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Who Is The Scarlet Colored Beast

Revelation verse 17 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns." Can you name the woman and the scarlet colored beast?

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 ---mima on 1/16/11
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Next time you see the Roman Catholic Church in their full regal notice how much scarlet is visible.
---mima on 2/28/11


\\How does the wicked get to heaven so that they can be made corpses and ashes for the righteous to tramp on?\\

This is a teaching of the SDA.

After the Rapture and Millennium--which is spent in heaven--the wicked are resurrected only to be burned up, along with Satan.

They are burned up on earth, leaving a big mess behind.

This teaching makes God a vindictive sadist.
---Cluny on 2/28/11


francis, all your references happen 'before' the new heaven and new earth..
---micha9344 on 1/29/11

You really did not know that the wicked will be destroyed BEFORE the new heaven and new earth are done? Or are you one of those who believe that the wicked will be alive in a lake of fire and not die and just keep burning for eternity?
---francis on 1/30/11


Precisely, francis..
You deny carcases in heaven(v24), yet say there is a sabbath in heaven(v23) relating back, as you say, to the new heaven and new earth..
Your denial of one side but not the other should make you reevaluate your interpration of Isa 66:22-24, but it does not.
Furthurmore, you said that you would not reply if I continued in this 'foolishness' and yet you still do... your integrity and honesty has faltered and revealed themselves as false.
Since you have already broken your word, you might as well continue to reply and not worry about witnessing against yourself.
---micha9344 on 1/30/11


You still deny that your interpretation forces the wicked into heaven an thus their corpses. Again your denial must force you to reconsider your interpretation of Isa 66:22-24
---micha9344 on 1/29/11

SInce i have NEVER said in any post that sinners go to heaven it is YOUR interpretation of the scriptures and my post that place sinners in heaven
---francis on 1/29/11




francis, all your references happen 'before' the new heaven and new earth..
'If not i will have to stop responding to your post. I can deal with a genuine missunderstanding, but your foolishness must cease'-francis on 1/28/11
I must still be speaking foolishness to you, therefore keep your word and not respond.
You still deny that your interpretation forces the wicked into heaven an thus their corpses. Again your denial must force you to reconsider your interpretation of Isa 66:22-24
Please keep your word and not make a liar out of yourself.
---micha9344 on 1/29/11


Michael hhere it is in three passages,please read each passage entirely BEFORE you post again

Malachi 3:17-Malachi 4:3 for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this,

Isaiah 66:15-Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me:

Revelation 20:11-Revlation 21:1 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:

All thre passages says
1: The lord wil come back to judge ( destroy the wicked)
2: The righteous will witness their destruction
3: 2 of the passages speak of new heaven alongside the destruction of the wicked.
---francis on 1/29/11


Isa 66:22-24 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
francis, if you force the sabbath into the new heaven, you must also force the carcases of the wicked into the same realm.
Since you deny this, then your interpretation is incorrect..
---micha9344 on 1/29/11


How does the wicked get to heaven
---micha9344 on 1/27/11
Where did you see, in scripture or in anything i posted the wicked getting to heaven?
And show me in anything i posted or in any sripture corpses in heaven?

If not i will have to stop responding to your post. I can deal with a genuine missunderstanding, but your foolishness must cease
---francis on 1/28/11


I forgot to mention that Poppea Sabina was one of the wives of Nero, whose Greek name and title, NERON KAISAR, adds up to 666.
---Cluny on 1/28/11




\\The beast is the same with that in Rev_13:1 as the description shows, and is no other than the Roman empire as Papal, the "scarlet" color is expressive of its imperial dignity, its power and authority, it received from the dragon, and also of this beast's cruelty and tyranny, and of its shedding the blood of the saints: the woman sitting upon it is the great city of Rome.
\\

Many scholars have found the harlot to be Poppea Sabina, who was Jewish and hated Christians, as being the model for the woman.
---Cluny on 1/27/11


Mima, this is what I found...


