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Who When Changed Sabbath

Who, when, and by what authority was the Lord's Day changed from Sabbath to Sunday.

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 ---jerry6593 on 1/23/11
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\\You don't have any points - only silly childish arguments aimed at justifying your disobedience to God's word in deference to your adherence to Catholic doctrine.\\

In other words, you can't answer my questions, either, jerry.

**Don't try to bogg down the sabbath of God with your man made rules, like not driving to church, and not taking a shower, and whatever else you can come up with.
---FRANCIS on 1/30/11**

francis, it is God's word that forbids lighting fires on the Sabbath,

Since cars work by lighting many fires, this is why pious Jews will not drive on Shabbat.

All you are saying is that you PICK AND CHOOSE which of the Bibical laws you obey--but condemn others for doing the same thing.
---Cluny on 1/30/11


francis, apparently you are not comprehending the scriptures you have read, or else you have not read all the verses. For whom do these scriptures say was resurrected on the first day? and whom do these scriptures say his disciples worshipped on the first day? and whom do the scriptures say is Jesus Christ? Know you all that Jesus, he God, none else. Indeed Christ is the Lord, and he rightly received their worship of him on the first day, his day, namely, Sunday the Lord's Resurrection Day.
---Eloy on 1/30/11


---Eloy on 1/29/11

I read them all

Matthew and luke spoke about Jessu being resurrected on THE FIRST DAY

ACTS 20:7 tells about the disciple coming to break bread on the first day

1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul asked that they put aside some thng AT HOME on the first day of the week

Not one verse about the first day being " THE LORD's DAY."

So how did you come to that conclusion?
---Francis on 1/29/11


Peter: Adding to your comment about languages, did you know that the root word for the day we call Saturday is SABBATH in over 100 of the earth's languages? In Greek, it is Sabbaton, in Spanish, Sabado, in Russian, Subota, etc. etc.

The prophet Daniel fortold that the "little horn", "beast", "antichrist" power "would think to change times and laws." The Sabbath Commandment is the ONLY Law which concerns time, and the Catholic Church claims to have changed the Lord's Day from Sabbath to Sunday.
---jerry6593 on 1/30/11


Cluny: "And I notice that you did not actually answer my point.

Your conscience (what there is of it) must have been pricked."

You don't have any points - only silly childish arguments aimed at justifying your disobedience to God's word in deference to your adherence to Catholic doctrine.

Now, like Mark V, you claim to be able to read my conscience? Might as well. After all, God speaks directly to you just like He does to Catherine. Good grief!
---jerry6593 on 1/30/11




---Cluny on 1/29/11

my point here is this:
Mark 2:27 The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Don't try to bogg down the sabbath of God with your man made rules, like not driving to church, and not taking a shower, and whatever else you can come up with.
---FRANCIS on 1/30/11


---StrongAxe / cluny

My answer to you both is the same: Do not try to bogg down the word of God with your man made doctrines.

Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Numbers 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot,..
Numbers 28:10 This is the BURNT offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

See on the sabbath day the priest had to make two sacrifices instead of one, and he had to BURN IT on fire.

So your driving a car to church stuff, laughable. and if i were cold can i not kindle a fire on the sabbath to save a life?
---francis on 1/30/11


\\Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him, \\

Who is fed by your lighting the fires of an internal combustion engine on the Sabbath?

And I notice that you did not actually answer my point.

Your conscience (what there is of it) must have been pricked.
---Cluny on 1/29/11


francis, I already have posted four scriptures for all below: accept the scriptures and reject them not. Here I Re-Post them again for you to read:
Please read- Matthew 28:1,5,6,9,16,17, Luke 24:1,5-8,51-53, Acts 20:7, I Corinthians 16:2.
---Eloy on 1/29/11


francis:

Do you know how electric motors work? Every time the axle rotates, electrical connections are made and broken, creating sparks, which are formed of ionized air - i.e. technically "fire".

