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Once Saved Live Wild

Is "Once Saved Always Saved" correct? If it is, I will see those believers in Heaven. If it is wrong, they will not be there?

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 ---DavidM_Eppley on 1/19/11
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Ruben, the passage no where indicates anyone loses salvation. You would have to change it to make it mean what you say.
If those people would remain with the New Covenant and put their faith and trust in Christ, they would obtain the promise of salvation for their themselves. But they had not committed that faith to Christ. So many people are in that state. Some put their faith in their denomination. They hear the gospel preached, but their faith is in their church, not Christ. All that is useless faith.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/11

Mark,

There it is again a little word by huge "IF"...
---Ruben on 3/7/11


Pastor Herb, very good points you gave. And very sound. I believe you hit most every point.
God is perfect and everything He does is perfect. How could anyone suggest that God saved someone, to find out later He lost what He saved. God must then be an impotent god who cannot save anyone. People, and of course the enemy, are defeating His purpose day in and day out. Why would God want to save them again, if He is might lose them again. Plus, as you say, Christ only died once for all time, He is not going to die again.
---Mark_V. on 3/7/11


While one can theoretically believe "once saved, always saved", this is of little practical use. Unfortunately, as finite beings, we cannot look at someone (let alone ourselves) to know if they are saved, let alone peek at Jesus's Little White Book.

While one who is truly saved will know it, many who are NOT saved are deluded into thinking they are - so "I believe I am saved" is not a useful objective barometer of salvation.

There are many who appear saved, yet later relapse into sin - and rather than losing their salvation, it seems instead that they never had it in the first place. This is consistent with both "once saved, always saved", and "you can lose your [apparent] salvation".
---StrongAxe on 3/7/11


Pastor Herb-- Well said! Amen. The gospel of works is not GOOD news, but BAD news. It is a yoke that keeps men striving after they have been set free. It diminishes both the power of God and His love.
---Donna66 on 3/6/11


//Pastor_Herb on 3/5/11 Jesus said "It is finished". He did it all. Salvation is a free gift. All we have to do is accept it.//
Amen, absolutely correct
---michael_e on 3/6/11




Denominational prejudice has no place in the body of Christ.

Can we please stop categorizing ALL people into one set of beliefs simply because they go to the same church? Its a childish thing to do.
---Jasheradan on 3/5/11


Jesus said "It is finished". He did it all. Salvation is a free gift. All we have to do is accept it. There is nothing else to do, it is finished. We don't loose it, we don't work for it or work to keep it. If Jesus has the power to save, He has the power to keep those He has saved. If we have the power to take ourselves out of God's hand and loose our salvation, then we have the power to save ourselves and we didn't need Jesus. Why did Jesus save you in the first place if he knew you were going to loose you salvation? If you could loose your salvation, then you can never get saved again. Jusus would have to die on the cross again to save you again.
---Pastor_Herb on 3/5/11


Ruben, the passage no where indicates anyone loses salvation. You would have to change it to make it mean what you say.
If those people would remain with the New Covenant and put their faith and trust in Christ, they would obtain the promise of salvation for their themselves. But they had not committed that faith to Christ. So many people are in that state. Some put their faith in their denomination. They hear the gospel preached, but their faith is in their church, not Christ. All that is useless faith.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/11


Ruben, yes, Anyone who has heard the gospel and follows for a time, and falls away, don't do the will of God. That is why they are not saved and don't receive the promise of salvation. Those that do the will of God are the Just because they live by faith. Those who draw back to perdition God finds no pleasure with them. That is why the writer said, "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul"
---Mark_V. on 3/3/11

Mark,

That's why the writer said Don't lose your confidence and that you need patience in order to "receive the promise" Being saved is not a one-time free ticket to heaven, you can fall away from the truth!
---Ruben on 3/4/11


francis:

There is no need for additional verses. The answer is right in the one you quoted:
Romans 1:8, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

If someone accepts Christ, but afterwards lives a wild and sinful life, it's clear that he is NOT walking in the Spirit, which means he is not really in Christ in the first place - so the above exclusion of condemnation does not apply to him.
---StrongAxe on 3/4/11




---Anyone who has heard the gospel and follows for a time, and falls away, don't do the will of God. That is why they are not saved and don't receive the promise of salvation. --- Mark_V

That doesnt sound at all like predestination to salvation....