The beast is the same with that in Rev_13:1 as the description shows, and is no other than the Roman empire as Papal, the "scarlet" color is expressive of its imperial dignity, its power and authority, it received from the dragon, and also of this beast's cruelty and tyranny, and of its shedding the blood of the saints: the woman sitting upon it is the great city of Rome.
---larry on 1/27/11


Wow, such misinterpretation...
How does the wicked get to heaven so that they can be made corpses and ashes for the righteous to tramp on?
Your timeline is very skewed...
---micha9344 on 1/27/11


How does the seven heads and ten horns relate to the Sabbath?
---larry on 1/27/11

I have NO IDEA.
I asked him about eastern orthodox, and pointed out to him that the very first christians were all jews, all in jerusalem, and then he asked me about sabbath.

I have already names this woman she is the RCC
---francis on 1/27/11


Don't forget about those carcases in heaven...
---micha9344 on 1/27/11
First of all, I did not write it so take it us with God.
Second of all the text does NOT speak of crcases in heaven.
Third your hermeneuticskills are lacking
So in my next post i wil show you the same thng in other passages.
---francis on 1/27/11


Michael hhere it is in three passages,

Malachi 3:17-Malachi 4:3 for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this,

Isaiah 66:15-Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me:

Revelation 20:11-Revlation 21:1 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:

All thre passages says
1: The lord wil come back to judge ( destroy the wicked)
2: The righteous will witness their destruction
3: 2 of the passages speak of new heaven alongside the destruction of the wicked.
---francis on 1/27/11


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Francis and Cluny, brethren.......to what question are you responding?
How does the seven heads and ten horns relate to the Sabbath?
---larry on 1/27/11


Don't forget about those carcases in heaven...
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Unless francis has an incorrect interpretation of Isa 66:22-23...hhmmm...
---micha9344 on 1/27/11


--Cluny on 1/26/11

SEE Isaiah 56:6
Ac SABBATH
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

If the ONLY time i could here the word of God was on sabbath, then I am commanded by God to keep sabbath

ALSO it is manditory in the new heaven and new earth
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD
---francis on 1/27/11


You've not yet told us who gave you the authority to say that Gentiles have to observe the Sabbath and abstain from pork.
---Cluny on 1/26/11
Isaiah 56:1 Thus saith the LORD,
Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,


1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer

the answer is GOD/ THE LORD said to keep his sabbath and eat what is good for food as is SANCTIFIED BY THE WORD OF GOD
---francis on 1/27/11


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CLUNY 3/3 SABBATH
Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Why are these gentiles requesting the word of God NEXT SABBATH?

Acts 13:44 next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

They waited 1 whole week, because there was no christian assemble next day

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every SABBATH day.

Why is the word of God preached every SABBATH?
The answer is obvious. If there were christians meeting every sunday the text would read:

Acts 15:21 being read in the synagogues every FIRST day.

Your claims are unbiblical
---francis on 1/26/11


\\---Cluny on 1/26/11
your question suggest that there is some type of law or passage scriptiure or text which prohibs circumcision.\\

You've not yet told us who gave you the authority to say that Gentiles have to observe the Sabbath and abstain from pork.
---Cluny on 1/26/11


---Cluny on 1/26/11
your question suggest that there is some type of law or passage scriptiure or text which prohibs circumcision.
More than that it suggests that because the NT says that no believer NEEDS to be circumcized that they do not have to keep the sabbath or dietary laws either.

So I will answer in THREE POSTS:
Acts 15:1 circumcised,
Acts 15:5 circumcise,
Acts 15:24 circumcised,
Acts 21:21 circumcise,
Galatians 2:3 circumcised,
Galatians 5:2 circumcised,
Galatians 5:3 circumcised,
Galatians 6:12 circumcised,
Galatians 6:13 circumcised

9 times the issue is mention 9 times all text says iircumcision. So you are presumpsion to add anything else.

1 of 3
---francis on 1/26/11


CLUNY 2/3 DIETARY LAWS:

Acts 15:20.. abstain from ...from things strangled, and from blood.