Even though the amount of "fire" generated by a motor in an electrical automobile engine is miniscule compared to that generated by an internal combustion engine (not to mention spark plugs), it's still there.
---StrongAxe on 1/29/11




And the Lord's Day is Sunday morning at sunrise (6:00am) and lasts the whole entire day. ---Eloy on 1/29/11

I hope you have a scripture that shows that the first day of the week is the lord's day. ONE VERSE will do.

My Bible tells me that the Lord's day is sabbath:
Isaiah 58:13..the sabbath, my holy day,.. the holy of the LORD

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God
---francis on 1/29/11


Now, do you drive your car on the Sabbath?

If you do, you are violating it, because the Bible forbids kindling fires on the Sabbath, -Cluny on 1/28/11

What if i had an electric
car?

Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him,
Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Matthew 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had [his] hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
---francis on 1/29/11


-jerry6593: You are correct, of course, in that Revelation does not say WHAT day of the week it was.

I feel though, that as the term 'Lord's' is used for Sunday in a number of languages, including the one in which Revelation was written, it seems more likely than not that John meant Sunday

You comment that I am 'adding' to Revelation is maybe a bit too much - I took it that I was interpreting it, but perhaps too much

If I erred, sorry
---Peter on 1/29/11


There is also the little comment (in 1 Cor 16:2) about 'setting aside some money' (for the church) on the first day (Sunday)
---Steve on 1/29/11


"or there are some real divisions in the doctrines of all the different eastern orthodox churches, but then again that would weaken your claim your churcxh is the only true one would it not?
---andy3996 on 1/29/11"

Name the differences that exist in dogmas in the canonical Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions (for example, the Orthodox Church of America, Russian Orthodox Church, the Russian Orthodox Church outside of Russia, the Church of Antioch, the Church of Jerusalem, etc) (note: I said "Eastern Orthodox" not "Oriental Orthodox" or the other Eastern Churches) and provide sources for your claims.

Looking forward for your reply.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 1/29/11


\\Peter: John's vision on "the Lord's Day" does not identify the day of the week, ...,\\

Of what day is Jesus NOT the Lord, jerry?

**Cluny Ok if you are unwilling to admit colr, for there are some real divisions in the doctrines of all the different eastern orthodox churches, but then again that would weaken your claim your churcxh is the only true one would it not?
---andy3996 on 1/29/11**

I don't know what "colr" means, but there is NO difference between the doctrines of the Orthodox Churches of Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Russia, or the others who subscribe to the Chalcedonian council.

Where did you get the idea that there was?
---Cluny on 1/29/11


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Cluny: "and the internal combustion engine works by kindling hundreds and thousands of fires"

I have read that the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. I can see that you have no limits to the ridiculous claims you will make in order to disobey God's Commandments.

This may be a shock to you, but they didn't have cars in Bible times. Kindling a fire back then, in contrast to pushing a button or turning a switch nowadays, was a difficult and time-consuming process. If you have a fireplace, you know that kindling (starting) is much harder than sustaining a fire - even with matches. Imagine doing it without any matches.
---jerry6593 on 1/29/11


The Sabbath Day (Rest Day) and The Lord's Day (Resurrection Day) are two different days. The Sabbath Day, or more correctly Sabbath Days because it begins on one day and ends on the next, is Friday night at even (6:00pm) up to Saturday night at even (6:00pm). And the Lord's Day is Sunday morning at sunrise (6:00am) and lasts the whole entire day. Sabbath-keeping is an abolished O.T. Law. Born-again Christians worship on Sunday because Jesus resurrected from the dead on Sunday, the first day of the week, and the disciples worshipped him then. Please read Matthew 28:1,5,6,9,16,17, Luke 24:1,5-8,51-53, Acts 20:7, I Corinthians 16:2.
---Eloy on 1/29/11


>At least you admit you do NOT object to services on Sunday.

>So if YOU can worship on Sunday, so can I.

A Sunday service doesn't mean that it is the time to worship God. You are to work 6 days a week and only worship on the seventh day.
---David_Conklin on 1/29/11


At least you admit you do NOT object to services on Sunday.

So if YOU can worship on Sunday, so can I.

Now, do you drive your car on the Sabbath?