Are you Armenian again?
---CraigA on 3/4/11


Ruben, yes, only those that do the will of God receive the promise. Anyone who has heard the gospel and follows for a time, and falls away, don't do the will of God. That is why they are not saved and don't receive the promise of salvation. Those that do the will of God are the Just because they live by faith. Those who draw back to perdition God finds no pleasure with them. That is why the writer said, "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul"
---Mark_V. on 3/3/11


""But we (believers) are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul"
because believers are the Just and they live by faith. All others who draw back are not genuine believers.
---Mark_V. on 3/3/11

The Authors of Hebrews tell us why the just live by faith:

"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise "( Heb 10:35-39)
---Ruben on 3/3/11


Ruben, You said,
"Mark what does "if" mean in this scripture verse?" Lets begin,
"The just shall live by faith" Here we know that the just live by faith. Not maybe, or sometimes, but that they live by faith. Second,
"but "If" anyone draws back" here we see the word "anyone" it cannot be the just because he just finished saying they live by faith. To make sure we understood him correctly, he says,
""But we (believers) are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul"
because believers are the Just and they live by faith. All others who draw back are not genuine believers.
---Mark_V. on 3/3/11


Well Ignatius here we agree.

Paul in his letters spoke of some who had once been members now no longer.

Also most people forget the eternal security of the believer is part of Calvin's TULIP. They try to accept one part and not all of it.
---Samuel on 3/3/11


\\Our GOAL should not be to simply RECEIVE SALVATION (shocker huh?), but to receive an "inheritance" (which we do not yet possess).\\
---more_excellent_way on 3/1/11

I couldn't agree more. Suffering brings an enlarged inheritance. Beatitudes are full of assurance of that.
---James_L on 3/2/11


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Here is a verse that speaks of eternal security.

Romans 1:8, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." This verse states that if you are in Christ you can not come under any condemnation.
---mima on 3/2/11

Yes but what you did not post are verses which say that you can walk away from christ. then what?

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
---francis on 3/2/11


That pretty much clears the air, that believers are not of those who draw back to perdition.

"For the just shall live by faith but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him"
---Mark_V. on 3/2/11

Mark what does "if" mean in this scripture verse?
---Ruben on 3/2/11


"Here is a verse that speaks of eternal security.

Romans 1:8, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." This verse states that if you are in Christ you can not come under any condemnation." (Mima)

Did you notice the last part of the verse, Mima? In other words, those who continue to believe and obey the Gospel are under no condemnation. Salvation is not based upon a past moment of confession, rather, it is journey. It is a past event (Ephesians 2:8), an event currently active (Philippians 2:12), and a future event (1 Peter 1:5).

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/2/11


Here is a verse that speaks of eternal security.

Romans 1:8, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." This verse states that if you are in Christ you can not come under any condemnation.
---mima on 3/2/11

Mima, as you should know, reading all of the bible is what needed not just a verse that seems to agree with your doctrine. In the say book of Romans infact the very next chapter it reads "God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:6-8)
---Ruben on 3/2/11


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Here is a verse that speaks of eternal security.

Romans 1:8, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." This verse states that if you are in Christ you can not come under any condemnation.
---mima on 3/2/11


Donna66, your explanations were great even the one concerning who is sanctified which is Christ. I believe after the writer said so many things in the end of the chapter he makes clear about believers in v. 39,

"But we (believers) are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul"

That pretty much clears the air, that believers are not of those who draw back to perdition.