All these are taken from the " OT dietary law." So we can see that the OT dietary laws as you call them are not abolised.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:17 Peter doubted in himself what this vision.. mean
PETER's ONLY interpretation:
Acts 10:28 God hath shewed me that I should not call any MAN common or unclean.

Matthew 15:20to eat with UNWASHEN HANDS defileth not a man. (not eat unclean)

wHAT CAN BE EATEN:
1 Timothy 4:5.. sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

list what is sanctified by WORD of God for food.
---francis on 1/26/11


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\\ am not sure what commandment you are referring to.
I saw a text of scripture posted, but i did not see a question about any commandment.
---francis on 1/26/11\\

Here you go:

cts 15: But some believers from the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, It is necessary to circumcise them AND to order them to keep the law of Moses.

(15:24) Forasmuch we have heard certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, ... saying, Ye must be circumcised, AND keep the law: to whom we gave NO SUCH commandment:

Who gave you the direction to tell Gentile Christians they must keep Jewish and OT dietary laws? Certainly not the apostles and elders of Jerusalem.
---Cluny on 1/26/11


Cluny - If Francis and Jerry recognize the existence of the ancient Apostolic churches you mentioned, and that they never were under the auspices of Rome and did not observe the OT sabbath they must certainly have a problem with olde Ellen White as she never heard of them.

No wonder there are some that have left the Adventist church upon recognizing the truth.

Poor souls, when will their eyes be open to the truth?
---leej on 1/26/11


I've asked francis who gave him this commandment, but he never answers.
---Cluny on 1/24/11
I am not sure what commandment you are referring to.
I saw a text of scripture posted, but i did not see a question about any commandment.
---francis on 1/26/11


\\Cluny when you say EASTERN ORTHODOX what exactly does eastern mean?
...
---francis on 1/25/11\\

I noticed you didn't actually answer my question, francis, though I'll try to answer yours.

1. Eastern Orthodox is a generic term, including Greeks, Russians, Romanians, Antiochians, and those from eastern countries who cleave to the Orthodox faith.

It is EASTERN as opposed to Roman Catholicism, which is Western, and from which Protestantism came.

Eastern is also used to be distinguished from the ORIENTAL Orthodox (Copts, Armenians, Syriacs, and Ethiopians) who do not accept the Council of Chalcedon.
---Cluny on 1/25/11


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Cluny when you say EASTERN ORTHODOX what exactly does eastern mean?
Is it east jerusalem where christianity started with the resurrection of jesus?

Where exactly is this EAST place.
east 125th street and jerusalem?
---francis on 1/25/11


I think Leej, and cluny need to read more about the covenant of circumcision.

It is a blood covenant, which is symbolic of the removal of the flesh ( meaning the carnal mind) to accept by faith the blessing of abraham.

Once the messiah came, there is no need of circumcision by neither jew or greek.

ONCE THE MESSIAH THE PROMISED SON HAS COME, THE COVENANT IS FULFILED.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
---francis on 1/25/11


LEEJ and CLUNY please stay on topic. If you want to talk about circumcision, start a circumcision blog. That way we can discuss the reason for having, and not having circumcision.

But I see you guys are getting SPANKED on this scarlet colored beast blog and trying to change the subject.
---francis on 1/25/11


\\(15:24) Forasmuch we have heard certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, ... saying, Ye must be circumcised, AND keep the law: to whom we gave NO SUCH commandment:
---leej on 1/24/11\\

I've asked francis who gave him this commandment, but he never answers.
---Cluny on 1/24/11


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Francis refers to scripture pertaining to the earliest church prior to any Gentiles coming into the church.

However, Jerusalem had to decide if Gentiles needed be circumcised - after which one would have to observe all the laws of Judaism.

Since the decision was that Gentile converts needed not convert to Judaism, strictly Jewish laws/customs were not imposed on them.

Acts 15: But some believers from the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, It is necessary to circumcise them AND to order them to keep the law of Moses.

(15:24) Forasmuch we have heard certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, ... saying, Ye must be circumcised, AND keep the law: to whom we gave NO SUCH commandment:
---leej on 1/24/11


And there were some who converted to Christ who were no where near Judaism, either as proselytes or "theofovoumenoi".