If you do, you are violating it, because the Bible forbids kindling fires on the Sabbath, and the internal combustion engine works by kindling hundreds and thousands of fires a minute.
---Cluny on 1/28/11


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Peter: John's vision on "the Lord's Day" does not identify the day of the week, so your assertion that he is referring to Sunday is mere supposition, and is adding to scripture. In fact, the New Testament affirms in three places that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath Day, and nowhere does it mention His being Lord of Sunday. Jesus and ALL of His disciples kept the Sabbath Day decades after the resurrection, so if Jesus intended a change in "the Lord's Day", He didn't bother to tell anyone about it.
---jerry6593 on 1/29/11


Cluny Ok if you are unwilling to admit colr, for there are some real divisions in the doctrines of all the different eastern orthodox churches, but then again that would weaken your claim your churcxh is the only true one would it not?
---andy3996 on 1/29/11


--Cluny on 1/28/11
No Objection whatsoever to gathering on Sunday for worship. Infact our church has been gathering all this week except Thursday and that included Sunday.

Exodus 20:10 the seventh day is the sabbath:
Keeping the sabbath:
Exodus 16:30 rest on the seventh day.
Exodus 20:10 not do any work,
Leviticus 23:7 no servile work therein.
Ezekiel 46:3 worship in the sabbaths
Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath, my holy day, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Mark 3:4 do good on the sabbath days, save life,

Acts 13:44 the sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
---francis on 1/28/11


\\Cluny, out of interest, what orthodox church do you belong to? eastern you say, but is it the coptic Egyptian, the libanese, the Armenian, the Greek or yet another? just interested.
---andy3996 on 1/28/11\\

I've explained elsewhere that Copts, Armenians, and some others are properly ORIENTAL Orthodox, not Eastern Orthodox.

The Lebanese Orthodox are for hundreds of years part of the Antiochian Patriarchate.

The Eastern Orthodox is ONE church with different local administration.

And, as I said, like most converts to it, I prefer to be called "Orthodox" without an ethnic label.
---Cluny on 1/28/11


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francis,
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:6a He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord, and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
Gal 3:10a For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:
---micha9344 on 1/28/11


---micha9344 on 1/27/11
These are your worse comments yet! NOTIVE
1: Isaiah 56:6 the sons of the stranger,.. his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, ( NOT ISRAEL ONLY)
2: nothing in the NT by ay writer sets the first day apart as special or holy
3: Jesus rose THE THIRD DAY NOT 8th day
4: MOSES POINTED TO JESUS
Luke 24:27 And beginning at MOSES and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Acts 7:37 This is that MOSES, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me, him shall ye hear.

It is from Moses and thr prophets that we preach jesus cricified
---francis on 1/28/11


---micha9344 on 1/27/11
My Bible KJV says he rose the THIRD DAY:
Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the THIRD DAY, and shewed him openly,
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the THIRD DAY:
Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the THIRD DAY he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the THIRD DAY according to the scriptures:
Matthew 26:61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in THREE DAYS

YOUR BIBLE SAYS 8TH DAY HUH.
STOP THE FOOLSGNESS
---francis on 1/28/11


Even if I was alone and did not rest from any work on the seventh day as was commanded to Israel, that too is an act of worship.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---micha9344 on 1/28/11


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Cluny, out of interest, what orthodox church do you belong to? eastern you say, but is it the coptic Egyptian, the libanese, the Armenian, the Greek or yet another? just interested.
---andy3996 on 1/28/11


\\Who made them holy?\\

I've learned that EVERY day is holy with Jesus, as He's the Lord of all ages, not just the Sabbath.

Would you like me to introduce you to Him?

And you've STILL not answered my question about which day we may NOT worship God.
---Cluny on 1/28/11


Part 2:

\\What we EAT is an act of worship
How we dress is an act of worship
How we treat each other is an act of worship
How we behave at work is an act of worship
and even If i was ALONE and keep the sabbath, that too is an act of worship

so we worship every day every minute every hours
---francis on 1/27/11
\\

1. So you clearly have no objection to gathering for worship on Sunday as such, right?

2. Just what do you mean by "Keep the Sabbath"?
---Cluny on 1/28/11


Jerry: The oldest I know is from Revelation, when John says 'on the Lord's day' (in Greek, in which he wrote, that is now the term for Sunday)

So in the Bible there is an indiaction that the day of Jesus' resurection already had given its name to that day
---Peter on 1/28/11


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---Cluny Worship is more than just keeping sabbath.