"For the just shall live by faith but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him"
---Mark_V. on 3/2/11


Hebrews 9:9
Ephesians 1:14
"which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it".
---more_excellent_way on 3/1/11

Hebrews 9:15 for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of transgressions THAT WERE UNDER THE FIRST testament, THEY WHICH ARE called MIGHT receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of MANY, and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
hEB 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
---Trav on 3/1/11


In O.T. worship, the Israelites/Jews had to offer sacrifices repeatedly/often in order to MAINTAIN spiritual cleanliness/purity (because they were not cleansed ONCE and for all)....but now we have Jesus as the FINAL cleansing and sacrifice....

"...If the worshipers had once been cleansed..." (Hebrews 10:2).

Even so, Jesus purified the FLESH ONLY....

Hebrews 9:9
"sacrifices are offered which cannot perfect the CONSCIENCE of the worshipper".

Our GOAL should not be to simply RECEIVE SALVATION (shocker huh?), but to receive an "inheritance" (which we do not yet possess).

Ephesians 1:14
"which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it".
---more_excellent_way on 3/1/11


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For those who do not believe that once saved always saved is true consider this post. by Pastor Herb.

"If we could loose our salvation, then the bible is wrong when God says: depart from me, I NEVER knew you. How can we be saved and God knows us but loose our salvation and God say he never knew us?
---Pastor_Herb on 2/21/11
---mima on 3/1/11

In the same scripture verse he left out this " Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles" MT 7:25

They sound like those who believe in OSAS!
---Ruben on 3/1/11


mima...i totally agree.
2Tim.2:19 says: The Lord knows who are His. So how could He say depart from Me for I never knew you.
---JIM on 3/1/11


OUR SPIRIT must be compatible with GOD'S SPIRIT (soldiers have a fighting spirit, sports players have a team spirit). God's spirit can only witness to a person's spirit that is willing to RECEIVE HIS.

2 Timothy 2:21 "If any one purifies himself from what is ignoble, then he will be a vessel for noble use".

Romans 8:16
"it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD".

If we want to receive an inheritance, we must learn to live a peaceful and just (holy) lifestyle (we do not have license to live "wild"). When we learn to live rightly, our CONSCIENCE will always be clear.

Hebrews 9:14
"through the eternal Spirit...purify your conscience".
---more_excellent_way on 3/1/11


For those who do not believe that once saved always saved is true consider this post. by Pastor Herb.

"If we could loose our salvation, then the bible is wrong when God says: depart from me, I NEVER knew you. How can we be saved and God knows us but loose our salvation and God say he never knew us?
---Pastor_Herb on 2/21/11
---mima on 3/1/11


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I have a son, he was born into my family. My relationship lasts forever, but if we don't see eye to eye, then our fellowship can be broken. No mater what he does he is still my son. The same is true with our relationship with God.
---Pastor_Herb on 1/30/11

Sounds like Israel's story.

32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again, and was lost, and is found.
Matthew 15:24 (King James Version)

24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(Somebodys got to look for em, preachers aren't)
---Trav on 3/1/11


Rightly Saved Always Saved. We can loose our fellowship but not our relationship. 1 John 1:9 says: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is how we restore our fellowship. Show me a Christian who says he has no sin and I will show you someone calling God a liar.

If we could loose our salvation, then the bible is wrong when God says: depart from me, I NEVER knew you. How can we be saved and God knows us but loose our salvation and God say he never knew us?
---Pastor_Herb on 2/21/11


ruben--//But our fellowship has to be mended//.

I've never disagreed with this. "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God..."
---Donna66 on 2/2/11


Ruben -- Yes, But a father doesn't love his children because they are perfect. He loves them because they are his children. And because he loves them, He disciplines them if they disobey.

