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Anybody Here Sinless

Many claim they are without sin, by posting this passages, John 8:34-37. Are they sinless?

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 ---Mark_V. on 1/22/11
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"That we might receive the promise of the Spirit THROUGH FAITH."

In the second verse of this same chapter the Apostle Paul inquires, "Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of FAITH?"

The FRUIT of the Spirit IS...vs the works of the Flesh. Those who are Christ's have CRUCIFIED the Flesh. No one in the OT was CRUCIFIED with Christ and a NEW CREATURE In Christ.


John 7:38-39 Christ says, "He that BELIEVETH ON ME, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that BELIEVE ON HIM should receive."
---kathr4453 on 2/1/11


Now wait a minute MarkV.
You have said that a person can't believe unless God gives them the Holy Spirit first.
You have and Kathr is just pointing that out.
No where in the Bible does it say you get the Holy Spirit before you believe. It is always after you believe that you recieve the Holy Spirit. That is what the Bible says clearly.
The Father must draw you to Christ but you do not get the Holy Spirit until you believe it is the Father drawing you and believe Christ is his son that came to save you.

So, which is it MarkV,
Do you get the Holy Spirit before you believe or after you believe?

Hopefully you will answer the question instead of bashing me like you do others on here.
---ginger on 2/1/11


Sorry markv, but Abel was never promised any land nor was Enoch...

But, yes Israel did enter the Promise land. Joshua took them in...HELLO!!
---kathr4453 on 2/1/11


Kathr, everyday you undermine Scripture just to argue. The promise talked about in Hebrews was the promise land. Neither Abraham, Isaac, nor Jacob were able to settle permanently in or posses the land God promised to them (v.10). Abraham first went there in faith, and they all lived there in faith, believing in a promise possession that would not be fulfilled for many generations beyond their lifetimes (Gen. 12:7). Abraham's ultimate and permanent Promised Land was heaven which, through faith, he knew he would ultimately inherit. This city is mentioned again in (v, 16,12:22, 13:14).
Gal. 3:14 is talking about the promise of the Spirit.
The blessing of Abraham was faith in God's promise of salvation.
---Mark_V. on 2/1/11


MarkV: John 8 is about who commits sin being a servant of sin. We all WERE servants of sin, the question is that God (Jesus) bought us out

Never sinned: certainly not

Will not be held guilty of sin: by God's grace

Not sure exactly how you meant the question

But I would be cautious of someone stating that 'I am without sin'

Also, John 8 is not the ONLY passage dealing with sin by beleivers: there is also 'If your brother sins against you' which I took to mean a fellow Christian

So we must take all this in context, not just take one sentence and expand it
---Peter on 2/1/11




John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


MarkV, have YOU received THIS HOLY Spirit since you believed?
---kathr4453 on 2/1/11


MarkV, Hebrews 11 state all those in the OT who had faith all died WITHOUT RECEIVING THE PROMISE. The PROMISE was the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit.Galatians also confirm this truth...that the PROMISE of the Spirit wound come to the GENTILES. Christ had to die and rise again frist for that to happen.

Hebrews 11:39
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:



Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


You see the SPIRIT is what WE RECEIVE through faith. WE DO NOT receive FAITH through the Spirit!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/11


cluny is...lol.
---Donna5535 on 1/31/11


Kathr, you purposely try to say things I never said. If you just understood the Truth of the Gospel you would not say what you say,
"
Markv says the spirit came before faith...scripture states the OPPOSITE!!"

You give no Scripture proof on what you say. It is the Spirit who brings life to those who are dead.
Faith and repentance is granted by God the Holy Spirit when a person is born of the Spirit, brought to life. The Spirit is always here, since the Spirit is God. When Jesus said, "I will send the Spirit' He meant to indwell believers permanently and seals them. A person cannot believe and come to Christ without faith and repentance. In your case you came to Christ without either one.
---Mark_V. on 1/30/11


Yes Peter, the way markv writes many things is ODD indeed.

Paul asked.."Have ye received the Holy Spirit since you believed"?

No, we have not even heard of the Holy Spirit....

OR

Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Markv says the spirit came before faith...scripture states the OPPOSITE!!

THAT is what I object to!

Cornelius received the Holy Spirit AFTER he believed.

