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What Is A Behemoth In Job

In Job 40:15 'behold now behemoth, which I made with thee' (KJV) What do we think this is? Explain

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Peter: We are NOT told that tail is AS BIG AS A CEDAR - we are only told it 'moves like a cedar'

This can mean several things: The color is the same and it moves, it is furry (like the leaves of the cedar) and it moves

The important part is, as you said 'its strength is in its loins', which implies a strong middle, not necessarily a giant tail
---Steve on 2/1/11


The giant tail DOES IMPLY a reptile, yes

But I have NO PROBLEM with anyone who feels it is something else - after all, the ways of describing animals are different for different people, and so may be different for God.

Anyway, God does say: his strength is in his LOINS - middle, not his TAIL

ALSO - I cannot be ALL dinasaurs, because it is described as herbivore ONLY

So God never mentions carnivore dinasaur!
---Peter on 2/1/11


Warwick: "Cluny, you duck and weave, creatively missunderstanding solely to defend your nonBiblical man-made views"

It is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with Cluny. He does not believe that the Bible is the final authority on Creation, but rather his revered "Church Fathers". Without common ground for discussion, all you'll get is useless, tapdancing rhetoric. It reminds me of discussing Creation with the Atheist - no common ground.
---jerry6593 on 2/1/11


Cluny, you duck and weave, creatively missunderstandinbg solely to defend your nonBiblical man-made views.

I have explained this before and will happily do it again.

Consider Romans 8:22 part "For the creation groans..." Do you imagine Paul was saying the creation week was groaning because of the fall, which had yet to happen?

Of course not he was talking about "the creation" that which Jesus created, that in which Adam, Abraham, Jesus and we live.

Jesus, speaking about 1.5 million days from the beginning of creation (fully aware how long is took Him and on what day Adam was created) chose to say Adam, being made on day 6, was created at the beginning. Only a gnat strainer would object.
---Warwick on 1/29/11


---CraigA: Isn't the term 'son of God' used for angels in general?
---

Yeah its used for both, fallen and holy. The word "watcher" is also used. Youll notice that the writers will sometimes specify which type of angel they are referring to like in Daniel 4:23 which suggest to me that there arent just holy ones that are about.
---CraigA on 1/30/11




According to Genesis, God created all creatures on the same day as humans, the 6th day. In my E-sword, the Strong's definition for behemoth is: water ox, hippopotamus. But this is very clearly inaccurate when you read the following verses here. (He moveth his tail like a cedar: his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God). They very clearly describe what we call today a dinosaur that eats vegetation. Some cultures called them dragons. Descriptions, drawings & sculptures of dinosaurs exist from ancient times, supporting creation.
---Hope5979 on 1/30/11


\\In Matthew and Mark Jesus is talking about the creation (obviously not creation week) that which He created, that in which we live. Thinking Biblically who best knows when mankind was created? Creator or Man? The Creator of course and He says man was made at the beginning of this creation. The same creation as per Romans 8:22 "...the whole creation has been groaning..."\\

Let me paraphrase to see if I understand you properly.

In the OT, Jesus said that the earth and heavens were created at the beginning of Creation, but mankind on the sixth day.

And in the NT, He said that mankind was created in the BEGINNING of Creation.

Do I understand you right?
---Cluny on 1/29/11


alan, that's funny. I thought santa lived up in the North Pole with a bunch of elves.
---Eloy on 1/29/11


//Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. //

that sentence does not say that one day the sons of god presented including satan. in fact, it seems to infer that satan was not really part of that group.

but, if you look up the hebrew name of "sons" of god, that is one of the many english words you can use to tranlate it.
---aka on 1/29/11


Cluny we have covered this repeatedly. Your short term memory is appareltly shot!

In Matthew and Mark Jesus is talking about the creation (obviously not creation week) that which He created, that in which we live. Thinking Biblically who best knows when mankind was created? Creator or Man? The Creator of course and He says man was made at the beginning of this creation. The same creation as per Romans 8:22 "...the whole creation has been groaning..."