What i am trying to tell you is this: Worship is more than just getting together and praising, It is how SDA live every day
To a SDA worship of God is: OBEDIENCE, SERVICE, and allegiance.

What we EAT is an act of worship
How we dress is an act of worship
How we treat each other is an act of worship
How we behave at work is an act of worship
and even If i was ALONE and keep the sabbath, that too is an act of worship

so we worship every day every minute every hours
---francis on 1/27/11


Cluny: So, do you consider every day of the week as equally holy? Who made them holy? The Bible records that God only made one day holy - the seventh day Sabbath. Who then is equal to God in that he can make days holy? Is it you? Was it the Orthodox Church Fathers? Who?
---jerry6593 on 1/28/11


\\your question about which day are we forbidden to worship is just laughable:\\

In other words, you cannot answer it.
---Cluny on 1/27/11


The seventh day is the day of rest(Sabbath)commanded to Isael.
The eighth day (first day) is the day when the Lord arose from the grave(Lord's day).
They are two seperate signs of different covenants.
Exo 31:16-17b Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever...
Mark 16:9a Now when [Jesus] was risen early the first [day] of the week,
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness,
---micha9344 on 1/27/11


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Francis, the day of the Lord, the sabbath, is fulfilled by Christ. Christ has become our day of rest.
He says this very clearly.
We are new creatures in Christ.
The law is old and has past away. All is fulfilled in Christ and in him all these things are done for us by him.
We rest in Christ because he is our sabbath. Our day of rest. It does not matter what day one worships on. The reason is because every man lives and dies unto the Lord.
If you choose to worship on saturday, that is fine, but do not judge another servant because of what day he chooses to worship on.
Instead, look at the weightier matter which is showing love to one another.
---ginger on 1/27/11


Of what day is Jesus NOT the Lord? On what day are we FORBIDDEN to worship?
Cluny on 1/27/11
You are getting spanked. I hate to kick a man when he is down but:
Exodus 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
God gived six days to man to do his work, and makes no claims on what man may do on those days providing he does not trangress the law.

God reserves one day for himself:
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:

So God gives six days to man reserves ONE for himself

your question about which day are we forbidden to worship is just laughable:
Worship is the act of OBEDIENCE, SERVICE, and allegiance.
keeping the sabbath even when you are alone is worship.
---francis on 1/27/11


\\Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to WORSHIP before me, saith the LORD.

No, it's your turn to answer a question.

By what authority do you call Sunday the Lord's Day?
---jerry6593 on 1/27/11\\

Of what day is Jesus NOT the Lord?

Now, answer this question:

On what day are we FORBIDDEN to worship?
---Cluny on 1/27/11


Lisa//The Catholics say the Lords day is Sunday and thats where the change came about.

Obviously you are very ignorance of church history as you believe in what Ellen White a false prophetess taught. She never never never even heard of the Eastern Orthodox or other Apostolic church which never never never were under the auspices of Rome nor did they observe the Jewish Sabbath.

Suggest you find yourself a book on church history written by reputable church historians otherwise you will forever be stuck under the smelly skirts of olde Ellen White.
---leej on 1/26/11


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\\The Catholics say the Lords day is Sunday and thats where the change came about.\\

So do Orthodox, all the Apostolic Eastern Churches including those that had NOTHING to do with Rome, and almost all Protestants except for SDA and their offshoots.

Question: WHEN did Catholics first say the Lord's Day is Sunday? And WHERE?

Bet you can't answer those questions.
---Cluny on 1/27/11


//Well, jerry, I see you are admitting that the Fourth Commandment, as originally given, is NOT about worship, but rest from labor.

Now that you've finally answered my first question, can you please answer my others?
---Cluny on 1/26/11 //

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall all flesh come to WORSHIP before me, saith the LORD.