One is capable of having faith without first being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/11




2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This is what MarkV DENIES, yet he calls himself THE ELECT.

He had to BEG for mercy after he was saved...which is WORKS. The TRUE Elect RECEIVE ABUNDANT MERCY!!
---kathr4453 on 1/30/11


CraigA: I took MarkV's comment to mean that the Spirit never CAME to earth, because it was always here

BUT that could be awkward....

I always take it, without being sure, that Jesus comment about (incorrect words, I know, forgive me) 'if I do not leave, the Spirit will not come' to mean 'come and live in you, the apostles'

I took it that like God, the Holy Spirit is on earth, and has been (as God, in all His Three Persons, is omnipresent)

But I understand that the way MarkV wrote is sounded a bit 'odd'
---Peter on 1/29/11


MarkV: don't be so harsh on Kathr - the question of that matter (did God plan for us to be saved - I think so - or sis we decide - I think not) is so old that we should not get into heavy arguments about it
---Peter on 1/29/11


Kathr, you blaspheme the Lord Jesus Christ, denying the Spirit brings life, calling what Jesus Christ said a lie,
"What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? "it is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing" John 6:62,63.
You claim He lied because you say,
"The RISEN CHRIST was not in the OT."
Again you claim Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior is not eternal. Proclaiming like the Jehovah Witnesses that He is a created angel.
Jesus says,
"Before Abraham came to be, I Am" John 8:58. Those wanted to stone Him, you too want to stone Him. That's why you talk a lot and never give Scripture or can disproof the Scripture we give you.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/11


---But instead you thank yourself for a great job you've done. How lucky He was for you choosing Him.---Mark_V


LUCKY? Now let's look at LUCK. Is there a difference between LUCK and faith? You bet.

Now Calvinists believe themselves to be LUCKY..in other words, they won the lottery of salvation purely by CHANCE. We know God is not a respecter of persons. We know ALL have sinned, yet these LUCKY chosen ones cannot tell you HOW, or on what premise THEIR lucky number came about.

Talk about TWISTING!
---kathr4453 on 1/28/11


I'm not sinless. Forgive me Lord for my wrongs.
---Sissy8493 on 1/27/11


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---First of all the Holy Spirit never came to earth, the Holy Spirit is God, He is also Omnipresent, everywhere---Mark_V



Sometimes I just think you like to argue

Go read John 16.
---CraigA on 1/27/11


Just as there are things that babes in Christ believe they cannot eat, there are certainly things that babes in Christ do not understand. I honestly dont mean this in a condescending way.

Before I cause anyone to stumble Im ending my part in this conversation.

Ive never wanted any Calvinist to doubt their salvation or their security in Christ, only to stop preaching the lie that Jesus Christ didnt die for all men and that God doesnt want all men to be saved.
---CraigA on 1/27/11


MarkV ... Such anger!

I did not suggest you and Christan (not his/her correct name, not Christian)were the same person nor that he'she was your wife.

And you say : "Yes you have, when you suggest that man with his free will has the right to choose his own destiny without God having anything to say about it"

As ever, false witness.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/27/11


You know everyone, here is what we need to understand. Yes, God is not answerable to anyone, and according to the Calvinists can do what He wants, when He wants where He wants any time He wants.

BUT, if this is what it's all about, WHY then do we place our faith in HIS PROMISES? Can God change His mind on any promise?

God's Sovereignty means that God has sworn by no other but Himself, God who cannot lIE will never change His promises based on His whims.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/11


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It's foolishness and hypocrisy how some continue to proclaim that God is sovereign and yet man has been given "free-will" by Him (which in the first place can never be found in the Scripture). Obviously, they do not understand what is sovereign and free-will. God declares that only He is sovereign and the only one who has the free-will:

"But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased." Psalm 115:3

"The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." Proverbs 21:1

Where's the man precious "free-will" you cling on to? Where?
---christan on 1/27/11


---But instead you thank yourself for a great job you've done. How lucky He was for you choosing Him.---Mark_V

What a presumptous asinine statement to make. Is this how Calvinist teachers poison people against free-will?

Are you simply angry because I showed scripture for free-will?

What exactly is it that makes you angry at the thought of God leaving repentance up to the sinner? We all have the WILL to repent. What we lack is the POWER.