Therefore Jesus is correct, man was made at the beginning of this creation.

As you also know I do not take Scripture literally, but at face value, unless there is some good reason not to do so.
---Warwick on 1/29/11




CraigA: Isn't the term 'son of God' used for angels in general?

I am not arguing, I just had the impression that the term can be used for any angel, fallen or unfallen
---Peter on 1/29/11


\\alan, Deer fly only in imaginations and cartoons and in movie production. Let's get back to the Bible, and back to the truth.
---Eloy on 1/28/11\\

Eloy, you were the one who said that reindeer and dinosaurs did not exist. TWICE.

NOBODY here said either of them flew.

Remember, writing clearly means thinking clearly.
---Cluny on 1/29/11


Hi Eloy ... Yes indeed, neither deer nor reindeer fly ... that is part of the secular Xmas fantasy!

But reindeer do exist! I suppose they and the sleigh have been hijacked as Santa's transport because they bot actually they live an work in Lapland, shich somhow is reckoned to be where santa hangs out when he's not whizzing round the globe deliverinfg presents
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/29/11


reindeer aka caribou
---aka on 1/29/11


---Then you believe that Satan is a son of God who has access to heaven.
---Cluny on 1/28/11

Why would he not believe that when scripture says its so?

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.


Not everyone believes that the war in heaven has already occured. The only sons of God that Ive read are bound are those from Gen 6/Jude 1.
---CraigA on 1/29/11


alan, Deer fly only in imaginations and cartoons and in movie production. Let's get back to the Bible, and back to the truth.
---Eloy on 1/28/11


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\\Jesus the Creator, who was obviously there says man was made at the beginning of creation, not even thousands of years later, let alone millions of years-see Matthew 19:4, and Mark 10:6 \\

Warwick, even an earthly literalistic reading of Genesis 1 (to which I do not bind God as some people here do) says that mankind was created a few days AFTER Creation started.

Genesis 1:1 does not say, "In the beginning there was man."
---Cluny on 1/28/11


Behemoth: BETH-HE-MEM-WAW-TAW
(BEIT-HEI-MEM-VAV-TAV)
BETH- house or dwelling-strength, support, protection
HE- window or opening-light, breath, sight
MEM- body of water-size, life, power
VAV- hook, pag, or nail-joined, fixed, solid
TAV- mark, stamp, or seal-separate, unique, identified.
I'm not near knowing Hebrew, just what I read...
char may be one who can clarify and correct....
---micha9344 on 1/28/11


If this is poetic, then why cannot behemoth draining a river also be poetic?
---Cluny on 1/28/11

Cluny
Poetic?... No, I don't believe so.
In (Job 40-41) God appears to be angry with Job, and in that anger, God reveals a myriad of things that only God can do.
Job was in effect, the Pot, that questioned the Potter.(Romans 9:20).

If God was angry in these passages, as I believe he was, he would be stating cold hard facts, not poetry.
It is because of Gods anger in these passages, that causes me to believe as I do.
---David on 1/29/11


larry: Your explanadion of Behemoth would be fine, but the word is NOT in the original (Hebrew)

Anyone know enough Hebrew to explain what the word means?
---Peter on 1/28/11


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Job 39:19
Hast thou given the horse strength? hast thou clothed his neck withthunder?

David, do you believe that there is literally thunder on a horse's neck?

If this is poetic, then why cannot behemoth draining a river also be poetic?
---Cluny on 1/28/11


\\Your argument is not with me, for I am not the Author of the passage, and you are free to believe what you want.
I believe it, because it is what God said.
---David on 1/28/11\\

Then you believe that Satan is a son of God who has access to heaven.
---Cluny on 1/28/11


Yeah you know those elephants and their tails that resemble cedar trees...