What you're saying is that you all cannot answer my arguments.
---Cluny on 1/24/11


Cluny, i think John did bust your Ortho bubble.
PS and NB they church made up of all Jews and proselytes, usd the same syagogues and temple as the unbelieving jews.

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer

They were jews and had a different belief about the messiah but like the Pharisees and Sadducees who had different beliefs but shared the same building, so now these new christian shared the same building.

ORTHO BUSTED BUBBLE


POP FFFFFFFFFFF that is the air going out the ortho bubble
---francis on 1/23/11


YOU'RE REALLY LOSING IT CLUNY!
Time to stop taking you seriously with all these convuluted arguements. Not worthy of a response from me.
TRY HARDER MY FRIEND!
---John on 1/23/11


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\\THE ORGINAL CHURCH WERE "ALL" JEWS!\\

And what kind of Jews were they, John?

Not Reform or Conservative or Reconstructionist.

So what's left? Think REAL hard.

\\No Saints then, no icons then, No Patriarch then...\\

What's your point?

May I add they also didn't have church buildings, pews, hymnals, or computers either.

A newly conceived baby doesn't have 10 fingers and 10 toes, either.

Just as a human being develops, so does the Church.
---Cluny on 1/23/11


CLUNY hate to bust your Ortho bubble but...
THE ORGINAL CHURCH WERE "ALL" JEWS!

No Saints then, no icons then, No Patriarch then...
NO ORTHO CHURCH THEN EITHER!!!!

OOOPS!!
---John on 1/23/11


Cluny: 'The Eastern Orhtodox Church IS the Original Church'

not exactly - it is PART of the original church. There were 5 sections, based in Jerusalem, Istambul, Damascus, Alexandreia and Rome, of which the Roman section became the RCC. So actually, BOTH are the original church

But all who follow Christ are part of the church, even if not the 'original' church
---Peter on 1/22/11


\\Very Good. The Eastern Orhtodox Church IS the Original Church, started by Christ and preserved by His Holy Apostles and their Successors.\\

May I point out that "Orthodox" is simply a label we wear so others can find us?

Our name to OURSELVES is Church of Christ, Church of God, and the other names given in the Bible.
---Cluny on 1/21/11


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ignatius
The One & Only God has just One Church with just One Salvation Plan Acts 2 v 38 with just One sheep fold.
The devil with roman leaders with nero & the crusades went to kill off most of The Early Church Saints Acts 2 v 38 for here 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15, so the devil can have his gods,churches beginning with the trin rcc,salvations plans
easy believeism, no works salvation & the sinners prayer etc, with folds of goats - foxes etc. Rev.17 v's 4 - 6. If it wasn't so, then the devil with the roman leaders etc would not have killed them off. God has His Church Acts 2 v 38. The devil has his churches beginning with the trin rcc.
---Lawrence on 1/21/11


"Orthodox Is Acts 2 v 38 The Early Church born on the day of Pentecost, there was No Church before." (Lawerence)

Very Good. The Eastern Orhtodox Church IS the Original Church, started by Christ and preserved by His Holy Apostles and their Successors.

"ALL others came later beginning with the trin rcc & then her trin offspring daughters churches, '"

The Oneness Pentecostal "Apostolic" Church is one of the Roman Church "offspring", except that they follow a early Roman sacrilegious heresy of Sabellius (i.e., modalism heresy)

A denial of the Holy Trinity is a sign that the spirit of the Anti-Christ is in the world.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/21/11


//ALL others came later beginning with the trin rcc & then her trin offspring daughters churches.

You really should find a better book on church history - one written by crediable church historians.

When Stephen was stoned (Acts 7:58f), the church center moved to Antioch. It was from there that they sent our missionaries to other parts of the world.(11:20f).

When the Apostles & their successors established churches in the different cities, they appointed elders to manage those churches (14:23).