No, it's your turn to answer a question.

By what authority do you call Sunday the Lord's Day?
---jerry6593 on 1/27/11


No one has the authority to change any of the laws that the Lord gave us. The Catholics say the Lords day is Sunday and thats where the change came about. If man can change that one commandment, why not change "Thou shalt not kill" or "Thou shalt not honor thy father and thy mother"? You can't change the Bible to suit yourself.
---Lisa on 1/26/11


\\If only the lawless types would read the Fourth Connandment (Exo 20:8-11), they would find that it commands "Six days shalt thou labor." How, pray tell, can one labor and rest at the same time? \\

Well, jerry, I see you are admitting that the Fourth Commandment, as originally given, is NOT about worship, but rest from labor.

Now that you've finally answered my first question, can you please answer my others?
---Cluny on 1/26/11


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\\Salvation with a question, therefore I haveta admit that concerns me a bit for your soul. I could be wrong, but personally, I feel that a genuine, born-again believer in Christ would have answered a big absolutely-YES to that question.\\

What you and I "feel" may not be what's close to the truth.

Protestant piety and buzz words are not part of Orthodoxy.
---Cluny on 1/26/11


If one is into prayer, reading of the word of God as well as worshipping with others, and there is no conviction of His Spirit regarding the observance of the OT sabbath, then Adventists have a problem with the Holy Spirit.

Scripture is all too clear that Christians need not observe any day as holy, howbeit, like Calvin' view the gathering together of His church is essential.

Poor Adventists when will they ever get out of bondage of Judaism into the freedom offered to those who would follow Jesus who fulfilled the laws that were but a shadow of the good things to come?
---leej on 1/26/11


Now to come back to the question The first day of the week (sunday) is celebrated by all Christians (except those who celebrate saterday of course) because that is the day of Christ's ressurection. sunday early in the morning. that is why christians celebrate sun, and not saterday. to me it is only another day, as say we all need to worship God dailly wherever we are whatever we do. on the other hand, if there is not a specific day, to worship then christianity would probably water down very quickly.
---andy3996 on 1/26/11


Now to come back to the question The first day of the week (sunday) is celebrated by all Christians (except those who celebrate saterday of course) because that is the day of Christ's ressurection. sunday early in the morning. that is why christians celebrate sunda, and not saterday. to me it is only another day, as say we all need to worship God dailly wherever we are whatever we do. on the other hand, if there is not a specific day, to worship then christianity would probably water down very quickly. to attach the sungod to this celebration is shortsited, since saterday was the day of celebrating all gods in roman religion, so it would have been more acceptable to worship Jesus (another god) on saterday then sunday.
---andy3996 on 1/26/11


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Cluny,I'm saddened by your post. I appreciate all the knowledge you obviously have in that brain of yours. You're way over my head most all the time.I rarely understand the details of your posts. However, I did catch the fact that you answered the question of your Salvation with a question, therefore I haveta admit that concerns me a bit for your soul. I could be wrong, but personally, I feel that a genuine, born-again believer in Christ would have answered a big absolutely-YES to that question. Please don,t be offended by my talking with you about this, I just felt I needed to share how I felt concern for you.
---Reba on 1/26/11


Always On: You bring up a good point:

"We cannot rest every day or we wouldn't eat."

If only the lawless types would read the Fourth Connandment (Exo 20:8-11), they would find that it commands "Six days shalt thou labor." How, pray tell, can one labor and rest at the same time? [Sorry Cluny, but the keeping of every day holy also violates the Commandment.]
---jerry6593 on 1/26/11


Reba and others:

If you want to see a good sampling of Orthodox prayers and hymnography (by no means are these all--the corpus runs into over 20 big volumes), look up Archimandrite Ephrem.

I think his last name is Lahish, though I'm not positive.