That power comes from Jesus Christ. That is why we put our faith in Him. CHristianity 101
---CraigA on 1/27/11


Leej (and MarkV and Christan)

Leej says: "If you truly believe that God is soverign, then what prevents you from believing that He had ever right ... "

I can see where you guys are getting your ideas from, when you talk about God having rights, supposedly because he is Sovereign

Rights are granted by someone to someone.

God has no rights (unless you say He grants them to Himself) ... because He is not answerable to anyone, not even to Himself and certainly not to you.

But you seek to grant Him limited rights, in that you do not allow Him to grant freewill.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/27/11


Craig, Here is what I mean you do not know the nature, character and attributes of God. You said,
"Have any Calvinists ever considered that before the Holy Spirit came into the world men were "elected" for service on an individual basis before the time of Christ then when Jesus ascended and sent the Spirit (Acts 2:17)"
First of all the Holy Spirit never came to earth, the Holy Spirit is God, He is also Omnipresent, everywhere. He is not confined to space. It was His ministry that change. To bring life to those who are spiritually dead in trespasses and sin, indwell believers, to bring them to all truth by testifying of Jesus and His gospel, empowering the believers to witness for Christ, and to seal them.
---Mark_V. on 1/27/11


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"I never thought Id live to see the day that a Christian accuses God of evil just to be secure in their own salvation." CraigA

Who's accusing God of evil? Clear and concise declaration made by God Almighty Himself, "I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7. Are you telling readers that there's an interpretation needed to this very verse in the Scripture?

If evil really existed outside of God's creation, the Christian will really be in big trouble. And that's because he has to contend with two Almighty powers fighting with one another for supremacy. What foolishness!
---christan on 1/26/11


Duanne:
You might be right that many have forgotten what was done on the cross.

I liked the 1Pet4:1,2 kathr directed us to. Another scripture telling how we have "ceased from sin".
---Haz27 on 1/26/11


Craig, you accuse me, as most of you do. Now you say,
"Mark, are you now going to lie and say you have never accused Christians here of not knowing the God of scripture while debating with them over predestination?"
You should have said that instead of saying "conform to my beliefs" because you speak lies.
I did say you do not know the God of Scripture. Because your answers are not Scriptural. No knowledge of God's nature, character or attributes. If you knew Him, you would not speak against His Sovereign right to save whom He wills. If you knew Him you would bend your knees and thank Him for saving you. But instead you thank yourself for a great job you've done. How lucky He was for you choosing Him.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/11


I never thought Id live to see the day that a Christian accuses God of evil just to be secure in their own salvation.

God does allow suffering. Any Christian can tell you that suffering typically brings people CLOSER to God.

If He doesnt allow us to be sick, how can He show us his healing? If He didnt allow evil, we wouldnt be as thankful when we receive good.

So He allowed us to fall into sin because He already had a plan to restore us in Jesus Christ.
---CraigA on 1/26/11


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God created satan for a Holy purpose, that the Scripture may be fulfilled as written "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4 and "I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

It was satan who tormented Job but was commanded by God not to take his life (Job 2:6). But did Job give mention to satan for his trials and tribulations. No, for he rebuked his wife, "But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips." Job 2:10
---christan on 1/26/11


/Does it matter if a person is Catholic, Baptist, SDA, Mormon if its an election according to NOTHING we've done?

It has been my experience that some have come to faith because of some dramatic experience they may have had and that despite what they denominational affiliation may have been. However, as one matures in the faith, they may be led to other affiliations.
---leej on 1/25/11


Mark, I gave scripture and you ignored it for some unknown reason. If you ever say I dont supply scripture in the future you are simply lying. Also, why is it that only the scripture Calvinists give is "proof"? Are you so closed-minded and hard-hearted?

Psalm 78...
IF it was Gods "plan" that Israel rebel against Him then they did not "LIMIT" God! Everything went according to Gods plan. This is common sense!

I gotta know.. why dont Calvinists talk much about satan after the garden of Eden? I dont hear anything about satan but it seems we hear a lot about how God wants men to perish.

Maybe Im nuts, but isnt satan our enemy and God our savior?
---CraigA on 1/25/11


"Mark, what exactly IS your reasoning for spending night after night here pushing your beliefs so vehemently?