Hopefully you will not be telling us your history is from Ellen White as her history is not supported even by most Adventists scholars.
---leej on 1/21/11


Once again cluny your comments don't disturb me.
Orthodox Is Acts 2 v 38 The Early Church born on the day of Pentecost, there was No Church before. ALL others came later beginning with the trin rcc & then her trin offspring daughters churches, Rev.17 v's 4 - 6. Even those that worship the gods of islam, buddha etc will fall in line also.
---Lawrence on 1/21/11


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In any case, we can agree that not all the early church was controlled or even influenced by Rome.

Lawrence - the doctrine of the trinity did not come out of Rome but from the early churches in the Eastern part of the Empire that had to face the diverse heresies - one that Jesus was not fully God in the flesh and that Jesus was a created being not equal to God the father.

Many of these same heresies plague the church even today and the means of fighting them is with the truth from Scripture.
---leej on 1/21/11


\\It's rome, & which gave birth to the trin rcc then her offspring daughters trin churches came later, which came from here 2nd.Cor. 11 v's 14 - 15.\\

Therefore, Orthodox are exempt, as we came BEFORE Rome.

Those who reject the doctrine of the Trinity, however, are part of the Beast, like you, Lawrence.
---Cluny on 1/21/11


It's rome, & which gave birth to the trin rcc then her offspring daughters trin churches came later, which came from here 2nd.Cor. 11 v's 14 - 15.
---Lawrence on 1/21/11


Nothing I said about Peter possibly going to Babylon would rule out his eventually going to Rome.
---Cluny on 1/19/11
cool
---francis on 1/20/11


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"Under the Parthian, and later, Sassanid Persians, Babylon remained a province of the Persian Empire for nine centuries, until about 650 AD. It continued to have its own culture and people, who spoke varieties of Aramaic, and who continued to refer to their homeland as Babylon. Some examples of their cultural products are often found in the Babylonian Talmud, the Mandaean religion, and the religion of the prophet Mani. Christianity came to Mesopotamia in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD, and Babylon was the seat of a Bishop of the Church of the East."-wiki
1Peter 5:13 cannot definitively or literally be taken as Rome.
---micha9344 on 1/20/11


\\1: The city of babylon was a waste land in those days.
2: How well populated is babylon today?
3: LOL do not catholic claim that Peter was the first bishop of Rome, thus making him the first Pope?\\

"Babylon" may not be the city, but the region. The principal recension of the Talmud is the BABYLONIAN Talmud. In fact, there was a Jewish saying: "To live in Babylonia is to live in Israel."

Nothing I said about Peter possibly going to Babylon would rule out his eventually going to Rome.
---Cluny on 1/19/11


Since St. Peter's principal ministry was to Jews, there was a large Jewish diaspora in Babylon, so he could have gone there, at least for a while.
---Cluny on 1/18/11

No chance.
1: The city of babylon was a waste land in those days.
2: How well populated is babylon today?
3: LOL do not catholic claim that Peter was the first bishop of Rome, thus making him the first Pope?
---francis on 1/19/11


The problem, Cluny, is that people are automatically assuming since its Rome that automatically means the Catholic church is evil.

Did you read what I said about the antichrist being given power over the saints to overcome them? Instead of us assuming the Catholic church is evil, maybe we should assume they will be executed for their faith - same as the rest of us will.

I am simply making assumptions from what I read in scripture just as everyone else here is. What "facts" do you require?
---CraigA on 1/19/11


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\\Have you ever considered that since satan likes to mock God that he will set up his kingdom in Rome?\\

Why?

And what evidence do you have that Satan will do that?
---Cluny on 1/19/11


\\Also we not that the word "church" is not in the original Greek (Barnes notes).\\

I'm not too sure what that is supposed to mean, as "church" and its Germanic cognates (such as "Kirche") have been used to render the Greek "ekklesia" into those languages for centuries.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