Alas, rules here forbid my giving the URL directly.
---Cluny on 1/25/11


\\The answers to all your questions are found in the Fourth Commandment (not suggestion, not recommendation, not good idea - COMMANDMENT), written by God with His own finger in stone, and recorded in Exo 20:8-11. Doesn't the Eastern Orthodox Church teach the keeping of the Ten Commandments?
---jerry6593 on 1/25/11\\

In other words, you're not going to answer my questions.
---Cluny on 1/25/11


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Always //I wish these debates would cease, however. Let those who want to observe, observe...and those who do not, don't. There's more work to be done besides arguing about this.


AMEN! If Jerry & Francis would get off the donkey, the rest of us may be able do so.
---leej on 1/25/11


Calvin who had the highest regard for the law has this to say about the Sabbath (II.2.28).

[The Sabbath being abrogated, there is still room among us, first to assemble on the stated days for the hearing of the word, the breaking of the mystical bread, and public prayer: and secondly, to give our servants and labourers relaxation from labour. It cannot be doubted that the Lord provided us for both in the commandment of the Sabbath.]

abrogated: to do away with something: to end an agreement or contract formally and publicly (formal)

So we can believe that the Sabbath was not changed, but abrogated provided of course, we accept what the Spirit of God was teaching through John Calvin.
---leej on 1/25/11


Haven't read all of the replies since I'm not keen on debating this. However, I see Cluny's question of which day we can designate UNholy. For me, Cluny, (a non-SDA who was once against it, but now rests on the sabbath and I'm perfectly fine if you don't, lol), holy means set apart, as in separate. In this context, it means set apart as a day of rest. We cannot rest every day or we wouldn't eat. Father is worthy of worship 24/7 and resting on the sabbath is, for me, simply another act of worship via obedience.

I wish these debates would cease, however. Let those who want to observe, observe...and those who do not, don't. There's more work to be done besides arguing about this.
---AlwaysOn on 1/25/11


Mima: So, you believe that Paul, being a mere man, has the authority to overrule God's own handwritten Commandment? Wouldn't that make him a god?
---jerry6593 on 1/25/11


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Clueless Cluny: "I'm going to ask you the same questions..."

The answers to all your questions are found in the Fourth Commandment (not suggestion, not recommendation, not good idea - COMMANDMENT), written by God with His own finger in stone, and recorded in Exo 20:8-11. Doesn't the Eastern Orthodox Church teach the keeping of the Ten Commandments?
---jerry6593 on 1/25/11


Paul is usually given as the singular authority for the change in the Lord's Day, yet he teaches in the New Testament (NT) that:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Is not Exo 20:8-11 a part of the "all scripture" to which Paul was referring? Further, The NT records that Paul customarily kept the Sabbath Day - not Sunday - as holy. Wouldn't Paul's changing of the Lord's Day make him an hypocrite?
---jerry6593 on 1/25/11


cluny
Between reading some things from web - sites then reading some what you may say is, maybe right or maybe wrong both ways also.
---Lawrence on 1/25/11


\\Does your Orthodox faith accept Christ as the Messiah?\\

Who do you think started teaching this first?

\\ Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour?\\

Where does the Bible use this formula?
---Cluny on 1/25/11


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Thanks for sharing that Cluny. I have one more question I'd like to ask you. Feel free to not answer of you feel it's too personal, you may have already answered this & I have failed to read it. Does your Orthodox faith accept Christ as the Messiah? Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour?
---Reba on 1/24/11


\\ I'm curious about something though, if you don't mind sharing, do you have a House Of God that you go to once or more a week, to worship with other Brother's & Sister's? \\

The Orthodox tradition is daily services at least twice a day.

However in the USA, alas, such a full schedule is done only in monasteries.

I join in offering as many of these prayers and hymns daily at home according to my ability.
---Cluny on 1/24/11


ginger //We are in Christ. That should be celebrated everyday. Not just on saturday or sunday.

But the argument with Sabbaterians is whether or not the day of worship has to be Saturday as commanded in the 4th Commandment, or whether the principle of rest one day out of 7, is all that is required. In other words, the spirit behind the Commandments, some of which Christ extended upon.