Hbr 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? The prodigal son knew who his father was.. and to his father he returned. David, after he sinned, returned to the Father. Peter, when he sinned returned to the Savior. They knew where they belonged.
---Donna_Smith on 1/31/11

All repented and thus mended the fellowship. If they did not return(Repented) then the fellowship is not there.
---Ruben on 2/2/11


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Donna66, that was so very well done, what you did with that passage. Opening it up so that it could be understood. The epistle was for a community of Hebrews who were primarily converts to Christ, but there were a number of unbelievers among them, who were attracted by the message of salvation, but who had not yet made a full commitment of faith in Christ. One thing was clear from the contents, the community was facing the possibility of intensified persecution ( 10:32-39, 12:4).
---Mark_V. on 2/2/11


Ruben -- Yes, But a father doesn't love his children because they are perfect. He loves them because they are his children. And because he loves them, He disciplines them if they disobey.

Hbr 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? Hbr. 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. The prodigal son knew who his father was.. and to his father he returned. David, after he sinned, returned to the Father. Peter, when he sinned returned to the Savior. They knew where they belonged.
---Donna_Smith on 1/31/11


I have a son, he was born into my family. My relationship lasts forever, but if we don't see eye to eye, then our fellowship can be broken. No mater what he does he is still my son. The same is true with our relationship with God.
---Pastor_Herb on 1/30/11

But our fellowship has to be mended, "If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."(1 Jhn 1:7-9)
---Ruben on 1/31/11


Pastor Herb-- Exactly.
Fatherhood should be easy for most people to understand. It's a permanent relationship.
And God loves us as a father loves His children.

1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
---Donna66 on 1/31/11


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I have a son, he was born into my family. My relationship lasts forever, but if we don't see eye to eye, then our fellowship can be broken. No mater what he does he is still my son. The same is true with our relationship with God.
---Pastor_Herb on 1/30/11


Donna ... You are surely right.

It would seem to follow that those who proclaim that they are now without sin and don't need to repent, are in fact not saved
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/27/11


Darlene-1..// just because they have been forgiven once doesn't mean they don't have to ask forgiveness for the sins and mistakes they make growing up in Christ.,.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, as Christians mature they may see more sins in their lives, because they have a better understanding of what God really wants of them! But I see this repentance more as a necessity to Christian growth, a move toward closer relationship with the Lord...than something required to preserve one's salvation.

It is the Holy Spirit Who convicts of sin. If the recognition of sin no longer occurs, or it produces no repentance, I'd wonder about a person's initial salvation.
---Donna66 on 1/26/11


When we repent,are water baptized,and risen a new creature,we are born again. Just as any new born babe we are babes in Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:1,2 And I brothers could not speak unto you as spiritual,but as to carnal,even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk and not with meat,for hitherto you were not able to bear it,neither yet now are you able. 1Peter 2:2 As new born babes desire the sincere milk of the Word,that you may grow thereby. Baby Christians have to grow and just because they have been forgiven once doesn't mean they don't have to ask forgiveness for the sins and mistakes they make growing up in Christ. God holds us accountable for all we do,obedience isn't work it is our Covenant duty.
---Darlene_1 on 1/26/11


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CraigA --- You were quoting all the "you's" (2nd person) as evidence that Paul was speaking to believers. I agree they were believers, but when he switches to "he" (third person), it means someone else... Read it anyway you want. What you give is your interpretation..which is not what I see when I read it. But I'll agree to disagree.
---Donna66 on 1/25/11


\\(Where is the YOU in this passage/)
It's written...about someone not included among the listeners.\\
---Donna66 on 1/25/11

You are correct that this verse has in mind someone other than his audience. In the entire passage, he is encouraging those believers to keep the faith.

It would be stupid to warn someone against doing something that's not possible.

He was telling them not to reject their faith because it IS possible.

Some of those believers (them, he, they) had already gone back, but the writer was telling the others (you, we, us) to press on in faith.

Heb 5:12-6:12 shows that genuine believers can be immature, and "fall away" back into the Law and lose their INHERITANCE
---James_L on 1/25/11


Leave the judging to God.You are not qualified to do so. Concentrate on doing the will of God in your life. That is a full time job, in itself. Show love to others and put Christ first in all that you do and you will fair ok.
---Robyn on 1/25/11


And second, if as God promised,(Heb 10:16) He put his laws into their hearts, and wrote them in their minds, they would never have insisted on returning to the temple to make animal sacrifices nullifying Christs redemption.
---Donna66 on 1/24/11

It is interesting that you posted this observation Donna. If you will note that it says the "House of Israel" only...Judah is not mentioned separately here like it is above in Heb 8:8.

