-4. Paul was praying that believers will have the disposition of godly knowledge and insight of which the sanctified mind is capable (v.8) so as to grasp the greatness of the hope (Rom. 8:29, 1 John 3:2) and the inheritance that is theirs in Christ (v.3-20).
---Mark_V. on 1/26/11


You enter some interesting points. If you would want to email me some of your thoughts, I'd sure take a look.
---James_L on 1/25/11


Scripture does enter some points...for some. Lets keep it on here if you don't mind for now.
As you have noticed, scripture speaks to those that have ears and eyes for it, or it ignored or come against. Either serves an educational purpose.
Perhaps a Sheep will graze and be filled through the dialogue with witnessing scriptures supporting.
Isaiah 9:8
The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
---Trav on 1/26/11


God's message, today, is the same. So, our message needs to be the same. And I think of how Jesus prayed for us to be one as He and the Father are one. Jesus prayed, "Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are." (in John 17:11) I think of how beautifully and sweetly intimate our Heavenly Father and Jesus are in their oneness with Each Other. And Jesus has claimed in prayer that we also will be one in love like He is with our Father. In His love this is how his children are, and Jesus claimed this with His prayer, according to His faith. So, Satan is decoying people's attention away from this, of course, as you can see in this blog.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/26/11


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james_l, the Father through me gave you a meaty portion in another blog, but the Father through you gave me a full course meal. THANKS, I am full.

A great thread indeed.
---aka on 1/26/11


I see it as far more identical than different. The law applies to all mankind (Jew or Gentile) along with its purpose, blessings and curses. But only now, God will be more gracious to Jews in not rejecting them once and for all (Rom 11). This is on account of Abraham and the role Jews have played for salvation of the whole world. Other than that I think Gentiles will even share in the inheritance rights through Jesus. Coz only in Jesus DO JEWS AND GENTILES ALIKE relate to God as Father.
---hop on 1/26/11


I love you, leej.

But stalking me from one topic to another won't rescue you from the trouncing I'm handing you in the other thread
---James_L on 1/25/11


//Thanks for the kind words. I, too, was raised on all sorts of bad doctrine. My mother had a hodge-podge mixed from RCC, LDS, JW, baptist, Church of Christ, Holiness churches, you name it.

And you say I am a mess!

With that kind of background, it is a wonder you are not in some kind of institution. (Maybe you are already in one!)

Are you now is what most consider a cult?

No wonder you hate those that are regarded as teachers of His church.

Poor Soul, now I know what kind of garbage dumps you came out of.

When will you get it all together?

Perhaps you could go back to the basis of the Christian faith and find out what it is all about from a Biblical standpoint.
---leej on 1/25/11


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Trav,
Thanks for the kind words. I, too, was raised on all sorts of bad doctrine. My mother had a hodge-podge mixed from RCC, LDS, JW, baptist, Church of Christ, Holiness churches, you name it.

I didn't hear the gospel until I was 27, though I was raised in a "Christian" home and church.

You enter some interesting points. If you would want to email me some of your thoughts, I'd sure take a look. Jamea3384 is my CN penpal name. I can give you my email address from there.
---James_L on 1/25/11


Thx Trav-Twins-interesting subject...to say the lest...
---char on 1/22/11

Interesting that it is still applicable for and in our times. Maybe even more so to explain some of the astounding things that men are saying and doing. Things that are fulfilling scripture and actually making dim scripture clear, by sign and mark.
Deuteronomy 32:9
For the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
Isaiah 2:5
O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
Hosea 12:12
And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep.
---Trav on 1/25/11


Trav part 1,
what I mean is that people see the words "saved" or "salvation" and have a one track mind, thinking it means only "go to heaven".---James_L on 1/22/11

Well James, accurate insight, good study on another limb(inheritance)on the tree of scripture. Your post/scripture added a deeper insight for me in part on the scriptural tree. There are a lot of limbs supporting/branching, furthering your position on inheritance.
I post that I had a bad (milk)theological/doctrinal foundation most of my life. I'm very understanding of the seminary (cemetary) source and cure. Christ blessing, with two + scriptural witnesses.
I post scriptures for for the same as you.
---Trav on 1/25/11