Actually, Mark, that was me that suggested it. You guys mispell the same words and have the same condescending tone in your blogs which led me to believe that you were Christan." CraigA


"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye, and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
---christan on 1/25/11


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Mark, are you now going to lie and say you have never accused Christians here of not knowing the God of scripture while debating with them over predestination?

Brother, I hope that isnt the case. I would lose all respect for you if you did such a thing.
---CraigA on 1/25/11


kathr:
Have you explained to us your understanding of 1Pet4?

1Pet4:1,2 Just as Christ suffered for us in the flesh (the cross), arm yourselves with the same mind (our old man is crucified with him, your life is now hid with Christ).
We no longer live in former lusts (self-righteousness, unbelief,) but to the will of God.
---Haz27 on 1/25/11


Craig, your just like the rest, putting words in our mouths that we don't say. You said,
"You seem to subtley suggest this very thing when you say other Christians dont know God because they dont conform to your beliefs."
When did I ever say such a thing? "Conform to my beliefs?" Just another accusation. Then you gave Psa. 78, and give all this reasons against God, when you already know that from the fall of Adam man has been rejecting the gospel, even to killing the messengers of God. Everyone knows why/
"They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do" But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession etc"
---Mark_V. on 1/25/11


Leej, thanks for the reply but that didnt answer the question I asked.

Does it matter if a person is Catholic, Baptist, SDA, Mormon if its an election according to NOTHING we've done?

Does belief in predestination have ANYTHING to do with whether or not a man is saved? Cuz I havent read that anywhere in the gospel.

Please (if you can) show me in scripture where a man must believe in predestination to heaven and predestination to hell in order to be saved. The only predestination I have read is being conformed to the image of Christ, which has not yet happened.

And I dont consider the WCF scripture, so please dont bother.
---CraigA on 1/25/11


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Craig 2: As to the elect, God said, "For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" 1 Thess. 5:9.
"And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days" Mark 13:20.
"He upholdeth all things by the Word of His power" Heb. 1:3. Everything depends upon God. They cannot exist without Him permitting them to exist. "For a man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps" Pro. 16:9. To God be the glory forever and ever.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/11


kathr4453//Did Jesus sprinkle just a small portion on the mercy seat? ...That there was only so much blood to go around ! WRONG!!!!

Two very simple questions that need to be addressed before you answer these quesitons.

1) Is salvation wholly of God?

2) Is the harvest of souls limited to those whom God has called?

Don't you just hate that verse of scripture?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You may want to consult a dictionary as to the meaning of "except".
---leej on 1/25/11


leej:
you are correct, scripture confirms scripture.

Several of us here have been sharing those scriptures that show that Christ has set us free from sin and that we are no longer sinners.

I also used to believe that Christians sin. It was difficult to let go of such a traditional belief, but the scriptures do confirm that Christians are truly set free.
---Haz27 on 1/25/11


Mark_V:
You are taking those 1John scriptures out of context.

You change God's word in 1john3:6-9 claiming it speaks of "habitual" sin to fit your belief Christians sin.
What other scripture do you have that confirms "habitual" sin?

As you believe those who habitually sin are of the devil, what do you think of Paul who claims in 1Tim1:15 to be CHIEF sinner?
---Haz27 on 1/25/11


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//If you claim God chose us without any regard to anything we have done or will ever do, then whether or not a man is Calvinist, Catholic, SDA, Mormon, Baptist, Methodist does not determine his "election

Romans 9:11 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,)...

CraigA...you need to get rid of that Arminian belief system and recognize that God if sovereign. It is nto a matter of being a Calvinist but simply believing what the Bible says.
---leej on 1/25/11


Arminianism stresses human response to the gospel, conditional election, unlimited atonement and resistible grace. (Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms)
---leej on 1/24/11


yep, Westminster does have some strange definitions all right.

Limited or unlimited atonement is one crazy one.

You can no more limit or unlimited the Atonement than you can limit or unlimited the oxygen we breath!

Anyone who uses either term has no clue what the Atonement is.

Did Jesus sprinkle just a small portion on the mercy seat? First come first serve? Good only for a year? WHAT is limited atonement? Limited forgiveness? Limited access to God? WHAT?

That there was only so much blood to go around ! WRONG!!!!
---kathr4453 on 1/25/11


Hello again. "Will-monger" here.