To the Sabbaterians, the ten commandments are the main focus of the gospel whereas for the rest of us, it is Jesus our Savior who redeemed us from the law (Gal. 4:4f)
---leej on 1/24/11


What does Col.2:16 say.
---JIM on 1/24/11


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\\ONE WORD...CONSTANTINE!!!!
---John on 1/23/1\\

Neither Constantine nor "the pope" (which is never specified) "changed the sabbath to Sunday."

Sunday has NEVER been the Sabbath.

However, Christians were assembling to worship at the Eucharist on Sunday before there was either, as the Apology of St. Justin Martyr describes.
---Cluny on 1/24/11


I know one thing
When Jesus hung on the Cross
He became our Sabbath
I worship & rest in Him everyday
The days mean nothing to me when it comes to Our Sabbath.
Katie
---Katie on 1/24/11


Cluny, I agree with what you're saying, that we are to worship God every day of the week, not just one. THAT'S EXTREMELY TRUE! I'm curious about something though, if you don't mind sharing, do you have a House Of God that you go to once or more a week, to worship with other Brother's & Sister's? Hebrews 10:25
---Reba on 1/24/11


I thought that Paul said by the Holy Spirit that we are neither jew nor gentile bond nor free?
What does that mean?
I believe it means we are to worship God all the time. In and out of season. Through good and bad.
We are in Christ. That should be celebrated everyday. Not just on saturday or sunday.
So, I agree with Cluny. When are we not supposed to be holy? Never. We are to be holy everyday 24/7, 365 a year.
---ginger on 1/23/11


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ONE WORD...CONSTANTINE!!!!
---John on 1/23/11


\\Jerry, I believe it was Constantine who , being anti-Semitic , chose Sunday as he was the sun(Sol) Emperor!\\

You believe wrong.

\\Allegedly converted on his death bed!Imposing penalties for disobedience!
---1st_cliff on 1/23/11\\

If you are trying to say he made Christianity the state religion, he didn't That didn't happen until Theodosius.

\\I read on a web - site. Pagan roman gentile sun worshipers in rome about the 2nd. century.
---Lawrence on 1/23/11\\

And everything you read on a web-site is always 100% true and accurate.

Right, Lawrence?
---Cluny on 1/23/11


I laugh every time when I hear that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday by the Roman Catholic church. But the underlying assumption is that all the early church was Roman Catholic. Old Ellen White never even heard of the Eastern Orthodox or other Apostolic church who never observed the Jewish Sabbath.

And we can see even from church historians - some even SDA - that the Gentile church no longer observed the Jewish Sabbath by the end of the 1st century.

From the Bible, we find nothing that even hints of a command for Christians to observe the Sabbath- an option observance according to Romans 14.

The Sabbath was NEVER changed but not mandated to Christians. Acts 15 must not in the SDA bible as they ignore it almost totally.
---leej on 1/23/11


jerry, I'm going to ask you the same questions I asked last time you stirred up this pot and you didn't answer:

1. What does "keep the sabbath" mean in the context in which it was originally given?

2. Why is "keeping the sabbath" limited to worship, as services were held TWICE DAILY in the Temple and later synagoges, as they still are today?

3. On which day may we NOT worship God?

4. Since Christ's coming, which day do we get to keep in an UNholy manner?
---Cluny on 1/23/11


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Here's your answer found on the Internet.

"Paul was accompanied by Sopater of Berea, Aristarchus and Secundus of Thessalonica, Gaius of Derbe, and Timothy, Tychicus and Trophimus of Asia when he set sail from Philippi and came to Troas where he met up with Luke and his companions. The travelers delayed their travels and remained at Troas for seven days, ----waiting until the first day of the following week so they could assemble with the church there on the Lord's Day to worship together (Acts 20:1-7).

For more information take this argument up with Paul
---mima on 1/23/11


As far as can tell, it has never been incumbent on non-Jews to observe Shabbat. And there seems not to be any precept in the New Testament making it binding on Gentiles.
---John.usa on 1/23/11


Jerry, I believe it was Constantine who , being anti-Semitic , chose Sunday as he was the sun(Sol) Emperor!
Allegedly converted on his death bed!Imposing penalties for disobedience!
---1st_cliff on 1/23/11


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