Trav on 1/22/11//
Understood.
Inheritance-alrealdy given up-To that subject-I look at This cycle-In flesh-viewing the witness(image)of both Kingdoms-one seen dimly.Jn18:36
Mal 1:2-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD.Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD:yet I loved Jacob,
And I hated Esau,(Heb-Loved Less-Gods action)-laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Rom9:11-12 For the children being not yet born,neither having done any good or evil,that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,It was said unto her, The elder shall(Serve) the younger.
Thx Trav-Twins-interesting subject...to say the lest...
---char on 1/22/11


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Trav part 1,
what I mean is that people see the words "saved" or "salvation" and have a one track mind, thinking it means only "go to heaven".

They try to blend all the requirements, or just ignore some. Eiher way they contradict scripture or their own theology.

Then they see the phrase "inherit the kingdom" and think it means "go to heaven", and add even more works and confusing people with bad theology.

Some twist scripture to mean that works are the inevitable result of justification, while others say works help get us to heaven. Bad theology because people are trying to "work out their salvation", having no idea what it means.
---James_L on 1/22/11


Trav part 2,
The same people glance over the NT teachings on suffering, and miss how suffering is tied to our inheritance.

Hebrews 1:14 we will "inherit salvation".

Keep reading, 2:8-16 say that Jesus was made perfect through suffering, and that glory and honor were bestowed on Him because of it. That He is bringing many sons to glory. Glory can't simply be heaven, because that would mean that Jesus got "saved"

Romans chapters 8:14-12:2 the same subject, inheritance.

But many have taken them out of context, wrongly teaching predestination for heaven from ch 9, confession/sinner's prayer from chapter 10, and from ch 11 that Gentiles couldn't have eternal life until after Pentecost.
---James_L on 1/22/11


Thanks Trav-agreed.

God will not tolerate those Definitively against Him-yet(if)They witness(see)True forgiveness-the door is open.

)-his offspring-Kenites(sons-offspring,no gender implied)-intermixed with some-true Tribe of Judah.
---char on 1/21/11

I've read...Esau also sought forgiveness but,.....
There is an intermix....note that some speaking to Christ said they were never under bondage in NT. The only way they could have been lineage of Abraham Jacob was Esau....and not have been under bondage at any time.
Herod was a known mix and couldn't even go into the Temple he built....I've read.
---Trav on 1/22/11


Trav,
You do make some interesting points about the tribes.

it's too bad that most today don't want to think of an inheritance as different from being saved from hell. It makes for a whole lot of bad theology to get the two blended
---James_L on 1/21/11

Explain a little farther James....Elaborate more on the bad theology blending.

If I apply "grave", to hell as it is used most times....we still have the scriptural connection here.
---Trav on 1/22/11


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Trav,
You do make some interesting points about the tribes.

it's too bad that most today don't want to think of an inheritance as different from being saved from hell. It makes for a whole lot of bad theology to get the two blended
---James_L on 1/21/11


Thanks Trav-agreed.I see-Witness of forgiveness-record of cain.God will not tolerate those Definitively against Him-yet(if)They witness(see)True forgiveness-the door is open.Although-not all repent-Based on their Own resistance-not because they were created Not to do so.Neither bride or groom but quest at the wedding.
Cain-marked-Placed out of God presence-Jn 8:34-38 Gen4:8-15 (ah-von-meaning crooked/twisted-Action)but translated (Punishment).He was instead saddened by his(actions)-not (Punishment)-sill placed out of God presence-yet-still protected vs 15.Not of the 12 tribes of Jacob(Israel and Judah combined)-his offspring-Kenites(sons-offspring,no gender implied)-intermixed with some-true Tribe of Judah.
I too-Subject to error-Humble.
---char on 1/21/11


....promise of an inheritance was made to Abraham before any of the tribes were even in existance
---James_L on 1/20/11

I didn't read your post, probably the way you intended. These ethnos/gentiles are/were Israel. I see what you are referring too on inheritance. The search added to what I already have found witnessed. So it's all good.
Numbers 36:7
So shall not the inheritance of the children of Israel remove from tribe to tribe: for every one of the children of Israel shall keep himself to the inheritance of the tribe of his fathers.
Hebrews 9:15 ... that by means of death, for the redemption of transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
---Trav on 1/21/11