How do you explain that the word of God says He was limited by the rebellion of Israel in Psalm 78?

How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!

Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.


This will be interesting...
---CraigA on 1/25/11


Mark, what exactly IS your reasoning for spending night after night here pushing your beliefs so vehemently?

If you claim God chose us without any regard to anything we have done or will ever do, then whether or not a man is Calvinist, Catholic, SDA, Mormon, Baptist, Methodist does not determine his "election". All these churches have FAITH in Jesus Christ.

Do you believe those who arent Calvinist are not saved? You seem to subtley suggest this very thing when you say other Christians dont know God because they dont conform to your beliefs.
---CraigA on 1/25/11


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--Your a coward for even suggesting my wife is on line as Christian. You cannot hide from God.-- Mark_V

Actually, Mark, that was me that suggested it. You guys mispell the same words and have the same condescending tone in your blogs which led me to believe that you were Christan. But I had to consider it might be your wife as well and maybe that would explain why the two of you are always in the same blogs.
---CraigA on 1/25/11


Here's a question to ALL of you. Has this truth manifest in your life? If you say NO, then I don't care who you are, you're not SAVED. You only have a head knowledge of salvation!


1 Peter 4
1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin,

2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/11


Duane, you and Haz might be great guys, saved by the Grace of God, but both of you are deluding yourselves. Or what the Bible calls deceived. John spoke in 1 John 1:8-10 already that "if you say you are without sin you deceive yourselves and the Truth is not in you." and in 2:1,2 "My little children (us believers) these things I write to you, so that you may not sin" indicating they do sin. So now I ask you
Do you think he would contradict himself and say that believers are without sin? Of course not. What he is talking about in 3: is that when a believer sins, he commits lawlessness. Meaning that we should not sin. Still indicating they do and he does not want them to.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/11


Haz27 - It is really a matter of interpreting scripture with scripture. If you base your belief that you are sinless by John 8, then you would have a contradiction with 1 John 1:8.

Sin is either disbelief or idolatry or in simple terms, anything that displeasing to God whether it may or may not be a violation of specific written law.
---leej on 1/25/11


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leej,you said:
"I do not know how one can go through some many interpretive gymnastics to get this verse to say what it does not say."

1John3:6-9 says Christians "DO NOT SIN". Are you going to give us your "interpretive gymnastics to get this verse to say what it does not say"?
Also perhaps 1Tim1:9, John8:34-37, 1Pet4:18.

By the way, what do you define as sin? Hopefully your answer will be scripture.
---Haz27 on 1/24/11


Alan, You threw that statement as bait, that maybe it could be my wife, out there to start something not there at all. It is a cowardly act, an evil intend out of your mouth to get attention to yourself as to how righteous you are and how terrible we are.
You also said,
"None of us here has ever suggested that God does not do what He pleases. We say that God is pleased to allow us freewill."
Yes you have, when you suggest that man with his free will has the right to choose his own destiny without God having anything to say about it. And you don't give one passage where it says what you quoted. Not one. Your a coward for even suggesting my wife is on line as Christian. You cannot hide from God.
---Mark_V. on 1/24/11


All born again believers are without sin. Sin is not imputed. Consider yourselves dead to sin.
People are so obsessed with the sin issue, that they have forgotten what the Cross did or what the good news is.
Some even believe we must admit having sin to be good truthful Christians. How misguided is that?
What is it? Having sin or freed from sin.
---duane on 1/24/11


Whether or not Christan is Mark, or his wife, they do share a characteristic.


---alan8566_of_uk on 1/24/11

Alan, they share several EXACT characteristics. The Exact POOR choice of words, like Proof instead of Prove, or Beliefs instead of Believes, and so on.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/11


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"None of us here has ever suggested that God does not do what He pleases. We say that God is pleased to allow us freewill." alan_of_UK

Rightly that you claim "We say", because one cannot find it in the Scripture of such an act from God. Bottomline, you are adding on unto the Word.

"If your God delights in death, he is not the god of the Bible. Mine dislikes it. (Ezekiel 33:11). He delights in repentance and forgiveness." CraigA

Where is your conviction that you claim "God DOES do as He pleases". Or did you mean to say that He can do as He please so long as He does not create a reprobate and send the person to hell? That claim smells of hypocrisy.
---christan on 1/24/11


---alan8566_of_uk //...along with such fabrications that we deny God's sovereignty. and want to claim credit for our salvation.