Rome is spiritually called Babylon. Rev.17,18+ Is.21:9+ Zech.5: Romulus and Remus built ancient Rome upon 7 hills in the 8th century B.C.: Palatino Hill, Campidoglio Hill (aka: Capitolino Hill), Quirinale Hill, Viminale Hill, Esquilino Hill, Celio Hill, Aventino Hill. Then over the centuries the empire of Rome grew beyond the limits of the 'Seven Hills' and extended out to include other hills in the vicinity. And hills on the other side of the Tiber River, such as the common Vatican Hill were counted within Rome's walls in 848 A.D. in order to protect St. Peter's Basilica and the Vatican, but the people for nostalgic reasons still retained the name of the city by its original designation: 'the City of Seven Hills'.
---Eloy on 1/18/11


Ive always believed that it IS Rome and looked towards the Catholic church as somehow betraying the faith and bowing before the antichrist when he comes.
A lot of people here probably have the same prejudices. I hope this wasnt an attempt to start a Catholic bashing blog.

Have you ever considered that since satan likes to mock God that he will set up his kingdom in Rome? The Bible does say he will be given power over the saints in the future. I believe those of us who are alive at that time will have to prove our faith in Christ by dying.
---CraigA on 1/18/11


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Every History student has been taught that Rome is the "city on 7 hills". But theories about the woman on the scarlet beast are much more varied. I have heard that she is:
Rome (and the Vatican), Jerusalem, the actual city of Babylon (55 mi south of Baghdad,) or some unseen evil metropolis on high. Also some believe the apostate Protestant church, Paganism, Russia, the United States (with the Statue of Liberty representing the Assyrian/ Babylonian goddess Ishtar). Individual American cities like Hollywood are suggested. Even Hillary Clinton has been named, and the idea.... (no church, city or nation)... That Women are Equal to Men! I kid you not.

I have no idea to whom the Rev 17 scripture refers.
---Donna66 on 1/18/11


\\'As identified by Peter, the woamn, Babylon is rome.
1 Peter 5:13'-Francis on 1/18/11\\

Some scholars have speculated that this reference to "Babylon" is really a code for "Rome".

Yet, St. Paul didn't hesitate to call the city of Rome by its real name.

Since St. Peter's principal ministry was to Jews, there was a large Jewish diaspora in Babylon, so he could have gone there, at least for a while.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


'As identified by Peter, the woamn, Babylon is rome.
1 Peter 5:13'-Francis on 1/18/11
What?!..You might want to connect the dots without any speculation for that one...
1400 miles to Rome, 500 miles to Babylon... One would think the gospel went east as well as west.
---micha9344 on 1/18/11


Some Biblical scholars believe the Babylon in 1 Peter 3:13 was the Babylon in Assyria since during those time, "there was a large metropolis of the dispersion of Jews living there." (John Gills commentary).

Unfortunately, some like the Adventists must view Babylon as being Rome since they really need that interpretation to support their own doctrine that Rome had or has to be the evil end time empire that will persecute Sabbath keepers.

Also we not that the word "church" is not in the original Greek (Barnes notes).

Adventists again fail in their interpretation of scripture.
---leej on 1/18/11


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As identified by Peter, the woamn, Babylon is rome.
1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you, and so doth Marcus my son.

Jesus was accused of blasphemy when he claimed to have the power to forgive sins, which church in Rome claims to have the power to forgive sins?

THE RCC
---Francis on 1/18/11


---joseph on 1/18/11
agreed.
Rev17:5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
"Mystery of the twisted-iniquity"
2 Thess 2:7-12(all)
And then shall that Wicked be revealed,whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:9Even him,whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

--Witnessed in all great "religions" of the world-substitute another god-made with imagination or hands,human merit etc...
---char on 1/18/11


There are several cities that are built on 7 hills, Rome for one, Seattle for another.
---leej on 1/17/11

Everyone gets hung up on the hills, when in fact the next verse states that the seven are also kings or rulers of countries/empires.

The empires are given in the time frame of the Apostle John. Five of the empires have already fallen (Egypt-Greece), one was in control (Rome), and one was yet to come (Anti-Christ) who will also be an eighth kingdom. The ten horns are also kings and kingdoms.