Law paves the way for Christ espousement to the New Israel,Hosea,Deuteronomy 24:1-4,2 Cor 11:1-3,Rev 19:5-10 - Ephesians 5:25-33). Are we on the same page here Trav?---char on 1/20/11

Nearer than most. All mankind, is not witnessed scripturally in the new marriage....or in the old. It is the same nations to be remarried as it was in the old.
All prophets testify,Christ and Apostles.
This is a hard pill for anyone who is not comfortable with GOD as a Husband choosing the wife that he did/will. Israel was despised then....and now....noticably avoided scripturally here.
Call it, climbing in another way.
Luke 2:34.. Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel, ...
---Trav on 1/21/11


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...Trav on 1/17/11//
To this I agree.
I do see them as a witness to all mankind(souls in flesh).The true Love of God. (Forsaken but He forgave) Jer3:1-They say,If a man(God)put away his wife(Israel),and she go from him, and become another mans(Satans),shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers, yet return to Me, saith the LORD.

Death and Resurrection--New Man being Christ to the wife to be-New Yerusalem.
Law paves the way for Christ espousement to the New Israel,Hosea,Deuteronomy 24:1-4,2 Cor 11:1-3,Rev 19:5-10 - Ephesians 5:25-33).
Repentance unto Remission
Are we on the same page here Trav?
---char on 1/20/11


Trav,
It seems as though all your replies take a left turn on a tangental issue.

You made the statement:
You are assuming "gentiles" is not Israel. The word is a misunderstood mistranslation, in latin no less(a clue).

My last post addressed that statement, from Romans 11

I didn't see anything in your last post that would pertain.

Maybe 125 words aren't enough to make your point, but it seems that you are making everything out of the tribes splitting, but the promise of an inheritance was made to Abraham before any of the tribes were even in existance
---James_L on 1/20/11


This "salvation" is not redemption, but an inheritance---James_L on 1/19/11

Inherit Salvation? Perhaps the opportunity. Technically, there are several things in place. Christ came for, died for All/Israel. The former wife, Nth house of Israel was freed in death for remarriage. Judah,not divorced was freed also. See Heb 8:8...
Redemption, is to buy back that which was previously his own.
Salvation is...from death.
Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the goy, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
---Trav on 1/20/11


Acts 11:19: "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only."

At this religious Israel refused to repent. God chooses to set her aside.

Rom 11:11: "I say then, Have stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

At this point in time God interrupts Israels program and starts the dispensation of grace , something brand new called the church the body of Christ.

This is the one new man as Eph 2:15 states.
---michael_e on 1/20/11


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Trav,
Romans 11:

"What ISRAEL is seeking, it has not obtained, but those whe were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened" (v 7)

"But by THEIR (ISRAEL's) transgression salvation has come to the GENTILES, to make THEM jealous" (v 12)

"THEY were broken off for their unbelief, but YOU stand by your faith" (v 20)

"a partial hardening has happened to ISRAEL until the fulness of the GENTILES has come in" (v 25)

"and so all ISRAEL will be saved, as it is written" (v 26)

I know "ethnos" is nations. The "nations" are contrasted with "Israel" in this passage. This "salvation" is not redemption, but an inheritance
---James_L on 1/19/11


Since they failed to embrace the true Heir, they were cut off from their inheritance and it was offered to the Gentiles.
---James_L on 1/17/11

Judah was cut for a period.
You are assuming "gentiles" is not Israel. The word is a misunderstood mistranslation, in latin no less(a clue).
It would assist some if it was ethnos or even nations. Which would imply the ethnos of divorced Israel. Which, is easily seen in Heb 8:8. The two houses/sticks are joined together. All the prophets testify. We mostly choose to ignore them. Assuming it excludes us.
---Trav on 1/19/11


Trav,
You'll have to give an explanation of your explanation.

I'm not sure how you're connecting the lost tribes with a faulty understanding. Maybe you meant God forgot about them? He inspired Paul to write: "all Israel will be saved" (Romans 11:26).

Paul goes on to say "He will remove ungodliness from JACOB".