This House could be just the Northern house...divorced that recieves these laws in heart and mind. Which is more evident...than anyone calling themselves judah/jews from or since that time. A mark/sign.
---Trav on 1/25/11


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Im afraid I dont follow you, Donna. The subject of the verses never changed.

HE (man under the law) that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

(((The subject changes here because the writer is comparing 2 men of a different time and covenant.)))

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall HE (man under grace) be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith HE (man under grace) was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
---CraigA on 1/25/11


James L-- The book is written for Hebrew believers but it is not all written in the second person.(grammer can be important)

(Where is the YOU in this passage/)
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, ...

It's written in the third person, that is, about someone not included among the listeners.
---Donna66 on 1/25/11


---Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he (i.e. Christ) was sanctified---DOnna66

Maybe Im taking this the wrong way, but it seems you just said Christ was sanctified by His own blood....

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he (the sinful man) be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he (the sinful man) was sanctified

That how I see it reads
---CraigA on 1/25/11


CraigA Part 1,
You are correct that Hebrews 10 is speaking of genuine believers, as can be demonstrated from the following:
v 22 Let US draw near...
v 23 Let US hold fast...
v 24 Let US consider...
v 25 not forsaking OUR own assembling
v 26 For if WE go on sinning...
v 30 For WE know Him who said
v 30 The Lord will judge HIS PEOPLE.

The problem you're going to run into is sufficiently demonstrating any mention of someone going to hell.

Keep reading:
"Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great REWARD. (v 35)

"For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised." (v 36)
---James_L on 1/24/11


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CraigA Part 2,
Hebrews was written as an encouragement to endure suffering with Christ

Heb 2:9-10
Jesus, because of the suffering of death CROWNED with GLORY and honor

to perfect (or make perfect) the Author of the SALVATION through suffering

Heb 12:2
Jesus...who FOR THE JOY SET BEFORE HIM endured the cross

Heb 1:3
He sat down a the right hand of the Majesty on high

Heb 1:4
He has INHERITED a more excellent name

Heb 2:8
But now we do not yet see all things subjected to Him

Heb 2:10-11
in bringing many sons to GLORY...he is not ashamed to call them brethren

Rom 8:17
fellow heirs with Christ IF indeed WE SUFFER with Him so that we may be GLORIFIED WITH HIM
---James_L on 1/24/11


I am afraid that some of you do not know what salvation and new birth are. The new birth takes place at the instance of salvation. We are made spiritually new, as babies in Christ. This new birth gives a new will, though we still sin it is not the desire of true believer to do so. Those who would live "Wild" after salvation are most likely not saved to begin with. The Bible says "They went out from us because they were not of us."
---Harold on 1/24/11


Donna66 thanks I understand what you are saying,and yes those were Christians who had been Jews but what is being said doesn't have only one way to apply it. Common ssnse and what I have learned of God's ways from the Bible tells me God will hold any person who turns back or lingers in their old practices to the same standard he holds those Jews. It doesn't matter Jew,Pagan,all Gentiles will be judged equally by the same standard God showed for any one who accepts Christ and doesn't obey God's Word,way,and will. Their end is death,they will die in their sins when they trod under foot the Blood Covenant they had entered into with God through the blood of Jesus.
---Darlene_1 on 1/24/11


CraigA--here's how I read that verse and why.

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he (i.e. Christ) was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?,

The Jews in question could not have been sanctified because...First, (Hbr 10:14) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

. And second, if as God promised,(Heb 10:16) He put his laws into their hearts, and wrote them in their minds, they would never have insisted on returning to the temple to make animal sacrifices nullifying Christs redemption.
---Donna66 on 1/24/11


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Donna66, that brings up another very interesting possibility.