*sigh*
---CraigA on 1/28/11


A lake could be drained, temporarily or permanently, but not a river.---Cluny on 1/27/11

Cluny
Your argument is not with me, for I am not the Author of the passage, and you are free to believe what you want.
I believe it, because it is what God said.
---David on 1/28/11


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Eloy ... Reindeer do exist.
---alan8566_of_uk on 1/28/11


Larry don't you see the irony of the situation: that you discuss Biblical events with a nonBiblical frame of mind?

Jesus the Creator, who was obviously there says man was made at the beginning of creation, not even thousands of years later, let alone millions of years-see Matthew 19:4, and Mark 10:6

Are you saying He is wrong? That any man knows better?
---Warwick on 1/28/11


The reason some reject Behemoth as being a dinosaur, is because they have accepted long-ages/evolution. This forces them to believe that dinosaurs became extinct c 60 million years ago. Therefore behemoth cannot be a dinosaur, they say. All for nonBiblical reasons.

As this man-made belief is contradicted by Scripture those who hold these antiBiblical views cannot be Bible-believing. You believe one or the other.
---Warwick on 1/28/11


\\Unregenerate people foolishly try to mix imaginary myths with the truth. dinosaurs and dragons are in the same category as reindeer and easter bunnies\\

Reindeer exist. There are even photographs of them you can find on line.

As far as dinosaurs, once an old farmer saw a dinosaur skeleton in a museum and said, "There ain't no such animal and ain't never been."
---Cluny on 1/28/11


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A comment here - IT IS NOT AN ACCUSATION, PLEASE NOTE

Some hundreds of years ago, the then church accused people who believed the earth went round the sun of many of the things we now accuse those who beleive evolution

We MUST be careful, I have read many well-known Christians (Bible Beleiving, as we say) who are uncertain, some who look at things from the evolutionary side (CS Lewis, though I dont know if he believed it), some who reject it

All were still Christians, though clearly some were misled
---James on 1/28/11


Unregenerate people foolishly try to mix imaginary myths with the truth. dinosaurs and dragons are in the same category as reindeer and easter bunnies. But that is the besuty of free thinking, some people delight in believing fantasies, and others of us delight in believing the truth.
---Eloy on 1/27/11


\\Spot on Craig. Bible-believing Christian have no problem accepting Behemoth as a dinosaur.\\

And there are other Bible-believing Christians who are unconvinced of this.

** If we can prove they existed as little as 6 thousand years ago it shows just how wrong scientists are.**

And that's a BIG "if."
---Cluny on 1/27/11


commentators say the word behemoth is the plural of behemah, which signifies cattle in general, or graminivorous animals, as distinguished from chayetho, all wild or carnivorous animals.
Maybe behemoth is an elephant or wooly mammoth knowing the brontasaurus perished long before the flood perhaps millions of years ago.
---larry on 1/27/11


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Spot on Craig. Bible-believing Christian have no problem accepting Behemoth as a dinosaur. And Leviathan as a sea creature, maybe a Kronosaurus. But some fight hard against these ideas because they 'know' these creatures became extinct millions of years before man arrived on the scene.

This is why they argue so long and hard about the days of creation not being 6 24hr days. If they accept creation days as defined they will have to reject their antiBiblical long-ages evolutionary views.

Many of them would be ashamed to admit to believing God's word in preference to socalled scientific fact. Let us fear God not man.

They have accepted an implausible lie and because of this reject the obvious meaning of God's word.
---Warwick on 1/27/11


Its amazing what people will deny simply because they are too afraid of the truth.

I guess Leviathan (ch 41) is a crocodile now right? A fire-breathing croc with glowing eyes....

Why is everyone horrified at the thought of dragons and dinosaurs being real? If we can prove they existed as little as 6 thousand years ago it shows just how wrong scientists are.
---CraigA on 1/27/11


\\"Temporarily drain a river", as in a few seconds, which I said in a previous post.\\

How can a river be "temporarily drained"?

It's either drained, hence has ceased to exist, or it isn't.

A lake could be drained, temporarily or permanently, but not a river.