If you truly believe that God is soverign, then what prevents you from believing that He had ever right to chose Esau over Jacob, that He had the right to harden Pharoah's heart, that He selected Judas to do His will in betraying Christ, or that He may grant salvation only to those who would respond?

Arminianism stresses human response to the gospel, conditional election, unlimited atonement and resistible grace. (Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms)
---leej on 1/24/11


If the ones who believe themselves to be sinless from what they interpret from John 8:34-37, then they must ignore other verses of the Bible that would bring their contention into dispute.

Clearly, the Bible states -

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I do not know how one can go through some many interpretive gymnastics to get this verse to say what it does not say.
---leej on 1/24/11


kathr:
Do you acknowledge God's definitions of sin, such as I listed before?

Transgression of the law fits traditional beliefs of society. I use this definition mostly as it's what most people are stuck on.
Self-righteousness, pride, unbelief, is all rebellion against God (sin).
Rom2:12 tells us how whether you are without law or under law, to sin results in death.

You mentioned the "Galatians were Gentiles never under the law". Interestingly Gal3:23,24 says "before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ..."

But you are correct, it is Christ in us that sets us free from sin.
---Haz27 on 1/24/11


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TheSeq:
2Cor5:10 & Rev 20:12 speaks of separating wheat from tares. Those who believe on Jesus and those who reject him.

We are saved by grace, not works.
---Haz27 on 1/24/11


Craig, I do not have to use another name to be on line but Mark V. Kathr uses several names. It doesn't matter to me if they want to hide, that come from the heart. Our work is all for the glory of God, not our own glory as you suggested. After reading what Eloy Kathr write, my wife would never answer here. She cannot believe what most of you guys say. Doesn't understand why I even answer. That I should dust my shoes and walk away, she can see the lack of desire to know the Truth. A true Christian has a desire. So Craig, I do not need to use another name like many of you. I can take a punch from anyone of you, I have my Sword.
---Mark_V. on 1/24/11


Whether or not Christan is Mark, or his wife, they do share a characteristic.

Both misrepresent (bear false witness) about what those who disagree with them beleive and say.

This is Christan's latest: "This is not the Arminian idea of God: for our free-willers and our chance-mongers tell us, that God does not do whatsoever He pleases--- CHRISTAN"

None of us here has ever suggested that God does not do what He pleases. We say that God is pleased to allow us freewill.

This is the same old canard that MarkV has spouted many times, along with such fabrications that we deny God's sovereignty. and want to claim credit for our salvation
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/24/11


---"But our God is in heaven,
He does whatever He pleases." Psalm 115:3

This is not the Arminian idea of God: for our free-willers and our chance-mongers tell us, that God does not do whatsoever He pleases--- CHRISTAN

Bearing false witness to prove your case makes it look even weaker than ever.

God DOES do as He pleases and many of us have shown you what pleases God and what he has no pleasure in by the words from His very own mouth.

If your God delights in death, he is not the god of the Bible. Mine dislikes it. (Ezekiel 33:11). He delights in repentance and forgiveness.

If God delighted in the condemnation of sinners He never would have come here to save us. Open your heart.
---CraigA on 1/23/11


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I have a suspicion that I would like cleared up Mark. Knowing that youre a man of God I can count on you to tell the truth.

Is "Christan" your wife or another name you use here?
---CraigA on 1/24/11


Only the Christian will struggle with sin while he's in the flesh and when he dies in the flesh, he's totally set free from the sin nature.
---christan on 1/23/11

Christan
When you say "dies in the flesh" do you mean death, as in goes to the morgue, dead?
---David on 1/24/11


Haz27, being set free from the LAW doesn't automatically set you free from the POWER sin has over anyone.

Gentiles were never under the LAW to begin with to be set free from it.

What sets any man free, whether Jew or Gentile is OUR IDENTIFICATION with Christ in HIS Death FIRST, to be raised up a New Creature In Christ.

Christ in you gives that POWER OVER SIN....

Now a Gentile can Have Christ in them , never first being under law.