Explain, please, what exactly you were getting at because I didn't get it, whatever it was. I'm all ears.
---James_L on 1/18/11


Israel was not "chosen" or "elect" in Abraham to be the recipients of eternal life, but to be the recipients of an INHERITANCE through his seed (Christ).
---James_L on 1/17/11

Well, it does appear that way when we have been taught that "jews" Judah only, comprise all 12 nations of Israel. But, we/you err in forgetting the other nations of Israel that are not searched for or recognized. GOD mentioned them as divorced,punished then remarried. The NCovenant Heb 8:8 mentioned them. To the end of Revelations they are found. Except by themselves or Christian claimers.
---Trav on 1/17/11


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God required Israel to repent (change their mind), to acknowledge or admit that they had sinned, broken their agreement. God was willing to forgive them and honor the Abrahamic Covenant, to bless them with physical, earthly blessings. If they didn't repent, he would continue to curse them.
Lev. 26:40-46:
What did God mean by confess? Did God want the nation of Israel to confess or name each individual sin? Could a person remember every sin theyve committed, even in one day? No. God wanted Israel to admit they had broken their agreement.

Our message today 1 Cor 15:1-4
---michael_e on 1/17/11


Israel was not "chosen" or "elect" in Abraham to be the recipients of eternal life, but to be the recipients of an INHERITANCE through his seed (Christ).

Since they failed to embrace the true Heir, they were cut off from their inheritance and it was offered to the Gentiles.

Eternal life has always been available to all people. Ruth, Rahab, Ninevires, et al were Gentiles in the OT, and after Pentecost many Jews have become believers.

Gentiles are not "chosen" or "elect" for eternal life, but for an inheritance which was never intened for us. This is the "salvation" which came to Gentiles, which Paul preached. Through faith in Abraham's Heir (Christ).
---James_L on 1/17/11


The message to Israel was REPENT.

No change.
---Pharisee on 1/16/11

This is true....and confirmed in the Old Testament. Therefore he divorced the Nth house of Israel....but, Judah played the Harlot as well.

Christ came to Judah, his own. Judah did not repent....but, the Lost Sheep have/will. See Jacobs daughter at the well and many more.
Divorced Israel has/is/will repent....as well as true Judah...when they kneel at the end.
---Trav on 1/17/11


\\Cluny, I completely agree with your answer. The fact is that dispensation theology does separate the Church and Israel. As two different entities.\\

And as I said, that's one of pre-mill dispensationalism's many errors.
---Cluny on 1/17/11


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Romans 2:

24 "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written."

28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:"

29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God."
---christan on 1/17/11


Word of God Does not change.

Father has chosen the Bride for His Son.
Virgin-Bride and Groom
Christ-The Groom and Head of His Body.Eph2:15
Bride-chaste Virgin.
Satan still-attempts- seduction.
Isaiah 61:10-11 ...my soul shall be joyful in my God, for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Jer31:3-12(all)
4Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O Virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry

-Forsaken and Forgiven- Is 54:5-8,Is 62:3-5
---char on 1/17/11


Cluny, I completely agree with your answer. The fact is that dispensation theology does separate the Church and Israel. As two different entities. While Israel is mentioned all through the Old Testament, those who believed by faith became the "Spiritual Israel" of God the Church of God. When Stephen looked back into history, he called Israel in Moses time "the Church in the wilderness." When salvation came to the Gentiles, after the resurrection, and beginning at Pentecost, those who were saved by grace through faith also become the "spiritual Israel" of God, mentioned in Galatians 6:16, made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah. Both are the Church of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/11


Repentance is for EVERY one in EVERY generation. If you are in Christ, you are now Israel according to the Bible.
---Leslie on 1/16/11


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Repent Is Right. God gave Apostle Peter The God Given Salvation Plan, Acts 2 v 38 to give to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost. The Same came unto us gentiles, & The Same again Will be to the 144 thousand Jews at the appointed time.
---Lawrence on 1/16/11


The message to Israel was REPENT.

No change.
---Pharisee on 1/16/11


It's two parts of the same message.

Israel's mission was to prepare the world for Jesus Christ.

But this is one of the many faults of pre-mil dispensationalism: it separates Israel from the Church, and makes they assumption they are two different entities.
---Cluny on 1/16/11


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