**There is no such thing as dinosaurs, for they are a complete fabrication from the childish imagination of unregenerate man.**

I guess the fossils and even fully articulated skeletons found in many museums are figments of people's imaginations.
---Cluny on 1/27/11


There is no such thing as dinosaurs, for they are a complete fabrication from the childish imagination of unregenerate man. None are recorded in history, and none recorded in scripture. But you may find one named "dino" on a child's cartoon called "the flinstones". Get back to the Bible people, and back to the truth.
---Eloy on 1/26/11


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\\As I see it the only reason some Christians reject the idea of Behemoth being a dinosaur is because it contradicts the nonBiblical time scale they have accepted\\

Not necessarily. I don't reject it out of hand. I just find the arguments unconvincing.

\\If someone accepts Genesis 1 as written what possible problem is there if dinosaurs and man lived at the same time? None.\\

If someone accepts Genesis 1 as written, then he winds up believing that God is caught INSIDE time, though it is His creation, and that He took a day off, though Jesus said, "My father works on the Sabbath and so do I."

How do you explain that contradiction?
---Cluny on 1/26/11


If they indeed consumed a river every time they drank, there would have been no rivers rather soon, and hence the dinosaurs (as well as other animals) would have died of thirst.

Maybe THAT'S why they went extinct!
---Cluny on 1/26/11

"Temporarily drain a river", as in a few seconds, which I said in a previous post.

Cluny
Are you trying to rattle my chain, or is this just the way you treat people who try to have an adult conversation with you?

---David on 1/27/11


As I see it the only reason some Christians reject the idea of Behemoth being a dinosaur is because it contradicts the nonBiblical time scale they have accepted.

If someone accepts Genesis 1 as written what possible problem is there if dinosaurs and man lived at the same time? None.
---Warwick on 1/26/11


Behemoth a lion?

That actually made me laugh.
---CraigA on 1/26/11


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Eloy, you are of course entitled to your opinion but to in any way liken a lions small tail to the mighty cedar tree stretches my imagination.

And further as mentioned before, repeatedly, people using simple tools have no problem capturing lions. The same goes for all living animals. Man, using simple hand-thrown harpoons has hunted and killed massive whales. The description clearly fits with one of the massive herbivorous dinosaurs.

The argument is mainly carried along by those who will not believe man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. They do not get this idea from Scripture.
---Warwick on 1/26/11


\\The larger Dinosaur's are the only animals, known to man, with "Tail's like Cedar Trees", and because of their watering requirements, be capable of drinking up a river.\\

Were they so capable?

If they indeed consumed a river every time they drank, there would have been no rivers rather soon, and hence the dinosaurs (as well as other animals) would have died of thirst.

Maybe THAT'S why they went extinct!
---Cluny on 1/26/11


I see that it is reasonable to consider the behemoth as a dinasaur, but I do not see it is essential
---James on 1/26/11


Warwick, "He moves his tail like a cedar", simply means that the lion has a long tail. The cedar is commonly called the Lord's Tree, which is noted for it's great height (Song of Solomon 5:15+ Amos 2:9).
---Eloy on 1/25/11


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Neither horses nor giraffes are "enormous" when compared with other mammas such as pachyderms and whales.
---Cluny on 1/25/11

"Enormous", as to comparing an animal that inhales water, to one that laps up water.

Cluny
Since it was God who created all Animals, we know from the larger animals that exist today, they must inhale their water to meet their watering needs, as according to the size of the animal.
Since the Dinosaur's and the Animals today have the same creator, the Dinosaur would probably have the same needs.

The larger Dinosaur's are the only animals, known to man, with "Tail's like Cedar Trees", and because of their watering requirements, be capable of drinking up a river.
---David on 1/26/11


\\Many of us have seen large animals, such as a horse or Giraffe drink water.
By design, because of their enormous size, God created these animals so that they could inhale their water, vs. lapping water like a dog.\\

Neither horses nor giraffes are "enormous" when compared with other mammas such as pachyderms and whales.
---Cluny on 1/25/11


Eloy that lions may now or in the future eat stray is irelevant. The description of 'behemoth' does not fit with a lion.