The Galatians were Gentiles NEVER UNDER THE LAW, but received the Spirit that was promised to ABRAHAM, long before the Law ever came into effect.

Paul NEVER put Gentiles under the LAW first so that he could deliver them from the law.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/11


John 8:34-37 must be confirmed with John 3:3-12 and that is, Jesus was referring to only those born of the Holy Spirit.

He reminds the Christian that before the Holy Spirit gave him life in his dead spirit, which was dead in sins and trespasses and he was a slave to his master, Satan (as explained in Ephesians 2:1-3).

The Christian, who has been born of the Holy Spirit, now has two nature in existence while he is still alive in the flesh. This is clearly taught by Paul in Romans 7. Only the Christian will struggle with sin while he's in the flesh and when he dies in the flesh, he's totally set free from the sin nature.
---christan on 1/23/11


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God's definitions of sin:

1:"transgression of the law" 1John3:4.
But Christians are SET FREE from the law Rom8:2 and "where there is no law there is no transgression(sin)Rom4:15.

2:Unbelief. John16:8. But Christians believe on Jesus.

3:No faith.Rom14:23. But Christians live by faith.

4:Unrighteousness. 1John5:17.
But Christians are righteous in Christ.

1Peter4:18 "if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the UNGODLY and SINNER appear?"

Either you are righteous or an ungodly, sinner.
Either you are a new creation or the old man remains.
---Haz27 on 1/23/11


I do agree that through Christ we are set free from THE LAW of sin and death. To me, that means we have eternal life Through Christ.

The Bible states, you sin, you die. But, after receiving Christ, do we die over and over based on the law of sin and death, if we sin?

Our man nature is so full of various sin, pride, self,and things we don't even know is sin, until the Holiness of God sheds a light on it.

It's a lifetime of the Work of God in us conforming us to His Image.

Those who claim instant sinlessness fail to understand 1st Peter 4....the fellowship of His sufferings and it's purpose.
---kathr4453 on 1/23/11


I believe God to be speaking from the end of time.
He said no one! So all have sinned!

But some feel because they believe in God, there sin are forgiven right now.
But I remember him saying all sins will be forgiven on to the son of man. Is this right (will be?)
And if this is not clear enough, then let's look at the book of the Revelation of Christ. That he show john!

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Judged!
---TheSeg on 1/23/11


And just in case! For you of the thousand years!
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Deal with it.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

All will stand before God. This means you!
If you are sinless why would you be judge?
You are Christ and he was crucified!
Peace!
---TheSeg on 1/23/11


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I was sinless for a few hours last night, then I woke up!!!!
---KarenD on 1/23/11


yes and no. God's spirit within us does not sin, the flesh where the Spirit lives does. So, you could answer either way.

bill answered the question best. why not stop this endless squabble? do you think anyone is going to answer any different than they did last week?

now, go and feed the poor...visit the widows/widowers...help the needy, then, this question will no longer be an issue. if it is, after that...
---aka on 1/23/11


"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable, there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Their throat is an open sepulchre, with their tongues they have used deceit, the poison of asps is under their lips:

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Romans 3:10-18

There's no exception to God's declaration.
---christan on 1/23/11


Are they sinless?" Yes. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus 'has made' [the believer] 'free from the law of sin and death.' " We "know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [Therefore] Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from 'all sin.' "
---Josef on 1/23/11


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People are not sinless by quoting scripture, but instead a person is sinless by virtue of not sinning: and people are not innocent by quoting verses, but instead a person is innocent by virtue of not being guilty. The Lord God says: "Every good tree brings forward good fruit, but a corrupt tree brings forward bad fruit. A good tree cannot bring forward bad fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forward good fruit. Wherefore by their fruits you all will know them, for from the fruit the tree is known." "Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remains in that one and that one cannot sin, because that one is born of God. Because as he is, so are we in this world."
---Eloy on 1/22/11


(John 8:34-36)
Jesus answered them, Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

This, amongst many other scriptures, show that Christians do not sin.
You are either:
Free or a slave.
Righteous or a sinner.
You cant be both.
---Haz27 on 1/22/11


Sinless? Yes, in the eyes of God (because they put their trust in Christ who has paid for their sins)

But, No, not at all in the eyes of men (because they are fallible as all Christians are)
---Donna66 on 1/22/11


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