Mystery Babylon in some way will control all the world at the time of her destruction.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/18/11


\\But Cluny where does the Bible speak of purgatory, sacraments, special priesthood, and many other things the Orthodox church
follows?
---mima on 1/18/1\\

You err, knowing not the scriptures, the power of God, or anything about Orthodoxy.

First off, the Orthodox Church has never believed in Purgatory and has many times repudiated that doctrine.

The Bible DOES mention deacons, presbyters, and bishops being ordained.

The Sacraments are mentioned in the Bible.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


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This statement is correct.
"NOWHERE does the Bible speak of a "remnant church," as "remnant" is used only to refer to faithful Israel."
---Cluny on 1/18/11
But Cluny where does the Bible speak of purgatory, sacraments, special priesthood, and many other things the Orthodox church
follows?
---mima on 1/18/11


Cluny //The idea of a "remnant church" is one of the doctrines common to all heresies.

Adventists believe themselves to have been given a special annointing from God as expressed in the visions & teachings of Ellen White.

In believing Christ went into the heavenly sanctuary to begin judgment on Christians in 1844 - an event totally unseen puts them on the same shelf as the Jehovah's Witnesses that Christ came invisibly in 1914.

And in making the writings of Ellen White scripture,
they have done much the same thing as the Mormons have with their Book of Mormons.

While we can easily see that, Adventists are determined to follow that spirit of the woman who sits on the beast in Rev. 17.
---leej on 1/18/11


\\However, Adventists are determined to interpret the harlot as Rome as that fits neatly into their belief that that all Christian churches are corrupted and they are the only 'remnant' of the true church.
---leej on 1/17/11\\

The idea of a "remnant church" is one of the doctrines common to all heresies.

NOWHERE does the Bible speak of a "remnant church," as "remnant" is used only to refer to faithful Israel.
---Cluny on 1/18/11


The Woman is Mystery babylon,(rev.17:5) the confusion of the denominational religion system, which has caused divisions & controversy within the "Church" thru the silence imposed by their heads in order to advocate their individual doctrines & traditions. Referred to as a city (Rev.17:18) in the sense of the bustling warfare of it's inhabitants. The beast that it rides is a resurrection of that which the one world governmental system of ancient rome and it's papacy once represented. A powerful, sensually based system of things united as one under one leader who is it's author and god. One who will eventually sit in the Temple of God presenting Himself as God. (Rev. 13:2-6>17:8)
---joseph on 1/18/11


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The woman is Rome: and the beast is the leaven of the Ministers.
---Eloy on 1/18/11


\\There are several cities that are built on 7 hills, Rome for one, Seattle for another.\\

So is Mecca.

And Vatican is the eighth of the seven hills of Rome.

Pincian Hill is the ninth of the seven hills, and the Janiculum Hill is the tenth of the seven hills.
---Cluny on 1/17/11


Cluny - glad to see you have studied this subject. Yes, some would believe Jerusalem built on 7 hills has always been portrayed as a harlot.

There are several cities that are built on 7 hills, Rome for one, Seattle for another.

However, Adventists are determined to interpret the harlot as Rome as that fits neatly into their belief that that all Christian churches are corrupted and they are the only 'remnant' of the true church.
---leej on 1/17/11


The passage is in the Revelation chapter 17 and chapter 18.

I cannot agree with you Cluny. Rev 18:21 says about Mystery Babylon:

Rev 18:21 "Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer"

Jerusalem WILL be found after the judgment of the Great Harlot.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/17/11


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Cluny, It's Rome that sits on 7 hills.
Aventine hill
caelian hill
Capitoline hill
Esquiline hill
Palatine hill
Quirinal hill
Viminal hill
Where are the "catacombs"? Rome!
---1st_cliff on 1/17/11


The women is mystery Babalon, and the beast she is riding is Satan "The Beast".
---Leslie on 1/16/11


The "Jerusalem that now is" and is in bondage with her children.

Physical, political, geographical Jerusalem sits on seven hills.

Furthermore, there is only ONE nation in the Bible that is personified as a a harlot.

When Jesus said, "If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you," He didn't mean the Roman Empire, because it didn't persecute Him.
---Cluny on 1/16/11


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