Do lions have tails like a cedar tree? No.

"When the river rages he is not alarmed." He should be as a raging river will sweep lions and much larger creatures away.

Can anyone trap him? Yes, easily.

Job's description does not not fit any living creature. It does fit with a large herbivouous dinosaur.

However to those sold out to worldly nonBiblical views this just cannot be.

Compromise on Genesis perverts a persons beliefs about other Scriptures!
---Warwick on 1/25/11


Warwick, I already posted the scriptures, where a lion can eat straw like an ox, which refutes what you dis. Even though lions, after the fall, have been classified as carnivorous meat-eaters, lions have been witnessed eating fruits and chewing on plants, even as domesticated cats will nip on cat nip.
---Eloy on 1/25/11


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But is it in fact a dinosaur that is being described?
---Cluny on 1/24/11

Many of us have seen large animals, such as a horse or Giraffe drink water.
By design, because of their enormous size, God created these animals so that they could inhale their water, vs. lapping water like a dog.
When you see these large Dinosaurs in a Museum, it's not too hard to imagine that one of these beasts would have temporarily drained a river when they drank.

By simple deduction, man has never known of any animal, except the Dinosaur, that would be capable of doing this.
---David on 1/25/11


Excellent point Peter!

I must say for myself, I will just sit on the fence. I can't decide either way until more facts come in.
---John on 1/24/11


Since this ONE place where both dinosaur and human footprints supposedly exist in the same stratum of rock, it's an anomaly, and therefore nothing much can be deduced from it at the present time.
---Cluny on 1/24/11


John: When I search that, I get soe Christian sites that claim that, a few that are not certain, and all the scientifica papers published stating the two footprints ar ejust at the same place, not the same age.

It is not a reliable statement
---James on 1/24/11


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John: Thanks for the advice - yes, I found a number of sites that refer to them, though reading through the 'scientific' arguments is long and complicated.......

Some suggest the two are not of the same age, some say the two are

I will have to search more closely (it is always hard to be sure with these, because some 'scientists' automatically assume the footprints MUST be a mistake, while some Christians automativally feel they MUST be of the same age, and we get in a bit of a mess

I'll have to look through it more closely
---Peter on 1/24/11


\\---how did a description of the Dinosaur, end up in a book that is thousands of years old,\\

But is it in fact a dinosaur that is being described?
---Cluny on 1/24/11


Eloy, Job says Behemoth is vegetarian, has a tail likened to a cedar tree, and that no one can capture him.

None of this corresponds with a lion, nor for that matter any currently living creature.
---Warwick on 1/24/11


Peter, Cluny,
Google...
human and dinosaur footprints
---John on 1/24/11


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---If the discovery of the Dinosaur is only hundreds of years old, how did a description of the Dinosaur, end up in a book that is thousands of years old, when they say the Dinosaur has been extinct for millions of years?
---David on 1/23/11

Excellent, David!

This would make even Richard Dawkins squirm in his chair.
---CraigA on 1/24/11


Pete, It was several years back on either the Discovery channel or the History Channel . These are cable channels here in the USA.

They had photos and videos and both footprints were dated at the same time period. The foot prints were side by side.

I will see if I can find it.
---John on 1/24/11


"Behemoth" literally means, "mammoth beast". I believe behemoth is descriptive of the lion (ref: Job 40:15+ Isaiah 65:25).
---Eloy on 1/24/11


Cluny saying there was no such thing as a dinosaur because of the variety is the same as saying there is no such thing as a dog because of the variety.

Richard owen coined the name dinosaur to describe the fossilized remain of a class of bird-hipped reptiles. The fact they existed from chicken size to monsters does not change the fact that they are dinosaurs. Just like Behemoth, obviously a big one.
---Warwick on 1/24/11


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John: 'They did find Human tracks and dinosaur tracks together.'