Either this verse is NOT for Christians or nonbelievers are sanctified by the blood of Christ without their knowledge...

and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing
---CraigA on 1/23/11


Darlene_1-- Hebrews was written for...Hebrews. There were those who had knowledge of Jesus (their Messiah), but continued their old covenant sacrifices and rituals. Thus the sacrifice of Jesus was ineffective for their sins and they had only fiery judgment ahead of them. (compare with other passages in Hebrews).

No genuine Christian hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace (Heb 10:29)
These are the acts of an unbeliever, who will reap the rewards of the sinner.
God will judge all men.
---Donna66 on 1/22/11


//All you need to do is die, and what's left is totally without sin.//

and in this 'life', as you die to Jesus Christ, guess what happens?
---aka on 1/22/11


John 15
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

...

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the FIRE, and they are burned.
---CraigA on 1/19/11


Be not deceived.
---CraigA on 1/22/11


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---James_L on 1/21/11

super post
---michael_e on 1/22/11


It is not that we have to do good to be saved, it is more like we have been save so we want to do good because God has become a Father to us and if a true believer steps off the path the Father disciplines you and puts you back on the path. If a person claims to be born again and lives a style of life that is habitual sin and there is no fear of the Lord in their life they are lost and were never found in the first place. Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith the test is found in 1john read it and compare yourself to it to see if you pass. if you fail repent and believe forget that silly prayer at the end of your roman road it will not save you.
---Look2TheSky on 1/21/11


The problem most people run into is not understanding what happens to us at conversion.

At conversion, we are:
redeemed - our sin has been paid for

justified - with our sin paid for, we are just in God's eyes

regenerated - being just, God remakes our spirit totally sinless

indwelt - being sinless in our Holy of Holies, we become the habitation of the Holy Spirit

sealed - Being the temple of the Holy Spirit, He seals us unto the day of redemption of our bodies

With our spirit already sinless (that's what it means to be a new creation), it is totally fitted for heaven. That's why to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. All you need to do is die, and what's left is totally without sin.
---James_L on 1/21/11


Donna66 We enter a Covenant,with God through Christ's Blood,Hebrews 10:26-30 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,there remains no more sacrifice for sins. But a certain fearful looking for of judgement and firey indignation,which will devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' Law died without mercy under two or three witnesses. Of how much sorer punishment suspose you,shall he be thought worthy,who has trodden under foot the Son of God,and has counted the blood of the Covenant,wherewith he was sanctified,an unholy thing,and has done despite to the spirit of grace. For we know him that has said,Vengence belongs to me,I will recompence,says the Lord again and again. The Lord shall judge his people.
---Darlene_1 on 1/22/11


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A "born again" person is a new creation. He will not sin just because he feels he can "get away with it". In his new life, He wants to please the Savior whose blood bought his salvation. (otherwise,don't assume he's a Christian)

But it makes no sense to me, that, after we are redeemed, we must earn what has already been given as a free gift. Salvation represents an inner change. To me "working it out" means bringing that change of heart into our outer life where others can benefit. If keeping our salvation depends on our righteous deeds as Christians, we have not been set free, but are burdened more than ever! Can we ever know for sure that we have confessed every sin before we die?
---Donna66 on 1/21/11


Wow DavidM, thats a tough one..one that I have been on both sides of the fence, because the arguements in scripture are challenging..but ultimately what does the answer produce..if it is that you can lose your salvation, then work it out with fear and trembling as the Bible says! If you are always saved, what are you going to do...live life like a heathen? Likely not! The regerated will never make that choice (Jhn 15). If you would chose to live like a heathen then you prove you were never His. Thats my really basic answer to this big question.
---Remi on 1/21/11


Mima here's the complete thought,John 10:27,28 My sheep hear my voice and I know them,"they follow me",and I give unto them eternal life,and they shall never perish,neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Christ made it clear he was speaking of those who follow him. Following Christ includes dying to self and obeying Christs teaching and life example. Satan tried to tempt Christ but Christ didn't give in,that is how every Christian is suspose to be about sin. 1 Peter 1:15,16 But he which has called you is holy,so be you holy in all manner of conversation. Because it is written,be you holy,for I am holy. 2 Peter 2:20 Paraphrased,after knowing Christ getting entangled and overcome back into sin brings a worse end than before.
---Darlene_1 on 1/21/11


"Nothing can take us from God's hand and eternal life but ourselves."
---Darlene_1 on 1/20/11

If the above statement is true then "ourselves" is stronger than Almighty God. For he is the one who has said no man can snatch you out of my hand!!!!!!! think about it.
---mima on 1/21/11


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Matthew 10:22 And you shall be hated of all men for my names sake,but he that endures to the end shall be saved. James 1:12,13 Blessed is the man who endures temptation:for when he is tried,he shall receive the crown of life,which the Lord has promised to them that love him. James 1:14 But every man is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lust and enticed. Then when lust has conceived it brings forth sin,and sin,when it is finished,brings forth death. 2 Peter 2:20 For after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,they are again entangled therein,and overcome the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. Nothing can take us from God's hand and eternal life but ourselves.
---Darlene_1 on 1/20/11


John 15
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
---CraigA on 1/19/11


Lawrence--- What makes you think that those who believe in eternal security (OSAS, to you) have no works and came to Christ by just saying a "sinners prayer"?
This is a convenient stereotype to apply to those Christians with whom you have doctrinal differences.

How many people do you know who believe in eternal security and how well do you know them? Obviously not many and not well.
---Donna66 on 1/20/11


Man needs to be saved from God's coming wrath.
God tells us what we must do to escape that wrath.
Our faith in what God says causes us to believe the gospel of grace.
"Is once saved always saved" true?

The reason this question is asked is failure to understand the cross work of Christ.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation
---michael_e on 1/20/11


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Lawrence //For the once saved always saved Is a False conception ...

If you believe you can be your own savior, it is apparently you really do not understand the Scripture.

Read if you can -

Eph. 2:8-10 For by GRACE are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of GOD:
NOT of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The Holy Spirit indwells one at regeneration, creating in one a new creation 2 Cor. 5:17. which creates in the believer a conflict with sin in his life. Read Romans 7.
---leej on 1/20/11


For the once saved always saved Is a False conception that came from 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15, just the others, easy believism,
no works salvation & the sinners prayer etc.
---Lawrence on 1/19/11


If salvation is wholly of God's grace granted as a gift to those who have faith in Christ, then once you are saved, you are saved unto eternity. Eph. 2:8

Howbeit, we would expect those of faith to start exhibiting behavior that characterizes the Christian, works being a product of ones faith (Eph.2:10)

We should understand that sanctification is the work of the Spirit in ones life, not something accomplished immediately.

God chastens every son or daughter He receives Hebrews 12:6-7 as a father would any child.

Granted there are those in the church who may never became genuiune Christians but are truly good ethical people but we can expect to see those who are saved in the life to come despite poor performance.
---leej on 1/19/11


Wrong DavidM, people who make foolish statements as you have made likely did not make God's selection list prior to the creation process, so you may not even make it to heaven to find out.
---Blogger9211 on 1/19/11


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David your question identifies them as believers.

And in order to answer this question let me reference this scripture 1st Peter 2:,16 "As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God."

If I tell you not to shut the door, I have just implied that you can shut the door.

So can you be saved and live like hell? You can but you will lose all of your rewards for living that way. But you will not lose your salvation!!! Scripture says His ways are not our ways. Still most people cannot see this.

"
---mima on 1/19/11


There's a difference between being saved and a conversion experience, but too many people confuse the two.

When you're in Heaven--yes, you're saved.
---Cluny on 1/19/11


What a question! Do you think the original Christians would have asked it? Well, maybe. Did Paul tell us, Let sin abound so that grace might abound all the more? :-)
---John.usa on 1/19/11


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