Can you tell me where I canfind this evidence - it is interesting, but I have been provided with a large amount of so-called 'evidence' here that is not very good

If you can provided it, I wil be happy to study it, and see how reliable it is
---Peter on 1/23/11


\\Why is there a problem accepting Behemoth as a dinosaur?
---Warwick on 1/23/11 \\

Because there is no such thing as "a dinosaur." There are many different kinds. Not all were the lumbering giants.

**They did find Human tracks and dinosaur tracks together.
---John on 1/23/11**

1. Who are "they"?

2. Where?

3. When?
---Cluny on 1/23/11


David that is an interesting way to challenge them.

It is obvious that it is only people's nonBiblical views which stop them from accepting Behemoth as a dinosaur.
---Warwick on 1/23/11


Why is there a problem accepting Behemoth as a dinosaur?
---Warwick on 1/23/11

I have caused doubt, in some athiests I have known, with what is written in Job 40-41.
How?
I have them read the passages and then ask them what they believe is being discribed in those verses.
Their answer is always.....The Dinosaur.

Why does this cause them doubt?
Because I then ask them this question:
If the discoverery of the Dinosaur is only hundreds of years old, How did a description of the Dinosaur, end up in a book that is thousands of years old, when they say the Dinosaur has been extinct for millions of years?
---David on 1/23/11


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They did find Human tracks and dinosaur tracks together.
---John on 1/23/11


The description in Job 40:15 does not fit with any living creature. Some say it describes an elephant or hippo. But God says Behemoth has a tail like a ceder tree. Have you seen the little tails of elephant or hippo? Twigs!

When we see the skeletons of the larger dinosaurs there we see such a tail, and massive creatures which man could not capture. The description in Job fits only with such creatures.

Why is there a problem accepting Behemoth as a dinosaur?
---Warwick on 1/23/11


" What do we think this is? Explain"
Personally I believe it is what scientist refer to as a dinosaur, specifically, based on the description given, a Brachiosaurus.
---Josef on 1/22/11


Psa 104:25-27 There is the sea, great and broad, In which are swarms without number, Animals both small and great. There the ships move along, And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it. They all wait for You To give them their food in [fn] due season.
Leviathan mythical?
Well, David was mad according to the people of Gath.
Behemoth is a sauropod.
Unicorn is a rhinoceros.
Leviathan is a plesiosaur.
Dragon is a dinosaur.
---micha9344 on 1/22/11


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Well The Unicorn is a Rhinocerous.
The Leviathin is a Crocodile.

Not sure about a Behemouth. It may be general term for a large animal of some sort.
---John on 1/22/11


Behemoth and Leviathan were mythical animals to people in the Near East, just as the unicorn was a mythical animal in Europe. Job is an allegory, a great story, conveying much truth.
---John.usa on 1/22/11


\\ Like this, we are not going to control God. This is the point, I think.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/22/11\\

Good point, Bill! Thumbs up!
---Cluny on 1/22/11


Crocs arent herbivores, they are carnivores. Cedar trees are far bigger than a crocodiles tail.

Its what everyone doesnt want to face. Its evidence of gigantic creatures that were have found fossils of. Its a type of "dinosaur".

Fire breathing dragons are also mentioned in scripture and are cast aside as somethin else because it is too frightening to think these things actually were here and may STILL be here in parts of the world.
---CraigA on 1/22/11


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Behemoth in Job is a Dinosaur
Katie
---Katie on 1/22/11


Does what "we" think this is really matter?

The real question is what does GOD mean by this.
---Cluny on 1/22/11


This behemoth "eats grass like an ox" (in Job 40:15) and is very powerful so no one can control it. This could be a hippopotamus or a Cape buffalo. But "He moves his tail like a cedar," we have in Job 40:17. That would be more like a Nile crocodile or an even bigger saltwater crocodile that can be over thirty feet long, I think, but . . . does not eat grass (c:

But we can imagine how any of these animals can not be controlled by what people think or trying to use weapons or fear to control them or "behemoth". Like this, we are not going to control God. This is the point, I think.
---Bill_willa6989 on 1/22/11


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